Interview with Lee Colten, January 27, 2006

WILSON: Peace Corps Oral History Project interview with Lee Colten, January 27, 2006. Interviewed by Jack Wilson. Lee, if you would, start by just giving me your full name and where and when you were born.

COLTEN: Lee Arthur Colten. Born in Minden, Louisiana, 1958. March fifth..

WILSON: And did you grow up in Minden?

COLTEN: Yes. I was born and raised in Minden, Louisiana. Accused of being a Yankee frequently because my parents are from the Midwest and transplanted down there, so I carried a little bit of an accent that I picked up from them. So we took a little flack for that.

WILSON: Or as people from the North would say, non accent, right?

COLTEN: Well, yeah, I think mine was really pretty generic.

WILSON: So tell me something about your family and your growing up.

COLTEN: Well I guess there were a few things that made us a little bit misfits in Minden, Louisiana, in the Deep South. Several things, actually. My parents being from the Midwest, being transplants. I didn't know that I particularly identified with that until I got older. But my father was Republican. And so that was, in my upbringing, I remember that as going down to campaign headquarters to campaign for Goldwater and things like that, setting up banners. I remember that as part of my childhood. My father was also a prominent individual in that he was a newspaperman. He owned and was editor for the local 00:02:00newspaper. So his name was in the press. And growing up with it, I didn't think much of it at the time. But it was a big part of my life, seeing his name in the paper and going down to the press room with him regularly. So I'm sure that affected my thinking and outlook on life. Also, he was with the Chamber of Commerce after he sold the newspaper. I was in probably junior high at that time. He worked for the Chamber of Commerce for a couple of years and then was persuaded by some of the local businessmen, he was a very business minded individual, very pro business, to run for mayor. So he was mayor for eight years, through most of my teenage life. Eight years as mayor. And so, growing up, a lot of his observations on life centered around looking at the community and how the community was functioning, how businesses were 00:03:00coming and how the economy's doing things like that. So that really skewed, these little tiny comments that you hear from your parents. It's the subtleties of life that influence you the most sometimes. And so those things influenced the way I looked at things a lot. Dad also being kind of, I started to say from the North. I don't know if that 's really the factor, but he was very much a figure in the civil rights era in Minden. Minden was going through the court cases and court-ordered desegregation. And Minden in particular was under some orders. And so that was the ambiance in which I grew up in. So as he became mayor, he took some pretty strong stands in terms of putting 00:04:00paving and streetlights on the other side of town.

WILSON: The African American side of town.

COLTEN: Exactly. So he became a real friend of the black community in Minden. And that was a real significant voting bloc for him, I'm sure.Female: He put up blacks, females, as receptionists in City Hall.

COLTEN: That was one of his first high profile things that he did that made a statement in the community. So those, one other story I'll share that's very, that I didn't hear until I became an adult was he, as a newspaperman, he got a call from one of his newspaper buddies in the next county. Maybe down the road in the same county, I can't remember. Said, "Look, Tom, we ran an editorial in our paper that apparently offended somebody. They came and trashed our presses. The whole paper's been destroyed." And Dad said, "Come on up here. We'll 00:05:00help you meet your deadline." So they came and-- (clears throat) I'm getting choked up. So they came and brought all the materials to the presses in Minden and met the deadline.

WILSON: This would have been when?

COLTEN: In the early '60s, probably.

WILSON: Early 1960s. So you graduated from high school there then?

COLTEN: I graduated from high school in Minden in 1976. And then went off to school at Oklahoma State University. About that time my parents, my father was done with the newspaper, done with being a 00:06:00politician in small town Louisiana. And he got a job with a--

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: State Chamber of Commerce

COLTEN: The state Chamber of Commerce in Baton Rouge. So they moved. And I'd jokingly tell everybody they moved so I couldn't come home from college and find them. (laughs) To avoid me. But anyway, so I went to Oklahoma State University and got a degree in biology. Four and a half years of schooling there. It was after that, it was at Oklahoma State University that I met a Peace Corps recruiter. And my brother actually probably kind of piqued my interest in Peace Corps because he was a geography major, and was always looking for opportunities to travel for free. And one of the things that geographers like to do is Peace Corps and these kind of things. So I went in to see the recruiter. And ended up getting an application and went. The summer after I graduated, I graduated in December. Ended up going into training the 00:07:00summer of 1980. And so that's what took me into the Peace Corps.

WILSON: Okay. And tell me something about that application process.

COLTEN: Well, I'm sure it's fairly familiar. I was young enough and naive enough, I hadn't dealt with government bureaucracy too much. And so the many pages of fold out forms were just mind boggling, and all the references. I think that's just my main impression was I was just overwhelmed with the amount of paperwork. And all the following up with calls, making sure people did their references. One interesting story related to that, I had a neighborhood lady, lady who lived across the street when I was growing up, write one of my reference letters. 00:08:00And apparently she did the paperwork, mailed it in. They weren't supposed to mail them back to us. They were supposed to write their recommendations on this form, send them in to Peace Corps headquarters. And she filled it out and said something about Lee Colten and some non flattering things on this thing and sent it back to me.

