00:00:00CHARLES HARDY: All right. I guess most people would be from the South now, right?
WILLIAM FIELDS: Yeah. The majority of them.
HARDY: OK. Well, let’s start in here, then. So, now your name is Williams Fields?
FIELDS: Williams Fields, William E. Fields.
HARDY: And, uh, how old are you, Mr. Fields?
FIELDS: Ninety-five, and a half.
HARDY: And a half? [laughter]
FIELDS: [laughter]
HARDY: And you come from Texas?
FIELDS: From, uh, no, I’m from Dallas--from Texas, yeah. From Texas, Dallas,
Texas. That’s where I come from, Texas.
HARDY: Did you grow up on a farm, or in the city itself?
FIELDS: Yeah, I grew up on a farm in Denton County, Texas. I was raised on the
farm until I was 17. I just talked to a man today-- about it. Yeah, I was--and
then from there, down to Dallas, after I got in town. Then I got into the
00:01:00cooking field. And I left--I spent some time in Sherman, Texas too, the hotel.
That’s where I learned the hotel work, waiting tables. Then I was--got
married in Sherman. That’s where I started my family, and had one child, and
she’s still living.
HARDY: Huh?
FIELDS: I live with her. So...
HARDY: How did you get, um, from Texas up to Philadelphia?
FIELDS: On an exit in Pennsylvania for the Pennsylvania Railroad. I landed out
00:02:00at the--I never can think of the name of the--I come on an exit. There’s a
bunch. And, I landed here on the sixth of August, 1917. And I went to Jersey.
The hotel--Shelter Haven Hotel, finished the season. Come back to Philadelphia
in October. I got employment first at Strawbridge and Clothiers. I didn’t
00:03:00like the price. [laughter] So, I got attached with the Baldwin Locomotive gang
went out there for a while. Bigger money. I was there pretty much that whole
winter, part of that winter. And the spring, I went to--over to, uh, Carney’s
Point, New Jersey, in the kitchen, cooking. By then, the war was over, and I
00:04:00came back to Philadelphia, jobbed around here and there for a while. And
finally got into the institution of cooking, and I stayed with that until--up
until now. Then I started my career in the kitchen back then. I was in a camp
10, 10, years in New Hampshire, Camp Dearwood. It was summer. I go back
there--and I go back there on visits every year now. [laughter]
HARDY: Ah. What made you-- What motivated you to come to Philadelphia?
00:05:00
FIELDS: Oh, seeking better conditions. You hear things you know and you seek
them. Seeking better conditions, that’s all. That’s what everybody was
doing, looking for better conditions. That’s the best I can answer for that.
HARDY: OK. Did you leave--I know during the war down in Texas there, there
was--I guess there was a black regiment down there that was being harassed by some...
FIELDS: [ ]
HARDY: Huh?
FIELDS: Yeah, and...
HARDY: And they shot some people and were arrested, some of them, hung.
FIELDS: Oh, I don’t...
HARDY: And it was a big controversy. Did you leave before that, do you remember?
FIELDS: Yeah, I never was into none of that, that was a further part of the
00:06:00South. And I was in Dallas. I worked for the restaurant. And the last work
I’ve done in Texas was working for the Western Electric Company packing.
That’s what I was doing when I left. So...
HARDY: What were some of the conditions, then, that were particularly
objectionable that you wanted to get away from?
FIELDS: Well, to tell the truth, I was just like everybody else. What you hear,
00:07:00you seek to hear better. You’re part of the gang. [laughter] So, that’s
just about the answer to it, because I wasn’t suffering in this like that.
Because I had a fairly good job for that time. I was living fairly well. No
suffering. Conditions with me at that time was fairly good. I came here in
the, the, uh--I was here during the, uh, famine, when they had the--I was over
in Jersey working when the, uh, well, let’s see.
00:08:00
HARDY: The influenza epidemic?
FIELDS: No, not epidemic. I was over there with--it’s a cooking job when that
epidemic come, the, uh, flu. I was working, I worked in the women’s hospital,
special hospital. They had a special women’s hospital, a special man’s
hospital. And I cooked in the women’s hospital until the war was over. And
the day we broke the hospital was the day the war was closing. So, I come back
over to the main camp, worked there until the job ran out. [laughter] That’s
when I come on back to Philadelphia.
