Interview with Wheeler Everett Stinson, July 18, 1986

Partial Transcript: Okay, Mr. Stinson, could you tell me when... your, your first...

Segment Synopsis: Stinson discusses how he started out in the moonshine whiskey business in the early 1940's. He talks about how much whiskey he typically sold per batch and how scarcity of supplies during World War II made him need to purchase sugar through the black market.

Subjects: Distilleries.; Distilling, illicit.; Whiskey industry--Kentucky.; Whiskey.

Partial Transcript: Well did you, uh... did you sell it to, uh, the consumer, or did...

Segment Synopsis: Stinson states that he generally sold his whiskey wholesale and gives his reasons why. He also talks about how financial hardship often compelled him to make whiskey, since it was a fairly quick way to make money.

Keywords: basements; bootleggers; bootlegging; consumers; economic value; finances; hard work; income; malt corn; military service; money; seasons; selling moonshine whiskey; summers; warmth; wholesalers; winters

Subjects: Distilling, illicit.; Whiskey.

Partial Transcript: Let me interrupt. Would this be a good time to start... uh, see, uh...

Segment Synopsis: Stinson describes what is needed to assemble a still, including the materials and their cost.

Keywords: Crawford (Tenn.); P.G. Crooks Hardware; alcohol; barrels; choosing a location; cold water; copper; copper cap; cost; cover outfit; equipment; hardware stores; making whiskey; moonshine; parts; steam; stills; thump kegs; water; wooden barrels; work; worm (whiskey making)

Subjects: Distilleries.; Distilling, illicit.; Whiskey industry--Kentucky.; Whiskey.

Partial Transcript: Well after, uh, say, uh... you've got your still assembled now, and, uh...

Segment Synopsis: Stinson continues to talk about how the seasons affect the quality of the whiskey that is made. He also talks about using plastic and glass bottles to store the whiskey and shares why he prefers plastic.

Keywords: autumn; bottles; gallons; glass; jugs; runs; seasons; selling whiskey; spring; stills

Subjects: Distilleries.; Distilling, illicit.; Whiskey industry--Kentucky.

Partial Transcript: Did, did you ever, uh, sell any to people that used the... the... what-- tanks? Is that...

Segment Synopsis: Stinson discusses some of the ways that people have modified their vehicles to be able to secretly transport moonshine. He states that most of his clients did not use such elaborate methods of hiding it. He also talks about the hard labor involved in making whiskey, especially in hauling it to the vehicle.

Keywords: barrels; bootleggers; boxes; carrying whiskey; cars; containers; dealers; gallons; log trucks; plastic containers; rum runners; stills; vehicles; weight

Subjects: Distilleries.; Distilling, illicit.; Wayne County (Ky.).

Partial Transcript: Where, uh, Mr. Stinson, did most of the, uh... just keep that one, I think...

Segment Synopsis: Stinson talks about his reputation for making good whiskey. He mentions that he has sold it to people in many other states and several other countries. He discusses Tennessee whiskey, which he characterizes as being of lower quality, and weighs in on the danger of getting lead poisoning from badly made whiskey.

Keywords: Africa; California; Germany; Indiana; Michigan; Ohio; Tennessee; Wisconsin; distribution of whiskey; high quality whiskey; hippies; lead poisoning; metal; moonshine; selling whiskey

Subjects: Wayne County (Ky.).; Whiskey.

Partial Transcript: How, how far would you go back into the woods or the mountains to...

Segment Synopsis: Stinson describes the remote location of his still, which he brought everything to and from on foot.

Keywords: "Carved into Rock House Holler"; "Long Cliff" (??); Dry Holler; carrying things on foot; hills; hollers; hollows; mountains; roads; stills; vehicles; woods

Subjects: Distilleries.; Wayne County (Ky.).

Partial Transcript: What sort of conveyance would you, would you rig up to carry it back out... with?

Segment Synopsis: Stinson talks about how he transported his whiskey from the still in burlap bags. He stresses the amount of work that it took to do so.

Keywords: boxes; burlap sacks; cardboard; carrying whiskey; gallons; glass jars; moonshine

Subjects: Distilleries.; Distilling, illicit.; Wayne County (Ky.).; Whiskey.

Partial Transcript: Uh, I started in the law profession in, in the early '50's, when I came out of the service from...

Segment Synopsis: Russell Stockton, who is one of the interviewers, discusses his own connection to Stinson as a lawyer and as someone who has worked on Kentucky's Alcohol Beverage Control Board.

