Interview with Joseph T. Mulloy, November 10, 1990

Partial Transcript: This is an oral history interview with Mr. Joe Mulloy for the University of Kentucky...

Segment Synopsis: Mulloy talks about how he initially got involved in the Appalachian Volunteers in 1964, mentioning that it was a lecture by Jack Rivel at UK that first got him interested in the anti-poverty movement. He also talks about his early experiences in the Appalachian Volunteers renovating schools in Eastern Kentucky.

Keywords: "Yesterday's People"; Appalachian Volunteers (AVs); Area of focus; Community response; Council of the Southern Mountains (CSM); Criticism; Early stages; Eastern Kentucky; Federal involvement; Improvements; Influences; Infrastructure; Involvement; Motivation; Quaker projects; School renovation projects

Subjects: Civil rights movements--United States; Knott County (Ky.); Rivel, Jack; University of Kentucky

Partial Transcript: Detail this approach as specifically as you can.

Segment Synopsis: Mulloy talks about how the Appalachian Volunteers generally approached the issue of poverty in Appalachia, mentioning that initially the focus was on temporary solutions. He talks about the turning point for the AVs and their increased focus on long term problems/solutions. He also talks about focusing on strip mining in Appalachia.

Keywords: "Band-aid on cancer" approach; Appalachian Volunteers (AVs):Trip to Washington D.C.; Bitterness; Community meetings; Hawthorne School meeting; Long term needs; Radicalization; School boards' reaction; Social activism; Temporary solutions; Turning points; Working with locals

Subjects: Appalachian Region; Poverty--Appalachian Region; Social reformers--Appalachian Region; Strip mining; Washington (D.C.)

Partial Transcript: Okay you switched from the band-aid approach...

Segment Synopsis: Mulloy talks about the recruitment of college students by the Appalachian Volunteers (AVs). He goes on to talk about issues the AVs had with their young volunteers.

Keywords: Connecting with locals; Cultural clashes; Cultural differences; Early emphasis; Locals; Meaningful experiences; Negative attitudes; Perceptions of volunteers; Recruiting college students; Scandalous behavior

Subjects: Appalachian Region--Social conditions

Partial Transcript: Okay as you evolved from the band-aid approach, as you, as you called it, what, what direction did you head?

Segment Synopsis: Mulloy talks about the Appalachians' new focus on problems surrounding strip mining in eastern Kentucky.

Keywords: AVs experience; Appalachian Group to Save the Land and the People (AGSLP); Approach to the problem; Community organizations; Eastern Kentucky; Lack of school resources; Local politics; Strip mining issue; Tensions within movement; UMW; Unifying against strip mining

Subjects: Appalachian Region; Social reformers--Appalachian Region; Strip mining; United Mine Workers of America; West Virginia

Partial Transcript: Tell me about these community action programs. How did they work? Who, who ran them?

Segment Synopsis: Mulloy discusses the purpose and organization of community action programs, mentioning that they were federally mandated programs. He also talks about some of the problems with the board of directors of some community action agencies, mentioning that local issues caused problems for community action agencies especially in the eyes of outside organizations like the Appalachian Volunteers.

Keywords: Appalachian Volunteers (AVs); Board of directors; Community Action Agencies; Controversy between programs; Federally mandated programs; Local power structure; Make-up of the board; Political corruption; Political issues; Tensions; VISTA volunteers; War on Poverty programs

Subjects: Economic assistance, Domestic--Appalachian Region; Mingo County (W. Va.)

Partial Transcript: What kind of voice--did the poor actually have a voice in the community action programs?

Segment Synopsis: Mulloy talks about the shortcomings of the community action programs and War on Poverty, mentioning some of the problems that the movement faced that hindered the programs' success.

Keywords: Anti-poverty programs; Challenging the status quo; Decrease in political support; Lack of funding; Potential; Shortcomings

Subjects: Economic assistance, Domestic--Appalachian Region; Social reformers--Appalachian Region

Partial Transcript: What about the Appalachian Group to Save the Land and the People?

Segment Synopsis: Mulloy talks about the activities of the Appalachian Group to Save the Land and the People, including the Appalachian Volunteers' involvement with the group. He also talks about how his role in the AVs changed when he became a staff member.

