Interview with Joyce S. Miller, March 23, 2006

WILSON: Angene Wilson interviewing for the Returned Peace Corps Oral History Project. And I'm interviewing on March 23, 2006, interviewing Joyce Miller. Joyce, what is your full name?

MILLER: Joyce Shevchenko Miller.

WILSON: And where and when were you born?

MILLER: I was born July 19, 1937 in Shrewsbury, Massachusetts.

WILSON: Okay. And tell me a little bit about your family and something about your growing up. Was there anything in your growing up that maybe led to your being interested in joining the Peace Corps?

MILLER: Well, I'm first generation American. My mother's from Lithuania, my father's from the Ukraine. We've always been interested in history and just knowing about the world. And there's always been an interest in our family.

WILSON: And what kinds of experiences did you have growing up that were related, then, to learning about history or learning about the world? 00:01:00Did you learn about your own parents' experiences?

MILLER: We learned about our own culture plus my father was very much interested in history, had been also a geography teacher in Ukraine. So this was just a part of our life.

WILSON: Yeah. And did you ever get a chance to, have you ever had a chance to go to Ukraine?

MILLER: Not until my father passed away. We went in 1995.

WILSON: After things changed.

MILLER: Yeah, after things changed. We went to Lithuania several times, and Ukraine once. And met family members, and it was delightful.

WILSON: Right. Right. Well, I think of the fact that now we've had Peace Corps volunteers in Ukraine. But that would have been, that's more recent. Where and when did you go to college?

MILLER: I graduated from University of Florida, 1969.

WILSON: Okay. And what did you study?

MILLER: My major is art education with a minor in social studies. And I did, went to Rollins College, earned twenty-four hours towards my MBA.

WILSON: Okay. And then after you graduated from college, what did you do?

MILLER: I went to work for Martin Marietta Company as a technical illustrator.

WILSON: Using your art ability. So you didn't do teaching at that point?

MILLER: No. I never really taught.

WILSON: Never taught. Okay. And so what other jobs did you hold before joining the Peace Corps?

MILLER: That was the only one.

WILSON: Okay. And you were doing that for how long?

MILLER: Four and a half years.

WILSON: And so what year did you join the Peace Corps?

MILLER: January, 1964.

WILSON: Okay. And how did you find out about the Peace Corps?

MILLER: Well, I had been a fan of Kennedy. And after his assassination, of course, it just became a thing that everyone was interested in.

WILSON: Did you know a lot of people who were joining Peace Corps?

MILLER: No, didn't know anyone. As a matter of fact, I really didn't plan on joining it, but my best friend wanted to join, and she asked me 00:03:00to go with her. And I got accepted and she didn't, unfortunately. And that was always an interesting problem later on in my life.

WILSON: Oh, dear. So what was it like to join in 1964? Do you remember anything about the application process? Because you're saying that your friend didn't get to go, and you did.

MILLER: It was, I applied in December, '63. And then we had to go in on a Saturday. It was an all day test. It was language ability and psychiatric type thing, or whatever, psychological thing. And it was intensive. And then two weeks later, I was invited to join the Peace Corps and to leave that January.

WILSON: Oh, so it didn't take you long at all.

MILLER: No. It was about three or four weeks between--

WILSON: Wow, that's really, that's really fast.

MILLER: It was interesting. Interesting decisions to make.

WILSON: To be ready that quickly. And so did you have a choice of 00:04:00countries? Or did they just say, we want you to ----------(??).

MILLER: No. I had requested Nepal, and they offered Chile. But I figured that was mountainous, so I would take Chile.

WILSON: And that was one of those things that you were thinking about in terms of a country, that you would like to have mountains. Why was that?

MILLER: I don't know. (laughs) I was living in Florida at that time. It was very boring and flat.

WILSON: So what kind of a program was it in Chile at that point? And was this an early program?

MILLER: We were the fifth group.

WILSON: Fifth group. Okay. And the job was?

MILLER: We were trained for rural education development in southern Chile. But when I got there, three of us were taken out of that program and put into cooperatives. And I ended up in a production coop in northern Chile in the desert.

WILSON: Where did you train?

MILLER: I trained in the University of New Mexico.

WILSON: And how long was that training?

MILLER: It was a three-month training. It was the early days, where they had the Outward Bound to push you beyond, the survival, the mountain treks survival in the snow. Killing chickens, rabbits, digging latrines. We had to go up in the Sandia Mountains quite often, because National Geographic was doing a big spread on the Peace Corps, I think in '64 it was the largest article they had ever done on Peace Corps training.

WILSON: Okay. And so you were in that?

MILLER: We would have to go up and rappel off mountains and do rock climbing.

WILSON: So they could take pictures of you?

MILLER: Yeah.

WILSON: Were any pictures of you ever in the National Geographic?

MILLER: No. No. I didn't have the right color shirt. (laughs)

WILSON: Did you have language training as well?

MILLER: Yes.

WILSON: And had you had some Spanish before?

MILLER: No. I was a Latin ----------(??).

WILSON: Oh well.

