Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History

Interview with Fred Siegelman, Bruce Bailey, October 31, 2007

Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, University of Kentucky Libraries
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SIEGELMAN: You'll do it or will I do it?

LANE: Uh, and I, I told, uh, Brit --uh, Bruce, we're just experimenting,-- Keith and I are just experimenting with this video, so you all are our guinea pigs to see how--

SIEGELMAN: --all right--

LANE: --this works, and, you know, you'll be recorded forever--(laughs)--

SIEGELMAN: That's right.

LANE: And Rebecca and all the girls say, are you sure you know what you're doing--(all laugh)--

BAILEY: Yeah, es--especially those two together--(all laugh).

LANE: Oh well, I, I ate my Wheaties this morning, but, October 31st, 2007, we're here with Mayor Fred Siegelman and Bruce Bailey, you are Director of Capital Projects?

BAILEY: No, I'm,just project manager for--

LANE: Project manager.

BAILEY: --for Facilities Management.

LANE: --for Facilities Management for KCTCS.

BAILEY: The man that makes it happen.

LANE: That's right.

BAILEY: -----------(??).

LANE: Keith DeYoung is our operator here, so Keith, you can say, hey, on camera, if you want to, or, knowing you, you're gonna stay right there- -(all laugh)--. Mayor, how long have you been Mayor of Versailles, since what year?

SIEGELMAN: Uh, I'm in my third term now, so,--

LANE: Um-hm.

SIEGELMAN: -- nine years, and uh, we've worked very hard--(laughs)--.

LANE: Yes, we ha--you have had a, you're having a busy nine years. I'm 00:01:00a Versailles resident so, I'm, I understand all, read about you every week in the--

SIEGELMAN: --um-hm--

LANE: Woodford Sun. Bruce, how long have you--would you give us an overview of your history of KCTCS, how--


LANE: --long you've been with it.

BAILEY: Sure, thank you, uh, I started with KCTS the summer that it was enacted, uh, in August of, uh, '98.

LANE: Ninety-eight.

BAILEY: Uh, matter of fact, I was one of the first employees that KCS hired as full-time, and uh, at that point, it was, you know, it was part of state government, part of the community college system. And the biggest obstacle they had to,-- they faced, was figuring how they were going to pay me, because they didn't know whether to put me on the UK payroll, or the state payroll, so, uh, but um, so when they interviewed me, I told them I'd work for six months, and they told me of the challenges. They wanted me to try to find a home for KCTCS, in the Frankfort area--

LANE: So from the very beginning, you--

BAILEY: --from the--

LANE: --that, that was the mission to--

BAILEY: That was--

LANE: --find a home.

BAILEY: --the first mission I was given; try to find a home for KCTS, because, you know, part of the staff was in Lexington, part of the staff was in Frankfort, and they were trying to decide where should the headquarters be, or where should the system office be.


LANE: At that time, Bruce, did they have any goal, as far as the total number of employees in five years, ten years, or was it just, build this plane as its flying?

BAILEY: A little bit of both--

LANE: --okay--

BAILEY: --obviously.

LANE: Okay.

BAILEY: Uh, matter of fact, uh, the first day I met with the president, at that day it was, it was Dr. Hockaday at that time--

LANE: Okay.

BAILEY: --who was the acting interim president for--

LANE: --um-hm--

BAILEY: --KCTCS, and Sandy Gubser. Uh, their vision at that time was the system office staff would be approximately fifty people--

LANE: --hmm--

BAILEY: --and for me to try to find a home for-- and that, what they were looking at was the UK staff and for the state government staff--

LANE: --um-hm--

BAILEY: --to see what I could find them real property, because where I retired from state government that was one of my job as facilities director, doing leasing for state government and things of that nature. So, uh, the word got out to try to get Bruce Bailey out of state government retirement and see if you get him to come on board for a while, make this happen, so uh--

SIEGELMAN: --I know you all were all spread out every--

BAILEY: --yeah--

SIEGELMAN: --wheres, so--

BAILEY: --we were, we were in every different location and uh--(clears throat)--

LANE: Were you instrumental in g--in the staff going to Spindletop?

BAILEY: Yeah, matter of fact, I'll never forget the day that Dr. 00:03:00Hockaday and I met with the governor, in the same room, and he made, uh, Governor Patton at that time then decided, uh, after all the talk about KCTCS, that he was getting some, uh, negative vibes, so I don't know how much of this we want to tell, but what--he would--

LANE: --yes--

BAILEY: --get some negative-- and everybody was thinking we were part of state government. And he said, "No, that's not my vision, that's not the vision of the legislature, we want KCTS to stand on its own as a post--

LANE: --hmm--

BAILEY: --secondary education organization."

LANE: Hmm.

BAILEY: And as long as we were in Frankfort, he was getting the feeling that everybody thought we were state government.

LANE: Wow.

BAILEY: And, uh, that's when his charge to Dr. Hockaday was, I want you all to find another place. But I want-- I do not want it to be in Franklin County now. I was looking for spaces in Franklin County for it.

LANE: Sure.

BAILEY: And uh, at that point, uh, he had his facilities director, who took her leasing, to contact me, to see what was available in surrounding counties, whether it was, uh, this county, Anderson County, Shelby County, Fayette County, wherever. Something the general-- general consensus of the area, that we could still draw from both sides.


LANE: Um-hm.

BAILEY: And after we looked at all the different issues, it looked like Fayette County, the Spindletop, area could be an operation. Uh, that location was already occupied, though, by state government locations. Uh, but the Council of State Governments had a building in front of them, in front of their operation, that was empty and vacated. And it had, oh, I think about approximately about fifteen thousand square feet, which would have taken care of about two-thirds of us.

LANE: Hmm.

BAILEY: And, at that point, so, we went and met with the Council of State Government, see if they were interested, in uh, renting to us, and they said, sure, so we took on that challenge and slowly but surely we took over the administration building, and the barn annex, and IT staff were in a different location. We had, at one time had four locations when we first moved to Lexington, so.

LANE: Four in Fayette County?

BAILEY: In Fayette, in Fayette County, and--

LANE: --and then were--

BAILEY: --firstly--

LANE: --some folks--

BAILEY: --and then we had--

LANE: --still in--

BAILEY: --and we had--

LANE: --Frankfort?

BAILEY: --some IT staff still in--

LANE: --yeah.

BAILEY: --in Franklin County--

LANE: --yeah.

BAILEY: --uh, at a leased property there too. So we were scattered pretty good, even when we came together as the one unit, so.

LANE: Did you ever get together, the whole staff? Would that be at Spindletop? ------------(??) staff?

BAILEY: Spindletop was probably as close as we ever got together.


LANE: Okay.

BAILEY: Uh, when Dr. McCall came on, um, his goal was always-- the first time I ever met him, uh, I will never forget the day that the three, uh, nominees to come in for interview process, to be the new KCTCS permanent president,--

LANE: --um-hm--

BAILEY: --I had the opportunity and the pleasure of driving all three of them around to the campuses and showing them where we were located, like that. And, uh, there was just no doubt in my mind that Dr. McCall was going to be the person, I mean, he just, to me, his, his way of communicating, his attitude, his personality. He was just overwhelming. I mean I just, I just fell in love with him the first day to be honest with you.

LANE: Hmm, Hmm.

BAILEY: And uh, he told me that first day, he says, uh, "If I'm lucky enough to get this job," he says, "we're going to find one place for us." He said, "You won't have to drive people around and around, and around to show them pla--" he said, "we will find one place for us."

LANE: Hmm.

BAILEY: That was always his vision from the first day.



LANE: --so, for--and that was the beginning of 1999--

BAILEY: --yes, um-hm--

LANE: --when he came--


LANE: In January of '99. So from that time, when was the next, uh, mention of Versailles? How did that all come, come about?


BAILEY: Oh, uh--

LANE: --when did you two first meet?

BAILEY: Well, I will tell the mayor my part of the story--

LANE: --yes--

BAILEY: --and then let him follow me--

LANE: --sure, that's great!

BAILEY: About, I guess '99, 2000, uh, we were contacted by Texas Instruments. Uh, that they had put this building up on the market, considering they were going to lease it out.

LANE: Yeah.

