Interview with George Brosi, November 3, 1990

Partial Transcript: This is an oral history interview with Mr. George Brosi for the University of Kentucky War on Poverty oral history project.

Segment Synopsis: Brosi tells how he became interested in social activism as a college student, especially in the civil rights movement.

Keywords: Carlton College (Minn.); Cultural differences; Milton Olge; Race relations; Student activism; Student volunteers

Subjects: Berea (Ky.); Civil rights movements; Civil rights movements--United States; Hazard (Ky.); Higher education; Oak Ridge (Tenn.); Segregation

Partial Transcript: Uh, and it was while I was a bellhop, uh, the Council of Southern Mountains had their annual conference...

Segment Synopsis: Brosi tells how he became a part of the Council of the Southern Mountains while he was working as a bellhop in Gatlinburg, Tennessee. He also describes his interest in helping the roving pickets.

Keywords: Bellhops; Berman Gibson; Hotels; Roving pickets; SNCC; Strikes; Student volunteers; Unions; Wildcat strikes

Subjects: Council of the Southern Mountains; Gatlinburg (Tenn.); Goldwater, Barry, 1938-; Hazard (Ky.); Perry County (Ky.); Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (U.S.); Volunteers

Partial Transcript: And so then, whenever I had a, a vacation or anything, then I went back to Hazard...

Segment Synopsis: Brosi talks about his involvement with Students for a Democratic Society, as well as his continued connection to Appalachia.

Keywords: ERAP; Economic Research and Action Project; JOIN; Job placement; Jobs or Income Now; Pine Hill (N.Y.); SDS commission

Subjects: Ann Arbor (Mich.); Hazard (Ky.); Students for a Democratic Society (U.S.)

Partial Transcript: What was the purpose of the roving pickets?

Segment Synopsis: Brosi tells how roving pickets were used in Eastern Kentucky to protest against the United Mine Workers of America taking health cards from coal miners.

Keywords: Eastern Kentucky; Medical cards; Royalty fees; Union dues; Union mines

Subjects: Appalachian Region; Coal miners--Labor unions--Kentucky; Strikes and lockouts--Coal mining; United Mine Workers of America

Partial Transcript: So you went from SDS in the summer of '64, then you went to the Council?

Segment Synopsis: Brosi talks about his initial reaction to and involvement in the War on Poverty in Appalachia. He also tells a story about "Uncle Milty", who was initially skeptical of the War on Poverty programs, and preferred to do volunteer work outside of it, such as painting a schoolhouse.

Keywords: "Uncle Milty"; Appalachian Volunteers; Schoolhouses; Social programs; Socialism; Vacation; War on Poverty

Subjects: Education; Social reformers--Appalachian Region; United States. Economic Opportunity Act of 1964

Partial Transcript: Um, did these early initiatives, these early projects have any impact... and uh, and additionally...

Segment Synopsis: Brosi describes some of the effects of the War on Poverty, both positive and negative. He talks especially about the negative perceptions that people living in rural areas had of the young suburbanites who often came to volunteer through the program.

Keywords: Chamber of Commerce; Council; Culture; Secretaries; War on Poverty

Subjects: United States. Economic Opportunity Act of 1964; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: Johnson's, his, his big clause, maximum feasible participation, was that ever carried out...

Segment Synopsis: Brosi states that he believed at the time of the War on Poverty that President Johnson had "co-opted" the idea of maximum feasible participation from other social and political movements. He also discusses the people who benefited from early War on Poverty programs.

Keywords: "Co-opting rhetoric"; Benefactors; Involvement; Outside volunteers; Projects; SDS; War on Poverty

Subjects: Civil rights movements; Johnson, Lyndon B. (Lyndon Baines), 1908-1973.; Students for a Democratic Society (U.S.); United States. Economic Opportunity Act of 1964

Partial Transcript: Uh, around 1966, 67, uh, attitudes start sort of to change a little bit.

Segment Synopsis: Brosi states his view that the War on Poverty was just one phase in the evolution of the anti-poverty movement in Appalachia. He also talks about some of the anti-poverty programs in Appalachia before the War on Poverty began.

