Interview with Harry M. Caudill, July 24, 1990

Partial Transcript: My name is Richard Royster and I am interviewing Harry Caudill in his home.

Segment Synopsis: Harry Caudill is introduced. He discusses his educational background and history in public office.

Keywords: 1954; 1956; 1960; Commonwealth attorney; Lawyers; Legislators; Legislature; Letcher County High School; Public offices

Subjects: Education--Kentucky; Letcher County (Ky.); University of Kentucky; Whitesburg (Ky.)

Partial Transcript: Now in 1953, Wendell Butler led the movement to amend Section 186 of the Constitution and to enact the Minimum Foundation Program.

Segment Synopsis: Caudill discusses the beginning of the Minimum Foundation Program, its goals, and what it accomplished. He talks about how building roads in isolated, rural areas affected education. He discusses the negative effects of the popularization of television on education.

Keywords: Buildings; Children; Construction; County seats; Earle Clements; Eastern Kentucky; Educational television; Effects; Electricity; Funding; Funds; Impact; Improvement; Isolation; Lawrence Wetherby; Leaving; Minimum Foundation Program; Money; Moving; Opposition; Outmigration; Popularity; Population; Problems; Redistribution; Resources; Supplies; Wendell Butler

Subjects: Butler, Wendell Pace, 1912-2000; Clements, Earle C. (Earle Chester), 1896-1985; Education--Finance--Kentucky; Education--Kentucky; Educational change.; Governors--Kentucky; Roads--Kentucky; Rural roads; Rural schools--Kentucky; School attendance.; Schools; Wetherby, Lawrence W. (Lawrence Winchester), 1908-

Partial Transcript: Now, how was it that Wendell Butler was able to succeed where others had failed before?

Segment Synopsis: Caudill discusses some of the politicians involved in the Minimum Foundation Program. He discusses the politics of increasing taxes to fund the Minimum Foundation Program.

Keywords: Buildings; Decisions; Funding; Funds; Happy Chandler; Lawrence Wetherby; Laws; Legislation; Legislators; Legislature; Minimum Foundation Program; Ned Breathitt; Opposition; Passed; Personality; Poverty; Sales tax; Sense of humor; Taxes; Wendell Butler

Subjects: Breathitt, Edward T., 1924-; Butler, Wendell Pace, 1912-2000; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Education--Finance--Kentucky; Education--Kentucky; Educational change.; Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Politicians--Kentucky; Roads--Kentucky; Rural roads; Rural schools--Kentucky; Schools; Taxation--Law and legislation; Teachers--Kentucky; Wetherby, Lawrence W. (Lawrence Winchester), 1908-

Partial Transcript: Some say that the Minimum Foundations Program was oversold to the public and that they were let--they were let down...

Segment Synopsis: Caudill discusses the public's reactions to the Minimum Foundation Program and its effectiveness.

Keywords: Competition; Cultural reform; Effectiveness; Effects; Enrollment; Funding; Funds; Homework; Impact; Libraries; Minimum Foundation Program; Oversold; Television; University

Subjects: Education--Finance--Kentucky; Education--Kentucky; Educational change.; Rural schools--Kentucky; Schools; University of Kentucky

Partial Transcript: And, uh, then we built the medical school.

Segment Synopsis: Caudill talks about the initial resistance to the UK medical school due to prejudice and racism. He talks about how the medical school influenced education in Kentucky.

Keywords: Doctors; Happy Chandler; Jewish; Jews; Legislation; Medical schools; Prejudices

Subjects: African American physicians; African Americans--Education (Higher); African Americans--Segregation; African Americans--Social conditions.; Anti-Semitism; Antisemitism; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Discrimination in education.; Discrimination.; Education, Higher--Kentucky; Physicians--Kentucky; Race discrimination.; Race relations--Kentucky; Racism; School integration--Kentucky; Teachers--Kentucky; University of Kentucky; University of Kentucky. College of Medicine; University of Kentucky. Medical Center

Partial Transcript: H, how would you describe Wendell Butler's leadership as an education reformer throughout the fifties and sixties...

Segment Synopsis: Caudill talks about Wendell Butler's impact on the field of education.

Keywords: Conservative; Education reform; Effectiveness; Leadership; Resistant

Subjects: Butler, Wendell Pace, 1912-2000; Education--Kentucky; Educational change.; Kentucky--Politics and government; Politicians--Kentucky; Rural schools--Kentucky; Schools; Teachers--Kentucky

Partial Transcript: Why wasn't--well, you, you've already alluded to this I guess.

Segment Synopsis: Caudill talks more about the negative impact of television on education. He talks about how roads and transportation have negatively impacted rural areas of Kentucky.