BAILEY: Uh, so, uh, where I had been out trying to find us a place in Lexington, to put us all together in one building--(Siegelman clears throat)--uh, that real estate-- one of them I talked with at that time, said, "wait a minute, uh, we have on our market, there's a place in Versailles, Kentucky. It's the old T. I. manufacturing plant that they want to sell," and so, I said, "well, can you set me up a time to see with them?" And I met Dr. McCall, he said, "Yeah," he said, "let's look at Versailles." So I came over and met with representatives of T. I., and, uh, I g--

LANE: --who was your real estate agent?

BAILEY: Oh, I wish I could remember his name, now I cannot believe, it's one of the--

LANE: --from local?--

BAILEY: It was a Lexington real estate agent.

LANE: Lexington.


SIEGELMAN: Yeah, -----------(??) time or two--

BAILEY: --oh man, what was that--

LANE: --Is the name Haymaker, or?--

SIEGELMAN: -- Haymaker--


BAILEY: Tim Haymaker.

LANE: Was it?


LANE: Okay.

SIEGELMAN: And Terry Kroger, with--

BAILEY: -----------(??)----------- --.

SIEGELMAN: -- his contacts.

LANE: Okay, okay.

BAILEY: So, they had me come over and meet with some T. I. Representatives, Terry Kroger and another individual, and, uh, the real estate agent. We walked through the facility and I took some pictures, and went back and told Dr. McCall. And, uh, so, a matter of fact, even Dr. McCall at that point called, uh, Governor Patton, and got on with his staff to find out what was the possibility of state government trying to acquire this place, or leasing it, or purchasing it.

LANE: Was--and it was empty then.

BAILEY: And it was empty--

LANE: --that was--

BAILEY: --it was empty then.

LANE: Okay.

BAILEY: And, they tried to look and that's when Governor Patton, uh, I guess, Lord, I'm trying to think, 2000, they were going through a real budget crisis--

SIEGELMAN: --um-hm--

LANE: --yes--

BAILEY: --at the time, and restraints--

LANE: --yeah--

BAILEY: --and things.

LANE: Yeah.

BAILEY: And honestly, they just couldn't come up with the money, and there just no way to, to figure out how could they acquire it and renovate it. And, uh, it was just one of those hard times ----------- (??)------------ --

LANE: What were they asking for it, Bruce?

BAILEY: I want to say three-point-five million or--

LANE: --okay--

BAILEY: --something like that--

SIEGELMAN: --yeah--

BAILEY: --or four-point-five million, I wish I could remember those--

SIEGELMAN: Three point six million ----------(??).

BAILEY: I, I can almost see that banner out front, the sale market price for things--

SIEGELMAN: --yeah--


BAILEY: --like that.

SIEGELMAN: And fortunately for us, uh, Joe Barrows was our state representative was majority whip--

BAILEY: --yeah--

SIEGELMAN: --at the time.

BAILEY: So, those talks hadn't sold, honestly, it just kind of died off the market--

LANE: --um-hm--

BAILEY: --then for about a year. And then that's when the mayor and his, uh, group, and T. I. got together and -- I'll let him tell the rest-- that's when we came back into the picture, after that.

SIEGELMAN: And well--

LANE: --hmm, after they contacted you?--

SIEGELMAN: --yeah, and it, thanks to Bruce Bailey and, and all parties that were, uh, I know Gary Cloyd was instrumental, and Gary, uh--

BAILEY: --Gary Grogan--

SIEGELMAN: --Grogan, and, uh--

BAILEY: --Ken Walker--

SIEGELMAN: --Ken Walker--

BAILEY: --yeah--

SIEGELMAN: --and Tim Burcham. But we, we were so fortunate, uh, to, to be able to make this happen. It was, you know, the number one feather in my cap.

LANE: Sure.


LANE: --where did the idea--

SIEGELMAN: --we basically--

LANE: --come from?

SIEGELMAN: Well, I went to--

LANE: --the original idea?

SIEGELMAN: -- uh, Jas Sekhon uh, who was director of Bluegrass Area Development District--

LANE: --um-hm, yes--

SIEGELMAN: -- at the time, and Greg McNally that worked there.

LANE: Um-hm.

SIEGELMAN: We went to uh, Texas. I set up a, I set up a meeting with the, with the president and said, "You know, I, I really want to come down and see you," so they were gracious enough to let us do so. We 00:09:00didn't tell them a lot.

LANE: ----------(??)----------. (Bailey laughs)

SIEGELMAN: And I--(Bailey laughs)--I just went in with a double-barrel shotgun approach and said, "You're killing me, you, you took jobs--

LANE: --um-hm--

SIEGELMAN: --and tax base away. Uh, you know, you can, uh, you can really look like a hero here, because you, these jobs are sent off to Mexico. And they don't want 'em there, they want to come here and work and make good money." And so, I said, "Donate the building to us, and we'll find a use for it." And, uh, after a very short amount of talking and, and explaining what we had in mind and what, what our thoughts were, and knew that, that we could, uh, facilitate this and, and KCTCS would love to be here and we could make this the headquarters for the, the state, and I'm thinking, wow, jobs, tax base--

LANE: --oh!--

SIEGELMAN: --you know, and of course it, it--

LANE: --because Fred--

SIEGELMAN: --as gorgeous as I envisioned this, I never--

LANE: --oh, right--

SIEGELMAN: --envisioned it, it's about ten times more beautiful than I ever envisioned it.


LANE: Well, well, tell us a little bit, let-- stop there if you would, and talk about the impact that, that pull out of Texas Instruments had on this community.

SIEGELMAN: Huge, huge. Uh, well, well over, well over three hundred thousand dollars, uh, in, in-- not only that, but when, when you start losing people that were working here, then if they have to go out of town and work somewhere else--

LANE: --um-hm--

SIEGELMAN: --you, you're losing even more money, because while they're in Lexington, Frankfort, Georgetown, Danville, Nicholasville, they're getting an oil change, or eating, or spending more money, so--

LANE: --exactly--

SIEGELMAN: --it was a major impact. Far more than what people would realize, just if the factory would pull out.

LANE: Because Texas Instruments had been here since 1953--

SIEGELMAN: --yes--

LANE: --in one form or another, had grown--

SIEGELMAN: --um-hm--

LANE: --and grown, and grown--

SIEGELMAN: --um-hm--

LANE: --to its, to its size. And I think you were saying your grandmother and your mother had--

SIEGELMAN: --yes, worked here--

LANE: --been employees.

SIEGELMAN: She and my grandmother, I think worked here for about twenty- six, twenty-eight years.

LANE: Wow.

SIEGELMAN: But, uh--

LANE: --so the impact was great--

SIEGELMAN: --the dream, yeah, the dream started to come true when they 00:11:00said, "Yes, we'll do that." So we formed--

LANE: --hmm--

SIEGELMAN: --a Public Properties Corporation, we worked very closely with, uh, with Bruce Bailey, and then President McCall worked it out to where, working with Governor Patton, and, and Joe Barrows to get monies in, that we could facilitate as a pass-through, and turn around and donate the building back.

LANE: Um-hm.

SIEGELMAN: We got them to donate it to us as, and formed the Public Properties Corporation, donated it back to 'em, and knew that they were going to be s--spending, you know, somewhere around six million dollars right off the, the bat, and, and, and we're thinking, anything and everything we have to do to make this happen, we--

LANE: -----------(??).

SIEGELMAN: --must and will do it--

LANE: --right--

SIEGELMAN: --at, because when it's over, it, it's, it's going to be the biggest thing that's ever hit Versailles in a long, long time. And it's been that and more. I mean are we at two-hundred and fifty-two jobs in?

BAILEY: Yeah, yeah.

SIEGELMAN: That about right?

BAILEY: Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see ----------(??)-------- -- (laughs).