MILLER: The language, it was interesting, because we did not have native 00:06:00speakers. So we never learned the Chilean accent.

WILSON: Oh. You were learning it from people who were in New Mexico.

MILLER: Who were American Spanish speakers, but not necessarily--

WILSON: Did you have any people from Chile who were helping with the training?

MILLER: No. I think ones came back from, the first group, but most of our trainers were local teachers. And then we did have two from the first Colombian group came and helped us.

WILSON: Who were helping you. So you had some training in what? Community development?

MILLER: Community development. Horsemanship, Jeepmanship, sewing, farming.

WILSON: What about history?

MILLER: In history, yes.

WILSON: History and culture of Chile.

MILLER: Yeah. But it would have been better if we'd had someone from Chile telling us about it. So it was an interesting program. We also 00:07:00had ground proofing (??) and all those type of things.

WILSON: Did you like the Outward Bound kind of stuff?

MILLER: Not really. But it was interesting that, the most difficult part of the training was there were forty-four of us in the group, and only twenty-four survived the training.

WILSON: Wow, that's a very--

MILLER: You had a selection out process.

WILSON: Right.

MILLER: After the first year and a half, or first month, first month and a half, you would go down to your mailbox to see if you had a slip of paper. If something written on it, you were out. If it was blank, you were in. And you didn't know until you picked up that paper.

WILSON: Wow. Now was your, had your friend--

MILLER: No.

WILSON: Your friend hadn't gotten in to begin with.

MILLER: Yeah. Yeah.

WILSON: So this wasn't a case of you being--

MILLER: And then at the end of three months, again you went down to your mailbox to see what was on your slip of paper. I thought that was a very unpleasant way of being told whether you were in or out.

WILSON: Let me ask one more question about training. You listed a whole lot of things that you were involved in, from killing chickens to learning something about culture. What turned out to be most useful to you when you got in country, do you think?

MILLER: Well, the other part of the training was community development and working in rural education programs. But unfortunately since I was not involved in that program and transferred to the desert in production coops, other than being able to survive, I guess survival training. (laughs) Everything else was our own initiative.

WILSON: So you went to Chile in what month of--

MILLER: May.

WILSON: May of '64. And you were there until?

MILLER: March of '66.

WILSON: March of '66. Okay. Tell me what it was like to arrive in Chile.

MILLER: Arriving in Santiago was fantastic. I mean, we had some good parties. And then I was put on the train, on the plane, and headed off to Antofagasta. I was the only volunteer going into that area. There were three volunteers there, and they left two days after I arrived. And so I was it.

WILSON: And so why were you picked for this? Why did they switch you?

MILLER: Probably because I had worked, had graduate work toward my MBA. And they figured I could handle whatever was there.

WILSON: So you were just in Santiago a couple of days?

MILLER: Three days.

WILSON: Three days. And then?

MILLER: Shipped off without proper clothing. My clothing was for southern Chile in the rain, and I'm up in the desert. But that's not a problem.

WILSON: What was it like arriving there, in the desert?

MILLER: Cold, dreary. And saying, wait, I'm the only volunteer. Everybody else has another volunteer with them. I am by myself. And 00:10:00the first thing was, I think I prayed for a revolution of some sort. Because it was extremely difficult. And then finally I met some university students and professors. They just happened to be running a campaign next door to one of my little shops. And from that time on, I was adopted by the entire area. It was great. And then eight months later, a volunteer came, and I don't know why, what happened, but when I came back from vacation, he wasn't there. And then a year later, the teachers and the nurses started coming in. But I found it was much better to be by myself.

WILSON: Why?

MILLER: I was adopted by the people. When I was working on some of the less desirable areas, always one of the men from my coop would be there at the bus stop to be with me. And it was good. It was fun.

WILSON: What, you said this area was desert. How else would you describe where you were? How big the town was--

MILLER: Antofagasta is the seaport for the copper mines. It originally belonged to Bolivia, and the Bolivians say they still want it back. Basically, up until a few years ago, they never had recorded rainfall. The Altacama Desert, which was up beyond right there, was dry. I mean, there was no life, no vegetation. The only vegetation in town would be three parks where they brought in direct from ballast from the ships. It was a population of 120,000 people.

WILSON: Had a university?

MILLER: Had two universities. Universadad de Norte and then Universadad Catolica was there. The desert was delightful. It was really beautiful.

WILSON: You were getting there though in the winter, right?

MILLER: Yes.

WILSON: Coming from ----------(??).

MILLER: Yeah, well, coming in, yeah, coming in to winter.

WILSON: What was your Peace Corps job specifically? Tell me something about what you actually did.

MILLER: It was to work with a group of men and develop a production coop. They had already formed a men's group. It was a project that was called Techo.. And it was started by a worker priest in Argentina who said that people can work on their own, they can build their homes, they can do their work, they can develop their jobs. And part of my project was to work with a group of men, develop them into becoming an official production coop. There hadn't been one in Chile, and I couldn't find anyone else that had a production coop. This was a sheet metal workshop. And I worked with, particularly the worker priest that 00:13:00knew that things were coming in. It was going to be in town, he was head of the building coop. And I worked with a group of Chilean women who were the upper class, shall we say, Chilean women who believed this was their social duty to work with these people. So this was who I worked with. I didn't, as such, have a boss in the Peace Corps because the project was winding down and was nobody there. So I had no project manager or director.

