00:00:00MCKENZIE: Yeah.
UNIDENTIFIED: Yeah, that's right.
MCKENZIE: We already know you're past that point. You've been
hanging out with Charlie Sheen.
UNIDENTIFIED: Yeah.
MCKENZIE: You're, you're many years ahead of most people.
UNIDENTIFIED: Doesn't have that childlike--doesn't have that childlike innocence.
MCKENZIE: Yeah.
UNIDENTIFIED: All right. Well, I'm all set. Um, so
Philip, first thing, can I just get you to say and spell
your name, please?
MCKENZIE: Yes. My name is Philip McKenzie. P-h-i-l-i-p.
M-c-K-e-n-z-i-e.
UNIDENTIFIED: What branch of the service were you with?
MCKENZIE: Tennessee Army National Guard.
UNIDENTIFIED: And, um, I'm sure Tyler here has told you exactly
what we're doing with the project. So do we have your
permission to use your likeness the way we've described it?
MCKENZIE: Yes you do.
UNIDENTIFIED: Okay, excellent. So Tyler, it's all yours.
TYLER: All right. We are here in Lexington, Kentucky with,
uh, Philip McKenzie. He's twenty-seven years old. He's a veteran
of, uh, two tours in Operation Iraqi Freedom. Ah, he's now
a student at UK. Undergrad. Studying business management. Ah,
let me start in your, your early years, Philip. Ah, can
you describe your--briefly your early upbringing? What your family life was
00:01:00like? What your interests and hobbies were?
MCKENZIE: Um, my early years pretty much started in, ah, eastern
Kentucky in, ah, Flatwoods, um, which was just a simple, simple life.
Just playing in the woods. Um, my dad worked on
the railroad. My mom was a nurse. Um, I've got
two older sisters. Ah, course there was, ah, common harassment of
one another. You know, the normal childhood grow up. Um,
and pretty much stayed there for about ten years, ah, till I
was ten. And, um, then moved to northern Kentucky, where, ah,
my dad had, ah, broke his back on the railroad, and they
pretty much said, "You're done here." So, ah, he went back
to school, went to, ah, Ashland Community College. And, ah, finished,
ah, his associate's there. Decided to go to, ah, Northern Kentucky
University, and, ah, that's where he further pursued a degree in sociology.
00:02:00Um, so that, that kind of changed my whole momentum of
where I thought I was going to go. Um, my grandfather
worked on the railroad. My dad worked on the railroad.
That was kind of, ah, an idea perspective of, ah, that town,
is just kinda go work on the railroad. So, um, so
that's kind of what I was expecting, course my dad went back
to college and kinda changed ideas for me at that point.
Um, my dad always--once I grew up a little more he kinda
started discouraging the whole idea, thankful that we even got out of
town. Um, by the end of my eighth grade year of,
ah, middle school, um, my mom got transferred by The Gap, and,
um, moved to, ah, Gallatin, Tennessee, which is, ah, maybe forty-five minutes
north of Nashville. And, ah, she became the occupational health nurse.
00:03:00Um, I wasn't too crazy about the idea. Um, I
kinda got settled in northern Kentucky, um, made a lot of friends,
um, enjoyed my time there, but at the same time it was
just one of those moves that was more beneficial for my parents
than anything. Um, but of course moved to, ah, Gallatin, and,
ah, you know went through high school, did the whole thing, got
in, got out. Um, wasn't ever really crazy about it.
Um, just one of those pit stops in life, um, when I
look back at it.
TYLER: Did you have any hobbies or--
MCKENZIE: --um--
TYLER: --something you specialized in in high school?
MCKENZIE: Um, I played basketball my freshman year. Um, which
I pretty much rode the bench the whole time. Just--pretty much
good enough to be on the team, but not great enough to
be on the floor and--which was okay with me, ah. I
always enjoy the game, now that I look back, I, I'd much
00:04:00rather coach, which I do now, for a little league team.
But, um, I played soccer growing up. Ah, I played all
four years of high school. Um, and--which you know I always
have a passion for it, but at the same time, it's just
one of those things I enjoyed at the time, and now it's
kind of that point in time of growing up and moving on.
So.
TYLER: Did you, ah, did you take to academics while you
were in school?
MCKENZIE: Um, wasn't always crazy about school. I was, ah,
the average student. I was more of your maybe sometimes low
Bs and high Cs. Um, I was never crazy about school.
I had one teacher that, ah, stuck out the most, ah,
Ms. Gill (??). She was a government teacher and just kind
of--she always encouraged me to try and go towards law school or
something like that, and, um, course my idea of law school is
00:05:00just so far down the road, it's not funny, but, um, yeah.
She was, ah, a big influence in school, so.
TYLER: But, just to make sure we put this in perspective,
what, what timeframe was this, your, your high school years?
MCKENZIE: My high school years was, ah, from 1999 till 2003.
TYLER: Okay, all right. So what, ah--during those years, where
did you see your, your path leading? Did you have, have
any visions for the future, post graduation?
MCKENZIE: Honestly, that's--when, uh, I moved to Gallatin, um, tha--that's pretty
much--by the time my freshman year got going, um, I'd say it
was probably in the--right after Christmas time, I started--recruiters would come to
the school an try an recruit, whatnot. And, um, at, at
that point in my freshman year in high school, I always knew
I'd join the military. Um, I've got a grandfather that served
in World War II. Um, I have a bunch of, um,
00:06:00uncles, cousins that served. Um, but at the same time, ah,
my grandfather that I was closest to, um, he served four years
in the Navy, and then did another twenty-six with the National Guard
in Kentucky. Um, and course I always looked up to him.
He was pretty much, ah, an idol to me. Um,
and which pretty much drove my motivation into the military. Um,
of course it wasn't till the end of my--I guess it was
the end of my junior year is when it came down to
all right, which direction will I go, which branch. And, um,
I really weighed heavy on the Air Force. Um, you know
there was no rhyme or reason to it. Just I loved
what they were offering, and then, ah, someone said I could be
on the ground, you know, shooting all these amazing tools and guns,
00:07:00weapons. And, um, that's when I decided the Army National Guard
was for me.
TYLER: So wh--why did you choose the Guard as opposed to
regular Army or Reserve?
MCKENZIE: Um, that was the thing. Uh, There was a
buddy of mine. Um, his name is Tyler Overstreet. Me
and him, uh, sat together our senior year of high school, and,
um, discussed about going active duty together. Um, Army-wise. Um,
his--I believe it was his grandfather that was, uh, in the Marines,
and he was kinda weighing heavier on that, an, um, then it
came down to the fact that he failed, uh--it was his junior
year that he failed. And, uh, I pretty much was already
a step ahead of him, and he, he stayed back a year,
and I just went on without him and just did the Army
National Guard. Um, so course later on he went into the
Marines, which--whatever floats his boat, you know.
00:08:00
TYLER: You still keep in touch with him?
MCKENZIE: Um, that's the thing, ah. Tyler passed away, ah,
in Iraq in 2006. Ah, I want to say it was
October 2006. From a, ah, improvised explosive device. So that's,
um, kinda tough. Ah, I'd just gotten home from my first
deployment, right after that had happened. So, um, he was, ah--he
was a great person. Amazing, ah, dedicated to his service, um.
What makes it so hard to, ah, realize is the fact
that, um, he was in country probably--I don't know, two or three
weeks. Found out that he had a son that was born.
And, uh, I guess it was maybe a few more weeks,
00:09:00maybe a month or two later, he was killed by an IED,
improvised explosive device. So.
TYLER: Were you, ah--were you still keeping in contact with him--
MCKENZIE: --um--
TYLER: --at that point?
MCKENZIE: (laughs) At the time I--before that, uh, during my
deployment, I, I would talk to him. Uh, at the time,
the big thing was MySpace of communicating. And, um, we stayed
in touch. It, it wasn't a close connection like it was
in high school. We both kinda dragged our own directions, and,
um--but still had a conversation every now and then, so. But,
um, he was definitely excited about being a dad. I, just
wish he could be there for him.
TYLER: All right. Uh, let's go back a little bit.
Back to--you know, you made your decision. The National Guard.
Uh, put it in context of the 9/11 attacks. Was
00:10:00this--did you already have your decision set before this?
MCKENZIE: Um, compared to 9/11, um, like I said, you know,
I was, I was all for joining in my freshman year of
high school. And, ah, 9/11 happened, uh, my junior year, beginning
of my junior year. And, uh, my grandfather who I idolized,
um, had just passed away, um, a month--just barely a month prior
to 9/11 taking off. And, uh, I remember coming home from
school, and I, I--my mom was sitting on the couch, and she's
just glued to the TV. I walk in, I was like
let's go to the recruiting station. Let's, let's get this over
with. And she's like no. My baby is going to
sit here on the couch. And we are going to watch
this. And just pretty much watched history unfold. So.
TYLER: I, so I mean tha--before then you knew you wanted
00:11:00to go in the National Guard.
MCKENZIE: Yeah.
TYLER: You knew you wanted to go in the military.
But after this I mean how long did it take for the
realization to set in that you weren't just going to be a,
uh, stateside, uh, force? You, you were going to war at
some point.--(McKenzie laughs)--How long did that take?
MCKENZIE: Tha--that's the funny thing, um, after, uh, I had signed
the contract, everything, and joined the Army National Guard, um, we--well, let
me take a step back. My, uh, my parents sat down
with me and the recruiter. And he pretty much told us.
You know the, the amazing recruiter story. You know, our
unit hasn't been deployed since World War II. You're not going
anywhere. You know. Everything's all hunky-dory. Tennessee National Guard
is going nowhere.
TYLER: This is after 9/11?
MCKENZIE: Yeah, this is after 9/11. Um, this was later
in the year of 2001. Uh, well--yeah, later 2001. Sometime
00:12:00early 2002. And, um, he pretty much, uh, fed my parents
pretty good. Gave my mom a warm and fuzzy. And,
um, so I, I finally signed with the Tennessee Army National Guard.
And, uh about a week and a half after graduating from
high school went off to basic. June of 2003. Graduated
in, uh, October of 2003, um, with a MOS [editor's note: military
occupational specialty] as a, uh, Nineteen Delta Cav Scout, um.
TYLER: What was your, what was your boot camp experience like?
MCKENZIE: (laughs) Boot camp was horrendous, um.
TYLER: Where did you go?