WILSON: To you?

COLTEN: To me. And I'm thinking oh my goodness, I can't believe she said this. And not realizing it was a joke. So anyway, that was comical. So Pat got me on that one. (laughs)

WILSON: So you sent your application in. This would have been when?

COLTEN: 1980.

WILSON: 1980. Probably spring or winter of 1980.

COLTEN: Right. Right.

WILSON: Did you indicate a country or part of the world preference? Was that a possibility?

COLTEN: I said Latin America. I don't think I mentioned any particular 00:09:00countries. I knew I was interested in learning Spanish. I had no language skills at all. I had, well, I had a year of French in high school, but none of it stuck. And hadn't been out of the country other than a couple little overnight trips into Canada as a child. So I really had no international experience to think of, or language skills. I think again my older siblings had done some traveling in Latin America, so that was of interest to me. So I specified that.

WILSON: So then you were notified.

COLTEN: I was notified of Ecuador. And then, that I would do my training in Costa Rica. I'm not sure when I found out that I was actually doing the training in Costa Rica. But my assigned country was Ecuador.

WILSON: And did you, was there a staging of some sort or something?

COLTEN: Yes. We had a selection process that Peace Corps experimented with I think only a couple of years. It didn't turn out to be to their liking. We ended up going to Harper's Ferry, West Virginia. And I know you just interviewed my wife, so she probably told some of the same stories. We'll see if they coincide or not. We had a weeklong selection process where they took all the volunteers, I think, from two groups, special education and ag extension. And they had us in a really nice hotel there in Harper's Ferry, overlooking the Potomac and Shenandoah rivers, right where the rivers come together. And basically it felt like we were under this psychologist's microscope. They would follow us around with notebooks. And some of the notes that came back 00:11:00later, it was just amazing some of the things they wrote down. But a lot of these encounter group kind of sessions, and role playing groups and simulation games, those kinds of things, where they could observe us in different situations. Really long hours. And it was interesting, too, because there were some people, I did a lot, I was familiar with those kind of discussion groups and things like that because our church, and retreats, and you do some of those kinds of things in those settings. But to some people, it was very foreign, and very awkward for some of them. I mean, I enjoyed it. It was an interesting group of people. And that's what was so stimulating to me about it, I think.

WILSON: And then at the end of the week?

COLTEN: Well, probably one of the more significant things for me in my Peace Corps experience is that I met my wife there. I remember 00:12:00noticing Marianna. Very short hair, very attractive woman. She had cropped all her hair off, really tomboyish haircut right out of college because she was wanting to go through some change in her life, and I think women do that sometimes. So I remember thinking that she was very attractive, but she's out of my league. You know, one of those kind of thoughts that runs through your mind. So I never felt really comfortable approaching her and introducing myself. And we weren't in the same groups. So we're out, it's going on toward the end of the session, the whole week. And here we are at Friday. And we've had these long sessions, and I'm worn out. So I get out and I'm going to go for a walk by myself. And here she comes. I'm leaving the grounds of the hotel. Here she comes back with a group of other people. 00:13:00They'd just finished a walk. And we're passing each other, and she peels off from this group, puts her arm around me and says, "I want to get to know you." I'm thinking okay, this is good. And all the other folks are like, what's going on here? (laughs) And so we go for a walk. And we head out across this cemetery. You cross this cemetery in Harper's Ferry, then you go through the woods on the other side, and there's a spectacular unofficial overlook. It's not on any of the trails, the guidebooks or anything. There's no fencing or anything. But you're sitting on this rock overlooking this cliff, right where the two rivers come together. Spectacular view and the sunset and everything. Sort of very romantic, as it turns out. And so we end up talking and just sitting there and time slips away. And before we know it, it's probably five hours later. And somebody comes looking for us and says, "Hey, you guys going to be here for this--" We were in a play that night. And said, "You guys going to do your thing, or 00:14:00not?" Because I was supposed to play my guitar, I think, and do some music. So we thought oh my goodness, we better get back. Anyway, we connected there. And the session ends and between that weeklong selection process and our flight to our respective training countries, there was probably a month or so. Time intervenes there. So I get a packet in the mail of some sheet music, of some music that Marianna had wanted me to learn, for one thing. So I call her and thank her for it. And it's a very awkward conversation. I felt like, she doesn't really want to talk to me. Maybe I called at the wrong time, or she's not really interested in me, or I didn't know what was going on. So I get 00:15:00another letter, and then another letter. And I think well, okay, this is a little more encouraging. So I arranged to, we were supposed to actually leave from Florida with our respective groups. She was going with the special education group and I was going with ag extension.

WILSON: And she was going to Ecuador.

COLTEN: She was going to do her training in Ecuador, and I was doing my training in Costa Rica, right. And-- (pause)

WILSON: Okay. I think where we stopped, you were talking about going to training and your connection with Marianna?