HARDY: You said just a minute ago that, you know, the main reason you came up
00:09:00was because you’d heard--you know, you were doing what the other people were
doing you’d heard about.
FIELDS: Yeah.
HARDY: What had you heard about the North?
FIELDS: Well, just that it’s better wages, and all of that kind of stuff, you
know? They heard the railroad was paying better wages, and better wages and
better conditions up here than it was there in Texas. I got here, I didn’t
find a lot of difference. [laughter] Not like I was expecting. So, I guess a
lot of us were surprised.
HARDY: Hmm, can you give me some examples of the things you didn’t find that
you’d expected?
FIELDS: Well, I expected--I’ll tell you, I went to work at Strawbridge's--and
I complained about the salary they was paying the porters and things. And the
00:10:00man increased my salary. Of course, see, I left a job in Texas was paying me
$10 a week. That was a reasonable salary them days. And to come here and work
for $9 a week was disappointing. That’s why I didn’t stay there, and went
to Baldwin Locomotive Works where they was paying more money. So, those are the
conditions that we ran into. It wasn’t as good as we expected, in general.
So, you just had to battle it out the best you could do.
00:11:00
HARDY: Did you ever think of going back south?
FIELDS: Well, not, not--I’ve been back, but I didn’t expect to go back to
live. I never did plan to go back to live.
HARDY: So, the disappointments weren’t so great when you arrived up here that
you were going to turn around and head back home and say forget it.
FIELDS: No, not at that time. Because I really didn’t leave nothing there,
you know, to go back for.
HARDY: Had you been given any warnings about coming up--you know, things to
watch out for, or dangers that you’d find up north? I know there were some
stories--I guess they used to spread the stories about don’t go up north, the
weather is cold, you’ll get sick, and...
FIELDS: No, no. Well, I didn’t have any. I didn’t have any warnings about
it. But, uh--and I got here, I found it. [laughter]
00:12:00
HARDY: What was that?
FIELDS: Well, it--the first winter here was very rough. It started snowing
Thanksgiving, snowed every night until March. [laughter] That’s the first
winter out here. And so, you know, that was pretty tough, because I had
[cough]excuse me. I wasn’t prepared exactly for what kind of weather in
clothing. But I made it out all right. That’s the worst winter that I’ve seen.
HARDY: Yeah, I’d heard the winter of 1917 was a pretty bad one.
FIELDS: Seventeen and ’18.
00:13:00
HARDY: Yeah. Now when you came up, did you come alone, did you come with a
group of other men?
FIELDS: I came with a bunch. It was quite a few bunch of fellows, a lot of them
I knew, and some I didn’t know. Some of my church people, one or two of my
church members with me.
HARDY: Did you all pay your own way, or was it paid for...
FIELDS: Yeah, we had to pay our own way. But it was cut.
HARDY: And you say you came by boat.
FIELDS: No, no.
HARDY: Came by train?
FIELDS: Train, train.
HARDY: How did--do you remember how people felt? How did people feel when they
were on the train coming to work?
FIELDS: Oh, we just--I don’t know, I can’t hardly imagine. But we had the
00:14:00food, they fed us, they fed you on the train. Because there was exiting all
over the country, go through different parts of the country, California and
everywhere. A lot of people from Dallas went to California, a lot of people in
my bunch that I knew went to California. Instead of coming this way, they went
west. And I just longed for the name of Philadelphia, I just loved the name
Philadelphia. [laughter] So, I accepted to come this way. So, that’s about it.
HARDY: Because I guess most people from your area would’ve gone up to Chicago,
or Cleveland, or a place like that.
FIELDS: Well, well a lot of them, uh, some went to Chicago, some went to
00:15:00California. But they was going in all different directions, settling in
different set places. That’s why the people now are scattered all over--from
the South, scattered all over the United States.
HARDY: Do you remember any attempts by the white officials, or businessmen, to
keep people, you know, back down there, to discourage them from going north?
