Interview with John Y. Brown, Jr., February 27, 2013

Partial Transcript: The following is an unrehearsed interview with former Kentucky governor John Y. Brown, Jr. for the University of Kentucky Library's Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History.

Segment Synopsis: John Y. Brown, Jr. is introduced. He talks about growing up as the only boy in a house full of sisters. He talks about his respect for women, especially in the field of business, and what influenced his thinking regarding gender equality. He talks about choosing a woman as his chief of staff when he became governor. He talks about the accomplishments of his wives Ellie and Phyllis.

Keywords: Business; Chief of staff; Eleanor Durall Brown; Equality; Experience; Family; Father; Feminism; Governors cabinet; Influence; June Taylor; Kentucky Colonels; Mother; Muhammad Ali Center; Opportunity; Phyllis George Brown; Racial discrimination; Respect; Siblings; Wives

Subjects: Childhood; Gender issues; Sex discrimination against women; Women in politics; Women's rights; Women--Employment.

Partial Transcript: You mentioned you were born at the end of 1933 during the height of the Great Depression.

Segment Synopsis: Brown talks about some of the events that occurred during his childhood and discusses their impact on his life, including the Great Depression, the attack on Pearl Harbor, and World War II, as well as his parents' political views. He discusses his experiences with education and how it can be improved. He discusses his views on organized labor.

Keywords: Budgets; Career preparation; College; Disciplinarians; Father; Fear; Frank Costello; Fred Vincent; Generations; Grades; John Sherman Cooper; John Y. Brown, Sr.; Kentuckians; Mother; Opportunities; Parents; Roosevelt Democrats; School; United Mine Workers of America; World War II

Subjects: Democratic Party (U.S.); Depressions--1929--Kentucky; Education; Labor unions; New Deal, 1933-1939; Pearl Harbor (Hawaii), Attack on, 1941; Politicians; Politics and government; Roosevelt, Franklin D. (Franklin Delano), 1882-1945; World War, 1939-1945

Partial Transcript: When you were attending UK were you active in any fraternities or on-campus organizations?

Segment Synopsis: Brown talks about his motivation to become involved in sales, and talks about learning from experience. He talks about how his law education assisted him in business, stating that a lawsuit was never brought against him due to his knowledge of contracts. He talks about his brief career in law.

Keywords: Attorney; Brown and Father; Challenges; Criminal law; Democratic Party telethons; Democrats; Father; Fraternities; Generations; Jobs; John Y. Brown, Sr.; Law degree; Learning; Motivation; Political views; Sales; Student organizations

Subjects: College graduates; College students--Attitudes.; College students--Employment.; Governors--Kentucky; Greek letter societies.; Law and legislation; Law--Study and teaching; Lawyers--Kentucky; Politicians--Kentucky; Politics and government; University of Kentucky. College of Law

Partial Transcript: You know, I think one of the big misconceptions, governor, about your political career is n--the notion that on March 27th, 1979 you suddenly decided to get involved in the political arena...

Segment Synopsis: Brown talks about his early involvement in politics by running his father's campaign for U.S. Senate and John F. Kennedy's presidential campaign in Kentucky. He talks about his decision to run for governor. He talks about how the events and atmosphere of the 1960s affected his life. He talks about his negotiation with the major TV networks to put on a telethon for the Democratic Party.

Keywords: Bob Strauss; Democratic Party telethons; Eleanor Durall Brown; Excitement; Father; John Y. Brown, Sr.; Kentucky Fried Chicken (KFC); Married; Political agendas; Political connections; Senate; Senators; Television networks

Subjects: Governors--Election; Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Political campaigns--Kentucky; Politicians--Kentucky

Partial Transcript: I did want to mention the fact that you had joined the Army Reserve in 1959 and served until 1965.

Segment Synopsis: Brown discusses his views on the Vietnam War, as well as the civil rights movement. He talks about appointing the first African American cabinet member during his term as governor. He talks about his relationship with Muhammad Ali and his role in the creation of the Muhammad Ali Center in Louisville, Kentucky.

Keywords: Army Reserve; John Y. Brown, Sr.; Kentucky Fried Chicken (KFC); Louisville (Ky.); Muhammad Ali Center; Press secretary; Scandals; William E. McAnulty, Jr.

