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00:00:00 - Attending the University of Kentucky as a student

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Partial Transcript: The following is an unrehearsed interview with Dr. Ellis F. Hartford, retired Professor of Education and former Dean of the Community College System, by Charles Hay, assistant archivist at the University of Kentucky Library for the Alumni/Faculty Oral History Project of the University of Kentucky Library.

Segment Synopsis: Hartford talks about coming to UK in 1927 as an undergraduate student after attending school in Bowling Green and working several jobs, including teaching high school.

Keywords: Bowling Green (Ky.); Dean Taylor; Football; Graduation; High school; Kentucky Wesleyan College; New Illinois System; Ohio County (Ky.); Oil refinery; Salary; Teaching; Teaching certificate

Subjects: College choice; College students--Employment.; Educators; Teachers--Kentucky; Teachers--Salaries, etc.; University of Kentucky

00:04:16 - Evolution debate

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Partial Transcript: Did you have any pre--impression of the student life here at the University of Kentucky?

Segment Synopsis: Hartford talks about the debate occurring while he was in high school over the teaching of evolution in schools. He talks about Dr. McVey's influence on academic freedom at the University of Kentucky in regards to this issue. He talks about the Scopes Trial, and William Jennings Bryan's involvement. He talks about how this debate affected the University of Kentucky.

Keywords: "In His Steps"; Academic freedom; Approval; Benefits; Controversy; Courage; Dayton (Tenn.); Dr. Frank McVey; Effects; Farm relief; Impressions; Methodists; President Mullins; Rash Bill; Science; Scopes Trial; Southern Baptist Theological Seminary; Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA)

Subjects: Bryan, William Jennings, 1860-1925.; College administrators; College presidents; College teachers--Political activity; Evolution.; Scopes, John Thomas; Universities and colleges--Alumni and alumnae.; University of Kentucky

00:08:55 - Student organizations / favorite professors

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Partial Transcript: What was student life like--

Segment Synopsis: Hartford talks about student life at the University of Kentucky, including fraternities and sororities, and political organizations on campus. He discusses some of his favorite professors while he was a student at the university, and talks about the courses they taught.

Keywords: College courses; Evolution; Favorite professors; Football; Fraternities; Fraternity politics; History; Lecturers; Lexington (Ky.); Liberal Club; Organizations; Social life; Student groups; Student life; William Funkhouser

Subjects: College environment; College students--Conduct of life.; College students--Social conditions; College teachers--Rating of.; Educators; Universities and colleges--Alumni and alumnae.; Universities and colleges--Faculty.

00:13:40 - Obtaining his master's degree

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Partial Transcript: And then you came and you got your masters here--

Segment Synopsis: Hartford talks about working towards his master's degree at the University of Kentucky, and commuting by bus and train to campus everyday. He talks about writing his dissertation on Henry Clay and obtaining his degree in 1934.

Keywords: Buses; Commuting; Dr. Thomas D. Clark; Henry Clay; Masters degrees; Newspapers; Teaching; Trains; Walking; Williamstown (Ky.)

Subjects: College students--Transportation; Universities and colleges--Graduate work.; Universities and colleges--Research

00:17:04 - Involvement with the Tennessee Valley Authority

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Partial Transcript: Now, then you, uh, I know you, you eventually got your doctorate education at Harvard and then you joined the University in the, uh, University School.

Segment Synopsis: Hartford talks about working at Williamstown and Louisville after earning his masters degree. He talks about his involvement in the field of social studies. He discusses the beginning of the TVA and being offered a position with the organization. He talks about their work creating an educational program and writing books.

Keywords: Chairman; Doctorate; Dr. Harcourt Morgan; Kentucky Council for the Social Studies; Non-renewable resources; TVA; University School; Williamstown (Ky.); Writing books; duPont Manual High School

Subjects: College graduates; Educators; Louisville (Ky.); Tennessee Valley Authority

00:26:28 - Transferring to Harvard University for his doctorate

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Partial Transcript: So, uh--(coughs)--this, writing this book for Morgan and which we finally published in Geor--University of Georgia Press...

Segment Synopsis: Hartford talks about why he chose to earn his doctorate at Harvard instead of the University of Kentucky. He talks about getting married and his wife having their first child as he was finishing the work for his doctorate.

