Interview with James Fleming Gordon, November 16, 1976

Partial Transcript: --Charles P. Roland, the University of Kentucky History Department, interviewing United States Judge James Gordon in his office in Louisville, Kentucky.

Segment Synopsis: Gordon discusses his family's connection to politics and how he first learned of Happy Chandler. He talks about how he and Jack Fulton interacted with Chandler during his time in law school.

Keywords: American Bar Association; Campaigns; Chief Justice of the Court of Appeals; Delegates; Democrats; Elections; Hopkins County, Kentucky; Influences; Jack Fulton; Joe Leary; Joseph Leary; Justice Fulton; Laffoon Democrats; Law partners; Lawyers; Madisonville, Kentucky; Mike Mills; Mothers; Night law schools; Nominations; Political affairs; Senators

Subjects: Barkley, Alben William, 1877-1956; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Democratic Party (Ky.); Families.; Governors--Election; Governors--Kentucky; Hopkins County (Ky.); Laffoon, Ruby, 1869-1941; Lieutenant governors--Kentucky; Madisonville (Ky.); Politicians--Kentucky; University of Kentucky. Department of History

Partial Transcript: Judge Gordon, could I interrupt just to, to ask a question here?

Segment Synopsis: Gordon discusses why he and others switched their support from the opposing side of the Kentucky Democratic Party. He talks about his desire for more political influence, and Chandler's personality. Gordon also talks about how Chandler could return to politics after leaving it to become Commissioner of Baseball.

Keywords: Campaigns; Careers; Commissioners of Baseball; Factions; Finances; Football games; Influences; Laffoon Democrats; Organization; Personalities; Political factions; Relationships; Sales taxes; State governments; Whiskey taxes

Subjects: Baseball commissioners; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Democratic Party (Ky.); Governors--Election; Governors--Kentucky; Laffoon, Ruby, 1869-1941; Occupations; Politicians--Kentucky; Wetherby, Lawrence W. (Lawrence Winchester), 1908-; Wetherby, Lawrence Winchester, 1908-

Partial Transcript: Now, after I got started building it and it became very apparent to Chandler and to Leary that I meant business...

Segment Synopsis: Gordon talks about his role in Chandler's 1955 gubernatorial campaign. He discusses Chandler as a candidate and his ability to remember others. Gordon discusses Chandler's challenges interacting with the media.

Keywords: Advance teams; Campaign finances; Campaigns; Campaigns funds; Candidates; Elections; Finances; Floyd Wilkey; Frenchy DeMoisey; Gubernatorial campaigns; Gubernatorial races; Joe Leary; John "Frenchy" DeMoisey; John DeMoisey; Joseph Leary; Media coverage; Newspapers; Races; Schedules; Scheduling; Sheriff Floyd Wilkey; Speaker's Chairman; Speeches; Tax policies; Taxes; Training

Subjects: Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Democratic Party (Ky.); Governors--Election; Governors--Kentucky; Political campaigns--Kentucky; Politicians--Kentucky; Press and politics.; State governments; Taxation--Law and legislation--Kentucky; Wetherby, Lawrence W. (Lawrence Winchester), 1908-; Wetherby, Lawrence Winchester, 1908-

Partial Transcript: You, uh--(coughs)--you mentioned raising funds. Could you tell me some more about that?

Segment Synopsis: Gordon talks about who gave donations and how the money was used in Chandler's gubernatorial campaign.

Keywords: Administrations; Campaign finances; Campaign funds; Campaigns; Coal operators; Costs; Donations; Expenses; Federal judges; Fundraisers; Fundraising; Happy Club; Influences; Joe Leary; John Curtly; Joseph Leary; Justin Potter; Justin Smith "Jet" Potter; Laws; Personal donations; Records

Subjects: Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Clements, Earle C. (Earle Chester), 1896-1985; Governors--Election; Political campaigns--Kentucky; Politicians--Kentucky

Partial Transcript: Why did Potter--what interest did he have?