FIELDS: No, I don’t remember that, I...
HARDY: Because I know down in Florida and Georgia there were real efforts, they
started taking people off the trains, arresting the labor agents.
FIELDS: That must’ve been after I come, I started, I didn’t get into none of
that, not in my group. Hey, yes? [laughter] How are you doing?
[Off-topic discussion with someone else in room]
00:16:00
HARDY: That’s OK, we’ve got to do a lot of cutting and pasting. When you go
to--what were your first impressions of the city when you arrived here?
FIELDS: Well, I’ll tell you, I was a little disappointed in the style and the
class of the city. Because I came from an up to date city, Dallas has always
been--Dallas, is next to New York in style. The styling here was way behind
what I had seen, and I was disappointed in that. Philadelphia was very slow at
that time, very slow, in styling and everything else.
00:17:00
HARDY: What sort of styles?
FIELDS: Well, in dressing, and the prices, and sales, and things. The sales of
things was way below prom--.
HARDY: You mean, the women--the men and the women didn’t dress to the latest
fashions, or...
FIELDS: Well, not exactly. A big change in the dressing, but the--just
Philadelphia in general was behind, was starting like uh, like you hear on the
air all the time, people giving different styles, you didn’t have anything.
It was very slow to what I had been used to. And stores--the stores got slow in
00:18:00their presentations and stuff, the classes, as I said.
HARDY: Now, it’s interesting, you’re the, you’re the second person who’s
mentioned that to me. I, I talked to a fellow up from Jacksonville, Florida.
And he said, you know, Jacksonville was the New York of the South.
FIELDS: Yeah.
HARDY: And he said when he came up to Philadelphia, the thing that really struck
him was that men didn’t know how to dress in Philadelphia.
FIELDS: That’s the truth.
HARDY: And it was only after people coming up from the South for a while, from
Jacksonville and others, that they sort of caught up with fashion.
FIELDS: He is exactly right, that’s the way it was. Now, as I said, Dallas
was like New York, up tp New York style. And Dallas has always been forward
00:19:00with style, it is now. I went back there 15 years after I was here, it had gone
so high, I couldn’t know where I first lived, or... [laughter] That’s just
how fast it was growing. See, Dallas and Fort Worth is connected now, almost,
you know?
HARDY: Yeah. Now, did you have a--when you arrived, did you have a place to
stay, did you know where you were going to go?
FIELDS: Well, not exactly. We were supposed to stay on the reservation of the
railroad until we got located.
HARDY: How’s that?
FIELDS: I don’t know, we got to uh, Carney, no, it’s not Carney’s Point,
it’s another point. Where did the--you know, the railroad point out here,
00:20:00south of --that’s where we landed.
HARDY: So, they were going to--that was a railroad camp, then?
FIELDS: Yeah. We were supposed to stay at that camp if you wanted to--if you
didn’t--if you could get away you were gone. And that afternoon when we
arrived here, and two or three more fellows, we come on into the city. And we
stayed at the Y for awhile here on Christian Street. I was there when I hired
from--I was to be uptown on a Monday and met this hotel man and got hired. And
00:21:00the next day, I was gone, I didn’t have to worry about what I was seeing.
HARDY: So, it only took you a day to get a job?
FIELDS: That’s all.
HARDY: Now, you say when you first arrived then, you were supposed to stay in
the railroad camp--the Pennsylvania Railroad camp?
FIELDS: Well, that’s all they had to offer you.
HARDY: What was there at the camp?
FIELDS: Oh, I think they fed you because I never did eat there. We come on in
town that afternoon after we left the car.
HARDY: The reason why I, I’m curious is because I know when the Pennsylvania
Railroad first started bringing people up, uh, they wanted, they needed laborers
for the railroad, and they were putting up a lot of men in boxcars and tents,
and the men just didn’t like it, and, and left...
FIELDS: That’s what they were doing, that’s the only preparations they had
for it. That’s all they were doing because you’re supposed to work with
them. And I never, I never did do a day’s work for them.
00:22:00
HARDY: So, the railroad--you were brought up for the railroad?