MCKENZIE: I went to Fort Knox, Kentucky. Um, definitely, ah,
a place not recommended, um. Course they're, they're changing their whole
training stations nowadays. But, um, Fort Knox could never keep a
consistent weather pattern. You know, if it said it was going
00:13:00to be sunny, you know it came a monsoon. Um, you
know if it was just light rain, at sometimes you'd have a
tornado. It just--I, I don't know how anybody could be a
weatherman in town. But, um, the experience itself, um, was--it was
hard at, at times, cause I remember the ph--the one phone call
I tried to call home, and, um, this was the first real
time of really being away from home. I knew I wasn't
going to be home any time soon. And, uh, I tried
to call home, and no one answered. And it's just--it was
devastating to sit there and think that--you know, thi--this was my one
phone call. I, I'm not getting another one. I--you know,
I, I tried to call again, and Drill Sergeant caught me.
And he's like, "you get one phone call, this is it."
You know. So, I, my eyes start to well up, and
I went to him, and I was like you know my family
wasn't home. I'm just--you know. And he's like, "I'll give
00:14:00you another chance later." So and later on--I, I, I guess
it was probably a few days later, I called again on a
Sunday, and, uh, got ahold of my mom. And, uh, of
course I'm like deep down pit of my stomach, I just wanted
to just cry and be like I'm, I'm okay. You know.
But of course she's, she's in different emotions at the same
time. And, um--but it was good, ah.
TYLER: Was she supportive of your decision?
MCKENZIE: She, uh--my parents have always been supportive, you know, they
always told me that, uh, no matter what direction you take, just
make sure it's the one you want. Um, you know, don't
let anybody influence your decision. You know. Just make sure
you lay everything out on the table, and know that that's what
you want. And, um, I mean they--wasn't crazy about the whole
idea. Especially, uh, the war had already kicked off in, uh,
March of 2003 in Iraq. And, uh, you know wasn't crazy
00:15:00about the whole thing. But at the same time they supported
my decision. So, but, uh, basic itself, uh, going through, I
remember, uh, the midway point, I completed my first nine weeks of,
uh, basic. And, um, they had the split training guys that
were still in high school. They were between their junior and
senior year of high school. And they only came to do
their basic, and they were leaving. And I remember seeing all
the families there. And that was just heartbreaking. It's like
I, I need to be that guy. I ne--need my family
here. I'm ready to go. And, uh, of course my
day came. It, it eventually came. Things got better.
Um, there was--I don't want to say the, the Drill Sergeants took
it easier. But it, it just became a lot funner.
You, you learn the job that you were going to do in
the Army. Um, you focus more on your job-specific training.
And I mean at that point it's, here comes a gun shooting,
00:16:00driving tanks. Things like that. An, um, course being eighteen
years old, you know, playing with all these amazing toys was just
the benefit of it all. So.
TYLER: Had you, uh--did you excel in any way in basic?
MCKENZIE: Um, honestly, uh, I did pretty--I'd say I did great
at PT. Um, I never was able to max out.
Um, I was six seconds shy of, uh, my run. I,
I needed thirteen flat to get 100 points in it. I
was six seconds shy. And, uh, to this day still drives
me nuts that I missed it by six whole seconds. But,
uh, um, course now I'm twenty-seven, it's kinda harder to even get
close to fourteen, but, uh, hopefully one of these days I'll get
back there. But, um, yeah. Excelling wise, um, I, I
just kinda kept my nose to myself. I, I really didn't
00:17:00try and stick my nose out there. I didn't want to
be the, the showboater or anything. I was just trying to
get in, get out and, uh, get going. Um, course I,
I just tried to stay hidden as much as possible. So.
TYLER: Any, any most memorable moment you want to share?
Any, any great stories?
MCKENZIE: Uh, I remember, uh, we were out, uh, doing our
lane training, and, um,--(laughs)-- it was my turn to, uh, drive the
Bradley, uh, the tank, uh, back in from the field training we
were doing. And, um, course I, I climb up the side,
and I set my, my, uh, M16 down on the side.
And I get in. I, I close the hatch down.
And I, I get the engine started and, uh, get everybody in.
And the drill instructor, he's--he makes a comment. He's like,
"All right, everybody's in, let's go." We take off, and I
00:18:00mean I'm dipping into mud pits, just splashing around, having a blast.
Course it's probably like three in the morning. And, um,
we finally get to, uh, the staging area with all the other
Bradleys and tanks, and, uh, I park. And he's like, "All
right. I need a sensitive items check." Well, I start
looking around, and I'm sitting here trying to figure out where I
had put my M16. And, uh, it finally dawned on me
that I'd left it sitting out on the railing of the, the
Bradley. And my brain just starts freaking out. I'm--I, I
know I'm gonna die. I'm gonna die. (Tyler laughs)
I'm gonna die. And, uh, I finally open the hatch up.
And look out there. And there it sits. And,
uh, what had happened? Like there's, uh, paneling that goes on
the side, which they call it a skirt. Which just kind
of covers the tracks. And, um, luckily they had them folded
up to where it wedged itself down in there and locked itself
00:19:00in. And, um, uh, if it hadn't of fallen in there,
it'd have probably been the, the worst day of my life,--(Tyler laughs)--I'm,
I'm pretty sure. So, but, um, you know in a sense
it's kind of a horrible story, but the outcome of it made
it probably the most memorable in a sense, that you know, you
know, little answers were prayered, in such a small way, but mentally
it was, it was huge. Cause you know, you lose one
piece of military property, and everybody stops. So.
TYLER: Have you ever made that mistake since?
MCKENZIE: Uh, definitely not.
TYLER: Good.
MCKENZIE: Definitely not.
TYLER: So lesson learned.
MCKENZIE: Yeah.
UNIDENTIFIED: Hold on just for a second.
[Break in recording.]
TYLER: Okay. Let's talk about your, uh, your military occupational
specialty. Can you give us, uh, the title of it and
00:20:00a description of what, what that role is in the grand scheme
of things?
MCKENZIE: Um, I was a, uh--my MOS is Nineteen Delta Cavalry
Scout. Um--
TYLER: --And also why you chose it.
MCKENZIE: Yeah. Um, the reason I chose it is pretty
much just because the unit was close to my parents' house.
Five minutes down the road. Um, and another reason was just
because it was a hooah hooah job. You know. Something
that would get me on the battlefield, I could, um, go into
combat, have contact, um, and it was pretty much just--it, it was
a combat MOS, a combat job. And, um, so that was
pretty much the main reason. Um, the job, uh, itself, being
a Cav Scout, um, the way the whole training went is either
00:21:00be a Bradley driver or sit in the back and, um, be
a, uh, dismount, which there's two scouts in the back of the
Bradley. And, um, if ever needed, they would dismount go into,
uh, forward positions, observe the enemy, um, uh, conduct, uh, in--intelligence if
need be, uh, find out what the enemy is doing, their positioning,
what kind of equipment they would have. Come back with that
information. That way, uh, my captain or platoon sergeant, whoever, would
delegate the information however, and, um, I mean I, I love the
MOS. It's, it's always been good. Just for the, the
action of it, an always the consistency. So, um, always let
me play outside. So.
TYLER: All right.
MCKENZIE: But.
TYLER: Uh, so what, what was the name of your unit?
00:22:00 And where were you stationed?
MCKENZIE: Uh, my unit was, uh, Detachment 1, uh, 3rd Squadron
278th, uh, Army, uh, Armored Cavalry Regiment. Um, we were located
in Gallatin, Tennessee. Um, like I said, just right up from
home. And, um,--yeah, I, I missed the whole question,--(Tyler laughs)--I'm sorry--
TYLER: --no it's--
MCKENZIE: I started talking and--
TYLER: --just asking what the unit was, and where it was.
MCKENZIE: Yeah.
TYLER: Uh, what, uh, what were your interactions like with the
unit when you got started training and everything?
MCKENZIE: Um.
TYLER: ----------(??)----------relationships quickly?
MCKENZIE: Well, I got home in, um, October of 2003.
And, uh, of course brand-new. I wa--I, I came in as
E-1 and, uh, reported to my unit. You know just everything
squared away. Um, went in, turned my information in. And
00:23:00of course it was a lot more laid-back than my brain was
kind of used to over the last four months of training.
And, um, so get all my information set up and, um, they
just kind of said, "All right. Well, you know, drill weekend
is coming up this weekend. Come in. We'll, we'll get
you your gear and all this." And, um, course I show
up, and I mean it's--I mean it was great. I'd, I'd
already met most of the guys before I even left. Um,
a couple of them I'd gone through basic with. Um, which
made the transition to walk into my unit a hundred times easier.
TYLER: Um-hm.
MCKENZIE: Um, and I mean most of the guys--I mean--(laughs)--half of
them got in when I was born in '84. And, uh,
course they're still chiming away. Um, and, uh, the camaraderie that
00:24:00the unit carried, because it was pretty much everybody in the local
community that was in this unit, and you know some of them
I'd gone to high school with their son or daughter, um, and
others you know probably just a few years ahead of me just
saying--you know giving me the hard time of you know go get
keys to the humvee when it doesn't even take a key to
start it anyway.
TYLER: Right. Right.
MCKENZIE: Um, so just little things like that. Just kind
of build me into the unit, which you know--now that I look
back, I, I, I can't appreciate it any more. So but.
TYLER: So wha--at this point in time, what was your, uh,
your long term expectations of the military? Were you thinking about,
uh, making it a career--
MCKENZIE: --um--
TYLER: --or anything else?
MCKENZIE: At this time, um, I mean I always told my
parents in the beginning that, um, I look to do twenty years.
00:25:00Um, you know, I can be thirty-eight when I retire.
Um, you know I, I'd be a fool not to. You
know I can retire, still have a civilian job. And, um,
you know just kind of double-dip when I'm ready to move to
Montana and live in an open plain you know of the mountains.
And, um--but when I got home, it was probably a month
later, um, word started getting out about, uh, active duty units looking
for, uh, anybody that wanted to automatically volunteer. Um, they were
trying to push so many soldiers into country. And, um, I--after
a Saturday, uh, drill I went home to my parents and sat
them down, and said, "Hey. You know I'm, I'm ready to
go. I, I want to go. You know I, I
went through four months of hell and high water. You know
00:26:00it, it's time for me to do this. While it's fresh
on my mind. Let me do this." And, uh, of
course my mom broke down and pleaded with me. You know
just, just wait until your unit gets called. Wait until your
unit gets called. And, uh, only thing is she, she kept
in the back of her mind is that the recruiter told her--
TYLER: --right.
MCKENZIE: "He's not going anywhere. We haven't been anywhere since
World War II." And, uh, that, that was kind of my,
my idea, is that I don't want to get passed up while
this whole war goes on and everybody else participates, and I just
sat at home.
TYLER: Um-hm.
MCKENZIE: And, um,--but I took my parents' advice. I kind
of waited it out. Um, just worked odd end jobs.