Keywords: Appalachian Volunteers; Brenda Bell; Experience; Liberals; Radicals; VISA program; War on Poverty

Subjects: Appalachian Region; Civil rights movements; Council of the Southern Mountains; Economic assistance, Domestic--Appalachian Region; Poverty; Social reformers--Appalachian Region; United States. Economic Opportunity Act of 1964

Partial Transcript: Did Andy Grippers [??] have this change, after watching this go on for four, five years?

Segment Synopsis: Brosi describes how many people's attitudes changed during the civil rights movement and the War on Poverty, especially because they began to be more aware of the existing power structure, which was often oppressive.

Keywords: Attitudes; Change; Oppression; Power; Power structures; Social activism; Social structures; War on Poverty

Subjects: Civil rights movements--United States; Poverty--Appalachian Region

Partial Transcript: Out of this notion, these, these people with new attitudes, what, who were the leaders of this?

Segment Synopsis: Brosi talks about events and people whom he feels had a dramatic impact both the War on Poverty and on other people who were involved in the movement.

Keywords: Al McSurely; Impact; Joe Mulloy; John Koback; Milton Olge; Resisting the draft; Sedition trials

Subjects: Social reformers--Appalachian Region

Partial Transcript: What about the AV-Council split?

Segment Synopsis: Brosi talks about the ideological differences that led to the split between the Appalachian Volunteers and the Council of the Southern Mountains.

Keywords: AVs; Appalachian Volunteers; CSM; Ideological differences; Ideology; Milton Olge; Perly Ayer; Tension

Subjects: Council of the Southern Mountains; Social reformers--Appalachian Region

Partial Transcript: What was the--(Brosi coughs)--what was the relationship between McSurely and Mulloy?

Segment Synopsis: Brosi talks about the dynamic between Joe Mulloy and Al McSurely. He gives his opinion that McSurely manipulated some situations to further his left-wing agenda.

Keywords: "The New Political Union"; Al McSurely; Alan McSurely; Influence; Joe Mulloy; Manipulation; Personalities; War on Poverty

Subjects: Social reformers--Appalachian Region; United States. Economic Opportunity Act of 1964

Partial Transcript: As the uh, AV's and what not became more active, more, uh, more visible, uh, how did the uh, counties...

Segment Synopsis: Brosi states that he feels the state and local governments overreacted to the Appalachian Volunteers. He also mentions that there were people who organized against groups like the Appalachian Volunteers.

Keywords: Appalachian Volunteers; Governors; Huey Perry; Insecurity; Political leaders; Power; Power structures; Violence

Subjects: Appalachian Region; Mingo County (W. Va.); Perry County (Ky.); Politicians

Partial Transcript: What about the, the Green Amendment?

Segment Synopsis: Brosi talks about the motivations behind the passing of the Green Amendment.

Keywords: Community Action Programs; Federal funds; Green Amendment; Kentucky Un-American Activities Committee; Regulation; Restructuring

Subjects: Economic assistance, Domestic--Appalachian Region

Partial Transcript: You, were you involved any of the community action programs?

Segment Synopsis: Brosi talks about the connections he had with workers in Appalachia while he was working with Students for a Democratic Society. He mentions his work as a peace intern for the American Foreign Service Committee. He also discusses getting a job with the Council of the Southern Mountains.

Keywords: American Foreign Service Committee; Draft deferment; Involvement; Loyal Jones; SDS; Southern Student Organizing Committee; Youth commission

Subjects: Council of the Southern Mountains; Social reformers--Appalachian Region; Students for a Democratic Society (U.S.)

Partial Transcript: What does, what exactly did you do as the youth... committee?

Segment Synopsis: Brosi talks about his work with the youth commission program, a part of the Council of the Southern Mountains. He shares how he felt he was pushed out of the organization due to his views on the Vietnam War.

Keywords: Jobs; Loyal Jones; Organizers; Radicals; Vocations; Youth commission program

Subjects: Berea (Ky.); Council of the Southern Mountains; Social reformers--Appalachian Region; Student protesters; Vietnam War, 1961-1975

Partial Transcript: In, in the, in the, in '69, Louie Nunn becomes governor, and you know of course he was, you know, conservative and what not.

Segment Synopsis: Brosi talks about how the Appalachian Volunteers and the War on Poverty began to fall out of favor, starting with the election of Louie B. Nunn as governor of Kentucky.

