00:00:00WILSON: Peace Corps Oral History Project interview with John Skeese
February 8, 2005, Jack Wilson interviewer. John let's start. If you
would just give me your full name, where, and when you were born.
SKEESE: Okay, my name is John Raphael Joseph Skeese. I was a junior for
a while then I was the, my son would have been the third and I could
have had the fourth, but anyway I was born in the suburb of Chicago
in 1933. So I'm coming on 72 now at this point. I was born up there;
we lived in a little town of Mokena. I grew up outside there for
a while from elementary school and I was about, I think I was about
ten; it was during war. My dad was a telephone man, worked for the
telephone company. And we went out and ended up going out to, what
00:01:00was it? Arizona, New Mexico, and California end up going to school
in some schools out there. And we were out there during the war for
a short time and then came back to Kentucky where he was born and my
mother was born in Illinois in Chicago. So anyway we came back and
went to Louisville for a while and he worked up there and I went to
school up there in Saint Matthews and Shively for a while. And then
he was transferred; he went down to Pineville again with the telephone
company. And then I grew up in Pineville from about 6th, 7th, 8th, and
9th grade. And then from Pineville we moved to Corbin, went to Saint
Camillus Academy in Corbin, and I graduated from there in high school.
And after that I went for a while to Cumberland College and I spent a
year and a half there. It was still a junior college, and then I went
from there to the University of Detroit for a year a so. And I was
00:02:00studying mechanical engineering and probably didn't study like I should
have. I went to welding school and dancing school. I finally was
working for Lincoln Mercury with my co-op program three months of work.
WILSON: So you graduated from--?
SKEESE: I didn't quite graduate yet.
WILSON: Oh, okay!
SKEESE: I'm still running around. So anyway I was drafted in the army
finally and spent oh a few months at Fort Knox. And we were the first
gyroscope division, the third army division to go to Germany. And went
over there and spent a number of months and had I been an R.A. and
been in one more year, I was stationed right near Elvis Presley. He
came in a year later but I missed him.
WILSON: So when would this have been?
SKEESE: This have been, oh I'm sorry 1955-'57 I was in the service.
WILSON: Okay.
SKEESE: And earlier since we had probably gone out west and done things
like that. We used to come to Kentucky and travel quite a bit. Dad
would take us to Washington in the summers on his vacation to travel.
00:03:00So when I was in Germany I decided I wanted to travel, so some
soldiers and I we traveled through Norway, Sweden, Denmark, France,
Italy, not Italy at that time but a number of the countries in northern
Europe. And then another time I went in this old German car which I
still have down through southern Europe and France and back and then
back home. So probably what started me with something like the Peace
Corps, these international work camps I've been in. I was in a--When
I was over in Germany one time, this was like I say in about 1957 I
was in the station there something waiting still with my uniform on or
something. And someone came up to me and offered to buy me a drink,
and this fellow didn't, just didn't have anything; you could tell that.
But he was so enthused to see an American and so grateful that he
offered me something to drink and everything, so we--I don't know how
00:04:00my German was then, but we talked for a while. And then another time
I was in Italy visiting some friends of family in Corbin who were of
Italian descent and same thing.
WILSON: This is after you came back?
SKEESE: No, this is still while I was over there in Germany traveling,
on my travels.
WILSON: Oh, okay.
SKEESE: And I visited some family friends from the people in Corbin and
the same thing happened in the little cafe or something where someone
came up to me and liked the Americans and offered me a drink. And
they just made me feel like where people can accept you like that it's
just you want to get around the world and meet more people you might
say and try to do things for others. So anyway I came back home and
decided since my grades probably weren't that good earlier I went back
to Cumberland College still two years, raised my grades, and then I
came in the summer of '58 to Berea College. And in Berea I spent the
summer there and then I spent the next two years. And since I had a
00:05:00background in math and since I didn't finish my engineering I wanted
to prove to myself I could do it. So I ended up getting a degree in
physics and mathematics.
WILSON: At Berea?
SKEESE: This was at Berea now, yes.
WILSON: Okay.
SKEESE: And I hadn't planned on--
WILSON: What year would that have been?
SKEESE: Okay this would have been 1958 through 1960. So I graduated in
'60 and I had--When I was overseas I learned a little bit of German;
I liked languages. So part of my student labor besides the physics
department was teaching German. I taught the regular class two days
a week and the regular teacher had it three days a week. And that
helped, helped my German a little more and I took some Spanish. So
when I was graduating or before I graduated in '60 I had met a Lebanese
fellow and he told me about international work camps. And that's where
someone goes and just you get, you probably pay your way over, you
get a place to stay, and you get something to eat, and you just do a
00:06:00project of some sort. So I thought well, maybe I'd like to go. So I
signed up with the American Friends Service Committee, got accepted,
got some money from the Quaker Organization here. Berea College gave
me some money that a judge in Louisville had given to give to some
needy student. And I was all set to go over to Spain and work on a
project, international work camp. But before we went my Spanish class
was going to Mexico for two weeks to stay with the Mexican family to
practice their Spanish, so I went down to--I didn't fly down like they
did. I went down in a bus or something to Laredo or I think it was or
El Paso; I forgot. And went across the border, got in a Mexican bus,
and then went down to stay with the family I was going to stay with.
And what surprised me back then was how poor really people can be. I
think man might have made $25 in his whole month of working. And it
00:07:00was really surprising about the differences and how you know how much
poverty we have in the world. So anyway I came back, I went up to
Penndel Hill up in Philadelphia to study with the Quakers to get ready
to go over to my international work camp. And surprising thing, this
happened later. I'll bring this in now how you can meet people around
the world. The--There was this African American who was my roommate
on the boat or a roommate there at Penndel Hill and we were in the boat
together, went over to overseas. And then he went to his project and
I went to mine and we never saw each other again at that point, or you
know for a few years.
WILSON: So you went by ship?
SKEESE: Went by ship.
WILSON: And this is 1960?
SKEESE: This is 1960 I guess it was, yeah. 1960, but this was not the
Peace Corps. This was the American Friends Service Committee, which
00:08:00was an international work camp organization. So we went to France, went
to Paris and I know I was just about late to miss my train going down
to Spain. And we went down to Spain, got there, and we still had time
before we went to our work camp in northern Spain, which is Santander,
which is not too far Bilbao. I think they're having trouble there
right now with insurgents or something. But anyway Pamplona wasn't
far, and someone said well why don't we go to Pamplona and see the
running of the bulls? So we decided; we went there. We saw you know
to see the running of the bulls, and here I was a college graduate. I
probably you know I guess you think engineering and math and science
should know enough literature to know things. And I remember I had
some good seats and after we got done, one of the people there that
were going to the work camp, we were going together, they said, "Did
you see Ernest Hemingway?" And I said, "Who's he?" and I thought here
00:09:00that was the last year that I think he was over in Spain. And we
could have gone probably to a little cafe or something and sat down and
talked to him, had a drink with him, but I didn't think about that. So
that was San Fermin, running of the bulls. But anyway we went to our
work camp and spent a number of weeks there. And at the work camp we
were building, we stayed in nice--Excuse me. It was an old, oh I guess
I nice house I guess at one time. A bigger house than usual and it
was going to be built into an international, a student center. So we
were there working it and we had people from France, from Switzerland,
a few from America, from a number of different countries. And we
00:10:00just went ahead and worked on the project, and when it was over with I
wasn't ready to go home and I wanted to do something else. So I wrote
to the Service Center International, SCI out of Switzerland which was
an international work camp group from Switzerland there. So I wrote
to them and asked if they had somewhere I could go, so well they had
an opening in Greece and they could help me get down there, but they
couldn't you know. That was it and my ticket was from I think Paris
or somewhere, so I had to contact ahead and see if I could have that
held back. So I went ahead and decided well I'm going to go to Greece
and I'll find some way to get back or something like that. So anyway
I went with one of the people, one of the workers there, one of the
Spanish workers. And we went up to northern Spain up in the Pyrenees.
So I went up there to spend a few weeks with him, and it was neat.
00:11:00It was about the highest point you could go in the Pyrenees. I
think I even hiked up a little higher, and it was not too far from the
border. And later I went through there again but we'll get to that.
So anyway I spent some time with him and then I had to work my way
and get back over to Greece, so finally I got on the train and I can't
remember where I left out probably about, probably was Paris to go over
there to down to through Italy and then up through former Yugoslavia
and then down to northern Greece. So went to Greece and the funniest
thing I liked languages, but I got off the train and all the signs
were different. There was no, you know I never noticed that before the
different alphabet and everything. So you know you asked somebody can
you speak English and they flip their head up and say, "Oh!" or they
00:12:00just click or something a little bit and it means oxi, no. So they're
shaking their head up and down would be like that's saying yes, but
it's no. So anyway I finally found a little place where a bookstore
or something where I got a little Greek dictionary where I might learn
a few phrases. And finally I was able to find my way to this Greek
fellow who's going to help us with the international work camp there
who spoke some English, so that took care of that. So we went to our
work camp in northern Greece, and we were going to build a water line
from one village to another, and we were going to dig it out with picks
and shovels and everything. And I remember it was kind of unique to
do this and one thing that got me was some German girl. I might feel
like I'm tough or something and be digging away and there's this German
girl, kind of a stocky girl, man she could really go! And I said, "Man,
I've got to do better than this. I can't look bad," so we went ahead
00:13:00and worked on the project. And we stayed in a little village, and at
first we had--We were in tents at one time and then they had to move us
inside a dorm and inside the not a dorm but inside a school building,
which was going to be a dorm. This was in the summer and they had it
really, you know it was very modest you might say but it's still the
boys and girls were in the same room from the different countries but
people were good about that. Except I think there was a Greek girl
and Spanish or a Portuguese girl that would only have their beds out
in the hallway because they just couldn't see that togetherness. But
anyway we went ahead and worked on our project and then they came along
and some machine was going to dig it, so we finished up what we had
to do. So but the thing is too I remember eating or drinking in the
morning. All we had was some kind of a tea or something and then a
00:14:00piece of bread. And everyone would take the same cup; you dip in and
drink out of the cup and pass it on. I think nowadays man that'd be
kind of dangerous and he'd you know eat your bread or something. But
that project finished; I wasn't ready to go home. So I went ahead and
hitchhiked with some of the people. We hitchhiked through a number
of, well we were going down to Athens. This was in northern Greece
where I was at this time. It was Saloniki or Thessaloniki where the
project was. I should have said that earlier, but then we hitchhiked
down to, well we went through Delphi. We saw the oracle where the
oracle was. Beautiful place it was just if you've been there. But
it was beautiful and then--Let's see I remember one place I was even
hitchhiking by myself. I can't remember why. I remember hitchhiking
up through the mountains, stopping. I think back then there's an
article in the old newspaper from Berea College the old Pinnacle,
00:15:00where it showed about the travels and everything there. And I think
I was living on $0.12 a day back then. This was like I say about 1960
going on '61 there, but 1960. And travel like that and I remember
hitchhiking and sleeping in old buildings they were building alongside
of the road near the airport. I think it was Larissa or something in
Greece, and then well anyway hitchhiked down to Athens and they had a
project down there and the project was down there, it was building a
home for this poor family, a refugees family you might say. It was a
refugee area. What do you call? Let's see not the ghetto but different
areas they have where you know. They're refugees I guess, refugee
area outside of--It was in Paris Ost, I think that was the name of it
outside of Athens there and this group was working on a house for a
00:16:00family that had triplets and a little boy. And they were going to--I
remember triplets. I'm sure it was like that triplets anyway. And
it was a young couple, and we worked on that project on the weekends.
Or no, yeah we did with the project with the group. And I just
decided, well I'll just stay there with them and work on the project.
So they had a bed outside. It wasn't completely covered or anything
but it wasn't that rainy or anything, so they just had springs and I
put cardboard down on my sleeping bag, and I slept outside the place.