Subjects: African Americans--Politics and government.; African Americans--Social conditions.; Civil rights movements--United States; Integration; Race relations--Kentucky; Vietnam War, 1961-1975

Partial Transcript: So at any point during the 1960s, as all this turmoil was going on, this ferment, did you have any desire for a political career for yourself?

Segment Synopsis: Brown talks about becoming involved in business in order to fund his future political career. He talks about his relationships with Kentucky politicians through his father as well as through his business career and his involvement in organizations like the Young Leadership Council of the Democratic National Committee and the telethons for the Democratic Party. He talks about his decision not to run for Senate. He tells a story about his wedding to Phyllis George, during which his father gave a speech about Brown, Jr. running for governor.

Keywords: Bob Strauss; Chairman of the National Democratic Party; Colonel Harland Sanders; Colonel Sanders; Democratic Party telethons; Earle Clements; Governor's Economic Development Commission; Governorship; Happy Chandler; Hubert Humphrey; John Y. Brown, Sr.; Julian Carroll; Kentucky Fried Chicken (KFC); Larry Townsend; Louie B. Nunn; Money; Motivation; Phyllis George Brown; Political career; Relationships; Running for office; Sales tax; Weddings; Wendell Ford; Young Leadership Council

Subjects: Carroll, Julian Morton, 1931-; Ford, Wendell H., 1924-; Nunn, Louie B., 1924-2004; Politicians; Politics and government

Partial Transcript: In any of these political endeavors we've talked about did your business acumen and experience come in handy?

Segment Synopsis: Brown talks about how his business experience helped him throughout his political career, especially in hiring people for his cabinet and other positions. He talks about how the events of the 1970s affected his career, specifically the scandal surrounding Richard Nixon. He talks about his reasons for running for governor, including the influence of Larry Townsend and a man named J. B. Marston. He discusses the claim that his run for governorship was the result of a mid-life crisis.

Keywords: Business experience; Cabinet members; Democratic Party telethons; Donations; Hiring; Inspiration; Israeli-Egyptian Peace Treaty; J. B. Marston; J. R. Miller; John Y. Brown, Sr.; Larry Townsend; Mid-life crisis; Phyllis George Brown; Political polls; Racehorses; Richard Nixon; Running for office; Vietnam War

Subjects: Boston Celtics (Basketball team); Governors--Election; Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Political campaigns--Kentucky

Partial Transcript: You know hindsight's always twenty-twenty as we know but back then, as you looked at the national political scene could you see that the country was turning away from the politics of the left-wing of the Democratic Party?

Segment Synopsis: Brown discusses the many scandals occurring in politics around the time of his gubernatorial campaign, as well as the national sentiment against the Democratic Party at the time. He talks about how he was free of outside political influence and did not owe anyone political favors. He discusses his opponents in the election.

Keywords: Bill Clinton; Changes; Conservatism; Corruption; Democratic primaries; George Adkins; Harvey Sloane; Image; Independence; Julian Carroll; Martha Layne Collins; Opponents; Political candidates; Political system; Terry McBrayer; Thelma Stovall

Subjects: Collins, Martha Layne; Democratic Party (U.S.); Governors--Election; Political campaigns--Kentucky; Political corruption; Politicians; Politics and government

Partial Transcript: Um, you know your father had a reputation as being a political maverick when he was a candidate.

Segment Synopsis: Brown talks about his father's influence on his campaign for governor, and discusses his campaign strategy and use of the media. He talks about his relationship with Larry Townsend and Townsend's influence on his political career. He talks about his wife Phyllis' impact on his political career. He discusses the changing alliances and factions within the Democratic Party. He talks about his strategy of running government like a business, and talks about his reasons for not scheduling many speaking engagements during his term as governor.

