Interview with Martha Elizabeth "Beth" Clark, March 6, 1990

Partial Transcript: Oh, there's an, an, um--I was going to mention that I was invited to join this book club.

Segment Synopsis: Clark speaks on when she joined a women’s book club. She also was part of a speakeasy club for women that helped teach public speaking that was later called the Monday Club. In the Monday Club, they also had to write papers. This all took place during the 1960s.

Keywords: 1960s; 1965; Book clubs; Equality; Men’s speakeasy; Mrs. James Wily Jones; Public speaking; Speakeasy; Speakeasy for women; The Monday Club; Women

Subjects: Book clubs (Discussion groups); University of Kentucky

Partial Transcript: I was trying to think back, uh, what year did you come to Lexington?

Segment Synopsis: Clark recalls when she moved to Lexington, Kentucky with her husband Dr. Thomas Clark. In 1933 is when Mrs. Clark moved to Lexington and met Frances Jewell McVey. McVey created an encouraging community for other women.

Keywords: 1933; Frances Jewell McVey; Kentucky; Lifestyle changes; Thomas D. Clark

Subjects: 1933; College campuses.; College environment; College presidents' spouses; College students--Social conditions; College students.; College teachers--Social conditions; College teachers.; Education, Higher--Kentucky; Lexington (Ky.); Universities and colleges--Faculty.; Universities and colleges.; University of Kentucky; Women in higher education.; Women--Education (Higher)

Partial Transcript: Well it could be that I was a southerner, and, uh, that, that made a, made a real, a real difference here.

Segment Synopsis: Clark mentions how she never was very close with the other members of The Monday Club. She felt more comfortable with southerners than mid-westerners. As told by Mrs. Clark, there were struggles between the students from different regions of the United States to solidify bonds with one another.

Keywords: Aristocratic; Disparity; Duke University; Educated; Friends; Library; Mid-western; New people; Southern; The Monday Club; Unwritten laws; Women’s clubs

Subjects: College campuses.; College environment; College students--Social conditions; College students.; College teachers' spouses; Educated women; Education, Higher--Kentucky; Law.; Lexington (Ky.); Regions and cities; Universities and colleges.; University of Kentucky; Women in higher education.; Women--Education (Higher)

Partial Transcript: I was a member of the library staff at Duke University.

Segment Synopsis: Clark describes her educational background and previous experience working in a library. She felt that her rushed academic career made being part of The Monday Club rather difficult. She graduated in 4 years with a major in English and had a lot of problems finding a job so she ended up entering librarian school.

Keywords: 1928-1933; Academics; Assistant librarians; Duke University; Education; English majors; Greenville Women’s College; Library school; Martha Elizabeth Clark Education; Simmons University; Teachers; Women’s colleges

Subjects: College campuses.; College environment; College students--Social conditions; College students.; Duke University; Educated women; Education, Higher; Simmons University (Abilene, Tex.); Universities and colleges.; Women in higher education.; Women--Education (Higher); Women.

Partial Transcript: There were no men, and there wasn't a single black girl either.

Segment Synopsis: Clark brings up the subject of students at library school. She states that there were no men, but there was one young black girl who was a descendant of George Washington. She also recalls that she knew that being a librarian was the right choice for her.

Keywords: Black women; Descendants; Duke University; George Washington; Simmons University; Virginia

Subjects: African Americans.; College campuses.; College environment; College students--Social conditions; College students.; Duke University; Education, Higher; Librarians; Library education; Library employees.; Library schools.; Universities and colleges.; Women in higher education.; Women library employees; Women--Education (Higher)

Partial Transcript: And then when, when, uh, you all got married and, and you came up here, uh, not unlike Frances McVey, she gave up her career.

Segment Synopsis: The interviewer questions Clark about Frances McVey and how she gave up her career after marrying Frank McVey. Clark expresses that Mrs. McVey had no regrets about giving up her career because she adored her husband. They talk about whether or not Dr. McVey changed and whether Mrs. McVey made him more tolerable to be around.

