Interview with Brad Boswell, John Boswell, July 31, 2014

 GREGORY: Can you guys talk a little bit about the old days, of what it was like when your father and your grandfather were doing this work, and, and what it was like to, to be in, in a, in a stave mill, or out harvesting trees, even, what that work was like and what kind of equipment they used?

BRAD BOSWELL: Well, go ahead.

JOHN BOSWELL: OK, I'll give it a try. I've seen pictures of the, uh, the big cross-saws, where that, that--you'd have a man on each end of it, and that's how they--we have chainsaws now in the fork. We go-- (makes buzzing sound) You know, and you work your way through it, and you work around the tree, and you cut a wedge in it. You know, you cut a wedge in it, and then you fell the tree. Back in the old days, they had to use crosscut bow-saws, and sometimes people get hurt really bad, because the tree would start to fall before it was supposed to, and then when it did sometimes there'd be a b-- a f-- a spring-back that would--a piece would come back and, you know, could really--could--it killed 00:01:00people, literally. It was very dangerous. So it's a lot, lot safer now, with chainsaws, than it was back in those days with the cross bow-saws. And in those days, uh, you know, they used mules, and you judged the size of a stave mill by how many mules it had. It'd be like a, a, you know a twenty-mule stave mill, or a forty-mule stave mill. You know, they actually talked about the size of the mill, that was--uh, how many mules they had working there. You know, and that sounds crazy, but, you know, that, that--how you judge the size of a mill by how--the number of mules. And, uh, so, you know, things have changed and a long--come a long ways now that we've-- You know, I, I saw the, the first forklifts where the--we could pick up more--we could pick up more than one stack of staves at a time, and, uh, and, and that would be, uh, back, back in those days like five hundred pieces, and now when you pick up, how big are, are they now, son?

BRAD BOSWELL: Like--

JOHN BOSWELL: --how many pieces?

BRAD BOSWELL: Yeah, like four thousand pieces. (laughs)

JOHN BOSWELL: So it's gone from five hundred to four thousand pieces that you pick up at one time with a forklift. So, I mean, it's a lot, lot different in that area, in material handling. Uh, and dangerous--not near as dangerous now. So what do you think about --------(??)--

BRAD BOSWELL: --I remember the-- I mean, yeah, we used to go out in the woods, and even when I first got in the business people used, um, um--would split bolts in the, in the wood, so what we'd do is you'd go out and you'd cut a tree on the chainsaw, but then you would actually take the tree, cut in s-- st-- barrel-length blocks, and then take a, a maul and a wedge--a maul, like a big hammer--

JOHN BOSWELL: --um-hm.

BRAD BOSWELL: --and you would, like, cut firewood, but it wasn't firewood. It was--it was what we'd then take later to the stave mill, and cut it into barrel staves. So we'd literally go out in the woods with a hammer and maul, you know, cutting wedges, or cutting stave bolts to take to the stave mill to saw in the staves, and today, you know, obviously there's tractor trailer rigs that come in, you know, with twenty-foot-long logs on, and they go on conveyors and machineries and computers and cut 'em up, so it's changed a lot there. We used 00:03:00to have--there used to be--um, when there, there was--there was actually homes on the property in Lebanon, Missouri, weren't there? I've seen old pictures--

JOHN BOSWELL: --yeah, sure.

BRAD BOSWELL: --like with--where employees, that I can, you know, get 'em back, like, in the '30s, in the stave mill--

JOHN BOSWELL: --um-hm.

BRAD BOSWELL: --that people s-- live on a property.

JOHN BOSWELL: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

BRAD BOSWELL: Grandpa got a place to live, and they'd just come to work--

JOHN BOSWELL: --yeah.

BRAD BOSWELL: --walk to work.

JOHN BOSWELL: Yeah, I remember in France in, uh--that when we first went to France there were, uh--the French would have, um, the employees staying in, like, boarding houses.

BRAD BOSWELL: Um-hm.

JOHN BOSWELL: You know, I remember that in France. So, uh, but--and my dad had that. I didn't have that, but my dad did.

GREGORY: So it was almost like a company town kind of thing.

JOHN BOSWELL: Sort of, yeah. We had a company store, you know, where we--

BRAD BOSWELL: --houses.

JOHN BOSWELL: --where we gave credit--

BRAD BOSWELL: --------(??).

JOHN BOSWELL: --we gave credit to the employees. You know, lots of times, uh, the guys would have a hard time holding on to their paychecks, 'cause they liked to drink, you know, and, uh, uh, they're usually pretty low education, if any, and, uh, and so my dad would, would, would, uh, hold their check for their wife 00:04:00to pick up--(laughs)--at the factory store, where they bought their groceries. (laughter) But, uh, but the grocery stores were actually cheaper than the grocery stores in town, so-- That was before Walmart, you know, supermarkets and things. You know, it was a different, different world then.