Segment Synopsis: Gordon talks about the death of Potter's young son. He explains Potter's interest in Chandler, especially John Curtly's role in the interest.

Keywords: Banks; Deaths; Friends; Friendships; John Curtly; Justin Potter; Justin Smith "Jet" Potter; Loans; Murder mysteries; Stocks; Suicides; Tragedies

Subjects: Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Children; Governors--Election; Political campaigns--Kentucky; Politicians--Kentucky

Partial Transcript: Now, uh, in all frankness to you, we allowed Potter, uh, to, uh, clear, not to pick, but to clear, uh, the Chief of the Bureau of Mines.

Segment Synopsis: Gordon discusses appointments made by Chandler in his second term as governor. He talks about how the appointments were not sold and were not always politically convenient, like that of Paul Gannon.

Keywords: Agreements; Appointments; Approvals; Bob Watt; Chairman of the Public Service Commission; Chief of Strip Mining Reclamation; Chief of the Bureau of Mines; Coal operators; Friends; Friendships; Hopkins County, Kentucky; Jimmy Fallin; Mine reclamation; Paul Gannon; Pine trees; Professor Bob Watt; Reclamation; Reforestation; Sales

Subjects: Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Democratic Party (Ky.); Governors--Kentucky; Hopkins County (Ky.); Kentucky--Politics and government; Political corruption--Kentucky; State governments--Officials and employees; Waterfield, Harry Lee, 1911-1988

Partial Transcript: Can you give me any idea of the amounts of money that, that these men such as Potter put into the campaign?

Segment Synopsis: Gordon talks about the amount of money raised by Potter and Curtly. He also discusses the attempted donations by gamblers that all of the campaigns refused. Gordon discusses how he did not see corruption in Kentucky politics like many would expect.

Keywords: Administrations; Alcoholics; Bob Murphy; Campaign finances; Campaign funds; Campaigns; Commissioners; Corruption; Donations; Drinking problems; Fundraisers; Fundraising; Gamblers; Influences; Joe Leary; John Curtly; Joseph Leary; Justin Potter; Justin Smith "Jet" Potter; Kentucky Hotel; Propositions; State police; Watterson Hotel

Subjects: Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Clements, Earle C. (Earle Chester), 1896-1985; Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Elections--Corrupt practices; Governors--Election; Political corruption--Kentucky; Waterfield, Harry Lee, 1911-1988

Partial Transcript: Well, Chandler won.

Segment Synopsis: Gordon talks about people he worked with on the Public Service Commission, like Simeon Willis. He discusses how he worked with Chandler while maintaining his independence.

Keywords: Bipartisan; Chairman of Public Service Commission; Chairmen; Commissioners; Duties; Friendships; Governors--Kentucky; Influences; Judges; Leo King; Louis Cox; Patience; Public Service Commission; Public utilities; Relationships; Republican Party (Ky.); Solvency

Subjects: Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Democratic Party (Ky.); Politics and government; State governments--Officials and employees; Wetherby, Lawrence W. (Lawrence Winchester), 1908-; Wetherby, Lawrence Winchester, 1908-; Willis, Simeon S., 1879-1965

Partial Transcript: Now, the problem that he and I broke on was the problem of after he was defeated by--after Waterfield was defeated, he attempted to create a, uh, state merit system by executive order.

Segment Synopsis: Gordon explains why he left the Public Service over a disagreement with Chandler on his proposed merit system. He discusses how he supported Willis by ensuring he had work even after his resignation.

Keywords: Appointees; Commissioners; Confirmations; Discharges; Executive orders; Friendships; Laws; Leo King; Levies; Louis Cox; Merit systems; Officers; Orders; Purposes; Racial slurs; Refusals; Removals; Resignations; Revenues; Spoils system

Subjects: Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Democratic Party (Ky.); Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky. General Assembly. Senate; Law and legislation; Occupations; Willis, Simeon S., 1879-1965

Partial Transcript: What was his, uh, what was his quarrel with Cox?

