Interview with Charles "Redd" Crabtree, September 17, 2007

Partial Transcript: Okay this is Kim Lady Smith.

Segment Synopsis: In this opening section, Redd talks about the injuries he has received from working with horses over the years. The most serious injury was a horse bite that caused some serious nerve damage.

Keywords: Arms; Injuries; Nerves; Tears

Subjects: Adoption; Crabtree Farms Incorporated (Ky.); Crabtree, Charles Edward "Redd"; Crabtree, Charles R.; Horse breeders--Interviews; Horse trainers--Interviews; Horses; Horses--Care

Partial Transcript: Well one of the things I noticed in the last interview, d--uh, kept kinda coming though was that you had a particular talent dealing with problem horses.

Segment Synopsis: Smith notes that Crabtree might have a way with troubled horses since people frequently sent problem horses for him to train. Crabtree talks about this possibility but humbly does not admit that this is the case.

Keywords: Changed; Horse training; Problems; Works

Subjects: Horse industry.; Horse trainers--Interviews; Horsemen and horsewomen--Kentucky; Horses; Horses--Care

Partial Transcript: Was there a--any of your champions that was particularly hard to train?

Segment Synopsis: One particularly difficult horse that Crabtree trained was Will Shriver. Will Shriver was worth the effort since this particular horse has been credited with saving part of the industry.

Keywords: Horse shows; Intelligent; Racks; Works

Subjects: Horse industry.; Horse trainers--Interviews; Horses; Will Shriver (Show horse); Wing Commander (Show horse)

Partial Transcript: So, um, you've won the five gated three times.

Segment Synopsis: Crabtree talks about the record he holds: winning three five gated championships with three different horses. He also talks about Calaway's Winning Ways, the horse he had recently been competing with.

Keywords: Calaway's Winning Ways (Show horse); Champions; Gates; Horse shows

Subjects: Horse trainers--Interviews; Horses; Teater, Earl, 1905-1972

Partial Transcript: Uh, how many times have you competed for World Championships?

Segment Synopsis: Crabtree started competing for world championships after he went to Greystone Manor Farm. Crabtree talks about how he initially started working at Greystone Manor Farm and how working there impacted his career.

Keywords: Hires; Recommendations; Sales; Wins

Subjects: Chief of Greystone (Show horse); Crabtree Farms Incorporated (Ky.); Dodge Stables (Ky.); Horse farms; Horse farms--Laborers; Horse trainers--Interviews; Horses; Teater, Earl, 1905-1972

Partial Transcript: It helped something else, I learned to drink up there too.

Segment Synopsis: Crabtree talks about some of the problems that the industry faces. Alcoholism is a big issue for horse trainers due to the pressure to succeed and Crabtree discusses his own history as an alcoholic. Another issue lies in the next generation of horse trainers that has come on the scene and are not able to train horses like Crabtree's generation was able to.

Keywords: Drinking; Horse training; Networks; People; Trainers

Subjects: Alcohol; Alcoholism; Horse industry--Law and legislation--Kentucky; Horse industry.; Horse racing; Horse trainers--Interviews; Horses; Louisville (Ky.)

Partial Transcript: Let's talk a little bit about, uh, uh, about some of the industry.

Segment Synopsis: Crabtree talks about his involvement in different organizations in the industry and about some of the issues those associations have tried to tackle.

Keywords: Associations; Members; Problems; Transfers; Worked; Working

Subjects: Horse breeders--Interviews; Horse industry.; Horse racing; Horse trainers--Interviews; Horses; Thoroughbred Owners and Breeders Association

Partial Transcript: I, I never will forget, we were trying to get a stud book...

Segment Synopsis: In this segment, Crabtree talks about some of his friends and fellow trainers in the horse industry. One of his friends was mistaken for a horse trainer by William Shatner. Crabtree talks about an encounter he had with William Shatner and about one of Shatner's horses.

Keywords: Art Simmons; Calls; Friends; George Gwinn; Jim B. Robertson; Judging; Royce Cates; Stud books; William Shatner

Subjects: Horse breeders--Interviews; Horse trainers--Interviews; Horses; Robertson, Jim Blount, Sr., 1926-; Swish (Show horse)

Partial Transcript: I'm gonna learn this, by the time this project's over, I'm gonna, I'm gonna understand everything.

Segment Synopsis: Crabtree continues to discuss his involvement with horse associations and their impact on the industry. One goal that some associations have is getting more people into the industry. The more people who are in the industry, the more it will flourish. Crabtree talks about some of the strategies organizations have used in the past and the ones that have worked best.

Keywords: Areas; Fairs; Filmed; Filming; Selling; Shows

Subjects: American Saddlebred Horse Association; Horse breeders--Interviews; Horse industry--Kentucky; Horse industry.; Horse trainers--Interviews; Horses; Lexington (Ky.).; Louisville (Ky.); Thoroughbred Owners and Breeders Association

Partial Transcript: Um, you've also worked with, uh, um, some government, state government organizations in over the Horse Park.

Segment Synopsis: Crabtree talks about the Kentucky Horse Association, another organization he was involved with, that focused its efforts on improving the laws and legislation of the industry. This included state legislation in Kentucky and federal legislation in the United States.

Keywords: Bills; Census; Walking; Walks

Subjects: American saddlebred horse; Horse industry--Kentucky; Horse industry--Law and legislation--Kentucky; Horse industry--Law and legislation--United States; Horse industry.; Horses; Kentucky--History; Law and legislation

Partial Transcript: Uh, let's talk a little bit more about your judging.

