Interview with Martin M. White, February 5, 1979

Partial Transcript: The following is an unrehearsed interview with Dr. M. M. White for the Alumni/Faculty Oral History Project of the University of Kentucky Libraries.

Segment Synopsis: Dr. Martin M. White is introduced. He talks about the various schools he attended throughout his college education. He talks about why he chose to work at the University of Kentucky. He mentions the positions he held at the university and his responsibilities.

Keywords: Assistant professors; Associate professors; Biological sciences; Dean of Arts and Sciences; Dr. Frank McVey; Dr. J. B. Miner; Dr. James B. Miner; Eston Jackson Asher; Full professors; Funding; Graduate assistants; Head of department; Impressions; Job offers; Laboratory; Personnel director; PhD; Promotions; Psychology department; Teas; University of Chicago; University of Oklahoma; University of Texas

Subjects: College students--Attitudes.; College teachers--Job satisfaction; College teachers--Salaries, etc.; College teachers--Selection and appointment.; College teachers--Tenure.; College teachers--Workload; College teaching.; Educators; Universities and colleges--Faculty.

Partial Transcript: You mentioned, uh, Dr. McVey who was president at the university when you first came.

Segment Synopsis: White gives his impressions of Frank McVey and discusses his strengths and weaknesses as president of the university. He talks about McVey's policy of not allowing faculty to be involved in politics. He discusses how McVey's wife, Frances Jewell, assisted McVey in running the university.

Keywords: Abilities; Characteristics; Conflicts; Dean James Graham; Deans; Decisions; Dr. Amry Vandenbosch; Dr. Frank McVey; Effectiveness; Funding; Impressions; Lester "Pat" O'Bannon; Mary Frances Jewell McVey; Maxwell Place; Personality; Policies; Political science department; Politicians; Politics; Relationships; Research Club; State legislature; Working

Subjects: College administrators--Rating of; College environment; College presidents; College presidents' spouses; College presidents--Dwellings; College teachers--Social conditions; Educators; Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Faculty.

Partial Transcript: Could you tell me a little more about the Research Club?

Segment Synopsis: White talks about his involvement in the Research Club at the University of Kentucky. He says the club members wrote articles to be published in scholarly journals.

Keywords: Dr. Frank McVey; Grant Knight; Horace Allen; Jackets; Meetings; Membership; Publishing; Research Club; William D. Valleau

Subjects: College administrators; College presidents; College publications; College teachers--Workload; Educators; Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Faculty.; Universities and colleges--Research

Partial Transcript: In the period just before the Depression and even the first years of the Depression there was a considerable expansion at the university, at least a physical expansion.

Segment Synopsis: White talks about the effects of the Great Depression on the university, including the pay cuts the faculty took, as well as the two months that the faculty did not receive their pay. He talks about the faculty's reactions to McVey's decisions concerning the budget. He talks about how the students survived the Depression.

Keywords: Apartments; Changes; Charge accounts; Community support; Criticism; Dean Paul P. Boyd; Deans; Dr. Frank McVey; Dr. Herman Donovan; Dr. J. B. Miner; Dr. James B. Miner; Eastern Kentucky University; Enrollment; Expansion; Expenses; Faculty meetings; Fundraising; Great Depression; Groceries; H. H. Downing; Head of department; Leaving; Lexington community; Loyalty; Market Street; New library; Newsletters; Professions; Quality; Rent; Salary cuts; Salary reductions; Teas; Unity

Subjects: College administrators--Rating of; College buildings.; College campuses.; College facilities.; College presidents; College students--Attitudes.; College students--Economic conditions; College students--Employment.; College students--Social conditions; College teachers--Job satisfaction; College teachers--Salaries, etc.; College teachers--Social conditions; Depressions--1929--Kentucky; Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Finance

Partial Transcript: Between the time that, uh, Dr. McVey was president and Dr. Donovan came from Eastern to be president, Thomas Poe Cooper served as an acting president in an, in an interim position.

Segment Synopsis: White gives his impressions of Thomas Poe Cooper and discusses his strengths and weaknesses as interim president of the university. He compares Cooper to former president Frank McVey. He talks about Cooper's power at the university and the policies he implemented. He discusses the transition to a more liberal arts style of education at the university.

Keywords: Acting president; Agriculture department; Authority; College of Agriculture; Dean Paul P. Boyd; Dean Thomas Cooper; Dr. Frank McVey; Freshman orientation leaders; Liberal arts institutions; Opposition; Personality; Personnel director; PhD; Power; Research Club; Sigma Psi; Time clocks

Subjects: College administrators--Rating of; College administrators--Selection and appointment.; College discipline; College environment; College presidents; College teachers--Social conditions; Educators; Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Faculty.