And, um, it wasn't till, uh, March 1st of 2004, probably about
four months later, got a phone call saying that the unit had
been activated for deployment. Um, which was interesting enough. Um,
00:27:00that day, um, my parents--a buddy of mine I, I grew up
with in northern Kentucky, he played college basketball. And, um, he
got me free tickets to a local college game that he was
playing in, in Tennessee, and, uh, I went to watch him, and
that's, that's where I was at, was at this ballgame watching it,
and got the word right at the end of the game.
And, um, looked at my parents, and said, "I'm, I'm deploying."
My mom is like what, what are you talking about. I
was like I, I just got the call. You know it's,
it's, it's time. You know. And, uh, course my dad
is just like blown back. Speechless. My mom. She's,
she's trying to collect her thoughts off this. And, um, of
course they go on home. And, um, I go to a
friend's house and explain to them what was going on. And,
00:28:00um, you know everybody kept telling me it's like well I guess
we're just going to have to break your legs, keep you here,
you know break both of them, whatever we got to do to
keep you from deploying. And, um, you know in, in a
odd way it's--you think about it, and you, you hear, uh, all
the stories that were going on of how the deployments were going.
Um, you know the battlefront was horrendous. Um, and in,
in a mindset you're almost like well if you're going to do
it do it now. Let's get this over with. But
at the same time it's--better stay a mile away. I'm, I'm,
I'm too ready to do this. And, um, it was, it
was a mind game. It, it started becoming, um--it, it became
a mind game in the sense that you know I, I was
excited, but at the same time it just--I don't know, it, I
00:29:00wasn't ready just yet. And, uh, of course we probably sat
around for another three months. Uh, the state was getting things
together I guess. And, uh, it wasn't till June of 2004
until we left for our, uh, mobilization training. So.
TYLER: Where'd you go for that?
MCKENZIE: Uh, Camp Shelby, Mississippi. Which is, uh, just outside
of Hattiesburg, Mississippi. Um.
TYLER: What, uh, what was your mission? Were you guys
given a mission at that point? Did you know what you
would be doing?
MCKENZIE: Uh, at that point in time, uh, they were pretty
much training us up as infantry. Uh, a lot of the
state was made up of tankers, cavalry scouts. Um, there were
mortar, mortarmen, um, artillery. Um, and they were still trying to,
uh, figure out who's going where, who's doing what. Um, course
00:30:00I was pretty much the lowest man on the totem pole.
So everything that had been known for like a month I'd, I'd
find out--
TYLER: --right--
MCKENZIE: --a month later you know. So, um, which, which was
okay with me. I, I really didn't want that aspect of
anything, I just wanted to do the job and come home.
So.
TYLER: So you're getting--basically being retrained as, uh--in an infantry capacity.
Are, are you getting any kind of cultural training? Uh,
are you getting you know fresh reports from--back from units in country--
MCKENZIE: --um--
TYLER: --that you know they're giving you an update of the
situation?
MCKENZIE: The cultural training, uh--(laughs)--was, uh, pretty random. Um, they
had, uh, local people, uh, come in, um, and the--I guess this
00:31:00is pretty much the main time when, um, the government was just
flooding money into getting tra--soldiers trained up. And, um, they had
these local, uh, civilians that would come on post and we'd be
training a certain scenario, maybe, um, doing, um, forward obser--observation bases.
Um, like working a main gate. Um, things like that.
And, uh, they would have these people come in and like try
and get in. Or, uh, they'd stand there and riot in
front of the gate, and, uh, do, uh, Arabic language, things like
that. And, uh, I mean that was--I, I have to say
that was probably about the main cultural learning that I really got,
was just those scenarios of the culture. And I, I think
it kinda hurt in a sense, because I, I don't ever--I, I
00:32:00never had that issue when I did get in country. So
you know it was kind of a, a failure in a sense
that that's not how things were in country. But at the
same time it just kind of opened your mind to the idea.
TYLER: Right.
MCKENZIE: So, um, I, I think it, it helped in that
capacity, but at the s--bigger scheme it was not as helpful.
So.
TYLER: Uh, so, uh, you arrive in country. Uh, talk
to that a little bit. You know packing up. Leaving.
MCKENZIE: Um.
TYLER: Arriving on the ground.
MCKENZIE: Yeah. Got to, um--I remember, uh, leaving a couple
days, uh, before Thanksgiving in 2004. Um, after six months of
training. And, um, they, uh, get us on the--all our stuff
00:33:00on the trucks, and, uh, I mean they're, they're using eighteen wheelers
to carry our stuff down to the airport. And, uh, course
being the lowest guy on the totem pole, actually, uh, loading the
bags on the airplane. And I think once I, I crossed
international waters--we landed in, uh, Ireland. And I, I think things
really started kicking in gear for me of you know this, this
is really happening. I'm, I'm really going. Um, but once
we, uh, landed in Kuwait, I think that's when it all just
blew up into proportion. Um, we got on the bus in
Kuwait. Um, they gave, um, probably like four people magazines to
load into their weapons. Um, provide security from, uh, the Kuwait
airport to, uh, the base we were staying at. And, um,
00:34:00I mean it--that really threw it into high gear at that point.
You know, um, you always use dummy rounds during training.
Um, whenever you would go do, uh, certain, uh, training scenarios you
always had blanks. And now it's, here's real live bullets.
You know. It's, it, it's go time. You know.
You need to pick up the pace now. And, um, you
know that was--that was really the biggest eye-opener. So.
TYLER: How long did you stay in Kuwait?
MCKENZIE: Um, I think we were there probably--I was there I'd
say right about three weeks. Um, I got there couple days
before Thanksgiving. Um, and the rest of the unit came over.
Uh, I kinda went with an early group, uh, only because
00:35:00there was a few seats open with the headquarters group that went
over. And course being the lowest guy, you go with all
the other randoms. So, um, so get there. Get settled
in. Um, and the rest of the unit comes over in
the next couple days. Um, they kinda give us probably another
two additional days just to get over the jet lag. And,
um, I mean I, I was probably there three days, and it
took me all three days just to get over the jet lag.
Um, I mean it was so bad. I, I remember,
uh, Thanksgiving Day, um, I ended up--they gave us these cheap little
plastic wineglasses with grape juice to celebrate Thanksgiving Day, and, uh, I'm
halfway out of it, and, um, I go to set my tray
down on a table, my, uh, my glass falls on a command
sergeant major. And what, what made it even worse is that
00:36:00he was talking to a two-star general--(Tyler laughs)--at the time that was
standing up to him. And, uh, talking to him. And
of course my brain, like I, I--my whole group of guys were
standing down here, my squad leader included, sitting there laughing at me.
My brain is not realizing the biggest mistake I'd just made
by sporing--spilling a glass on a command sergeant major, and in front
of a two-star general. And I--my brain is just like I
apologize. You know I tried to find napkins. And, um,
then I got another glass and almost spilled it again. So
it was--it was just a horrible day. I try and wipe
that Thanksgiving away. Um, but yeah, we were there. Um,
my unit was there pretty much two weeks. And, um, uh,
me and, uh, one other guy were, uh, selected to, um, be
00:37:00the only ones out of our unit to actually drive into country,
uh, with headquarters and other units. And, um, my squad leader,
I, huge respect for. Um, he, uh, went to the commander
and said, "This is my guy. If he's going on this
trip I'm going with him." And I mean he--commander told him.
He's like find a humvee. You know, uh, you're going
to have to you know do all the up armor to it.
Um, this is all on you. So he's like don't
worry about that, I got this covered. And, um, course tha--that
was the greatest thing, knowing that, you know me being twenty years
old at this point, you know, thi--this is real life is really
kicking into effect. And you know he's--I mean he stepped up
and looked out for me you know. Wasn't going to let
00:38:00me walk into this blindsided and, um, he made sure his humvee
was right in front of my truck. And, um, it was,
uh--I always, uh, respected him for that, you know. He didn't
have to. He, he could have just hopped a plane like
everybody else. And, uh--but it was good. So, uh, about
a week later we finally, uh, took off. Um, staged at
a, uh, base just inside Kuwait. Um, before making the trip
into, uh, Iraq. And, um, I guess that was probably maybe
two weeks before Christmas of 2004. So, um, that was a
journey in itself.
TYLER: What's the, uh--what's the drive like?
MCKENZIE: Ah, gosh. What was the drive like. I'm,
00:39:00I'm going to take a step back and kind of explain the
vehicle that I--
TYLER: --sure--
MCKENZIE: --was sitting in. And then, uh, it'll throw everything into
perspective. Um, Donald Rumsfeld came to, uh, our base in 2004
in Kuwait. And, uh, kinda having a talk with all the
soldiers and everything. And, um, he, uh, you know was talking
about all the upgrades that were to come, this, that, the other.
And it was actually a Tennessee National Guardsman that kinda called
him out on you know if, if all this up armor is
being done you know where's ours. Cause, uh, my vehicle, we,
uh, pulled the windows out of the, uh, LMTV [editor's note: light
medium tactical vehicle] which is pretty much like a five-ton truck.
Um, and pulled the windows out of the side doors, put quarter
plate paneling in them. Um, we duct taped the front windshield,
put a huge X. Um, duct taped the back side windows.
We put, um, metal plates on the back sides. Um,
00:40:00because the luck of my draw, me and one other guy flipped
a coin to see who was going to drive and who was
going to gun, and I, I got the short end of the
stick and got to gun. And, um, of course there was
no, uh--at the time they, they pretty much just brought in brand-new
trucks. So we had to pop out the, uh, ring on
the top of the truck, and, uh, we took a, uh, tie-down
strap, like a semi truck tie-down strap, and, um, popped holes in
it, and bolted it in, and that was my seat. Uh,
no padding whatsoever. Um, and of course I had a, uh,
240, uh, Bravo machine gun. And acourse I've got this weapon
that I had to pick up from side to side at times.
I have ammo spooled down inside. I probably had, um,
three cans of ammo linked together, you know. My, my brain
00:41:00was like if, if I'm walking into this I am not going
to be unprepared. So I mean it roughly came out to
almost six hundred--eight hundred rounds I had linked together that day.
And, um, acourse you know going onto the journey of crossing into
country, it was freezing cold. Um, I wa--I was sitting there
trying to hold the weapon. And I'm chittering the whole time.
Um, uh, the heater. Brand-new vehicle. Really didn't matter.
There was no windows. Uh, the hole was popped out,
so the heater was useless. And, um, so I'm, I'm sitting
there. It drizzled rain every now and then. Rained sometimes.
Cause it was rain season, lucky me. And, um, uh,
got on the journey going north and it was practically nothing.
