Interview with Paul A. Freund, October 18, 1982

Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, University of Kentucky Libraries
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00:00:03 - Association with Justice Stanley Reed

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Partial Transcript: Professor Freund, how did you become associated with Stanley Reed?

Segment Synopsis: Freund discusses how he first came to know Stanley Reed. He discusses how he worked with Reed at the Reconstruction Finance Corporation where they worked on law cases regarding gold bonds.

Keywords: Courts; Gold Clause bonds; Justice Reed; Justice Stanley Reed; New Deal; President Franklin D. Roosevelt; President Franklin Roosevelt; President Roosevelt; Reconstruction Finance Corporation (R.F.C.); Reconstruction Finance Corporation (RFC); Representative Tom Corcoran; Secretary of State Dean Acheson; Solicitor General

Subjects: Acheson, Dean, 1893-1971.; Corcoran, Tom, 1939-; Courts; Law; Reed, Stanley Forman, 1884-1980.; Roosevelt, Franklin D. (Franklin Delano), 1882-1945.

00:04:17 - New Deal

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Partial Transcript: In 1933, after you were with Justice Brandeis, you went to the Treasury for a little bit, as you mentioned.

Segment Synopsis: Freund discusses the New Deal in the 1930s. He says that it was an exciting time and there were many new changes. He says there was a lot of intellectual freedom and new ideas. He describes Stanley Reed as a dedicated worker who was faithful to President Roosevelt. He says that he was open-minded and was open to change.

Keywords: Department of the Treasury; Eugene Black; Eugene Robert Black; Great Depression; Justice Reed; Justice Stanley Reed; Labor Relations Act; New Deal; President Franklin D. Roosevelt; President Franklin Roosevelt; President Roosevelt; Secretary of State Acheson; Secretary of State Dean Acheson

Subjects: Acheson, Dean, 1893-1971.; Black, Eugene R. (Eugene Robert), 1873-1934.; Great Depression; New Deal, 1933-1939.; Reed, Stanley Forman, 1884-1980.; Roosevelt, Franklin D. (Franklin Delano), 1882-1945

00:11:26 - Reed's economic philosophy / Reed's attitude working under President Roosevelt

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Partial Transcript: He's been termed an economic liberal.

Segment Synopsis: Freund discusses Reed's economic philosophy and his reputation as an economic liberal. He says that he fit that mold and followed President Roosevelt's beliefs very closely. He also discusses Reed's attitude while working under Roosevelt. He says that he greatly enjoyed his work even though he overworked himself often. He also says that he worked on many important and landmark cases which characterized the importance of his work.

Keywords: Economic liberals; Great Depression; Justice Reed; Justice Stanley Reed; New Deal; President Franklin D. Roosevelt; President Franklin Roosevelt; President Roosevelt

Subjects: Great Depression; New Deal, 1933-1939.; Reed, Stanley Forman, 1884-1980.; Roosevelt, Franklin D. (Franklin Delano), 1882-1945

00:16:40 - Reconstruction Finance Corporation (RFC)

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Partial Transcript: Let me turn to the R.F.C.; go back a little bit.

Segment Synopsis: Freund discusses Reed's time at the Reconstruction Finance Corporation. He describes Reed's relationship with Jesse Jones and Senator Alben Barkley. He also discusses Reed's responsibilities at the RFC. He oversaw many of the court cases involving banks and railroads. He says that Reed supervised those activities as General Counsel.

Keywords: Economic liberals; Great Depression; Justice Reed; Justice Stanley Reed; New Deal; President Franklin D. Roosevelt; President Franklin Roosevelt; President Roosevelt; Reconstruction Finance Corporation (R.F.C.); Reconstruction Finance Corporation (RFC); Secretary of Commerce Jesse H. Jones; Secretary of Commerce Jesse Jones; Vice President Alben Barkley

Subjects: Barkley, Alben William, 1877-1956; Depressions--1929; Jones, Jesse H. (Jesse Holman), 1874-1956.; New Deal, 1933-1939.; Reed, Stanley Forman, 1884-1980.; Roosevelt, Franklin D. (Franklin Delano), 1882-1945

00:20:33 - Freund's work duties / Specific cases

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Partial Transcript: You mentioned that when you arrived in, in the R.F.C., you spent most of your time with the gold cases.

