Interview with Richard M. Kirby, March 12, 1991

Partial Transcript: Um, why don't we start with your full name and where you were born and when?

Segment Synopsis: Kirby discusses his parents and his childhood in both New York City and Kentucky. He tells how he became involved in the War on Poverty while he was attending college.

Keywords: Architects; Childhood; Parents; Trinity College; War on Poverty

Subjects: Breathitt County (Ky.); College students; Cynthiana (Ky.); Letcher County (Ky.); New York (N.Y.)

Partial Transcript: Did you, did you associate this with home or did it seem like almost a new thing...

Segment Synopsis: Kirby tells how he joined the Appalachian Volunteers in the summer of 1968. He describes the work he did for the organization, and talks about Harry Caudill.

Keywords: Accents; Appalachian Volunteers; Coal; Conservation Foundation; Land ownership; Night Comes to the Cumberlands (book); Property tax records; Traditional music

Subjects: Appalachian Region--Social life and customs; Caudill, Harry M., 1922-1990; Coal mines and mining; Music; Strip mining

Partial Transcript: And, uh, what did you find out?

Segment Synopsis: Kirby describes why broad deed forms were a problem, since they gave coal companies much more leeway in obtaining their coal through strip mining. He discusses the related research he did for the Appalachian Volunteers.

Keywords: Appalachian Land Ownership Survey; Appalachian Volunteers; Broad form deeds; Coal; Courthouses; Minerals; Ownership; Reports; Research; Warren Wright

Subjects: Coal mines and mining; Council of the Southern Mountains; Harlan County (Ky.); Strip mining

Partial Transcript: And then where did, where, where did you go after this summer that you were talking about?

Segment Synopsis: Kirby describes talks about working for the Mountain Legal Rights Association, an organization that grew out of the Appalachian Volunteers after it became defunct. He also shares his reasons for remaining in Appalachia.

Keywords: Appalachian Volunteers; Howard Thorklesen; Lawyers; Mountain Legal Rights Association

Subjects: Appalachian Region; Music

Partial Transcript: ...How does your music apply to all this?

Segment Synopsis: Kirby describes how the Appalachian Volunteers were involved in the anti-strip mining movement, and discusses some of the events they attended, and that they sponsored.

Keywords: Appalachian Volunteers; Gabe's Motor Inn (Owensboro, Ky.); George Tucker; Kentucky Department of Natural Resources; Michael Kline; Songs; Symposiums; Tom Bethel

Subjects: Music; Strip mining

Partial Transcript: When I ended up, after, after the Prestonsburg experience, after, when I quit being a lawyer...

Segment Synopsis: Kirby describes the influence that music has had on him and on his family. He also shares his experiences of being somewhat of an outsider in the South, despite his having a partly Southern background.

Keywords: Communities; Culture; Lawyers; Mountain Legal Rights Association; Musicians; Outsiders; Politeness; Professionals; Rudeness; Singers

Subjects: Music; Southern States

Partial Transcript: Has it caused you any troubles?

Segment Synopsis: Kirby describes the importance of letting the local people lead and decide which issues to tackle, rather than leaving it to leaders from the outside. He also states his opinion that the federal government may have planned for the War on Poverty to turn out the way that it did, since it sent in many outsiders who would eventually leave. This left the whole area frustrated and unfulfilled.

Keywords: Appalachian Volunteers; Communities; Eastern Kentucky; Money; Organizers; Projects; Roving pickets; War on Poverty

Subjects: Highlander Folk School (Monteagle, Tenn.); United States. Economic Opportunity Act of 1964; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: But did that happen?

Segment Synopsis: Kirby talks about Mountain People's Rights, the organization that he worked for after the end of the Appalachian Volunteers. He also discusses some of the other groups that formed in the aftermath of the War on Poverty.

Keywords: Appalachian Group to Save the Land and People; Appalachian Volunteers; Goals; Mountain Legal Rights Association; Mountain People's Rights; Mud Creek Clinic; Organizers; War on Poverty; Welfare rights

Subjects: Public welfare; Strip mining; United States. Economic Opportunity Act of 1964

Partial Transcript: Did you see any other tangible results from all this?

Segment Synopsis: Kirby discusses the lack of real, tangible results from the War on Poverty, in his opinion. He also briefly talks about Appalshop, an arts education center in Kentucky.