Keywords: 1950s; Attitudes; Cars; Eastern Kentucky; Isolation; Jobs; Leadership; Leisure; Low pay; Minimum Foundation Program; Mobility; Moving; Outmigration; Problems; Rural areas; Salary; Successes; Television

Subjects: Education--Kentucky; Educational change.; Roads--Kentucky; Rural roads; Rural schools--Kentucky; Schools; Teachers--Kentucky; Transportation--Kentucky

Partial Transcript: During your time in the legislature, how would you describe the relationship between the KEA and the other reform groups...

Segment Synopsis: Caudill talks about political aspects of education, including lobbying for higher pay for teachers. He talks about how the one-term law for Kentucky governors has negatively impacted education. He talks about specific governors' impacts on education. He talks about the impact of the change of leadership in the Kentucky Education Association.

Keywords: Administrators; Adversary; Bert Combs; Changes; Constitutional provisions; Constructive; Dominance; Economy; Happy Chandler; Highways; Impact; Julian Carroll; Kentucky Administrators; Kentucky Education Association; Kentucky School Boards Association; Lawrence Wetherby; Leadership; Lobbying; Local politics; Pay; Political terms; Productive; Re-election; Relationships; Salary; State-wide

Subjects: Carroll, Julian Morton, 1931-; Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Education--Finance--Kentucky; Education--Kentucky; Educational change.; Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Politicians--Kentucky; Roads--Kentucky; Rural roads; Rural schools--Kentucky; Schools; Teachers--Kentucky; Teachers--Salaries, etc.; Wetherby, Lawrence W. (Lawrence Winchester), 1908-

Partial Transcript: Down through the years, what role has the Superintendent of Public Instruction's office played in bringing about reform?

Segment Synopsis: Caudill discusses the role of the Superintendent of Public Instruction in controlling the various school superintendents around Kentucky. He talks about how these superintendents often controlled their counties like fiefdoms, but that they could sometimes be persuaded to participate in education reform.

Keywords: Adron Doran; Anti-reform; Buildings; Control; Education reform; Fiefdoms; Funding; Funds; Jobs; Kentucky Council for Education; Leadership; Local politicians; Medical schools; Minimum Foundation Program; Mobility; Opposition; Patronage; Persuasive; Political machine; Poor; Poverty; Roles; Rural areas; School board; Superintendent of Public Instruction; Welfare; Wendell Butler

Subjects: Butler, Wendell Pace, 1912-2000; Education--Finance--Kentucky; Education--Kentucky; Educational change.; Employment--Kentucky; Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Politicians--Kentucky; Roads--Kentucky; Rural roads; Rural schools--Kentucky; School administrators.; School superintendents; Schools; Taxation--Law and legislation; Teachers--Kentucky; University of Kentucky; University of Kentucky. College of Medicine; University of Kentucky. Medical Center

Partial Transcript: Well let's speak fli--philosophically for a minute then.

Segment Synopsis: Caudill talks more about how television has affected education, as well as other aspects of life including diet and sleeping habits. He talks about how large companies need to educate their employees on parenting and the need for cultural change.

Keywords: American school system; Attitudes; Better; Coal companies; Competition; Corporations; Cultural reform; Diet; Education reform; Homework; Improvements; Leisure; Minimum Foundation Program; More; Parenting; Parents; Plans; Problems; Rural areas; Sleeping habits; Television; University of Kentucky

Subjects: Discipline of children; Education--Kentucky; Educational change.; Roads--Kentucky; Rural roads; Rural schools--Kentucky; School discipline; Schools; Teachers--Kentucky; Transportation--Kentucky

Partial Transcript: Now in 1958, the National Defense Education Act was passed.

Segment Synopsis: Caudill discusses the impact of the 1958 National Defense Education Act. He talks about how the federal money funded roads, libraries, housing, and transportation. He discusses the expense of transportation for schools and its impact on education.

Keywords: 1958; Buses; Busing; Centralization of schools; Consolidation of schools; Constructive; Costs; Education reform; Federal funding; Federal money; Highways; Housing programs; Improvement; Isolation; Libraries; National Defense Education Act; Productive; Reform movement; Revenue

Subjects: Education--Finance--Kentucky; Education--Kentucky; Educational change.; Kentucky--Politics and government; Roads--Kentucky; Rural roads; Rural schools--Kentucky; Schools; Taxation--Law and legislation; Transportation--Kentucky

Partial Transcript: Let's discuss the Special Committee to Investigate Education that you chaired.

Segment Synopsis: Caudill discusses the Special Committee to Investigate Education and their attempt to reduce the misappropriation of funds in education. He discusses the report generated by the committee, and how the legislature did not ask for the advice of teachers. He says he himself spoke to teachers who said that their courses in the College of Education were not helpful in their careers as teachers. He discusses the issues of discipline in schools and the need for trade schools. He talks about the American education system as compared to other countries.