Keywords: 1923; Assistant professor of English; Careers; Children; Dean of Women; Frances Jewell McVey; Frank McVey; Husband; Job loss; Marriages; Mid-West; University of Kentucky; Wife

Subjects: College campuses.; College environment; College presidents' spouses; College teachers' spouses; Educated women; Education, Higher--Kentucky; Universities and colleges--Employees; Universities and colleges.; University of Kentucky; Women in higher education.; Women--Education (Higher)

Partial Transcript: Tom could have gone to Chapel Hill at one time.

Segment Synopsis: Clark looks back on how she has advised her husband in many decisions. She agrees with the interviewer that many decisions are mutual between husband and wife. Mrs. Clark says that she is glad her husband was never the president or a dean at the University of Kentucky. She talks about what their relationship was like and how they made decisions together.

Keywords: Careers; Deanship; Decision-making; Discouraging; Frances Jewell McVey; Frank McVey; Marriages; Spouses; Thomas D. Clark; University presidents

Subjects: College campuses.; College environment; College presidents' spouses; College teachers' spouses; Educated women; Education, Higher--Kentucky; Interest.; Marriage.; Universities and colleges--Employees; Universities and colleges.; University of Kentucky; Women in higher education.; Women--Education (Higher)

Partial Transcript: Well, I think, um, you know, times have changed to the point where men help wives make those decisions and wives help men make those decisions.

Segment Synopsis: The interviewer vocalizes his opinion on universities and how, at the time, they were becoming more accustomed to making space for both the husband and wife, regardless of the department that they worked in. The dynamic of faculty and staff on campus, specifically in working relationships, improved drastically from the 1960s to the 1990s. Neither spouse had to give up their position for one another. However, Clark voices her own opinion on how this new lifestyle may affect families with children and how a mother leaving for work before the father could lead to a harder life.

Keywords: Careers; Complicated; Decisions; Departments; Family; Forfeiting career of choice; Frances Jewell McVey; Marriage in the 1960s; Marriages; Men; Modern relationships; Occupations; Spouses; University; Wife taking charge; Women; Women's independence; Working parents; Working partners

Subjects: College campuses.; College environment; College presidents' spouses; College teachers' spouses; Educated women; Education, Higher--Kentucky; Marriage.; Men; Universities and colleges--Employees; Universities and colleges.; University of Kentucky; Women in higher education.; Women--Education (Higher); Women.

Partial Transcript: But any rate, a lot of times, uh, of course Dr. Clark's name has come up when people start talking about who, who may--who should have been or who could have been president at the University of Kentucky.

Segment Synopsis: Clark recounts her husband’s busy lifestyle. Dr. Clark had a passion for working with people and always had to be on his feet.

Keywords: Accomplishments; Gardens; Love of people; Occupations; Thomas D. Clark; Working with people

Subjects: College campuses.; College environment; College teachers' spouses; College teachers--Social conditions; Education, Higher--Kentucky; Freedom.; Universities and colleges--Employees; Universities and colleges--Faculty.; Universities and colleges.; University of Kentucky

Partial Transcript: So they built the house. Everybody got their look at it on Sunday afternoons.

Segment Synopsis: Clark talks about how she and Dr. Clark traveled together quite often. She also recalls how Dr. Clark was thankful to have a wife that could take care of things while he was travelling alone.

Keywords: Fascinating places; Greece; Husband; India; Salzburg; Summer homes; Thomas D. Clark; Travel; Vienna; Wife

Subjects: College teachers' spouses; College teachers--Social conditions; Education, Higher--Kentucky; Greece.; Travel.; Trust.; Universities and colleges--Employees; Universities and colleges--Faculty.; Universities and colleges.; Vienna

Partial Transcript: You ask me some questions because if there's something really important that I should tell you--

Segment Synopsis: The interviewer wanted to know if Mrs. Clark and Frances McVey were ever close friends. Clark was not close with McVey or her group of friends, mainly because they were from the Midwest.