COLTEN: Right. So we were going to separate countries. And we were actually supposed to meet in Florida, and had different departure dates. And had I just gone with the ticket or the Peace Corps had lined up for me, I wouldn't have seen her in Florida or in Ecuador for some time, because I was going to a different country. So I called the 00:16:00airlines and said, "Can I change the date on this without any penalty?" And they said sure. So I moved it up a couple of days so I could go to Florida and overlap and see Marianna, get a little time with her. So we connected there, got to spend about twenty-four hours together. And then I went on to, she flew on. I had to spend an extra night in a hotel. And then I went on to Costa Rica, she went to Ecuador. I'll finish this meeting and romance part. We can come back to the Peace Corps part in a little bit.(laughs) She, so I get to Costa Rica for my training. I have two months of training in Costa Rica. And she's doing her training in Ecuador. It's the same story. I kept getting, I got a letter almost every day. This lady was incredible in terms of her letter writing. So I kept getting letters, and then I'd get these little packets of trinkets and souvenirs she'd bought for me 00:17:00at the store. And I'm thinking, I don't even hardly know this woman. And we've spent a week at Harper's Ferry and a day in Florida, and I'm getting all these letters. And of course I'm writing her, but not quite as frequently. You know men, we're just not as good at that. So anyway, I finally go to Ecuador. I have another month of training there. And she is leaving for her site, because they only had two months of training. So we overlapped a day or two there. And then I go to Otavalo area. And I think I come back and I see her prior to leaving Ecuador for maybe a day or so. No, I'm sorry. I don't even see her then. So sum total before I come back to the United States, I have maybe ten days with this woman. And I don't know what makes the 00:18:00best story here. I'll go ahead and finish this story. So I come back to the United States and she's still in Ecuador. I come back to the United States for another year and a half. We have this long distance romance by mail. Again, only ten days in each other's presence. Spend a lot of, send a lot of money to Ma Bell. A lot of postage stamps. A lot of tapes going back and forth. This is all before email. So I decide to go see her in her site in Cuenca, Ecuador the Christmas before she's to come back, that probably would have been December of '82, something like that. And I fly down there with the intent of just seeing her, visiting, spending a little time in Ecuador and coming back. Two weeks during my vacation time. I was teaching at the time. So I get down there and lo and behold we're having a good time, and 00:19:00we're sitting on a rock in the middle of the river, visiting. And we're making these little strings out of clover. You know how you take the little clover flowers and you string them together and make a necklace or a crown or something like that. And I make one for a ring and put it on her finger. And she says to me, "So what do you want to do? We need to do something fun while you're here." And I say, "Well, why don't we get married?" She says, "Well, I was wondering when you were going to ask me." So that's kind of how that happened. So she accepts. We end up having a fight before I go back. I go home. By the way, I have no clothes. My luggage got lost on the way down there. So I'm in Ecuador with her for two months, or two weeks, with no clothes except what I had on my back. Borrowing some of hers and getting by. I go 00:20:00back to the United States for another six or seven months before she's done with her Peace Corps service. So we have this more long distance romance. And it's killing me, you know, at the height of being in love and all of that. And she comes back to the United States. We end up living together for a year and actually getting married, and it's worked for, it's been twenty-one years this summer. So we would see some of our Peace Corps volunteer friends after that for years later. And they would say, "You're still married? I can't believe it worked. Because you guys didn't even know each other." I mean, we'd, by the time I proposed to her, we had less than two weeks in each other's presence. So it was pretty remarkable that it worked. But you get to know a lot about people, I guess, a lot of long letters, a lot of phone calls. So in a way it kind of removes some of those pretensions that 00:21:00you can put on in normal relationships, I guess.

WILSON: Well that helps answer a question that comes at the end of the interview about impact of Peace Corps on you.

COLTEN: Well, yeah. That's right.

WILSON: Well, let's go back to the point of the Peace Corps training. You go off to Costa Rica. What were you training for, and what was that training like?

COLTEN: I was in ag extension. In applying for Peace Corps, I really didn't know what I wanted to do. I was majoring in biology, so I was looking down the list of things they offered that were biologically related. I have no ag background. As far as qualifications, I remember putting on my application that I had some, had done home 00:22:00gardens. That was it. So we, they actually took pretty good care of us in that regard. The training based, there were three aspects of it. There was cultural part of the training, there was language, and then your area of expertise. I'm trying to recall. I think everybody at our center was agriculture. There were people there at different levels with different groups and different time frames that were coming and going. The language training was outstanding. I went into it with nothing more than a year's worth of French and came out conversationally, I don't want to say fluent, but very conversational level Spanish. In contrast to the people who spent their training in Ecuador, they were very uncomplimentary of their language training. And when we got together and compared what we could do, it was pretty 00:23:00remarkable. So I felt very pleased with the training we had there. It was difficult, I mean obviously, I'm a visual learner, so I kept wanting to have the instructor, "Can you write that word on the board? Let me see what it looks like." And I would even say that in broken Spanish. And she would say, "No, we can't do that." They were really forcing our ear to train it. They did something that I thought was unique about with the training was they had different instructors from different countries. We had Jamaicans, Costa Ricans, Nicaraguans. I mean, you got one trainer for a week. And then by the time you got used to that accent, they would rotate them out and you got a different trainer for a week. And so you were constantly having to adjust your ear to their unique accents and sometimes different phrasing and vocabulary. You know, you call platanos one thing in one country, and something in a different, another country. So that was challenging. 00:24:00I remember having a breakthrough on the language. They sent us away for a week about two thirds of the way through the two months of training there in Costa Rica. They sent us off, they'd say, "Go to this village and you've got a week. Figure out how to get there." No real assignment. I just remember they say, "Go there and spend a week there." And what we did was pretty much up to us. After that week, I came back feeling like I could really do it. And my instructors were complimentary like I had made some breakthrough at that point. So in living with the family, as during the training, we were living with families, and that was a very good experience as well. There was a husband, wife and two children. Loden, Flores, and Alonso and I can't remember the last one's name. But that was a real good experience.