Segment Synopsis: Gordon discusses Cox's various roles in Kentucky politics and law. He talks about how Chandler had issues with Cox's friends and employers.

Keywords: Chief strategists; Deaths; Friends; Friendships; Law firms; Lawyers; Louis Cox; Relationships; State senators; Strategists; Utilities

Subjects: Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Kentucky. General Assembly. Senate; Occupations; Politicians--Kentucky; Wetherby, Lawrence W. (Lawrence Winchester), 1908-; Wetherby, Lawrence Winchester, 1908-

Partial Transcript: To go back to the, uh, to the '55 campaign, Judge Gordon, I know that there was a considerable amount of the--at that time in some of the newspapers, some of, some of Governor Chandler's dealings or alleged dealings with...

Segment Synopsis: Gordon talks about how he knows of no wrong doing between Chandler and liquor companies despite allegations. He also discusses one case where he found possible corruption and how he reported it to the FEC. Gordon discusses how Chandler reacted to his report to the FEC, his role in Comb's campaign, and their eventual return to friendship.

Keywords: Campaign managers; Campaigns; Chairman of Advisory Committee; Chairmen; Corruption; Defendants; Defenses; Donations; Federal Election Commission (FEC); Friends; Friendships; Indictments; Job offers; Legal fees; Liquor companies; Offenses; Profits; Relationships; Reports; Representations

Subjects: Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Clements, Earle C. (Earle Chester), 1896-1985; Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Elections--Corrupt practices; Governors--Election; Governors--Kentucky; Lieutenant governors--Kentucky; Occupations; Political corruption--Kentucky; Waterfield, Harry Lee, 1911-1988

Partial Transcript: One of the, uh, episodes of Governor Chandler's second administration...

Segment Synopsis: Gordon talks about how Chandler came to the decision to desegregate public schools. He also talks about his role in aiding this process as a lawyer for a school board.

Keywords: AFL-CIO; Ambitions; Brown v. Board of Education; Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka; Coal fields; Compassion; Desegregation; Fanfares; Integration; Joe Leary; Joseph Leary; Law enforcement; Motives; Picket lines; Primadonnas; Public education; Public schools; School boards; Soldiers; The Supreme Court; Underdogs; Unions; United States Marshalls

Subjects: African Americans--Segregation; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Educational change--Kentucky; Educational law and legislation--Kentucky; Picketing.; Politics and government; Protest and social movements; Segregation in education--Kentucky

Partial Transcript: Mr. and Mrs. Ezelle, Sam Ezelle, of whom I have not talked to but I hope to.

Segment Synopsis: Gordon talks about how Chandler regarded organized labor and how he believes that Chandler supported them. Gordon discusses Sam Wiesel who was involved in unions and supported Chandler for governor in 1955.

Keywords: AFL-CIO; Attitudes; Coal companies; Disagreements; Duke Power Company; Labor unions; Lawyers; Legal representation; Motivations; Organized labor; Picket lines; Reactionary; Relationships; Sam Wiesel; Unions; Worker's compensation; Workers compensation

Subjects: Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Coal miners--Labor unions.; Governors--Kentucky; Picketing; Politicians--Kentucky; Politics and government

Partial Transcript: I want to say this for the record too.

Segment Synopsis: Gordon talks about some of the disagreements he had with Chandler over the years and how they resolved them.

Keywords: Candidates; Disagreements; Friends; Friendships; Judges; Relationships; Supporters; Youth

Subjects: African Americans--Segregation; Barkley, Alben William, 1877-1956; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Democratic Party (Ky.); Democratic Party (U.S.); Elections; Governors--Election; Governors--Kentucky; Wetherby, Lawrence W. (Lawrence Winchester), 1908-; Wetherby, Lawrence Winchester, 1908-

Partial Transcript: It is, it is paradoxical to me that a man who supported the Democrats like he did and uh I think had the reputation would long be the governor who put that strong offense into desegregation like he did.