Partial Transcript: Dr. Donovan was named president in '41 and as you mentioned earlier he had been president at Eastern--

Segment Synopsis: White gives his impressions of Herman Donovan and discusses his strengths and weaknesses as president of the university. He compares Donovan to former president Frank McVey. He gives an illustration of Donovan's character by telling a story about Donovan standing up to political pressure from Governor Clements. He talks about an incident in which he tried to advise Donovan about a controversial column written in the student newspaper.

Keywords: "Kernel Kutie"; Chemistry building; Controversy; Dean Sarah Holmes; Decisions; Dr. Frank McVey; Dr. Herman Donovan; Eastern Kentucky University; Faculty Senate; Firing; Governor Earle C. Clements; Kentucky Kernel newspaper; Opinions; Phi Beta Kappa; Political pressure; Reactions; Relationships; Rules; Speeches; Stature; Success; Threats

Subjects: College administrators--Rating of; College administrators--Selection and appointment.; College discipline; College environment; College presidents; College student newspapers and periodicals; College teachers--Social conditions; Educators; Journalism, College; Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Faculty.

Partial Transcript: In 1941, we discussed a little bit, you were named, uh, I think your title was Acting Personnel Director--

Segment Synopsis: White discusses his career path from acting personnel director to assistant dean to head of the psychology department. He talks about his responsibilities as head of the department. He talks about some of the activities and experiments conducted by the psychology department, and discusses the shift in the field of psychology from biological aspects to social psychology.

Keywords: Acting personnel director; Assistant deans; Biological sciences; Budgets; Changes; Child guidance clinics; Curriculum; Dean Paul P. Boyd; Doctoral students; Dr. Harry Best; Dr. J. B. Miner; Dr. James B. Miner; Duties; Eston Jackson Asher; Experimental groups; Head of department; Interviews; Narcotics Farm; Policies; Probationary students; Psychological exams; Psychological testing; Psychology department; Responsibilities; Social psychology

Subjects: College administrators--Selection and appointment.; College department heads; College environment; College teachers--Workload; Educators; Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Departments; Universities and colleges--Faculty.; Universities and colleges--Research; University of Kentucky. Department of Psychology

Partial Transcript: First thing I would like to do is correct two errors from last week.

Segment Synopsis: White talks about receiving the Outstanding Teacher Award and how the award was created. He talks about the increasing emphasis on research and publication over teaching. He talks about changes in how people received promotions.

Keywords: Advanced degrees; Changes; Court cases; Dean Thomas Cooper; Dean William Seay; Distinguished professorship; Dr. J. B. Miner; Dr. James B. Miner; Freshman orientation leaders; Full professors; Grant Knight; Interpretation; Lectures; Outstanding Teacher Award; Patterson Literary Society; Patterson School of Diplomacy; Pressure; Promotions; Psychologists; Psychology department; Publication; Publishing; Rank; Surprises; Trust funds; Wills

Subjects: College administrators; College environment; College publications; College teachers--Rating of.; College teachers--Salaries, etc.; College teachers--Social conditions; College teachers--Tenure.; College teachers--Workload; College teaching.; Educational change--Kentucky; Educators; Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Faculty.; Universities and colleges--Research

Partial Transcript: You know, the reaction to the impending war in Europe during the late '30s and early '40s varied a--quite a bit from campus to campus across the country.

Segment Synopsis: White talks about reactions from university administration, the Lexington community, and the military when a group of students declared themselves communists during the buildup to World War II.

Keywords: Boycotts; Communists; Convocation; Dr. Frank McVey; Impending war; Investigations; Lexington community; Military science; Pacifism; Pacifists; Reactions; Reserve Officers' Training Corps (ROTC); Reserve officers; United States Army; Veterans of Future Wars; World War II

Subjects: College administrators; College discipline; College environment; College presidents; College students--Attitudes.; College students--Conduct of life.; College students--Political activity.; College students--Social conditions; Student protesters; Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Faculty.; World War, 1939-1945

Partial Transcript: W--I wanted to get into a little bit about when you were named Dean of Arts and Sciences.

Segment Synopsis: White talks about being appointed as Dean of the College of Arts and Sciences and his transition into the position. He talks about how the college environment changed when student veterans returned from World War II. He talks about his relationships with former dean Paul Boyd and Paul Anderson.

Keywords: Advanced degrees; Dean F. Paul Anderson; Dean Paul P. Boyd; Dean of Arts and Sciences; Dr. Herman Donovan; Funding; Head of department; Policies; Quality; Relationships; Transitions; Veterans; Votes

Subjects: College administrators--Selection and appointment.; College environment; College presidents; College students--Attitudes.; College teachers--Rating of.; College teachers--Workload; College teaching.; Educators; Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Finance; Universities and colleges--Ratings and rankings.; University of Kentucky. College of Arts and Sciences

Partial Transcript: In, uh, President Donovan's book he wrote about the university, uh, "Keeping the University Free And Growing", he said that, quote, "One of the most serious problems I have had to face has been to keep the university free."