Keywords: Anti-war movements; Appalachian Volunteers; Conservatives; War on Poverty

Subjects: Kentucky. Governor (1967-1971 : Nunn); Nunn, Louie B., 1924-2004; Social reformers--Appalachian Region; United States. Economic Opportunity Act of 1964

Partial Transcript: As, as the War on Poverty winds down, going down, late 60s, is anything uh, is anything taking its place?

Segment Synopsis: Brosi discusses the results of the War on Poverty, stating that he feels that the volunteers and people within Appalachian communities "lost". He also talks about what has happened to the activists of the 1960's since that time, and mentions a few of the positive outcomes of the era.

Keywords: Activists; Empowerment; Experience; Literature; Social activists; War on Poverty; Yuppies

Subjects: Social reformers--Appalachian Region; United States. Economic Opportunity Act of 1964

Partial Transcript: Did any new kind of uh, local organizations spring up in, in the mountains themselves...

Segment Synopsis: Brosi talks about the people and organizations fighting poverty in Appalachia prior to the War on Poverty. He states his opinion that the students who came to Appalachia to volunteer often did not know this.

Keywords: "Poverty warriors"; Change; Community activists; Power; Power structures; Social movements; Students; War on Poverty

Subjects: Appalachian Region; Appalachians (People); Leadership; Social reformers--Appalachian Region; United States. Economic Opportunity Act of 1964

Partial Transcript: How, how do you mean... uh, tha, that they were preventing it?

Segment Synopsis: Brosi describes how the volunteers, usually college students, who came to Appalachia often made the situation worse for local residents than it might have been otherwise.

Keywords: Appalachian Volunteers; College students; Communication; Outsiders; Power; Power structures; Sensitivity; Students; War on Poverty

Subjects: Appalachians (People); Leadership; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: I've put a lot in the, uh, AV papers and what not about, uh, the questions concerning, you know, kids coming from outside...

Segment Synopsis: Brosi describes how some of the outside volunteers had a superiority complex when interacting with people in Appalachia. He also mentions why he thinks Milton Olge quit the Appalachian Volunteers.

Keywords: Appalachian Volunteers; Appearance; Clothing; Confrontations; Cultural differences; Insensitivity; John Koback; Milton Ogle; Perception; Perly Ayer; War on Poverty

Subjects: Appalachian Region; Appalachians (People); Volunteers

Partial Transcript: Do you see any overall long term impact of the War on Poverty?

Segment Synopsis: Brosi talks about the impact and legacy of the War on Poverty. He shares how he feels it opened up the Appalachian region.

Keywords: "Foreign invaders"; Consequences; Exposure; Insurgency

Subjects: Appalachian Region; United States. Economic Opportunity Act of 1964

Partial Transcript: Could anything have been done differently?

Segment Synopsis: Brosi talks about some of the shortcomings of the War on Poverty, and describes some of the ways the program could have been improved, including more involvement from local activists and volunteers.

Keywords: Class; Contradictions; Governments; Middle class; Power; Power structures; SALT; Skills; War on Poverty

Subjects: Appalachians (People); Bell County (Ky.); Social reformers--Appalachian Region; United States. Economic Opportunity Act of 1964; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: And, and then you, and you've gotta... give em a s--, you've gotta give 'em a sense of strategy...

Segment Synopsis: Brosi describes what is necessary to build a movement. He also talks about VISTA (now AmeriCorps VISTA) and Appalachian Volunteers, comparing the two organizations.

Keywords: Appalachian Volunteers; Constituencies; Issues; Lifestyles; Mental illness; Movements; Outsiders; Poverty programs; Power structures; Radio stations; Sensitivity; Spies; VISTA

Partial Transcript: Uh, do you think the War on Poverty changed the overall image of Appalachia?

Segment Synopsis: Brosi talks about the impact that the War on Poverty had on how Americans in general view the Appalachian region. He also shares his belief that some missionaries, both religious and social, take advantage of the region's poor population in their efforts to raise funds.