Keywords: Faculty; Frances Jewell McVey; Friendships; South Carolina; Southern; Thomas D. Clark; University of Kentucky; Women

Subjects: Friendship.; Lexington (Ky.); Social; Southern women

Partial Transcript: Now a woman like, uh, Sarah Blanding, after all you realize that I'm, uh, I call myself just another woman from the South...

Segment Synopsis: Clark speaks about Sarah Blanding and how she was a very independent career woman. She wasn't married and could focus on herself and her career. The interviewer mentions how the roles of women were changing and how other women wouldn’t understand the role of a working wife or a stay at home wife.

Keywords: Behavior; Decisions; Faculty wife; Husband; Individual; Occupations; Sarah Blanding; Southern; Spousal support; Wife

Subjects: College campuses.; College environment; Educated women; Education, Higher--Kentucky; Independent; Marriage.; Universities and colleges--Employees; Universities and colleges.; University of Kentucky; University women; Women in higher education.; Women--Education (Higher)

Partial Transcript: And see that's what interests me about Frances--Frances McVey's life is because she’d kind of lived both lives.

Segment Synopsis: The interviewer expresses his interest in Frances McVey’s life before and after marriage. Things weren’t geared towards both spouses having jobs so life tended to be more difficult. She gave up her career when she married Frank. She was very supportive of her husband and his job. Mrs. Clark and the interviewer talk about younger couples and how they manage both having jobs and doing things like taking care of the kids.

Keywords: Family; Frances Jewell McVey; Frank McVey; Husband; Independent; Occupations; Support systems; Transformation; Wife; Women

Subjects: College campuses.; College environment; College presidents' spouses; College teachers' spouses; Educated women; Education, Higher--Kentucky; Family life; Independent to wife; Marriage; Marriage.; Universities and colleges--Employees; Universities and colleges--Faculty; Universities and colleges.; University of Kentucky; Women in higher education.; Women--Education (Higher)

Partial Transcript: The whole thing wasn’t set up--wasn’t geared toward that and now it’s more geared toward that to make it workable I think.

Segment Synopsis: Clark asks the interviewer if he believes his wife is overworked. The interviewer states that they both share duties at home and at work.

Keywords: Balance; Helpful husband; Household duties; Overworked; Wife; Women; Working women

Subjects: Gender; Husband and wife; Marriage; Women's roles through history

Partial Transcript: I guess it was, uh, uh, difficult when, uh, when Mrs McVey became ill.

Segment Synopsis: Dr. and Mrs. McVey were part of the beginning of a growing community of people that would leave their mark on the University of Kentucky. They hosted parties, loved well, and demonstrated success in a couple with vastly different ages. They may have appeared to be dull, but certainly were not, and became the life of the party. They also speak about when Mrs. McVey became ill and had to have surgery. She went on walks a lot and people would walk with her sometimes, including her brother.

Keywords: Frances Jewell McVey; Frank McVey; Illness; Influential; Marriage; Maxwell Place

Subjects: College campuses.; College environment; College presidents' spouses; College teachers' spouses; Educated women; Education, Higher--Kentucky; Influential women; Lexington (Ky.); Marriage.; Sick; Universities and colleges--Employees; Universities and colleges.; University of Kentucky; Women in higher education.; Women--Education (Higher)

Partial Transcript: I guess I'm a little surprised that, uh--is, uh--of course, Dr. Clark and Dr. McVey had a relationship prior to--

Segment Synopsis: The interviewer inquires about why Mrs. Clark and Frances McVey were never close friends since their husbands worked together. Clark stated that she couldn’t imagine them being friends.

Keywords: Frances Jewell McVey; Frank McVey; Husband; Relationships; Thomas D. Clark; University of Kentucky

Subjects: College campuses.; College environment; College presidents' spouses; College teachers' spouses; Educated women; Education, Higher--Kentucky; Friendships.; Husband and wife; Lexington (Ky.); Marriage.; Universities and colleges--Employees; Universities and colleges--Faculty; Universities and colleges.; University of Kentucky; Women in higher education.; Women--Education (Higher)