Segment Synopsis: White discusses the outside pressures which threatened academic freedom at the university. He talks more about President Donovan's responses to political pressure. He describes an incident in which student veterans claimed they were being discriminated against. He talks about the effects of McCarthyism on the university.

Keywords: Academic freedom; Chemistry building; Communism; Communists; Dean of Men; Discrimination; Dr. Herman Donovan; Governors; Individual freedom; McCarthyism; Outside pressure; Political pressure; Support; Tuition; Veterans

Subjects: College administrators--Rating of; College administrators--Selection and appointment.; College environment; College presidents; College students--Attitudes.; College teachers--Political activity; College teachers--Social conditions; Educators; Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Faculty.

Partial Transcript: Another problem that arises at--in a university and President Donovan again addressed himself to this issue.

Segment Synopsis: White talks about the priorities of the university, administration, and public regarding academics and athletics at the university. He talks about his relationship with Adolph Rupp, who once taught classes at the university. He talks about Thomas Poe Cooper's power at the university.

Keywords: Academics; Adolph Rupp; Authority; Centre College; Compromises; Cooperstown; Dean Thomas Cooper; Dr. Herman Donovan; Emphasis; Fine Arts Building; Funding; Memorial Coliseum; Nominations; Power; Priorities; Purposes; Relationships; Role of athletics; State legislature; State universities

Subjects: College administrators--Rating of; College environment; College facilities--Planning.; College presidents; College sports--Coaching; College sports--Economic aspects--United States.; College teachers--Salaries, etc.; College teachers--Social conditions; College teaching.; Educators; Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Faculty.; Universities and colleges--Finance

Partial Transcript: O--one thing that we haven't talked about and, um, we're getting to the point in time where it became an issue at UK of sorts--[audio interruption]--integration of, of the university.

Segment Synopsis: White discusses the integration of the University of Kentucky. He talks about Lyman Johnson, the first African American accepted at UK. He talks about a meeting at which waiters would not serve due to the presence of several African American academics. He talks about being accused of discrimination by some of his students and discusses his own beliefs on race relations. He talks about the resistance to integration of the UK basketball team. He discusses why UK does not have many Black students.

Keywords: Adolph Rupp; Athletic teams; Bear Bryant; Bias; Black professors; Community colleges; Day Law; Dean of Arts and Sciences; Dr. Herman Donovan; Dunbar High School; Eastern Kentucky; Enrollment; Frank Peterson; Grades; Harry Caudill; Irwin Sanders; Kentucky State University; Leo Chamberlain; Lyman T. Johnson; Meetings; Prejudice; Publishing; Reactions; Recruiting; Regional universities; Resistance; Southeastern Conference (SEC); Trouble; Tub-thumping; Waiters

Subjects: African American college students--Social conditions; African American college students.; African Americans--Education--Kentucky--Lexington; African Americans--Legal status, laws, etc.; College administrators; College environment; College integration; College presidents; College sports--Coaching; College sports.; College students, Black; College students--Attitudes.; College students--Conduct of life.; College students--Social conditions; College teachers, Black; College teachers--Social conditions; Discrimination in higher education; Educators; Kentucky Wildcats (Basketball team); Lexington (Ky.)--Race relations.; Minorities in higher education; Race relations--Kentucky--Lexington; Racism; Segregation in education--Kentucky; United States--Race relations.; Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Faculty.

Partial Transcript: During our last session, Dean White, we, uh, talked about, uh, a lot of the Donovan administration and up through the, uh, latter part of the 1940s.

Segment Synopsis: White talks about the salary limitations enforced on the faculty of UK. He talks about how he, as Dean of Arts and Sciences, continued to recruit new faculty despite the low salaries available. He talks about how the regional universities and community colleges in the state affected funding for UK and discusses why they were built.

Keywords: Changes; Charles I. Dawson; Community colleges; Deans; Dr. Amry Vandenbosch; Educational needs; Funding; Haggin Fund; Leaving; Legislation; New York Bank; Northern Kentucky University; Politics; Poor; Post-war; Recruiting; Regional universities; Retirement plans; Salary limitations; Salary supplementation; World War II

Subjects: College administrators; College teachers--Rating of.; College teachers--Salaries, etc.; College teachers--Selection and appointment.; College teachers--Social conditions; Educators; Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Faculty.; Universities and colleges--Finance

Partial Transcript: In 1956 Frank Dickey was named president of the university.