Keywords: Children; Fellowship; Married; Social sciences; TVA; Transferring; WWII; World War II

Subjects: College choice; Harvard University.; Tennessee Valley Authority; World War, 1939-1945

00:34:09 - Beginning of World War II

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Partial Transcript: The war came. I remember the day--oh, it was Sunday.

Segment Synopsis: Hartford talks about hearing the news that Pearl Harbor had been attacked. He talks about the precautions that Harvard University took to ensure people's safety. He talks about the acceptance of his dissertation on educational policy for regional well-being, and about studying for his exams.

Keywords: Airplanes; Dean Spalding; Dissertations; Doctoral exam; Educational policy for regional well-being; Friends; National Defense Harvard Group; Radio; WWII; World War II

Subjects: Harvard University; Pearl Harbor (Hawaii), Attack on, 1941; Universities and colleges--Safety measures.; Universities and colleges--Security measures; World War, 1939-1945

00:42:13 - Working with the Tennessee Valley Authority during World War II

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Partial Transcript: Now I went back to TVA. Couldn't move d--back down there yet.

Segment Synopsis: Hartford talks about working for the TVA during the war making promotional posters for the war effort.

Keywords: Posters; Quotes; TVA; WWII; War effort

Subjects: Tennessee Valley Authority; World War, 1939-1945

00:45:57 - Working at the University School

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Partial Transcript: And then in August of 1942 out of the clear sky Dean Taylor wrote me a letter from here--

Segment Synopsis: Hartford talks about his release from the TVA to become the Director and Associate Professor of Secondary Education at the University School at UK. He talks about his job duties, his students, and the ROTC training given to his male students in preparation for the war.

Keywords: Associate Professor of Secondary Education; Honorable release; Interference; Responsibilities; Scrap metal; Students; Superintendent; Teaching; University School; WWII; World War II

Subjects: Education, Elementary.; Education, Secondary.; Educators; Elementary schools; High schools; Junior high schools; Teachers.; World War, 1939-1945

00:50:58 - World War II

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Partial Transcript: But I couldn't stand it. I just had to get in the service.

Segment Synopsis: Hartford talks about his decision to join the Navy during World War II. He talks about the tests he had to take and the commission he was given. He talks about how the university campus had changed when he arrived home after the war.

Keywords: Changes; Commissions; Lieutenants; Military service; Recruitment; School of military government; Students; Tests; United Nations

Subjects: College campuses.; College environment; College students--Attitudes.; College students--Conduct of life.; United States. Navy.; Universities and colleges--Admission; World War, 1939-1945

00:55:03 - Leaving the University School

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Partial Transcript: Meanwhile I didn't come back then to the University School.

Segment Synopsis: Hartford talks about his decision not to resume his position at the University School when he returned from WWII. He discusses a disagreement he had with parents at the University School over the basketball team. He talks about the controversy he caused by cutting the budget. He talks about discussing war experiences with some of his graduate students.

Keywords: Basketball team; Budgets; Family; Graduate students; Lyman Ginger; Parents; Talking to students; Travel; WWII; War experiences; World War II

Subjects: Education, Elementary.; Education, Secondary.; Educators; Elementary schools; High schools; Junior high schools; Teachers.; War and education.; World War, 1939-1945--Veterans.

01:00:22 - Limitations on salaries / black students at the University of Kentucky / McCarthyism

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Partial Transcript: Now, in, in the ‘40s I know there was a, uh, controversy, a provision in the state constitution was enforced that limited the salary--

Segment Synopsis: Hartford talks about the salary limitations put on university professors in Kentucky due to the state constitution. He talks about when African American students were first accepted at UK and the reactions of students and faculty. He talks about whether McCarthyism affected the university.

Keywords: Academic freedom; Acceptance; Athletics; Bureau of Instruction; Council on Public Higher Education; Court of Appeals; Dr. Herman Donovan; Kentucky State College; Kentucky State University; Kentucky state constitution; McCarthyism; Pressure; Professors; Salary limitations; Teaching

Subjects: African American college students--Social conditions; African American college students.; African Americans--Education--Kentucky--Lexington; College environment; College integration; College students, Black; College students--Social conditions; College teachers--Salaries, etc.; Discrimination in higher education; Minorities in higher education; Universities and colleges--Faculty.