People didn't have much but they had the meals with them, whatever
they had. And I stayed there and I think there's an article in a Greek
Magazine the Uneka where it says I had my beard then and I supposedly
shaved it off. It's got a picture without it and shaved it off and
put it in the last batch of mortar for the house there. So anyhow I
00:17:00had some many friends there. I learned a little bit of Greek and this
one fellow, he couldn't speak any really English. No one could speak
English well I was with there, and my Greek--I was learning it but this
man didn't even have a high school education but he had a knack for
teaching how to learn a language by making, you know saying something
and pointing. And I learned a lot of Greek from this fellow. And
anyway I met some other friends around the neighborhood there and one,
my best friend you might say spoke German. And I didn't speak Greek
and he didn't speak English, so we'd speak to each other in German
whenever we'd go somewhere. And he'd take me out with his cousins and
things and naturally you had to have a chaperone with an older brother
or cousin or something. A girl couldn't go out by herself. So anyway
we go out dancing on Sundays or whatever and do the Charleston and
stuff like that, and came back and I guess I was working on a project
00:18:00up there and the family down below there. I was still single and the
family, I think I was about 28 at the time and the family--23, yeah
something like that. And the family below noticed I guess some of
their friends where they had a daughter or something. And finally
one day they asked me I guess in their language do you want her, which
meant do you like her. And naturally I was young and thinking about
well it's about time to settle down. So anyway what ended up is it
became a fixed marriage and I was going to come back to the States and
go back and get married, which was my intentions. So I came back and I
was back for a week or so and probably had to get a job and everything,
and one of the deans up at Berea College called me up one time. I used
to go visit him; he was in Scouts and everything. So I'd go visit him
and Scouts comes later. But anyway went to visit him and he says oh,
00:19:00he knew I had been in these international work camps and he said, "The
Peace Corps is starting. You might be interested in this!" And I read
it and they wanted teachers for Africa, and I thought well I don't
know. My grades maybe weren't that high or something. Maybe I better
you know--I think I applied and then I said well maybe, maybe it won't
work out. So I didn't finalize it. And they were going to train at
UCLA, and all of a sudden I got a call from UCLA and asked me if I was
still interested in the Peace Corps. And I said well I haven't taken
the exam yet. I hadn't taken the exam; you know the thing to get in.
He said no don't worry, just come on out.
WILSON: Okay, you were saying that you hadn't taken the exam for the
Peace Corps but they invited you anyway.
SKEESE: Yeah they invited me and I went out. First thing we were
staying at a little hotel you might say, a small hotel across from the
girls dorm at UCLA, which I thought was neat. And I think it was in
00:20:00let's see Rio, I'm trying to think of the ritzy part of--Oh I can't
think right now, of Los Angeles, something wood. I can't think of it
right now; I have a mental block. But anyway it was right in there
where UCLA is located, and we stayed in this hotel. We had our meals
over there at the girls' dorm, which I thought was neat. We ate with
the girls over there, met a lot of friends like that and in our groups
too. And we studied a number of different things there prior to going
overseas. We studied something about African history, something about
Nigeria, something about the languages. But there are 250 different
languages and not dialects in Nigeria.
WILSON: So let me stop you just long enough to ask then the project that
you were training for was for where?
SKEESE: It was for teachers, oh for Nigeria.
00:21:00
WILSON: For Nigeria.
SKEESE: It was for Nigeria.
WILSON: And this was 1960?
SKEESE: This was 1961 and we started training in September of '61.
WILSON: So this would have been the first group or one of the first
groups?
SKEESE: No, we were one of the first groups. Yes, we were one of the
first groups and we trained out there. And one thing I might, well
I'll mention that later about--I forgot. I think I'm number 170 or
180. I was going to check it out as a volunteer back when it first
started. We weren't the first group. I think we were, maybe it was
the sixth group and the total entity of the you know of the beginning.
But it wasn't the first group. We were the third group for Nigeria I
remember. I think the third group.
WILSON: Okay, that's what I was really asking.
SKEESE: Yeah I think something like that, third or second, I forgot.
Well I will say this. In the first group that went to Nigeria there
also was a graduate of Berea College. So I was their second volunteer
to go into the Peace Corps from Berea College. And then later, well
00:22:00I'll get to that later. There will be a third one. The third one
also a physics major, but and I had classes with him while we were in
school. But anyway we trained at UCLA and we trained in like I say
history of the country. We trained in some of the languages just to
get an idea, but there were so many. You weren't sure I don't think
at this time what part, whether you were going to the north for Hausa,
whether you're going to the western region or going to the eastern
region, which I went to which was for Igbo where I went. But anyway--
WILSON: And the official language in Nigeria and of instruction is
English?
SKEESE: Second language would be English, yes, yes. That'd be English.
And excuse me; you go to a lot of communities and actually where
they didn't speak English at all. But anyway we trained and I guess
I still I like to do arts and crafts and dance and anything like that.
So sometimes in the evenings if we had a meeting it wasn't maybe that
00:23:00necessary or something, I went to a German lederhosen dance group and
I danced with them once a month or something like that. And then also
there was a Hillel Israeli dance group and I'd go and dance with them
sometimes and learn any kind of dance I could learn. But I still made
my commitment to the Peace Corps to see what I had to do. So anyway
we had our training out there, and I thought it was good. And I was
accepted and I forgot. I can't remember; there's a friend of mine has
a site on the internet right now and it has our initial Peace Corps
group where we trained. And he's a long--
WILSON: And so that training had a little bit of language, a lot of
history of Nigeria?
SKEESE: A history of Nigeria.
WILSON: Some cultural?
SKEESE: Right. Oh and I will have to say too, since I was going to
be a physics major we went to one of the high schools and did some
00:24:00observing. I can't remember if we did some student teaching too, but
we did some observing. We spent time in one of the leading schools in
Los Angeles to get our training; we did that.
WILSON: So you had some teacher training and some components?
SKEESE: So we had some teacher training too. Now one thing about the
Peace Corps back then, they didn't want you to be a teacher. They
didn't want teachers to come and they wanted to train you, and that
was part of the whole thing because if you were already a teacher you
know it said that you know they would rather have people that weren't
teachers. I don't know whether we actually had some teachers, but I
think all of them were from other things that they did.
WILSON: The class of bachelor of art generalists to become made into
teachers, right?
SKEESE: Yeah that might be it. That would probably be it. So anyway we
had our training. Can't think of something else out there; and then it
was about right around Christmas or so we met in New York where we had
to get ready to leave.
WILSON: How long was the training?
00:25:00
SKEESE: Oh, the training was three months. It started in September and
we finished about December. September, October, November, December,
yeah later December. So we went to New York and I think I got there
a day early, and one of the Peace Corps volunteers I met and kind of
toured a little bit of New York to get ready to go. And then we had
the Pan Am flight, which was a Peace Corps clipper. That's what they
put on there.
WILSON: Charter flight?
SKEESE: Charter flight, and John--Jack Kennedy was supposed to see us
off at the airport. He couldn't make it so he sent Sargent Shriver.
My photos I took aren't that good, but there was an article in Time
Magazine back then where it shows a couple of the--Sargent Shriver with
a couple of the Peace Corps volunteers playing the guitar or something
and I guess singing. What is it? I forgot. I'm trying to think of the
song there--Jambo or Kumbaya--Kumbaya or something like that before we
00:26:00went. So anyway we went over and flew across on our flight. I think
we stopped at the Canary Islands for a minute and then went on. And
like I say, here I was going to go back to Greece and all of a sudden
I wound up going to Africa on another adventure you might say. And
back then I used to tell my father, well money's not everything. But
as I raise my grandkids or raise my families now or raised them, it
makes a difference now in retirement. But anyway we flew and got, and
this is the thing. Earlier I told you about this fellow, this African
American I was on the ship with that I had trained for the American
Friends Service Committee. Here we are, we're getting off the plane in
Lagos there we're getting off in Nigeria. And all of a sudden a number
of Africans over there, and I figured they're all Nigerians coming to
00:27:00greet us. And there were some, I guess some of the earlier volunteers
also came to greet us. So there you had a mixture in the group out
there. And this one African American fellow, which I thought was
Nigerian, was yelling you know, "Hey John Skeese! Hey John Skeese!" and
I wondered man there's nobody that I know in Africa yet, no Nigerian
here. So anyway went over, he was the same friend that I had known
earlier in the American Friends Service Committee in the middle of
nowhere. He went in the Peace Corps also and here I had met him over
there. And I think we roomed together while we had our training, our
indoctrination there.
WILSON: In country?
SKEESE: In the country. And oh I know what I wanted to say! Back in the
Peace Corps I had a little beard. Back not the Peace Corps but when
I was going for training at UCLA I had grown a beard a little bit, and
back when I had a beard then people didn't have beards much. You were
a beatnik or wild or something else. So anyway whenever I went out for
my training again first out there at that hotel, the first thing the
00:28:00guy at the reception, guy at the desk said to me was, "Oh! Our first
beatnik," so I thought, "Well I better shave so I don't get selected
out of the Peace Corps." And I did shave but I probably didn't have
to. But I shaved, but when I got in Nigeria I think I asked one of our
people that was telling us you know I guess indoctrination. I guess
that's a fair good word for it or getting you ready.
WILSON: Or in country training or in country orientation.
SKEESE: In country training, and there was a guy there one of the
trainers there that had a beard and everything. And I said well
you know do you think it'd be alright for me to have a beard? I
was thinking of the colonialists, the English who had beards, and
maybe they were kind of anti-colonists. This was the first year of
independence too if I remember correctly in 1960 I think.
WILSON: '61? [Editor's note: It was 1960.]
SKEESE: '61, okay it was their first year. And I asked somebody. He
00:29:00says no, there's no problem. So later we'll find out I did grow a
beard and had long hair. I was a weird one. But anyway we had to
go on a train. They didn't have any way of the bridge of the Niger
wasn't built there to Onitsha. So we had to go north in a train and
then come back and go south for a ways to go down to where I was, would
be stationed.
WILSON: Which was?
SKEESE: Which was Onitsha, which was on the--It had at one time the
largest what do you call that? I'm thinking of a bazaar, but what is it?
WILSON: Well, just market.
SKEESE: Largest, yeah there it is. The largest market under one roof,
well big tin roofs under you say under one roof there in the--I guess
in Africa at that time. And like I say we had to cross on a ferry.
We didn't have the boats so that's the reason. Oh no, we didn't cross
the ferry then, but that's the way transportation would go across for
the roads would be across the ferry before the bridge was built. But
00:30:00anyway we got down and we had you know they told us what school we were
going to. And I happened to be in a Catholic mission school. Another
friend of mine went to the Anglican mission school, and we had a number
of schools outside of town where a number of the other volunteers were.
WILSON: So your assignment there was to do what then?
SKEESE: My assignment was to teach physics and mathematics.
WILSON: At the Catholic secondary school?
SKEESE: At the secondary school, yes.
WILSON: Okay.
SKEESE: And it so happened that some of the kids I had were equivalent
to our seniors in high school and first year college level. So they
were pretty sharp kids, and then I had a little bit of the lower level,
which is still in you know in the high school. But I had to really
do a lot of prep and everything for them because and it seemed like
if you wanted to tell the kids how to relate, and I always did that
because I had a technical background and everything and try to relate
to something practical. A student would raise his hand and say, "Sir,
00:31:00that's not in the syllabus." So the time, you know you're wasting my
time. Don't waste my time with that kind of stuff. So I went ahead
and tried to show them how it was important and we'd go ahead and
cover the material. But they would kind of study as a person it seemed
like more so than some of our students would. They would you know
you didn't realize it but they're kind of studying you and everything
and you hope they're getting the material down all the time. Labs,
we did our labs. We had to get them ready for the, like I say the
testing. And the tests would be sent from England. They didn't have
them. They had the lower form and upper form, which I was teaching.
And like I say upper form was like the first year of college level.
But they were testing to get ready for the exams that would come at
the end of the year, and then if they passed it they could go on. If
they didn't you know--And I didn't have any discipline problems either
because if they were talking I would just not stop, I would just stop
talking or something and not go on. And one of the kids would turn
00:32:00to the other one and say, "Shut up! Shut up!" So I had no discipline
problem whatsoever. So I enjoyed that. Then I spent time I think.
One thing I was able to say I guess on here is not only being one of
the early volunteers, I was the first volunteer to have a motorcycle.
I still have it out in the back right now--1960 Honda 250.
WILSON: You got to bring it back with you?
