Partial Transcript: That's the thing is it's inconspicuous.
Segment Synopsis: Sue Ann Salmon talks about her activities during her time as a student at the University of Kentucky. She talks about working at the newspaper Blue Tail Fly.
Keywords: College campuses; Diplomatic protests; Journalism; Newspapers; Vietnam War, 1961-1975.
Subjects: Anti-war demonstrations.; College environment; College student newspapers and periodicals; College students--Conduct of life.; College students--Social conditions; Politics.; University of Kentucky
Partial Transcript: So you didn't--wh, when did you start UK?
Segment Synopsis: Salmon talks about what life was like on campus and the kinds of student movements that existed at the University of Kentucky. She mentions specific student organizations such as the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC).
Keywords: Anti-war demonstrations; Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (U.S.); Student government; Students for a Democratic Society (U.S.)
Subjects: College campuses; College environment; College students--Political activity.; College students--Social conditions; Politics.; Student movements--United States.; Student protesters
Partial Transcript: Somebody told me that at one point there was a, uh, like a regional or a national--
Segment Synopsis: Salmon talks about her perception of the student political movements on campus and the general public opinion of those movements at the time.
Keywords: Governor Happy Chandler; Kent State Shootings, Kent, Ohio, 1970.; Politics; Sociology; Students for a Democratic Society (U.S.)
Subjects: Anti-war demonstrations; College students--Political activity.; Demonstrations.; Diplomatic protests.; Student protesters; Vietnam War, 1961-1975.
Partial Transcript: I can just go over what happened that night if you'd like--
Segment Synopsis: Salmon tells the story of her involvement during the night the Buell Armory burned down. She first talks about her reaction to seeing the police and onlookers observing the event.
Keywords: Anxiety; College campuses; Emotions; Firearms; Fires; Gardens; Intimidation; Lexington (Ky.)
Subjects: Anti-war demonstrations.; Diplomatic protests.; Police.; Riot control.; Riots.; Vietnam War, 1961-1975.
Partial Transcript: And, uh--(coughs)--up there was a couple lines of, um, campus police and they were less intimidating than those guys down near the, uh--Euclid, by the Student Center.
Segment Synopsis: Salmon talks about getting caught up in the protest march, and how she felt observing everything go on around her. She talks about being arrested and accused of burning down the armory.
Keywords: Clothing and dress; College campuses; Drugs; Journalism; University of Kentucky
Subjects: Arson.; College environment; College students--Political activity.; Police.; Student protesters
Partial Transcript: There I was, with all these guys that were dressed up in police uniforms or fireman outfits, and, and, um, they had a, a woman police person, uh, search me.
Segment Synopsis: Salmon talks about what happened after she was arrested. She talks about being taken to the police station and questioned about the arson. She talks about her emotions in regard to the people who were questioning her.
Keywords: Father; Fingerprints; Judges; Lawyers; Newspapers; Parents; Politics
Subjects: Criminal investigation.; Firemen.; Police.; Questioning.
Partial Transcript: Anyway, uh, that was before Fryman questioned me.
Segment Synopsis: Salmon talks about her time in the holding cell while she was under investigation for arson. She also talks about the time leading up to her hearing, and seeing students on campus get hit by tear gas.
Keywords: Police charges; Reporters and reporting; Tear gas; Witnesses; Women
Subjects: Arson.; Campus violence; College campuses.; College students--Political activity.; College students.; Lawyers.; Police.; Student protesters; Universities and colleges--Safety measures.; Universities and colleges--Security measures
Partial Transcript: So, anyway I had my, uh, character wit, witnesses lined up and was all ready to go and I figured it'd be dismissed right away.
Segment Synopsis: Salmon talks about the hearing for her arson charges and how she prepared for it. She talks about getting character witnesses together, and how she was led to believe it would be dismissed for lack of evidence.
Keywords: Criminal charges; Newspapers; Resentment; Richard Nixon; University of Kentucky
Subjects: Evidence.; Lawyers.; Police charges.; Police.; Trials (Arson)
PETER: Okay. ----------(??) I guess, that's thing is it's inconspicuous.
PETER: You know, instead of this big tape recorder going hmmm.
SALMON: Right. Yeah.
PETER: Anyway, this is a interview with, uh, Sue Ann Salmon.Salmon?
PETER: Sa-, Salmon. Do you get that a lot?
SALMON: Well, Salmon is good. It's pronunciation.
PETER: Ah, okay. Well, great. Um, on December 1, 1978.Uh, the location is, um, uh, 116 ----------(??) Street, Lexington, Kentucky. Uh, and the topic is, uh, the, uh, campus upheavals in, uh, March of 1970, and specifically the burning of the ROTC building.
SALMON: May of 1970.
PETER: May of 1970, right. Um, what were you doing at00:01:00U.K. in the spring of, of 1970, spring semester?
SALMON: Well, I was a senior in journalism at U.K. Um,and I still had some more course work after that semester. So, it wasn't my final sem-, semester.
SALMON: Um, though I, I was taking, um, journalism and philosophy classes.
PETER: Were you working--
SALMON: --I think a writing class--
PETER: --working on the Kernel?
SALMON: Um, I had worked for the Kernel. But, uh, Ithink it was in the fall of, uh, '69, uh, I stopped, uh, well, actually in the spring of '69, I was the last 00:02:00time I worked with the Kernel. I, uh, some of us from the Kernel started another, uh, alternative newspaper, the Blue Tail Fly.
PETER: Um-hm, right.
SALMON: And, um, in the fall of '69, so I'd been workingwith that paper since it started, and, uh, was still working with it in the spring of '70.
PETER: Um-hm. I think someplace I, I read that, um, thereason it was started was because some people who were involved with the Kernel failed to get positions in the Kernel that they had wanted.