Keywords: "Ground game"; Accomplishments; Alliances; Bob Squire; Contacts; Corporate managers; Democratic Party factions; Endorsements; Entrepreneurs; Government as business; Grassroots campaigning; Helicopters; Image; J. R. Miller; John Y. Brown, Sr.; Julian Carroll; Larry Townsend; Newspapers; Pamela Brown; Phyllis George Brown; Primary elections; Publicity; Schedules; Speaking engagements; Staff; Strategy; Support; Taxes; Telephone; Television; Volunteers; Wendell Ford

Subjects: Governors--Election; Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Political campaigns--Kentucky; Politicians--Kentucky

Partial Transcript: How would you characterize your personal relationships with your primary opponents?

Segment Synopsis: Brown talks about his distaste for corruption in politics. He tells the story of his debate with Louie Nunn before the primary election and his plan to rattle Nunn.

Keywords: Debates; Honesty; Issues; Louie B. Nunn; Political attacks; Political opponents; Secretary of finance; Terry McBrayer

Subjects: Governors--Election; Nunn, Louie B., 1924-2004; Political campaigns--Kentucky; Political corruption--Kentucky; Politicians--Kentucky; Politics and government

Partial Transcript: This is tape three of the John Y. Brown, Jr. interview on February 27, 2013.

Segment Synopsis: Brown talks about the tendency towards pessimism in politics and shares a speech he gave regarding remaining optimistic despite the numerous crises that plagued each decade since the 1920s in America.

Keywords: Crises; Decades; Generations; Negativity; Opportunities; Optimism

Subjects: Politics and government

Partial Transcript: Uh, I have a couple more questions about the primary and general election before we actually get you in the governor's chair.

Segment Synopsis: Brown talks about George Adkins' endorsement of him in the race for governor and how this influenced the United Mine Workers to endorse him as well. He talks about his position on collective bargaining for teachers. He talks about others' consideration of him for national political positions.

Keywords: Bob Strauss; Collective bargaining; Debates; Eastern Kentucky; Endorsements; George Adkins; John Y. Brown, Sr.; Labor movement; National politics; Political careers; Teachers; Ted Kennedy; Thelma Stovall; United Mine Workers of America

Subjects: Governors--Kentucky; Labor unions--Kentucky; Politicians--Kentucky; Politics and government

Partial Transcript: Were you surprised at how vulnerable you were as a candidate?

Segment Synopsis: Brown talks about coming under attack during his campaign for governor, especially from Louie Nunn. He talks more about the political climate surrounding his election, specifically in regard to his independence from political influence. He talks about how he convinced Bill Sturgill and W. T. Young to work in his administration.

Keywords: Accomplishments; Attacks; Bill Sturgill; Cabinet members; Changes; Election night; John Y. Brown, Sr.; Louie B. Nunn; Political climate; Staff; Vulnerable; W. T. Young; Winning

Subjects: Governors--Election; Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Political campaigns--Kentucky; Political corruption--Kentucky; Politicians--Kentucky

Partial Transcript: You know it was said that when you went into the governor's office with fewer political obligations than perhaps any governor in Kentucky's history...

Segment Synopsis: Brown discusses how he dealt with the threats made by the Louisville caucus during his first days as governor. He talks about the ways he helped develop the state by bringing UPS to the state as well as the construction of the AA Highway.

Keywords: AA Highway; Caucuses; Development; Kentucky; Legislature; Regions; United Parcel Service (UPS)

Subjects: Kentucky--Politics and government; Politicians--Kentucky

Partial Transcript: You had quite an inauguration.

Segment Synopsis: Brown talks about his reputation as a political outsider, and talks about his relationships with various politicians. He talks about his firing of Frank Metz. He tells the story of writing his State of the Union speech the night before giving it, and discusses the creation of his budget.

Keywords: Bill May; Bob Warren; Cabinet members; Careers; Contributions; Frank Metz; Inauguration committee; Legislature; Neil Welch; Outsiders; Paul Patton; Phyllis George Brown; State of the Union speech; Taping; Wire tapping

Subjects: Budget; Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Politicians--Kentucky

Partial Transcript: Immediately after the, uh, election, um, you appointed Larry Townsend as, uh, State Democratic Party Chair.

Segment Synopsis: Brown talks about the people who were Democratic Party Chair during his term as governor. He talks about his policy of not hiring people based on patronage, as well as his position on leaving much of the decision-making to his cabinet secretaries who he felt were more qualified than he was on various subjects. He discusses the people he chose to appoint to his cabinet and other government positions. He talks about his appointment of women and minorities to his cabinet. He talks more about his stance against corruption in government.