WILSON: There was a cultural component about Ecuador? History and stuff?

COLTEN: Actually the cultural training that we had in Costa Rica was not so much about Ecuador. We had a month of training in Ecuador that covered that. But the month in Costa Rica was more things like oh, I don't know that I can even tell you. The more generic cultural sensitivity kind of things probably is the best way to characterize it. And then agriculture. We actually had some test plots where they showed us how to set up four plots and run some tests, you know, different fertilizer or pesticide applications. Basics of plowing with primitive implements. Carrying, sharpening tools. Just really basic stuff in some cases. Selecting seeds. Hybrid, specialized seeds versus just collecting your own seeds off of the previous season. I remember 00:26:00drying beans and beating them till you got the beans out of the husk and things like that. So it's a real eye opener for somebody who's not used to depending on growing his own crops to survive. So that was, we even had a, I remember some kind of party. I can't remember what the event was. But we killed our own turkey. Got it drunk beforehand, which is the tradition there. You fill it up with a trago [Editor's note: a shot] of beer or something to get it drunk. Then you kill it.

WILSON: Chop the head off.

COLTEN: Right. So we each got a turn to kill a chicken or a guinea pig. We got to raise our own guinea pigs there and feed them. You know, you'd get assigned a couple of days to be responsible for them. So it was interesting experience.

WILSON: So the Costa Rican portion was how long?

COLTEN: Two months.

WILSON: Two months. Okay.

COLTEN: Right.

WILSON: And then you went from there in country to Ecuador?

COLTEN: Right. We had a month in Quito. Again, same kind of mix of language, cultural, and really actually, at that point there wasn't much agricultural, I should say. The cultural was more memorizing the provinces and the capitals and the history and that kind of thing. Again, they would give us assignments. Go to this destination and come back and report to us what you saw and learned and some things like that. They had some field trips where they'd take us out and tour us around certain things.

WILSON: And then, was there any selection process at either of those junctures? Either Costa Rica or the end of the Ecuadorian--

COLTEN: No. I mean, not that I'm aware of. Yeah, in Harper's Ferry 00:28:00they explicitly cut people out. Once we got down there, it was more attrition to people that didn't feel like it was for them. We had one fellow, the only real agronomist we had in the group, who everybody, he picked up the language like that, he actually had some Spanish training, he was a real trained agronomist, and he had some real farming experience. After a month and a half he says, "This isn't for me. I'm going home." And you know, we never really understood why. He never did give us a good explanation. There were a couple other people that made it to Ecuador. But after they got there, one of them was actually a Spanish teacher so clearly Spanish language was not a difficulty for him. He was black. I don't know if that was a factor. I never heard him complain about it. The other one was a teacher. But they left right after they got to Ecuador. They did the swearing 00:29:00in, and then said, "I'm leaving." So we lost three that I remember out of about twenty or twenty-five.

WILSON: So what, then, you were assigned to a particular job or place? Where was that?

COLTEN: Yeah, I was assigned to a little village. Gosh, I can't believe I didn't look it up, and I can't remember. A little village outside of Cuenca, which is towards the north, north of, northern part of the country. Probably about a four-hour bus ride north of Quito. And a little community, probably a thirty-minute bus ride north of Cuenca. And I was actually staged in Cuenca for a short while before I was taken to the community and shown -- wow, some of this is real fuzzy 00:30:00-- I was taken to the community and shown around and introduced to a family that he was on some kind of United Nations grant for preserving traditional woven goods. So he was kind of a, he was more worldly. I'm not sure how educated he was, but very worldly, and very good at his craft. And evidently able to network and get money through other channels. So he was trying to document and keep some of the traditional weaving. I want to say the word in Spanish--tejidos. It's the woven goods, like blankets and tapestries and that sort of thing was his specialty. And they have this specialty of these fajas. 00:31:00It's basically like a cloth belt or woven fiber belt that they did. And they had some ceremonial or artistic ones that were just for wall hangings. And the idea being they preserve this culture and then they sell them elsewhere and make money from it. So he actually had a motorcycle from the grant, and took me into his home, put me up for a couple of days, showed me around. There had been a previous Peace Corps volunteer that had done some work there putting in livestock shed with a concrete floor where they could save the manure. I can't remember what they called it. But anyway, they took the manure and cooked it down and were able to, they captured the heat to heat the 00:32:00water, and it was the only shower in town, an outdoor shower, which I thought was kind of interesting.