PETER: --and then, then apparently--
SALMON: --that's the--
PETER: --people walked out(??)--
SALMON: --well, um--
PETER: --or, and why(??).
SALMON: The, the group that had worked for the Kernel or with,with the Kernel, uh, at the time when I was there, uh, we had, uh, you know, ----------(??) different positions of responsibility. And, 00:03:00uh, the person who was the most responsible, um, and was coming back the next year, who, who had had the heaviest workload with the Kernel was Guy Mendes. And, uh, he was the managing editor of the Kernel. Um, and it was, I guess, our junior year; Guy and I were in the same class.
SALMON: And, uh, so it was, you know, it was logical thathe should be made the editor. Uh, but in our viewpoint, but, uh, this, the board of student publications felt differently, and they, uh, they chose the sports editor--
SALMON: --to be the editor, uh--
SALMON: --for political reasons, because Guy had been active in, uh, antiwar--
SALMON: --uh, sentiments in the Kernel. And, um, they just felt00:04:00the sports editor was more apolitical.
SALMON: Even though he hadn't--
SALMON: --worked as much with the Kernel.
PETER: I suppose you have to be objective, but when I lookback on the Kernel it seemed like it was, you know, that it was pretty political. There were a lot of editorials that were.
SALMON: Well, any newspaper's political.
PETER: Um-hm. Sure.
SALMON: You know, they may tell you differently--(laughs)--in journalism classes, but, uh,I mean, I think that, uh, that we were learning(??) because the war was going on, and, uh, you know, that was affected our lives so much, even though we were, we were not in Vietnam, by any means.
SALMON: I mean it really affected our lives. And, uh, therewas just no way that, uh, that we could divorce ourselves from 00:05:00that. And, uh, you know, unless we were going to be, um, pro-war.
SALMON: I mean, because that's the, that's the opposite of, uh, uh,I think what the newspaper was doing. Uh, and the Kernel was, it may act like it's apolitical because it never has any in-depth articles about anything, but it's certainly political because it, it promotes, um, greek ----------(??)--
SALMON: --and campus Christian groups, you know.
PETER: (both laugh) This is true, this is true.
SALMON: So, it, it's just political in a, in another way, away that I think goes more along the political lines of the university.
SALMON: Also, you know, and I know the university is a political,um, machine, because, uh, well, when I first came to U.K., uh, 00:06:00Oswald was the president, and he was booted out by the governor because he didn't like the fellow who was the head of the, um, college of education.
SALMON: Oswald thought the college of education had, uh, was too ingrownand, uh, not progressive enough. And, you know, it was, it's sort of like a state highway department or something. (laughs)
PETER: Well, what did you think of Oswald?
SALMON: Oh, I thought he was really good.
SALMON: Um, he attracted a lot of real dynamic teachers.
SALMON: And just sort of, um, brought along a sense of, um,oh, hope, I guess, for students, you know. And, uh, because good professors I think really make a difference, uh, at a big state university even. 00:07:00
PETER: And then he was, um, he was cut out when?Like I think it was '68, was it? [Nineteen] sixty-nine?
SALMON: Um, I guess it was '68.
SALMON: Or, well, let's see. Um, I guess it was, like,well, spring of '69 was the last time he was here, I guess.
PETER: Were you on the Kernel then?
SALMON: ----------(??) Um, yes.
PETER: Do you remember how the Kernel reacted to that ----------(??)?
PETER: I can see them maybe praising Oswald, but I, I waswondering if, uh, if the, if there was any, you know, kind of negativistic, you know, denouncing, uh, the governor for kicking him out, or some. Was it Oswald's decision to leave, or was he--
PETER: --really(??) fired?
SALMON: Gosh, it really hazy(??)--
SALMON: --in my mind.
SALMON: Uh, but he was, I think he was fired really.00:08:00
SALMON: Uh, by the board of trustees. Or else, you know,it was made so uncomfortable for him he had to leave.
SALMON: I, I don't know, it becomes a real fine distinction there.
SALMON: Quitting and fired.
PETER: So, you've been at, what, when did you start U.K.?
SALMON: In the fall--
SALMON: --of '66.
PETER: [Nineteen] sixty-six.
SALMON: Yeah. I, I really can't, I can't remember if Oswaldleft the spring of, I guess spring of '68.
SALMON: That must've been it. Yeah, because the next spring, orthe next year Kirwin was the president at U.K., and he was an acting president.
SALMON: Um-hm. And there was a demonstration in the spring of'69, um, what they call Mother May I revolution. 00:09:00
PETER: --somebody told me something, someone told me something about that.It was, uh, I'm not sure exactly how it went. It was, uh, kind of satiric, right? In that you had, they thought you had to ask the president, uh, "Mother, may I do this?"
SALMON: Yeah, it was--
PETER: --what was that--
SALMON: --it was because, oh, I can't remember if it was twoor four students at U.K. who were arrested for, uh, some kind of drug charge. And, uh, it's like, I think what it, what it was, uh, the university wouldn't let them come back to school because they presented a clear and present danger--(laughs)--to other students, uh, because they'd been arrested for drugs, you know. And it was, like, I guess they were afraid it would rub off on other students. Um, I think that may be completely wrong, but that's 00:10:00how I recall it was.
SALMON: And then it was, um, it was before they had beenconvicted of anything. They had been arrested on these drug charges, but before they had been convicted. So, uh, you know, it was unfair.
SALMON: And, uh, uh, the, there were some rallies, and, uh, sit-ins,and, uh, at the Student Center and also at, uh, at Maxwell Place.
SALMON: And, uh, but--
PETER: --did you take part in those?
