Interview with Walter Wellesley "Red" Smith, November 13, 1979

Partial Transcript: You mentioned that, um, in the beginning, your column saw Chandler in a more favorable...

Segment Synopsis: Smith discusses Chandler as baseball commissioner from his perspective as a newspaper reporter. He also recalls an editorial disagreement between himself and Chandler.

Keywords: Herald Tribune; Newspapers; Philadelphia Record; Sports columns; Sportswriters

Subjects: Baseball commissioners; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991

Partial Transcript: What, what are your first recollections of Chandler. Where did you, did you first meet him personally?

Segment Synopsis: Smith details his first interactions between himself and Chandler. He states that his earlier relationship with Chandler was friendly, but quickly soured. He also mentions several other sportswriters who had difficulties with Chandler.

Keywords: Bill Corum; Chicago; Frank Graham; Herald Tribune; World Series (1945)

Subjects: Baseball commissioners; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Harridge, Will, 1883-1971

Partial Transcript: Lets go back, a little bit. Um I'd like to ask you throughout the interview about the people that Chandler came in contact with...

Segment Synopsis: Smith talks about Larry MacPhail's role in Chandler's becoming baseball commissioner. He discusses his perception of and relationship with MacPhail.

Keywords: Commissioners; Connie Mack; Relationships

Subjects: Baseball commissioners; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Durocher, Leo, 1906-1991.; MacPhail, Larry, 1890-1975; Webb, Del E., 1899-1974

Partial Transcript: He bought the Yankees also in 1945, is that right? Along with Del Webb...

Segment Synopsis: Smith discusses MacPhail's involvement in the 1945 purchase of the Yankees franchise, and his general involvement with the team and with Chandler. He talks about MacPhail's life after he left baseball, including several public altercations that he was involved in.

Keywords: Altercations; Arguments; Dan Topping; General managers; George Weiss

Subjects: Baseball managers; MacPhail, Larry, 1890-1975; New York Yankees (Baseball Team); Webb, Del E., 1899-1974

Partial Transcript: I'd like to go back--(Smith coughs)--to the end of 1945, and ask you why did they pick Chandler. if they had other candidates?

Segment Synopsis: Smith talks about the reason Chandler was considered to be a good candidate for commissioner. He also discusses Danny Gardella's case, how he was paid off, and how it affected Chandler. He mentions Chandler's testifying at the Gardella hearing and his own testimony at various hearings.

Keywords: Baseball umpires; Danny Gardella; Ernie Stewart; Fredrick Johnson; Hearings; Judge Jerome Frank; Mexican League; Testimonies; Umpires

Subjects: Baseball commissioners; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Gardella, Daniel L.; Harridge, Will, 1883-1971; Liga Mexicana de Beisbol Profesional

Partial Transcript: Who paid off Danny Gardella?

Segment Synopsis: Smith speculates on who paid off Danny Gardella. He discusses Judge Landis as a person and as a commissioner, includes his first time meeting him. He mentions the power that Landis had as the commissioner of baseball.

Keywords: Baseball reserve system; Frederick Johnson; Reserve clauses; Tommy Henrich

Subjects: Baseball commissioners; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Gardella, Daniel L.; Landis, Kenesaw Mountain, 1866-1944; Saigh, Fred

Partial Transcript: I'm curious, did Chandler, um, assume the same powers that Landis had?

Segment Synopsis: Smith talks about the various baseball commissioners after Landis, including Happy Chandler, Ford Frick, Spike Eckert and Bowie Kuhn. He also discusses how the commissioners approached their work.

Keywords: Bowie Kuhn; Spike Eckert

Subjects: Baseball commissioners; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Frick, Ford C.; Landis, Kenesaw Mountain, 1866-1944

Partial Transcript: Chandler was, by some players, was considered a players commissioner.

Segment Synopsis: Smith talks about some of the incidents surrounding the "high school signing rule". He also expresses his opinion that Chandler had nothing to do with integrating baseball.

Subjects: Baseball; Baseball commissioners; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Major League Baseball (Organization); Segregation

Partial Transcript: Another, um, element that cropped up during that first year, and, and even more so in the second year Chandler was commissioner...

Segment Synopsis: Smith states that he did not see gambling as a threat to major league baseball. He also talks about the integrity of the players during Chandler's era as commissioner.

Keywords: Gambling; Russ Christopher

Subjects: Baseball commissioners; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Minor league baseball.

Partial Transcript: Um, let's turn to something that you also discussed a little earlier. You made the statement that there was no color line

Segment Synopsis: Smith shares his opinions on baseball's "color line". He talks about an article written by Al Laney, which led to his being the first sportswriter to interview Jackie Robinson.