WILSON: So they captured the methane from it.

COLTEN: I never saw if it was just the heat from the fermentation, or there was methane. I never fully figured that out. But it was outdoor shower stall with no walls or anything, which I thought was interesting. And there was actually a room, like a common area with a roof and walls where they could have dances and things like that above where the cows were. I don't think it was used much. It probably was intended for something like that but never used much because of all the flies and smell and everything. So they, the people there were telling me that this was a good idea, but it didn't work. Nobody used the shower or any of the facilities there. I spent some time with that family. And it's real fuzzy, I can't remember. I ended up leaving 00:33:00that family, going back to Cuenca for a week. He had only, that's what it was. At that time, I was having some illness problems. I went back to a central place in Cuenca where the volunteers kind of had a common house where some of them lived there in Cuenca. And rented a room for a few days. I was, now I remember. I was waiting for, Tomas Guerrero was my Peace Corps contact. And he had not come into town. Okay. Now it's coming clear. The first village. I'm sorry, I'm skipping around because it's fuzzy. The first village where I had stayed with this gentleman who did the tejidos, I had a bad experience. I was walking through the village, visiting and meeting people. And there 00:34:00was this party going on, and all these people mingling around, standing around drinking a trago [Editor's note: of chicha], which is a corn drink, fermented corn drink. And I walk up, and I'm making small talk with these people, visiting. And there was an indigenous gentleman who was a good six, eight inches shorter than me but more pure blood Quechuan, and more indigenous and looked down upon or less, lower class in the community. And I'm visiting with all these people, and this fellow is very drunk. And he's offering me a drink of the very strong stuff. And I say no thank you. And he wasn't accepting that. And he kept insisting, insisting, and pushing my arm and shoving me. And finally, next thing I know, I'm laying on the ground. He punches me out. Very insulted by my refusal, I guess. So several of the people 00:35:00help me up off the ground, dust me off, and run him off. They were very physical, and ran him off. And the irony of it all was as soon as they helped me up they say, "Here, have some of this. This will make you feel better." So I ended up having to drink some of it anyway. So that happened. And they were very apologetic and I made some good acquaintances there. Somewhere along the way I remember having, still waiting for this Tomas Guerrero to show up. He makes a decision, I can't remember how I got the word, but why don't you come out of that community. So I moved back to Cuenca, spent a couple, a week or two there waiting for him to introduce me to another community. So I go down to Lago de something, I can't remember where it is. He takes me 00:36:00up, introduces me there. All the meanwhile, I'm having these health problems. I'm having a fever like every other day. I would be on the bed just sleeping and very uncomfortable for a day, and the next day I'd feel fine. Literally almost every other day. It went on for a week or so. And I actually found a place to live in this other village and was ready to move in there. And I think the cycle of the fever and my experience in that village, homesickness, all of these things, and a feeling of inadequacy. I ended up finally just saying, "I think I'm hanging it up." So I drive, take the bus into central office in Quito and pour my guts out. And they say, "Well, if you feel that way, we'll send you home." So that's what I did. So I'm actually in country in 00:37:00Ecuador probably about three months.

WILSON: So it was really a combination, well, of medical termination and self decision.

COLTEN: Well, yeah. I mean, that didn't help. But you talk to other Peace Corps volunteers. Marianna had very serious health problems. It sounds like mine were nothing compared. Yeah, sometimes I beat myself up about maybe I should have stuck it out. But I didn't. And it was, it still left an impression on me. I don't think I made a mark there by any means, but it made an impression on me. I learned a lot.

WILSON: What was it like coming back? Before you answer that, let me go 00:38:00back and ask an earlier question, which is what was it like going into the country in the first place?

COLTEN: I'm not sure the initial impact was maybe as stark as it was for some people because I think one thing I misspoke about earlier, I had no real out of country travel except for six months prior to leaving I had gone to Mexico and spent about a month with my sister traveling around. I went down and did a volcano climb, and down around through the Yucatan Peninsula and Guatemala and Belize. So I had at least seen some of the poverty, the primitive conditions, and the experience of being a minority and not able to understand everything that was going on around you. So it wasn't a total shock by the time I got there. So first impressions, though, was the spectacular scenery. I mean, 00:39:00Ecuador is just truly spectacular because of the mountains. Where I was, I was up in the high Coreras which is the high mountain valley between the mountain ranges of the Andes. Just, I mean, the mountains are there. It's just truly amazing. You're at nine thousand feet elevation. Clear, dry air that gets cold at night and just perfect weather during the day. And seeing the culture, and seeing the way people live. It's just a real education every time you see another country or culture. So I certainly enjoyed that part.

WILSON: And coming back? What did you do when you came back?