Um, wide open desert. Um, and you know it was the
00:42:00most boring ride I'd ever been on. I, I think I
would much rather you know go sit on my own personal island
for days on end by myself than to do that whole trip
again. There's practically nothing around. You'd pass like these overpasses.
And there was nothing on either side of the road.
It was a pointless overpass to these highways, uh, running from Kuwait,
uh, going north. And, uh--but along the trip we, uh, came
to this, uh, one overpass, and just as, um, we got, uh,
past it, the, the whole convoy, which was made up of--jeez, uh,
I want to say maybe fifty to seventy something vehicles. Um,
and, uh, I, I'd say I was probably right near smack dab
00:43:00in the middle of this whole thing. And, um, we come
up on this, uh, father and his son and, um, this lady.
And, um, they're herding their sheep, goat, whatever you want to
call them. And, uh, uh, the sheep kind of get theirself
out onto the road. And this little boy runs out there
to kind of wave them back off the road. And his
father comes up with his shepherd stick, whatever. And raises it
just like this. And, I remember, uh, pointing my weapon at
him. And just kinda let him know that, that's not a
smart move at this point in time. And I looked back
at the rest of the convoy, and everybody that was probably supposed
to be looking to the right, probably the next fifteen vehicles were
all pointed on him. And, uh, you know I, I love
00:44:00kids to death, and I, I just couldn't fathom that idea, that
a father would raise his hand to his son for you know
trying to help him out. Course there was no traffic coming,
nothing like that. And, um, you know one of those little
speck of memories that you know it was no room for any
BS to happen. You know it's like everybody was sold into
the whole idea of going in and, uh, trying to help the
better of the country. And you know that seemed like it
was the first step for all of us on that trip.
So, um, course we finally get to a point. Fuel up.
We sit there in the baking sun. And, um, I
fall asleep on top of this truck. I pretty much get
burnt to a crisp. I'm, I'm already a redhead so it
doesn't help that I burn. And, um, so we sit there
00:45:00a couple hours, I burn to a crisp, we get going again.
And the wind is just, just making the burn even worse.
And, um--but anyhoo, get further up the road. Um, it--we
get to a point where we start getting into a, uh, more
urban environment. You know, you start seeing huts. And we,
we get to the next base. And it's just like piles
and piles of trash. I mean if you could think of,
um, going to a, uh, landfill and then these people going and
putting a house all around it, within it, and everything. I
mean that's, that's what this one area just--it, it blew me back.
I, I was surprised anybody would live in it. Um,
of course at that point I was--I was almost sold to the
idea. You know let's, let's drop a bomb, make this country
a parking lot. You know spread the wealth to somebody else.
00:46:00 And, um--
TYLER: Well, as a twenty-year-old, driving into Iraq--(McKenzie laughs)--what, what was
your, your knowledge at that point of--
MCKENZIE: --uh--
TYLER: --Iraq and the people?
MCKENZIE: My knowledge of the people? I, I really didn't
have knowledge of the people at the time. Um, I sat
in the truck for two days. Um, trying to get from
Kuwait to where we were, uh, based. Which was, uh, FOB
Cobra, Forward Observation Base Cobra, which was, uh, in the Diyala Province,
uh, which was maybe, uh, fifteen, twenty miles from the Iran border.
Um, which you know, uh--word started spreading that, um, Iran was
becoming an issue. And you know no one really looked forward
to that, because here we are, the first step facing that country
00:47:00if they did come. And, um--but yeah, on that trip I,
I had no perspective of them. Uh, I mean I could
only see how they acted, how they did things. And, um,
you know I, I, I couldn't fathom living that lifestyle. I
mean just how they--their, uh, their markets. I mean you know
I remember asking a kid once for chicken. And he comes
walking up to me with this live chicken squalling. It's like
no, this thing has got to be cooked. You know we
don't eat chick--chickens like this in, uh, America. And he, he,
uh, pulls a knife out of his back pocket. He's like--and
he's--he walks over to the front of the humvee and acts like
he's gonna chop this bird's head off. It's like no.
You, you need to go cook it somewhere else, you know.
You're not going to cook it on the hood of this truck.
And, uh, so, uh, yeah I mean for the perspective of,
00:48:00uh, being twenty years old and just, uh, making that two-day trip,
I, I had no perspective.
TYLER: Yeah.
MCKENZIE: So.
TYLER: All right. I mean that was--I guess we move
on to your first mission. That was essentially a mission in
itself. But your--once you re, uh, connect with the rest of
your unit there. Tell me about your first mission.
MCKENZIE: Um, I got there. Um, we got there probably
like two in the morning. And, um, we had stopped at,
uh, Camp Caldwell, which was, uh, where our main, uh, regiment was
stationed at. Um, so we, we make the trip in.
Um, middle of the night. And, uh, wake up, uh, the
next morning. Um, I found out that, uh, one of my
cousins had, uh, committed suicide. And, um--which kinda pulled me back.
00:49:00I mean we weren't close, but at the same time it
was family. And, um, it really wasn't the way I, I
had hoped to start this whole journey, once I got into country.
I didn't want the chapter to open like that, but that's
the way the, the book is telling the story for me, and,
um, I remember having to carry that, because, um, not that night
but the next night I went on my first mission, and, uh,
we were doing right seat rides. And my truck, um,--
TYLER: --describe a little bit what a right seat ride is.
MCKENZIE: Oh. Uh, right seat ride is pretty much, um,
the unit that is coming in to replace a unit, they ride
with that unit that's been there, and they pretty much outline, um,
what the area is, um, where certain spots are more hot, um,
00:50:00what are cold areas, um, you know where they've had problems, where
they haven't had problems. Um, and pretty much the best routes
in and out of town. Um, and we, we had two
towns we were in charge of, um, which was, uh, Jalula and,
uh, As Sadiyah were the two main cities we, uh, overwatched while
we were there. Um, there were other, uh, towns around but,
uh, of course other, uh, units had them. And, um, I
remember my first mission. Uh, it was in the middle of
the night. I had never seen the city. So me
walking into this with, um, night vision goggles, which is covering one
eye, whole new high speed night vision. And, um, I'm still--I
learned how to use them, but when you really put it into
00:51:00an urban environment where there's lights and then you have to use
the moonlight at certain times--and it was--it was just a bad night
to learn how to use the stupid things in a new urban
environment. And, um, I remember, uh, just one side of the
city I remember looking up, and all of a sudden you just
see rounds just flying straight in the air. And I was
like oh here we go. You know here, here's my first
piece of action. Let, let's do this. You know I'm
excited. And we get over there, and it's a wedding.
And, uh, so they're, they're doing the celebratory fire you know.
And, uh, you know we, we go over to them and say,
"You know don't, don't shoot in the air. You know what
goes up must come down." And, uh, acourse once we, uh,
leave them, uh, wouldn't you know they go right back to firing
rounds in the air again? And, uh, that was, uh, my
first night of experiencing, uh, that adrenaline build up. It's like
00:52:00it, it, it's hard to explain. Almost like, uh, skydiving or,
um, going on a roller coaster that you know has no weight
but just forcing you down. You know it's--so, um, that pretty
much kicked it off for me.
TYLER: All right. Uh, while you're there did you have--you
know we talked about your, your high school friend earlier. Did
you have any other friends or, uh, colleagues who were, were hurt
or killed?
MCKENZIE: Um, I had friends that, um, were hit by IEDs.
Uh, indirect explosive devices. Um, there was only, uh, a
few times that, um, shots were fired. Um, I, I could
probably count on one hand, uh, the amount of people that were
hit by an IED, um, which is a blessing in itself, to
be there in 2004--2005 still early in the war, and you know,
00:53:00um, nobody was sent home, you know. Um, some people were
flown out because of concussions, things like that. Um, being evaced
out. But, uh, you know thankfully I mean everybody was able
to walk in and walk right back out. Uh, so.
TYLER: What were the, uh, main problem areas in your unit's
area?
MCKENZIE: Um, there was --
TYLER: --sectarian violence? Or was --
MCKENZIE: --there was--you know I, I say this lightly. Um,
there was a group that, uh, kept lobbing mortars towards our base.
And, uh, there was times where you would hear, uh, it
sounded like a can. Like whooping end over end. It's
like whoop whoop whoop. And you'd hear it, and just kind
00:54:00of look up, see where it's going, and, uh, you know if
it sounded like it was going to just fall on you, you
know you'd take off. If not it's like well hope it
doesn't land inside the base. And you just keep going about
your business. Until something sparks to say hey, you know, this
just happened, blah blah blah. But until then you just walk
about your business. I remember one night being in, uh, flip-flops
walking across gravel with my towel. And, um, going to the
showers. And there it goes. Just stirring up. And,
uh, here I stand just watching it. And I saw the
dust cloud off in the distance that night. And, uh, it's
like well at least it didn't land over here. And just
go right on in my CHU [editor's note: containerized housing unit] and--
TYLER: --someone else's business.
MCKENZIE: --not--yeah. Like it was nothing. And, um, you
know at a certain point in time you almost have to sell
yourself as you know--you know if it happens it happens. You
00:55:00know I don't want it to happen. I want to go
home. But at the same time if it does, guess God
said it was my time.
TYLER: Just desensitized to the whole, uh, whole--
MCKENZIE: --yeah--
TYLER: --experience. Uh, did you ever experience, uh, direct contact on
that first deployment?
MCKENZIE: Um--(laughs)--there was one night. It was, uh--the--there was other
occasions that happened. Um, there was one, we were at the,
uh, Sadiyah city council building. And, um, I was on top
of, uh, the city council building. And our, uh, uh, colonel
was there to meet with local officials. They were trying to,
uh, like build a hospital for the community, um, work on roads,
um, build, uh, wells, dig them up, uh, provide more, uh, natural
water, uh, within the city. And, um, I'm sitting on top
00:56:00of this building. Everybody else is out in this courtyard, which
is, uh, blocked off by a wall that--you know, no one could
see in. And, um, acourse I'm just overwatching everything. Me
and a couple others. And all of a sudden you just
hear this--(makes rocket noise)--and it--you hear this explosion off in the distance.