Keywords: Al Laney; Blacks in Baseball; Racial integration; Sportswriters; The Herald- Tribune

Subjects: Baseball; Baseball--United States--Social aspects; Rickey, Branch, 1881-1965; Robinson, Jackie, 1919-1972

Partial Transcript: Do you remember your first interviews with Robinson?

Segment Synopsis: Smith talks about his first interview with Jackie Robinson. He also discusses his lack of a relationship with Robinson. He describes how Branch Rickey's desire to break the color line was partially due to his experiences with Charlie Thomas.

Keywords: "Color line"; Charlie Thomas; Connie Mack; Integration of baseball; University of Michigan

Subjects: African American baseball players; Rickey, Branch, 1881-1965; Robinson, Jackie, 1919-1972; Segregation

Partial Transcript: Um, would, would you give the credit then to Branch Rickey?

Segment Synopsis: Smith mentions how other black baseball players had been considered before Jackie Robinson. He also talks about Branch Rickey's personality.

Keywords: Football Dodgers; Philadelphia Eagles; Racial Integration

Partial Transcript: But he was so good at evasion, at circumlocution, that he didn't have to lie.

Segment Synopsis: Smith talks about Rickey's ability to evade questions, his successes in baseball, and his style as a businessman. He also discusses Rickey's relationship with Bill Dewitt.

Keywords: Businessmen; Evasion

Subjects: Baseball; Baseball team owners; Brooklyn Dodgers (Baseball Team); DeWitt, William O.; Rickey, Branch, 1881-1965; St. Louis Cardinals (Baseball Team)

Partial Transcript: ...Rickey really, with his farm system idea, didn't he sort of uh, well he made the others sort of hop on the bandwagon.

Segment Synopsis: Smith briefly talks about Branch Rickey's farm system. He also discusses a note that Rickey wrote to him.

Keywords: Baseball farm system; Farm system; Notes

Subjects: Baseball; Rickey, Branch, 1881-1965

Partial Transcript: Um, how about Larry Doby. Did you ever interview him?

Segment Synopsis: Smith shares his impressions of Larry Doby. He also talks about an article he wrote about Doby that caused a minor incident between himself and an African American newspaper.

Keywords: African American newspapers; Newspaper columns; Newspapers

Subjects: African American baseball players; Baseball players; Doby, Larry

Partial Transcript: No, it's called... Has Baseball Forgotten the Fan?

Segment Synopsis: Smith talks about an article that he wrote claiming that that baseball was becoming less fun. He discusses how Walter O'Malley personified the negative side of baseball as a business.

Keywords: Barnstorming; Barnstorming tours; Baseball fans; Business; Entertainment; Fans; Saturday Evening Post

Partial Transcript: Uh, one of the things that happened that caused the owners a lot of consternation...

Segment Synopsis: Smith discusses how the rise of the Mexican League hurt Major League baseball. He talks about the players lost to the Mexican League. He also describes the impact of an incident sparked by an article about the Mexican League.

Keywords: Eddie Dyer; Herald Tribune; Mexican League; Newspapers; Sportswriters

Subjects: Baseball; Breadon, Sam, 1876-1949; Liga Mexicana de Beisbol Profesional; Major League Baseball (Organization)

Partial Transcript: Did you at all, did you talk with any of the players that came back from the Mexican League...

Segment Synopsis: Smith discusses Sam Breadon, both as a person and as a businessman.

Keywords: Businessmen; Personality

Subjects: Baseball team owners; Breadon, Sam, 1876-1949; St. Louis Cardinals (Baseball Team)

Partial Transcript: Another thing that happened in 1946 was the American Baseball Guild.

Segment Synopsis: Smith talks about the impact of the baseball labor movement, led by Robert Murphy. He also discusses his dislike of the reserve system though he says that he approves of a modified reserve system. He also mentions the 1890 players' movement against the reserve system.

Subjects: Labor movement; National League (Major League Baseball)

Partial Transcript: Um, moving along, let's move from '46 to '47...

Segment Synopsis: Smith talks about Durocher's personality and the incident that led to his falling out with him. He also mentions the events that led to Durocher's suspension, which Smith did not agree with.

Keywords: Durocher suspension; Personality; Suspensions

Subjects: Durocher, Leo, 1906-1991.; MacPhail, Larry, 1890-1975; Rickey, Branch, 1881-1965

Partial Transcript: It developed in a quarrel, uh, between MacPhail and Durocher, with Charlie Dressen slightly involved...

Segment Synopsis: Smith gives his opinion that Durocher's suspension was unwarranted, and was more about Chandler siding with MacPhail due to the role MacPhail played in Chandler's becoming the commissioner. He also discusses other reasons why Chandler might have suspended Durocher.

Keywords: Durocher suspension; Leo Durocher; Suspensions

Subjects: Baseball commissioners; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Durocher, Leo, 1906-1991.; MacPhail, Larry, 1890-1975

Partial Transcript: ...We were just covering the Durocher incident, I think we were just finishing that up.