Segment Synopsis: Gordon talks about how Chandler reacted to the Democratic Party's stance toward desegregation as well as Chandler's role as Major League Baseball Commissioner in integrating baseball.

Keywords: Desegregation; Integration; Jackie Robinson; Law and order; Laws; Major League Baseball (MLB); Political gains

Subjects: African American baseball players.; African Americans--Segregation; Baseball commissioners; Baseball players, Black; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Democratic Party (Ky.); Democratic Party (U.S.); Educational change--Kentucky; Educational law and legislation--Kentucky; Law and legislation; Politics and government; Robinson, Jackie, 1919-1972.; Segregation in education--Kentucky

Partial Transcript: Well, let-let me become very general then, Judge Gordon.

Segment Synopsis: Gordon talks about what he believes Chandler should be remembered for as governor.

Keywords: Administrations; Cabinet meetings; Impacts; Infrastructure; Joe Leary; Joseph Leary; Legacies; Policies; Public Service Commission; Public education; Recollections; Road programs

Subjects: Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Governors--Election; Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Political campaigns--Kentucky; State governments--Officials and employees

Partial Transcript: I've picked up rumors of, of kickbacks and those sort of things.

Segment Synopsis: Gordon discusses how he never saw corruption, but heard the rumors.

Keywords: Administrations; Bribery; Bribes; Cabinets; Corruption; Favors; Harry Davis; Harry Lee Waterfield; Honesty; Influences; Installations; John "Frenchy" DeMoisey; John DeMoisey; Kickbacks; Lawyers; Legislators; Rumors; Sore sight for Jimmy Jack; Votes

Subjects: Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Democratic Party (Ky.); Political corruption--Kentucky; State governments--Officials and employees

Partial Transcript: Have you thought of, in the very general sense, of Chandler's, Chandler's role in the history of Kentucky?

Segment Synopsis: Gordon talks about the personal and political importance of Chandler. He discusses Chandler's accomplishments as governor, especially reorganizing the government in his first administration and utilities regulations in his second administration. Gordon discusses Chandler's broken pledges.

Keywords: Administrations; Bell Telephone; Broken promises; Companies; Expenditures; Fairgrounds; Government regulations; Impacts; Infant deaths; Joe Leary; Joseph Leary; Justifications; Keeneland; Legacies; Lies; Organization; Payments; Pledges; Policies; Promises; Public Service Commission; Regulations; Road bonds; Sales taxes; Shiners; Shriners Hospitals for Children Medical Center; Speeches; Tax increases; Taxes; Telephone companies; Toll roads; UK; Utilities; Utility regulations; Whiskey taxes

Subjects: Breathitt, Edward T., 1924-; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Governors--Election; Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Louisville (Ky.); Political campaigns--Kentucky; Politicians; State governments--Officials and employees; Taxation--Law and legislation--Kentucky; University of Kentucky. Medical Center; Wetherby, Lawrence W. (Lawrence Winchester), 1908-; Wetherby, Lawrence Winchester, 1908-

Partial Transcript: So, typical Happy in his campaign.

Segment Synopsis: Gordon discusses the personal loyalty that Chandler inspires and how much Chandler valued loyalty. He discusses how Chandler reacted when he thought someone was being disloyal. Gordon talks about how Chandler's 1955 gubernatorial campaign had a Republican chairman in a Democratic primary.

Keywords: Albert Phillips; Apologies; Appointments; Cabinet officers; Cabinets; Chairmen; Chancellors; Differences; Disagreements; Disloyalty; Followings; Independence; Joe Blow; Joe Leary; Joseph Leary; Laurel (Ky.); London (Ky.); Loyalty; Personal touches; Personalities; Primaries; Reports; Supporters

Subjects: Breathitt, Edward T., 1924-; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Democratic Party (Ky.); Elections; Governors--Election; Political campaigns--Kentucky; Politicians--Kentucky; Press and politics.; Republican Party (Ky.); University of Kentucky. College of Law