FIELDS: Yeah. That’s what your transportation was. They was transporting you
up here for that work.
HARDY: So, you then were brought up by the railroad to do work for them?
FIELDS: Yeah.
HARDY: And you never spent a day?
FIELDS: No! [laughter] I got here on a Sunday and I left by that Sunday
afternoon. I went back out for my--what little clothes I had, I didn’t have
no clothes much. Come back in town on Monday. And I got this job on Monday,
and the man took me on up to New Jersey. And I stayed there on places until the
season was closed.
HARDY: I’m surprised the railroad let you get away that easily.
FIELDS: Well, I don’t know, we just walked away, nobody bothered. It was
00:23:00supposed to have guards, I think, you wasn’t supposed to leave them. Because
I never did have--we never had no trouble, the two or three of us that did come away.
HARDY: Did you have to sign any sort of--did you have any agreement with them
before you came up, about how much time you’d have to put in on the railroad
before you could leave?
FIELDS: I don’t remember that, whether we did or not, I don’t remember what
the signing up was, you just signed your name, that’s all. Sign your name,
we’re going. That’s the best I knew, I don’t think they had any real
contract combining.
HARDY: Right.
FIELDS: But you’re supposed to just--to be under the railroad.
HARDY: Was it all men who came up, in your train?
FIELDS: Yeah, all men in my car.
HARDY: What kind of men were they?
FIELDS: Oh, they were kind of--they were living men, working men, you know, they
00:24:00were working men. Just got together, got ready, and we had the time, and made
the dates that was ours to leave. That’s all. Some of them had jobs like I
did, and all --.
HARDY: This is--you’re the first person I’ve talked to who actually went
through one of those railroad camps.
FIELDS: Really?
HARDY: Yeah, and I mean, that was--you know, I’ve been trying to find someone
who had worked in one of the camps, or came through one.
FIELDS: Because I never worked in them.
HARDY: Well, you’re as close as I’ve gotten, I’ll tell you! [laughter]
FIELDS: Well, some of them did, though. Some of them stayed with it. Me and
two or three fellows came--we almost walked all the way in town. And then we
00:25:00got in touch with the church, and got in touch with the Y. Had a little money,
I didn’t have any--but my friends had money. [laughter] And I think I had
ninety cents when I got here. [laughter]
HARDY: Oh yeah? [laughter]
FIELDS: So, that’s how we got scattered. They got jobs, and my church
secretary, he got, I think he go a job at Wanamaker’s. I think he got a job
at Wanamaker’s. We all got work in the city. They stayed around a while, and
they went back, they went back.
HARDY: They went back...
FIELDS: To Texas, yeah.
HARDY: Why?
FIELDS: Some of them went back wanted to--went back, but I didn’t go.
00:26:00
HARDY: Why did they go back?
FIELDS: I don’t know. I don’t know why they went back. [laughter] Of
course, I didn’t get to see them to ask them why, by the time I knew anything,
they were gone. [laughter]
HARDY: Oh. So, what’s the first thing you did, then, when you arrived in the city?
FIELDS: Well, we went to--I’ll tell you, we went to--we found our way down to
Mother Bethel Church that night, that Sunday evening. And we met some people.
And they directed us to the Y for sleeping. So, we went to the Y and got rooms.
00:27:00And then we got information how to get uptown, and all of that kind of stuff.
HARDY: Are you a member of the AME Church, then?
FIELDS: No, I was a member of CME Church.
HARDY: So, had you heard of Mother Beth--did you know to go to Mother Bethel
when you came to Philadelphia?
FIELDS: No, I didn’t know--I didn’t--it’s a long time before I found a CME Church.
HARDY: So, why did you all go to Mother Bethel, rather than somewhere else?
FIELDS: I don’t know, different ones in directions. And there, we met people.
We met people. We didn’t join. Of course, it wasn’t too long after I come
back from over in Jersey that I found a CME Church. I joined there under,
00:28:00under-- care. And it was inconvenient out there for me to get to Hunting Park Avenue.
HARDY: That’s really interesting to me that the first thing you did when you
came to the city was, you know, go to a church.