Segment Synopsis: Freund describes what a typical day working on gold cases for the RFC was like for him. He said that he conducted research and wrote briefs and memoranda of law. He says that he also spent much time consulting with the Treasury Department and the Federal Reserve. He also discusses several specific gold cases and their outcomes. He specifically recalls the case Norman v. B. O. (Baltimore Ohio Railroad Co.), and its result. He also talks about strategies that they implemented during the case as well as the attitudes and tendencies of the Court.

Keywords: Gold; Great Depression; Justice Brandeis; Justice Louis Brandeis; Justice Owen Josephus Roberts; Justice Owen Roberts; Justice Reed; Justice Roberts; Justice Stanley Reed; New Deal; Norman v. B. O. (Baltimore Ohio Railroad Co.); Norman versus B. O. (Baltimore Ohio Railroad Co.); Perry v. United States; President Franklin D. Roosevelt; President Franklin Roosevelt; President Roosevelt; Reconstruction Finance Corporation (R.F.C.); Reconstruction Finance Corporation (RFC); Secretary of State Acheson; Secretary of State Dean Acheson; Supreme Court

Subjects: Acheson, Dean, 1893-1971.; Brandeis, Louis Dembitz, 1856-1941; Courts; Depressions--1929; Law; New Deal, 1933-1939.; Reed, Stanley Forman, 1884-1980.; Roberts, Owen J. (Owen Josephus), 1875-1955.; Roosevelt, Franklin D. (Franklin Delano), 1882-1945; United States. Supreme Court.

00:40:36 - Stanley Reed as Solicitor General

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Partial Transcript: Justice Reed was nominated as Solicitor General in March of 1935.

Segment Synopsis: Freund discusses Stanley Reed's nomination as Solicitor General. He says that Reed had good relations in Congress and was respected in Washington, D.C. He describes working under Reed at the Solicitor General's office after Reed requested him to. He describes what it was like to work under him, as well as Reed's personality and character. He also describes the relationship between Stanley Reed and Homer Cummings, the Attorney General. He also discusses the role of the Solicitor General and Reed's duties and contributions to the Supreme Court.

Keywords: Attorney General; Attorney General Homer Cummings; Great Depression; Justice Reed; Justice Stanley Reed; New Deal; President Franklin D. Roosevelt; President Franklin Roosevelt; President Roosevelt; Solicitor General; Supreme Court; Tennessee Valley Authority

Subjects: Courts; Cummings, Homer S. (Homer Stillé), 1870-1956.; Depressions--1929; Law; New Deal, 1933-1939.; Reed, Stanley Forman, 1884-1980.; Roosevelt, Franklin D. (Franklin Delano), 1882-1945; United States. Solicitor General.; United States. Supreme Court.

00:51:08 - Reed's role and duties as Solicitor General

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Partial Transcript: He, uh, had a role during that period 1935, 1936, `37, in almost every major case that was argued before the Court as far as the government was concerned.

Segment Synopsis: Freund discusses specific cases which Reed argued for, including cases involving the Agricultural Adjustment Act, Tennessee Valley Authority, and other New Deal programs and organizations. He also discusses Reed's role as Solicitor General and his involvement and contributions to the Supreme Court. He tells of Reed's work ethic and character as well.

Keywords: Agricultural Adjustment Act; Great Depression; Justice Reed; Justice Stanley Reed; New Deal; President Franklin D. Roosevelt; President Franklin Roosevelt; President Roosevelt; Solicitor General; Supreme Court; Tennessee Valley Authority

Subjects: Courts; Depressions--1929; Law; New Deal, 1933-1939.; Reed, Stanley Forman, 1884-1980.; Roosevelt, Franklin D. (Franklin Delano), 1882-1945; United States. Solicitor General.; United States. Supreme Court.

01:04:26 - Role working in the Solicitor General's office

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Partial Transcript: How did your, um, function change when you went from, um, the R.F.C. to Solicitor General?

Segment Synopsis: Freund discusses his duties and role in the Solicitors General's office. He says that he served as first assistant to Stanley Reed. He says that he reviewed briefs and petitions.

Keywords: Great Depression; Justice Reed; Justice Stanley Reed; New Deal; President Franklin D. Roosevelt; President Franklin Roosevelt; President Roosevelt; Solicitor General; Supreme Court

Subjects: Courts; Depressions--1929; Law; New Deal, 1933-1939.; Reed, Stanley Forman, 1884-1980.; Roosevelt, Franklin D. (Franklin Delano), 1882-1945; United States. Solicitor General.; United States. Supreme Court.