SIEGELMAN: And tax base, and mo--most importantly, the headquarters for the state of Kentucky. And because of the monies spent, we kept trying 00:12:00to look and see, okay, worst-case scenario, what could happen here, so we can deal with this. When you're spending taxpayers' money--

LANE: -um-hm--

SIEGELMAN: --and taking on responsibility, you've got to think about that, and be careful. And time and time again, with, uh, meeting with Joe Barrows, and, and Governor Patton, and many others, uh that worst-case, we were looking at maybe a two-hundred-thousand dollar loss, and that would take the state of Kentucky to go bankrupt for that to happen--(all laugh)--so we felt, okay--

LANE: --you felt pretty safe--

SIEGELMAN: --we are, we're in good shape, we're moving, we're moving forward with this. And, you know, as it, as it started and, and started being built, and then got to where we had the--the grand opening here, and, and now the things that are just, uh, you know, we just last week closing out Phase II--

LANE: --um-hm--

SIEGELMAN: --and, and moving forward, it just gets better, and better, and better. Uh, I don't think there's, I--I think there's very slim chance that you're going to ever see KCTCS pull their headquarters out of here after this much investment. And it, it's worked out so good, 00:13:00because, and after all, we hate to brag, but this is the asparagus patch of Kentucky--(Bailey laughs)--right here. You are, you are as central as you can be in central Kentucky--

LANE: --you really are--

SIEGELMAN: --right here in Versailles.

LANE: Bluegrass Parkway.

SIEGELMAN: Sixty-four.

LANE: Frankfort, Lexington.

SIEGELMAN: --Seventy-five, all--

LANE: --yeah--

SIEGELMAN: --eight--twelve--

LANE: --they really are--

SIEGELMAN: --ten miles away.

LANE: Yeah, it's very convenient for--

SIEGELMAN: --um-hm--

LANE: --and how, oh, we have how many visitors a month here--

BAILEY: --oh--

LANE: --Bruce--

BAILEY: --each -----------(??)--

LANE: --from all the colleges--

BAILEY: ----------(??)--------.

LANE: --hundreds and thousands.

BAILEY: And it was always visioned to be that way--

LANE: -hmm--

BAILEY: --that we not only wanted to set up a system office for us, but we also wanted to set up a training center also.

LANE: Yeah.

BAILEY: One of the weaknesses we had in KCS, because we were s--all over--

LANE: --um-hm--

BAILEY: --was trying to train our own staff, train, uh, other individuals into bringing-- be part of the system itself. And bringing on, you would--that first five years was such a growing issue for KCTS on all the--

LANE: --you were--

BAILEY: --impacting--

LANE: --inventing yourselves--

BAILEY: --oh yeah, the impact to the communities--

LANE: --basically--

BAILEY: --the impact to the other local colleges. So we always visioned to have us a conference center, a training center. We wanted to be bigger, we just, it was like the mayor was saying, we were, we were 00:14:00just stuck on the money dollars that we could--

LANE: --sure--

BAILEY: --come up with--

LANE: --yeah--

BAILEY: --as far as being able to reimburse them and get back to the--

SIEGELMAN: Well, and they did it in such a smart-growth way--

LANE: --would, would you--

SIEGELMAN: --that little--

LANE: --detail--

SIEGELMAN: --by little--

LANE: --that agreement?--

SIEGELMAN: --little by little--

LANE: Could you detail that?

SIEGELMAN: Bruce could probably--

BAILEY: --yeah--

SIEGELMAN: --detail--

LANE: --both of you--

SIEGELMAN: --how they--

LANE: Yeah.

BAILEY: From the time that we started working with the mayor, and then we tried to make it reality, and working with--and honestly, like he keeps saying Senator--Representative Barrows at that time, we were the first organization ever in the state government to try to do a lease- purchase agreement with the--working with the local, uh, entity of government. So we had to build a brand new kind of a state contract document that we could present to the legislators, I can tell you--

SIEGELMAN: --through our Public Properties Corporation--

LANE: --sure--

BAILEY: Through the Public Properties Corporation. I want to tell you, it took us a year to finalize that document. That all parties, including the mayor's side, the local attorneys, his city attorney, our attorney, state government attorney, the legislative attorneys, that everybody could agree to one document. It, honestly, it took us a year to fi--finally get to that point where all parties were, uh, and I 00:15:00guess in agreement that we might have a document that we could present to the legislative body.

LANE: Hmm.

BAILEY: Uh, I'll never forget we went to the legislature that day, uh, to a hearing, and I guess there was about maybe twenty of us in the room--

SIEGELMAN: --oh yeah--

BAILEY: --and, uh, it was everybody, from Representative Barrows, to the mayor, to our attorneys, to their attorneys -----------(??)--

SIEGELMAN: And we were still at that time--

BAILEY: --and, and we still--

SIEGELMAN: --not sure it was gonna--

BAILEY: -----------(??) and not sure--

SIEGELMAN: --be a done deal--

BAILEY: --oh yeah, it was not a done deal.

SIEGELMAN: That was the celebration.

BAILEY: And, uh, Dr. McCall give up and gave a presentation on how this was such a win-win for everybody.

LANE: Um-hm.

BAILEY: Everyone at--we all knew it was a win-win--

LANE: Yeah.

BAILEY: There's just, there is no loss in this at all. I mean, we looked at--uh, for previous years we had put in the state budget request, a new facility for KCS, over and over again.

LANE: Yes.

BAILEY: And the first year we did it--

SIEGELMAN: -----------(??)--

BAILEY: --was at sixteen million. The next time we put in the session it was twen--it went to eighteen million. And the last time we done it, I think it was twenty, or twenty-one million.

LANE: Yes, um-hm.

BAILEY: And we kept trying to ex--convince everybody, you know, we can buy the, we could get this property free from the city, through 00:16:00a donation process, if we'll just pay for the renovation dollars, you know. All we had to do is show six-point-nine. It's, it's a win-win. It's a hundred and twenty-thousand square feet of building space, that honestly would have cost us twenty-five million dollars, if we went out and tried to build something that size. Uh, so--

LANE: So you were asking the--them, was that right, for the legislature for the six-point-nine million?

BAILEY: We were ask--no, what we were asking legislature--legislative oversight committee approval was, was to enter into an agreement--

LANE: --oh--

BAILEY: --with the city and Public Properties Corporation--

LANE: --I see--

BAILEY: --that we could lease-purchase the facility--

SIEGELMAN: --to make it happen--

LANE: --got you--

BAILEY: --and pay back the bond indebtedness--

LANE: --got you--

BAILEY: --on the renovation dollars itself.

LANE: Um-hm.

BAILEY: I mean, the public properties didn't ask for a nickel. We didn't ask for a nickel. All we wanted to do was do a rent--we, we hired an architects and engineers--

LANE: --um-hm--

BAILEY: --to come in and do a study for us, to tell us how much to-- the appraised value of it, of the building was or--originally--

LANE: --right--

BAILEY: --what would it be after renovation, how much it would take us to renovate the building And then and try to get all those dollars to prove that if we just did a little investing over a period of time, 00:17:00that we would have a fabulous facility. And, sure enough, well, long story short, the leg--I think the hearing went that day, went like an hour and a half of brouhaha. I sitting back there, I was like just--

LANE: --(laughs)--

BAILEY: --first I thought needles were sticking in my gut, and I thought we're not going to make it, we are not going to--

LANE: --it is not going to work--

BAILEY: --and finally, Representative Barrows went up front and spoke, and then, the state budget director, the assistant state budget director, honestly, Bill Hintze at that time.

LANE: Sure.

BAILEY: Bill just stood up and went up front, and met with the, the body, and him and Representative Barrows said-- and Bill explained to them, he said, "Guys, I've seen a lot of deals in state government. You all know me, I've been around here for years, and years," he says, "it's one of the best deals I've ever seen."

LANE: Hmm.

SIEGELMAN: Can you ----------(??).

BAILEY: And from him, and Representative Barrows, uh--

LANE: --it worked out--

BAILEY: --we left the room, uh, we had the approval to proceed and--

LANE: --how about--

BAILEY: --we did--

LANE: --that.

SIEGELMAN: And it's not a--

LANE: --that's amazing--

SIEGELMAN: --bragging thing, but because, uh, Bruce had been involved in, in so long, in, in what he'd done in the past, and what he knew this could come to, I knew immediately that, oh, this will be, you know--

LANE: --but, as you said--


SIEGELMAN: --a windfall of--

LANE: --it didn't cost--

BAILEY: --yeah--

SIEGELMAN: --yeah, and, and--

LANE: --anybody anything, but it saved so much, yes.