COLTEN: Well, when I came back I wallowed in my misery a little bit, 00:40:00probably. Ended up living with my folks for about three or four months. I remember getting a job in a restaurant waiting tables. Playing music a little bit in some places. Working in a hardware store. I guess I got, my dad thought I got a little too comfortable. After about three months he finally said, "I'm going to have to start charging you rent." And so that got me out of there. Took a class at LSU in Spanish. And moved out and got an apartment downtown in Baton Rouge, right off campus there. So in the middle of taking that class, I was working at a Cajun restaurant, playing music some on weekends at a little restaurant down there. Stumbled onto, was writing to a friend of mine that I had known through some of my previous summer 00:41:00jobs in college. And he told me about an environmental ed center in North Carolina, or, excuse me, in Tennessee. So that opened a door for me to do some teaching in environmental education. I should back up. The connection here, too, is this same individual I had worked with at a summer camp in North Carolina. And he and I had started this environmental awareness curriculum at this summer camp. And so it piqued my interest in environmental education. And so that was part of my interest in education in going to the Peace Corps in ag extension, fit in with that very loose vision at this time of what I wanted to do with my life. It was educating, it was out of doors, and it was environmental, saving the world and all that stuff. So it seemed like 00:42:00a good next step for me to do something here in the United States that was back in education and environmentally related.

WILSON: And then?

COLTEN: Well, then, I don't know whether to kind of a quick overview. I mean, at that point, well, I spent two years teaching in Tennessee. Cedar Creek Learning Center, which is an old '60s vintage elementary school in far eastern Tennessee. Right up against the Cherokee National Forest. And I ended up starting there as an intern, which meant getting paid, getting room and board and maybe sixty dollars a month or a hundred dollars a month, it wasn't much to speak of, this fledgling 00:43:00center that really had no students. Doug Ratledge had been trying to get this off the ground for a number of years, and my friend Anthony San Felipo had been there when they first did a lot of renovation of facility. So I went there. And my job was to help develop the program and get students in there. So I ended up going to, developing an in-class curriculum, going into classes during the wintertime when we couldn't get any kids into the school. And then in summer time, it was warmer, spring and fall, we'd get students to come in. It was a residential facility. We had kids come from anywhere from one day day trips to, actually we had two, three, and seven day trips.

[Tape one, side a ends; tape one, side b begins.]

WILSON: Side two of interview with Lee Colten, January 27, 2006. Sorry.

COLTEN: That's all right. So we had kids come there from anywhere from 00:44:00day trips to two, three or seven day during the summer. The curriculum involved a day of hiking on the mountain, looking at the flora, looking for wildlife and tracks and scat and all those kinds of things, trying to teach biology but also ecology and environmental awareness. We ended up using it as a springboard to talk about environmental issues and choices about lifestyle and that sort of thing. A day on the mountain, a day on the river, and a day in a cave. We spent literally anywhere from four to six hours in a cave underground, wet and slopping around. So that was an ideal experience for a kid in his twenties who wanted to be stomping around in the woods and preaching the gospel of environmentalism and things like that. So that was a real, that allowed me to kind of satisfy some of my idealism at that age, but be closer to home in a familiar setting, I think, and not be sick. (laughs)

WILSON: And that, that was a year or so--

COLTEN: This was within--

WILSON: You came back and before Marianna came back and you were married.

COLTEN: Right. This was, I got that job within probably five or six months after returning from the Peace Corps. And then she returned another year and a half later, probably.

WILSON: Let me go back for a second and ask you a question about the job situation. Because my recollection is that there were a lot of issues in the '60s and '70s about jobs for volunteers in Latin America. 00:46:00Whether there were real jobs there. Was the job that your, people in your group expected to do well defined? Or pretty loose and you expected to--

COLTEN: It was not defined for me. And I don't know what my expectations were. Because I had heard stories of people being dropped in the middle of nowhere and having virtually no contact with anybody. But during the training, I was introduced to this gentleman who was supposed to help me. And so there was, based on that, I was expecting some support and a little more placement, if you will, that I didn't see for some time. So that did allow me a fair amount of time on my hands to maybe think too much. He did finally plug me in with a local 00:47:00extension service there in one community. But it was still pretty ill defined as to what I would be doing or how, what my role was. So that was a little source of anxiety, perhaps.

WILSON: Okay. We talked a little bit about coming back. And to pull the threads together, you were married, then, after Marianna came back, which is another year or so down the road.

COLTEN: Right.

WILSON: And then tell me how you got to Kentucky and what you've done since, here.