WILSON: What about a host country national who was a person you worked with?

MILLER: Well, there were several.

WILSON: There were several. But there wasn't anybody who was over you.

MILLER: No.

WILSON: Okay. So was it a pretty loose situation in which you had to sort of figure out what you were going to be doing?

MILLER: It was loose in the, in fact, working with the production 00:14:00coop, it was trying to set up a bookkeeping system, trying to develop business, trying to get contacts. And then eventually we did become legalized with the help of the local businesspeople and a couple of the worker priests. It became legalized. And then set up an apprentice program, and tried to get them business. I also worked with the mother centers, where we set up a childcare center. We also had a shop in town, which had been established before I got there. Not by volunteers, but by local women. And where we did the loan from the United States, and goods, making purses and things like that.

WILSON: What were your living conditions like?

MILLER: I had it good. I lived in a pension, in a boarding house. No windows in my room, but that was all right. There were fifteen of us, all Chilean, except for me, and one bathroom. And few termites. I 00:15:00only had one light bulb. It was fine. They took care of me.

WILSON: So you had your own room?

MILLER: I had my own room.

WILSON: And had what in your room?

MILLER: I had a bed and wonderful Peace Corps bookcase. I read every book the first two months. (laughs)

WILSON: Do you remember what books were in the book locker? Because that didn't last too long. I'm not sure when the book locker--

MILLER: Oh, it was a lifesaver.

WILSON: But it was a wonderful thing. Do you remember any of the books that were in your locker?

MILLER: Oh, I was even reading first grade books that were in the thing. Whatever. No, I don't remember. But anything. Just that it was a book in English.

WILSON: Right. Right. How did you eat? Did you have--

MILLER: In the pension. Yeah.

WILSON: So you didn't have to worry about cooking for yourself.

MILLER: Breakfast could be served in my room. And Diosa (??), the maid in the pension, would bring me my roll and coffee.

WILSON: And so what would their typical day be like? You'd wake up at 00:16:00what time? Have breakfast--

MILLER: Oh, seven. Have my roll and coffee. Fortunately, Diosa who was, sort of ran the thing (??) liked me. So she would always save me the bathroom, to make sure I could get in before some people that took a long time got in. She would come and run and get me and say, "Come, now." We didn't have a working shower for about six months. It was mostly sorority baths in cold water. And then once I developed friendships with the local people, they knew if I came to visit them, I'd bring my towel and take a shower.

WILSON: You could get warm shower then sometimes?

MILLER: Yes. Oh, yes.

WILSON: So after breakfast, then what happened?

MILLER: Well, then I would trudge off to the, most of the times to the coop, which was at the other end of town.

WILSON: And how did you get there?

MILLER: By bus. And it was sandy, it was up on the mountainside. So it 00:17:00would be. . and I always dressed appropriately. They always teased me because I wore hose and I wore heels because I was their managerial advisory capacity, and I would dress that way.

WILSON: But what about other, your counterparts? Women like you in Chile, would they be dressing that way, too?

MILLER: Oh, yes. Yes.

WILSON: So you were just dressing the way you were supposed to.

MILLER: Yes.

WILSON: No flip flops and--

MILLER: No. (laughs) And besides that, they weren't wearing slacks yet and they weren't wearing miniskirts.

WILSON: Right. Right. And so what would you do during the day? You're in the office, or you're down in the ----------(??)

MILLER: In the office. In the first, we had, it was an interesting building. And working in there. And then, later on, they built us a wooden building that we could do our work in. But they gave 00:18:00us machinery that we didn't have electricity for, and things like that. Then I would go to the different businesses and try to drum up business.

WILSON: Meaning?

MILLER: We had the monopoly on wastepaper baskets. We provided wheelbarrows for the country, made ship hatches. And then--

WILSON: What are chip hatches?

MILLER: Ship hatches.

WILSON: Oh, ship hatches. Yeah, yeah, right.

MILLER: Working with, and teaching them how to develop a schedule, how much work to get done, how to get it done, you know.

WILSON: When it needed to be done.

MILLER: Yeah. And set up the books. I didn't touch the money. We had an accountant who did all the money handling. That was one thing, we were always very careful never to get involved with money. When my tour was up, they asked me to stay on, because they figured I was the only one they could trust to do money. But I said no, I'm not staying on. (laughs)

WILSON: You'd done your two years

MILLER: Yeah.

WILSON: So some of the day you might be out seeing people. What did you 00:19:00do for lunch?

MILLER: Well, it would be back to the boarding house, pension, for lunch. Or after a while, I had my friends would always meet for a hot dog or something like that. And then, little siesta.

WILSON: Little siesta meaning, how long? You'd go lie down on your bed?