And I look behind me and, uh, out in this palm
grove, uh, someone had tried to fire an RPG [editor's note: rocket
propelled grenade] at us. And, uh, luckily the palm grove I
guess was just thick enough that you know, there was no way
for this rocket to get out. And, um, course you think
about it, and it's like well, thankfully it stopped there. But
at the same time it's like there's probably a hundred people down
there. You know me on top of this roof. There's
three or four or five others up here. You know it's--it
could have been horrible. And, um, you know that, that's one
of those things you just kind of desensitize the whole thing and
00:57:00become coldhearted to the whole idea that you know if it happens
it happens, whatever. You know. Luckily I get to stay
in here and pull guard for another four hours. While they
sit down there, drink their chai tea and I'm baking in the
sun again. And, um--but that was one of, uh, many little
problems. Um, I remember another time. Um, we were at
another base, um, at, uh, LSA Anaconda and, uh--which is around Balad,
just outside of Baghdad, uh, east of, uh, Baghdad. And, um,
I had torn my eardrum from diving off a high dive at,
uh, the pool that day. And, um, I went to, uh,
see the medic, um, at a local hospital, Australian guy. It
was--it was humorous. And, uh--just to hear him talk. And
00:58:00the whole time, uh, you know I'm, I'm just sitting here in
pain, he's just prodding in there, I'd torn a hole in my
eardrum from the pressure, and, uh, he'd given me this medicine.
I mean it just made me loopy. And, uh, my lieutenant,
uh, took me back to meet up with all the other guys
cause at night, uh, we were going back to our base, which
is probably a good solid three-hour drive. And, um, so, uh,
on that trip you know I'm in and out of it.
I'm just talking randomness. And, um, acourse I was still coherent.
I, I could make sense of everything. But at the
same time it was just a, a very calming sensation. And,
um, we come up on this situation where, um, there's a couple
cars on, uh, this little hill just up, uh, next to the
road. And then there was cars actually down beside the road.
And, uh, my LT makes the decision we're going to stop,
figure out what's going on, you know if it's nothing we'll just
00:59:00move on. We'll push out. And, um, so, um, he
finds out that a, uh, colonel for the local, uh, Iraqi police
had, um, been, uh, coldcocked in the back of the head with
his own weapon. Someone had stolen his, uh, uh, sidearm, his
pistol, whatever. And, uh, then there was other local, uh, people
with him. And, uh, we're, we're trying to make sense.
We set up security on the road. And then, uh, some
up on top of this little hilltop with these other vehicles.
And, uh, they're trying to make sense blah blah blah. And
all of a sudden you just start hearing rounds whiz by.
I mean it's overhead. And I remember at one point looking
up. And you could just see the tracer rounds on these
bullets that are just flying over. Now here I, I stand
you know looking at it. And I--to this day I think
if I'd have probably raised my hand all the way up I'd
01:00:00have probably touched it.
TYLER: What were you thinking was going on?
MCKENZIE: Uh, at, at, at the, at the first moment you
know I was still caught off guard cause everybody was you know
it, it was--it stunned you because you weren't expecting this. And,
um, I remember one words coming out, someone yelling, uh, it's an
ambush. Um, course we had full 360 on top of the
hill and down on the road. Um, and course we're out
in the middle of nowhere. I mean you can't see where
it's coming from. We couldn't see a muzzle flash. Um,
and finally it was probably like one minute of rounds. Just
kind of going over. But it was so fast. I
mean you wouldn't think that it was a minute. And, um,
after it all--during the whole situation, uh, I remember getting cover.
And it wasn't you know where's everybody at, you know what I
do need to do next. The first thing that popped in
01:01:00my mind is you know who, who's going to explain this to
my mom. You know if, if I don't walk out of
this who's going to explain this to her. Cause you know
I, I wish you the best of luck. You know it's
like you know God you're going to have to be with my
mother on this one cause, you know if I don't walk out
of this Katy bar the front doors of the White House cause
here comes my mother you know. And, uh, you know it,
it, it kinda, it--I think that was really an instance that just
set everything to a tone and a pace that you know a--as
soon as you know I heard McKenzie it was like everything from
then on was just muscle memory. All right. Providing security.
Um, making sure everybody was, uh, within eyesight. Everybody was
good. Um, and, uh, I remember our XO [editor's note: executive
officer]. He called up air support. I mean Apaches, just
ruling the air. The Air Force came in above them.
01:02:00Trying to scan the area. And, uh, come to find out,
um, probably--I, I don't know how far away. But, uh, there
was local IPs set up--
TYLER: --IPs are--
MCKENZIE: --on this little hilltop. Huh?
TYLER: IPs?
MCKENZIE: Yeah, Iraq--no, not IPs. I apologize. It was
Iraqi Army.
TYLER: Okay.
MCKENZIE: That was sitting on this little hilltop. And, uh,
come to find out they come down to us afterwards, because our
headlights are on, you know. I mean we were plain as
day. And they figured that's pretty much what set us out.
That we had our headlights on. And, um, come to
find out here comes this yahoo of a colonel I guess or
captain for the Iraqi Army. And, uh, come to find out
it was the Iraqi Army shooting at us. And, uh, you
know my platoon sergeant was about to just thump him over the
head. I mean you know when you shoot at somebody it's,
it's not very well greeted. You know and, um, he, uh,
01:03:00finds out that the only reason they shot is because, uh, you
know they, they thought we were bad guys. And it's like,
uh--
TYLER: --no other proof.
MCKENZIE: No rhyme or reason. No rhyme or reason.
And they just did it to do it. And acourse at
this time, um, in early 2005, uh, maybe midway through, they were
just starting training for the Iraqi Army and the police and, um,
so you know they really hadn't had any training. You know
I'm, I'm almost contemplating why in the hell are you even out
here you know if you have no training.
TYLER: Right.
MCKENZIE: But, uh, you know they, they had no structure.
So, uh, they shot at what they thought could be entertaining I
guess. I don't know. Um, but yeah that was, that
was an interesting night. And I remember, um, we, uh, collapsed
our 360 and went on back to the base. We were
probably like thirty minutes away. And, uh, I remember walking into
01:04:00my, uh, CHU, which is our little hut of a house.
And, um, I look at my roommate and I was like, "Man,
we, we just got shot at." He's like, "All right.
Everybody all right?" "Yeah." He's like, "All right. Well
I got to go on, uh, tower guard here in an hour
so I'm going to go back to sleep now." That was
it. I mean no one else talked about it. It
was neither here nor there. Everybody went about their business.
And, um, you know at that time, it--you just don't talk about
it. It's like it was what it was and we'll go
on. So.
TYLER: So as far as you're, you're trained and you know
you're retrained in infantry tactics and everything, which--was that a pretty, pretty
good description of what you, what you did in your actual, uh,
day-to-day duties during the war?
MCKENZIE: Um, we would do, um, patrols through the city.
Um, I mean i--if you think of it, I mean we would
01:05:00move in a wedge column. We would move, uh, in a
file column through certain areas of the city. But at the
simplicity of it, I mean it was mostly, uh, we were in
humvees. Um, I mean that's--we were so far. I mean
we could oversee the cities, but we weren't close enough that you
really wanted to run into the city, you know, walk or whatnot.
And, um, I mean you usually moved by your vehicle.
So, um, I mean anywhere you would go, if it was the
Iraqi police station, Iraqi Army compound, um, to, uh, the local hospital.
Um, we built a hospital for them. And, um, the
Iraqi Army took over it. Uh, only for the simple fact
that there was already a, uh, hospital in town that wasn't ready
to move yet. For some reason. I, I do not
know. And, uh, I mean every time we'd go somewhere it
01:06:00was always set up 360 with--by vehicles. So, um, and you
know if you think of the tactics you know things were used,
um, in a manner of being mounted in the vehicle, as opposed
to being dismounted and, um, doing these different maneuvers. So, um,
I mean it was--the biggest thing is that it really wasn't a,
uh, urban environment that most people would think about, of being in
the city, walking around, like, uh, some do in Baghdad or Balad.
Where the cities are so close that you could just walk
out the gate and there you are. Um, so I, I
appreciated it a lot more. Kept me from having to walk
for miles. So, but yeah.
TYLER: Would you say you noticed most of--much of a difference
in, uh, the people or the town itself from the beginning to
01:07:00the end of your deployment?
MCKENZIE: That's, that's the thing. Um, you get there, and
you're, you're almost expecting these ideas that the media portrays. Or,
um, you know what you hear your, uh, uncle talk about, or
family discusses over politics, and how the war is going. And,
uh, the people don't like us. And you know you get
there, and a lot of them do appreciate you being there.
You know not all of them are out to get you.
Um, at the same time I mean you know the terrorists.
Whomever. You know they, they blend in. I mean you,
you can't tell Adam from Eve or whomever. Mohammed to Al
Saddam. I mean, um--and you know you just kind of take
it with a grain of salt. You know you just, see
01:08:00them for who they are. And you know one quick move
and we'll, we'll see where the game leads us. But you
know you just kinda play your cards as much as possible.
And, um--but overall I mean I remember being there, uh, in the
first elections. January of, uh, 2005. And, uh, I remember
pulling security for days. Like we'd pull it on the local
city council, um, local schools, um, and it never failed. I
mean thankfully the first elections went off as smooth as possible.
Um, I remember that day, uh, uh, we actually, uh, caught three,
uh, young men that, uh, they were making a bomb. I
mean a handmade bomb. I mean it was like a--you would
almost think of, uh, cartoons. Like a little round ball with
01:09:00a wick that was probably that long. And, um, we bust
them. Uh, my unit--(laughs)--well, the dismount group I was with, um--we
were in an overwatch position. And, uh, we're hidden kind of
behind this berm, the Bradleys were overlooking. It was a Bradley,
uh, gunner that was able to identify that these guys were doing
something specis--suspicious on the back of these--this little village. And, um,
so send out the dismounts. And I'm kind of trailing as
a rear dismount. And, um, they get so far ahead that
I was like well I'll just kind of--me and one other guy,
we flanked in behind and kinda wedged them in, because when they
saw us they tried to disperse out into the village. And,
uh, the rest of my guys had already finally made it around
to--we cornered them in. And, um, got the bomb and everything.
And, um, we were QRF that day, Quick Reaction Force, and
01:10:00acourse you know as soon as we call up that we caught
someone with a bomb. You know here comes the colonel, here
comes sergeant major. You know we got to be in this.
And, uh, um, it seemed like a whole herd of people
came for this little bomb. And, uh, I remember finding out
that, uh--later on--a couple weeks later--that, uh, they let all three of
them go, because they said they were going fishing with it.
I mean it's like I, I've never heard of people going fishing
with a bomb. (Tyler laughs) But you know I, I guess
there's a first time for everything. I'm--so.
TYLER: Yeah. Not entirely implausible I guess.
MCKENZIE: Yeah. So.
TYLER: Okay. Uh, any overall opinions or thoughts on, on
your events or experiences on your first tour?
MCKENZIE: (pause) (laughs) You know my first tour, um,
was eventful in itself. Um, you know, um, I remember one
01:11:00night we went to, uh, just go to, uh, checkpoints. Um,
pretty much every, um, bend in the road, um, pretty much a
turn in the road, uh, there was always a Iraqi Army checkpoint.