COLTEN: Okay. So I'm at Cedar Creek Learning Center in eastern Tennessee, she's in Peace Corps. And we're doing this long distance 00:48:00romance that I already mentioned. She comes back, had it not been for me, I should add, she probably would have stayed, re-upped, and stayed another term. She loved me enough to come back, at least. So she did come back. We're in a small, rural community in eastern Tennessee. When I say small, we're talking a rural elementary school turned environmental center, a grocery store with a gas pump, and two churches. That's it. And tobacco farms, some dairy all around. That's it. So it's very rural. And so I've got long hair, I've got a beard at this point. And not exactly blending in. but very well, I should say the community really embraced me. They took me in, I 00:49:00went to church, and a lot of the old ladies used to have me over for dinner and stuff like that. The old ladies were great to me. (laughs) I got invited to play at some weddings, sing at some weddings, that sort of thing. So anyway, Marianna comes back. And there was a real pillar of the community that owned the grocery store. Had a house. Their son, who usually lived there, was in prison. So I was shopping around, trying to find her a place. Before I found out about that one, we put Marianna in another house over the ridge. And immediately she was kicked out because I was spending too much time over there and had a beer bottle sitting out on the table when the owner showed up. So he didn't like that. He kicked us out. Kicked her out, I should say, to be politically correct. So she's moved her stuff into the school, which is a big scandal in and of itself. And we're trying to 00:50:00find a place. We're driving all over the place, looking for a place for her to live. And George ambles up to me one day and says, "Lee, you still looking for a place for Marianna to live?" And I said yeah. He said, "Well, move down in Ace's house down there." So I mean here we've been living in less than proper conditions on and off, pretty obvious that we're sharing an abode. And going to church at the same time in this small community. I mean, the whole community knew what was going on. There's no way to hide it. And George, who could take a lot of flack for this, offers her a place to live. And so that was really quite a gesture on his part. And of course I end up moving in with her, and then we have to watch what we say around my mom and dad so they wouldn't find out this was going on. So we end up living together pretty much a year before we finish there. She ended up 00:51:00teaching at a state institution. I remember going in and introducing myself to the director of the institution and just bluffing my way into her office and saying, "She needs a job." And she got it. So we did that for a year. Then I got restless. She was definitely getting burned out dealing, wrestling with the residents at the institution. And I was getting burned out on teaching the same lines over and over again, looking for something to further my path towards environmental education. I decided after talking enough about environmental education that I needed to understand some of the issues from another perspective. That here I was talking about why we need to do all this thing, but I didn't really have any insight into what the real issues were behind it, the real ramifications of making a decision to be 00:52:00green on this issue or that. So I decided again, and wanting a little more technical expertise. So I decided to apply for graduate school, I wasn't sure where. We had a gentleman on our board at the learning center that used to be a professor at Eastern Kentucky University. I said, that sounds good. Still in Appalachia, I like this area. So he made a recommendation, and I got a scholarship to do my master's at Eastern. So that's what brought us to Kentucky. I spent probably a year, I mean, excuse me, two and a half years, working on my master's while Marianna was teaching at a school in Estill County. She ended up getting bounced around because of her mixed background. She did special ed, and they moved her around quite a bit. And then I finished my degree, then got a job with a consulting firm. Again, with the 00:53:00intent of trying to understand environmental issues from the private sector perspective. And then did that for two years while Marianna got her master's degree in Spanish. Partly because she wanted to learn more Spanish, partly because she needed to get a master's to keep her teacher's certification. So she did that. And I worked for Will Lander Associates writing grants and administering water and wastewater projects and some economic development stuff. And then left there, getting burned out with less than optimal salary and too many long hours of consulting work, and driving all over the state. Very good experience, I might add, working with local governments. A lot of interaction with local mayors and judge executives, city councils and that sort of thing. And then decided to apply for a job that I'd heard about from my major professor with the state Division of Water doing 00:54:00toxicology work, which was actually what my master's work was in. So here I was actually getting a job doing what I was trained to do, so that was pretty remarkable. And again, still thinking down the road, thinking okay, I'll learn about the regulatory side of environmental issues. Thinking that I'll get my five years vested in the retirement system, and then I'll move on. Well here I am eighteen years later, still in state government. So that's pretty much my career path.

WILSON: That reminds me of one I believe that Marianna didn't say. She did some Peace Corps recruiting while she was at UK.

COLTEN: That's right.

WILSON: She never mentioned that in her interview.

COLTEN: Really? And she interviewed Ashley Judd during that time. So that's something she'll always brag about.

WILSON: Is that right?

COLTEN: Yeah.

WILSON: I didn't know that.

COLTEN: Ashley Judd never signed up, though.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is that through Kay?

COLTEN: That was not through Kay.. That was in the same building.

WILSON: What was the impact of Peace Corps on you? Aside from a wife.

COLTEN: Yes, the wife, significant other. I don't know. I actually predicted that question, tried to halfway think about it ahead of time. I'm not sure I've got a good answer of that. I think, I mean, it's definitely continued, I mean, my international travels, I've probably spent as much time traveling in Latin America overall as I have time in Latin America in Peace Corps, if that makes sense. I've done enough traveling that I've gotten as many days over there as I did, out of Peace Corps as I did in Peace Corps. So I have probably what you'd 00:56:00call a superficial very good familiarity with Latin America. Not the kind you have living in a community for two years that some Peace Corps volunteers have. Certainly having that international experience, I think everybody should have if they can. I would like to see it mandatory, if I could wave the wand and make it so that everybody who goes through school or some point in their young adult life has to spend at least a month in another country just to see the culture, to see, feel what it's like to be the minority, to not understand what everybody's saying very well, and understand the humanity that exists in every country, even though we don't always agree on things. Even though their culture may seem awkward and different. I mean I think that's the kind of thing that just gives you that other insight into 00:57:00how different things are, but how much the same they are. So that certainly reinforced, all my travels reinforced that, I think.