SKEESE: I brought it back with me, but that was after you know because
after the Peace Corps I didn't go right home anyway. I was running
around or traveling you might say. But anyway I had the principal of
the school buy it, Father Tavo, no Father I forgot his name. So anyways
but anyway he bought it in his name because the Peace Corps didn't say
you couldn't have it, and they didn't say yes. And I thought well, if
I ask they may say no. So rather than have them say no, I'll go ahead
and have him buy it and then you know you're not working things but
still it kind of--Because there were so many things I wanted to do and
00:33:00I needed a form of transportation to travel around so ended up I paid
him for it and finally got it in my name. And I did I think when I
got done I covered about 30,000 miles on my motorcycle in Africa, a lot
of it during the Peace Corps. I traveled around through West Africa
there and then I also went to the Cameroons and back. But this one
time this friend and I--And oh yeah I started to say, on our oh midterm
break or whatever you want to say it's around December over there.
With the Peace Corps you don't get your whole six weeks just to run
around. You have to spend part of the time, and I think you remember,
part of the time you have to work on some project either for the school
or something. So when I was there I heard about another international
work camp from around the world they were having in Port Harcourt,
00:34:00which was south of me there from Onitsha in the eastern region. And
I decided well maybe I ought to just go down there and work in the
work camp for a few weeks and that would you know fill the bill and
that would also be a new experience for me. So I went down there and
I worked. We were building a rehabilitation center for young people,
and I went down there and I spent a few weeks laying blocks and things
like that. And I caught that, I met people from Ghana who I visited
later and we'd see. And I met an American and I met a number of people
from--Let's see, there were no Peace Corps there like I was. I was
the only Peace Corps volunteer that was in the country that decided to
do something where people were coming from all over again working. So
I worked down there and after it was over with I thought that was a
great experience and made a lot of friends. And I remember one story I
00:35:00guess. I don't know if we want stories here too or not.
WILSON: Sure.
SKEESE: But I remember going along and you know I had picked up their
lingo where if you want to call a guy a redneck or something you call
him a bushman. So I remember going along and I was going to go with
one of the Nigerian fellows there and we were going to go to a little
reception for the people working on that project. So we were going
and we come to a--We had the right of way and this other fellow had
the stop, but he went through it pretty fast or something and I'm on
a motorcycle with this friend, Nigerian behind me. And I'm yelling
you know, "Bushman! Bushman!" you know and just you know it was funny.
I wasn't meaning anything. And when we went into the reception the
first thing I saw was this guy all dressed. You know he's one of the
dignitaries to receive, and I thought man I hope he doesn't remember me
yelling at him. But I thought that was pretty unique.
WILSON: Well tell me, let me back you up just slightly. Tell me a
00:36:00little bit about your living situation and you know your initial
adjustments to West African food and things like that.
SKEESE: Oh yeah, okay yeah. Well probably I feel like, yeah I should
have told about that. I thought it was--I thought well my initial
idea was when I was going in the Peace Corps I was going to go to
some village and I was going to be like the Pied Piper and I would be
leading the kids you know and taking them to class and teaching them
like that, but it was nothing. My school was one of the top schools
in the eastern region of Nigeria. You might say we had the track
records and good soccer team and everything else, so it wasn't the
way I pictured it. And it was a nice school to be teaching at. I had
naturally with what was it equivalent to a private's pay in the army
back then, about $90 a month was your--
00:37:00
WILSON: Living allowance.
SKEESE: Living allowance, no I think they put so much in the bank for us
back home and you got the allowance.
WILSON: $75 a month?
SKEESE: $75, that's what it was $75. And over there we got whatever the
counterpart, whatever the Nigerian teacher would be making for I mean
you know for his living allowance and everything, that's what we would
get. So naturally they had their cooks and stewards, so naturally
we did. So I had a cook and a steward, so that makes it pretty nice.
Your water you had to boil it, you had to filter it. And you had
that. And like I say with the motorcycle I tried to visit anywhere I
could. I'd go home with the cook to visit his family in the villages
so I could get to know the Nigerians. I really enjoyed that; I'd stay
all night with them. Then also I have to say I decided I wanted to
00:38:00meet the expatriates too, the Europeans to get to know them to know
both of them. So which I couldn't afford in the States; I was a member
of a country club there. So I was a member and we'd finish up eating
sometimes in the afternoon about, I think these things have changed a
lot now too. We'd finish up about two o'clock maybe, you take a nap,
then you go over to the country club and swim and you know and maybe
play pool or something like that, which was kind of neat I thought but--
WILSON: Were Nigerians members of this club as well?
SKEESE: Yes, yes, Nigerian, yes. There were some Nigerian members,
yes. It wasn't completely--I think at first I can't remember if it
was, but I know a friend of mine that was teaching next door later in
the little duplex we lived in later was from South Africa, and he was
from the same group that Miriam Makeba was from. I can't get that
click language, but anyway he was from that and he would go to the club
00:39:00later. But I can't remember a lot. Usually a beer, cooks there and
everything like that. But there were, as much as I remember there were
a few. It was you know.
WILSON: And what about the food? Did you, were you--?
SKEESE: Okay about the food, one thing our steward, our cook would do is
maybe go downtown and there was a little, oh a little store you might
say. I can't remember the name they had for it that would have some
imported food. It would have some canned food and things like that,
so yes they would make that sometimes. And very good at making some
of the Indian dishes, so you'd have the Indian food because evidently
they had a lot with the rice and with the--I can't remember the names
of some of my dishes now. Curry, curry, and things like that. I do
remember whenever Peace Corps would visit me, the volunteers, I don't
00:40:00think I was cheap. What I would give them usually would be, I'd have
a glass of water or something and I had these little tablets. They're
called fizzies and it makes kind of a carbonated drink, and I'd put
those in for the drink and then I'd make a--What was it? A, oh I'll
think of it in a minute with a casserole. A turkey--Oh! tuna fish
casserole, which is very easy to make and it fills you up. And I made
tuna fish casserole unless it was a bigger meal or something. But
the meals, we would go out sometimes. And I did like to go out and
eat some of the Nigerian food, and still now when we go up and have
our--When the Peace Corps has our national conferences and I go with
the Friends of Nigeria, we usually have a big like the other groups
too probably, we usually have a big get-together and have just the
Nigerian dishes, which I did last August up in Chicago, which I enjoyed
00:41:00very much. So I got to like them. Only one time we stopped in a
little--Jack and I, Jack was this friend also ran around with me on the
motorcycle. And we stopped at a little place in Western Nigeria and
we had some fish, and I can't remember anything hotter than that fish
that we had there, and what you didn't even get to the inside yet. I
mean no, this was the inside and it was the hottest thing I've ever
tasted. I don't know if I could handle that again, but it was really
hot. But we used to like the different Nigerian dishes and everything.
There was one dish that's some kind of a--You remember it's a spinach,
it's very oh I can't remember. It's very like egg yolks or something
when you bring it out. It's--But people really got to like it. But I
did, I enjoyed learning as much of the culture. Like I say, I wanted
to learn and spend time with them, but I also spent time with the--I
00:42:00had some friends that were German, some of them were Greek, and I
think when I made a trip after the Peace Corps I was able to visit my
Greek friends in Lagos, which was the western region. And I got all
my parts. He let me go through the event to stay there and get all
my parts for the motorcycle at cost. So you know a number of friends
like that helped, helped out. But I met a lot of Irish friends. My
roommate next door was from Ireland and he came to the States. He
got his doctorate in biology, but I haven't seen him in many years now
since the '60s, middle '60s.
WILSON: Do you remember having any kind of adjustment problems when you
first went?
SKEESE: No I don't think. You know I feel like I don't know whether
it's just me. I never really felt any adjustment problems because like
I say I thought it was going to be little villages and everything, and
00:43:00it wasn't but that didn't affect me because I would still go out in the
villages. And it seemed like I had seen poor people before you might
say in once sense in Greece and in Spain, other countries. And I've
always felt like sometimes it seems like the person can be real poor
but can just take you in. They've got the bigger hearts sometimes.
And I found that in Greece when we were traveling through, this friend
and I. And we got taken in some--Oh no this was in Africa traveling at
this--People just took us right in and they didn't have anything, but
they let us stay with them.
WILSON: Okay I sort of derailed you. You were starting to talk about
some of your travels either you know during your service and then maybe
later.
SKEESE: But I can say a couple things about at the school and everything
there. There's all kinds of stories I could probably tell about
00:44:00different things that happened and everything, which I thought were
unique. Now one thing I used to do when I was teaching high school
here, I had a class of 41 and I worked with one group and say, "Alright
if you're good I'll tell you some stories," you know which were true.
And then I'd get to the other group and if they're quiet I'll tell
them, and the kids used to like hearing my stories. I even had to
tell one to some seventh graders last week that were really interested.
Oh! But I will go back then and tell you when I was working in an
international work camp in Port Harcourt there. After it was over
with there was a French girl, and I thought it would be nice to if she
wanted to see some of Nigeria while she was there, and she said yes.
And I had to explain to the kids, this is a story they always heard
about the French girl. And I told them it was a platonic relationship,
you know and I had to explain that. Anyway I brought her up to Onitsha
where I lived and I think we, oh I don't know if it was that afternoon
00:45:00or whether we rested one day and then the next afternoon we were going
to leave out and go up to what they call Jos Plateau. And that's
where you don't have the tsetse fly or anything like that. They raise
cattle, but they also have a cattle ranch, which is a resort area for
people to go to and you know or just to go to and then relax a little
bit and ride horses or play tennis or whatever they wanted to do. And
there's a big story. I don't' know if we've got time for that--that
story going to the ranch or something. As we were going out it was
dark. I could tell you that. I don't know if we--Okay, well this is
a good story I think. We were going along and it just shows the way
we visualize Africa sometime as being maybe cannibalistic or a bear,
whatever. Because I remember back when I was first in Onitsha there
at my place where I was teaching; I remember this is one of the early
days. And I heard drums in the distance beating, and my first thoughts
00:46:00were, "Oh, here's this white man coming in our community, going to
cause problems or something," and here it was it lets your thoughts you
get--But it was someone that was a night watchman or something letting
everybody know it was okay. And that's the thought. Well anyway going
up through this area, I think I had read about the Tivepeople. As
we went up, this would be going--Jos Plateau was kind or northeast of
Onitsha there, and we were going and stopped to stay with a friend and
had something to eat in the afternoon--
WILSON: Side two of interview with John Skeese February 8, 2005. John,
you were starting to tell me a story about taking this French girl I
guess on your motorcycle.
SKEESE: On the motorcycle, on the back of the motorcycle.
WILSON: Up to the Jos Plateau?
SKEESE: The Jos Plateau so she could see some of that area, and we were
going along, stopped at a friend's in the afternoon and had something
00:47:00to eat. And it was getting late in the day and we probably should
have stayed with him, but we though we'd go on because I had no idea
how far. And we were in the gravel roads for I think blacktop and
then gravel for a while and finally it was really a dirt road. I
wasn't paying any attention. We were going along, it started raining.
It was getting late in the evening and the road became just slick as
everything, and it's kind of round at the top so you could slide off.
So I remember we were going along and all of a sudden the motorcycle
just slides out from under us, and it was pitch black. So anyway we
get the motorcycle stood up and we're sitting there wondering well,
what are we going to do now? It's late at night, no place to stay, so
we had an orange so we started eating an orange. And all of a sudden
some guy comes down the road who was from, you know, a more educated
person who spoke some English. And he might have spoke their language
first then he finally said you know, "Who is that?" And I just might
have, I forgot what I said, who we were or something. He said, "Well
what are you doing?" And I told him we're eating an orange. So I
00:48:00guess that made it you know a little different, so he came over and
started talking to us. And like I say he spoke English, and he was
from a village right there. He was home for holidays or for a visit
or something, and he offered you know. He said well you know, wondered
where we were going to stay and we didn't know. He said, "Well why
don't you stay in my village tonight?" So I was still--This was an
area--It was the Tiv people, which have I think the reputation for
maybe being a little--Oh I can't think of what the word would be to be
fair with it, but it would be a little rougher group than some of the
other groups like my Igbo group or something. So I you know didn't
know, but I still felt fairly safe with everybody so I said well. He
says, "You want to come and see where you'd stay or something?' So he
got on the back of my motorcycle, we left. Annie was her name. We
left her on the side of the road there, so I went back in over the
00:49:00cassava plants. We went up to one of the roads or something and then
crossed into the village. And there were these little huts, I think
we were rounded top, I don't know straw or whatever, bamboo huts.
