Interview with William Stuart Nelson, March 3, 1964

Partial Transcript: New tape, new tape, new tape.

Segment Synopsis: Dr. Nelson describes his research travels in various African states, in which he polled leaders and members of various movements, such as Ndabaningi Sithole, about their philosophy on social movements and freedom struggle.

Keywords: Africa; Central Africa; East Africa; Ethiopia; Howard University; Ndabaningi Sithole; South Africa; Southern Rhodesia; Union Theological Seminary

Subjects: Black universities and colleges; Colonies; Imperialism; Nonviolence; Protest movements.; Research grants; Social movements; Universities and colleges

Partial Transcript: On the question of violence, um, may I read you a little passage from, um, Dr. Kenneth Clark--

Segment Synopsis: Dr. Nelson comments on the ideas circulating among the African American community regarding violence and nonviolence in demonstrations, as well as why so many people take an interest in Martin Luther King, Jr.

Keywords: Dr. Kenneth Clark; Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.; Medgar Evers; Social pathology

Subjects: African American leadership; African Americans--Conduct of life; Civil rights demonstrations; Civil rights movements--United States; Nonviolence; Passive resistance.; Protest movements.

Partial Transcript: Dr. Clark also says, or strongly implies, that this movement which has worked in the South, you see, he admits--

Segment Synopsis: A quote from Kenneth Clark on the development of the civil rights movement in the South is interpreted. Nelson then analyzes the movement's Southern origins, and the religious undertones within it. Religion in the South is also compared to religion in the North.

Keywords: Comparisons; Cultured; Discrimination by region; Dr. Kenneth Clark; Leadership; Life; Simplicity; Sophistication

Subjects: African Americans--Religion.; African Americans--Segregation; African Americans--Social conditions.; African Americans--Southern States.; Civil rights movements--United States; United States--Race relations.

Partial Transcript: Um, I was talking with Ralph Ellison about this point.

Segment Synopsis: Nelson analyzes a quote from Ralph Ellison on segregation. Nelson is found to agree with Ellison's ideas. Next, Nelson describes the effects of segregation upon Southern African Americans, and compares this situation to the reality that Northerners face. The notion of the white man's stereotype of black people is also examined.

Keywords: Comparisons; Consequences; Forces of oppression; North; Ralph Ellison; Repression; Resistance; South; Stereotypes

Subjects: African Americans--Segregation; African Americans--Social conditions.; African Americans--Southern States.; Civil rights movements--United States; United States--Race relations.

Partial Transcript: A psychiatrist I have a slight acquaintance with, who is a negro, made the remark to me that the new movement is a shift...

Segment Synopsis: The role of the Southern black mother is examined. Nelson articulates that black southern society continues to be matriarchal, and the mother plays a significant part in a child's life. In many cases, the mother acts as a catalyst for the child to fight segregation and repression. Recent instances of this are also mentioned.

Keywords: Fathers; Matriarchs; Mothers; Parents; Responsibilities; Roles; Society; Strength; The Sound and the Fury (Book); William Faulkner

Subjects: African Americans--Segregation; African Americans--Social conditions.; African Americans--Southern States.; Culture; United States--Race relations.

Partial Transcript: Let me switch the topic a little bit.

Segment Synopsis: Nelson responds to a quote by Arnold Rose regarding black history in schools. Nelson lists his two interpretations of black historical consciousness. The way in which African Americans view and teach their history is compared to that of the South, and is found to be very similar in several aspects. Lastly, Nelson also says that many African Americans view segregation as part of their historical and current identities.

Keywords: "Group consciousness"; Arnold Rose; Community; Comparisons; Identities; Opinions; Pride; Society; Southern United States; Unification; Views

Subjects: African Americans--Education.; African Americans--Race identity.; African Americans--Segregation; African Americans--Social conditions.; African Americans--Southern States.; History; United States--Race relations.

Partial Transcript: I suppose you are answering before I ask the question.

Segment Synopsis: Nelson talks of W.E.B. Dubois' concept of the split of culture experienced by African Americans. Nelson expresses his desire to find the positive attributes in his past as well, in connection to the split. The importance of group past, and then becoming a part of mankind as a whole is emphasized. Additionally, Frederick Douglass and the Civil War are discussed.

Keywords: "The split"; Frederick Douglass; Groups; Mankind; Past; Society; W.E.B. Dubois

Subjects: African Americans--Race identity.; African Americans--Social conditions.; Ancestry; Culture; United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865.; United States--Race relations.

Partial Transcript: Uh, Dr. Nelson, uh, why was the Lincoln, uh, Monument chosen as the spot for the March on Washington to reach its climax?