Keywords: Accents; Appalshop; Bill Richardson; Bluegrass music; Traditions; War on Poverty

Subjects: Caudill, Harry M., 1922-1990; Folk music; Folk music--Appalachian Region; Music; Teachers; United States. Economic Opportunity Act of 1964

Partial Transcript: Um, how would you say at that time the War on Poverty workers viewed themselves?

Segment Synopsis: Kirby describes how the volunteers in the War on Poverty were often also agitators for social change, despite often coming from privileged backgrounds themselves.

Keywords: Appalachian Volunteers; Class; Joe Mulloy; Privilege; Social change; War on Poverty

Subjects: United States. Economic Opportunity Act of 1964

Partial Transcript: How do you mean engineered this -----------(??)...

Segment Synopsis: Kirby tells how Joe Mulloy's decision to resist being drafted into the Vietnam War sparked a debate within the Appalachian Volunteers over whether they should become an anti-war organization. He states that he feels this debate was what destroyed the organization.

Keywords: Anti-war organizations; Appalachian Volunteers; Joe Mulloy; Leaders; Patriotism

Subjects: Civil rights movements--United States; King, Martin Luther, Jr. 1929-1968; Vietnam War, 1961-1975

Partial Transcript: Um, what, tell me a little bit about what your life was like that summer, that you, or the time period that you were most involved...

Segment Synopsis: Kirby discusses spending the summer working for the Appalachian Volunteers.

Keywords: Activists; Appalachian Volunteers; Dan Gibson; Mountain Eagle; Stories; Tom Gish; Widow Combs

Subjects: Volunteers

Partial Transcript: One of the regrets of my life was uh, not going to Chicago.

Segment Synopsis: Kirby talks about the riots that occurred at the 1968 National Democratic Convention. He also shares his own involvement in a local campaign for presidential candidate Eugene McCarthy.

Keywords: Community organizing; County conventions; Democratic National Convention; Eugene McCarthy; McCarthy campaign; Presidential campaigns; Tear gas

Subjects: College students; Vietnam War, 1961-1975

Partial Transcript: So uh, how, how did the communities respond to the AV's, in, in your observation?

Segment Synopsis: Kirby describes the community involvement in strip mine tours organized in part by the Appalachian Volunteers. He also discusses his interest in traditional Appalachian music, as well as his experiences playing this music.

Keywords: Appalachian Volunteers; Appalshop; Doc Watson; Hobart Smith; Mississippi John Hurt; Organizers; Singers; Strip mine tours; Traditional music

Subjects: Appalachians (People); Folk music; Folk music--Appalachian Region; Music; Music--Appalachian Region; Musicians; Owensboro (Ky.); Strip mining

Partial Transcript: And when I moved to uh... well actually, Michael and I did, did uh, we were, we were all doing different, different things.

Segment Synopsis: Kirby talks about his career performing traditional Appalachian music. He also discusses how music can be written to address topical issues, sharing an anti-slavery song that his grandmother sang to him.

Keywords: Anti-slavery songs; Appalachian studies; Appalshop; Bands; Elementary schools; Ethnic Heritage Studies; History; Songs; Tom Boydsell (??)

Subjects: Music; Musicians; Virginia

Partial Transcript: Um, there's a lot of mining songs. Uh, I've been just a great fan of Hazel Dickens for years...

Segment Synopsis: Kirby describes how black lung affects many coal miners, and tells how some coal mining companies deliberately falsified the dust samples that they sent to the federal government to test.

Keywords: Appalachian Volunteers; Black lung; Coal dust; Doctors' Crusades; Dust scam; Elementary schools; Federal strip mine law; Hazel Dickens; Jean Ritchie; Peabody Coal Company

Subjects: Coal miners; Coal mines and mining; Folk music; Folk music--Appalachian Region; Music; Music--Appalachian Region; Schools; Social security; Strip mining

Partial Transcript: I don't, there don't seem to have been any... major mine disasters.

Segment Synopsis: Kirby speaks briefly about coal mining accidents, and how they have caused safety legislation to be passed. He also tells how the economy of Appalachia has changed in the past few decades. Coal has become slightly less dominant, and quite a few garment factories have been closed down.