SIEGELMAN: Right, but what's amazing, is that, as, as much as I envisioned how great this was going to be, it continues to surpass my beginning--

LANE: --(laughs)--

SIEGELMAN: --vision, because, you know, now we're looking at a, a fire- training facility to come. Uh, y--we were, they were able to acquire more properties to make it more beautiful entering in, uh, and, and the esthetics of it all. We, we've got an entrance now that we worked on since before we even started, uh, the renovation, before they even started the renovation here, I was working on getting that entrance through--

LANE: --um-hm--

SIEGELMAN: --and looking to, to clear a couple of houses out before Railheads was even there, to put another entrance--

LANE: --oh!--

SIEGELMAN: --I envisioned, right by Railheads or next door to it, to come straight out--

BAILEY: --um-hm--

SIEGELMAN: --that way--

LANE: --Frankfort Street--

SIEGELMAN: --which we're still working on.

LANE: Really?

SIEGELMAN: Um-hm, we're still working on these. You've got Railheads here, and now the empty--

LANE: --um-hm--

SIEGELMAN: --lot--


LANE: --um-hm--

SIEGELMAN: --where he's using as a parking lot.

LANE: Right.

SIEGELMAN: The property next to that, we're still working on-- is there a way that we can find state/federal grant monies to get that cleared through, and see if we can go over the railroad tracks that way--

LANE: --that way--

SIEGELMAN: --and get another entrance. And clear it out to where Bruce and, uh, President McCall and I envisioned how we can have a beautiful rock wall going all the way up with an opening here, in KCTCS headquarters right off Frankfort Street. And have a, a, a viewshed to where you could actually see--

LANE: --um-hm--

SIEGELMAN: --parts of, of the building.

LANE: Oh yeah.

SIEGELMAN: So, we want to be able to get there e--every way possible that we can. Uh, e--as you come off of, uh, North Main and, and go through, it's just, you know, the buildings on the left and right are just not so pretty to--

LANE: -----------(??) through a residential--

SIEGELMAN: --to get there.

LANE: --section.

SIEGELMAN: Right, so--

LANE: --yeah--

SIEGELMAN: --we'll continue to work on that. But, uh, just the, the growth that is continuing to happen is just unbelievable. And, and, uh, and it, you know, that the statewide attention that it's getting, 00:20:00believe me. Other, uh, mayors and judges call me all time and go, oh,oh, you're so lucky--(all laugh)--I know.

LANE: We worked hard.

SIEGELMAN: We made--

LANE: --we worked hard--

SIEGELMAN: --and we jumped in and made it happen quick--

LANE: --well, you did--

SIEGELMAN: --before anyone else could even jump in, and that's why we flew to Texas and--

LANE: I see.

SIEGELMAN: --said, we gotta do this, we gotta have this. The key is, is that you donate it to us, and then we knew if we could get that done, that was going to be such a hurdle, that Bruce and all those people, and President McCall could say, look, it's twenty-five, thirty million to go somewhere else--

LANE: --yeah--

SIEGELMAN: --you can save a lot of money. And, we're centrally located, we're infilling instead of, uh, tearing down a, a--

LANE: -----------(??).

SIEGELMAN: --beautiful farmland or something And, and building something, so everybody's happy, or could--this could of easily been, uh, Overnite Express trucking company--

LANE: --yeah, that's very true--

SIEGELMAN: --something like that didn't-- look at the impact it would have had on all the neighbors, and the city of Versailles. Now it's just never ending. Good, good things continue to just happen over, and 00:21:00over, and over. The, the jockey program, I mean, that's huge.

BAILEY: Um-hm.

SIEGELMAN: I mean and, and we are the horse capital of the world--

LANE: --oh,--

SIEGELMAN: --right here in Versailles--(Bailey laughs)--

LANE: --most definitely.

SIEGELMAN: And, uh--

LANE: --well, during--

SIEGELMAN: --and remind Jim Newberry now--

LANE: --oh yeah--

SIEGELMAN: -- he doesn't like to hear that, but it's true. --(all laugh)--.

LANE: He, he claims it occasionally--

SIEGELMAN: --yeah, he does--

LANE: --on our water tower--

SIEGELMAN: --he does--

LANE: --or something, doesn't he?


LANE: Um, during that year of negotiation, and--well, I don't know about negotiation, but just working out your agreement. What were some of the--why did it take a year to get to that point? What were some of the other options?--

SIEGELMAN: --paperwork--

LANE: --things that were going on?

BAILEY: It, the m--I guess the main impact that we had on all the paperwork and trying-- it was the first one ever done.

LANE: I see.

BAILEY: --It was-- that was the biggest impact, trying to--

LANE: --hmm--

BAILEY: --trying to determine honestly, by state statute, was this a lease-purchase? Was this really a purchase that we really going, uh--

LANE: --got you--

BAILEY: --were we really committing state dollars?

SIEGELMAN: Can we spend taxpayers'--

BAILEY: --yeah, can--

SIEGELMAN: --money that way?--

BAILEY: --you spend taxpayers--

LANE: --I see--

BAILEY: --dollars. The issue--

LANE: --I understand that--

BAILEY: --was trying to read the statute and determine, how can you make it a lease, is it a lease-purchase? Is it really a property acquisition?


LANE: Um-hm.

BAILEY: So trying to get those words, and still meet statute requirements.

LANE: Hmm.

BAILEY: Uh, the final definition came out, it's going to be a lease- purchase, and by statute, we couldn't ob--and that's what, I think the mayor was, uh, going for earlier, we couldn't obligate state funds more than two years.

LANE: Aha.

BAILEY: --it, matter of fact, every year in the budget we had to put that in there, it should--

SIEGELMAN: --never knew what the legislature--

BAILEY: --it's just another lease--

SIEGELMAN: --is gonna do (??)--

BAILEY: --it's a lease-purchase. So we have to re-authorize, or re--request authorization to the legislative body to re-authorize the lease again until it's paid off. So that's where I think some of negotiations came in to be.

LANE: I see.

BAILEY: Uh, you know, you, we just couldn't buy it off the street. We just couldn't do this, or do that, without trying to make it meet Statute II, but--

SIEGELMAN: --but those things take so much time--

BAILEY: --oh, yeah--

SIEGELMAN: --because, even as--as Bruce said and alluded to immediately, in,in President McCall's vision of-- you want to be unique and separate, but at the same time, it's almost as if KCTCS is an extension 00:23:00of the state, and the state is the--is an extension of KCTCS.


SIEGELMAN: Because of, of how some--

LANE: --yeah--

SIEGELMAN: --of the funding comes--

LANE: Exactly.

SIEGELMAN: But anytime you're asking for-- legislation for money, they're answering all the taxpayers, every--

LANE: --and it doesn't fit in--

SIEGELMAN: ----------(??).

LANE: --to certain--

SIEGELMAN: --it doesn't come easy--

LANE: --certain--

SIEGELMAN: --yeah--

LANE: --niche and--

SIEGELMAN: --right, I think they--

LANE: --you got a--

SIEGELMAN: --all, anyone involved has to look at it--wow, we--we hit a homerun there--

BAILEY: --yeah, it--

SIEGELMAN: --a very big homerun, it's out of the park--(all laugh)--.

LANE: --(laughs)--Yeah.

SIEGELMAN: I think I have mentioned that in--

LANE: --yeah--

SIEGELMAN: --in an article before, I'm like--

LANE: --yeah--

SIEGELMAN: --this one is out of the park--

LANE: --out of the park--

SIEGELMAN: --what, what we were able to achieve here.

LANE: And then in twenty years, what happens?


LANE: --we, we, you, you own this facility, KCTCS?

BAILEY: --The--the facility will become KCTCS' on our last payment. Uh, as we-- like in this last phase, we just modified it, kept the same year. We did not change. We had to go through all this process again--

LANE: --um-hm--

BAILEY: --a year and a half ago. Back to the oversight committee to ask for a modification addendum to the lease agreement, uh, the lease- purchase agreement. We had the city now, the public properties-- so we had to go back through the same process again. So, in other words, the 00:24:00renovation, the million-nine we just spent on the facility--

LANE: --right--

BAILEY: --we had to go through the same process. Getting authorization with the legislative oversight committee, uh, to renew the lease, to redo it, but not to extend the timeframe of it. In other words, we kept the same timeframe--didn't increase any money. All we did was just change the dollars around where it met everyone's needs For the square footage rate-- we had to prove for this building renovation was, was equal or less than what we would have paid in Versailles if we went out and leased something.