SALMON: Uh, I was, I sat in at the Student Center, uh,for a while, I guess, overnight I stayed there. There were, we had speakers, and, uh, you know, it was just a, an 00:11:00act of protest these, what happened to these students. Um, but the, the whole thing was very polite. And I think that's why it was called Mother May I, because the administration was asked, you know, "Is it okay if we do this?" "Is it, you know, is it okay if we sit-in at the Student Center tonight?"
SALMON: Uh, you know, this and that, and I remember there wasa sit-in at Maxwell Place, I didn't, I wasn't in that, but someone told me that, uh, I don't know if it was a teacher or an administrator who but brought a whole bunch of hamburgers for all the students--(laughs)--in there, you know. It wasn't another student, but it was somebody like that.
SALMON: Brought them a lot of food.
PETER: Hm. Um, what was--this is a broad question I realize.00:12:00Yeah, I'm sorry. What was, what was campus life like at that time? I, I know you're working at KET. So I, I can't ask you to relate it to, to what it is presently. So, what were your general impressions of, of just life what it was like back then?
SALMON: In, uh--
PETER: --life on campus. Like what were the average concerns of,of the, uh, students?
SALMON: Well, they varied a whole lot.
SALMON: Um, I think, I think probably the thing that was on,uh, uh, I think sports, you know, was still a big thing back then. Lots of, probably if a poll were taken of students back then that would be the most pressing thing on their minds. And then second, uh, on the minds of probably the 00:13:00men was the war.
SALMON: I don't, um, but I don't know. It, U.K. isjust, it's a real perplexing, uh, campus situation for me, because, uh, you know, I know the student body reflects more or less the way, the temperament is in the whole state. And, uh, although, you know, I've always hung out with a small group of people, I guess, you know, I guess most students at a big university do that.
SALMON: So, um, you know, so my views reflected the people Iwas with.
SALMON: And so, I can only speak for myself really.
PETER: (laughs) I realize you're not an expert on campus life.
SALMON: Yeah, yeah, and I, I, you know, I wasn't anything, Iwas never the president of the university--
PETER: --oh well--
SALMON: --or the governor or anything.
PETER: Oh well, we'll scrap that question. (both laugh)00:14:00
SALMON: I ----------(??)
PETER: Do you remember the, the, the groups that, um, that were,were the protest groups? Generally, what, what, uh--
PETER: --any of them? For instance, I'm told there was anSDS chapter.
SALMON: Oh yeah. Yeah, I used to cover the SDSfor the Kernel.
SALMON: That was my, uh, beat. (laughs)
PETER: Um-hm. Right.
SALMON: My sophomore year, and, uh. But the SDS had, um,well, from what I could understand what was going on of it, with it, it grew from a, or changed from a, a sort of theor-, theoretical group, a group that just talked about ideas, and, 00:15:00uh, you know, uh, and sort of lifestyle oriented, you know, not--
SALMON: --um. And also they talked about issues, you know, theytalked about the war, and had, um, I think they sponsored a, a SNCC organizer, you know, Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee. Uh, I think they sponsored a, a Marxist scholar, uh, uh, whose name I can't remember. Uh.
PETER: Somebody told me that at one point there was a, uh,like a regional or a national--
SALMON: --yeah, they had a big convention here.
PETER: Yeah. Do you remember when, when that was, and?
SALMON: I think it was '67.
PETER: What went on there?
SALMON: I didn't go to it.
PETER: Didn't go.00:16:00
SALMON: No. But, uh, let's see. Um, SDS, anyway, they,they became, uh, they, they became more social-, sociologically oriented, uh, sociology graduate students became involved in it. And, uh, I, I quit going to meetings because I wasn't working with the Kernel anymore.
SALMON: But, uh, their meetings became more organized. And, uh, Iguess, well, I don't really know exactly what happened because, uh, I didn't keep going, but it changed a lot from my sophomore year to my junior year anyway. 00:17:00
SALMON: And then it sort of dissolved. (laughs) So, so,it wasn't, as I recall, there wasn't an SDS by 1970, uh, you know, in any real form.
PETER: Do you remember the, uh, Student Mobilization Committee?
SALMON: Um-hm. Yeah. Do I remember it?
SALMON: Yes. Uh, they, uh, sponsored lots of antiwar activities, uh,like, oh, speakers, and that sort of thing. There were regular meetings.
SALMON: Uh, but I wasn't a member of that either.
PETER: Um-hm. Hm. Uh, what, what percentage of students would00:18:00you say were, were "protestors"?
SALMON: (laughs) Well, protestors is a--in, in May of '70?
PETER: Okay, sure.
SALMON: (laughs) Uh, well, I'd say there were, there was, youknow, as far as the whole campus population goes, you know, it's about twenty thousand people. You know, it was, it wasn't nearly as many people as come to a ballgame. (laughs)
SALMON: As many students as go to a ballgame. Um, Idon't know. Maybe about as many as would go to a women's basketball game--(laughs)--a lady cats game. (both laugh)
PETER: Um-hm. Right, right.
SALMON: Uh, but even those, uh, but when I was, uh, at00:19:00U.K., my, I guess, my sophomore year, I remember seeing a panty raid. And, uh, and the crowd struck me about, you know, the same as people who'd go to a panty raid. I mean the same, uh, size as the group. And, and, you know, I figured the motives of lots of the people there were the same. Just, uh, you know, just there for the excitement and all. And, uh.
SALMON: I don't know. Uh, some, uh, do you want meto talk about that night, or some?
PETER: Yeah, yeah, okay. Uh, that, that was right after Cambodia--
PETER: --and, uh, and Kent State. You say, earlier--
SALMON: --that's, I, I think, when was Kent, when did the shootingshappen at Kent State?
PETER: Kent State was, uh, the fourth, May 4, which was Monday.