Segment Synopsis: Crabtree talks about his career as a judge at horse showing tournaments.

Keywords: Classes; Deformities; Desires; Heads; Horse shows; Judges; Rings; Rules; Shows; Trots

Subjects: American saddlebred horse; Crabtree, Helen K.; Horse industry--Kentucky; Horse industry.; Horses; Horses--Breeding; Horses--Diseases; Horses--Judging; Judges; Lexington (Ky.).; Louisville (Ky.)

Partial Transcript: Um, I wanna talk about, uh, your competitions a little bit more.

Segment Synopsis: In this section, Crabtree tells the story of how he bought a horse for someone that had agoraphobia. He did not realize it at the time and explains some of the confusion it caused.

Keywords: Fears; Good

Subjects: Horse breeders--Interviews; Horse trainers--Interviews; Horses; Louisville (Ky.)

Partial Transcript: Okay, we're back on again.

Segment Synopsis: One man who used to work for the Crabtree family was a man named Bub Gibbs. There was a time in the 1960s where Gibbs was the only white man to work on the farm. Crabtree talks about the reasons why that might have been the case, as well as Gibbs' family background.

Keywords: African American grooms; Bub Gibbs; Fathers; Grooms; Oscar Gibbs; Race issues; Talks

Subjects: African Americans in horse racing; Horse breeders--Interviews; Horse farms--Laborers; Horse owners--Interviews; Horse trainers--Interviews; Horses; Louisville (Ky.); Segregation

Partial Transcript: You have a favorite horse of all time that you trained?

Segment Synopsis: In this section, Crabtree talks about some of his favorite horses. He does not like saying that he has a particularly favorite horse or that any one horse outranks another. Instead, he has a long list of horses that he has enjoyed working with and is proud to have trained.

Keywords: Excited; Waiting; Working

Subjects: Chief of Greystone (Show horse); Crabtree Farms Incorporated (Ky.); Glory Kalarama (Show horse); Horse breeders--Interviews; Horse trainers--Interviews; Horses; Will Shriver (Show horse)

Partial Transcript: So when is your next competition?

Segment Synopsis: Crabtree discusses his competition schedule and the types of competitions he has coming up at the time of the interview. He also discusses his training schedule and some tricks of the trade he has learned from other trainers over the years.

Keywords: Competitions; Horse shows; Horse training

Subjects: Horse breeders--Interviews; Horse trainers--Interviews; Horses; Teater, Earl, 1905-1972

Partial Transcript: One of the things that uh--'cause I was reading about you a little bit and, uh, you're referred to as 'the legendary Redd Crabtree.'

Segment Synopsis: Crabtree talks about his reputation and the influence his career has had on the industry. He also talks about people he has worked with who have influenced his own career and other people in the industry that Crabtree has learned from.

Keywords: Beloved Belinda (Show horse); Brothers; Businesses; Charlie Glenn; Classes; Competition; Competitors; Dodge Stables; Don Harris; Earl Teater; Edward Teater; Frank Bradshaw; Garland Bradshaw; Influences; Influential; Learning; Lee Robey; Mentors; Michelle McFarland; Personalities; Shows; Tom Moore; Trainers

Subjects: Dodge Stables (Ky.); Horse breeders--Interviews; Horse industry--Kentucky; Horse industry.; Horse trainers--Interviews; Horses; Teater, Edward M., 1933-

Partial Transcript: Um, well that's most of my questions. I know there's lots of other things we can talk about.

Segment Synopsis: Crabtree spends a little bit of time talking about his parents and how he was adopted. He also refers back to his struggle with alcohol and how he was able to overcome his drinking problem.

Keywords: Adoption; Drinking; Fathers; Mothers; Parents

Subjects: Alcohol; Alcoholism; Horse breeders--Interviews; Horse owners--Interviews; Horse trainers--Interviews; Horses

Partial Transcript: Okay, well, um ,looking at all these photographs, I did have one question.

Segment Synopsis: Throughout the interview, Crabtree had some photographs of horses out in view. Smith refers to these photos and asks some questions about their history and significance.

Keywords: Amateurs; Barns; Fortune; Ladies; Roll

Subjects: Crabtree, Helen K.; Horse breeders--Interviews; Horse trainers--Interviews; Horses; Horses--Judging; Will Shriver (Show horse)

Partial Transcript: I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask you another one of my ignorant questions.

Segment Synopsis: Crabtree talks about the amateur and the professional racing industries. The status of the amateur is dependent on the racer and not the race horse. Crabtree talks about his involvement in the UPHA to tackle the issue of racers who qualify as professionals but compete in amateur divisions.

Keywords: Amateurs; Blacksmiths; Committees; Money; Professionals

Subjects: Horse breeders--Interviews; Horse owners--Interviews; Horse trainers--Interviews; Horses; Horses--Breeding; Swish (Show horse); United Professional Horsemen's Association (UPHA)

Partial Transcript: Okay, I'll just, uh, got one thing to ask you and then I'll, I'll leave you alone and then we can see if maybe we get together again another time.

Segment Synopsis: In this final segment, Crabtree provides Smith with a list of people she should contact in order to learn more about the industry.

Keywords: Contacts

Subjects: American saddlebred horse; Horses