And, um, so that night it was my, uh, squad's, uh,
rotation to actually go out on these patrols. And, uh, we're
at this one point and, um, course all the IAs are asleep
except for one guy. You know we go in. We
wake them up. None of them appreciate it. It's like
eleven o'clock at night. I guess you know they're, they're ready
for bed. Just as much as I was. And, um,
we get a call across the radio saying that, uh, there's, uh,
Iraqi Police, uh, fighting a guy that is drunk in Sadiyah.
01:12:00And we're, we're probably five miles up the road. It's like
here we go. We, we're gonna see some, uh, cops.
You know maybe we should film this. No one filmed it
unfortunately. But, uh, we get off down there. And, um,
we get there. And come to find out it was actually
an IP--Iraqi police officer that was drunk. And he was looking
for some guy to kill him, uh, because of some disturbance they
had had amongst each other. And, um, so he's walking around
with his AK-47 just kind of wollering around. Uh, and I
remember the local IPs, um, that were there that had called us.
We were just there to overwatch. We weren't there to
partake in it, nothing. This, this is their, this is their,
uh, part to step in and kind of start taking that leadership
role of, uh, providing security within the community. And, um, acourse
01:13:00all of a sudden it was like six of them go running
up to him. And they just start swinging. No one
tried to knock him to the ground. Uh, no one tried
to take his weapon from him. Um, and finally, I, you
know I, I don't know what it was. Something in my
brain said you know enough is enough. And I go running
up. And, uh, I was a SAW [editor's note: squad automatic
weapon] gunner, a 249 gunner. And acourse my weapon is probably
like that long. It's got a huge drum on the bottom
of it with 200 rounds. And I, I hit like three
of them. And one of them just before I got to
him had knocked his weapon out of his hand. And, uh,
I grabbed this guy. And we kind of spin like two
or three times. And, uh, flop right into the side of
the road. And, uh, I'm on top of him. He's
lying on his stomach. And, uh, then, uh, our interpreter came
01:14:00and jumped in with me and helped pin him down. And
someone keeps yelling you know. He, he's got a pistol, he's
got a pistol. And his hands are tucked under him the
whole time. And, um, I mean I'm sitting there trying to
do certain pressure points. Trying to get him to relax his
arms. Um, trying to get up and under his shoulder blades.
You know something that'll just make his muscles tense up to
just draw his hands out somewhat where we can control them better.
And, uh, you know I mean the interpreter finally told him.
It's like you know, release your hands, or you know more
is to come. You know and, uh, finally, uh, he, he
was just gone. Uh, the guy never listened. We finally
got his hands and, uh, detained him. And, um, I mean
there wa--there was--come to find out there was no real strong rhyme
or reason why he wanted to kill the guy, other than the
fact that he just li--disliked him. And it's like well.
You'd probably fit in America somewhere. You know we, we got
01:15:00plenty of them people. And, uh, I remember the rest of
that night I was just--I was pissed that you know, um, after
all this training we had given the IPs, um, at this point.
I mean they had, maybe several months of training. Um,
and all they could do was just run up and they just
started swinging. I remember seeing some of them kicking. An
it's like you know I, I, I remember being there during some
of the training, guys. You know. Knock him down.
Put him on the ground. Detain him. And no, couldn't
do it. And, uh, what made matters worse is, uh, the
sewage that runs along the road you know. We, we call
it shit creek. You know. And, um--(laughs)--you know it's all
the sewage coming out of the houses, whatnot. And acourse I'm
like knee-deep in it, on both legs. And just the stank
just made my attitude even worse to the whole idea. And,
01:16:00um, I, I remember that night being, uh, pretty specific. Just,
uh, how things were going. It seemed like you would make
progress and then there was always a scenario that would just change
your whole perspective of how things were going. And, um, so
but, uh, yeah oth--I mean other events. I mean I remember,
uh, uh, talking with kids in the community. You know you
try and use them as information. Be like you know, you,
you seen any Ali Babas, you know bad guys. Uh, and
of course you get the average answer. No. No mister.
No mister. And, um, I remember one kid specifically.
And, uh, it was the night before elections, um, in January.
And, uh, I was talking to this kid. I mean he,
he spoke somewhat of English. And, um, I, I just asked
01:17:00him a few questions you know. You live nearby. You
know. You got big family. Just, just basic questions.
Just to kind of feel him out. And, um, he did
the same. Asked questions about me. My family. And,
um, you know I was like well hopefully I'll see you around.
You know I'm, I'm here for a little while. And,
uh, he went on home. And acourse, um, you know how
I told you about the three guys that we detained. The
main guy out of that that had the bomb was his older
brother. And, um, you know at--you know I'm, I'm kind of
glad that happened early in the deployment. Because at that point
you know I was--I was still in somewhat of a, a friendly
mode. You know I, I wanted to help you. You
know how can I help. You know I want to better
this country. And, uh, you know it's--once that happened it was
almost like I shunned them all away. It's like all right.
01:18:00You know enough with this. You know no more nice
guy. You know I'm here to do a job, that's it.
And, uh, um, I know it was probably, uh, two--three months
later that, um, a, uh, vehicle-borne, uh, improvised explosive, uh, vehicle, uh,
pretty much car bomb, um, came down the road, and, uh, hit
another car, and, um, killed, uh, these two little girls and this
father in another car. And you know kind of by the
intel reports that it wasn't intended to hit this guy and the
little girls. But that's pretty much the way it boiled down
to. And I mean you know we, uh, showed up.
And you know you see limbs here and there. And, uh,
it kinda draws you back for a second. And you know
you're standing there. And at, at that point everything just--you become
01:19:00coldhearted. It's like well wasn't me. You know. I'm
here. You know. So be it. You know.
Let's clean this up. I'm ready to go back to my
CHU. Watch a movie. Eat a falafel. You know.
And, uh, call it a day. And, um, you know
that's--that was the hardest thing. Is even coming out of that.
Because, uh, even when I got home from that first deployment
I mean, you know someone died. You know, uh, someone was
murdered, someone was raped. And you know I was still in
that mindset of wasn't me. You know. So.
TYLER: All right. Let's, uh, let's take a break real
quick. Five.
[Pause in recording.]
UNIDENTIFIED: I'm, uh, I'm rolling.
TYLER: All right. So let's talk about, uh, the end
of your deployment, coming back home. Uh, did you noti--notice anything
different about yourself or, uh, people you were close to before you
left? Did they notice anything that they mentioned to you?
01:20:00
MCKENZIE: Um, pretty much, um, the biggest thing that changed is
that I was--you know before I joined the military and everything I
was very, uh, big in participating in church activities. Um, you
know I'd go on church trips, this, that, the other. Um,
I was very, uh, bighearted in participating with youth group. Things
like that. And, um, I got home, and I just--it wasn't
like I was against church or anything. I just--it was hard
to come out of that mode of being coldhearted and then come
to a, a warming environment. Um, I, I struggled with it
for a, for a little while. Um, you know it's kind
of like I said, uh. You know I'd hear things happen
to people. You know car accidents. People dying, uh, in
01:21:00America and neighbors and just like, glad it wasn't me. I'm,
I'm worrying about myself you know. Deal with your own business.
And, um, you know my mom really brought it up to
me. And, um, you know it was--it, it took a lot
of time. I mean and I don't mean just a few
weeks. I mean it was several months to kind of come
out of that atmosphere of, you know going from every day you
know, your neck is always stuck out on a line. And
then to come home, and then, uh, you're almost expected to just
be okay you know that no one's out to get you.
And, um, you know I, I had the big problem of, uh--I
always kept my head on swivel because, um, I was usually the
gunner on the humvees, things like that in country. And I
01:22:00wa--I was always looking. And, um, I came home and ended
up in like two accidents because I wasn't paying attention to what
was ahead of me because I was always used to looking off
to the left side or the right side of the vehicle.
And, uh, course I get in two fender bender accidents. First
one, um, uh, I just bumped a lady. And, uh, took
off the plastic underneath my truck. And the second one, uh,
I was looking down, and I look up, and I see, uh,
out of the corner of my eye cars or movement. And,
um, course I wasn't in a turn lane. And you know
here I go. I'm ready to go. And bump right
into this guy and just demolish my front bumper. And, um,
you know I, it was hard to get my mindset to focus
what was in front of me on the road, because I mean
to this day I still have a hard time. Um, you
01:23:00know looking off to the sides. Paying attention. You know.
Pass a farm. You know. Up, there's cows.
All right. There they are. You know. And, um,
uh, you know at the same time, you know to this day
you know my, uh, parents and my wife, uh, they kind of
bring up the fact that I stare at people too much.
And, uh, I remember one incident in country where, uh, this, uh,
IP, um, that was--I'd never met him before. But my platoon
sergeant knew him and squad leader had met him. And, um,
he's like, uh, "McKenzie, search him." I was like, "Well, okay."
And plain as day. Had a pistol right on his
back side, and never knew it. And, uh, you know and
still to this day I have the problem of staring at people.
And just looking them up and down. You know.
And you know I've, I've been judged. I've been called out
01:24:00on it a few times. You know. Some big guys
kind of look at me. It's like I'm, I'm not trying
to size you up. You know. I'm just trying to
make sure you don't have anything on you that can bring harm
to me or anything like that. And, um, you know I'm,
I'm all about watching people's, uh, body movements. Their language.
And how they talk with their eyes. I mean that's, that's
always just been, um, something that I've always just kind of picked
up on. You know you watch people's movements. How they're
going to react to things. And, um, just try an always
stay a step ahead of them. That way I'm not always
the guy on the back end catching the brute of something actually
happening. So, but.
TYLER: So it's been something that it's been hard for you
to turn off.
MCKENZIE: Uh-hm.
TYLER: Yeah. What, uh, what was your overall attitude towards
Iraq? Coming back to America.
MCKENZIE: Um, coming back, um, and looking back at Iraq, I,
I think of a lot of the good that we did.
01:25:00Um, you know we helped build a hospital. You know we
helped train Iraqi Army, Iraqi Police. Um, you know we put
in wells. We, uh, helped build, uh--restructure a mosque. Um,
you know there was a lot of, uh, humanitarian missions. I
remember going out and, uh, uh, you know we gave bikes away.
You know, uh, my mom tried to lead a, uh, program
called, uh, Operation Hands and Feet. And she went out into
the community in, uh, Nashville, whatnot, and had people donate shoes.
And, um, sent them over for us to pass out to the
community. And, uh, kids' shoes, you know, teens. Um, you
know you'd see Michael Jordan shoes running around the neighborhood, which was
kind of humorous. Um, you know every now and then you'd
01:26:00say, "There goes Mike." And, uh, uh, so you know those
little things that, uh, we did kinda--you don't take light of it,
because without that, you would almost look at your deployment as a
waste of time, it was pointless. Why, why'd you even bother?