01:07:12 - Minimum Foundation Program

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Partial Transcript: Alright, now I think we were just briefly talking about the, uh, your role you played in the creation of the Minimums Foundation Program.

Segment Synopsis: Hartford talks about his work with the Minimum Foundation Program on the Bureau of Instruction. He discusses their work writing accreditation standards and criteria for schools and teachers.

Keywords: Accreditation standards; Bureau of Instruction; Consultant; Criteria; Division of Teacher Education and Certification; Evaluation; Funding; Local leadership; Minimum Foundation Program; Rank; Regulations; Special education; Traveling

Subjects: Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Education--study and teaching; Educators; Frankfort (Ky.); Schools; Teachers; Teaching

01:15:57 - Council on Public Higher Education

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Partial Transcript: Well you worked another time. I know in 1962 you were appointed executive secretary of the Council on Public Higher Education.

Segment Synopsis: Hartford talks about his second leave of absence from UK to go to Frankfort in 1962 to work as the executive secretary of the Council on Public Higher Education. He discusses the creation of the Foundation Program for Public Higher Education which compared colleges in Kentucky to surrounding states to create education and funding standards.

Keywords: Advisory committees; Comparable institutions; Council on Public Higher Education; Executive secretary; Foundation Program for Public Higher Education; Policies; Presidents; Publicity; Representatives; Salaries; State colleges; Teacher education; Television

Subjects: College costs.; College graduates; College teachers--Leaves of absence; Education, Higher--Kentucky; Educational change--Kentucky; Educators; Frankfort (Ky.); Universities and colleges--Auditing; Universities and colleges--Evaluation; Universities and colleges--Ratings and rankings.

01:27:03 - State legislature involvement with the Council on Public Higher Education

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Partial Transcript: Did you ever work close with the state legislature?

Segment Synopsis: Hartford talks about his interaction with the state legislature during his time working for UK and for the Council on Public Higher Education.

Keywords: Budget Bureau; Censorship; Commissions; Higher Education Assistance Act; Legislative bills; Lobbying; Speaker of the House; State legislature

Subjects: College costs.; Education, Higher--Kentucky; Educational law and legislation--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government.; Legislators--Kentucky; Universities and colleges--Finance

01:31:18 - Continuing to teach / beginning of Dr. Oswald's presidency

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Partial Transcript: Now during this time you were not connected with the university--

Segment Synopsis: Hartford talks about maintaining his position at the University of Kentucky while also working in Frankfort. He talks about how his colleagues may have felt about his leave of absence. He talks about the beginning of Dr. Oswald's presidency at the University of Kentucky.

Keywords: Colleagues; Department chairman; Dr. John Oswald; Night classes

Subjects: College administrators; College presidents; College teachers, Part-time; College teachers--Leaves of absence; College teachers--Social conditions; College teaching.; Educators; Universities and colleges--Faculty.

01:35:45 - Creation of the community college system in Kentucky

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Partial Transcript: Sure is. Now you, uh, had a meeting, you say, in December he mentioned the community college.

Segment Synopsis: Hartford talks about the Community College Act which put all of the community colleges in Kentucky under the governance of the University of Kentucky. He talks about the conflict this caused with the other state universities. He talks about the creation of extension centers in various cities around Kentucky.

Keywords: Ashland (Ky.); Community College Act; Covington (Ky.); Dr. John Oswald; Extension centers; Fort Knox (Ky.); Henderson (Ky.); Hopkinsville (Ky.); Power; Prestonsburg (Ky.); Resentment

Subjects: Campus planning.; College administrators; College facilities--Planning.; Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Education, Higher--Kentucky; Educational change--Kentucky; Universities and colleges--Administration.; University of Kentucky; University of Kentucky. Community College System

01:41:47 - Job as Dean of Community Colleges

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Partial Transcript: I'd like to, if we can, just get into when you, you--

Segment Synopsis: Hartford talks about his appointment as Dean of Community Colleges. He discusses the opposition to the community college program. He talks about the committees that were formed to develop the curriculum for each program at the community colleges.