And they were kind of in that little village circling around there or
something. So we went inside his hut there with this family. I think
his older parent was there, grandparent or something, and there was a
bamboo kind of lean, chair where you could lean back or something. It
was leaning back and you had a long extension at the bottom for the
legs where you could put your feet on top there. And then they had a
little daybed there or something. And then some kids were in there.
And I can't remember too much. They had a fire in the center. So at
that time when we were outside or something too we had heard some kind
00:50:00of crying, or not crying but some singing or something in the village
next door and wanting to learn as much about customs and everything
of people we could, we asked them could we maybe go over there. So he
took us with a lantern, and you know it wasn't fast or anything.
WILSON: Annie is back with you now?
SKEESE: Annie is with me there, yeah. Oh I'm sorry, I had to go back
and pick up Annie. Yeah okay. I went back and said okay we'll stay.
I went back and brought Annie back, and you know we had gone, checked
the place out, and we were going to go over there then to see what
happened, you know what it was in the next village. So we went down
through this area around a little creek or something and he said,
"There's spirits down there and they don't really like to go down there
alone or at night or anything." So he took us up to the next village
and different custom. Here was an elderly fellow that had died and he
was in this one hut, and he was laying there on the bamboo slab bed or
something and they would go over to him every now and then and stretch
00:51:00his arms and legs so rigor mortis wouldn't set in. And it was happy.
They would be singing and everything. So there was another hut with
all the men sitting around drinking their palm wine. It was a good
occasion, so we went in there and sat down and the guys, I guess the
way some guys are or something you know see you with a woman. They
thought she was my wife I guess. But anyway we're sitting there and
the guys you know passing around the palm wine and they punch you and
say it gives you that natural power or something, so I think I looked at
Annie and joked a little bit and said, "Natural power!" and she gave me
a dirty look. So that took care of that. So anyway we finished there
visiting with them, and we went back to the village. But the thing
was we're sleeping there or getting ready to sleep and I remember we
each had our sleeping bag. And I remember one of the kids or I don't
know who did it or something all of a sudden pinching my toe a little
bit to see what it was like. I did have earlier some little Nigerian
children come up to me when I was walking near in the southern part of
00:52:00Nigeria there come and feel my arms and everything to see if there was
a difference between a white man and a black man there. And then we-
-Let's see, oh yeah we went and we were sleeping in that, were trying
to sleep. You know it was kind of scary still, and in the middle of
the morning we hear this noise. And I probably hadn't fallen asleep
much and he's still over there in his little bamboo bed you might say
sitting up. And all of a sudden we hear this sound like, "Ay-ay-ay-
ay-ay! Ay-ay-ay-ay-ay!" And that's enough to make your hair stand up
because you know you think again, well they must think we're the cause
of the guy to die, which again you get all these weird thoughts. So
anyway the guy to die, so he you know I hear him say, "I wonder what
that is." And if he doesn't know you know you wonder. So he goes out
and he comes back in and what it was was in the morning we saw this
00:53:00man. He had told us then. And we saw this man sitting outside his hut
and he was just crying and everything. And what happened was that in
the other village his baby had died. When a baby dies it's sad. And
it's kind of you know for us it was scary. So anyway we knew what the
problem was and we were getting ready to go finish our trip up the Joss
Plateau and the--As we were leaving the villages realized, they gave
us a chicken. I can't remember if the chicken was dead or not, whether
they killed it. We hooked it on the back of the motorcycle, and we
got out to the road we were going on and this was comical because the
guy then found out I guess that you know he wanted the address or well
I don't know if he asked yet. But he found out we weren't married,
so right away he's trying to get Annie's address and where she lives
and everything else. So anyway we went on and we still weren't at the
00:54:00plateau. We had, it was far enough that we had to have another stop
that was right along the river where they had the tsetse flies. And
there was this building that was just I guess kind of like you have
up in the Appalachians or something where you can stay all night or
something like that, just nothing there. I can't remember doors or
anything whether you're trying to keep away from the animals or what it
was, but I remember I had a chicken. But I thought, well I'd be macho
or something so built a little fire and took a little needle and tried
to make a hook. And I went over to the stream over there and I tried
to catch a fish or something, but I don't think we were fortunate--
Didn't do any of that trying to say--So we got on the motorcycle, went
up to Jos Plateau, and she cleaned a chicken and we fixed it up I guess
and went, got some horses and went horseback riding and cooked the
chicken out somewhere. And just that was you know come back and that
was our trip doing that. I thought that was interesting but--
00:55:00
WILSON: So did you do other traveling in Nigeria while you were there?
SKEESE: Oh yeah, I traveled every chance I got. I would travel, I also
was going to build my own sailboat and sail around the world. So one
trip I went over in western Nigeria trying to ----------(??), trying
to see about some wood. Now I had some plans from England for building
a boat and I had the--Over there I had the, you know I checked on
wood and the prices and things like that. But no we used to travel
extensively whenever, every chance I got. I used to go down and
visit some of the girls in, oh I forgot, a couple hours south of me in
Umuahia and I remember we'd just visit the kids would get together from
different areas like that and you'd play cards.
WILSON: These are other Peace Corps?
SKEESE: These are other Peace Corps volunteers, and you'd play cards and
everything. And I remember coming back one time stories I tell people
too. I was real sleepy one weekend coming back and I dozed a little
00:56:00bit, but I made it. The next weekend I had gone down for a second
visit then coming back and it's the left hand side of the road where
you drive on, and there was a drainage ditch that went curved a little
bit and the road went straight. And I went to sleep on my motorcycle
and went down in the ditch and it just so happened as that stopped the
front wheel brake and the back wheel brake and I had my poncho on and
my helmet. I got a scratch. I still have the helmet and I come down
with my head and did a flip, didn't hurt me at all and I felt stupid.
And I pulled the motorcycle off and started up and went on to my
friend's house and had supper. But I've been asleep before. I have
other stories on that going to sleep. But hell we used to travel one
time this friend and I went to the Cameroons to travel on motorcycles.
I did two trips to the Cameroons just to see--There's a ring road
and there's what they call there's a book out and it's about the Bafut
00:57:00Beagles that Gerald Durrell wrote about and he stayed with the Fon of
Bafut. And I think it was Bafut, yeah. And the Fon there, which is a
chief and everything, and I remember we went there and he has a regular
guest house and everything. We stayed there and I got to talk to him
and he spoke some German from the Second World War. And it was unique.
He had I forgot how many wives and their houses, but I think I have
some pictures of the Fon. But we stayed there and went around the ring
road and it's, you can go one way certain days of the week and one way
the other days. I don't know if you know about the ring road or not;
maybe you've been there.
WILSON: Yeah, actually been on that.
SKEESE: Okay, well I've got good stories. I've got to digress. Can I
ask you where were you at again?
WILSON: Oh well I was a volunteer in Liberia, but we traveled in Nigeria
and in the Cameroon.
SKEESE: Okay, okay, I'll have to get your stories then! So anyway went
around the ring road and we had stayed with some, I think the, Bamenda-
00:58:00-What it is there where you start from, and we left some things there
and were going around and we were about 100 miles. We had made a trip
around, we met some fellow who went to the tea plantation to stay all
night with this Englishman who ran a tea plantation. We got pictures;
he showed me how tea was made and how they processed it. Real friendly
people usually along the way; a lot of them were English. Sometimes
we stayed with missionaries and we got to this other--We were coming
around about 100 miles; I can't remember the town right now. And they
asked to see the passports. Well I forgot and left my passport back in
I think it was Bamenda. I left my passport, was that the beginning of
the ring road I wonder?
WILSON: Yeah, yeah.
SKEESE: Okay, left my passport there at this Englishman's house so
what was comical was in this was a part of the Cameroons. You had
the English speaking and you had the French speaking and they had a
plebescite a number of years ago and they could go either with the
00:59:00French or with the English. French go with English and they chose I
guess to go with the French. Well the English couldn't speak French;
the French couldn't speak English usually and you had the, a district
officer. I forgot what he was there. I had one from each group there
that could have you know maybe let me go. And I was in the Jeep and
the language there then was Pidgin English. So here are these two guys
arguing in Pidgin English. I wish I had it on tape; I didn't get it.
Arguing, one guy let him stay and the other guy no he's going to have
to--I mean let him go and the English speaking one was--Not English
speaking, yeah was going to have me go but the other guy no he has to
stay until he has his passport. So anyway I went to the jail and this
was neat. I got to--I stayed I think where they had the ammunition.
You know I was in jail that night but I ate supper with the jailer and
his wife, which was a new experience. And I got up the next morning.
01:00:00I'm just sitting there waiting for my friend Jack, who went in his
motorcycle back to get the passport and bring it back up there. And I
got to watch them with the little sticks hitting the people there you
know that the, what do you call it? The prisoners there so they make
them work or something. I thought it was a unique experience even
if you know, if I had not forgotten my passport, not forgotten it I
wouldn't have got that.
WILSON: So you stayed in jail but you were privileged prisoner?
SKEESE: Yeah, privileged prisoner, that's right. And I thought that
was neat. Usually it was like that sometimes you know with the things.
But the next day then we had it and then we left. But like I say
we stayed with the Fon of Bafut. And another thing, I met I can't
remember if it was this trip or when I was by myself, probably when I
was by myself. This was another trip, oh! Another trip I did make over
was one of the girls from Umuahia went with me on a motorcycle also
the Cameroons. I wanted to show her the ring road but the motorcycle,
01:01:00I didn't have the right seat for her to sit on in the back and I guess
she was so sore she didn't go on. But she stayed there in Bamenda and
I went around by myself. But I had met a--Then I had stopped and met
a priest up there, a Catholic priest, and he had written a catechism
in Pidgin English, and I still have that today where it's on Pidgin
English. One thing that they say "Big Man e dey fo upstairs" [God in
Heaven] and things like that, and we had that and I have it today like
I say and came back. But I was trying to think of where you said oh
I got--Oh! Another trip I think I made, I don't know if we've got time
for trips and everything.
WILSON: Go ahead.
SKEESE: Another trip, and like I say I wanted to see as much of the
country as I could of Africa and meet the people. And usually we'd
go along, we'd either ask for missionaries and stay with them or else
we'd stay with you know the Nigerians or whatever the group was where
01:02:00we were, just ask for the chief of the village and stay with them.
But Jack and I did make another trip on our winter trip over to Togo,
it used to be Togo. Dahomey, Togo, Ghana, Ivory Coast, Upper Volta,
in those countries. And we made this trip and we were making it and
stopped in Togo, and I'm trying to think of who--Oh, he's head of a big
organization right now in Washington, or he was. But we stopped and
visited and ended up he liked pork and beans, so we gave him some pork
and beans. But I can't remember his name at this point; I'm not good
at that. But anyway we made our trip and as we were going down in Ghana
01:03:00to Accra, as we were going down there we saw this fellow on the side of
the road having trouble, this Ghanaian fellow. So he had a flat tire
or something so Jack and I stopped to help him fix a tire. And after
we fix a tire he happened to be a lawyer there in Accra and he invited
us to come and stay with him. So we went and stayed with him at his
house and you know we had the Nigerian food and he took us out to a--
WILSON: Or Ghanaian food you mean?
SKEESE: Ghanaian food! Sorry Ghanaian food, and then we went out to
the--Out to some club or I forgot, can't remember what it was for a big
meal too. And I remember eating, you know eating with your fingers.
But they also ate with the utensils. But usually the way you take
your fufu, you take you know eat with your fingers and dip it in the
sauce or whatever and you eat it like that. But anyway we stayed a
few days with him and I thought it was real neat. He showed us the
area and took us around, and then we left to go up to Kumasi, which is
01:04:00in Northern Ghana. And we stopped and it happened that when I was at
that international work camp in Port Harcourt, a couple of the people
were from Kumasi. So we looked up this young lady that also worked at
our camp that was up there, Kumasi, and we ended up staying overnight
with them and visiting with them in Kumasi before we continued our
trip. And then after that we went over to--My voice. We went over to,
excuse me, we went down to Abidjan, which at that time was the--It's
changed a lot now but it was the Paris of West Africa.
WILSON: In Ivory Coast?
SKEESE: In Ivory Coast, yeah. I've got to stop just a minute.
WILSON: You want to get a drink? Okay let's go on.