Keywords: Community; Dependence; Donations; Floridians; Impact; Marie Cirillo; Missionaries; Motivations; Power structures; Pride; Public image; Respect; Stereotypes

Subjects: Appalachian Region; Appalachians; Berea College

Partial Transcript: How would you describe the Council in, in this, in, in relation to these terms?

Segment Synopsis: Brosi describes how the Council of the Southern Mountains has changed in its politics, philosophy, and mission since its founding.

Keywords: Conservatism; Dan Hendrickson; Liberalism; Mental illness; Oppression; Politics; Power companies; Power structures; Right-wing politics; Service projects; War on Poverty

Subjects: Council of the Southern Mountains; Economic assistance, Domestic--Appalachian Region; Social reformers--Appalachian Region

Partial Transcript: The Council, sp, specially what you've done with the War on Poverty... correct me if I'm wrong, but adopting...

Segment Synopsis: Brosi describes how the Council of the Southern Mountains worked with local people in Appalachia, rather than adopting a "missionary" approach. He also describes the difference in the philosophies of the Council and the Appalachian Volunteers after the two organizations split.

Keywords: Appalachian Volunteers; College students; Dan Hendrickson; Junalesca Conference (??); Loyal Jones; Marie Cirillo; Missionaries; Philosophies; Power structures; Warren Wright

Subjects: Council of the Southern Mountains

Partial Transcript: Finally, have, uh, have, have any of your perceptions changed since the War on Poverty, or because of the War on Poverty?

Segment Synopsis: Brosi shares how the War on Poverty impacted his personal perceptions.

Keywords: Awareness; Changes; Consciousness; Experience; Perceptions; War on Poverty

Subjects: Civil rights movements; Civil rights movements--United States; United States. Economic Opportunity Act of 1964

Partial Transcript: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, let me see what else I want to say.

Segment Synopsis: Brosi briefly describes some of the other influences on the War on Poverty, including Highlander Folk School (now Highlander Research and Education Center), and the Catholic Church.

Keywords: Catholic missionaries; Missionaries; War on Poverty

Subjects: Appalachians (People); Catholic Church; Civil rights movements; Highlander Folk School (Monteagle, Tenn.); United States. Economic Opportunity Act of 1964

Partial Transcript: What, what happened to the ERA (??) project in Hazard?

Segment Synopsis: Brosi discusses some of the people he knows who were involved in the War on Poverty.

Keywords: Appalachian Volunteers; Candy Karawan; Joan Herrin (??); John Karawan; John Kobak; Judy Martin; Lawyers; Mike Smathers; Projects; Role models; Sue Easterling; Voices from the Mountains (book)

Subjects: Highlander Folk School (Monteagle, Tenn.)

Partial Transcript: Uh, you need to talk to Thine (??) and Kathy Kahn...

Segment Synopsis: Brosi mentions many people who were involved in the War on Poverty, either as members of the Appalachian Volunteers or otherwise.

Keywords: Anne Olson; Appalachian Volunteers; Billy Best; Dave Elkington; Hillbilly Women (book); Linda Bell; Linda Cooper; Miss Hinnegat (??); Nursing school; Rich Hingen; Sue Kobak; VISA program; War on Poverty

Subjects: Morehead State University; United States. Economic Opportunity Act of 1964

Partial Transcript: You've got to talk to Michael and Monica Appleby in Blacksburg.

Segment Synopsis: Brosi mentions Catholics, both through and independent of the church, who were involved in the War on Poverty. He also talks about Doug Yarrow and Yuda Hall (??).

Keywords: Dick Greg School; Doug Yarrow; Father Wes Smith; Grinmary (??); Michael Appleby; Monica Appleby; Priests; Sally Mager (??); Self confidence; Social workers; War on Poverty; Yuda Hall (??)

Subjects: Catholic Church; United States. Economic Opportunity Act of 1964

Partial Transcript: Okay, we also need to talk about Rick Dionne and Rob Burledge (??). Do you know who they are?

Segment Synopsis: Brosi recommends that the interviewer contact several other people who were involved in the War on Poverty in various ways. The interview is concluded.

Keywords: Activists; Don West; Magazines; PARC; People's Appalachian (magazine); People's Appalachian Regional Commission; Propaganda; Rick Dionne; Rob Burledge (??); Young Americans for Freedom

Subjects: Social reformers--Appalachian Region