Keywords: Acceptance; Advisory boards; Associate degree programs; Blackey (Ky.); College credits; Committees; Curriculum; Dean of Community Colleges; Economic benefits; Educational purists; Extension centers; Functions; Grade point average; Opposition; Technical programs; University of Kentucky Medical Center

Subjects: College administrators; Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Education, Higher--Kentucky; Educational change--Kentucky; Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Curricula.; University of Kentucky. Community College System

01:52:47 - Political aspect of the creation of community colleges

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Partial Transcript: Uh, the creation of a, uh, community college, there were several under your, uh, leadership--

Segment Synopsis: Hartford begins explaining the involvement of politics in the creation of community colleges in Kentucky. He talks about how the locations for community colleges were chosen. He discusses how the colleges were funded partly by the community.

Keywords: Blackey (Ky.); Community colleges; Criteria; Dr. John Oswald; Elizabethtown (Ky.); Funding; Hopkinsville (Ky.); Land; Political pressure; Political process; Prestonsburg (Ky.); Professionals; Property; Somerset (Ky.)

Subjects: Campus planning.; College administrators; College campuses.; College costs.; College students--Transportation; Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Education, Higher--Kentucky; Educational change--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government.; Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Faculty.; Universities and colleges--Finance; Universities and colleges--Public relations; University of Kentucky. Community College System

02:01:06 - Student activities

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Partial Transcript: Well you had Paducah to come in while you--

Segment Synopsis: Hartford talks about how the community support of the Paducah Community College allowed them to have a competitive basketball team. He talks about his desire to provide other student activities and cultural opportunities at the community colleges.

Keywords: Basketball teams; Community support; Competition; Cultural institutions; Private junior colleges; Showcase program; Student activities; Taxes

Subjects: College costs.; College environment; College sports.; College students--Conduct of life.; College students--Social conditions; Paducah (Ky.); Universities and colleges--Finance; Universities and colleges--Public relations

02:05:13 - More on the political aspects of the creation of community colleges

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Partial Transcript: Can I ask you a question about--

Segment Synopsis: Hartford talks more about the process of deciding where to build a new community college in northern Kentucky. He talks about the committees that were formed to make the decision and discusses Governor Combs' and Governor Breathitt's involvement.

Keywords: Blackey (Ky.); Board of trustees; Committees; Community colleges; Criteria; Dr. John Oswald; Elizabethtown (Ky.); Graveyards; Hopkinsville (Ky.); Northern Kentucky; Prestonsburg (Ky.); Somerset (Ky.); Whitesburg (Ky.)

Subjects: Breathitt, Edward T., 1924-; Campus planning.; College administrators; College campuses.; College students--Transportation; Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Education, Higher--Kentucky; Educational change--Kentucky; Hazard (Ky.); Kentucky--Politics and government.; Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Faculty.; Universities and colleges--Public relations; University of Kentucky. Community College System

02:12:47 - Maysville Community College

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Partial Transcript: Well, uh, come--so then we made these feasibility studies then.

Segment Synopsis: Hartford talks about the creation of the Maysville Community College and why that location was chosen for a school. He talks about the agreement he tried to create with Ohio to allow students near state borders to attend community college in another state.
[Brief interruption in tape occurs during this segment.]

Keywords: Admission applications; Bridges; Feasibility studies; Jefferson (Ky.); Madisonville (Ky.); Ohio; Political aspects; Reciprocal agreements

Subjects: Campus planning.; College administrators; College campuses.; College students--Transportation; Education, Higher--Kentucky; Educational change--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government.; Maysville (Ky.); Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Admission; Universities and colleges--Public relations; University of Kentucky. Community College System

02:21:39 - Effectiveness of the community college system

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Partial Transcript: On a whole do you think, uh, the community colleges have achieved what you originally foresaw in them?

Segment Synopsis: Hartford talks about whether the community college system has achieved its goals. He talks about specific programs including forestry, mining technology, and woodworking.

Keywords: Achievement; Associate degrees; Forest and wood technicians; Madisonville (Ky.); Mining technology program; Progress; RCA; Strip mining; Woodworking

Subjects: Coal mines and mining; Education, Higher--Kentucky; Universities and colleges--Curricula.; Universities and colleges--Departments; University of Kentucky. Community College System

02:26:06 - Research / professional organizations and committees

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Partial Transcript: Can I ask you some questions--

Segment Synopsis: Hartford discusses the claim that current tenure practices rely too heavily on research at the expense of teaching. He talks about AAUP and other higher education organizations. He talks about his involvement with faculty committees at the university.