Segment Synopsis: Nelson explains why Lincoln is an important figure for African Americans and everyone as a whole. Lincoln and Indians' reverence for him (only second to Gandhi, according to Nelson) is explored. Lincoln's apparent racism is also deliberated upon. Nelson highlights the need to judge historical figures on the circumstances of the time period they lived in, not on today's modern standards. Lastly, Nelson speculates upon the future and the effects the civil rights movement will have had on society 100 years from now (from 1964).

Keywords: Abraham Lincoln; Civil rights movement; Context; Emancipation Proclamation; Ethics; Faults; Future; Heroes; History; Mahatma Gandhi; Mohandas Gandhi; Moral climate; Morals; People; Perspectives; Slavery; Society

Subjects: African Americans--Segregation; African Americans--Social conditions.; African Americans--Southern States.; Civil rights movements--United States; Lincoln, Abraham, 1809-1865 --Views on race relations; Lincoln, Abraham, 1809-1865--Views on slavery; United States--Race relations.

Partial Transcript: Let me ask a question about the Reconstruction.

Segment Synopsis: Nelson considers Gunnar Maynard's approach to revising the Reconstruction period following the Civil War. Nelson expresses the desire to hear opinions of economists and other respected figures on this issue (both past and present) before he can pass any accurate judgement on the actual program of Reconstruction. Lincoln's potential role in Reconstruction is also mentioned. Additionally, a quote from James Baldwin is read concerning the Southern mob and its effect on African Americans and movements of both violence and non-violence.

Keywords: Abraham Lincoln; Economists; Gunnar Maynard; James Baldwin; Non-punitive; Oppression; People; Politics; Reconstruction; Southern mobs

Subjects: African Americans--Segregation; African Americans--Social conditions.; African Americans--Southern States.; Civil rights movements--United States; History; United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865.; United States--Race relations.

Partial Transcript: Dr. Nelson, could you say something about the growth of your awareness...

Segment Synopsis: Nelson gives an outline of his life, and how his attitudes on segregation and racism developed throughout the years. The interviewee grew up in Kentucky, then served in World War I, where he became interested in ministerial life. Nelson's educational path to a PhD in theology is given as well. Nelson discusses his time working at universities in the South, and how his perception of segregation changed during this period. The interviewee's time in India, and recent work as the Dean of Howard University is also highlighted.

Keywords: Berlin (Germany); Churches; Dillard University; Doctors; Howard University; India; Life; Mahatma Gandhi; Minstrel shows; Mohandas Gandhi; New Orleans (La.); Paducah (Ky.); Paris (France); Publications; Shaw University; Thesis; U.S. Army; World War I; Yale Divinity School

Subjects: African American college students.; African Americans--Education.; African Americans--Religion.; African Americans--Segregation; African Americans--Social conditions.; African Americans--Southern States.; Racism; Theology; United States--Race relations.

Partial Transcript: You've been associated with Dr. King...

Segment Synopsis: Nelson briefly recounts his relationship with Martin Luther King Jr., and the two are found to have worked on several projects for the movement over the years. A comparison between the civil rights movements of the 1940s and 1960s is given. The origins of the 1960s movement are then explored.

Keywords: Collaborations; Comparisons; Documents; Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.; James Farmer; Mahatma Gandhi; Mohandas Gandhi; Movements; Similarities; Washington (D.C.)

Subjects: African Americans--Segregation; African Americans--Social conditions.; African Americans--Southern States.; Civil rights movements--United States; Nonviolence; Passive resistance.; Protest movements.; Racism; United States--Race relations.

Partial Transcript: This is not getting so far afield as it may seem at first glance.

Segment Synopsis: Nelson provides his definition of religion to Warren. Commitment to religion and its principles are emphasized. Nelson also briefly gives his opinion on a Brooklyn minister's decision to lift a ban on the controversial book "Fanny Hill" within his congregation.

Keywords: Beliefs; British literature; Brooklyn (N.Y.); Commitment; Doctrines; Fanny Hill (Book); Judgement; Supreme power; The New York Times; Truth

Subjects: African Americans--Religion.; Churches; Religion

Partial Transcript: Change of subject again.

Segment Synopsis: Nelson speculates upon the future of the youth in the movement once it ends. Their potential fate is compared to the disillusionment of youth who participated in social justice movements of the 1930s once they ended. Nelson compares the dynamics between the two movements as well. Next, Nelson talks of the rift between civil rights leaders, and declares that relations seem to be improving. Nelson also weighs in on the public school boycott occurring in New York City schools.

Keywords: Achievements; Boycott; Commitment; Comparisons; Divisions; Future; Goals; Improvements; Judgement; Leaders; New York City (N.Y.); Publicity; Risks

Subjects: African American leadership; African Americans--Education.; African Americans--Segregation; African Americans--Social conditions.; African Americans--Southern States.; Civil rights movements--United States; Civil rights workers; Discrimination in education.; Segregation in education.; Social justice; United States--Race relations.