Interview with Wheeler Everett Stinson, August 8, 1986

Partial Transcript: Okay, Mr. Stinson, what I thought we'd... talk about today between you and... Mr. Stockton...

Segment Synopsis: In this second interview, Stinson describes some of the methods that he used to keep his still hidden from law enforcement. He also mentions other people who found his still and drank his moonshine.

Keywords: evasion; footprints; moonshine; moonshiners; revenuers; roads; signs; smoke; stills; tracking; woods

Subjects: Distilleries.; Distilling, illicit.; Law enforcement.; Liquor laws.

Partial Transcript: Well this is something, Mr. Stockton. On the earlier tape that we were listening to...

Segment Synopsis: Russell Stockton comments on methods that law enforcement used to track down moonshiners. He also talks about how difficult it was to capture Stinson or find his still because he was an experienced woodsman.
[There are several times when the recording cuts out briefly]

Keywords: complaints; informants; leaves; moonshine; moss; mothers; mountains; paths; police; police officers; roads; rocks; squirrels; stills; tracks; water

Subjects: Distilleries.; Distilling, illicit.; Law enforcement.

Partial Transcript: Okay... Mr. Stinson, can you come back and reply to that?

Segment Synopsis: Stinson and Stockton describe one of the times that Stinson was caught by the law. Stockton tells how he and several other agents camped out to try to catch him and how they were able to creep up on him.

Keywords: 1978; FBI; Federal Bureau of Investigations; captures; corn; cousins; dogs; hiding; moonshine; mountains; runs; stealth; stills; tobacco; tracking; whiskey; woodland tracking

Subjects: Distilleries.; Distilling, illicit.; Law enforcement.

Partial Transcript: Did you often keep dogs at your location?

Segment Synopsis: Stinson and Stockton continue to recount how Stinson was caught by law enforcement. Stinson stresses that he was caught because he didn't know the guard dog that he was with.

Keywords: arrests; birds; crows; dogs; exits; guns; moonshine; police officers; squirrels; stills; tracking; whiskey; woods

Subjects: Distilleries.; Distilling, illicit.; Law enforcement.

Partial Transcript: Okay. That was the... first time, right?

Segment Synopsis: Stinson describes the second time that he was caught due to someone informing on him. Stockton talks about informants' importance to the police and gives his reasons for never sharing an informant's identity.

Keywords: Tennessee; being tipped off; buying whiskey; drinking; hiding; informants; information; moonshine; motivations; police officers; secrecy; stills

Subjects: Distilleries.; Distilling, illicit.; Informers.; Law enforcement.; Whiskey.

Partial Transcript: Okay. There we are. I guess something slipped.

Segment Synopsis: Stinson gives his feelings on people who have informed on him, stating that he has never caused harm to anyone by making moonshine. He discusses several encounters with people that he thought had informed on him and gives his reasons for suspecting them.

Keywords: Tennessee; being caught; carelessness; cars; informants; moonshine; trouble; warrants; whiskey

Subjects: Clinton County (Ky.).; Informers.; Law enforcement.

Partial Transcript: Well, in other words, he sort of violated the, uh, code between the seller and the buyer.

Segment Synopsis: Stinson continues to give his views on informants. Stockton talks about some of the situations in which he hasn't felt comfortable using the information provided by informants.

Keywords: buying; grudges; hearsay; impartiality; informants; lawbreaking; partiality; police officers; qualms; revenge; rumors; selling whiskey

Subjects: Distilling, illicit.; Informers.; Law enforcement.

Partial Transcript: Well Mr. Stinson, I think you were... remarked in, uh, one of our earlier interviews...

Segment Synopsis: Stinson states that many of the people who have informed on him have been his relations. He talks about the kind things that he has done for them and describes some of the reasons that he thinks made them do so.

Keywords: family members; four wheel drive; generosity; informants; information; jealousy; money; relations; roads; smuggling whiskey; traffic

Subjects: Informers.; Law enforcement.; Whiskey.

