Interview with Thomas D. Clark, November 15, 1984

Partial Transcript: This is Professor Charles P. Roland of the University of Kentucky History Department.

Segment Synopsis: Clark describes the state of Kentucky politics leading up to Chandler's election as governor. He notes the governorship of Ruby Laffoon. He discusses Chandler's role as lieutenant governor. In particular, Clark notes the role of taxes in the state leading to several issues. Clark also notes the state of the University of Kentucky in the 1930s, with the construction of the King library. It was during this period that Chandler acted as acting governor and instituted the special session and enacted the primary law.

Keywords: 1931 Kentucky governor; Chandler as lieutenant governor; Estate taxes; Kentucky Democrats; Kentucky governor's election 1931; Kentucky politics; Kentucky primary law; Lieutenant Governor Chandler; Margaret I. King Library; Salary cuts; Sales taxes; Sonny Boy (Song); Thomas Rhea; University of Kentucky faculty

Subjects: Brown, John Young, 1900-1985; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991.; Clark, Thomas Dionysius, 1903-2005; Clements, Earle C. (Earle Chester), 1896-1985; Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Donovan, Herman Lee, 1887-1964; Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Laffoon, Ruby, 1869-1941; Law and legislation; New Deal, 1933-1939; Roland, Charles Pierce, 1918-; Sampson, Flem D., 1875-1967; State governments; State governments--Officials and employees

Partial Transcript: You feel that the enactment of the primary law was bad?

Segment Synopsis: Clark describes Chandler's election to governor shortly after passing the primary law. He notes the issues that helped get Chandler elected. He also discusses the expectations some had for Chandler's term. He begins to discuss what made Chandler's first two years successful, crediting the people Chandler surrounded himself with.

Keywords: "Bud" Cochran; Chandler first administration; Cochran, Lewis W., 1915-; Governor Chandler; Kentucky Primary Law; Lexington Leader; Opposition to sales tax; Special Session

Subjects: Brown, John Young, 1900-1985; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991.; Clark, Thomas Dionysius, 1903-2005; Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Laffoon, Ruby, 1869-1941; Law and legislation; Martin, James Walter, 1893-1990; New Deal, 1933-1939; Roland, Charles Pierce, 1918-; State governments; State governments--Officials and employees

Partial Transcript: You see in there the breaking of an old Kentucky, rigid, political system. You saw in there the breaking of a, a pattern of state government.

Segment Synopsis: Clark discusses the changes to the Kentucky state government the Reorganization Act of 1936 caused. He notes how it changed the traditional systems that had been governing Kentucky for decades. He also addresses some concerns that he wished were addressed in the Reorganization Act. He credits the Act with modernizing Kentucky and bringing it in line with the New Deal era.

Keywords: 1952 revision; Ben Johnson; Chandler first administration; Dan Talbott; Governor Chandler; Jim Richmond; Kentucky constitutional amendments; Kentucky modernization; Kentucky reforms; Kentucky state government reforms; Local favoritism; Modernization; New Deal reforms; Political reforms; Reorganization Acts of 1936; Ruby Laffoon

Subjects: Brown, John Young, 1900-1985; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991.; Clark, Thomas Dionysius, 1903-2005; Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Law and legislation; Martin, James Walter, 1893-1990; New Deal, 1933-1939; Roland, Charles Pierce, 1918-; State governments; State governments--Officials and employees

Partial Transcript: Now, if Happy Chandler had continued throughout his four years as governor, as he went that first two years, he would stand out easily as one of the best governors Kentucky ever had.

Segment Synopsis: Clark laments that Chandler's successes in reforming Kentucky did not continue due to Chandler's focus on becoming a senator. He notes this ended Chandler's period of reform-mindedness. Clark discusses many of the mistakes Chandler made during his term as governor to try to be elected senator, such as forcing himself into a car with President Franklin Roosevelt and sitting senator Alben Barkley for the purpose of looking close to the president. Clark notes that Chandler always had trouble fitting in with the establishment and tended to earn the ire of the establishment Democratic Party in Kentucky.

Keywords: 1938 Senatorial race; Ambitions; Chandler first administration; Chandler first term; Governor Chandler; Herman Lee Donovan; Thomas Rhea

Subjects: Barkley, Alben William 1877-1956.; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991.; Clark, Thomas Dionysius, 1903-2005; Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Law and legislation; Martin, James Walter, 1893-1990; New Deal, 1933-1939; Roland, Charles Pierce, 1918-; Roosevelt, Franklin D. (Franklin Delano), 1882-1945.; State governments; State governments--Officials and employees; Thurmond, Strom, 1902-2003.; Underwood, Tom R. (Tom Rust), 1898-1956

Partial Transcript: Tom, in that Senatorial race of '38, when, uh, Chandler ran against, uh, Barkley and of course was decisively beaten, uh, I, I have, uh, been told by many people that that was, uh--turned into a ruthless use of state power by Chandler and of federal patronage by Barkley.