Subjects: Distilleries--Law and legislation.; Distilleries.; Distilling, illicit.; Kentucky. Dept. of Alcoholic Beverage Control.; Liquor laws.

Partial Transcript: Did you ever have any qualms... you said you, uh...

Segment Synopsis: Stockton and Stinson talk about the adversarial relationship that they had and why neither of them blamed each other for their roles. They talk about an incident in which Stockton thought that he had nearly caught Stinson. Stinson says that that must have been someone else.

Keywords: being caught; breaking the law; illegally-made alcohol; laws; moonshine; poverty; qualms; revenuers; supplementing income; trustworthiness; truthfulness

Subjects: Distilleries--Law and legislation.; Law enforcement.; Liquor laws.

Partial Transcript: Well then, those were the only two times that you were...

Segment Synopsis: Stinson talks about some of the precautions that he took not to be caught by the revenuers. Stockton shares his experience in catching moonshiners.

Subjects: Distilling, illicit.; Law enforcement.

Partial Transcript: And that's... that's been a lot of years, just to get him twice, hasn't it?

Segment Synopsis: Stinson and Stockton both discuss being near retirement and what they plan to do after that time. Stinson also talks about moving his still to avoid detection.

Keywords: getting caught; luck; old age; retirement; stills

Subjects: Distilleries.; Law enforcement.

Partial Transcript: Well, what you'd often find is empty... operation?

Segment Synopsis: Stockton tells how he would often find old, abandoned stills when he was trying to find the moonshiners. Stinson shares the way that he found enough running water to be able to operate a still successfully.

Keywords: "flake stand"; cold water; cooling; digging; evading the law; finding water; malt corn; marshes; moving stills; old still sites; springs; stills; streams; water; water weeds; worm (whiskey making)

Subjects: Distilleries.; Distilling, illicit.; Law enforcement.; Whiskey.

Partial Transcript: Now, now, what, what's a flake stand?

Segment Synopsis: Stinson clarifies what a flake stand is and how it is used in distilling whiskey. He also talks about the natural vegetation found in the mountains. He compares different woods by their ability to generate heat without giving off too much smoke.

Keywords: "flake stand"; chestnut trees; concealment; dogwood; furnaces; greenery; heat; hollers; hollows; ivy; maple; moonshine; mountains; plants; ridges; smoke; vegetation; water; wood; worm (whiskey making)

Subjects: Distilleries.; Distilling, Illicit.; Whiskey.

Partial Transcript: Then you really had to... track Mr. Stinson to get him. You didn't see much of his smoke.

Segment Synopsis: Stockton discusses why the smell of smoke was often an indicator of an illegal still hidden in the mountains. Stinson also weighs in, recounting several instances in which he was able to smell smoke from miles away.

Keywords: "Carved in the Rock House Holler" (??); Dry Holler; burning wood; cousins; deer hunting; firewood; moonshine; nephews; odor; smoke; weather; wind; wind direction

Subjects: Distilleries.; Distilling, illicit.; Whiskey.

Partial Transcript: Uh, we talked about the winter operation being... the work goes in...

Segment Synopsis: Stinson discusses some of the difficulties of making whiskey in the winter, due to the necessity of keeping it warm. He shares how he managed to do so.

Keywords: alcohol; barrels; basements; caves; fences; heat; insulation; leaves; logs; malt; stills; warmth; winter

Subjects: Distilleries.; Distilling, illicit.; Whiskey.

Partial Transcript: Uh... Wheeler, in, uh... what could the... what would be the most... per barrel...

Segment Synopsis: Stinson stresses the importance of making sure that the still was air tight, since the alcohol would escape as steam otherwise. He also recounts several times that his still exploded.

Keywords: air-tightness; alcohol; backings (whiskey making); barrels; batches of whiskey; danger; explosions; fire; gallons; proof; runs; steam; thump keg; weather

Subjects: Distilleries.; Distilling, illicit.; Whiskey.

Partial Transcript: See the paste... that you used... is a mixture of, of, flour and water...

Segment Synopsis: Stinson shares how he used a mixture of flour and water to make his still airtight. He also talks about the difficulty of getting sugar early on in World War II and describes the substitutes that were used to make moonshine.