GREGORY: Brad, I think you had mentioned to us that they used to actually move the mill from place to place. Is that correct?

BRAD BOSWELL: Yeah, back when my great-grandfather started the business, the mills were mobile. So, you know, you would actually cut two or--maybe two or three or four acres of land, and the mill would be right there at the--by the trees, then you'd move over to the next, you know, um, location. They used steam engines, or they'd use mules, and, you know, then they eventually used diesel gener-- you know, generators, but they were very mobile. Even when I first got in the business--and when I was a kid, the mills were--you could set a mill up in about, you know, probably thirty days or less.

JOHN BOSWELL: Um-hm.

BRAD BOSWELL: Today, to build a mill is like, you know, you know, a one-year-long project, at least, you know, and millions and millions of dollars. But even thirty years ago, a stave mill, you could have one set up in thirty days. Just, you know, put a tent shut up, you know, a pole barn building, and, and put a generator out there and, you know, start cutting staves, basically.

JOHN BOSWELL: Yeah, it would be basically a--one mill for every four thousand barrels was the standard, was about one mill for every four thousand barrels. And now--

BRAD BOSWELL: --a lot more than that.

JOHN BOSWELL: --(laughter)--I mean, the new mill--

BRAD BOSWELL: --not for that --------(??).

JOHN BOSWELL: --the new--the new mill we're--the new mill we're building, it, it--

BRAD BOSWELL: ------------(??)----------.

JOHN BOSWELL: --it's a lot bigger.

BRAD BOSWELL: (laughs) Yeah.

JOHN BOSWELL: You know, twenty times bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger. Different world.

GREGORY: And both of you guys started working in the business at very young ages, um, and you came--you worked, it sounds like, every job that there was, uh, in, in, in the operation. So what, what was that like? What was the benefit of doing that for both of you?

JOHN BOSWELL: Well, we learned the business, you know. I'm sure Brad will do the same with his kids. Seth'll be-- He was outside just now, you know, looking at the plant, and did a couple jobs while I was in there, you know. Uh, that's how you learn: by doing. That's the best.

BRAD BOSWELL: Yeah, I think when I go out on the--on the cooper's floor, on the stave mill floor and talk to somebody about their job, they, they know I've done that job and know it, makes it a lot easier m-- to, you know, to be a leader when you know everybody's job.

GREGORY: Did Brad take to it pretty easily when he was nine years old?

JOHN BOSWELL: The best. Brad was the best. Yeah, Brad was the best, the best student I ever had.

BRAD BOSWELL: That's nice.

JOHN BOSWELL: (laughs)

BRAD BOSWELL: Thank you.

JOHN BOSWELL: It's true.

GREGORY: Tell, tell us about, um, some of those early road trips. What--where you guys went, what it was like being in a--in the car for long hours at a stretch.

BRAD BOSWELL: I learned how to read pretty well. I'd read him lots of books 00:07:00while he'd, um--

JOHN BOSWELL: --(laughs)--

BRAD BOSWELL: --while he'd drive.

JOHN BOSWELL: Yeah.

BRAD BOSWELL: On the way back.

JOHN BOSWELL: Yeah, it was, um-- You know, it was father/son bonding. Uh, I don't think we ever did fuss at each other. I don't even remember having one, one argument with Brad. Um, we've always really gotten along well.

BRAD BOSWELL: Um-hm.

JOHN BOSWELL: Uh-- He's just been easy to work with, and I try to be a good dad, try and love him, and he tries to show respect for me, and, you know, when you both put forth an effort, well, life gets pretty good, and they just got better and better, and today here we are. My goodness, you know, son, I'm so proud of you I could just bust.

BRAD BOSWELL: (laughs)

JOHN BOSWELL: I had in tears in my eyes over there.

BRAD BOSWELL: Oh, boy.

JOHN BOSWELL: I did.

GREGORY: Was there a project that you guys ever worked on together as adults, something specific that, that took some special collaboration between the two of you?

JOHN BOSWELL: Oh my goodness. It was the new--you know, every time we do a, uh--I, I can speak first. I mean, I'm sorry, Brad. But, I mean, you know--but I-- It seems like, you know, what's going on is that I see the things that I had started, at least, at least on paper. Brad's building, and now, just now starting--and what--how long has it been since I've been in active--really active? You know--.