Keywords: Agitators; Appalachian Volunteers (AVs); Civil disobediance; Different roles; Edith Easterling; Flem Messer; Involvement; Jink Ray; Jink Ray incident; Ollie Widow Combs; Outsiders; Perceptions; Protests; Retaliation by locals

Subjects: Appalachian Region; Manchester (Ky.); Social reformers--Appalachian Region; Strip mining

Partial Transcript: Tell me about the Jink Ray incident. What precipitated all that...

Segment Synopsis: Mulloy talks about a local farmer in Pike County named Jink Ray who organized to stop strip mining in his local community.

Keywords: Appalachian Volunteers' involvement; Eastern Kentucky; Governor intervention; Issues with bulldozers; Negative consequences; Personal involvement; Trying to stop strip mining

Subjects: Appalachian Region; Pike County (Ky.); Strip mining--Law and legislation--Appalachian Region

Partial Transcript: How did--okay again I'm going to go back to this, this your, your, evolution...

Segment Synopsis: Mulloy discusses why he thinks the Appalachian Volunteers split from the Council of the Southern Mountains, mentioning that the split was mainly over philosophical differences on how to approach the War on Poverty.

Keywords: "Yesterday's People"; AVs; Cultural differences; Federal involvement; Generational differences; Milton Ogle; Perley Ayers; Turbulent times

Subjects: Appalachian Region

Partial Transcript: Well let's go back to, I guess it was sixty-seven, and the, uh, sedition trial arrest.

Segment Synopsis: Mulloy talks about the situation leading up to his arrest for sedition. He then goes on to talk about his court case and its aftermath.

Keywords: Alan McSurely; Appalachian Volunteers (AVs); Constitutionality; Court intervention; Dan Jack Combs; Economic power; Edith Easterling; Federal involvement; Harry Caudill; Indictments; Jink Ray incident; Karen Mulloy; Motivations; Perry Justice; Police raids; Power structures; Seized property; State sedition laws; Thomas Ratliff; Threatened; William Kunsler

Subjects: Civil rights movements--United States; Lawyers--Kentucky; Lexington (Ky.); Pike County (Ky.)

Partial Transcript: Um, what they did in my case and why I think I wasn't subpoenaed to go before the court...

Segment Synopsis: Mulloy talks about resisting the draft and his subsequent arrest, mentioning his reasons for resisting and the court case that followed.

Keywords: Conscientious objectors; Court cases; Don Pratt; Draft board 37; Draft resistors; Federal prison experiences; Feelings about Vietnam War; Feelings about military; Induction notices; Influences; Military drafts; Robert Allen Settler; Sentencing; Thomas Merton

Subjects: Louisville (Ky.); Religion; Vietnam War, 1961-1975

Partial Transcript: What happened with the AVs with all this?

Segment Synopsis: Mulloy talks about getting fired by the Appalachian Volunteers, which happened in anticipation of him resisting the draft.

Keywords: AV staff meeting; Impact; Initial support of AVs; Jim Goreman; Losing support of AVs; Milton Ogle; Motivations for not resigning; Negative reputation; Resisting the draft; Sedition arrest; Vote of confidence

Partial Transcript: What'd you do from there?

Segment Synopsis: Mulloy talks about what he did initially after getting fired from the Appalachian Volunteers. He also talks about the overturning of his conviction for resisting the draft in 1970.

Keywords: Conscientious objectors; Draft; Draft board; Local board 37; Mulloy v. United States (1970); National impact; Overturning his conviction

Subjects: Louisville (Ky.); Vietnam War, 1961-1975

Partial Transcript: Tell me bout Al McSurely? He came in ----------(??) he was an AV at one point...

Segment Synopsis: Mulloy talks about the involvement of Al McSurely in the Appalachian Volunteers and his confrontational tactics. He goes on to talk about his own connection to McSurely.

Keywords: "New Political Union"; AV training; Al McSurely; Appalachian Volunteers (AVs); Confrontational approach; Connection to civil rights movement; Involvement in AVs; Margaret McSurely; Personal relationship with McSurely; The McSurely's estate; Thomas Ratliff

Subjects: Pike County (Ky.)

Partial Transcript: Wha, what, what about the Green Amendment? You remember to Green Amendment?

Segment Synopsis: Mulloy talks about the Appalachian Volunteers after he was fired and the War on Poverty in general in the later years. He also talks about his association with the Highlander Center.