Partial Transcript: We were talking of earlier about, um, oh I guess for the want of a better term...

Segment Synopsis: Stinson mentions that he had heard of other moonshiners having their stills stolen from or sabotaged, though he did not experience it himself.
[There is a short break in the tape]

Keywords: alcohol; sabotage; salt; stills; theft

Subjects: Distilling, illicit.; Whiskey.

Partial Transcript: Well did this make your... job, Mr. Stockton easier or more difficult?

Segment Synopsis: Stockton gives his thoughts on people who steal from moonshiners.

Keywords: "honor among thieves"; criminals; stills; theft

Subjects: Distilling, illicit.; Theft.; Whiskey.

Partial Transcript: In, in my view, stealing is stealing, I don't care what it is.

Segment Synopsis: Stinson gives his views on theft and tells a story about having a large amount of whiskey stolen from him. He talks about how he tracked down the person who did it and his confronting him.

Subjects: Distilling, illicit.; Theft.; Whiskey.

Partial Transcript: Well, I'd say you showed remarkable...

Segment Synopsis: Stinson gives his thoughts on the importance of honesty and making an honest living, as opposed to theft. Stockton talks about some of the different circumstances that might come up within law enforcement and the importance of fairness and impartiality.

Keywords: arrests; circumstances; court; crime; drunkenness; equality; fairness; ginseng; honesty; impartiality; juries; jurors; police officers; proof

Subjects: Law enforcement.; Theft.; Whiskey.

Partial Transcript: You, uh, were talking earlier, Mr. Stinson, before we, um...

Segment Synopsis: Stinson talks about when he has come across patches of marijuana while he was out hunting in the mountains. He states why he has always left it alone when he found it and discusses why getting involved with it could be dangerous.

Keywords: drugs; ginseng; growing marijuana; hunting; hunting licenses; marijuana; murder; police officers; safety; sports; squirrel hunting; tobacco

Subjects: Marijuana--Growth.; Theft.; Whiskey.

Partial Transcript: Do you... often think, Mr. Stockton that that may be one of the reasons for the uh...

Segment Synopsis: Stinson and Stockton talk about the rise of growing marijuana in the mountains and why it has caused moonshine-making to decrease. They contrast moonshiners with modern marijuana growers.

Keywords: "dope fiends"; "dope"; cocaine; drugs; hunting; marijuana plants; moonshine; moonshiners; plants

Subjects: Law enforcement.; Marijuana--Growth.; Theft.

Partial Transcript: If I could change the subject just a little bit, if I may?

Segment Synopsis: Stockton tells a story about how he and other revenuers nearly caught three moonshiners. Stinson and Stockton try to figure out who the moonshiners might have been.

Keywords: "Carved in the Rock House Holler"; Slavey (??) family; cigarettes; clefts; cliffs; escapes; lookouts; moonshine; police officers; pots; revenuers; rope; stills; suspects; wood

Subjects: Distilleries.; Distilling, illicit.; Law enforcement.

Partial Transcript: ... and Old Man Jess (??)

Segment Synopsis: Stinson talks about Jess Slavey (??), a fellow moonshiner who was rarely caught by the revenuers. He tells a story about Slavey and how he was eventually caught.

Keywords: "slippery rock"; Jess Slavey (??); Kentucky; Kentucky Route 200; Tennessee; age; church; churchgoers; cleft house; hollers; hollows; moonshiners; old age; roads; springs; stills; tracking

Subjects: Distilleries.; Distilling, illicit.; Law enforcement.

Partial Transcript: Were you the one that was--

Segment Synopsis: Stockton comments on his tracking of Jess Slavey (??), even though he was never able to catch him. Stinson tells a story about Slavey's (??) nearly being caught and how he escaped.

Keywords: Jess Slavey (??); Johnny; escaping; mud; rain; shadowing; stills; tracking; woods

Subjects: Distilleries.; Law enforcement.