01:07:15 - Reed's thoughts on the Supreme Court

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Partial Transcript: One of the things in an earlier interview with Stanley Reed--well, the only interview we've had with him, uh, years ago now...

Segment Synopsis: Freund discusses Stanley Reed's relationship with the Supreme Court and his opinions on it, specifically on court reorganization. He says that Reed stayed out of the court controversies and he generally followed directions and supported his superiors. He describes the debate whether or not to expand the court and limit the age for justices. He also discusses Reed's thoughts on changes in the court, including the addition of Hugo Black.

Keywords: Attorney General; Attorney General Homer Cummings; Carl McFarland; Great Depression; Justice Black; Justice Hugo Black; Justice Hugo Lafayette Black; Justice James Clark McReynolds; Justice James McReynolds; Justice McReynolds; Justice Reed; Justice Stanley Reed; New Deal; President Franklin D. Roosevelt; President Franklin Roosevelt; President Roosevelt; Solicitor General; Supreme Court

Subjects: Black, Hugo LaFayette, 1886-1971.; Courts; Cummings, Homer S. (Homer Stillé), 1870-1956.; Depressions--1929; Law; McReynolds, James Clark, 1862-1946.; New Deal, 1933-1939.; Reed, Stanley Forman, 1884-1980.; Roosevelt, Franklin D. (Franklin Delano), 1882-1945; United States. Solicitor General.; United States. Supreme Court.

01:16:38 - Reed's appointment to the Supreme Court

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Partial Transcript: Did you have an inkling, or did he have an inkling, that he might be next?

Segment Synopsis: Freund discusses Stanley Reed's nomination to the Supreme Court. He discusses Roosevelt's motivations for nominating Reed and whether or not he was the best person for the job. He says that Reed was well respected and seen as a professional, so he was welcomed on the court. He says that once Reed went to the Supreme Court, he stayed in the Solicitor General's office before going on to the Attorney General's office.

Keywords: Great Depression; Justice Jackson; Justice Reed; Justice Robert H. Jackson; Justice Robert Jackson; Justice Stanley Reed; New Deal; President Franklin D. Roosevelt; President Franklin Roosevelt; President Roosevelt; Solicitor General; Supreme Court

Subjects: Courts; Depressions--1929; Jackson, Robert H., 1892-1954.; Law; New Deal, 1933-1939.; Reed, Stanley Forman, 1884-1980.; Roosevelt, Franklin D. (Franklin Delano), 1882-1945; United States. Solicitor General.; United States. Supreme Court.

01:25:15 - Stanley Reed on the Supreme Court

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Partial Transcript: Um, what I'd like to do now is, is to just talk a little bit about Stanley Reed on the Supreme Court, um, without really delving in too heavily into, in, into a lot of case law.

Segment Synopsis: Freund discusses Reed's time as a Supreme Court Justice. He discusses Reed's qualities and attributes, as well as his views and judicial philosophy. He also discusses Reed's relationships with other court members, including Chief Justice Hughes and Justice Stone. He discusses Reed's views on executive power, judicial restraint, organized labor, and civil rights. He also discusses Reed's views and involvement in Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka.

Keywords: Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka; Brown vs. Board of Education of Topeka; Chief Justice Charles Hughes; Chief Justice Earl Warren; Chief Justice Hughes; Chief Justice Warren; Great Depression; Justice Fred Vinson; Justice Harlan Fiske Stone; Justice Harlan Stone; Justice Reed; Justice Stanley Reed; Justice Stone; Justice Vinson; New Deal; President Franklin D. Roosevelt; President Franklin Roosevelt; President Roosevelt; Supreme Court

Subjects: Courts; Depressions--1929; Law; New Deal, 1933-1939.; Reed, Stanley Forman, 1884-1980.; Roosevelt, Franklin D. (Franklin Delano), 1882-1945; United States. Solicitor General.; United States. Supreme Court.; Vinson, Fred M., 1890-1953; Warren, Earl, 1891-1974.

01:47:14 - Closing remarks

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Partial Transcript: You've mentioned this in various ways before, um, but I'd like to ask it as a total question.

Segment Synopsis: Freund makes a comment on Reed's background before making his closing remarks.

Keywords: Farms; Great Depression; Justice Reed; Justice Stanley Reed; Kentucky; Maysville (Ky.); New Deal; Supreme Court

Subjects: Courts; Depressions--1929; Farms; Kentucky; Law; New Deal, 1933-1939; Reed, Stanley Forman, 1884-1980.; United States. Supreme Court.