PETER: And then, uh, Tuesday was the burning.
PETER: There was a, uh, uh, a board of trustees meeting, uh,on the eighteenth floor of Patterson Office Tower, uh, Tuesday, I think, one o'clock. That was, do you remember anything about that?
PETER: -- ----------(??)--
SALMON: --that, was that the one where Happy Chandler grabbed somebody bythe hair?
PETER: Right, right, right. You heard about it later, I guess.
SALMON: Um, yeah. I wasn't there.
SALMON: I can't remember.
PETER: And then later that night, there was, uh, the rally that--
PETER: --started at the Student Center. Were you, were you involvedwith that at any point?
SALMON: Um, no. (laughs)
PETER: No. Right.
SALMON: Uh, let's see. I, I can't remember exactly if itwas like, seems it was finals week or something?
PETER: Um-hm. Yeah.
SALMON: And, uh, anyway, I lived, um, about a half-block from campuson Lexington Avenue, which is, um, exactly the spot where the new basketball dorm is.
PETER: Right, 346 was it?
SALMON: 341, I think.
PETER: Um-hm. I used to live on Lexington Avenue; I wastrying to find--
SALMON: --oh yeah--
PETER: --the other day(??). (Salmons laughs)
SALMON: The basketball dorm. (both laugh)
PETER: Right, right.
SALMON: Um, but yeah, they, they really should name it the SueAnn Salmon Memorial Dormitory. (both laugh)
PETER: I can go over tell them. Yeah, yeah. Okay,well. 00:22:00
SALMON: I, I can just go over what happened that night--
SALMON: --if you want me to.
PETER: Terrific. Tell your story. (laughs)
SALMON: Well, let's see. Um, seems like for a couple ofdays, uh, well, there had been another demonstration right after the invasion of Cambodia, a candlelight march, I think, uh, through campus. And, uh, I, I don't think I participated in it either. (laughs) But, um, I was probably studying for finals. I, it's real vague in my mind now. Uh, but, um, they were, because I lived just half a block from campus, and there was a big parking lot there on the corner of, um, uh, Lexington Avenue and Euclid, it was all filled with, with, um, state police 00:23:00cars, and also the parking lot behind, uh, uh, the Memorial Coliseum was filled with state police cars. A whole, there was a whole busload, in fact, of state policemen, a busload or two of state police that had come in. And it was real unnerving, you know, living just two doors up from all these police who had big guns. And, um, they, you know, were very intimidating, fascist--(laughs)--sorts of people. And, uh, so, my house also was, uh, well, facing Lexington Avenue, and on a block behind it was Harrison Avenue, and on the corner of Harrison and Euclid was the Air Force ROTC building. Um, well, I, I had had, um, my 00:24:00only encounter with the Air Force ROTC building had been, um, a philosophy of mind class that met there for a while, until we, uh, the class was changed to another building and I finally dropped it. But, uh, it met there a few times. So, that's the only time I'd ever been in the Air Force ROTC building. But, um, that evening in, uh, May 5, is that the day?
SALMON: (laughs) Uh, I had gone with one of my housemates,I lived in a house with, uh, oh, about four other people, one of my housemates and I had gone, uh, through the parking lot behind Memorial Coliseum, you know, through, walked through all these state 00:25:00police cars, and were pretty upset by it. Just this, uh, big powerful force right in front of our door. And we walked over to, uh, a little store, uh, near where Baskin Robbins is now, and, and it's, it was a liquor store. We bought a quart of ginger ale. And, uh--(laughs)--went over a couple of blocks to, um, Aylesford, I think it was, where a friend of ours lived and went up and visited him. And, um, actually a couple of friends lived there. We went up and visited them. And, uh, drank ginger ale. And, um, then we decided we'd go over to campus and to see what was going on. So, we didn't, uh, we didn't go over really 00:26:00to rant and rave or throw bricks in, at buildings or anything like that. We just wanted to see what was going on, which I imagine was the reason a lot of people there where they were. Uh, because well, when we went over, as we were walking over, uh, before all this, uh, there were just police everywhere. And, uh, also lots of citizens were parked in their cars along the curb, like people, you know how people park everywhere when there's a ballgame going on. Well, people had parked everywhere to see the students acting crazy. (both laugh) And, uh, and, and see the cops acting crazy, too. (laughs) And, uh, they just were sitting in their cars, you know, looking around. 00:27:00I heard that Louie Nunn was up at the administration building sitting in his car. And, uh, I guess he was sitting in his car. But, um, we walked from Aylesford down Euclid. Um, and at the corner of Euclid and Lexington Avenue, uh, I stopped and I told my three friends that I was going to run up to my house and put the ginger ale in the refrigerator. And, you know, I'd come right back and join them. And so, they waited there in the quarter, and there was a police van, uh, parked there on the corner, uh, by the coliseum. And, uh, there were some cops in it, you know. I didn't think anything of it because there were cops everywhere. And so, I ran up with the ginger ale bottle, which was about half full and put it in my refrigerator. 00:28:00I even asked one of my housemates if she wanted to come along, you know, and see what was going on. And, uh, she was wise enough to say no. (laughs) Um, but we, I ran back down the hill. And I, I enjoyed running. I, I used to run a whole lot just, uh, because I liked it, I still like it. And, uh, ran back down the hill and joined my friends there at the corner, and we crossed Euclid and went down, uh, by the Student Center parking lot and noticed there were lines of, um, police. I think they were city police with this terrible, intimidating-looking equipment. I 00:29:00mean(??), big helmets and nightsticks. And it seems they had gas masks. And, uh, just all kinds of guns. (laughs) And, uh, they looked like ----------(??) robots or Martians. And, uh, it was very scary looking. And, um, we went on up, uh, you know, those stairs that go up by the botanical gardens, uh, which was by, which are by Buell Armory. And I saw some guy throwing a, a brick through a window at Buell Armory. And, you know, I started getting kind of, uh, an unnerved feeling. And I saw some police carrying him away. Um, and then I saw a teacher, and I stopped, uh, a, a sociology teacher of mine, and I stopped to talk with her, 00:30:00you know, about what he had done, you know, and why they were carrying him away, what was going to happen to him. And, uh, in the moment that I stopped to talk to her, uh, I got separated from my friends. And it, you know, there was a big crowd up there, uh, in front of Buell Armory. Um, and, you know, around in front of the administration building, that, uh, uh, around where that statue of Patterson is. Yeah.