BRAD BOSWELL: Dozen years or--

JOHN BOSWELL: --yeah, ten years, close, about ten years, I'm going to say. And now I'm seeing that the projects that he's got, some of them I didn't know about the origin. You know, I mean, I just-- And they're really good. So, um, you know, and he's just now getting into the, the, the projects that, that I had that were--that I didn't, uh, have much to do with the origination, 'cause it takes about ten years for a project to leave the idea stage, to become a reality in, in our business, a project being like a new heading turner, a new barrel 00:09:00line, uh, a new way to join staves, you know, those type of major projects.

BRAD BOSWELL: Yeah, I remember being in Lebanon, Missouri at our, at our stave mill, and we had, like, old railroad cars, you know, like for a little maintenance shed, to store parts in. And I remember being there at ten o'clock at night, talking to my dad on the phone about, you know, the new, new blades we were using in our sawmills, you know, these new thin curve, more efficient saws we've been building. So I remember, you know, spending a couple hours of the evening in the old boxcar, you know, talking about staves at 10:30 at night, talking about the, the blades we were developing to, you know, cut better quality--

JOHN BOSWELL: --just think how spe--

BRAD BOSWELL: --to ----------(??) staves.

JOHN BOSWELL: Just think how specific that is: the blade designed to cut to give maximum efficiency in our mills.

BRAD BOSWELL: Also, I remember we had a, um-- But we al-- we've always gotten along good, but I do remember Larry Grove was a good facilitator--

JOHN BOSWELL: --right.

BRAD BOSWELL: --in our business, 'cause we had a, a guy we worked with for a 00:10:00long time who was an engineer, but, um, we did get kind of heated under the collar one time at a--I think it was--we were, like, at a trade show talking about some new technology, or something we wanted to install, and it got really high temperature pretty fast. And everybody else kind of scatters, you know, except for Larry. What'd Larry say? (laughs)

JOHN BOSWELL: Yeah, and Larry said, "You know what's good about family businesses? They get spicy."

BRAD BOSWELL: Spicy, just spice.

JOHN BOSWELL: He said, "They get spicy."

BRAD BOSWELL: Yeah.

JOHN BOSWELL: "That's what's good about family business." And we laughed about it, and that was ----------(??). (laughter) You know, from now on it just-- We're getting a little spicy. (laughter) And that's good.

BRAD BOSWELL: That's a-- Yeah.

JOHN BOSWELL: That's good. Family businesses get that way. You can't do that with somebody that's not a family business. You'd get fired or you, you know, run somebody off, but in--we're, we're, we're together, like it or not. We're-- (laughs) We're a team.

BRAD BOSWELL: Like, n--

JOHN BOSWELL: --period.

BRAD BOSWELL: --two railcars hitched together. (laughter)

JOHN BOSWELL: Yeah, that's right.

GREGORY: Did you really talk about barrels at breakfast?

BRAD BOSWELL: Yeah. (laughs)

JOHN BOSWELL: Sure. Sure, yeah. I mean, that's what, that's what, that's 00:11:00what, that's what we did all. That's what we did. You know, yeah, we talked about barrels a lot.

BRAD BOSWELL: Yeah, we talked about work all the time.

JOHN BOSWELL: All the time. We still do--

BRAD BOSWELL: --some people say--

JOHN BOSWELL: --and it's not work for us. Remember, it's our lives. There's a big difference. There's a big difference of going to work every morning, and, uh, not having to go to work. You just live it. I don't feel--I don't feel any strain. I don't--you know, I mean, to me, work is not really work.

BRAD BOSWELL: Yeah, it's a privilege.

JOHN BOSWELL: It's a privilege. Yeah, thank you, son.

GREGORY: So when the, the family gets together now, your siblings and the various kids and grandkids and such, is it still conversation about barrels, or--?

JOHN BOSWELL: Sometimes, yeah. A new project, you know. We, we talk about fish--we go fishing, and when we're fishing we talk about barrels. (laughter) But we go to the lake. Actually, we go water skiing. You know, we're videoing 00:12:00and taking pictures of the kids water skiing and enjoying all that. We do, we do family outings like that. But, but, but the barrel, the background--the business is always there. It's not a bad thing. It's, it's something that's on our mind, and we talk about it. I think Brad's probably, you know, uh, you know, more-- You know, it used to be I would be teaching him, but now I think he's teaching me, 'cause he's really--you know, he's, he's really developing, especially, like, with flavors. Brad understands the development of flavor in the barrel much better than I ever did, and, uh, he's taken it to another level. And, uh, I really like that. That's fun. I mean, flavors-- I s-- my dad sold a container. I sold a, a container for bourbon and for wine and for spirits, and used different--some different techniques for it, but Brad sells flavoring. It's different, different. So he's--he's more at the essence of what our 00:13:00company's all about, and that's flavoring wine and spirits, and now I understand some soft drinks.

GREGORY: So what's, uh, a big thing that you learned from your dad?