MILLER: An hour. Half hour.

WILSON: Half hour.

MILLER: Then off to work again. Then at four o'clock, it was once, teatime. And everybody stopped to have their tea and their roll. It was called once because it meant eleven, and eleven, number of letters, and aguardiente, which is their distilled brandy that they would drink, but not at teatime. And then work again until around seven or eight. And then have dinner again around eight or nine.

WILSON: And again, you'd go back to the pension or--

MILLER: There or with friends or, yeah.

WILSON: Or with friends, or something like that. What did you do for recreation?

MILLER: Oh, we partied a lot. (laughs) My friends decided that the 00:20:00only way I could learn Spanish was to have a Chilean boyfriend. And this group of students and professors one day had a party and lined up all the eligible bachelors in town and said, "Which one do you want?" (laughs)

WILSON: So did that work?

MILLER: The one that I was interested in wasn't there. But they found him eventually. But we had a lot of good parties.

WILSON: A lot of good fun.

MILLER: Yeah.

WILSON: What was the most difficult thing to adjust to, do you think? You said the first three months were kind of hard. But what were the hardest to adjust to?

MILLER: After the first three months, I was very, very comfortable. I felt at home. I was comfortable.

WILSON: What, so, do you think you were, why was that? Were you well prepared for that? Or just you, your personality, sort of?

MILLER: I think being the only one there, I was adopted. And everyone made sure they made an effort that I was taken, I noticed when you had two volunteers together, the people would stand off. Then when you have a whole group of five, they don't want to interfere. But when you're by yourself, they take pity on you and really want to help and be with you.

WILSON: So are there examples of how they helped you besides finding you a boyfriend or taking you to parties or whatever?

MILLER: Just if I wanted, I needed to buy a pair of shoes, somebody would say, "Okay, let's go find some shoes." "Oh, you want a dress for something or other, let's go do that.." With the women advisors that were the older, and it would be to tea, just social occasions and that. And then with my workers, it would be going to their home and having dinner. It was just being nice. It was nice.

WILSON: Is there anything that you think you were not prepared for?

MILLER: No. No. In a way, the Outward Bound was good, because I knew--

WILSON: You knew you could do anything?

MILLER: Yes. (laughs)

WILSON: What, did you do, what did you do for recreation in terms of when you had some time off. Did you travel in the country?

MILLER: Well, we went to the beach a lot. We were always at the beach.

WILSON: Because you were right there on the coast.

MILLER: Right on the ocean. And a lot of beach parties all the time. That was every different group, you had the beach parties. And it would be lots of times it would be overnight setting up tents and sleeping on the beach. And this was a very common thing that they did. And there were some people, just hitchhike from one place to the other. I was probably the only volunteer that turned in a Jeep.

WILSON: There were Jeeps available for volunteers?

MILLER: There were Jeeps. And there was one that was assigned to me and I didn't want it because I figured I'd spend my whole time driving people around.

WILSON: Good thing to turn down.

MILLER: And I turned it in. The volunteers in the south had horses. So that's why we had horsemanship, to learn how to take care of horses.

WILSON: So where all did you travel in Chile? All over?

MILLER: All over.

WILSON: All over?

MILLER: Yeah.

WILSON: And how did you do that traveling, since you turned down your Jeep. By bus or by--

MILLER: By bus. It would be an interesting trip to Santiago. It was about thirty-six hours by bus to Santiago. And I only went three times, I think, my whole time there. Only when we had conferences.

WILSON: Did you get to the south of Chile, too?

MILLER: Yes. When we had a year break, went down to the south there. At that time, we weren't allowed to come back to the States. Which 00:24:00I think is a good thing. So we could go to the other countries. Of course they would take our passports and wouldn't let us go to Mardi Gras in Rio. (laughs)

WILSON: Did you travel to other countries?

MILLER: Yes.

WILSON: Where?

MILLER: Well by the time I left, every place except Paraguay.

WILSON: In Latin America?

MILLER: Mm hmm.

WILSON: Wow. And what were your, you've already talked about this some, but what were your interactions with host country nationals like? You said that they adopted you. What are examples of how you became so comfortable with people?

MILLER: I'd been working with some men in the shop. I mean, this was an interesting area of town. But they were always protective of me. No one ever hassled me. I never had any problems at all. And it was this certain protection that the men from the shop would make sure I was 00:25:00okay. It was just--

WILSON: Sounds like it was special.

MILLER: Yeah, it was. And if I accidentally, when I had to go to another area of the city which, again, might be a little difficult. By accident, one of the men from the coop would be there at the bus stop. "Oh, I'm going that way, too." This type of thing.

WILSON: That's nice. You did not have a counterpart, and you did not have a host family.

MILLER: No.

WILSON: As some Peace Corps volunteers did. But sounds like you were well taken care of, anyway. What about interactions with Americans? Again, you've already said that you thought that when there were more Americans, that meant there was less interaction with--

MILLER: The only other Americans there when I first got there were the consulate and his wife. And that was, they were too elite. There were 00:26:00three papal volunteers from Canada. It was the Catholic equivalent of the Peace Corps.