SALMON: And, uh, up there, we were, a couple lines of, um,campus police, and they were less intimidating than those guys down near this, uh, Euclid, by the Student Center, they, uh, you know, I stopped to talk to some of them. And I saw some friends talking to them, and I just, you know, uh, was chatting. 00:31:00And, and then, uh, I started looking for my friends and I couldn't see them anywhere in the crowd. And, uh, all of the sudden some guy was up there making a big speech. And, uh, I just, um, I don't know, I hadn't been real turned on big, rowdy crowds, and, and, uh, speakers who were yelling real loud. Uh, you know, that's, that's not something that I would, uh, particularly like to participate in. So, you know, I was, uh, feeling like I wanted to find my friends and just get out of there. I didn't, you know, I didn't like the idea that the police were all around, and it was a group of people I didn't feel comfortable with. But so, at that time I saw a glow in the distance. And, 00:32:00uh, uh, behind the Student Center, I thought the Student Center's on fire, you know. I thought, Shoot, I want to get out of here. I, you know, I don't want to be around a burning building with all these police, you know, on one side of the burning building--(laughs)--and the other, I didn't want to be sandwiched in there at all. And so, I couldn't find my friends, but I decided just go on home. And so, I just started jogging back home. Uh, I went down those steps, uh, by the side of Buell Armory again, and, and, um, down by the Student Center, and, uh, you know, went across Euclid, just jogging along there. And as I got up Lexington Avenue, all of the sudden I wasn't jogging on the ground anymore. There was, I was in mid air because there was a policeman on either 00:33:00side of me--(laughs)--and they just sort of picked me up, uh, one on each arm. And, um, they put me in a police car. And I said, "What's going on? What's going on?" And, uh, you know, they didn't say anything. And by that time there were about ten or fifteen of these Lexington residents who'd been parked eagle-eyed in the, uh, in their cars, they were all standing around this, uh, police car. And they were saying, "We saw her do it! We saw her do it! We saw her throw that bottle." And, uh, and I said, "What's going on?" And they said, finally some cop said, uh, uh, "You know, we saw you with that bottle, and you're, you're being arrested for burning down the Air Force ROTC building." And I, I said, "Well, I can explain what I was doing with 00:34:00that bottle; I put it in my refrigerator. So just, you know, walk a couple of houses up the road with me, I'll show you that it's still there." (laughs) And, uh, you know, they, they were very, uh, nasty, I thought, just, they wouldn't, they wouldn't speak to me. And, uh, they, uh, put me in this van, in the back of this, uh, police van, and, uh, shut the doors. And, uh, I saw a friend that was(??) driving, as they were driving away, I saw a friend out there and waved at her. (laughs)
SALMON: And I, I guess she was the first one that knewI was arrested that was, uh, a photographer with the Kernel. And, uh, as we were driving down, um, I guess they, they drove down, um, um, Lexington Avenue down Euclid and, uh, up Rose 00:35:00Street, and these, these cops had the little air hole vents, um, open between the front and the, uh, back of the, uh, you know, the cab in the back of the--
SALMON: --the van, they had them open, and they were saying stufflike, "Well, students should be studying, you know. Not, not throwing bombs at buildings," or something like that. "Not burning down buildings," that's what they were saying. And I just felt terrible. I, I thought they could take me out and kill me because, um, and nobody ever know the difference. And all these thoughts raced through my mind, like, uh, well, you know, at least they didn't shoot me. (laughs)
SALMON: And, uh, that, you know, I thought, uh, you know, Ijust didn't know what was going to happen to me. They 00:36:00took me down to the municipal building, you know, on, on Walnut. And, uh, that's where the holdover was. I don't know if it's still there. And, uh, we went in the lobby, and there were lots of police down there with bulletproof vests on. I guess getting ready to go over to U.K. And, uh, they took me upstairs, uh, to be questioned. And, uh, put me in a room with, uh, uh, Frank Fryman(??), Sergeant Fryman he was back then. And, um, he had, he was notorious, uh, he had a notorious reputation because he had, uh, busted lots of U.K. students for marijuana. You, you know, he never would 00:37:00make any serious drug arrests, but he would always prey on, you know, young kids at U.K. for pot. And, um, he was, um, the Blue Tail Fly had run on, uh--(laughs)--sort of a, uh, a critical article about him. He had gotten Lexington's top cop of the year award--(laughs)--that year--
[Pause in recording.]