Keywords: CONSOL; Coal; Economic development; Economy; Garment factories; Globalization; Pittston strike

Subjects: Coal mine accidents; Coal miners--Labor unions; Coal mines and mining; Labor unions

Partial Transcript: And, you know the same thing I think is happening in a lot of different aspect. Banking, for example is, is become...

Segment Synopsis: Kirby describes the primarily negative effects that globalization has had on the Appalachian region. He also discusses the image that he and many people from outside of the region have had of Appalachian people.

Keywords: Banking; Globalization; Image; Jobs; Local banking; Personality; Stories; Third world countries

Subjects: Appalachian Region; Appalachians (People); Banks and banking; Jackson (Ky.); Poverty

Partial Transcript: Of course, I was in college when uh, in the sixties, when uh, you know, poverty with a big, capital P became a kind of an issue...

Segment Synopsis: Kirby describes typical media coverage of Appalachia, and how he feels that it does not reflect the truth about the area.

Keywords: 48 Hours (Television program); Appalshop; Media; Photographers; Stereotypes; Writers

Subjects: Appalachian Region; Floyd County (Ky.)

Partial Transcript: I was uh, I guess directly involved in founding June Appal. Me and a bunch of other musicians...

Segment Synopsis: Kirby discusses founding the June Appal record label, which was a part of Appalshop. He talks about several recordings under that label, including its first one, by Nimrod Workman.

Keywords: Appalshop; Ballad singers; Grants; Jack Wright; June Appal; Money; Nimrod Workman; Record companies; Record labels; Records; Singers; Songs; Traditional music; Union organizers

Subjects: Coal miners; Folk music; Folk music--Appalachian Region; Music; Musicians

Partial Transcript: -----------(??)---------- with this concert with Si Kahn and -----------(??)----------...

Segment Synopsis: Kirby talks about performing with Si Kahn at an event that Jesse Jackson was a part of. He also discusses another music festival, as well as the people he met there.

Keywords: Appalachian Volunteers; Concerts; Helicopters; June Appal; Music festivals; Quince Valley College; Si Kahn

Subjects: Jackson, Jesse, 1941-; Music; Musicians

Partial Transcript: One thing that I've of have (??) also uh, just because of the way the tapes have fallen, I've interviewed more women who have...

Segment Synopsis: Kirby discusses how men seemed to dominate in the Appalachian Volunteers, both in numbers and in outspokenness. He also shares his feelings as an outsider in the Volunteers.

Keywords: Anti-draft organizations; Appalachian Volunteers; Organizations; Outsiders; War on Poverty

Subjects: United States. Economic Opportunity Act of 1964; Volunteers; Women

Partial Transcript: But how, how would your life be different if you hadn't had this um, summer? Um, and how would your life be different...

Segment Synopsis: Kirby tells how he avoided being drafted for the military by attending college, and how this kept him from staying with the Appalachian Volunteers, as he wanted to.

Keywords: Appalachian Volunteers; Courage; Military draft; Regret

Subjects: Draft; Vietnam War, 1961-1975

Partial Transcript: I forget which year it was. I think it was sixty-- is it, I think it was 1969 that that the famous Council of Southern Mountains conference...

Segment Synopsis: Kirby talks about the 1969 conference of the Council of the Southern Mountains, describing his personal experiences.

Keywords: Conferences; Discussions; Speeches

Subjects: Council of the Southern Mountains

Partial Transcript: And then of course they did the same thing all over again the next year at um, Lake Junaluska.

Segment Synopsis: Kirby discusses the Council of the Southern Mountains' 1970 meeting at Lake Junaluska. He also talks about Dan Gibson, a participant in the Clear Creek War against the coal companies, who rode with them to the meeting.

Keywords: Clear Creek War; Conferences; Dan Gibson; Larry Norton; Mountain Legal Rights Association; Stories

Subjects: Council of the Southern Mountains; Lake Junaluska (N.C.)

Partial Transcript: There seems like there was something about there being a lot of peop, that older people...

Segment Synopsis: Kirby discusses how traditional Appalachian culture tends to value the elderly more than the culture of urban areas. The interview is concluded.

Keywords: Elderly people; Elders; Folklorists; Outsiders; Politeness; Respect; Songs

Subjects: Appalachian Region--Social life and customs; Older people