Segment Synopsis: White gives his impressions of Frank Dickey and discusses his strengths and weaknesses as president of the university. He compares Dickey to former president Herman Donovan. He talks about why Dickey was chosen and discusses the situation surrounding Dickey being chosen over Elvis Stahr. He talks about some of the decisions Dickey made and discusses his resignation.

Keywords: Acting deans; Candidates; Clifford Smith; Dean William Taylor; Dr. Frank Dickey; Dr. Herman Donovan; Dr. John Oswald; Elvis Stahr; Frank Peterson; Governor Happy Chandler; Opposition; Personality; Political influence; Politics; Recommendations; Relationship with students; Resignation; Speeches; Support; Teachers’ Insurance Annuity Association/College Retirement Equities Fund (T.I.A.A./C.R.E.F.)

Subjects: College administrators--Rating of; College administrators--Selection and appointment.; College environment; College presidents; College students--Social conditions; College teachers--Pensions; College teachers--Social conditions; Educators; Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Faculty.; University of Kentucky. College of Education

Partial Transcript: Mentioning Frank Peterson, uh, in March 1963 Peterson was suspended from the university for questionable financial dealings.

Segment Synopsis: White talks about the controversy surrounding Frank Peterson's suspension. He talks about professor Gladys Kammerer's claims of discrimination due to her criticism of the Chandler administration. He talks about UK's negotiations with the University of Louisville over the creation of the Chandler Medical Center. He talks about the changes that led to military science no longer being compulsory for male students at the university.

Keywords: Abolished; Board of trustees; Chandler Medical Center; Changes; Compulsory; Controversy; Criticism; Deans; Distinguished professorship; Dr. Frank Dickey; Dr. Herman Donovan; Expansion; Frank Peterson; Funding; Governor Bert T. Combs; Governor Happy Chandler; Judge Wheeler; Mandatory; Medical school; Military science; Opposition; Political issues; Politics; Pressure; Professor Gladys Kammerer; Property; Public issues; Raises; Requirements; Revision of Kentucky constitution; Social issues; Suspended; Suspensions; University of Louisville

Subjects: College administrators; College environment; College presidents; College students--Social conditions; College teachers--Political activity; College teachers--Salaries, etc.; College teachers--Social conditions; Educators; Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Faculty.; Universities and colleges--Finance; University of Kentucky. College of Arts and Sciences

Partial Transcript: During your tenure as Dean of the College of Arts and Sciences, what did you see as some of the major accomplishments and development of programs that, that you were able to bring about?

Segment Synopsis: White discusses some of the projects and changes he implemented during his time as Dean of the College of Arts and Sciences. He talks about changes in the fields of engineering, languages, chemistry, and psychology, among others. He talks about creating the Dean's List and assigning advisors to assist freshman and sophomore students. He talks about the facilities available for Art and Sciences classes.

Keywords: "Bromo" Selzer; Accomplishments; Achievements; Advisors; Chemical engineering; Chemistry department; Classrooms; Dean of Arts and Sciences; Dean's List; Deans; Drama department; Elmer Selzer; Enrollment; Foreign languages; Funkhouser Building; General education; Geological survey; Geologists; Grades; Growth; Kentucky Educational Television (KET); Mapping; Math department; Opposition; Physical education; Psychology department; Radio arts; Recreation department; School of music; Social work; WBKY; Whitehall Building

Subjects: Campus size; College administrators--Rating of; College environment; College facilities.; College students--Social conditions; College teachers--Social conditions; College teaching.; Educational change--Kentucky; Educators; Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Curricula.; Universities and colleges--Departments

Partial Transcript: I want to talk just a little bit in the remaining time we have left, uh--John Oswald became president in September of '63.

Segment Synopsis: White gives his impressions of John Oswald and discusses his strengths and weaknesses as president of the university. He discusses some of Oswald's controversial policies, including the rotation of heads of departments. He talks about why some department heads were rotated and why some were not, and discusses Oswald's relationships with certain faculty members. He talks about his replacement as Dean of Arts and Sciences, Paul Nagel. He briefly talks about students' reactions to Oswald's resignation. The interview concludes abruptly.

Keywords: "Flexibility"; Advice; Assistants; Centennial; Committees; Controversy; Dean Cecil Carpenter; Dean Doris Seward; Deans; Demonstrations; Dr. Douglas Schwartz; Dr. John Oswald; Dr. Morris Scherago; Dr. Thomas D. Clark; John Kuiper; Maxwell Place; Opposition; Outcry; Paul Nagel; Relationships; Replacements; Resignation; Rotating chairmanship; Tub-thumping; Voting

Subjects: College administrators--Rating of; College administrators--Selection and appointment.; College environment; College presidents; College presidents--Dwellings; College students--Attitudes.; College students--Political activity.; College teachers--Social conditions; Educators; Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Faculty.; University of Kentucky. College of Arts and Sciences