WILSON: Oh, okay. Because there's also CUSO, but this was something different.

MILLER: Yeah. These were papal volunteers. And I got to know them. They were pretty much on their own. They were all teachers at the university. And that was about it. And then the last six months I was there, because so many volunteers had started to come in, twenty, thirty, there were probably around forty volunteers in the city.

WILSON: Wow, that's a lot. And it started out with just you.

MILLER: Yeah.

WILSON: That's very different.

MILLER: It's the hospital, and then for the university. And then they had a Peace Corps associate director stationed there for the last six months I was there. But he had nothing to do with me. (laughs)

WILSON: So you started out very independently, on your own.

MILLER: Yeah.

WILSON: And then by the time you were done, there were lots of people.

MILLER: Yeah. You'd see an American every place.

WILSON: How many volunteers, then, were there in Chile when you left?

MILLER: I don't know. There were a lot. Yeah. There was, I thought a little too many.

WILSON: And it would be a very different experience.

MILLER: Yeah.

WILSON: What are a couple of particularly meaningful, memorable stories from your Peace Corps experience? And why are they so meaningful?

MILLER: When I went back to Chile, after I finished my tour and before I got married, I went back to see that my coop was still running, that it was still producing. And it lasted up until the time Pinochet took over. Because he considered coops to be left wing and did away 00:28:00with credit unions and that. But up until that time, it was still in operation. And to me, that was good. And, oh, I don't know. There were just so many, it was just, I hated to leave the country, but I knew I had to. Because if I had stayed, I probably would have stayed, and may have regretted the fact that I didn't come back to the States. Because I had gotten too comfortable. And I just felt, I had to return. I had to come home.

WILSON: So why do you think you'd gotten so comfortable? Again, because you were being taken care of and were part of the--

MILLER: You see, and that's also part of it. And they'd have big fairs in town and everything, I could be a part of that. And then without permission, I went up into other areas, into the desert, and worked with some of the university people on developing old weavings from the 00:29:00early times. And they-- that had disappeared because of water, and no longer had weaving, and trying to redevelop their programs and stuff like that. That was a side thing with the university people.

WILSON: That sounds interesting.

MILLER: That was, we were in some areas where they were carving out of volcanic rock, carving sculpture. And later on it became so commercial, Sears was covering it. But some of the earliest things, some of these people had never seen a photograph or a picture. And it was interesting what they were coming up with. And they gave me one that had a person with a backpack and horns. And I've often wondered what that represented. (laughs)

WILSON: Did you have a backpack?

MILLER: Yes, I did.

WILSON: What do you remember about the culture of Chile that still--

MILLER: It's not Latin. It's European. Many of the people that I worked with are Yugoslavians. They had come over during the war or after the war. Yuvancic and Granic, were a lot of the popular names in the area. The only cultural thing was pisco, and dancing, they're trying to rejuvenate the native dance, the cueca. But other than that, no costumes, nothing colorful.

WILSON: Many of the people there, it sounds like, were immigrants, like your own parents to this country. So there would be some similarity. What was it like coming home to the US?

MILLER: Great deal of culture shock. I mean I have to admit, it took us, there were seven of us that sort of hitchhiked home, and took 00:31:00several weeks to come home, we traveled all of South America. And by the time we had gotten to Mexico, we were ready to come home now. And when I did see the flag, I got a little teary. It was just, I couldn't go to a shopping center, I couldn't go to a mall. I was so disoriented. It was just too much. It took me a long time to say, okay, I have to get back into this fast pace, I have to get back into these things. And I did.

WILSON: We've already maybe talked a little bit about this, but the question is, what do you think the impact of your Peace Corps experience, service, was on the country and people? And what do you think the impact was on you?

MILLER: On me, that I accept any way anybody wants to live. I am no longer judgmental. If you want a refrigerator on your front porch, I 00:32:00don't care. You want to dress a certain way, I don't care. Before I went in the Peace Corps, I was so clothes conscious. I had to have the latest outfit. And right now, if I have jeans and a sweatshirt, that's all I need. I don't need anything more than that. The impact, I hope that working with the men and some of the women, that they realized that they could do things, they could pull themselves up. I mean, we had a few things where we wanted water supply, and there may have been a few strikes, and a few women may have stopped doing things for their husbands in order to ----------(??), but that and also they knew that I had no fear. That I would talk to the governor, I would talk to the mayor, and bring their complaints to it. And they eventually would come with me, and they would do the talking and get what they want. That they were capable of doing it. They could do it. That's it.

WILSON: And then that year production ----------(??) So did you continue to be in contact, or have you continued to be in contact with those people?

MILLER: For several years. When I got married, married in '71, several came up to my wedding. They had to bring me some Chilean champagne and a little bit of pisco. And then, through the years, they have--

WILSON: A little bit of--

MILLER: Pisco

WILSON: I don't think I asked what that was.