SKEESE: Okay we left Accra, we're heading for Abidjan. We went up and
01:05:00then came down into the Ivory Coast, which was Ivory Coast then. Yeah
it still is. It's the next one, it's Upper Volta now Burkina Faso.
But anyway we went to into Abidjan. I remember one thing. The road
changed all of a sudden and you're going in and there's an island and
I remember sliding down and you know to make the turn real quick to
follow the road there. I slid down the turn because gravel's there
and I've got a little scar on my arm. I had some gravels in there and
the people there are saying you know the gendarme was inside and he
said, "Ce va?" and yeah big tough me says, "Yeah ce va bien," and I
rubbed my arm. It kind of hurt a little bit though, stung. So anyway
we went on and found the Peace Corps people and stayed you know with
the--I guess Peace Corps rest house or something there and met some
Peace Corps people and we stayed there a little bit. And then we
were going to head on up to Burkina Faso, which was like I say Upper
01:06:00Volta. And then come to Niger and then come back to Nigeria, and I
remember going along there and a buddy and I were traveling. And these
are the old gravel roads and kind of rough. You're getting all this
dust and dirt and you can't see and we're following a couple a trucks
or lorries as they're called in England. And then we're going along
and decide I've had enough of this dust; I'm going to pass and I was
usually in front of Jack a lot of times. So I passed the trucks and
I'm going along and the trucks pass me or something and where's Jack?
Man, did he run over him or what? And I'm scared and I go back and
here's Jack and his motorcycle laying on the side in the road there and
he's hopping around or something, and I said, "Well what happened?" He
said, "Well I was going along and I thought the truck was stopping. I
thought I saw a light or something so I hit my breaks and slid down,"
01:07:00so he was hurt a little bit and I didn't realize how bad at the time.
So we went ahead and I went back and being probably as silly as I am
sometimes or something I like to take pictures. I was the one taking
pictures, so here's Jack and I guess his knee was kind of banged up
too or something. I say, "Well here," and he was--I forgot what he was
sitting on. I said here. He had blue jeans, would always wear blue
jeans and boots and blue jean jackets and stuff. And I say, "Here,
let me get a picture of your knee." So he had to drop his blue jeans
so I could get a picture of his knee, and I haven't found that picture
today. I want to find it. But anyway I got a picture of him, and his
foot was hurting so bad or his ankle. So he had to ride since he broke
his hand brake on there, he had to ride my cycle and I had to ride his
because he couldn't work his foot brake. So we're going along and we
must have been 15 miles or more from getting to where we had to go, and
01:08:00here--I could hear Jack as we're going along, oh, oh! He'd be yelling
out every now and then, so we finally found a Peace Corps doctor or
something, Peace Corps people and a doctor. And he did have a broken
ankle, so that meant he couldn't go with me anymore; I was going to
be by myself. So anyway I start the rest of the trip then, he was
going to get a lorry. I think he finally got a lorry and a train or
something and he came back into where he lived in Western Nigeria. And
he finally got back, but he was I think after me. I can't remember,
so I went on by myself. But one of the stories in the road you picture
again, and this was kind of savanna country or desert partially and
where they had lions and things. And I remember I was going along and
this is the way you feel. I'm going along and all of a sudden you know
I'm wondering man, it was getting dusk and here I am by myself in the
middle of nowhere. You don't see anybody usually and I'm going along
and all of a sudden some baboons cross the road. Well they can be I
01:09:00understand pretty aggressive or something. So they go over there into
the brush over there a little bit and they're standing up looking at
me and looking and everything. And I want a bike, bike got it ready
to go the motorcycle. I'm looking at them a little bit and wondering,
oh man, I didn't think about taking pictures. But then I looked down
the road and since I'm already tense or something, looked down the road
and I was positive I could see. It looked like an elephant coming down
the middle of the road, just the feet going forward and forward one
and then the other. And I'm looking down there and man I'm ready to
turn the cycle around and oh man that was it. And then a few minutes
later here it is a guy riding a bicycle, the middle of nowhere riding
a bicycle. Then I felt good. I was watching the baboons and waved
at them and I think they went on then. But I thought that was a good
experience and I think later somewhere I met a guy on the side of the
road with his pipe. And I used to like to smoke a pipe or something
back then, and had his pipe and I looked at it and I kind of wanted
01:10:00his pipe or something, wanted to trade with him. So I held out some
money and he didn't take it all; he just took so much and gave me his
pipe. But he wanted to see me smoke it then or something, so I thought
that was pretty neat. So I went on and then took pictures along the
way and went through Ouagadougou and then I went up to Niamey in Niger
and saw these peanuts all stacked up in the bags and everything like
a pyramid. And I remember one place I had to cross a ferry and there
was this camel on one side or something. One of the camels was loose
and there was the, it was all brought up, cut up a dike or something
so you had nowhere to go and there's the camel over there and loose.
And I guess they can spit and everything else, so I got out of there
as fast as I could. But anyway I always wondered when I was up there
in Niamey if I had gone a little further west I could have gone to
Timbuktu and say I've been to Timbuktu and back, but I didn't make
it. So anyway I come around and then I get back into Togo again I
01:11:00guess, and I'm getting back I think I was alright in Togo but to get
back in Nigeria there was no customs where I was. And I stayed with
some missionaries in I think northern Togo, and or Dahomey I guess it
was in. And then northern Dahomey and I came back into Nigeria and
there was no customs or nothing. Well I didn't have my passport stamp
but that's alright, I guess I was okay. So I come back in, the only
thing it was just sand. Sand and they had on the side of the roads
some little maybe little plots, farm plots or something but maybe you
had a little firmer soil on the side there, sand. And I remember just
every now and then I'd be riding the cycle and it'd just stop and fall
over because it wouldn't go anywhere. So anyway I finally rode it up
on top of those sand areas there I guess on the side. I finally come
01:12:00to a fork in the road. I had no idea which way to go, no idea of the
town I wanted that much. I'd see some people and they couldn't speak
English. So I took a chance and went to this one town and it just
so happened that it was probably where I was headed and I found some
French missionaries there, some brothers, and I found them. And I
ended up staying and we had I guess their just their basic food that
they eat, their soup and whatever. And they couldn't speak to me
and I couldn't speak much French then, so we just kind of smiled and
looked at each other and I had a place to stay that night. And then
I left out of there again. But I remember one thing I will say, the
luck that you can have--I'm going to go back into Upper after I left
Jack and I'm in let's see I left Jack and I'm in Ivory Coast up in the
01:13:00north I think. And it's washboard road and I was just sailing along
on the motorcycle and the middle of nowhere and some car passes me and
the guy puts his head out, slow down. And this is where I must have a
good angel or something. I come to a place in the road, it rained or
something, and there was a place I guess it was all the way across the
road and it must have been about three foot wide and two or three foot
deep something like that where it had washed it out. And I had been
sailing along without seeing those people in the middle of nowhere, I
would have probably been in a ditch and did a flip and maybe got killed
or something. But I thought that was something. And then later I did
see a big accident out there in the middle of nowhere, and finally we
found the people that were out there, but couldn't help them. And that
worried me for a long time why I couldn't help. But anyway getting
back to getting to Nigeria after staying with the missionaries, in
01:14:00northern Nigeria I was visiting some Peace Corps. And this is with the
story I was going to tell you earlier. Here I am going along and I had
no idea that this fellow was there and he had no idea I was there, but
I went to his house I had heard about then. And he was a Berea College
student, a physics major who I knew before. We didn't know either one
of us was in Nigeria as a Peace Corps volunteer, so I visited with him
and finally I you know left there and went back. But I used to load
my motorcycle up. I had a bed on it and I had you know everything
all fixed so I could travel, carried a gas can and everything else I
know, and that's when Jack and I were doing our big trip after it. So
anyway the thing was there. I was meeting people from different areas.
I would stay with different groups, missionaries and more or later
is when I stayed more with the African people. I guess when I was
01:15:00traveling at a later date, but I think I totaled 30,000 miles in Africa
and you know doing these trips and going around and--
WILSON: So let's talk about that a little bit. Your Peace Corps service
began in--?
SKEESE: In 1961.
WILSON: December?
SKEESE: December of '61, yes.
WILSON: And you finished up in--?
SKEESE: Well now let's see.
WILSON: '63?
SKEESE: Let's see '61, okay '62 I was there, '63 I was there, and part
of '64. We didn't leave right when we were supposed to. We even had
doing things after the Peace Corps. Like I say it's hard for me to get
together to move because we were doing some things for Peace Corps Lagos
for the main office there. We were doing things there to help them put
together--Oh I will say later the Peace Corps did have mopeds or these
50CC Hondas for the kids. They did have Jeeps I think, they did have
01:16:00these vans, but motorcycles I think now are out or something as far as
I remember because there have been--We didn't have one when I was over
there before we left that there was a fellow killed in a motorcycle and
there have been some since. But you have to watch because I remember
one time going along on my motorcycle I was going out just doing one of
my visits and I had, but the bed in the back and it stuck out about oh
six inches on each side of the motorcycle. And this was a section of
the road they were working on and it dropped off on each side. And you
didn't have much room to go anywhere and you're going along, I'm on the
left and he's on the left of his you know coming toward me on my right.
And going along and it's like playing chicken. I wasn't going to get
off of there and he evidently wasn't either, and I remember and this
is another way my good angel again. I'm going along. As I went by
the lorry, the truck, the bed I had sticking out on the side a little
01:17:00bit on each side twisted a little bit. So I hit the side of his truck
as I went by and I was lucky that it just gave, it didn't pull me into
him or anything. So that was another thing you know where you have to
watch when you're traveling you know for safety.
WILSON: So you finished up?
SKEESE: So I finished up--
WILSON: Summer of '64 or spring of '64?
SKEESE: Something like that I guess it was in the spring of '64. And
this friend and I, we weren't going to you know just go back to the
States. Well I will say one thing, we did have our, what do you call
it? Instead of the not indoctrination but at the end you have a re-,
coming back or something.
WILSON: Yeah.
SKEESE: Because we had--
WILSON: Termination conference or something.
SKEESE: Termination, we had what is it from the Mayo Clinic or what was
it? One of the psychiatrists that's well known, who are they out west?
The psychiatrists that are well known, we had one of them come and talk
01:18:00to us. But I know maybe a lot of the kids needed it, but I felt like
you know for some reason, I don't know what it was with my feeling that
okay I feel you know I can excel. I can go back and have hot dogs or
hamburgers or something in the States. It doesn't you know nothing's
changed for me. And a lot of people do have these you know problems of
going back.
WILSON: Readjustment.
SKEESE: Readjustment and everything, and I never felt readjustment
problems. I have no idea why you know, why I feel like this. Because
I feel at ease wherever I am, but well more or less because I will
say one time I was going to take the--One of my students, we had a
little get-together at my house with some of my students and it was
getting late. And to go downtown, I used to go everywhere on my cycle
anytime of day, and one of the kids you know kind of hesitant to leave
or something. I asked him, "Well what's the matter?" He said, "Well
there's thieves out there and everything," tief men or something you
01:19:00know guys that bother you. And I said well, "I'm not afraid to ride
my motor--" Kids knew I was born in Chicago maybe or something and
if you think of out west you think of cowboys, you think of Chicago,
you think of gangsters just like we think of them being in huts and
everything. But anyway he said well he said, "Everybody thinks you
carry a gun," so I took him home on my motorcycle then, but that was
pretty neat. This made me think of another story real quick. This,
I got to be known and this happened later that the people as I go by,
one name was Beard. I don't know how long you've got. Beard is afwanu
and you know a white man is anotsha and a black man was anoji. And
I used to be going down the street someone would say, "Anotsha!" you
know just being friendly and I'd go back, "Anoji!" and they just get
all excited. He knows our language, well how does he know that? But
they used to call me Afwanu, Beard or they also called me Skeese. You
01:20:00know they'd go, "Skeese!" or something, and I didn't realize that. So
there was the President of Eastern Nigeria, Azikiwe, I guess it was
for eastern Nigeria there [Editor's note: Nnamdi Azikiwe was President
of all Nigeria 1963-66. He was from the East.], and this was the year
that he was being put into office or you know was big in office. And
they were having in Onitsha they had something about the chief, a big
thing of pageantry they had for the chief once a year I think or I
can't remember. But anyway it was a big pageant for the chief, and
back then it seemed like it was easy like where you have people taking
pictures of something that the European ones you can nearly get in
front of this cordon of where they had it cordoned off with the police
and everything. So I remember going in there and I was taking pictures
of the dancers. And I remember leaning over or turning around one
time to take a picture of Azikiwe in the group there and here he was up
there taking a picture of me. So anyway I'm there taking pictures and
one of the priests told me later he was over in the you know outside
01:21:00the cordon there and watching the dancing. And he overheard this young
fellow that was talking to his father or something. He overheard him,
the father or something or say to the son there, "Well you know well
who's he? Who's that white man out there?" And the little kid said,
"Skeese!" But the thing about that is later my cousin in Minneapolis
out there she said she heard of somebody who had gone later into you
know was going through Onitsha in a motorcycle or something like that.