WILSON: What was the impact of Peace Corps on your family?

COLTEN: Well I mean, since I can't wave the wand and require everybody to do a month overseas, but I can give my kids that opportunity. And so we had the fortune of taking them, you know, we forced them to listen to some stories probably they didn't want to listen to. They'd seen some pictures, and see the knickknacks around the house. But we did, my youngest son, we did ten days in Mexico when he was fairly young. We took a group of middle school kids down, so he had a little exposure there. But more recently we had two and a half weeks in Costa 00:58:00Rica. And my kids right now this summer when they went they were seven, twelve and fifteen years old. So obviously they're going to see it at different perspectives, given the age differences. But one thing that really pleased me about that experience, we were staying at a hostel in a town called La Fortuna. And it was mostly inhabited with college age folks, you know, footloose and fancy free and traveling around, and not much responsibility and care of the world that those with that age. And they're mixing with them. And a couple of them take them under their wing, and show them a good time, something that the parents can't always do as well as some college age kid that they're looking up to. And we're sitting there one evening and these guys, Matt and Ian 00:59:00especially are watching these young people talk in multiple languages. Some of them three and four languages. And sharing all these stories, like, "You've got to go here and see this, you've got to do this, oh, this was cool, let me tell you about this experience." And Ian and Matt are just listening. Like suddenly the light bulb's going on for them that it's cool to go overseas. It's cool to experience different things. And these, a couple of guys said, "You can't believe how fortunate you are who have parents, you've got a marvelous experience." And so I think that made a real impression on them.

WILSON: So what other international travel or experiences do you look forward to?

COLTEN: Oh, boy. Well, I think we'll keep, we'll still travel some. We may not be able to do the international thing as much, but we'll keep 01:00:00traveling in country, for sure. We blew a big wad last summer. Now we've got to start saving for colleges. But I think we planted a seed with them, for sure. One of the things we'll do for them when they graduate, we have a history on both sides of our family, is that when we graduate from high school, we were given an opportunity to travel. A thousand, two thousand dollars or something like that to pick a country and go. So we talk about some scenarios how we'll make that available to them when they graduate. And I think given the experience in Costa Rica, they'll do that. Other than that, Marianna and I still talk about, she wants to take me to Galapagos now. I've taken her to my training country in Costa Rica. So maybe--

WILSON: Did you go to some of the areas in Costa Rica that were part of your training?

COLTEN: We went to Alajuela, where our day offs were spent, mostly. Other than that, we didn't go to any of my stomping ground. But yeah, 01:01:00I think we'll definitely travel overseas when I retire, when the kids are out of college.

WILSON: What would you say the impact of the Peace Corps experience was on the way you sort of look at the world?

COLTEN: Well, I can think of several conversations I've had with people given current events where there's a school of thought that some people are worried about this one world government in the United Nations, and that we can't have other countries telling us what to do. Even though we don't seem to have any qualms about telling other countries what to do. I think it's really affected my thinking about this notion of 01:02:00neighbors. Somehow a lot of people seem to, I don't want to stereotype, but people who haven't been out of the country, maybe, have this notion that their loyalty and patriotism stops at the US border. And I remember having a conversation with one gentleman who said, "Why should it stop there? There's different levels of loyalty." I mean, you have a loyalty to your family. But then maybe you have another loyalty to your neighbors in your neighborhood. And then beyond that, you have a loyalty to people in your community, to your county, to your state, and then to your nation. Why should it stop there? Why not international? So I think by living and traveling, it helps you see that next step, that larger picture. How that affects what I do and really impact on the world, I don't know. It's probably a little more intangible. But 01:03:00I think it does let you look at things differently, for sure.

WILSON: What do you think the overall impact of Peace Corps has been? Over the last forty-five years, I guess.

COLTEN: Oh, boy. I don't know. You know, every now and then you'll hear about a congressman or senator that has a background in Peace Corps. I think clearly there's people that go on in it. You know, whether those people would have gone on to those roles or not without that experience or how it affects them, I don't know that I've got a good answer to that. You hope it makes a difference.

WILSON: What should be the role of the Peace Corps today?

COLTEN: Well, I guess when you look at it from that standpoint, I still 01:04:00believe there's a role for Peace Corps. I would hope it continues to be funded and continues, just from a standpoint that even if it's a limited number of people that have the opportunity to gain that experience and maybe change their perspective on the world, that we need to keep doing that in the hopes that my discussion with my friends might open an eye or two, that something I do will make a difference and so on with all the other people that have had the same experience. So I think it should continue, and it's worthwhile, for sure.

WILSON: Okay. That's sort of the general outline of the structured questions. Are there things that I should have asked you and didn't 01:05:00ask and that you'd like to answer? Or any other stories from your experience that you'd like to relate?

COLTEN: No. It's been fun.

WILSON: Okay. Well, thank you. Thank you for your time.

COLTEN: Yup.

[End of interview.]