MILLER: It's distilled grapes. It's made from grapes, and it's sort of like a brandy. It's very popular in Peru and Chile. It's potent. Pisco sours there, it's quite good.

WILSON: How is it spelled?

MILLER: Pisco. You can buy it in this country. And then, when Allende took over, there were some problems. And then when Pinochet took over, 00:34:00there were more problems. And so basically I'm just in contact with one. Because I did lose some friends during those times.

WILSON: Have you been back?

MILLER: No.

WILSON: Are you going to go back?

MILLER: I have to go back. I have to get my husband and son back there. But the city had changed. It became very progressive. It put high rises, there was a big boom and the last photo, I have panoramic photo of the thing, I wouldn't recognize it anymore. But the boom has gone and the city is dying again.

WILSON: But I would think it would be exciting to go now with Michelle Bachelet.

MILLER: Yeah, definitely I want to go. I'm sure some of my friends are probably strong, avid supporters.

WILSON: Well, it sounds like some very exciting things are going to happen.

MILLER: The women were very independent. They were not subservient in the north. I don't know how they were in the south, where you had a 00:35:00greater Indian influence, they may have been. But in the north, very independent, very well educated. And those that didn't have education knew what to do. They were not subservient at all.

WILSON: What's been the impact of the Peace Corps experience on your family?

MILLER: Well, after I came back and married, and we lived overseas for several years and came back to the States, and I convinced my husband to apply to the Peace Corps, a staff position in Washington, which he did. We got to travel some more. My son was a Peace Corps volunteer in Congo Brazzaville in '97. My daughter-in-law was in Mali, '95 to '97, I believe. As a matter of fact, she and my son met when she handled his evacuation from Congo. She was the desk office in 00:36:00Washington. And when they had a coup and my son and two others were missing for several weeks, she was the one we had contact with.

WILSON: So let's go back a little bit. You came back from Peace Corps yourself in 1966.

MILLER: Mm hmm.

WILSON: And then what did you do?

MILLER: I worked out in San Francisco area for a couple of years. Went back to Florida.

WILSON: Doing what?

MILLER: Worked in San Francisco Bay doing industrial suggestions investigations, which was a strange thing. Then back to Orlando, worked for the government in Orlando, that's where I met my husband. We got married.

WILSON: Okay. And you got married in seventy-

MILLER: '71.

WILSON: '71. Okay.

MILLER: '73, we went to Thailand. And that's where our son was born.

WILSON: Okay. So he was Peace Corps staff at that point.

MILLER: No. He was still working for the government, US government.

WILSON: Oh, he was working for the US government. Okay.

MILLER: And then we went to Japan, and then came back when our son 00:37:00was five and a half. We were in Florida for two years. And then that's when he went, came to Florida and worked in the Peace Corps in Washington. Well, first with Action, trying to get Peace Corps and Action to talk to each other. Because at that point, they really weren't.

WILSON: That was before they split again.

MILLER: Yes. And they split, and he was with the Peace Corps and was head of overseas logistics for the Peace Corps. And traveled to all the countries, making sure there was supplies or whatever else. Probably one of the few that really went up country to visit everybody, because he enjoyed doing that. And then he was acting director in Tonga. And my son and I joined him for a few months there. Then came back.

WILSON: So this is in the 1970s?

MILLER: Mm hmm.

WILSON: That we're talking about.

MILLER: Yeah.

WILSON: So you lived overseas with your son when he was very young.

MILLER: That's where he was born, yeah. For the first five years, he lived overseas.

WILSON: Five years. And then, later, you visited Tonga.

MILLER: Yeah. For three months, we stayed there.

WILSON: And then what about 1980s? You were--

MILLER: Raising the son, I think. And doing a lot of traveling. We were still, whenever my husband would go different places, we'd join him, just for a few days or a few weeks and go throughout South America or --

WILSON: Right, right. And you mentioned your daughter?

MILLER: Daughter-in-law.

WILSON: Daughter-in-law, okay. So the daughter-in-law and the son met--

MILLER: When she handled his evacuation.

WILSON: When she handled his evacuation. Okay. All right. I see. That's interesting. And why do you think he joined the Peace Corps?

MILLER: Ever since he was a small child, I said, "When you get out of college, you'll go to the Peace Corps, and then get your master's degree, and then get married." So he did. (laughs)

WILSON: So he did what he was supposed to do.

MILLER: Yes. (laughs)

WILSON: That's nice. Okay. So what about you and your career path? What else have you done since Peace Corps? And you mentioned a couple of things.

MILLER: It's been eclectic. Again, living overseas with my husband, he went from one thing to another. And generally in most countries I would work, volunteer in a museum.

WILSON: Oh. All right. So you did that in Thailand?