LANE: Hmm.

BAILEY: Uh, we were able to do that just by, just comparing dollars, uh, that's how we got the authorization to do this part.

SIEGELMAN: And, and now, each time, uh, they'll go back, it's just, the process is that much easier, because they can see--

LANE: --right--

SIEGELMAN: --what a fantastic job.

LANE: --right--

SIEGELMAN: --everyone involved with--

LANE: --right--

SIEGELMAN: --KCTCS has done. And it just gets better and better--

LANE: --it got solid (??).----------(??).

SIEGELMAN: --so it st--yeah, uh, it doesn't matter who is elected and voted now in the legislation, they look at this and go p-f-f-f.

BAILEY: -----------(??)----------.

SIEGELMAN: You know, and then--

BAILEY: --I'm--now wait a minute, now let me pat him on the back just a little bit--

LANE: --okay--

BAILEY: --there, okay?

LANE: That's good, that's good.


BAILEY: I don't know of anyone else that hustled for us, and continues to hustle for us, more than this administration did here with the city of Versailles--

LANE: --um-hm--

BAILEY: --to be honest with you.

LANE: Um-hm.

BAILEY: Uh, now, and I appreciate him saying that, and I appreciate the public-----------(??), but he knows I know all the Public Properties Corporation gentlemen too, and all the members on that committee, and they're all great individuals But it's from their hustling and being part of our team, and wanting us here--

LANE: --um-hm--

BAILEY: --has made all this happen.

LANE: Um-hm.

BAILEY: When Dr. McCall talked to me, I guess, maybe a couple of years ago, uh, that we were acquiring possibly some new staff out of Frankfort, uh--

LANE: --um-hm--

BAILEY: --some new organization would come in state government, what could we do to take care of either getting them in this building or bring them to Woodford County. He didn't want to leave 'em in Frankfort, they're still in Franklin County, but he wanted to bring them to Woodford County. So I went to the mayor and public properties and said, guys we're, we're asking for your blessing again. We would like to get a bond authorization to maybe do another renovation to the building." Well, the mayor and the city attorneys said, we'll call the, 00:26:00uh, the public properties board together. Let's meet with them. You tell them the plan, what you'd all like to look at. And sure enough that same day--

LANE: --that's right (??)--

BAILEY: --they gave me their blessing.

SIEGELMAN: Yeah (??).

BAILEY: And, uh, so it's not-- yes it--got--it is with their blessings that we do it. But it, it's not that easy. We still got to go through all the steps, and--

LANE: --sure--

BAILEY: --and they could of very easily--the city could have said, Bruce, I'm sorry, you know, the city can't go under any more indebtedness for bond. You know, we just can't back the, the additional--

LANE: --sure--

BAILEY: --one point-nine million you all need here.

LANE: Um-hm.

SIEGELMAN: And we knew that-

BAILEY: -- ----------(??)--

SIEGELMAN: --you know, we knew, we would, would work hard to make sure everyone understood we had, as he said, great people, private business owners--

LANE: --um-hm--

SIEGELMAN: --and council members--

LANE: --um-hm--

SIEGELMAN: --and, uh, other attorneys, and the city attorney. Uh, you know, when it, when it's all said and done, we, we could see the vision of what it was going to be. In fact, I remember, our early-on meeting where there was a few laughing, and I think it may have been the, the oversight committee, uh--

LANE: --would you define that, the, the public properties oversight committee. Is that a term?



BAILEY: There's two different ones.


LANE: Oh, would--

SIEGELMAN: Public Properties Corporation--

LANE: --would you explain for us? Okay--


SIEGELMAN: --the city-- I, I formed and, and, and Bruce Bailey is on there, uh--

LANE: --okay--

SIEGELMAN: --Bill Moore--

LANE: --okay--

SIEGELMAN: --John Gay, Jack Kain, uh, I think he-- at, Owen Roberts, Allison White, I don't know if she's city--

BAILEY: --unh-uh--

SIEGELMAN: --I think she is on here, too--

BAILEY: --um-hm--

SIEGELMAN: --and, and, does books. But we had to put that together to facilitate anything and everything that President McCall--

LANE: --and Bruce--

SIEGELMAN: --and Bruce needed.

LANE: Okay.

SIEGELMAN: But when we were at the, uh, the, the committee meeting, uh- -(Clears throat)-I c-- I tend to get quite excited--(Bailey laughs)--but and, and, uh, I, I remember hearing some people chuckle, but I remember telling them, and saying, "We won't just get statewide attention, we'll get national, nationwide, attention from this." And I remember hearing some people laugh and now--

BAILEY: They -----------(??)----------- --

LANE: --no--

SIEGELMAN: --they're probably going--

LANE: --we do.

SIEGELMAN: --oh, I guess we shouldn't have laughed because, guess what, we have, they have gotten more than nationwide attention, more than once, and will continue to.

LANE: Um-hm.

SIEGELMAN: So, it,--don't think, and that they are, I, I, I would, I 00:28:00would think probably eight--ten people a year that are maybe coming to, to visit, and, and it looks like it's something else that has to do with their own systems, but have the thought in their mind of, how can we do this--

LANE: --let's figure this out--

SIEGELMAN: --in our communities, what in hell--

LANE: --what a--

SIEGELMAN: --did they get this done.

LANE: -- great use--

SIEGELMAN: --yeah--

LANE: --for, for an empty facility.

BAILEY: I mean, it, honestly, uh, Dr. McCall and I, and, and, mainly Dr. McCall, not much as me, I mean, we really took some negative feedback originally.

LANE: Did you?

BAILEY: Like, how can you really visualize that warehouse and that type of--

LANE: --oh--

SIEGELMAN: --That old greasy--

BAILEY: --old--

SIEGELMAN: --nasty--

BAILEY: --I mean, how--

SIEGELMAN: --place--did you ever see it before?

BAILEY: --can you all even visualize what you can make that place to be, and make it an office complex.

LANE: Hmm.

BAILEY: And, you know, and honestly, Dr. McCall used to do restoration on houses, I--

LANE: --yes, he did, he did--.

BAILEY: --do that still all the time--

LANE: --yeah--

BAILEY: --and you just, you have to look past the door. You have to get inside and figure what really can you make happen in this place. And so, really, I, and I will tell you, we've made architectural books for 00:29:00this building's design. We have--and I will tell you, I will thank our architects and engineers. They've led us and helped us along the way the whole time.

LANE: Hmm.

BAILEY: I mean, the concept of--

SIEGELMAN: ----------(??) a spectacular job.

BAILEY: --the front entrance is totally different than when it was a loading dock area. Now it's our grand entrance to the building.

LANE: Um-hm, um-hm.

BAILEY: Uh, what we've done, and what we visualized, which is gutting and starting over, and, uh--

SIEGELMAN: --Bruce--

BAILEY: -------------(??)--

SIEGELMAN: --Bruce was good enough to, to walk us through, usually every three to four days, we would come and walk through, the public works director, Bart Miller and myself. And, and just to start seeing it transforming was so neat to, to every day, and it was all, you know, just beams and steel, and--(Bailey laughs)--

LANE: --yeah--

SIEGELMAN: --and still the old concrete, greasy floor and, and, you know, it just, every day, little by little you'd start seeing the subdivider walls come up and things. And, and, and, and it, you know, just the start of it was,was amazing. And now, you see the next phase, the next phase, the next phase. And it's just, you keep, it, it just gets--


LANE: --keeps going--

SIEGELMAN: --better and better.

LANE: Um-hm.

BAILEY: I'm sorry, I did want to answer one of your questions ---------- -(??).

LANE: Yes, please.

BAILEY: The oversight committee--

LANE: --yes--

BAILEY: --and under the legislative body, there's subcommittees, as you know, and committees--

LANE: --okay--

BAILEY: --setting under-- in the legislature, uh, what you have to do when the legislature is not in session, there are monthly committee meetings and various committees. And one of those is the Capital Project Oversight Committee. And what they do, they, they review any capital construction issues, whether it's-- and, and then the, under the committee there is a sign that says, capital projects, leasing, uh, lease-purchases.

LANE: Um-hm.