Keywords: Affirmative Action; Authority; Autonomy; Bill Sturgill; Cabinet members; Cabinet secretaries; Carol Cunk; Corruption; Delegation; Democratic Party Chair; Disagreement; Education; Executive secretaries; Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI); Foster Pettit; George Adkins; Hiring; Investigations; Jack Lambert; Jackie Swigart; Jacqueline Swigart; Julian Carroll; June Taylor; Leadership; Neil Welch; New York Times; Patronage; Political appointments; Ralph Ed Graves; Robert Cobb; School principals; Speechwriters; State employees; Truckers; William E. McAnulty, Jr.

Subjects: African Americans--Politics and government; Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Politicians--Kentucky; State governments--Officials and employees; Women in politics

Partial Transcript: As you headed into your first legislative session as governor, what role did you see yourself playing?

Segment Synopsis: Brown discusses his priorities as governor and what he accomplished. He discusses his desires to simplify various government processes, implement a flat tax, and implement collective bargaining for teachers. He discusses the levels of success for each of these ventures.

Keywords: Collective bargaining; Controversy; Governors; Legislation; Legislators; Management; Mining permits; Priorities; Role of governor; Secretary to the Cabinet; Simplification; Tax reform; Teachers; Workers compensation

Subjects: Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Law and legislation; State governments; State governments--Officials and employees; Taxation--Law and legislation--Kentucky

Partial Transcript: Okay this is an interview with John Y. Brown, Jr. on February 27th, 2013. This is tape number four.

Segment Synopsis: Brown discusses his relationship with the state legislators, including the "Black Sheep Squadron" who had previously disagreed with Governor Julian Carroll's policies. He talks specifically about his relationship with Mike Maloney. He discusses his position on legislative independence and separation of powers in government.

Keywords: "Black Sheep Squadron"; Balance of power; General Assembly; Governors; Lawsuits; Legislative independence; Legislative leadership; Legislators; Legislature; Mike Maloney

Subjects: Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Kentucky. General Assembly. House of Representatives; Kentucky. General Assembly. Senate; Politicians--Kentucky

Partial Transcript: You know Julian Carroll had a staff numbering between sixty and seventy people.

Segment Synopsis: Brown compares the size of his staff to the size of former Governor Julian Carroll's staff. He discusses his other attempts to simplify and consolidate government. He talks about his work on the economic development of Kentucky, including his efforts to keep GE in Louisville by improving the climate for businesses in the city. He talks about beginning his term as governor with a budget deficit, and the various budget cuts he made throughout his term as governor.

Keywords: Accountability; Agenda; Budget cuts; Budget deficit; Business climate; Commerce; Consolidation; Downsizing; Economy; Education; Funding; General Electric (GE); Governors office; Jack Welch; Julian Carroll; Kentucky Horse Park; Layoffs; Louisville (Ky.); Morale; Phyllis George Brown; Priorities; Promotion; Staff; State employees; State payroll cuts; Taxes; Toyota

Subjects: Carroll, Julian Morton, 1931-; Economic development--Kentucky; Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Economic conditions; Kentucky--Politics and government; State governments--Officials and employees

Partial Transcript: It, it was said by people who knew you in business, and you've mentioned this yourself, that you could have a short attention span...

Segment Synopsis: Brown talks about how his A.D.D. affected his career. He discusses the strengths of Kentucky which can be used to promote the state. He talks about balancing coal as an asset as well as the environmental concerns of coal. He talks about several types of taxes that were collected during his term. He talks about his reform of personal service contracts and insurance contracts to make them more ethical.

Keywords: "Gas tax Johnny"; Accomplishments; Assets; Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD); Attitudes; Coal; Coal counties; Coal severance tax; Development; Education; Environmental concerns; Ethics; Funding; Golf courses; Governor's contingency fund; Heritage; Image; Insurance contracts; Kentucky; Kentucky Fried Chicken (KFC); Lexington (Ky.); Louisville (Ky.); Mountains; Parks; Personal service contracts; President Jimmy Carter; Progress; Reforms; Strengths; Weaknesses; Weight and distance tax

Subjects: Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Political corruption--Kentucky; State governments--Officials and employees; Taxation--Law and legislation--Kentucky

Partial Transcript: We talked about legislative independence. Um, in your opinion how did the legislature react to, um, the hands-off approach that you, that you took?