Segment Synopsis: Clark discusses Chandler's senatorial primary run against Alben Barkley. He notes how both used their positions as governor and senator to help garner votes through patronage and funding promises. Clark also discusses the impact of the primary on the University of Kentucky, as President Frank McVey addressed Eleanor Roosevelt during a Democratic Party dedication. He also credits Chandler with a love of history, in saving records from being lost. Clark also complains about Kentucky politics, noting how little support the University receives from the state government, as well as how the custom was for major donors to contribute to both candidates in an election.

Keywords: 1938 Kentucky Democratic senate primary; 1938 Senate race; Kentucky Democrats; Political patronage; United Mine Workers; Works Progress Administration (WPA)

Subjects: Barkley, Alben William 1877-1956.; Brown, John Young, 1900-1985; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991.; Clark, Thomas Dionysius, 1903-2005; Donovan, Herman Lee, 1887-1964; Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Laffoon, Ruby, 1869-1941; Law and legislation; Martin, James Walter, 1893-1990; McVey, Frank LeRond, 1869-1953; New Deal, 1933-1939; Roland, Charles Pierce, 1918-; Roosevelt, Franklin D. (Franklin Delano), 1882-1945.; State governments; State governments--Officials and employees

Partial Transcript: Well, of course, Happy lost, uh, in the Senate race against Barkley, but he got to the Senate anyway.

Segment Synopsis: Clark discusses rumors and gossip he has heard about the 1938 Democratic senatorial primary. He notes Happy Chandler's reaction to finding out about the sudden death of Senator Marvel Mills Logan. He also discusses the attacks Chandler made on Barkley for his daughters' marriages to men outside of Kentucky. Clark ultimately considers that Chandler lost the election because of Barkley's support for the New Deal.

Keywords: 1938 Senate primary; Kentucky Democratic primary; Kentucky Democrats; Political accusations; Political rumors

Subjects: Barkley, Alben William 1877-1956.; Brown, John Young, 1900-1985; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991.; Clark, Thomas Dionysius, 1903-2005; Clements, Earle C. (Earle Chester), 1896-1985; Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Donovan, Herman Lee, 1887-1964; Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Laffoon, Ruby, 1869-1941; Law and legislation; Logan, M. M. (Marvel Mills), 1874-1939; Martin, James Walter, 1893-1990; New Deal, 1933-1939; Roland, Charles Pierce, 1918-; Roosevelt, Franklin D. (Franklin Delano), 1882-1945.; Sampson, Flem D., 1875-1967; State governments; State governments--Officials and employees; Thurmond, Strom, 1902-2003.

Partial Transcript: Uh, Happy, uh, uh, believes that an attempt was made to poison him.

Segment Synopsis: Clark addresses the accusations Chandler leveled against Barkley that he was trying to poison Chandler. He notes how few believed the accusation at the time. Roland posits that Barkley was genuinely sick and believed he was poisoned, without any evidence that was actually the case. Clark suggests that Chandler actually was sick from not taking care of his health during the campaign trail. Clark also discusses the practice of Kentucky politicians reversing the votes in certain counties so that their chosen candidates win. He also begins to discuss John Y. Brown's run for the Senate seat against Chandler and the charges he leveled against Chandler.

Keywords: 1939 Senate primary; Chandler's first administration; Governor Chandler; Kentucky Democrats; Poisoning accusations; Political accusations; Political rhetoric; Political rumors

Subjects: Barkley, Alben William 1877-1956.; Brown, John Young, 1900-1985; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991.; Clark, Thomas Dionysius, 1903-2005; Clements, Earle C. (Earle Chester), 1896-1985; Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Donovan, Herman Lee, 1887-1964; Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Laffoon, Ruby, 1869-1941; Law and legislation; Logan, M. M. (Marvel Mills), 1874-1939; Martin, James Walter, 1893-1990; New Deal, 1933-1939; Roland, Charles Pierce, 1918-; Roosevelt, Franklin D. (Franklin Delano), 1882-1945.; Sampson, Flem D., 1875-1967; State governments; State governments--Officials and employees; Thurmond, Strom, 1902-2003.

Partial Transcript: "Well, you may not want to be present." Well, before I could catch my breath, that--Earl and Don pitched into the room there, and I had no choice but just to be there.

Segment Synopsis: Clark discusses an incident where Earl Clements and John Y. Brown supposedly sent men to Chandler's home to investigate whether his tires violated World War II rationing restrictions. He discusses how this plot was foiled due to Chandler's wife. Clark also notes how Clements was a master politician, as well as Brown and Chandler's falling out.