BAILEY: And that's the reason this fell under that committee.

LANE: I see.

BAILEY: So we had to get their approval before we could proceed forth, and then, then it goes before the whole legislative committee at the next session, so, that's where that--

LANE: --that's the committee--

BAILEY: --committee ----------(??) comes into play so.

LANE: Good.

SIEGELMAN: And then, and, and as Bruce, said earlier, in that, you know, Joe Barrows, uh--

BAILEY: --yeah--(laughs)--

SIEGELMAN: --has been with us twenty-eight years, majority whip.

LANE: Yes.

SIEGELMAN: And, you know, in the eleven years I've been in, in, public service, there's never been a year that he brought the city of 00:31:00Versailles a million-- less than a million dollars--

LANE: --um-hm--

SIEGELMAN: --if not more.

LANE: Um-hm.

SIEGELMAN: And the county some also So--

LANE: --um-hm--

SIEGELMAN: --you know, having that, uh, relationship and a, uh, uh, great, uh, friend, uh, uh, of mine in, in Joe, and, and also having great relationship with Governor Patton--

LANE: --um-hm--

SIEGELMAN: --that's what makes things happen when you, when you're able to work with the, the top people--

LANE: --yeah--

SIEGELMAN: --who get to make these decisions.

LANE: Yeah.

SIEGELMAN: It's a lot, lot easier (??).

LANE: But they also knew you weren't going to bring them junk, you were--

SIEGELMAN: --no, sure--

LANE: --going to bring them a good, visionary project--

SIEGELMAN: --that's right--

LANE: --um, that, that you all had worked out.


BAILEY: And a lot, and it, I mean it's, it's a lot of us. I mean, it's a hundred people--

LANE: A team, yeah, yeah.

BAILEY: --I mean I--

SIEGELMAN: --I remember a lot of people--

BAILEY: --it's--

SIEGELMAN: doubting President McCall's--

BAILEY: --right--

SIEGELMAN: --idea of the, of the glass in the--

BAILEY: --um-hm--

SIEGELMAN: --windows, and I thought--

LANE: --really!--

SIEGELMAN: --oh, this is so spectacular, now look--

LANE: --yeah--

SIEGELMAN: --all that light, that, that--

LANE: --they felt like you--

SIEGELMAN: --comes in--

LANE: --should not go with that?

BAILEY: Yeah, we tried to, the, there was--

LANE: --energy savings?--

SIEGELMAN: --right, and--

LANE: --what was the--

BAILEY: --there was--

LANE: --what was the rationale?

BAILEY: There was no light in the building--

LANE: --no--

BAILEY: --there was no natural light--

LANE: --no, there wasn't--

BAILEY: --in the building whatsoever. Uh, the only light was, there was a like a one-foot window pane that went down this whole, on--the west 00:32:00side of the building.

LANE: Oh yes.

BAILEY: -Well now, we've, as you know, we've opened up the whole west side, that's an eight foot glass--

LANE: --yeah--

BAILEY: --window now.

LANE: That was so much healthier.

BAILEY: There was nothing across the front, it was a loading dock.

LANE: --(Clears throat)--

BAILEY: The only light they got in the building was for when they opened the loading dock doors--(laughs)--.

LANE: --(laughs)--


BAILEY: Uh, we put, we added skylights to the building, put some natural light in for the employees. We didn't want to make it feel like it--

SIEGELMAN: --They were closed--

BAILEY: --was still a warehousing scenario.

LANE: -----------(??) enough light.

SIEGELMAN: And it took from, from start to finish, from the time you walk in, until you walk out, everything is state of the art, high-tech--

LANE: --yes it is--

SIEGELMAN: --beautiful.

LANE: Yes it is.

SIEGELMAN: From, from the, you know, the, the floors of the, the-- of having the sub-floors, that actually sit probably what, a foot, a foot--

BAILEY: --um-hm--

SIEGELMAN: --and-a-half up--

BAILEY: --right--

SIEGELMAN: --so that you can take all your cables and everything to each little facility desk, computer, whatever. And they run up there instead of seeing ugly cords--

BAILEY: -----------(??)--

SIEGELMAN: --right around, I mean it's just--

LANE: --exactly, the aesthetic--

SIEGELMAN: --state of the art.

LANE: The esthetics of the whole design is there.


LANE: It's, as, as you say, it's not simply utilitarian, just useful. It's, it's very attractive as well.


BAILEY: If I may interject something.

LANE: Sure, please do.

BAILEY: Because I want, I want to pat some of our own employees on the back, too. What Dr. McCall had me to do then, once we got to the vision of, down to secure (??) the building--

LANE: --um-hm--

BAILEY: --Dr. McCall had me to give employee representatives, that he appointed, to a committee-- and it was called the, uh, Program Design Committee for the facility. So what we--there was like twenty, I think there was twenty-two of us, and we met in the old cafeteria area up front, and uh, we would-- I, matter of fact, I had those employees come to this building, because I wanted them to see it--

LANE: --right--

BAILEY: --in the worst condition.

LANE: Right.--

BAILEY: So they could understand what our-- what we had to get to a vision, of how we could remake the building. And we sat there for a solid week. We came every day and met with the architects and the engineers--

SIEGELMAN: --Had big pizza parties--(laughs)--

BAILEY: --had big pizza parties--(Siegelman laughs)--yes we did, we did have a big pizza party. And uh, we just tried to make visions what we thought the building needed.

LANE: Hmm.

BAILEY: That's the reason we wanted all the programming individuals in the buildings --from their side, what they felt they needed for the staff. What we needed to present for the building. And we really came up with a plan, and it was like twenty-two of us working around the 00:34:00clock, it seemed like--

LANE: --hmm--

BAILEY: --uh, and worked with the architects and s-- ------------(??)--

SIEGELMAN: --to keep leverage (??)--

BAILEY: --we just got team designs, and went back and made those presentations to Dr. McCall and the cabinet. And cabinet members would come over and join us some days. I'll never forget Tim Burcham and Dr. McCall coming over and sitting' in with us sometimes and giving their input. And so we just shared that, and that's how we came up with the vision, and--

LANE: --hmm--

BAILEY: --really we're probably not an inch off of what we were to--

LANE: --is that right?--

BAILEY: --design in that old cafeteria area--

LANE: --is that right?--

BAILEY: --five years ago.

LANE: So your committee said, we must have--what were some of the musts?

BAILEY: Must have, what we wanted to do, we, we definitely wanted a conference/training center.

LANE: Yes.

BAILEY: That was one of the things that the I. T. and, uh, the program staff, the chancellor staff just felt we needed, so we could bring in the, uh, representatives from the schools in here to train 'em at a central location. Uh, the other issue was, was giving everybody sufficient space. But knowing-- the biggest hurdle we had to do, was go-- most of our people that came from Spindletop, or from their other 00:35:00locations that moved here, 90 percent of us had private offices.

LANE: Hmm.

BAILEY: When we came here, the biggest hurdle we had to convince our employees of, was, we're going to an open office concept. And as you know today, we probably don't have ten private offices in the building, and it's, everyone now is in an open concept. That was a--

LANE: --whose, whose idea was that, Bruce?--

BAILEY: --that was really a lot of ours.

LANE: Okay.

BAILEY: It was really, it was one of those budgetary issues.

LANE: Um-hm.

BAILEY: It was one of the things to make us all fit, uh, and be pre-- become part of an organization, instead of-- I think what we all talked about was, before we were all individuals. You know, the facilities crew, you know, we had our own building.

SIEGELMAN: And user friendly.

BAILEY: The, yeah, the I. T. staff, they had their own building, the chanc--(Siegelman clears throat)--you know, everybody was on their own little buildings, their own little-- we were own, our own little groups. And the only way we knew we could make them all come together was kind of-- if we put up more barriers when you go to the building, then have we really taken down anything? Um, and economics was a lot part of that, it was kind of like the mayor was saying, we went to 00:36:00an open concept. We didn't want a building that had a bunch of power poles sticking up in it. You know. That's the first thing we told the architects. You're not going to put a power pole out of the ceiling to run somebody a telephone or a cable, or computer cables over. We wanted that all hidden. Uh, and we just, that's what we came to. Uh, and it all worked out well that way. Uh, but I think that was one of the goals, was trying to make it--we still had the organizational issues, but at least where everybody came together. Uh, we knew that the time savings from people in the old days driving back and forth between the four buildings--

LANE: --right--

BAILEY: --and having meetings. That's all, it seemed like we did before. I knew that just getting them in one building was going to be a major impact on us. We had people that communicated and had to share information every day who were in different buildings. Well, they, they--now they're neighbors in this building.