All you did was go over there and sling bullets and
didn't accomplish anything, an which in light, in turn of things, I
mean, uh, you know the violence was brought down by a, a
huge percentage number. Um, you know by us conducting patrols on
a persistent basis. You know the, the violence was brought down.
And, um, you know by our efforts you know I, I
believe the community was brought to a better point. So, um.
TYLER: So you maintained hope for a, a brighter future.
01:27:00
MCKENZIE: Exactly. Exactly.
TYLER: Making it better instead of worse.
MCKENZIE: Yeah.
TYLER: Okay. So, uh, moving on. You start settling
back into your everyday life. Uh, how long before your unit
is called back up again?
MCKENZIE: Um, we got home, uh, I think we fully got
home and, uh, discharged in December of '05. And, um, I--rumor
had started already running by, uh, 2000--late 2006--2007 there's going to be
another deployment. And, um, course I took off for college.
Um, and, uh, it's like well just let me know whenever.
I'm, I'm game for another one. And, uh, you know word
kind of kept saying something's happening. Uh, a few people would
hint to me you know--you know word is coming that we're--we may
01:28:00go to Afghanistan. And, uh, well I kind of got tired
of waiting. And, uh, in, uh--I guess it was early 2008,
uh, I put my name in to, uh, be deployed, to volunteer
to go to Afghanistan. Um, things were starting to pick up
there. And I wanted to be a part of it.
And, uh, so in that meantime, uh, about a month later or
two, um, I met, uh, my wife at a wedding. And,
uh, met there. And got a call later. Uh, probably
maybe two months after I'd already moved to, uh, Lexington, Kentucky.
Saying, "Hey you know. Slot is available. You want to
go?" And I'm sitting here thinking, like you know if you
were just two months ahead of the game I would say yes.
01:29:00And, uh, I held out. And, uh, passed up the
opportunity. And best thing I ever did. Uh, met my
wife, and, um, by, uh, I want to say it was Mother's
Day. Uh, it was just before, uh, that May, uh, of
'08. I had already heard my unit was gonna be deployed.
And, um, so I figured I could have caught this deployment
to Afghanistan, come home, and then as my unit is kind of
training up I can just jump right in with them and go
right back. And, uh, that's what I was kind of hoping
for, uh, until I met my wife. And then, um, my
unit, they kinda delayed us on our leaving. So, uh,
me and my wife, we got engaged, a year later after meeting.
01:30:00Um, got married in September of 2009. And, uh, by
December of 2009 I was out the door on my second deployment,
getting ready for Iraq. Um, I went, uh, advance party, uh,
in country, uh, got to Kuwait, setting up, um, different things for
when the units came in this time. Um, played a lot
more of a leadership role the second round than I did the
first time. And, um--which was all right with me, made my
job a lot easier. As opposed to the first time, stuck
cleaning up everybody's mess. This time I kinda got to delegate
that whole issue. But, uh--
TYLER: --what were the--what were the major differences you noticed from
the first time?
MCKENZIE: Uh, the differences really came down to the job we
did. Uh, the second deployment that I went on, uh, we
01:31:00wer--we pretty much were, uh, the majority of just providing supplies in
and out of our base. Um the base was, uh, Q-West,
which was probably an hour south of Mosul. Uh, we would
go to Mosul, uh, we'd go to, uh, Speicher. Um, and
in Mosul was, uh, Diamondback. Um, there's another one. There
was two of them together. Diamondback was the main one with
the airfield. And, uh, we'd go there, take supplies, pick up
supplies. Um, and then it, it came down to a point
through the whole deployment. You know nothing really came of it,
um, uh, that anything is really worth talking about. I mean
it just came down to a point of we got there and
we were with, uh, Fifteenth, uh, Sustainment Battalion. And we--they were
01:32:00there up to a certain point. I want to say it
was probably like the last two weeks. Um, it was my
whole unit, and maybe be, um, maybe a platoon size of Fifteenth
Sustainment that were there with us till the end. Um, for
this base that was housing thousands of soldiers at one time.
That probably, um, I want to say was eighteen, nineteen miles, um,
round. I mean just to go around this thing was ridiculous.
Um, and really the--to compare them, they're, they're--you can't compare.
Um, the first one, it, it seemed like you really made a
difference. The second time was all right, my difference is I'm
01:33:00gonna get all my stuff of the government, and I'm, I'm, I'm
getting out. I'm, I'm ready to go.
TYLER: You guys ran the full spectrum there. You're --
MCKENZIE: --exactly--
TYLER: --combat arms National Guard unit. You had been trained
in infantry tactics and utilized them in the first deployment. Now
you're a sustainment transportation supply.
MCKENZIE: Exactly.
TYLER: So, um. Okay. Um, so did you have
an idea that was coming beforehand? I mean, uh--
MCKENZIE: Uh, rumor kind of stirred, but no one was really
expecting it. And, uh, it wasn't until, um, we started training
for the deployment that it really kinda came out that you know,
um, we're going to be, uh, running supply routes in and out
of Q-West, uh, to Speicher and, um, Mosul. Uh, you know
the biggest thing about it, uh, is the missions that we had
01:34:00to sustain while we were there. Uh, once, uh, they closed
the chow hall I mean that was probably maybe a month before,
um, we even left. Um, so it came down to, um,
T-rations, which is just a pan of food and you just heat
it up and I mean, I probably wouldn't've even fed it to
a pig. You know it was that horrible. Uh, but
at the same time it came down to a point. Uh,
our first sergeant was sick of the food. Uh, we started
bringing in, uh, charcoal. We started, um, getting meat, uh, started
cooking steaks, uh, rib eyes, uh, hamburgers, chicken, you know. We,
we set ourselves up good in the end. Um, and you
know the whole time what made it worse is you know we
had to start cooking for ourselves. We started having to, uh,
01:35:00conduct security, uh, internally and externally because, uh, we had, um, the
Iraqi Air Force that was on base with us. And there
was nobody pulling security on them. It was pretty much a,
a trust. You stay in your area and you go between
your little hut and to the airfield, that's it, that's all you
get, and, um, so conducting patrols inside, outside. Um, on top
of that pulling tower guard. Uh, conducting, um, supply routes, still.
And, um, you know it, it turned into last couple weeks
of just mind-draining, because you're--for a few days you'll do one task,
you'll turn around, do a supply route, uh, next day once you
get back from, uh, a supply mission, um, you'll be doing, um,
01:36:00you know, uh, QRF. Um, which luckily we never had to
respond to anything, um.
TYLER: You were spread pretty thin at that point.
MCKENZIE: Yeah at, at that point, you know it was--it was
scarce. I mean you know everybody had to participate. Maintenance
was starting to be drawn out and put on tower guard.
Um, you know it--you know we started having to, uh--we pulled--everybody was
kind of scattered amongst the base at one point in an area.
And then they consolidated everybody into one confinement area of where
everybody was staying. Um, you know we had the chow hall
right next to it. Uh, and it, it broke down to
the point that we even started pulling security on top of internal
security and external. We had to pull it even within our
01:37:00own little confine of where all the CHUs were staying. Because,
um, the Iraqi Air Force guys and some of the Iraqi Army
guys were kinda mingling amongst the old CHUs that we were staying
in. And getting out what they could. You know if
someone left food behind or a TV, things like that. And,
uh, so we really had to pick up even higher security than
what we even wanted to, but you know it's, it's one of
those things. You trust them, you know at, at a certain
length. You know, I want you this far but I want
you close enough to where if I need to grab you, you
know still had that, uh, ability. So.
TYLER: What do you remember most of that tour?
MCKENZIE: Uh, you know there was one event. Um, I
remember we, uh, were doing a supply route towards Mosul. And,
01:38:00uh, it was, it was what we called a turn and burn.
Um, we, we had two types we, uh, did for, um,
supply routes. We either did a turn and burn, which is
to go up there, drop off whatever supplies, and come back, in
which we knew we weren't picking anything up. Or we called
it a pajama, uh, pajama party, in which we knew we were
going to stay the night and, uh, pick up supplies to take
back. And, um, so usually the pajama parties were always the
best because the bases that we would go to, um, always had
you know a better PX because our base was closing and collapsing
down, that you know things were starting to get a little scarce.
I remember, uh, food supply. I mean for breakfast I
would have blueberry Pop-Tarts with water. Lunch was ramen noodles with
water. And then, uh, for supper I would probably have more
01:39:00ramen noodles with Pop-Tarts as dessert you know, um, there for a
little while. And, uh, you know to go on a trip
to another base was huge. It was I mean the morale
boost that it provided just to get away, even if it was
just a turn and burn. I mean just to get off
the base, get in the truck, go somewhere and then come back
and redo, uh, all the requirements again. Um, but there was
one trip, uh, event, uh, to Mosul that we went up there.
And it was a turn and burn. And, um, we
had--we were the first unit to come through that route. And,
uh, all our missions, um, at that time were being conducted at
night. And, um, so we come through. We're the first
ones through the route. We're pretty much clearing it as we
go. And, uh, we get there. And supposedly, uh, once
01:40:00we get to Mosul we're, we're stirring up, getting ready to turn
around and come back an hour later. And, uh, an IED
had gone off on the route that we had just come through.
And, um, somehow it had faulted and hit, uh, a local
civilian car. Uh, and you know to sit here and say
you know, that, that probably should have been my vehicle you know,
how did it miss me, and instead hit them, and it kinda
brought back that cold heart mentality. It's like well better you
than me. Um, you know I, I, I got a wife
to get home to, an my parents and my sisters. And,
uh, you know that, that kind of just brought all the old
memories really back into gear. Um, into, uh, that whole mentality.
So.
TYLER: Are you proud of your service overall?
01:41:00
MCKENZIE: Um, you know when I look back, um, I think
of my grandfather who served in World War II. Um, have
an uncle that went to Vietnam. My grandfather--my other grandfather, uh,
was, uh, in the Navy, served at sea. And you know,
I, honestly I look back and think that I skimmed by.
I was lucky. You know how do you make it through
two deployments and really never get shot at? Um, I mean
never was I in a vehicle that was hit by an indirect
explosive device. Um, and it's, it's almost hard to say that
I compare with those that have paid the ultimate sacrifice. You
01:42:00know how can I say that my service, uh, was great when
others you know paid that sacrifice and I got off on a
whim? And, uh--but if I--when I truly think about it, you
know I'm, I'm proud that I can say I served. You
know I, I look at a lot of people that are my
age, and you know, they went barhopping. You know they were
able to catch the Super Bowl Sunday you know, the big game.