Later this was a few years later or something and he remembers riding
his motorcycle and someone out there yelling, "Skeese!" So I think it
means white man on motorcycle, that's all it means now. But anyway you
know that's some of the traveling.
WILSON: But you were going to talk a little bit about after Peace Corps
and--
SKEESE: Okay, after the Peace Corps Jack and I still wanted to travel
around. We were going to go around the world on my motorcycle. Like
01:22:00I said we stayed a little longer. We stayed a little longer at the, a
little longer at you know in more or less with the Peace Corps a little
bit. Not teaching or anything we were just doing some things with them
to earn a little money because I remember one day the principal of the
school. And I wasn't much for writing letters, never really did that
much. And the principal of the school came over and he said, "I think
I have a letter for you or something." And here was my parents writing
and wondering they knew the whereabouts of their son. And here I was
still there at the school. So anyway I said I better call them and let
them know I'm okay, but I wasn't much for writing. But anyway we were
going to go around the world on our motorcycles. So we you know fixed
everything up and got all these parts like I say from a friend of mine
this Greek fellow that ran this company in Lagos. We got all of our
parts at cost and loaded up extra parts. I still have them to rebuild
01:23:00my motorcycle. But we got our parts, carried our spare tire in the
back and carried a gas can and every now and then--I felt like it was
good; if you had a spare tire you met people.
WILSON: You're each on a motorcycle?
SKEESE: Yeah, he has his own motorcycle. He had a 305, a little bigger
than mine and he sold his finally but I still have mine.
WILSON: Oh okay.
SKEESE: But we were going to travel so we're heading over to Cameroons
and this is a good story. No I let's see, well yeah. This is--We
got to the Cameroonian border and it was raining and muddy and I think
we had to stay there for a night. I think we stayed with some of
the people there. It was real nice, some of the guards or something.
Excuse me. Now my friend got sick later but we went over into
the Cameroons and it was getting muddy. It was raining and we were
traveling along and like I say I like to keep going if I can. And
all of a sudden the bike stopped, couldn't figure out. This was just
01:24:00it wasn't a dirt bike, it was just a regular bike where the fender
wasn't that far from the tire and it just stopped. And we thought
well maybe the clutch went out or something. So we look and the mud
had filled up. It's the mud that when you walk it just picks up and
picks up and picks up. So it got bad there so we cleaned out the mud
and you know got it going a little further, but it was going to pick
up again. It was getting dust. And I remember on the side of the
road there little, where it was washed away a little bit, a little
bit of grass growing. And I felt like well if I go to the side of
the road and bounce the bike along it's going to knock the dirt out.
And I remember my friend I won't use his language but we were going
along and he just got so upset that we're not getting anywhere and it's
raining and he stops his bike and he says, "GD Skeese, you're crazy
man! You're crazy!" So I said, "Well let's just stop up there and we'll
sleep for the night." So we went on and got a little further and we
01:25:00did stay, took our ponchos out and kind of stayed under them until it
got the next day, slept a little but I don't know if I slept at all.
But we did that, but then we went on. And we had crossed the, what
the Cross River, we had passed over the Cross River, which is on the
border there. No, what river is it? Or maybe it--I can't remember the
river between the Cameroons and Nigeria. But anyway I was thinking
the Cross but I think that's further south. So anyway we had gotten
in the Cameroons and we're going down and we met some people. I think
one night I remember someone trying to, where we were staying in this
room with a number of people. The Nigerians I mean the Cameroonians
there I think some of them tried to get in our bag or something, and
that's the first time. You know very seldom ever have anyone want to
steal from you. I think it happened one time in Lagos and I told the
guy no. I said, "Don't do that," I said, "You know Nigerians are my
friends," or something. But in Ghana one time in Accra, some guy came
01:26:00up to us and even gave us some money! I couldn't figure that out and I
didn't want to take it from him. But anyway we go down through there
and I remember it's getting dust and I guess some areas there they
had the problems with some, not terrorists back then. I don't know if
you call them guerillas or what back then. And in the Cameroons and
we're going down and it's getting dusk and you don't see any--You see
some burned out huts or something along the way and stuff like that.
And we're going along in the middle of nowhere, all of a sudden these
guys come out with machine guns and everything. But it happened to
be the police, the government forces, the armed military or something.
They wanted to see our passports, asked us where we were going. Kind
of scary but it's another experience. Kind of asked us where we were
going and everything, told them you know we were just traveling around
to see the world. And he told us sir, you get to the next town and you
stay there. And I don't want to you know, and don't be out like this
in a road. And I remember getting into the town or something. Jack
01:27:00was tired and these guys were checking some of our things and Jack you
know he wants to move on or something. I said, "Jack, cool it. You
know these guys you don't mess them." Another thing that happened in
Ghana earlier, similar but we won't go back to Ghana right now. So
anyway we go on and stay with some friends or met some Peace Corps
people down in, oh I'm trying to think of down in southern Cameroons
the name of the place. Oh maybe you remember, but anyway we stayed
down there with a Peace Corps volunteer and went down. Then we went
over to Rio Muni and stayed and visited in Rio Muni a little bit and
had visits to missionaries outside of there. And then went to Rio
Muni and then we were heading, like I say we were going to head around
the world on our cycles. And we got down, oh Jack got sick in one of
the countries. I guess in the Cameroons he got malaria, so I had to
01:28:00ride around with him when we visit some and we visit some missionaries
there and saw how they make bricks out of mud. And we weren't too far
from, in the Cameroons again, we weren't too far from where people go
up there where they had the mountain gorillas. And I kind of wanted
to go up there but we didn't have time, just maybe seeing some or
experience that. So anyway we went to Rio Muni and we went back and
we were heading to the Cameroons, I mean heading to Gabon and we had
read about. Stayed with missionaries like I say along the way, and
some were African missionaries too we stayed with. And we saw this
article earlier I guess where some Peace Corps volunteers had stopped
at Dr. Schweitzer's. And so we thought well, so we decided to go to
Lambarene and just spend a couple weeks maybe, see if they'd let us
stay there. But it so happens that Jack ended up probably the full
year there and I ended up part of the year. I you know always trying
01:29:00to think of the boats and everything else. So we're there at the
hospital; I drove the Jeep for a while. And I helped, we helped build
some of the different places for the patients and everything.
WILSON: This is at Schweitzer's Hospital?
SKEESE: Yeah, we're at Schweitzer's now. And we're at Schweitzer's and
we, Jack like I say stayed there most of the year. But I had to go.
Dr. Schweitzer wrote, I have a handwritten thing in there right now
where Dr. Schweitzer wrote you know to extend our visas to stay with
them, John Skeese and Jack Finley. And I still have it. I got it
back from the guy, from the custom people or the people that work your
passports there at the Libreville. But then when I was in Libreville
I met some Peace Corps people and I heard about a Frenchman that had a
sailboat, and he built it in the Cameroons where he had a chancier or
01:30:00a lumber place, timber place. So you know I was going to, I've always
wanted to sail around the world too and build mine. So anyway I end
up meeting him and I was going to sail with him to I don't know South
America or Southeast Asia, islands or something like that. You get
all these visions in the '60s; it's changed a lot like that now. But
anyway I was going to help him. So I go back to the hospital and spend
a little time there and say well I'm going to help him get his boat
fixed you know to make the trip. And I met Frenchmen there too you
know I stayed with in Libreville. It's real neat the way you can meet
people. Well I met this Frenchman I might say, I was going along on a
cycle and I come along to the ferry and I met this fellow that works on
Caterpillar tractors or Caterpillars and everything, bulldozers. And
we start talking and before you know it he says well you can come and
stay with--I think his wife was still in France, so I'd go and you know
01:31:00I stayed with him and I'd go out to the clubs and stuff like that, the
night the Gabonese clubs and met people. And those are other stories.
But anyway I met this Frenchman then with the sailboat, and I was
going to like I say then I went back and I was at the hospital. And I
said well I'm going to go back and help him work on his boat some. So
I helped him work on his boat and what he did. I guess this is alright
now. But what he did, we went up to from Gabon up the ocean and then
up the river there up to a little Port Iradier or something way up.
It's not connected to the mainland in one sense. You'd have to go
across to the mainland to go into Rio Muni. This is in the Spanish
speaking country, Rio Muni again. So anyway we get there and actually
he's at this port you know like I say up on the side of the river there
01:32:00you might say but it leads out to the ocean. So anyway he wanted to
get some Johnny Walker whiskey to bring back to Gabon where he knew
you know the people in the French club there were going to buy it from
him and he was going to make a little money for his trip to go to South
America or wherever we were going to go. And I was just learning how
to sail, that's what I was doing. So anyway we go ahead and you know
sail up to get some whiskey and everything. He buys it around there
so I remember he wrote a book. I never did get a copy of his book.
He's in Martinique or somewhere now and has a place where he rents out
to people along the ocean there or something or the sea. And anyway
he was from France but he, like I say he ended up down there. He was
single and oh we got the whiskey, we came back, and he'd take it out.
01:33:00I remember out of the box, throw the boxes in the water to go out to
sea, and then you know hide them down below some stuff. And I remember
unloading it in the middle of the night right next to customs, middle
of the night, and there in Gabon they didn't have a deep you know
harbor or anything like that. It was just like a beach where it goes
out, so you had to be way out to unload in a little rubber dingy or
something and then come into shore and put it in a little closet there
or something on the side of the place there. So anyway we did that
and we nearly dropped one through the bottom. So we did that and I
think, can't remember my scheduling here. But I think I may have gone
back to the hospital but I did this twice with him. And the second
time I remember, I forgot my passport again and we got in there and he
was getting his whiskey, but he had gout and he was in the hospital or
something. And I don't know where this guy that ran the port authority
there was the first time, but he heard about the American and the
Frenchman, so he called me up there and--
01:34:00
WILSON: Tape two of interview with John Skeese, Peace Corps Oral History
Project February 8, 2005. John, you were telling me about smuggling
whiskey.
SKEESE: Well I don't use that word too much but I guess that's what it
was. I felt like I wasn't doing it for me, I was just riding along.
But we did go back a second time and do it, and like I say the man in
charge there of that little port city there he called me into his office
and told me you know since I didn't have my passport I forgot in no
uncertain terms to be out of his place and just short order I mean as
quick as we could. And I think my friend had to rush around to try to
get his whiskey to take with us you know, and I think he did get some
and we sailed back. But again I was just doing this to learn maybe how
to sail, not that I was you know going to, I didn't get anything from
01:35:00it. But then I thought after the second time, this might look bad if
something happens even though I wasn't a Peace Corps volunteer at that
time that this might you know they would relate it to that. So I felt
like well I didn't want to do that again. But I remember coming back,
it got late at night and we had this little canvas kayak that we were
towing and I remember this, and this is another experience that really
was scary. We were off the coast there of Africa and the boat took on
water, the little kayak filled with water and we were going to try to
empty the water out. Neither one of us were safety lines or anything
else on the sailboat. There was a 30 foot sailboat and we took the
hoist or something or the where you hoist the sail, we took the rope or
something and hooked it to the kayak and we're trying to lift it out of
the water and here we're leaning over and grabbing it and lifting it.
And I think it just finally snapped it in two though because of the
01:36:00way of the water. But you could hear in the distance pitch black, had
little lanterns is all we had. And you could hear in the distance the
waves breaking on shore. And we didn't have it anchored I don't think
or anything and it was kind of scary when I think back like that how
you know that's just another one of the things that happened. I think
he did catch, he drug a line one time and he'd catch a barracuda and he
brought it on board. Man I was about to jump off or something because
those teeth on that thing and he hit it with his hatchet or something
I think killed it. He did cut it up and give it to some people back
in Libreville. But the thing was after that was done I decided well I
better not go. I was kind of independent and I liked to kind of do my
own thing. He's a few years older than me; he must be about 78 now.