LANE: Um-hm.

BAILEY: I mean it just makes it all work better.

LANE: And that committee still meets, does it--

BAILEY: that committee--

LANE: --Bruce?--

BAILEY: --matter of fact we--

LANE: --for your phases?--

BAILEY: --met to, we met through to last month, we were finishing Phase II.

LANE: Um-hm.

BAILEY: So, we had never, you know, we, we had times-- there was six months there we didn't do anything, but we have been meeting every 00:37:00other month for, I guess, for five years, it seems like. We used to meet every other day, it seemed like too.

LANE: Um-hm.

BAILEY: So, uh--

LANE: --these big projects--

BAILEY: --it's amazing.

LANE: So you didn't have any arguments over the colors, like we do at church--

BAILEY: --oh yeah--

LANE: --the colors of the carpet--

BAILEY: --oh yeah--(Siegelman laughs)--oh yeah--

LANE: --the color of the pews--

BAILEY: --yeah, sure we did. (Lane laughs) But, the other thing we did, and, from Dr. McCall's wisdom what we did, as we were picking color schemes for the building, we wanted all the employees to choose that.

LANE: Hmm.

BAILEY: Uh, even we got down to equipment selection. I know everybody thinks, that, that's Bruce Bailey and Rebecca Weatherford back there picking out all our stuff--

LANE: --no, I knew-we knew--

BAILEY: --but, we, five years ago, uh, the, the design committee, what we did we, we got down to a vendor selection process on the equipment we were going to furnish. But what we did, we had those three vendors bring us in sample workstations and set them up in Spindletop Hall--

LANE: Hmm.

BAILEY: --uh, it was--to Spindletop Hall administration building, set them up in the foyer. And then we let the employees vote. So really, the--

SIEGELMAN: -----------(??)----------.

BAILEY: --the workstations we have here was the vote of the employees. It wasn't the committee. The committee, one thing we did was get down to a top-three selection, as far as the equipment providers. Uh, but 00:38:00the employees selected the fabric we've got today, that pic--, uh, uh, picked the three color schemes we got in the building today. So all that was determined years and years ago. So it made it, everything else easier.

LANE: Hmm.

BAILEY: And, and what we did in, in this last phase we just completed, we kept the same scenario, the same fabric, same color scheme. And we're just going to continue that. So, I know the employees tease me all the time, but yeah, we do have standards--

LANE: --for sure.

BAILEY: --uh, we all made that agreement a long time ago that, uh--

SIEGELMAN: --and stick with it--

BAILEY: --we would--

LANE: --yeah, -----------(??)-----------.

BAILEY: --commit, to develop (??) standards for the building.

LANE: Cer--certainly you do. Well then, then you're here and you have this great dedication ceremony in November of 2004. So, tell me, tell me about that. Who was here and what went on?

SIEGELMAN: Everybody. (all laugh) . Yeah.

BAILEY: It was a full house.

SIEGELMAN: Yeah, there-- it was. It was packed, and as I was saying, as we walked in, uh, the, the design and architecture of, of the open stairway, and, and the, the, the, there is almost a foyer as you, as 00:39:00you walk in, makes it so people friendly to where you can, you know, ha, have, have a, uh, speeches or, or different, uh, dedications or things that you want to talk about. I believe we had, uh, uh, I believe Congressman Chandler, uh, was here, uh, or was he then, uh--

BAILEY: --he sent his representative.


BAILEY: What's his name? Uh--


BAILEY: --local guy, the local gentleman here in town, oh--


BAILEY: I can't remember.

LANE: Oh, Loren Carl, Loren Carl.

SIEGELMAN: That's it.

LANE: Squirrel.

BAILEY: That's who it is?

SIEGELMAN: Um-hm, yeah, and, uh, we, uh, we had, we had a very good crowd. And all, all--the, just about anyone that was in local office was, was all here, uh--

LANE: --is that the same time that--

SIEGELMAN: --I would say--

LANE: --the TI'ers came back, or was that a separate--

BAILEY: --no, T. I. came back--

LANE: --that was a separate event--

BAILEY: --they came back--

LANE: --which I thought was--

BAILEY: --we had a,--they had a special reunion here--

LANE: --a very nice thing to do.

BAILEY: --they had, uh, we got with the, the old T. I. representatives and their committee, and, asked them to come by, we, you know, it's like the mayor was saying, everybody in Versailles, I think at one time 00:40:00worked at this location at one time. So, the more we talked to them, we told them, you know, come and visit any time. You know, we want you to come and visit. And they just couldn't believe all the changes going on in the building. So, some of their own employees, on their committee for the reunion, asked if could they use this facility at one time to have, have their reunion here.

LANE: Hmm.

BAILEY: And I think they had to bring in four hundred people that night.


BAILEY: I mean it, it was-- they packed all the front atrium area--

LANE: --hmm--

BAILEY: --and they just loved looking--

SIEGELMAN: --in, just in amazement--

LANE: --and I'm sure.

SIEGELMAN: --of the, of the transformation.

LANE: Wow.

SIEGELMAN: But, uh, yeah, what a, what a great day.

LANE: So, I'm sure you all, that was, that was quite a, a, a star day in your, in your tenure--

SIEGELMAN: --yeah--

LANE: --and, and in your experience. I know you've opened the many buildings, but this, this was rather unique.

BAILEY: Yeah, it was.

SIEGELMAN: And little by little the, the, the thing that still makes you feel good is they understand that-- the, the team effort--

LANE: --um-hm--

SIEGELMAN: --and, and what we accomplished. And still there's hardly a, a week or two that goes by that somebody in there should say, wow, that 00:41:00really is a neat place. I, I didn't realize that was there,--

LANE: --that's right--

SIEGELMAN: --and it's like, wow, you really--

LANE: Or where is it? The--

BAILEY: --yeah, yeah--

LANE: --kids still ask me, where is it?

BAILEY: Yeah, I'm still going to talk to the mayor about that.


BAILEY: We, we're gonna have to figure out a new address for the place, or at least change the name.

LANE: That is very interesting.

BAILEY: Three-hundred North Main, I, I know we love that, and--

LANE: --it's very interesting--

BAILEY: --we want to be part of downtown and that's really the--

LANE: Um-hm.

BAILEY: --reason, but you just can't find 300 North, North Main Street.


BAILEY: I mean, that's, if I get-- I've heard that a thousand million times, I guess--

SIEGELMAN: --right--

BAILEY: --when it gets right down to it (??) But--

LANE: -----------(??)----------.

BAILEY: But, it's looking--

SIEGELMAN: -----------(??) address issue change,----------(??).

BAILEY: Well, we talked to you years ago about that.

SIEGELMAN: And now that Sixty is opening up--

BAILEY: --yeah, yeah--

SIEGELMAN: --it may be something that is much easier to--

BAILEY: --right--

SIEGELMAN: --to change.

LANE: Um-hm.

SIEGELMAN: We do better on, uh, on, on signage, and uh, and--

LANE: --oh yeah--

SIEGELMAN: --directions--

LANE: --oh yeah--

SIEGELMAN: --because it, it is--

LANE: -- well, they find--

SIEGELMAN: --frustrating--

LANE: --us eventually--

SIEGELMAN: --to think--

BAILEY: --oh yeah--

SIEGELMAN: --when people say, my goodness how can it be this big and I can't find it? Well, it is tucked away, and it's right in the neighborhood.

BAILEY: It's right -----------(??)----------- a little--

SIEGELMAN: --uh, and that's all--

BAILEY: -----------(??).

SIEGELMAN: --the more reason why Frankfort Street is so centrally located, too--

LANE: --that's true too--

SIEGELMAN: --that I wanted that--

LANE: --you're right there--

SIEGELMAN: --clearing--

LANE: --you're right there--

SIEGELMAN: --I wanted that viewshed--

LANE: --yeah--

SIEGELMAN: --and we'll still work on that to--

LANE: --yeah--

SIEGELMAN: --to get trees down, and other things out of the way, where 00:42:00you can drive right past Railheads and look up and see--

BAILEY: --um-hm--

SIEGELMAN: --the building--

LANE: --um-hm, um-hm--

SIEGELMAN: --and, and, uh, you know, big concrete walls that almost like you see when, at the en--entering Spindletop.