MILLER: I did that in Thailand, and I did some cataloging. And then in Thailand, really, I was well into the language. I was taking five days a week, three hours a day of Thai. So I really wanted to get involved. I fell in love with Thai food. So that was good. Japan, we lived in a rural area in the country in a typical Japanese house with the straw 00:40:00floors and a beautiful garden. And I say only a Peace Corps volunteer would understand that. Living in this farm area, that you appreciate the customs. A woman would never come into your house to have a cup of coffee. She'd stand outside and talk for three hours. And I had been there about a year when the women invited me to come and sweep garbage with them. And every Tuesday you dumped the garbage in the corner, and the garbage truck would come, and all the women would gather with their little brooms, and sweep and talk for hours. And I was honored. I thought that was just, only a volunteer could understand that was an honor.

WILSON: I'm sure. And had you learned to speak some Japanese at that point?

MILLER: Some.

WILSON: Wow.

MILLER: In Thailand, too, it's different. I couldn't understand why the American women would look down upon the Thais when everyone that had 00:41:00worked for my husband was educated in the United States, and they were driven to work in Mercedes. And they said, "And you know all those funny little names. How do you know those funny names? And you remember them!" And I was not happy with some of the Americans. (laughs)

WILSON: And you found you were a different kind of American because you'd had the Peace Corps experience.

MILLER: Yeah. Very much so.

WILSON: Were there Peace Corps volunteers in Thailand when you were there? Did you know any Peace Corps--

MILLER: Not that I met any. I didn't meet any.

WILSON: Because there had been Peace Corps there for a long time. Okay. So what, I think you've sort of answered these questions. What has been the impact on your career path? What have you done since Peace Corps? What international experience have you had since? What international experience do you look forward to in the future? And you said going back to Chile.

MILLER: And still some more traveling. Oh, one of the Peace Corps things, when we moved to Virginia, and my son, I think, was in the fourth grade. So I said, okay, it's time to go back to work. And I happened to look in the paper for an ad. And it said, "looking for an ESL teacher." I can do that! And I called up the principal and said I'm interested. He said, "Well, send in your application." I did. And I said I'll be gone the last week of August. "Oh, that's okay." And the first week of September I get a phone call. "Well, we're ready for you." I said, "But am I hired?" (laughs) I said, "Well, I'd like to come in and look at your resource materials." "We don't have any." I said, "Has there been a program before?" "No." So, up to the Peace Corps. "Peace Corps, what have we got for ESL and TEFL programs?" And set up the program in Spotsylvania County in Virginia. And my first class of twenty-four mixed students of all levels and all 00:43:00nationalities. And the interesting handouts that I had. So I did that for several years, and that was fun. But otherwise, if I hadn't have been a volunteer, I wouldn't have had the guts to do that.

WILSON: But it sounds like it was an important thing to do and to get involved in. And you were starting something again from scratch, right?

MILLER: Yeah. But to learn how to improvise. And the Peace Corps was very good at sending me a lot of material.

WILSON: So you got to use the Peace Corps afterwards, too.

MILLER: Yes. Yes. Very much so.

WILSON: What do you think the impact of Peace Corps service has been on the way you think about the world and what is going on in the world now in 2006?

MILLER: I want to know what's going on. I'm curious. I get annoyed with newspapers when they say there's been a revolution in Congo. Which Congo? Break it down.

WILSON: (laughs) Right.

MILLER: There's an earthquake in Chile. Any special part of Chile? I'd like them to be a little more precise in the news. And I find I listen, my news, basically, is BBC to find out what's going on in the world. I sometimes take an overactive part in politics in how I feel on things.

WILSON: Like?

MILLER: I state my opinion and I work for candidates. I feel that I'm very--

WILSON: Good.

MILLER: And I'm concerned about the world. I'm concerned about what's happening, and what's going to happen to my grandchildren.

WILSON: Okay. I'm going to switch to the other side.

[Side a ends; side b begins.]

WILSON: What do you think that the overall impact of Peace Corps as an organization has been? And what do you think its role should be today and in the future?

MILLER: I think the impact has been very strong, because you always hear stories of someone who's now a leading politician in a country saying, 00:45:00"I remember when a Peace Corps volunteer told me how to brush my teeth." I remember those stories. The impact, there is an influence, hopefully positive most of the time, from the volunteers. They found out that we were caring people, and concerned about the world. For the future, I hope it just doesn't get too big. I don't think--

WILSON: Well it's only half the size it was when you were in it. They're talking about trying to get it up to ten thousand.

MILLER: And that's got to be impossible, because you will not find decent assignments. There's just no way you can do that now. I think we have to go for quality, rather than quantity. And I think it's still very important. The ones that are there and coming back, and the impact they've made and make in this country. That you will always be concerned. You'll never be blase about anything again. You're 00:46:00concerned about each thing that's happening in the world.

WILSON: And what about concern for our role as Americans? Did Peace Corps impact that?

MILLER: I hope it can impact and override some of the other goals that we appear to have in the world.

WILSON: One of the things we always do at the end is say what is a question that we haven't asked that you'd like to answer? In other words, is there anything else you want to say?

MILLER: No, I think that's about it.

WILSON: Okay. Thank you. (pause) Tell us about the grand finale party.

MILLER: Well, I'll tell you about my grand finale party. First of all, one of the newspaper reporters apparently liked me, but we did not date. And all these articles would appear about me, and I would be the star, the shining star of the city, and all my work and later the 00:47:00Santiago paper had a big write up about me.