SALMON: --Fryman's still on the police force, and he's one of thetop guys now in the Lexington police force. And, um, he in fact was, uh, I heard he was in top contention for chief, uh, before whoever it is got it this time. Luckily whoever it is got it--(laughs)--rather than him. But, um, anyway, they 00:38:00put me in the room with him, and I mean they couldn't have picked a worse policeman, because, uh, well, as far as I was concerned because of his reputation in hating U.K. students. And so, that was very intimidating. But it was worse than that because--(laughs)--there were about ten other people in the room, like some guy with a fireman, a couple of guys with fireman's uniforms and helmets on. And, uh, I don't know how many male cops. And, uh, it was just, you know, they were all(??), I had, uh, I had this, I looked real scruffy; I had an old Army shirt on that my brother had given me a year ago or something, and, uh, had an old T-shirt and blue jeans and 00:39:00tennis shoes and, uh, wide-rim glasses. And, uh, you know, they probably would've arrested me just for wearing what I was wearing at that time, because one thing about U.K. at that time was, uh, students or respectable students dressed, you know, in villager dresses and, uh, shirts and ties. And, uh, you know, I'm sure I wouldn't have been arrested if I had had on one of my villager dresses. And, uh, you know, but I was dressed for drinking ginger ale--(laughs)--with some friends and not, you know--
SALMON: --going to church. So, there I was with all theseguys that were dressed up in police uniforms or fireman outfits. And, and, uh, they had a, a woman police person, uh, search 00:40:00me. She took me in a little room and searched me. And, uh, and then, uh, I don't know what she was looking for--(laughs). Uh, but then they took me out back into the little room in, in front of these, um, ten people, and Fryman sitting behind a desk, looking very authoritarian. And, uh, he kept asking me to tell him who I was with that night, and, uh, what we were doing. And I, you know, I, I recounted the story, you know, what I just told you what had happened, and he wanted the names of the people I was with, and I wanted assurance from him that he wouldn't arrest them, because I mean he had just as much reason to arrest them 00:41:00as to arrest me. Uh, they had the same ginger ale in their stomachs. (laughs) And, uh, so, I wasn't gonna tell him the, tell him their names. And, uh, my, I didn't, he told me I could make one phone call. Uh, you know. So, uh, there I was making my one phone call in front of these ten guys. And Fryman, and this phone right out, he pulled out from his desk said, "Here, make your phone call." So I called my house and talked to this housemate who had been wise enough not to step outside the door that night. And, uh, she was a law student, and I asked her, uh, to call Bill. I needed a lawyer, and told her what had happened. And, uh, I meant(??) Bill 00:42:00Allison(??), who was a, uh, he was married to a friend of mine. And, uh, you know, I knew he'd take the case. Uh, well, she thought I meant Bill Kenton. Uh, you know him?
PETER: Uh, he's the, uh--
SALMON: --he was speaker of the House--
PETER: --that's right--
SALMON: --the State General Assembly. And, uh, he's, uh, he happensto be my representative right now. (laughs) But she called him. And she's a black woman. And, uh, Kenton always had this reputation of being a friend of the blacks, you know, he really, until this session of the General Assembly when they nearly voted him out. And, uh, so he gerrymandered his district so he kicked all the blacks out--(laughs)--or a, a big percentage of them. 00:43:00Well anyway, that's why she called him. And he said, "Yeah, I'll go down there, you know, and talk to her." Well, he never showed up. He just, you know, he takes cases that would be politically advantageous for him, and the temperament at that time was anti-student, and he didn't want to get involved in any student case, I think. So, you know, I was there without a lawyer. And, uh, Fryman, you know, kept asking me, uh, "Well, who were you with? You know, what was going on," and all. And so, I didn't see why I should tell him the names of these people, uh, you know, without a lawyer anyway. And, but he just kept asking me questions and everything. And, uh, finally while I was in the room, uh, my father called. And my father's up in years. Uh, he was, oh, uh, he was in his mid-sixties then. And, 00:44:00uh, and he had heart trouble, and I wasn't gonna call my parents because I, you know, until the next day, because I didn't want them to worry. And, uh, you know, they're the kind of people that would stay up all night, which they did. Somebody from my hometown heard about it and called them.
SALMON: You know, I guess woke them up, and it was, uh,it was about midnight, I guess. And, uh, they called, and, uh, my father, uh, talked to me there(??) on the phone in front of these ten people. And, uh, Fryman had told him what was going on, and my father, he, Fryman promised my father that he wouldn't arrest these people. And so, uh, you know, 00:45:00on the basis of that I told him their names, and they went to my house and got them. And, uh, got the ginger ale and brought them up for questioning and then they let them go. Uh, you know, they verified my story, but they kept me, you know, still. After two hours of questioning with Fryman, they, uh, I guess it was about two in the morning, they, um, took me to another room, and Amato, uh, who was police judge then, uh, was sitting there, and he, he said, "Well, the"--he was pretty friendly--he said, "Well, the Lexington Herald's already come out. And, and they set your bail at fifty thousand dollars, but I wouldn't set it for that much if you'd burned down city hall." (laughs) And he said he set it at like two thousand or something. And, uh, so, they sent, they took 00:46:00me upstairs to, oh, I guess, I guess I'd been fingerprinted before, uh, yeah, before the questioning they took me up to be fingerprinted, uh, up where the cells are, you know. Uh, they took a photograph, fingerprint, asked me the names of my family. And I wish I hadn't told them, but I did. But I just felt so innocent, I didn't, you know, I thought they just let me go.
SALMON: So, I didn't see any harm in telling them my folks'name, but I wish I had, hadn't even told them that now. The, some guy made this comment, uh, "Oh, we've seen your name in the Blue Tail Fly." One of the police said 00:47:00that, and, uh, I thought it was pretty strange because, you know, I had bi--
[Pause in recording.]