BRAD BOSWELL: Oh, I think that to be enthusiastic is--about your work, and to be passionate, is the most important thing I've learned. I mean, he--whenever we were young kids he would, um, come to our bedrooms, and first thing in the morning he'd say, "Act enthusiastic, be enthusiastic, boy, am I enthusiastic!" And that's how we were woke up--that's how we were awoken in the morning. And so, you know, that was-- If that didn't work, you'd get a bucket of ice cold water--

JOHN BOSWELL: --(laughs)--

BRAD BOSWELL: --poured on the bed.

JOHN BOSWELL: Yeah.

BRAD BOSWELL: But, but that's how he always started off, with, uh, "Act enthusiastic, be enthusiastic, boy, am I enthusiastic," and that was a daily ritual, basically. So, you know, I think that that makes life--that makes life better, you know? I think it just makes life, um, you know, when you're enthusiastic and have see-- you see your father with a passion for life and a 00:14:00passion for his work-- Then again, it's not really work. I mean, you know, it's, it's something that we're privileged and have opportunity to, opportunity to enjoy. Nothing we dread.

JOHN BOSWELL: We--

BRAD BOSWELL: --people talk about, "Well, don't bring work home and talk about work around your family," because, you know-- But for us, is--you know, that's if work's more of a negative thing, but for us, work is a--it's--our b-- our business is a positive thing, you know, and it's fun to talk about. And so we don't really--we probably are a l-- have a little different point of view of talking about work at home, because we, you know, enjoy it so much.

GREGORY: You want, want to--

JOHN BOSWELL: --ditto.

GREGORY: --------------(??) to that? OK. Um, along that line, tell us the story about your son, and, and the passion for work that he's already exhibiting.

BRAD BOSWELL: Yeah, it was last--it was last summer--so I have a fourteen-year-old son, and he was working that week at our stave mill in Missouri, the one close to where I live. And he'd actually gone to the woods at 6:00 a.m. that morning--not a big deal, but they'd left at about 6:00 a.m. Um, 00:15:00one of my coworkers picked him up, and they went to the work site, to the logging site. He learned how to work, you know, and he got a bunch of seed ticks all over, you know, and he was covered wtih--covered with ticks, and he didn't really complain. And then they drove to the mill, about an hour away from the logging site, and they worked all day at the mill, and then, um-- And it's hard work, and he's working. You know, he's fourteen, he's a big kid, so he's, he's working. And then, um, he got home about 6:15. He said--I got home at 6:45 and I noticed that he was the only one home at the--at that time. So, um, he was just sitting in the living room, kind of quiet, resting, and I said, "Drew, how was your day?" And I thought he would come back to me saying, "Oh, Dad, I worked twelve hours today, and all my friends are playing baseball or at s-- the swimming pool, or doing this." He started talking about work, and we went out to have dinner, sat at a dinner table for two more hours, he talked about work and his day, and then we went home, like, at, you know, 9:00, you know, like, at 9:30 or something he stopped talking about it. I was like, wow. 00:16:00Now, that was a great moment, I mean, because--not because I--but he can embrace it and find pleasure in work, you know, and something that he has-- He has something to look forward to, so when he thinks about work now he's not thinking about, you know, wearing himself out, or something I gotta--I have to do to make ends meet. He's thinking about something that he gets to do to--you know, that's fun.

GREGORY: That must make you really proud.

JOHN BOSWELL: Oh, man. I'm busting with joy right now. That's music to my ears.

GREGORY: You not only got to see that in your son, now you're getting to see it--

JOHN BOSWELL: --yeah, my grandchildren.

GREGORY: --in your grandchildren.

JOHN BOSWELL: Yeah. Don't you know my granddad would be proud? T.W.

BRAD BOSWELL: Yeah, I was thinking about earlier today, Seth, my ten-year-old's here working, and it wasn't--probably almost my grandfather, a hundred years ago, J.E., was training under his dad. You know he's working--

JOHN BOSWELL: --wow.

BRAD BOSWELL: --you know, almost a hundred years ago.

JOHN BOSWELL: A hundred years ago.

BRAD BOSWELL: Because he was born in--

JOHN BOSWELL: --you're right--no, you're right, a hundred years.

BRAD BOSWELL: Yeah. So I think it's great that I have Seth there today, 00:17:00working the cooperage training, learning, but about a hundred years ago my grandfather was working with his father, at that time at the mill, training and working, learning the business.

JOHN BOSWELL: Family tradition, a hundred years.

BRAD BOSWELL: Yeah.

JOHN BOSWELL: That's cool. Super cool.

BRAD BOSWELL: Yeah.

JOHN BOSWELL: Super cool.

[End of interview.]