WILSON: Do you have a scrapbook, I hope?

MILLER: Oh, of course I have a scrapbook. But the big farewell party was at the big hotel. Everybody got dressed up. But we had the university professors, we had the army that was there, because there was an army base. And we had the men from my sheet metal shop. So we had the entire range of class structure. And we had a ball. It was a very good party. We all got dressed up. And the next day was supposed to be all the mothers I had worked with in the centrals, and the men from the sheet metal shop. We were going to the beach for an overnight at the beach. And halfway there, the women in front, the truck caught on fire, they got burned legs. And it was a horrible mess. But we continued on with the party. But the men were all concerned about me, 00:48:00because some of the women had to go to the hospital because they were burned. And they all stayed up all night guarding my tent to make sure nobody would bother me. (laughs)

WILSON: Always taking care of you.

MILLER: Always being taken care of, yes. (pause)

WILSON: Let me ask you another question, based on our conversation after the first part of the tape ended. You were in Chile at a really interesting time in the 1960s. And were there during the election of Allende as well. Can you say something about what the political situation was like, and what that meant for you as a Peace Corps volunteer?

MILLER: I think we were briefed on the political situation. And I was there for Allende's first attempt of election. And we were told if things were to happen, then stay where we were, because we would be protected. My part of Chile was heavily communist because of the 00:49:00copper mines that were in there and the things.. Had several friends that were communists. But there was no friction. I think I couldn't answer, I think we invaded Panama and they said what are we doing in Panama, and I said, "I don't know what we're doing in Panama." "Why are you getting involved with Vietnam?" I said, "I really don't know. I've been away too long. I can't say," because I didn't know. I'd be at activities where they would sing the Internationale. But there was never a feeling toward me. I think perhaps because my maiden name is Shevchenko, and everybody assumed I was Russian, and therefore I must be one of those. (laughs)

WILSON: I hadn't thought about that.

MILLER: And safe passage through many areas in the desert where things 00:50:00were probably highly political. Several times my name appeared in the communist newspaper as being a spy. And everybody took that with good humor. Everyone laughed about that. "Oh, you're a spy again." But we would, after the elections were held, before the election was held, we were called back into Santiago to brief us on what to do or not to do. But they were very careful. The consul general did not ask us our opinion on how we thought our areas would go. I knew how my area would go, but no one ever asked me.

WILSON: And what did the Peace Corps tell you in terms of how you were supposed to behave as an American in this situation

MILLER: We had to arrive, the men, the boys had to arrive in suits and ties. And we had to have suits on. We had to be appropriately 00:51:00dressed when we arrived. There was only one Peace Corps regulation, and that was no beards. And that was because of the Che influence and the Cuban influence. And so if you wore a beard, therefore you were a supporter of Che Guevara. The irony of it all, I can think of Peace Corps training, you have to remember this was '64, and we had the medical doctor giving us our training. The men were taken aside and taught about condoms. Not one word of birth control was mentioned to the women.

WILSON: Oh my god.

MILLER: And I thought, that is the strangest thing.

WILSON: Did they expect men to get involved with Chilean women, but not women with Chilean men?

MILLER: Not women, I mean, we were virginal for ever and ever. The thought of even mentioning birth control was beyond what they thought. 00:52:00So again, there was that attitude. And even in Peace Corps training, we had survival up in the mountains. And one time we were up there for three days in the Pecos Wilderness and we got lost in a blizzard. And we built lean-tos and a fire. And everybody slept together. Well, one of the volunteers, who later was deselected, wrote to his congressman and said that Peace Corps volunteers were sleeping together. And there was a big investigation on our morals. And we tried to say, if you think anything would happen when we're in a blizzard in the snow at ten thousand feet, more power to us. But this was the attitude, then, that we all had to be perfect. As a matter of fact, one of the later volunteers in my town, one volunteer complained that she was sleeping with one of the professors, and she was sent home immediately. And it 00:53:00was in interesting attitude at that time.

WILSON: So did anybody in your group or subsequent groups that came while you were there ever marry somebody from Chile?

MILLER: In some of the other groups, in the later groups, yes.

WILSON: But you were supposed to have platonic relationships.

MILLER: Yes. Yes.

WILSON: That's interesting.

MILLER: Back to the communist influence, once in a while they would burn the flag at the American consulate. And I asked one of the college students, "Why were you doing that?" And she said, "Well, he's so good looking. We just wanted him to come out and talk to us." And I think she was serious. I really think she was serious.

WILSON: So was the university a place where people talked about political ideas?

MILLER: Yes.

WILSON: And was that part of, I mean, and then you had workers as well who were organized.

MILLER: Yeah. Yeah.

WILSON: So both of those.

MILLER: But the University of the North was probably more leftist, and the Catholic university more ----------(??) as the Christian Democrat Party. And those campaigns were going on while I was there, and they were very interesting.

WILSON: Okay. Thank you. That's a good addition.

[End of interview.]