Keywords: World War II; alcohol; all purpose flour; barrels; black market; cap; cement; flour; heat; humor; molasses; moonshine; paste; ration stamps; rationing; seals; self rising flour; sorghum; stamps; sugar; syrup; thump keg; water; worm (whiskey making)

Subjects: Distilling, illicit.; Whiskey. Wayne County (Ky.)

Partial Transcript: And we's working on a big rock house under the cleft.

Segment Synopsis: Stinson shares a story about some hogs getting into the barrels of moonshine that he and his friend had made.

Keywords: Dry Holler; alcohol; barrels; brothers; hogs; money; revenuers; stills; waking up

Subjects: Distilleries.; Whiskey.

Partial Transcript: Well you sort of had a code of silence... then. Everybody protected...

Segment Synopsis: Stinson describes some of the signals that were used to warn the moonshiners that the revenuers were coming. He tells a story about trying to warn some of his friends, though it was too late for them to be able to escape.

Keywords: Joe Burney (??); anvils; automatic weapons; code of silence; communities; cutting wood; dinner bells; guns; gunshots; hollers; hollows; moonshiners; nephews; nieces; school; sheriffs; shotguns; signals; sounds; stills; trapping; traps; valleys; warnings

Subjects: Distilling, illicit.; Law enforcement.

Partial Transcript: Is there any areas, Russ, that you can think of that we haven't covered?

Segment Synopsis: Stockton discusses the difficulty of making moonshine whiskey and some of the dangers associated with it. Stinson also shares some ways of knowing if the still is going to explode.

Keywords: amateur distilling; art forms; cap; danger; difficulty; explosions; fire; making moonshine; mash; moonshine; stills; sulfur water; thump keg; worm (whiskey making)

Subjects: Distilleries.; Distilling, illicit.; Whiskey.

Partial Transcript: One, one thing I wanted to ask you about... um, may-- maybe a little naive question, but, uh...

Segment Synopsis: Stinson describes in detail the amounts of different ingredients that he used to make whiskey, as well as the process of making it.

Keywords: "cooking it in"; "sweet mash"; alcohol making; backings (whiskey making); barrels; beer; corn; corn meal; distilling; grain alcohol; ingredients; mash; metal drums; moonshine; souring; stills; stirring stick; sugar; sweetness; thump keg; water

Subjects: Distilleries.; Whiskey industry--Kentucky.; Whiskey.

Partial Transcript: It's a lot easier to use sugar than molasses then.

Segment Synopsis: Stinson mentions that he has also made brandy and wine, in addition to moonshine whiskey. He describes the process of making malt corn.

Keywords: "root sprouts"; brandy; cold water; feed corn; fermentation; fruit; grain; malt corn; molasses; shelling corn; sprouts; starch; stills; sugar; warm water; wine

Subjects: Distilleries.

Partial Transcript: And you have to be ready when it is.

Segment Synopsis: Stinson continues to talk about the vapor generated by malt corn and how it is condensed into alcohol. He also tells a story about making whiskey with his father, illustrating some of the hazards involved in making it.

Keywords: alcohol; burns; cans; fathers; fires; gas; malt corn; steam; vapors; worm (whiskey making)

Subjects: Distilleries.; Distilling, illicit.; Whiskey.

Partial Transcript: He's talking about the bead... that, uh, for the ones that not familiar...

Segment Synopsis: Stinson and Stockton describe how one can estimate an alcohol's proof through the "beading" method.

Keywords: bead; bubbles; evaporation; fruit jars; gallons; mash; mixing; proof; water

Subjects: Distilling, illicit.; Whiskey.

Partial Transcript: Yeah, I've, I've got one of them things....

Segment Synopsis: Stinson talks about a friend who sometimes visited him to buy some moonshine. He talks about the last time that he came and an excursion that they took together.

Keywords: Bertram; George Blevins (??); Indianapolis (Ind.); Monticello (Ky.); driving; friends; moonshine; pine trees; recipes; reunions; thermometers

Subjects: Distilleries.; Whiskey.

Partial Transcript: Do, do you think that... the art is... is almost gone?

Segment Synopsis: Stinson talks about how moonshine making has changed and why he thinks that it is a dying art. Stockton tells a story about catching a couple of moonshiners in the act. The interview is concluded.

Keywords: "rock house"; canning; chestnut poles; escapes; family; honesty; moonshine; moonshiners; police officers; revenuers; running; stills; stories; sugar; the art of making whiskey; women; young people

Subjects: Distilleries.; Distilling, illicit.; Whiskey.