Keywords: American Association of University Professors (AAUP); Disputes; Faculty committees; Policies; Professional; Promotions; University Senate

Subjects: College administrators; College teachers--Rating of.; College teachers--Tenure.; College teachers--Workload; College teaching.; Educators; Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Faculty.; Universities and colleges--Research

02:33:56 - Outside pressure on the university / college sports

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Partial Transcript: I remember something--I'm going to talk about something now that happened years ago.

Segment Synopsis: Hartford talks about his beliefs concerning how government and other organizations, including universities, should be run. He discusses the claim that the university was pressured from outside forces to put more emphasis on sports than academics, and talks about the "professionalization of college athletics." He talks about his experience with sports at Harvard University, and talks about the importance of funding a variety of sports.

Keywords: Athletic programs; Athletics; Balance; Civics; Commonwealth Stadium; Emphasis; Government; Graduation; Harvard University; Memorial Coliseum; Outside pressure; Preferential treatment; Public funds; Sports programs; Variety; Yale University

Subjects: College administrators; College athletes; College sports.; College students--Conduct of life.; College students--Social conditions; Universities and colleges--Administration.

02:44:33 - University of Kentucky Library

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Partial Transcript: Uh, how, uh, how has the, uh, library improved over the years since--

Segment Synopsis: Hartford talks about how the library at UK has improved over the years and why he continues to make use of its resources. He discusses the quality of the University Press. He talks more about athletics and competition between Kentucky schools.

Keywords: Competition; Divisive; Improvements; Library; Louisville (Ky.); Research; Rivalry; Support; University Press; University of Louisville; Varsity sports

Subjects: Academic libraries.; College publications; College sports.; Universities and colleges--Research

02:47:36 - Opinions of University of Kentucky administrators and programs

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Partial Transcript: Uh, when you attended professional meetings what was the general reputation, academic reputation of University of Kentucky in your area and general and generally rep--reputation of the university?

Segment Synopsis: Hartford talks about his opinion that the university's reputation improved during the presidency of Dr. Oswald. He discusses his opinions on college deans, and the lack of support for mining and forestry departments at the university.

Keywords: Academic deans; Academics; College of Mining and Engineering; Discrediting; Dispossessed; Distinction; Dr. John Oswald; Energy crisis; Forestry department; Functionaries; Improvements; Land; Reputations; Rotating chairmanship; Timber

Subjects: College administrators--Rating of; College majors; College presidents; Universities and colleges--Curricula.; Universities and colleges--Departments; Universities and colleges--Evaluation; Universities and colleges--Faculty.; University of Kentucky

02:54:38 - Changes in college students' attitudes

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Partial Transcript: Could I ask you a question or--

Segment Synopsis: Hartford discusses how students have changed since he began teaching at the university. He talks about students' political involvement, including the protest on campus in 1970 after the Kent State shootings. He talks about how the relationships between students and professors have changed over the years.

Keywords: Academic issues; Fires; National changes; Openness; Personal relationships; Professors; Riots; Social change; Social issues; Student leadership; Unrest

Subjects: Campus violence; College environment; College students--Attitudes.; College students--Conduct of life.; College students--Political activity.; College students--Social conditions; Kent State Shootings, Kent, Ohio, 1970; Universities and colleges--Faculty.

02:59:51 - Former students

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Partial Transcript: How about some of your former students? Have any of them become very very successful in educational area or other areas?

Segment Synopsis: Hartford discusses some of his former students and their careers.

Keywords: Contact; Dissertations; Doctoral students; Professors; Success; Vietnam

Subjects: College graduates; College students--Employment.; College teachers.; Educators; Universities and colleges--Faculty.

03:07:38 - Regrets

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Partial Transcript: Well I tell you what, maybe we can wrap this up if there--

Segment Synopsis: Hartford talks about his regret that he did not take any of the jobs he was offered in New England. He talks about why he did not get a job at Morehead State University. He and the interviewer discuss donating his papers to the University Archives. The interview is concluded.

Keywords: Dean Taylor; Donating papers; Educational history; Files; Morehead State University; New Hampshire; Notes; Possessive; President of Colleges; Regrets; University archives; University of Maine; Vermont; WWII; Wife

Subjects: College administrators; College teachers--Job satisfaction; Educators; United States. Navy.; Universities and colleges--Faculty.; World War, 1939-1945