But he was in his late 30s then, I was in my early 30s I guess then
or maybe 30 or something like that, 31. And anyway I decided well I'm
going to go back to the hospital and finish off my year there, and the
01:37:00unique thing there was here I was going to this crossroad with--I came
to a crossroad that would one way went toward Lambarene and the other
way went back toward Rio Muni or the Cameroons or something. And I
decided well you know I'm just going back. And here I was and I get
to the crossroads and here's Jack on his motorcycle and I ask him,
"Well where are you going?" He said, "Well I decided to go with you."
And I said, "Well I decided to go back to the hospital." So we went
back to the hospital and we finished the year there like I say, and I
was in charge of the carpenter shop for a while and Jack was helping
with the sick and people that needed help. So we did get you know
I thought it was unique working at Schweitzer's hospital. We didn't
question him much about you know his theory. I have a--You know his
beliefs and everything because or ask him a lot of questions--He would
probably talk to you like that but you could read his books; we have
a number of books that are signed by him and we have a lot of things,
you know a lot of stories about our time spent there. But like I say
01:38:00we did finish off you know the rest of the year at the hospital doing
different things. Like I say I was in charge of the carpenter shop and
you know just things like that.
WILSON: So did you come back to the States directly after that?
SKEESE: So we wanted to go south but they were having the war in the
Congo you might say. The Sudan was having problems. The desert,
excuse me, the desert was too hot to cross at the time. So we end up
going and what's unique, we went, got on our cycles, and went way back
in the middle of nowhere. We saw some elephant tracks across the old
muddy bush road we were going there and it was all jungle there. And
we went back to a corner, you might say to the corner where the river
that we had gone up earlier with the sailboat we had come in Gabon we
01:39:00came you know to that point where it was in the corner there. And we
met the man in charge there and we stayed all night there, and we put
our motorcycles, this is unique, on a big dugout. Two motorcycles, the
motor--You know he had his--
WILSON: Canoe.
SKEESE: Outboard motor--canoe! And we had two motorcycles in there.
Another person, Jack, and I, and the guy driving it, and a few other
things and we went up the river to the same place that earlier the guy
told us to get out of so we could--Well we went there and then we went
across the way to where they had a point there where the road would
come in from Rio Muni where you could get a bus or where you got the
road. And we got the road, went back up through the Cameroons, back
to Nigeria, and to LFOAs, and finally caught a boat from Lagos, stopped
at Liberia which was neat because I'd never been there. Which you know
I heard the English speaking people that I mean the--Their English was
01:40:00the American English instead of the British English that I was used to.
And then we went on up to Spain, got off in Spain, and rode all the
way through Spain and visited as we went up through there.
WILSON: So you took your motorcycles?
SKEESE: Took our motorcycles with us on the boat there; it was a Spanish
boat. And we got up, went up there, and Jack decided he had to go on
home. And I got up there and went up to the Pyrenees again to visit
my friend, and I heard that my dad was sick or something, so I decided
I better hurry home otherwise I would have stayed in Europe probably
longer or something. So anyway we came, I came back and while I went
up through Paris and visited some people I knew there. And then I went
over to England, visited some friends there that I had met in Africa
and took the motorcycle to Wales and then I put it on the boat, brought
it home, rode it down here to Kentucky, and like I say I still have it.
01:41:00I rode it for a while. So I'm back from the Peace Corps now and--
WILSON: So this would have been 19--?
SKEESE: 1960--Let's see.
WILSON: Five?
SKEESE: 1965 I guess because that's when Schweitzer died I think '65.
In September, we left Schweitzer's in May of '65. I'm sure of that--
Now that had to be that didn't it?
WILSON: It sounds about right but I'm not sure.
SKEESE: '64, '65. Let's see '60--
WILSON: You went down there in '64.
SKEESE: We're '62 and 3, '62-3, 3-4, yeah 4-5 so it would have been
'65 yeah, summer of '65. And then like I say he died in September.
And when I got back to the States I hadn't you know hadn't decided
what I was going to do. I wasn't still--Now here I taught school for
two years, hadn't really intended to be a teacher but I got back here
01:42:00and then Council of the Southern Mountains had this community action
program working with the poor and everything in all these communities.
And OEO, Office of Economic Opportunity, and that was right here
in Berea. So a friend of mine who ran the Ford Foundation Program I
knew from Berea College. He said something about the Council of the
Southern Mountains, why don't you check on that. So back then I said,
"Well," I didn't think you know I'd get on something like that but it
sounded interesting. So I applied for a job then with the Council of
Southern Mountains. Perley Ayers was the director back then and Loyal
Jones, who is now at Berea College who writes a number of these books.
I mean he authors a number of books on humor in Appalachia and such
as that. He was my--He was the director then whenever Perley passed
away or maybe he was still living. But anyway I worked for the Council
of Southern Mountains as a community action technician and setting up
01:43:00going into the communities, getting together the poor and the local
leaders and everything and trying to set up a community action program
just like the Kentucky Foothills over here in Richmond. We help set
that up if I remember correctly. But working with programs like that
and one of the things I did do too is they had a program to help work
down in Barbourville. They set up what they called Cannon Industries.
It was a woodworking company to help people you know learn a project
or learn a skill so they could support themselves. So they had, they
needed somebody down there and some of the people from the council knew
I had some experience with that. So I ended up going down there. I
spent about a year helping them get started and working with people
down there. Rude Olsonik, who used to be at the college, a lot of
people know his woodworking skill with woodturning. Rudy helped me
01:44:00a little bit and helped me get some tools and things like that back
then. And then one time he asked me if I wanted to work with him, and
that would have been a good deal but--I worked down there and that job
let's see I can't remember. We kind of finished with that or something
or I think the council finally, my job ran out or something as much
as I remember correctly. And that ran out and I think for a while I
wasn't doing anything. And then I met my wife who happened to be in
VISTA in Appalachian Volunteers. After I met her I think she was, got
interested in it before we were married. And then I used to visit her
in West Virginia and also in Shields, Kentucky. And she worked in some
mining towns down there with the communities. And anyway after we got
married I still hadn't been in--She was a nurse and I hadn't done much
01:45:00yet, but I had a chance to work with the Kentucky River Foothills then
as a, up in Nada, which is up in oh up near the parkway. What is it?
The Mountain Parkway they had a project up there. It's near the Red
River Gorge. And up in there they had, we wanted to teach some people
woodworking up there, so I spent a number of months working with those
people trying to teach them woodworking. And then later I ended up
working, like I say, doing some inventorying with the Kentucky River
Foothills. And finally I think the jobs run out again or something,
so I didn't have anything to do. So I spent a year I think not really
doing much, and we had a chance oh let's see I think well my wife was
working for a year and I was I think I went to school there. I was
going to study, again I was going to study pre-med. And I went back to
01:46:00Berea College to try to get some biology courses and everything.
WILSON: This would have been when now?
SKEESE: This would have been 1968 I guess when my son was born. And I
used to--I joke with him. He's a pharmacist now, and I said, "Yeah if
you had--If I didn't have to rock you all night or something I might
have been a pediatrician today." And I joked about that; I just didn't
study like I should have. I'd go up to the college, walk up there
and everything else. We didn't have much back then. So anyway after
that Caroline, like I say my wife Caroline was still doing this work
as a nurse. And the Teacher Corps came up, another program where you
could get a master's degree in elementary education. UK had this and I
thought, "Well I'll apply for that." So I applied for the Teacher Corps
and got accepted. So we spent a summer at UK studying there at the
education department. And then in the fall for the next two years we
01:47:00went up to Louisville and we taught, I taught in an inner-city school
for two years up there. But I also took Teacher Corps work. I was
still getting you know the degree; we'd go to classes in the afternoon.
I was up for the tornado I remember I saw some of the destruction,
just missed being in that where I live. But we--That was like I say
teaching inner-city school for a couple years. My school was torn down
since then I've heard.
WILSON: So you got then a master's?
SKEESE: So I got a master's in elementary education then from--
WILSON: UK.
SKEESE: From UK, but then--
WILSON: That would have been '70?
SKEESE: Yeah '72 I guess, '72. And then I could have taught up there
probably but yet we were kind of located in this area. I'd drive back
and forth; my wife stayed up there some. But I think by then we had a
couple of children, a couple boys out of the four. So anyway we came
01:48:00back. I came down here and I thought, "Well I'll just check over here
and see if they need somebody at Berea High School, Berea Community
School. So I went in there and the principal was a physics teacher and
since I had a physics background and taught physics and math in Nigeria
he threw his book across the desk and said, "You're hired!" But that
was on an emergency certificate or something. I had to go to Eastern
and get certified in it.
WILSON: As a secondary?
SKEESE: Secondary teaching, yeah. So I had to get certified so I just
went ahead and I had the G.I. Bill at the time too. I didn't have it
earlier, but they re-inactivated it or re-did it some way that when and
when I was at Louisville then I was able to get my G.I. Bill too. So
I had some time left on the G.I. Bill so I went back over to Eastern
and started getting my degree then and my emergency. And I thought
well I just as well go a little further too. So I got my emergency
certificate on that, and then I got my certification on that in physics.
01:49:00And I was teaching and I still had little bit of the G.I. Bill left
and I thought well I'm going to go ahead and go a little further. So
I went to Eastern then with part of the G.I. Bill. I think I had to
pay for the last semester. So I went to Eastern and got my rank one in
elementary principalship. And here I didn't even plan like I say to--
WILSON: Elementary principalship?
SKEESE: Elementary principalship. So here I was you know I got that
Rank One didn't think you know what I was going to do with it, but I
just got it. And then I ended up I guess we had four sons, ended up at
Berea there for close to 30 years I guess teaching.
WILSON: At the secondary school?
SKEESE: At the secondary school, at the secondary school. And then
since then though I retired. I still substitute teach, I'm also a
bus driver; I drive the bus just recently. But the first year I was
01:50:00out I was subbing, the last year--It's about seven years ago I guess
I was out. Then the next year they had an emergency. They needed an
emergency teacher or something so I got, still retired, I was fully
teaching high school math. The next year they had a problem again so
I taught middle school science and math. Then I thought I'd be retired
this time. So then up in a friend of mine who used to teach with me
and coach with me was over at Central and then which is in Richmond.
Then he was in northern Kentucky at Campbell County, and they kept
losing their chemistry teachers. I said, "Well I'm not sure if I'm
certified," I'm not. It was some way. So because I had a number of
chemistry courses through the years, so I went up and taught full time
the 100 days but full time in Campbell County I taught chemistry. The
next year they had a problem again so I taught up there again. And as
of this January of last year I finally finished up there, came back,
01:51:00and subbed a little bit. Now I'm subbing again and driving the bus.
But I was raising the boys there's one thing I never, I used to just
have fun with sports when I grew up, but I didn't know whether it
started me when I used to watch the sports over in Nigeria when I was
teaching or what. But I ended up, I coached little league baseball.
I coached all my sons in baseball. I coached T-ball, little league
baseball, minor league, little league baseball 13 years. I coached
junior high baseball one year or freshman, yeah freshman baseball one
year. I coached soccer, little kids one time my boys, then I coached
high school soccer for 13 years, no 17 years. Then I end up, I got
involved with the Scouts because I wanted my boys to do Scouts. So I
was a scout master for 17 years and all four got Eagle Scout--no choice.
They all got Eagle Scout. And then I worked for these basketball
camps as a coach counselor three summers so my boys could go. So I
01:52:00just worked there just so they could go and it didn't cost us anything.
WILSON: So what do you think the impact of your Peace Corps experience
was on your family, either your original family or your own family?
SKEESE: Oh let's see that's a good question. Well I guess it must have
gave me an idea that I wanted--Oh I don't know whether it did about
teaching but you know to go into teaching but athletics, I don't know
why. I never did athletics when I was a kid; I just had fun doing
things, worked on cars.
WILSON: But what about your kids and in terms of impact of all your
travels or of your Peace Corps experience?
SKEESE: I kind of wish a lot of those could have got involved in it.
Most of them got their degrees and they really haven't had a chance.