Keywords: Appalachian Volunteers (AVs); Different relationships; Impact of Green Amendment; Mike Clark; Milton Ogle; Myles Horton; Perspectives; Politics; Protest over firing; Relationship with coal; Steve Doherty (??); Thomas Ratliff; Tom Bethel

Subjects: Carmichael, Stokely; Highlander Folk School (Monteagle, Tenn.)

Partial Transcript: Do you recall anything about the Kentucky Un-American Activities Committee?

Segment Synopsis: Mulloy talks about the Kentucky Un-American Activities Committee and their targeting of Appalachian Volunteers. He goes on to talk about the Marrowbone Folk School and community center in Pike County, Kentucky.

Keywords: Appalachian Volunteers (AVs); Community centers; Edith Easterling; Highlander Center; Highlander model; Marrowbone Folk School; Perry Justice; Poor Bottom (Ky.); Targeting

Subjects: Highlander Folk School (Monteagle, Tenn.); Pike County (Ky.)

Partial Transcript: After Louie Nunn was, was elected could, could you recognize any concrete shifts...

Segment Synopsis: Mulloy talks about different approaches of community action agencies to involve and empower local people and confront the local power structures.

Keywords: (VISTA); Benefits; Changes; Community Action Agencies (CAA); Community action programs; Confrontational approaches; Consequences; Flem Messer; Gibbs Kinderman; Jink Ray incident; Local political structures; Maximum feasible participation; Motivations; Mud Creek (Ky.); Reactions; Taking over CAA boards; War on Poverty

Subjects: Pike County (Ky.); Raleigh County (W. Va.); Volunteers In Service To America

Partial Transcript: Since we're back at this, at this school in Washington, anymore details on that meeting?

Segment Synopsis: Mulloy talks about his early involvement with the Appalachian Volunteers and VISTAs. He also talks about the insider/outsider dynamic.

Keywords: Council of the Southern Mountains (CSM); Cultural differences; Hawthorne School meeting (1966); Influence; Insider/outsider issue; Involvment; Office of Economic Opportunity (OEO); Patronizing attitudes; Relations between VISTAs and AVs; Relocating to Appalachia; Shifting focus; Summer volunteer projects; VISTA volunteers; VISTAs in West Virginia

Subjects: Volunteers in Service to America; Washington (D.C.)

Partial Transcript: You mention mistakes you might have made, what do you think they were?

Segment Synopsis: Mulloy looks back on some of the decisions he made and the approach that the Appalachian Volunteers took. He also talks about his decision to resist the draft.

Keywords: Anti-war stance; Appalachian Volunteers (AVs); Confrontational approach; Consequences of vote; Forcing the issue; Mistakes; Motivations; Regrets; War on Poverty

Subjects: Pike County (Ky.); Vietnam War, 1961-1975

Partial Transcript: You haven't said anything like this, but I'm goin, I'm going to ask you this anyway...

Segment Synopsis: Mulloy talks about his personal legacy in the War on Poverty. He goes on to talk about his activism in other areas after the working in the anti-poverty movement, mentioning his involvement in civil rights and the miners reform movement.

Keywords: AppalReD; Economic impact; End of War on Poverty; Impact; Involvement in civil rights work; Long range impact; Mine workers reform movement; Personal legacies; Preceptions among locals; Resisting the draft; Roots in War on Poverty; Shortcomings; Social activism; Working class population

Subjects: Appalachian Region; Social reformers--Appalachian Region

Partial Transcript: Any other kind of long range impact you see from the War on Poverty?

Segment Synopsis: Mulloy talks about how the War on Poverty personally impacted his perceptions.

Keywords: Being an organizer; Creating change; Experiences; Lessons learned; Outlook on life; Power of the people; War on Poverty

Partial Transcript: Because Marrowbone Folk School was on the model of Highlander...

Segment Synopsis: Mulloy talks about how the empowerment of people outside of the power structure can be threatening to the power structure. He also talks about mistakes that were made in the War on Poverty.

Keywords: Appalachian Volunteers (AVs); Bib overalls; Highlander Center; Local response; Marrowbone Folk School; Mistakes; Political corruption; Poor people; Reactions; Threatening circumstances; War on Poverty

Subjects: Mingo County (W. Va.); Pike County (Ky.); West Virginia