SALMON: --pretty strange, because, you know, I had been involved with theFly since we'd started. And, uh, but I hadn't written much for it. Um, and I'd drive my car up to get to take the stuff to get printed and bring it back in my car, and, uh, I wrote a few things and helped with layout and that kind of stuff. But, um, I mean, it's not like I was Walter Cronkite or something. (laughs). It was, my name was pretty obscure in the paper. And, and, uh, I mean, they must've been really up on that kind of stuff--
SALMON: --to, uh, to have been able to have commented that.00:48:00And, uh, anyway, I, that was before Fryman's questioning, and then, uh, they took me back up to that area where I'd been fingerprinted and put me in a cell. And, uh, the, the cellblock for the women was like, uh, I guess it's also the drunk tanks, you know. There were a couple of women in there. And, uh, they were older, and one, I think both of them had just gotten out of Eastern State. They, one kept asking the jailer to call her psychiatrist at Eastern State or a social worker there, and the other one kept saying she'd just been mace, and she was screaming, um, hitting her shoe against the bars. And, uh, and just cussing and all kinds of stuff. 00:49:00And the, the beds, the cots were like wooden boards. They had bunks, you know, one wooden board below and one wooden board above. And so I crawled up on one of the upper ones. And, uh, I, uh, they didn't even let us have blankets. Uh, one, one woman there had a blanket. And, uh, she, she was, she'd been there for a couple of days, and she just, she was saying that she wandered in. Uh, somebody had found her out in the country just wandering around, lost, and had brought her in to town. And, uh, she went to the police station and, and asked them to let her come in, you know. And they put her inside and she'd been 00:50:00there for two days without any appearance before a judge. I guess, just everyone in there seemed like they had just gotten out of Eastern State. And, uh, they, one of them asked me, you know what, what was I in for? And I said, "I don't know really." Uh, I, I didn't particularly want to talk about the different aspects of my case with them. But anyway, you know, it was a typical, worst stereotype jail cell. And, uh, and bare light bulb hanging down, burning all night. And early in the morning they brought us a, a piece of marshmallow bread and, uh, coffee. (laughs) And, uh, maybe an egg. (laughs) I don't know. But it was pretty gross. And, and, uh, this, I hadn't, I don't guess I 00:51:00slept any at all that night. It was real cold. There's no blanket. And the windows were, were open, uh, across from the cell. And, um, and this, this woman down the, a couple of cells down kept screaming all night--well, two of them kept screaming all night long, "Call my psychiatrist! Don't mace me, you, you know, you pig jailer!" You know--(laughs)--and that kind of stuff, and they just screaming. And, uh, the, uh, at real early in the morning this, this other policeman, uh, Detective McClure, I think he was a sergeant, McClure, came up, and, uh, to my cell and he said, "Well, it's time to be questioned." And I said, "I just," I said, "Oh, you know." I was pretty groggy and all this, and we started out the, uh, I 00:52:00started down to the elevator with him. And I said, and I, you know, suddenly I had a flash of, uh, consciousness, and I said, "Well, you know, Fryman questioned me for two hours last night. I don't know what more I'm going to say, you know. And I don't have a lawyer yet. Uh, why, why are you, why do you want to talk to me again?" He said, "Oh, I didn't know Fryman had talked to you." And Fryman hadn't even written up a report of the questioning. Uh, so, McClure let me go back. And, uh, a little while later, uh, the jailer said, "Well, you're free." Uh, and, uh, I didn't know what was going on and went downstairs, and John Y. Brown, you know, this grandfatherly-looking old man, uh, was 00:53:00down there, and he just put up my bail, and my parents had, uh, gotten him. They, they called a, a lawyer friend of theirs in Madisonville. And, uh, he had suggested that John Y. Brown was a good lawyer up here. And, uh, well, my, you know, my folks, they said they wanted the best lawyer for me. And so, uh, Brown, uh, got me out. And they had, they had scheduled a preliminary hearing, I guess. Uh, no, it was, it, it was something, well, I guess, yeah, a preliminary hearing that afternoon. And, uh, so, he gave me a ride home. And, uh, as we were walking out, you know, Amato was walking across the parking lot, and waved ----------(??) to us. "How are you doing?" (laughs) Was real friendly. 00:54:00And, uh, uh, Brown gave me a ride home. And, and, uh, I, I took a bath and changed clothes and went back down to the, uh, I guess, to the courthouse for the hearing. And, uh, I was wearing a, a dress then and, uh, stockings, and, you know, my hair was real straight looking and all. And so, Brown said he hardly recognized me. (laughs) And, and I really realized that, you know, had I been wearing that same outfit the night before I wouldn't have been thrown in the clink. Uh, but they, uh, there were reporters down there, you know, asking me for comments and that kind of stuff. And Brown just told me not to say anything. And, 00:55:00uh, they, what they did was they, uh, you know, made the charges, arson. And, uh, set a hearing date, which was, oh, I think about a week later. And, uh, or a few days later anyway. And so, Brown told me to get character witnesses lined up. And, uh, you know, in the next few days and have them scheduled to appear in court. So, uh, you know, that's what I did for the next few days. I'd been, I'd been active, like, in the student YWCA. And, uh, and I talked with the Y advisor and, uh, teachers and 00:56:00people who were going to appear for me. I, my parents came up. And, uh, they, uh, went with me to visit Stu Forth who was, uh, like, dean of students then. Oh, I don't know if he was dean of students; he was some kind of administrator. I don't remember what he was really. Uh, but, uh, we went up to the, I guess, it was a day or two after I was arrested, we went up to, uh, the office tower and, uh, to his office. And as we went up there, we noticed there were lots of National Guardsman around the Buell Armory. Uh, and that afternoon, there was also a demonstration scheduled at the Student Center. And so, I guess 00:57:00right after we talked with Forth, we went up to the top floor, yeah--oh, we were leaving the, the, uh, office tower, and somebody at the door told us we couldn't go out. There was tear gas outside. (laughs) So, we went back up to the top floor of the tower. I suggested my parents come on up there and see what was going on. We went up there and, and saw the whole thing happen down at the Student Center patio, of, uh, all these students just peacefully sitting on the grass, and these guardsmen coming with so many sprays, like Orkin exterminators. And, uh, there was, you know, there was a cop on top of the coliseum, Memorial Coliseum. And, uh, I guess they were on the roofs of all the buildings or something. But, uh, we waited a while, and, uh, after it was all 00:58:00over and, uh, went out. My parents, they just thought it was disgusting that the guard was spraying these students, you know, who were just sitting there. But, you know, I guess, uh, the university had, uh, they had made a rule that students couldn't, uh, collect together.