LANE: Yeah, nice.

SIEGELMAN: That, that, that say, this is the headquarters, right here--

LANE: --we are something--

SIEGELMAN: --here, we're it.

LANE: We are the headquarters, right?

SIEGELMAN: That's right.

LANE: Well, and I don't mean that in a bad way--

BAILEY: --no, no--

LANE: --I mean that in a very--

BAILEY: --no, not at all--

LANE: --positive way. The thing that I have learned in studying the ten-year history is this whole, this whole transformation is amazing.


LANE: This is a great part of it.


LANE: The building symbolizes, I think, the building of this new entity, but putting it together the way you all did is just nothing--

BAILEY: --no, it was--

LANE: --short of amazing.

BAILEY: --it was a lot of people.

SIEGELMAN: And look at the change that you've seen due to this team and President McCall and many others of, back in the, in the day, of even probably the late eighties or early nineties, uh, people almost had the attitude of, oh, you go to LCC?


SIEGELMAN: You know, in, instead of UK? Now, hey, you know, that, that is completely transformed and changed a lot, I think, due to what the 00:43:00team has done here and, and how spectacular this place is, that people are, yeah, you know, KCTCS, yeah, they're everywhere--

LANE: --um-hm--

SIEGELMAN: --across the state--

LANE: Um-hm.

SIEGELMAN: They're, you know, they are opening up at constantly in other--

LANE: --yep--

SIEGELMAN: --communities surrounding--

LANE: --but they are headquartered--

SIEGELMAN: --and had--

LANE: --in Versailles--

SIEGELMAN: --that's right--(all laugh). It is, it is a big deal--

LANE: --doesn't th--

SIEGELMAN: --you know.

LANE: It, it really, well, it really is and I, and the first time I heard Gary Cloyd give a tour to some guests, he just said, you know, he, almost emotionally, this is just a win-win situation--

BAILEY: --it is--

LANE: --for, for Versailles, and for KCTCS--

BAILEY: --absolutely--

LANE: --and that's, it's just, it's really a model project, I think.


LANE: And so we thank you for your input. Is there anything else you all would like to say for the ten-year history record?

BAILEY: No, I look forward to Phase III.

LANE: Yeah!


LANE: Well, I was going to say--

SIEGELMAN: --absolutely--

LANE: --Bruce, talk a little bit about, about--

BAILEY: --oh, I--

LANE: --oh we know that there is--

BAILEY: --well, you know--

LANE: --visions--

BAILEY: --any of us--

LANE: --of the future--

BAILEY: --that know (??) Dr. McCall--

LANE: --but talk a little bit about that--

BAILEY: --I mean--

LANE: --yeah--

BAILEY: --his, his vision never stops.


LANE: Um-hm.

BAILEY: And, uh, uh, you know, and he is so inspired about what we've done (??) and accomplished in this last--

SIEGELMAN: --yeah--

BAILEY: --phase. And I know that he's speaking with local leaders, and talking with local staff here, and even hearing from the community and from everywhere surrounding. Uh, you know, he's already mentioned to me that he is looking forward to Phase III. We have already put that request part in our budget again--

LANE: --great!--

BAILEY: --uh--

SIEGELMAN: --right--

BAILEY: --for this next session to consider us to, uh, to see if we can finish Phase III. Um, uh, I think that Dr. McCall would like to see the rest of the building done. I think he'd like to see the word educational become part of this facility, you know.

LANE: Yes, yes.


BAILEY: --and, uh--

SIEGELMAN: --that was what--

LANE: --And--

SIEGELMAN: --one of my long--

LANE: --actually classes here--

BAILEY: --right, right--

SIEGELMAN: --that was one of my long-term dreams.

BAILEY: So, I think that--

LANE: --wow--

BAILEY: --I think sooner or later that--

LANE: -----------(??)--

BAILEY: --maybe we can do a little bit of both now--

LANE: --yeah--

BAILEY: --give a little on each side--

LANE: --yeah--

BAILEY: --and work it out, so, uh--

LANE: that, that would be--

BAILEY: --but, uh--

LANE: --even better for the--

SIEGELMAN: And we under--

LANE: --community too.

SIEGELMAN: --we understood that, that, that, you know, due to, uh, some of the budget constraints, and that you had so much that, that they needed to do here for the, the headquarters, that, that might be a 00:45:00little more difficult, but still I, I look for that day of, uh, and, and, and dream, and--

LANE: --um-hm--

SIEGELMAN: --hope to see that dream come true--

LANE: --um-hm--

SIEGELMAN: --that there is an actual, uh, facility here that, that, that you can, you know, be living here, and actually take all your--

LANE: --yeah--

SIEGELMAN: --classes and, and get maybe a, maybe it's a, just a, a two- year associates degree, or whatever, but you can do it all--

LANE: --right here--

SIEGELMAN: --right here--

LANE: --that's a great dream--

SIEGELMAN: --in Versailles.

LANE: That's a great dream.

SIEGELMAN: Yeah, that's, that's, that's something else. Because then you've--

LANE: --yeah--

SIEGELMAN: --then you've not only brought the headquarters for the whole state, and it's such a gorgeous transformation, but you actually have, the facility to where we, remember we talked about it--

BAILEY: --um-hm--

SIEGELMAN: --years ago of, wow, we could, we could do a walking- running- bike path, right from the high school--

BAILEY: --um-hm--

SIEGELMAN: -- and go straight through--

LANE: --oh--

BAILEY: --absolutely, yeah--

LANE: --wouldn't that be great?--

SIEGELMAN: --behind the church over there. And you walk, and you can be a--

LANE: --be great--

SIEGELMAN: --senior in high school and walk over here and take--

LANE: --(laughs)--.

SIEGELMAN: --classes--

LANE: --dual credit?--

SIEGELMAN: --yeah, take--

LANE: --dual credit--

SIEGELMAN: --classes so you actually could be, uh, you know, I,I had a niece that, that, she lives in Ohio, and she graduated high school with 00:46:00a two-year college degree--

LANE: --isn't that wonderful?--

BAILEY: --hmm--

SIEGELMAN: --when she graduated.

LANE: Well, I think about that when I go into the parking lot, and I hear the band after school--

BAILEY: -----------(??)-----------.

LANE: --practicing and I think, oh, it's not that far.

SIEGELMAN: Oh, it's a--

LANE: -- that would be a great connection--

BAILEY: I know we haven't said anything--

SIEGELMAN: -----------(??).

BAILEY: --about Judge Gormley, from the past--

LANE: --yes--.

BAILEY: --but, I remember when Judge Gormley would call me, and that was one of his visions, that whatever we could do to connect the high school to this building one day--

SIEGELMAN: --absolutely--

BAILEY: --that was always in his vision too--

LANE: --wow--

BAILEY: --so, uh--

LANE: --right--

BAILEY: --I remember many a conversation with him -----------(??) me -----------(??)--

LANE: --the former superintendent of schools, I'm sure that that's, that's foremost in his--

SIEGELMAN: --I'm sure--

BAILEY: --a desire--

SIEGELMAN: --he was my superintendent--

LANE: --he was, mine too--(all laugh)--mine too. Well, thank you gentlemen, I, what I would like to do if you have time. It's three. I'd like to go outside, have Keith take his camera. We're not, it won't be audio, but just document some of these, some of those--

BAILEY: --sure--

LANE: --just walk around the building with you two--

BAILEY: --sure--

LANE: --basically--

SIEGELMAN: --absolutely--

LANE: --and we'll, we'll just video, you know, the entrance and, and the new Marcum Drive entrance, it's coming on board. And we'll date that and put it in the archives, -----------(??).

SIEGELMAN: And we're going to have a big, uh, ribbon cutting--


LANE: --good!--

SIEGELMAN: -- ground breaking ceremony--

LANE: --good!--

SIEGELMAN: -- -----------(??).

LANE: We can do that.

[End of interview.] 124