01:53:00They got married. Because I was in my 30s when I got married, and
you know I traveled around. I don't know if I would have gotten
married that soon, but you know I just got married in my 30s. And
they all you know went to college and then they got married and they
have their families and they've all done real well in their jobs.
One's a pharmacist; his wife's a lab technologist. The other one's
an electrical engineer and his wife's an interior designer. Another
one works at Toyota and he nearly had his degree in biology but he's
working at Toyota, likes it. His wife's dental technician I guess and
the baby's 27. He's done a lot of things up here at Berea College with
his construction company. Both he and his wife are civil engineers,
and here I am.
WILSON: But none of them have traveled?
SKEESE: But none of them, I couldn't get them you know. Well now my
son I will say Johnny when he was in 6th grade he was elected a couple
kids, two boys and two girls went to Sweden to study over there for a
01:54:00number of months. And he was the one that was selected for that. I
never knew he could do it, but he said, "Yeah Dad, I'll go," because he
seemed so shy. But he went over and he was in that, and then he also
went with his roommate from Berea College to Malaysia. So he's been
to Malaysia too with that. But yet he's like I say married and got the
kids and none of them--My younger son did travel the way I like to do
like with Scouts or whatever, traveled out west with me before he--I
forgot how old he was maybe 14 and we just traveled, stay along side
of the road and meet people or whatever and travel like that. But I
can't, I wish I could have gotten some of them interested more with the
Peace Corps because I think it's been great. And I'd kind of like to
go back in myself. I'm looking at things but--
WILSON: What do you think the impact of Peace Corps was on Nigeria?
01:55:00
SKEESE: Well now back then and still some people you meet now they
really like the Peace Corps. I think they really liked us over there.
And I felt completely at ease like I say in meeting people. And I
think they appreciate it because there were people that would come
up to you and say they you know appreciate the help we're giving and
everything. But now since their Civil War and since then we haven't
had Peace Corps in there in a number of years even though our groups
still get together and talk about things with Nigeria and everything
you know just trying to help out some people if we could. But you know
it's, I wish it could be back in there or something. I don't know how
the situation would be you know acceptable for that at this point but--
WILSON: What about the impact on you of the Peace Corps years?
SKEESE: Well again it was meeting people. I just like to meet people
01:56:00and the people seem to accept you if you try to learn their customs
and their language and they just--It's just a, I don't know, to me it's
just a feeling you know just a warm feeling inside. I just enjoy that
like I say around the world. And Peace Corps would fit right into that
because that's what it seemed to be. I just only one time when I was
traveling I think when I was traveling in Greece and we were close to
Albania and usually people would see right away oh you're an American
we love you, you know or something. And there's one time they loved
the German guy the friend you know I was traveling with. But the
American at first they didn't like the American. But once they knew me
they liked me for who I was, not because I was American. And you know
I had that's the thing just the meeting the people there. And I guess
I still enjoy that traveling and meeting people and trying to help if I
can. Like I say I'd like to go back into something now if I could find
01:57:00something. I'd like to have gone over to help the tsunami victims but
I can't see you know what would I go as? I'm not a medical doctor, I'm
not you know anything like that to help.
WILSON: Have you had other international experience since you came back
in whenever it was '68 or '65?
SKEESE: The only thing I went back over before I was married and there
was this French girl I guess that I had known from Schweitzer Hospital.
I went back and asked her to marry me and she said no, so that's
the only international experience as far as me going somewhere. I
did meet, oh I will say I did meet one time this Frenchman I talked
about in the sailboat. This friend of his also had a charter service
when she was married to her former husband and they were friends this
Frenchman and this woman. And I got a call from Loretto over here
in Bardstown, Kentucky and you know Jacques was here with her and she
01:58:00could speak English enough. I hadn't contacted as much as I should,
but he said he'd like to come by and see me or something. So I had
seen him a few years ago. But she was over here doing some research
at Loretto because her distant ancestor was one of them which was a
Catholic priest or something that help set up the I think some of the
mission work there in Loreto before they started you know. I think
they had left the you know the big churches over there the monastery or
whatever I'm trying to think you know. But anyway he had something to
do with that. And I have some old book that had his name in it and I
was trying to follow, but otherwise it's just you know people--My son's
roommate as far as international goes, my son's roommate is from Sri
Lanka and I met--His dad came over one time and his uncle and had them,
01:59:00they came and visited and I took them around the Cumberland Gap and to
Mammoth Cave and been invited to go over there and visit them in Sri
Lanka. But that's internationally that's you know what it amounts to.
I haven't--I want to go back and visit some different areas.
WILSON: Well I was going to say now that you're--
SKEESE: Yeah, my nephew is right now in the air force in Germany and
I got a place to stay there if I go too because a lot of the people I
knew I guess a lot of them are dead now so I don't know. Stuff like
that, but I would like to travel again. I still wanted to make my trip
around the world on my sailboat and my motorcycle. I don't know. There
was a fellow that did it when he was 74 and I thought if I can build my
sailboat when I'm 75 and sail then I'll be in the world book you know.
WILSON: What, do you think the Peace Corps service had any impact on
02:00:00the way you think about the world or look at what goes on in the world
today?
SKEESE: Well I've always--When I was traveling too I felt like or you
know around the world it's sad. I don't want to get in politics, but I
feel like you know the way it was before people really liked Americans
even--Well at one time we had the ugly American back in the '60s and I
used to dress try--Or in the '50s I tried to dress as a--When I was a
soldier in Germany I tried to dress as the people would or I wouldn't
speak English if I could when I traveled. The biggest compliment to
me was in Spain one time I wasn't speaking Spanish or something to
this person, so I think I was speaking German and they didn't ask if
02:01:00I was an American. They asked if I was English or something because
the Americans usually wouldn't learn a foreign language that much, and
I thought that was neat. But the idea now is so many people probably
dislike Americans because of the way things--And it was never like that
before. And I'd still like to travel and I think once you get maybe
that's just--Maybe the common person I could find is different. I would
like to get overseas again and meet some people because it seems like
the person is just trying to get by. They can still have a big heart
and I'd like to feel like it's like that you know even in Iran and Iraq
and those countries. But the government probably wouldn't let us go,
and I'd like to travel around Cuba if I could and meet the people.
WILSON: What do you think the overall impact of Peace Corps has been
over the last almost, well over the last 41 years or so?
02:02:00
SKEESE: I'm just trying to think of whether it might be is--In the
beginning naturally you know you can see a lot of it and you know more
of it. I think there are still some countries we're going into that
it can still make a big impact. Some of the other countries might
be a little leerier if they had before and they see changes and the
way things are done. And I will say as far as the Peace Corps goes
I think you know with national and everything, with national I don't
think it's as friendly as I feel like it was in the beginning maybe
or something. But it's so huge now. I can't say anything on there
because I remember being in Washington a few years back and I wanted to
go to the Peace Corps office and feel like man, you know, they're going
to take me in; I'm right at home. But it seemed like you know they got
the guard there and you know if you go to the wrong place they've got
to check you real quick and you feel like man this is my home you know
02:03:00and I want the Peace Corps and I want it to be friendly. But they've
got a guard upstairs and naturally I guess it is something they have to
do, but it's hard for me to accept that yet. And I just don't feel at
ease as I did before a number of years ago. I felt like you just walk
into an office and how are you today and they get to know and stuff,
but it's--You've got your bureaucratic method of doing things I guess
and it's got to be because it got so huge and things like that but--
WILSON: Well and the whole security issue.
SKEESE: The whole security and everything, yeah. I will say one thing
I did get to do with the Peace Corps is when we had a number of years
ago and that was with Tom Boyd here in town and Philip Curd and what's
his name that used to be out there--Ted Kay, no. I forgot who it was.
We were all together in Washington there and I had a room with them,
but since I was in the first year of Peace Corps--Oh this is something
02:04:00interesting real quick, another story real quick. This is interesting.
We were there in since I was in the first year of the Peace Corps
the people that were there for the 25th year then, they got to go to
a special banquet or a special dinner with some of the dignitaries in
Washington. So we happened to go and all I remember is for security
we just walked through the thing, you know, the metal detector for guns
and things that was all. And we went down in there and I guess one of
the Congressional buildings or something to this fairly big room. It
wasn't a lot of people because there weren't that many people there and
I thought that was neat. And back then I think President Bush or no
Reagan was supposed to come and talk to us. He couldn't make it and
he sent Father Bush, you know Bush number one or something to talk to
us. And I was only about ten feet away and got his picture. I went
over to Teddy Kennedy and got his autograph, and that was kind of neat.
I really felt you know this is an experience to be able to do this
02:05:00with these guys you know that usually you don't get to do that with.
But I remember one thing there which was neat; I was there in line
to get my lunch. And this relates back to you know show you how small
the world is. Back to someone I knew that was from the States at the
international work camp in Port Harcourt. Here I'm there at the 25th
anniversary. I'm getting my lunch in this line, the Nigerian line
or something, and all of a sudden some guy comes up to me and says,
"Johnny Skeese!" And I looked at him so we started talking, and this
is a fellow that's working in Washington there, lived in Alexandria I
guess and had read in the paper about the Peace Corps people you know
having a reunion or something, having a reunion. So anyway he wanted
to come over and see if I would be there and there he was. And we
talked and everything, and since Phil Curd in the hotel they were going
02:06:00to leave and I was going to be there a Sunday. He invited me to stay
over at his place and he drove me over to the meetings and things like
that and picked me up. I thought that was real neat. Then I finally
caught my plane to come back on a Monday I think it was.
WILSON: Would you like to ever go back to Nigeria?
SKEESE: Oh I'd like to go back. I'd like to go back and see who's still
living I guess that I knew because it's been so many years now. But I
know some people. And they had the war, and I imagine some people are
still there. I'd like to travel the same places I've been just to see
them or even take Caroline if she'd be interested. But you know it's
just people have gotten old, most of them have left and I'd like to--My
friend, like I say, has remembered a lot of these names and people and
that's the reason why he's written these two articles right now are on
the internet.
WILSON: And those are what?
SKEESE: One of them was on our trip and to Schweitzer and another one
was on our trip that I explained to you around.
02:07:00
WILSON: Okay and this was written by Jack--?
SKEESE: Jack Finley.
WILSON: Okay.
SKEESE: Jack and I were--We were--Well he was from Ohio and we were real
good friends out there at UCLA for training. He had his MGTD and I
got to drive it later I know. And I was best man at his wedding and
he was best man in my wedding. And we still keep track now. He's you
know he's has a place in Montana he's selling his place in Louisiana,
and then they have--His wife is Filipina so they have a place in the
Philippines and they go and stay through the winter and they come back
in April. And he worked with; after he got done he got his doctorate
in public health. And he went around in all these countries and he
was helping direct the public health in Burkina Faso, in let's see what
other country, in Central African Republic, in Botswana, no Zimbabwe
I think. He spent time--Botswana, he spent time working in these
02:08:00countries with AID.
WILSON: And what, I'm thinking about sometime later somebody being able
to access those articles. Do you have either a reference site or--?
SKEESE: Let me see if I can get something for you that shows that. He--
Jack really wrote the articles and he asked me you know and so we're the
kind of--My name is on there that people can contact me, but we're both
in that.
WILSON: Are there other people from your Peace Corps days that you keep
in contact with either Nigerians or other volunteers or friends?
SKEESE: Jack is the closest I guess. There is a friend out here also
has a big site on, I don't know how his health is now. He's out
in Washington state and he's got a--Oh I think it's in some archive
somewhere but he has a--On the internet he has his travels after he
02:09:00left and went to East Africa and all the way up on his cycle by himself,
and he's got a good article on that. And it shows his friends there
in Nigeria and where he was teaching and he has a good site. Every
now and then, I'm very slow about doing things, responding and then I
finally you know I've got to do this. I know he has a motorcycle today
if he rides it. I wanted to ride out west and see him or something.
WILSON: Well you ought to do that. Well--
SKEESE: But I can check that for you in just a minute if you want to
check that.
WILSON: That's really all the formal questions I have but I always end
by saying is there another Peace Corps story that you'd like to tell
before we turn the recorder off?
SKEESE: I don't know. I was trying to think of some but I know there's
a lot of stories. Once I get started I usually go on and on.
02:10:00
WILSON: Well you've done well. Thank you John for your time.
SKEESE: You're welcome.
[End of interview.]