Um, they were able to watch March Madness. You know
at a bar with friends. Um, you know I, I can
remember Christmas you know not being able to be at home with
my family. Um, you know, um, my first year of marriage
was being deployed. Being away from my wife. And, uh,
you know even though I missed out on those things I'm, I'm
01:43:00thankful to be able to have served. Be able to, um,
provide things for a country that you know was being turned upside
down by someone that only looked out for himself, who, um, destroyed
the Kurdish people in the north, that you know just wiped out
a mass of people just because they didn't agree with his ideology.
And, uh, you know I, I have to say that I
truly am proud of the service I provided. Um, and that
I was able to walk away with somewhat of a story.
But you know I--to compare myself with others, uh, I'd say I'm
just your average Joe that put on the helmet, picked up a
weapon, and just provided security. So.
TYLER: All right. When you got home, uh--you know you
already started college before you left, right?
01:44:00
MCKENZIE: Yeah, started for a little while.
TYLER: So what was the plan? Were you ready to
come back and finish your undergraduate degree?
MCKENZIE: Well, my, uh, first run through with college was, uh,
a little rough. Uh, I came home from my first deployment
and I was--I had just turned--I had turned twenty-one in country.
And, uh, so I, I was ready to get it out of
my system. It's like all right. You know it's my
turn to be young. Um, luckily I was able to go
to the bars. Um, you know I could come and go
as I pleased. I didn't have the military saying where are
you going, what are you doing. And, uh, so I, I
kind of cut loose. I was stupid for a little while.
And, um, finally, uh, my last semester in college I--you know
I was at a point where I was tired of you know
all the bars and things like that. And, uh, really broke
down, cranked into school, and, uh, met my soon-to-be wife at the
01:45:00time. And, um, you know kind of took a break.
Um, tried to come to Kentucky and continue education, which school was
outrageous to, um, be considered out of state. And so I
waited. Uh, I was going to wait a year, and then,
uh, the deployment came up. And so I just waited.
And now, um, that I'm attending the University of Kentucky, I'm trying
to work on my business management degree. Um, so you know
this go-around is a lot different from what it was the first
time. You know, um, I have my wife on my heels
you know telling me I got to get done. She's ready
for a house. Um, and so, you know now that I
come home, I, I think about all the hard work I put
01:46:00into the deployments, training and everything. And you know a lot
of it helps me be a better student when I'm in class.
Um, it's helped me kinda learn to, um, control myself, uh,
pace myself. Um, and just kinda take a step back and
not be in a rush. Um, have, uh, more patience I
guess, uh, to, uh, really focus on what I need to and,
uh, get done with school. So.
TYLER: Well, what brought you to the University of Kentucky?
MCKENZIE: I have been raised on the blue and white my
whole life. You know, uh, I was born during, uh, the
1984, uh, Kentucky versus, uh, Auburn game. Rex Chapman versus, uh,
Charles Barkley. You know, uh, Kentucky won that game. And
01:47:00I was born during it. So I, I like to think
that I was the blessing that provided Kentucky with that win that
day. Um, but, uh, you know I, I've always been raised,
uh, as a Kentucky fan. Uh, wouldn't have it any other
way. Lived in Tennessee, took a lot of harassment for it.
Um, always told them they look like a bunch of criminals.
And, uh, you know, when I came to Kentucky, um, it's--it
pretty much was, um, a glove that fit. You know it,
it was the right thing. Um, everything, um, when I went
to another university, it was so much hassle. And when I
tried to come to Kentucky everything just kind of slid into place.
I didn't struggle with things. Um, maybe a, a bump
or two but nothing that you know would give me concern to
say you know this, this isn't the right step.
01:48:00
TYLER: What, uh--as, as far as being a veteran, a nontraditional
student, what kind of problems did that cause for you coming back
to school?
MCKENZIE: (pause) You know, uh, I remember one instance.
Uh, I was pulled for, uh, hurricane relief duty. And, uh,
went to, uh, LSU's campus. And, uh, we were standing out
front. Uh, the federal government had seized the gymnasium as, uh,
federal aid relief. And there was a girl that came by.
And, um, you know to this day it sticks with me,
is you know how, how can you stand there with your weapons.
Uh, you know. And the, the biggest thing is it's
like you know, I, I don't stand here against you. I'm,
I'm not against you. I'm, I'm trying to help the better
01:49:00of the people. I'm, I'm not providing any harm to no
one. You know, um, and acourse we got there late, uh,
in the hurricane relief. We were replacing another unit. And,
uh, you know I, I was just kind of thrown back by
this. And, uh, when I came to UK, um, you know
there was--it seemed like there was a few people out there that
just kinda did the same thing. It's like how, how could
you, uh, go and, uh, kill all these, uh, women and children
in Iraq. You know all you did was cause harm to
them. You know they'd have probably been better off without you.
Um, and, the hardest thing about that is, is trying to
take that with a grain of salt. Um, my first instinct
is to rare back and just give them a good one.
01:50:00Um, acourse you know, anywhere you go, um, you're always going to
have someone that disagrees with your ideas. You know whether it
be, um, which type milk is best or you know which road
is best to take. And, uh, you know I chose the
military. You know, um, it, it's made me a better man,
a better soldier, a better husband, uh, a better son. Um,
and it's, it's almost appalling to think that someone would look at
you as if you're a criminal. And, uh, you know I,
I brought no harm to no one. You know, only time
I can remember ever firing one shot is at a firing range
while I was in country. Uh, and the problem is, is
no one knows your story. No one knows where your road
01:51:00has taken you. You know who, who's to say that someone
didn't hit someone on a crosswalk and just take off? How
do I know you weren't someone like that? And, um, you
know it's, it's hard not to--like you want to argue with them.
And fight their ideas of who you are. And, uh,
try and explain to them, you know I've done good in the
world. You know I've, I've been a corrections officer. Um,
you know I've worked for, um, uh, family readiness programs. I've,
uh, been a team leader for, uh, military funeral honors. I've,
I've buried a best friend that you know gave the ultimate sacrifice
that never saw his son. Um, and you know, to be
judged is the hardest thing out of all of it. Um,
01:52:00you know it's, it's almost hard to take at times. So.
TYLER: Did you find others out there that were going through
the same thing?
MCKENZIE: Uh, you know when I talk to older crowds, um,
probably people that would be my father's age that deployed to Iraq,
things like that, um, you know I--they don't bring up, uh, stories
of people, um, you know kind of persecuting them and saying you
know they did wrong by serving their country. They get, uh,
thanked for their service. Um, but they don't believe in the
war. And, um, the problem with, uh--you know I've found is
usually with more of the younger crowds. Um, you know they
01:53:00don't have the full knowledge. They just see what's on TV.
They see that you know, um, a group of soldiers raped
some woman in Iraq and now everybody gets the, the label of
you know being a rapist. Every soldier is a rapist.
Uh, you know all you're doing is just murdering people. Um,
but the biggest way that I look at it is, is that
I would much rather be there in that country than to be
standing in my backyard or your backyard and trying to fight a
war. Um, you know I'd, I'd much rather go to someone
else's backyard and fight than my own. Um, and I think
it's hard for people to grasp that knowledge that you know better
theirs than ours. So.
TYLER: Do you feel that the, the government and the University
01:54:00of Kentucky, have they helped make your transition and your education better?
These programs that have rolled out through the VA. Are
they, are they helping veterans?
MCKENZIE: You know the first time I started using the GI
Bill it was pretty bland. Um, you know I got money
to pretty much live on. And, um, I got tuition assistance
also. And there wasn't much help from the first university I
went to. And, uh, you know it was kind of, uh,
a constant battle of trying to get school paid for, us taking
out loans, uh, tuition assistance was barely covering. Uh, and it
seemed like they came out with the new, uh, Post-9/11 GI Bill
and everything was just a hundred times smoother. Um, once I
transferred over from the normal Montgomery GI Bill to the Post-9/11, um,
01:55:00you know everything was a lot easier. My housing was being
paid for. My school was being paid for. My books
were paying for. All I have to do is work a
side job just to provide food. And that's it. Um,
you know I, I didn't have to burden myself with having to
work a lot harder of a job for more money and then
try and compete with trying to complete school. This way I'm,
I'm able to stay a lot more focused. And, um, you
know it's, it's been beneficial. You know the government has--I believe
has stepped up tremendously in supporting the troops. And helping them,
uh, provide themselves with a better education. Um, I mean each
soldier that completes basic has already proven that you know, they're able
to adapt to different scenarios. They can overcome obstacles. Um,
01:56:00and that they can learn. I mean you know they obviously
made it through high school. They just completed a strenuous training.
Uh, you know at this point you know the sky is
the limit. You know and the government finally gives you, um,
this bill that's laid before you. It's like do as you
please. You know, get an education. You know go to
bigger heights than you know your small hometown. You know do
something big. And, um, you know I believe that the University
of Kentucky is picking up with that idea, that you know, um,
troops are looking for a university that supports them. And, um,
that the soldiers have something to offer, not just, um, the school
itself but the student body as a whole. You know we,
we can help programs build. You know we, we know how
01:57:00things should be structured. You know that, that's what the military
preaches. You know there, there's a structure to everything. How
things should go in order. And, um, you know I, I
think between universities and the government things are kinda building a lot
stronger than what it was in the past.
TYLER: All right. Uh, do you have any, any final
thoughts? Anything on, uh--with regards to being a veteran? Uh,
anything on your service? Or anything else you want to--
MCKENZIE: --you know, um, out of everything, um, I remember the
hardest question, um, I was ever asked. And to this day
it was still the hardest question I ever was asked. Um,
it was before my first deployment and my father came to me.
My mom wasn't with him. And he, he asked me.
01:58:00He's like, "You know I want you to think about this.
You know I don't want an answer today. I don't
want it tomorrow." He's like, "Sit on it for a little
while and let me know." And his question was is, if
something happens to you where do you want to be buried.
And I was nineteen at the time. And, um, you know
I look back at that whole idea. And spread it across
everything I've done to this point from you know completing schools, trainings,
deployments. And, it, it, it takes me back to a sense
of how is it that anybody could ever ask their child you
know, where do you want to be buried if something does happen.
You know, uh, to this day, uh, I, I--ask me a
01:59:00million questions about math, which is my horrible subject. And I
just kinda come up with, uh, a guess. You know.
Uh, but that question to this day lingers as my hardest question,
um. Yeah.
TYLER: (pause) All right.
MCKENZIE: Yeah.
TYLER: Philip, thank you very much for your service. Thank
you for your time today. And sharing your insights and your
experiences.
MCKENZIE: My pleasure.
TYLER: All right.
[End of interview.]