Segment Synopsis: Smith talks about the early discussions on radio and television rights. He also mentions an experimental telecast from Ebbets Field.

Keywords: Ebbets Field (New York, N.Y.); Radio; Radio rights; Television; Television rights

Subjects: Baseball commissioners; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Gillette Safety Razor Company

Partial Transcript: Before I go to the... Chandler's demise, let's say, there's a few...

Segment Synopsis: Smith discusses the aborted St. Louis Cardinals strike, which was planned to occur when they went to Brooklyn. He gives his opinion that Ford Frick lied about the situation.

Keywords: Baseball strikes; Sportswriters; Stanley Woodward; Strikes

Subjects: Baseball commissioners; Brooklyn Dodgers (Baseball Team); Frick, Ford C.; St. Louis Cardinals (Baseball Team); Strikes and lockouts

Partial Transcript: Um, another thing that I haven't talked too much about-- we've alluded to it and actually mentioned it a couple times...

Segment Synopsis: Smith talks about Chandler's feeling that the New York sportswriters were against him. He briefly mentions Chandler's relationship with Muddy Ruel. They also mention the antics of Bill Veeck.

Keywords: Bill Veeck; Muddy Ruel; New York Press; Newspapers; Sportswriters

Subjects: Baseball commissioners; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; New York (N.Y.); Ruel, Herold Dominic, 1896-1963.; Veeck, Bill

Partial Transcript: Well, I've known Bill a long, long time and uh, uh, watched him slowly lose more more of that leg...

Segment Synopsis: Smith talks about two deals that fell through for Bill Veeck. One fell through due to Judge Landis, while the other involved his hiring Elston Howard.

Keywords: Elston Howard; Gerald Nugent; Judge Landis; Newspapers

Subjects: Landis, Kenesaw Mountain, 1866-1944; Veeck, Bill

Partial Transcript: Why don't, why don't we go to the period when Chandler was voted out of office.

Segment Synopsis: Smith discusses where he was when he learned that Chandler was being voted out of office, and tells why he did not cover this event. He also talks about Chandler's campaign to stay in office.

Keywords: Commissioners; Votes; Voting

Subjects: Baseball commissioners; Baseball team owners; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991

Partial Transcript: Do you um, have any, any knowledge of who voted for or against Chandler?

Segment Synopsis: Smith discusses the relationship he had with various team owners from the American League, who were involved in the ousting of Chandler. He talks about characters of both Spike Briggs and his father.

Keywords: Character; Chuck Comisky; Connie Mack; Personality; Spike Briggs

Subjects: American League (Major League Baseball); Baseball commissioners; Baseball team owners; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Comiskey, Charles A.

Partial Transcript: We talked about Del Webb, and we've assumed he voted against Chandler, almost surely

Segment Synopsis: Smith shares his thoughts on Del Webb, Larry MacPhail, Dan Topping, and Bill DeWitt.

Keywords: Bill DeWitt; Dan Topping

Subjects: Baseball team owners; DeWitt, William O.; MacPhail, Larry, 1890-1975; Webb, Del E., 1899-1974

Partial Transcript: Let's turn to the National League. Phillip K. Wrigley.

Segment Synopsis: Smith discusses Phil Wrigley and Lou Perini. He talks about an article in which he accidentally called Wrigley an alcoholic.

Keywords: Fat Red Smith; Lou Perini; Phil Wrigley

Subjects: Baseball team owners; Wrigley, Philip K. (Philip Knight), 1894-1977

Partial Transcript: Walter O'Malley--(Smith sighs)--

Segment Synopsis: Smith discusses the power that Walter O'Malley had as a team owner. He also talks about Warren Giles, Robert Carpenter, and Horace Stoneham, both in general and in whether they voted for or against Chandler.

Keywords: Horace Stoneham; Robert Carpenter; San Diego Padres

Partial Transcript: Okay, uh, and Fred Saigh. We've talked a little bit about him.

Segment Synopsis: Smith shares his opinion on how Fred Saigh may have voted on Chandler's commissionership, also mentioning his legal troubles. He also talks briefly about two other team owners.

Subjects: Baseball commissioners; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Galbreath, John W. (John Wilmer), 1897-; Saigh, Fred

Partial Transcript: What do you find is distinctive about this period, if anything-- I mean, I'm making an assumption...

Segment Synopsis: Smith discusses what he thought about baseball during Chandler's time as commissioner. He talks about the changes that occurred during this time, and how it was a lively time for all of sports. He also talks about what it was like to be a sportswriter in New York, and what it was like to get into writing about sports. The interview is concluded.

Keywords: baseball during World War II

Subjects: Baseball; Baseball commissioners; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; World War, 1939-1945