SALMON: Uh, and they were dispersing them. Uh, so, anyway, Ihad my, uh, character witnesses lined up and was all ready to go, and I figured it'd be dismissed right away. Um, since they had no evidence at all. They had kept my ginger ale, however. (laughs) I never did get paid back for 00:59:00it. (laughs) Uh, but anyway, uh, they, they ended up postponing the hearing. And I had already had a, a summer job lined up in Virginia. So, I was leaving, uh, but they scheduled it, um, for July sometime. And, uh, I told my witnesses, you know, to, to plan on, if they could be around then to, to, you know, appear. And, uh, I figured I'd just come back from my job. And, uh, that summer, uh, you know, I was real nervous about it and all. Uh, like I didn't tell people I was working in(??) what was 01:00:00going on, because I, you know, I didn't figure, I didn't figure they'd particularly want to know. But, uh, someone, uh, let's see. Somehow, uh, Parade magazine found out that I was there, and, and they called me, they wanted to do a story on it. And I, at that time, I just didn't want them to do a story on me. So, uh, anyway, I was planning on going back to Lexington. I told all my friends I was working with, you know, what was going on, and they accepted it and anything. And then I got a call from a lawyer, from Mr. Brown saying, uh, "Don't, don't bother to come. It's gonna be dismissed. There's no reason for you to make the drive." It was about a six-hour drive from where I was working. So, uh, I thought, "Well, shoot, you know, I won't go back if I don't have to." He said, "Character 01:01:00witnesses, you don't have to have them there or anything." Well, that wasn't the best thing, the best move for me apparently because, um, rather than dismissing it for no evidence at all, they dismissed it on lack of sufficient evidence. And, uh, Mr. Brown said he was, he pushed for no evidence at all, but, uh, I don't know, I wasn't there. And nobody I knew was there really. So, uh.
PETER: Do you know why it was, uh, set back to beginwith from, why the hearing had been set back?
SALMON: Well, um, I'm not really sure. One reason, I think,was that, um, well, people's tempers at that time were really hostile. Uh, I don't, I don't know for sure. You know, I can only speculate as to why it was set back. I think, uh, there was, you know, the community was so polarized, 01:02:00like say if I'd been put before a jury in Lexington, they probably would've hanged me right there on the spot just because they hated students so much. And, and, uh, you know, I'd been a student. Uh, so, that might've been one reason. Another reason, you know, could've been that they didn't want me to attend the hearing, I, I don't know. I think, I think probably not, I think that it was just, uh, because, uh, the -----------(??) that existed in, uh, for any kind of fair hearing, you know, 01:03:00tempers had to cool down some.
PETER: Right. I wanted to ask you, uh, what kind ofreaction you got from, um, your friends and people who, uh, who didn't know you but, but knew that you were the one--
PETER: --that had been accused?
SALMON: Well, my friends, uh, my parents were totally supportive of me.
SALMON: And they were just, you know, I'd probably still be injail or hung or something by now if it hadn't been for them. But, uh, some friends came down for the, uh, preliminary hearing, uh, the day after I'd been arrested, a few friends. Mostly people I knew avoided me because, well, our house was being watched, you know, in the week, uh, between my arrest and the, 01:04:00the supposed hearing, you know, which was set off for a couple of months. Uh, there was a cop car parked across the street. (laughs) And, uh, in that little street behind the coliseum. And, uh, I don't know, it was just, um, my address had been printed in the paper. And, uh, I guess people I knew didn't particularly want to be followed, you know, which they might've been if they'd come by. You know people were pretty paranoid back then. I, I, I remember one friend came by to my house and offered his condolences. (laughs) A, a couple of friends came down to the hearing, and well, actually about four friends came down to the hearing that I, I knew 01:05:00of or the preliminary hearing.
SALMON: Um, you know, the people who I asked to be characterwitnesses, all but one professor agreed to be. Uh, and I'm not really sure why he didn't accept.
[Pause in recording.]
SALMON: Uh, he sent me a, a letter later saying he washappy I, my case had been dismissed. (laughs) But, uh, you know, I think people were afraid to, he and other people were afraid to be implicated in this, uh, case of arson. And so, it was a very alienating experience. Uh, but luckily I had a real, uh, supportive group I was working with in 01:06:00Virginia and had a pretty interesting job there. Um, when I returned to U.K. in the fall, um, I just had a little coursework to finish up. But I found I was real nervous, and, uh, every time I saw a police car I almost had a heart attack. (laughs) And, uh, it was, it was just real hard to concentrate on the schoolwork. I, I felt a lot of resentment to U.K. Um, and, you know, I felt like if I could be arrested for carrying ginger ale, I could be arrested for carrying books. Hm. Uh, and, you know, so, uh.
PETER: Great. Great. ----------(??) get out of here. That's01:07:00pretty much it, I suppose. Is there anything else, you know, any other dramatic experiences--
PETER: --that come to mind? (Salmon laughs) ----------(??) of that(??)time around?
SALMON: Well, just, uh, I don't know, I just, I really resentthe atmosphere that existed back then.
SALMON: And, uh, well, I think people like Nixon and Agnew provokedthat kind of polarized atmosphere that, uh, allowed something like that to happen, allowed such a blatant case of false arrest to, to happen. And, uh--
[End of interview.]