Segment Synopsis: Brown talks more about his relationship with the General Assembly, the Kentucky Congressional delegation, and the national Governors Conference. He talks about his response to some of the disasters that occurred during his term as governor. He talks about his defense of the Appalachian Regional Commission.

Keywords: Appalachian Regional Commission; Congressional delegation; Disasters; Federal government; Federal programs; General Assembly; Governors Conference; Leadership; Legislative independence; Sewage explosions; Strikes

Subjects: Kentucky--Politics and government; Kentucky. General Assembly. House of Representatives; Kentucky. General Assembly. Senate

Partial Transcript: What, what was your relationship with the press?

Segment Synopsis: Brown talks about the negative stories written about his administration during his term as governor. He talks about both his and his wife Phyllis' views on the media. He talks about the renovation of the Governor's Mansion and how the story was covered by the press. He talks about why he supported Jimmy Carter as the next presidential candidate over Ted Kennedy.

Keywords: Coal developments; Courier Journal; Endorsement; Governor's Mansion; Helicopters; Media; Negativity; Phyllis George Brown; President Jimmy Carter; Presidential campaigns; Press; Ted Kennedy

Subjects: Government and the press.; Governors--Kentucky; Politicians--Kentucky; Press and politics.

Partial Transcript: You had a running disagreement with the state agricultural commissioner, Alben Barkley II over control of some agricultural programs and initiatives.

Segment Synopsis: Brown tells the story of talking to UK president Otis Singletary about firing the football coach and improving the football team in order to inspire the people of the state.

Keywords: Alben Barkley II; Arenas; College football; Controversy; Donald Swain; Fran Curci; Freedom Hall; Losing; Otis A. Singletary; University of Louisville; Winning

Subjects: College presidents; College sports--Coaching; College sports.; Universities and colleges--Administration.; University of Kentucky

Partial Transcript: Okay. This is an oral history interview with John Y. Brown, Jr. on February 27, 2013. This is tape number five.

Segment Synopsis: Brown talks about some of the legislation that he unsuccessfully attempted to pass, including collective bargaining for teachers, a flat income tax, and a multi-county banking system. He talks about his participation in the Democratic Governors Campaign. He talks about the people involved in the creation of the Kentucky Center for the Arts in Louisville.

Keywords: Collective bargaining; Democratic Governors Campaign; Flat taxes; Income taxes; Julian Carroll; Kentucky Center for the Arts; Larry Townsend; Legislature; Martha Layne Collins; Multi-county banking; W. T. Young; Wendell Cherry

Subjects: Governors--Kentucky; Kentucky--Politics and government; Law and legislation; Louisville (Ky.)

Partial Transcript: You know, in addition to your children from your first marriage you and Phyllis had two children while you were in office.

Segment Synopsis: Brown discusses his relationship with his children. He talks more about his policy to delegate to people who knew more on various subjects than he did. He talks about his approval ratings as governor. He talks about his lack of desire to become a presidential candidate.

Keywords: Approval ratings; Children; Confidence; Delegation; Failures; Fatherhood; Governors; Jobs; Kentucky Fried Chicken (KFC); Phyllis George Brown; Presidential candidates; School administration; Staff; Success

Subjects: Families.; Governors--Kentucky; Politicians--Kentucky

Partial Transcript: From, from May to July of 1983, your last year in office, you experies--experienced a series of events that may have played an important role in your political career.

Segment Synopsis: Brown talks about negative media coverage of several issues that may have led to his bypass surgery. He talks about how these health issues affected his life, and discusses his decision not to run for the Senate. He talks about his legacy. The interview is concluded.

Keywords: Bypass surgery; Drinking; Gambling debt; James Lambert; Legacy; Media; Recovery; Respirator; Running for office; Senate; Smoking; Stress

Subjects: Government and the press.; Governors--Kentucky; Health issues; Press and politics.