Keywords: 1942 Democratic Primary in Kentucky; Attempted political sabotage; Campaign stunts; Kentucky senators; Political sabotage; Rationing violations; Senator Chandler; World War II rationing

Subjects: Barkley, Alben William 1877-1956.; Brown, John Young, 1900-1985; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991.; Clark, Thomas Dionysius, 1903-2005; Clements, Earle C. (Earle Chester), 1896-1985; Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Donovan, Herman Lee, 1887-1964; Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Laffoon, Ruby, 1869-1941; Law and legislation; Martin, James Walter, 1893-1990; New Deal, 1933-1939; Roland, Charles Pierce, 1918-; Roosevelt, Franklin D. (Franklin Delano), 1882-1945.; Sampson, Flem D., 1875-1967; State governments; State governments--Officials and employees; Thurmond, Strom, 1902-2003.; World War, 1939-1945

Partial Transcript: Uh, he, he served in the Senate through most of World War Two, and I suppose your contacts with him during that time--

Segment Synopsis: Clark discusses Chandler's time in the Senate during World War II. He notes how he and Chandler had little contact. However, he does talk about how Chandler hurt himself politically by criticizing the focus of the war on the European theater, opting to support Douglas MacArthur's desire to put more attention and effort into the Pacific Theater. Clark relates a story how a soldier heckled Chandler for his position.

Keywords: Criticism of World War II; European Theater; Jacksonian Democrat; MacArthur, Douglas, 1880-1964.; Pacific Theater; WW2; World War 2; World War II

Subjects: Barkley, Alben William 1877-1956.; Brown, John Young, 1900-1985; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991.; Clark, Thomas Dionysius, 1903-2005; Clements, Earle C. (Earle Chester), 1896-1985; Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Laffoon, Ruby, 1869-1941; Law and legislation; Martin, James Walter, 1893-1990; New Deal, 1933-1939; Roland, Charles Pierce, 1918-; Roosevelt, Franklin D. (Franklin Delano), 1882-1945.; Sampson, Flem D., 1875-1967; State governments; State governments--Officials and employees; Thurmond, Strom, 1902-2003.; World War, 1939-1945

Partial Transcript: Well, in his second administration, he came back less flamboyant, and, uh, again took a look at what, uh, was happening.

Segment Synopsis: Clark discusses Chandler's second administration, noting that he lost the flamboyance that had defined him during his first term. He also notes how Chandler did help promote education during his term. Clark moves on to discuss the creation of the Chandler Medical Center, describing how the University of Kentucky had no good healthcare facility. He describes the opposition to the Medical Center. He also suggests that Chandler had not truly created the Medical Center, which he says was actually born from funding Combs provided while he was governor.

Keywords: Albert B. Chandler Hospital; Archie Cochran; Chandler Medical School; Chandler second administration; Dr. Chambers; Governor Chandler; Silas Mason; University of Kentucky

Subjects: Barkley, Alben William 1877-1956.; Brown, John Young, 1900-1985; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991.; Clark, Thomas Dionysius, 1903-2005; Clements, Earle C. (Earle Chester), 1896-1985; Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Donovan, Herman Lee, 1887-1964; Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Laffoon, Ruby, 1869-1941; Law and legislation; Martin, James Walter, 1893-1990; New Deal, 1933-1939; Roland, Charles Pierce, 1918-; Roosevelt, Franklin D. (Franklin Delano), 1882-1945.; Sampson, Flem D., 1875-1967; State governments; State governments--Officials and employees; Thurmond, Strom, 1902-2003.; University of Kentucky. College of Medicine; University of Kentucky. Medical Center

Partial Transcript: Let me, let me ask you, let me ask you, uh, this question: it was during Happy's second administration that, uh, that President Oswald's term as president ended.

Segment Synopsis: Clark discusses Chandler's role in appointing Frank Dickey as president of the University of Kentucky. He notes that he has to rely on secondhand information. Dickey's appointment, he claimed, was born out of a fight between the previous president, Herman Lee Donovan, and former governor Earle Clements. Clark also discusses whether Chandler's intervention in the University of Kentucky caused further harm to any issues at the university.

Keywords: Frank Welch; Maxwell Place; Presidents of the University of Kentucky; Secondhand information; University of Kentucky faculty

Subjects: Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991.; Clark, Thomas Dionysius, 1903-2005; Clements, Earle C. (Earle Chester), 1896-1985; Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Dickey, Frank Graves; Donovan, Herman Lee, 1887-1964; Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Law and legislation; Martin, James Walter, 1893-1990; New Deal, 1933-1939; Roland, Charles Pierce, 1918-; State governments; State governments--Officials and employees

Partial Transcript: I may--I want to tell you something Happy has told me about his attitude toward higher education in the state and, and his actions, and get your reaction to this.