Keywords: Advice; Chairman; College courses; College of Education; Control; Curriculum; Dropping out; Education reform; Experimentation; Funding; House of Representatives; Improvements; Misappropriation of funds; Recommendations; Reform; School systems; Special Committee to Investigate Education; Success; Trade schools; Trial periods; Unhelpful; Worse; unproductive

Subjects: Discipline of children; Education, Higher--Kentucky; Education--Finance--Kentucky; Education--Kentucky; Educational change.; Employment--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Politicians--Kentucky; Rural schools--Kentucky; School administrators.; School discipline; School superintendents; Schools; Teachers--Kentucky; University of Kentucky; University of Kentucky. College of Education

Partial Transcript: Now why were you chosen as chairman of that committee?

Segment Synopsis: Caudill talks about his qualifications for being appointed chairman of the Special Committee to Investigate Education. He talks about the Department of Education's reaction to the Committee's report, which was quite negative regarding the state of education in Kentucky. He talks about politicians' reactions to the report, as well as doctors of education.

Keywords: "Explosion of learning"; "Learning explosion"; Advice; American school system; Appointments; Bert Combs; Chairman; Decline; Department of Education; Disagreements; Doctors of education; Education reform; Findings; G.I. Bill; Legislators; Legislature; Outlook; Public; Qualifications; Reactions; Reports; Responses; School reform; Special Committee to Investigate Education; Support; Witnesses; World War II

Subjects: Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Education, Higher--Kentucky; Education--Finance--Kentucky; Education--Kentucky; Educational change.; Elections; Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Politicians--Kentucky; Rural schools--Kentucky; School administrators.; School superintendents; Schools; Teachers--Kentucky; University of Kentucky; University of Kentucky. College of Education

Partial Transcript: You were also on the Kentucky Commission on Public Education appointed by Governor Combs.

Segment Synopsis: Caudill discusses his role on the Kentucky Commission on Public Education, where he was regarded as a "troublemaker" for attempting education reform. He talks about the American education system as compared to other countries.

Keywords: Allan Trout; American school system; Barry Bingham; Bert Combs; Cultural changes; Cultural reform; Generations; Immigrants; Immigration; Media; Minimum Foundation Program; Press; Prichard Committee for Academic Excellence; Troublemakers

Subjects: Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Education--Kentucky; Educational change.; Elections; Employment--Kentucky; Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Politicians--Kentucky; Rural schools--Kentucky; School administrators.; Schools

Partial Transcript: What are your feelings--this is kind of an aside, I guess.

Segment Synopsis: Caudill discusses the attitude of anti-intellectualism in Kentucky and what can be done to change it. He discusses how religious fundamentalism has affected education reform.

Keywords: Abraham Lincoln; Anti-intellectualism; Attitudes; Cultural changes; Cultural reform; Education reform; Employees; Employers; Jobs; Leadership; Learning; Problems; Reading; Religious fundamentalism; Resistance; Rural areas; Thomas Edison; U.S. presidents; Welfare

Subjects: Education--Kentucky; Educational change.; Religion; Rural schools--Kentucky; Schools

Partial Transcript: Who do you think has had the greatest impact on Kentucky education in the last forty years?

Segment Synopsis: Caudill discusses the impact that the Minimum Foundation Program has had on education reform in Kentucky. He talks more about the need to consult teachers regarding education reform. He talks about various politicians and their impact on education.

Keywords: "Explosion of learning"; "Learning explosion"; Advice; Bert Combs; Buildings; Changes; Colleges; Consultation; Education reform; Effects; Expectations; Happy Chandler; Impact; Instruction; Leadership; Legislation; Legislators; Legislature; Medical schools; Minimum Foundation Program; Momentum; Regrets; Restructuring; Successes; Support; University

Subjects: Chandler, Happy, 1898-1991; Combs, Bert T., 1911-1991; Education--Finance--Kentucky; Education--Kentucky; Educational change.; Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Politicians--Kentucky; Roads--Kentucky; Rural roads; Rural schools--Kentucky; Schools; Teachers--Kentucky; University of Kentucky; University of Kentucky. College of Medicine; University of Kentucky. Medical Center

Partial Transcript: In the 1980s, a new group arrived on the scene.

Segment Synopsis: Caudill discusses the Prichard Committee, other education reform coalitions, and more on the culture shift related to education. The interview concludes abruptly.

Keywords: 1980s; Attitudes; Cultural changes; Cultural reform; Culture; Dynamics; Economic benefits; Education reform; Effectiveness; Equality; Learning; Members; Parents; Prichard Committee for Academic Excellence; Reform coalitions; University of Kentucky

Subjects: Education--Finance--Kentucky; Education--Kentucky; Educational change.; Rural schools--Kentucky; Schools