Partial Transcript: Uh, I might have told you, the biggest... still that I ever got in this country...

Segment Synopsis: Stockton talks about the largest moonshine still that he ever came across in the area and how he and other police officers captured it.
[there is a short break in the tape]

Keywords: January; barrels; clefts; cliffs; cooking; cranks; eggs; fires; maps; police officers; posts; potatoes; ropes; smoke; stills; wells; windlasses

Subjects: Distilleries.; Law enforcement.

Partial Transcript: Although I've, I've run into uh, a larger operation. There was nobody there...

Segment Synopsis: Stockton describes an even larger still that he came across, but there was no one there at the time and it had mostly been cleared out. Stinson discusses someone he knew who was caught by law enforcement and shares how they caught him.

Keywords: Tennessee; copper; moonshine; oil tanks; stills; welding

Subjects: Distilleries.; Distilling, illicit.; Whiskey.

Partial Transcript: You mentioned a while ago the, um... you didn't um, certain defendant...

Segment Synopsis: Stinson and Stockton talk about the courts and the judges in the days when making moonshine was at its height. They both characterize the sentences given then as being fair.

Keywords: Hiram Church Ford; Judge Ford; attorneys; bootleggers; court; court actions; court appearances; court system; defendants; fairness; honesty; judges; leniency; money; moonshine; moonshiners

Subjects: Law enforcement.; Liquor laws.; Whiskey.

Partial Transcript: One thing... one of the old time attorneys told me, and I consider him a very good friend...

Segment Synopsis: Stockton recounts some advice that a friend of his gave him regarding his behavior towards the people that he arrested. He also talks about his inexperience and lack of training as a police officer at the beginning of his career.

Keywords: Randall Bertram; advice; anger; arrests; badges; guns; inexperience; law; lawyers; police officers

Subjects: Law enforcement.

Partial Transcript: Well, that must be true, because of the relationship that you and Mr. Stinson... have.

Segment Synopsis: Stinson talks about what he thinks of law enforcement officials and why he doesn't hold a grudge against them. He talks about teenage drinking and recounts finding out that someone had been watering down his whiskey to try to resell it for more of a profit.
[there is some background noise that sounds like cars going by]

Keywords: Monticello (Ky.); alcohol; arrests; cocaine; drugs; family; fines; guilt; honesty; laws; marijuana; prison; proof; relationships; stills; teenagers; underage drinking; water; watering down

Subjects: Distilleries.; Law enforcement.; Monticello (Ky.).; Whiskey.

Partial Transcript: I, I, I, I, tested that... that we got down here, and, uh, if I ain't mistaken, it runs...

Segment Synopsis: Stinson talks about the process of tempering whiskey. He mentions that one can get drunk from the fumes if around them for long enough.

Keywords: alcohol; backings (whiskey making); bead; beading; drunkenness; fumes; grain; high proof alcohol; jars; mixing alcohol; proof; stills; taste; tempering; water

Subjects: Distilling, illicit.; Whiskey.

Partial Transcript: ...That stuff, I'll tell you what. I had a nephew once.

Segment Synopsis: Stinson talks about his nephew, who had an extremely high tolerance for alcohol. He and Stockton also discuss backings, which are the low grade remnants of a batch of whiskey used to help start the next batch.
[the recording is obscured in places by the sound of a car going by]

Keywords: alcohol; alcohol tolerance; backings (whiskey making); beer; drinking; drunkenness; low grade alcohol; moonshine; nephews; wood

Subjects: Distilling, illicit.; Whiskey.

Partial Transcript: Oh yeah. Talk about Mr. Lester, back in his, uh, well, in his old days...

Segment Synopsis: Stinson talks about Mr. Lester, a local coppersmith who made stills for the moonshiners. He discusses the process of making a still. The interview is concluded.

Keywords: Mr. Lester; Tennessee; copper; copper sheets; coppersmiths; houses; making stills; measurements; stills; tools

Subjects: Distilleries.; Distilling, illicit.