Segment Synopsis: Clark discusses the pressures Chandler was under from state colleges and institutes of higher education in Kentucky during his second administration. He discusses how the state colleges wanted to become universities, while Chandler wanted the University of Kentucky to stay the flagship school of the state.

Keywords: Chandler education philosophy; Kentucky higher education; Kentucky post-secondary education; Kentucky state colleges; Kentucky universities; University of Kentucky

Subjects: Brown, John Young, 1900-1985; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991.; Clark, Thomas Dionysius, 1903-2005; Clements, Earle C. (Earle Chester), 1896-1985; Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Donovan, Herman Lee, 1887-1964; Governors--Kentucky; Johnson, Keen, 1896-1970; Kentucky--Politics and government; Laffoon, Ruby, 1869-1941; Law and legislation; Roland, Charles Pierce, 1918-; State governments; State governments--Officials and employees

Partial Transcript: I, I want to say there are two pluses that are distinct pluses, in my opinion.

Segment Synopsis: Clark discusses Chandler's loyalty to the University of Kentucky. He notes how Chandler was willing to stand against segregationist Citizens' Councils. Clark discusses his own interest in seeing how Chandler would respond, considering both his support for Strom Thurmond as well as his breaking the color line with signing on Jackie Robinson during his time as Commissioner of Baseball. He concludes by noting that Chandler was independent in his political beliefs and actions, which made him an outsider to the Democratic establishment.

Keywords: Big Blue Nation; Chandler on race; Chandler second administration; Citizens' Councils; Desegregation; Governor Chandler; Loyalty to the University of Kentucky; University of Kentucky

Subjects: Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991.; Clark, Thomas Dionysius, 1903-2005; Dickey, Frank Graves; Donovan, Herman Lee, 1887-1964; Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Law and legislation; Roland, Charles Pierce, 1918-; State governments; State governments--Officials and employees; Thurmond, Strom, 1902-2003.

Partial Transcript: Well, let me move on down a little now.

Segment Synopsis: Clark discusses John Oswald's appointment as president of the University of Kentucky. He notes how he is unsure about connection between Oswald and Chandler, but notes that Oswald and Louie B. Nunn did not agree. He discusses how Nunn was able to get Chandler's support. Clark notes his own role in the appointment, suggesting that internal politics allowed Oswald to be appointed without anyone's voicing support for him or voting for him.

Keywords: "Bud" Cochran; Bud Cochran; Cochran, Lewis W., 1915-; Herschel Murray; Jim Sullivan; John Hicks; Presidents of the University of Kentucky; Steve Dodson; Steve Dotson; University of Kentucky

Subjects: Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Clark, Thomas Dionysius, 1903-2005; Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Dickey, Frank Graves; Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Nunn, Louie B., 1924-2004; Oswald, John W. (John Wieland), 1917-1995; Politicians--Kentucky; Politics, Practical; Roland, Charles Pierce, 1918-

Partial Transcript: This may be, uh, too much of a question, but let me pose it anyway. What--how, how would you sum up, uh, Happy Chandler's role in public life of Kentucky?

Segment Synopsis: Clark interrupts the interview to answer the phone. He discusses how Chandler brought a personality to state politics which he considered dull. He also notes how Chandler modernized Kentucky with the Reorganization Act of 1936. He discusses how he personally liked Happy Chandler. Clark also breaks down Chandler's political actions into constructive, self-serving, and bad. He notes that later in life, Chandler could have done more to continue modernizing Kentucky.

Keywords: Chandler as politician; Chandler personality

Subjects: Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991.; Clark, Thomas Dionysius, 1903-2005; Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Law and legislation; Politicians--Kentucky; Politics, Practical; Roland, Charles Pierce, 1918-; State governments; State governments--Officials and employees; Taxation--Law and legislation--Kentucky

Partial Transcript: This is Professor Charles P. Roland of the University of Kentucky History Department.

Segment Synopsis: The interview starts again so that Clark can relate one last story. He discusses Chandler's actions during the 1937 flood, noting that Chandler handled it as best as he could in the circumstances. Clark credits Chandler's quick thinking and the changes to the prison reform system following it.

Keywords: Buell Armory; Chandler first administration; Floods; Frankfort (Ky.); Governor Chandler; Great Flood of 1937; Kentucky disasters; Kentucky floods; Kentucky prison reforms; Kentucky prisons; Lexington (Ky.); Louisville (Ky.); Prison reforms

Subjects: Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991.; Clark, Thomas Dionysius, 1903-2005; Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Law and legislation; New Deal, 1933-1939; Roland, Charles Pierce, 1918-; State governments; State governments--Officials and employees