FIELDS: Yeah. Yeah, well, I guess it is a little different. It’s kind of
odd, because most people find other places first. You know, we didn’t get
into no frolicking places, nothing. Just, we met people at the church that
directed us to the Y, and we got in with the Y, and you kept staying in touch,
you know?
HARDY: Right.
FIELDS: Until you got yourself located.
HARDY: Now, you say the first job you got then, the next day, was at
00:29:00Strawbridge’s? Was that the...
FIELDS: No, no, my first job...
HARDY: Which one?
FIELDS: My first job was in Jersey.
HARDY: Oh, the very first job was in Jersey?
FIELDS: The hotel at Shelter Haven in Jersey.
HARDY: And you stayed there...
FIELDS: From that time until the season closed. The season closed, the last
of--the first of October, I think it was.
HARDY: OK.
FIELDS: Because I stayed after they closed, they closed Labor Day, and I stayed
all along. And they closed up for the winter, I come on back to Philadelphia.
HARDY: What did you do when you came back to Philadelphia?
FIELDS: That’s when I got the job at Strawbridge’s.
HARDY: How did you find a place to stay when you got back to the city? Because
I know--you know, what I’ve heard from people that I read was during that
time, there weren’t many places for people to stay.
00:30:00
FIELDS: Well, I stayed at the Y for a while after I come back then. I stayed at
the Y a while after I worked at Strawbridge’s, and then I found a room,
eventually. The rooming was kind of plentiful then.
HARDY: Do you remember--I guess during the years--you came up in ’17, during
1917, 1918, when people were pouring into the city, I’ve heard that there were
really problems with finding accommodations for people, many people who came
couldn’t get jobs.
FIELDS: Well, there was, I guess a lot of people did have trouble getting jobs. Some...
HARDY: Were you aware of some of the troubles that...
FIELDS: No, because I didn’t have any. Because I went from one job to the
00:31:00next, if I didn’t get the job at one thing I like, I’d take something I
didn’t like. [laughter]
HARDY: And there was no problem to locate work?
FIELDS: Not exactly for me. I never did have much trouble. Then when I,
uh--that spring, when it was got , when was out the weather again, breaking out
of that job, see, they was building, uh… Hog Island. I got a job there on the
50th Way, the last way. I helped to finish that last wave.
END OF AUDIO FILE
HARDY: ...was Carney’s Point. Was that the Baldwin?
FIELDS: No, that was down at--it was, uh, it was commissary cooking. They
had--Du Ponts.
00:32:00
HARDY: OK. All right. What...
FIELDS: They were making powdered stuff, all kind of gun material stuff. And
this commissary was feeding the people. They fed 400-500 people a day.
HARDY: Were you a chief cook there, assistant cook?
FIELDS: No, I was just on the line. And then I got the job, when the flu comes,
they picked me out to send to the women’s camp. I cooked for the women during
the flu until it was over, we only lost about one or two people.
HARDY: Really? Not many for then.
FIELDS: No. And then, wasn’t nobody, wasn’t no men there but, the guard,
00:33:00myself, and the doctor was the only men that didn’t. Then, when they broke
camp, I cooked for a bunch of officers until everything else closed up, and
that’s when I come back to Philadelphia for good.
HARDY: You say you worked at Hog Island, then?
FIELDS: Yeah.
HARDY: What can you tell me about Hog Island?
FIELDS: [laughter] Well, I can tell you, I go down there ways and dug that hole
in that way! I’ll tell you what I did find, though, that was right after this
tough winter, we got way down in the--way down in the hole. We thought we were
digging rocks, we found out we were digging ice, down in that hole. And you was
00:34:00down pretty deep.
HARDY: Did you work in a gang with all black men?
FIELDS: It was mixed.
HARDY: It was mixed?
FIELDS: Yeah.
HARDY: Because I’ve seen some photographs of Hog Island, you know, it’s a
well-documented project. And the photos I’ve seen, the only--
FIELDS: Yeah, most of them was colored though were working. Most of the
laborers were colored.
HARDY: But the colored would work right side-by-side with the white men?
FIELDS: Yes, it was--nobody--.
HARDY: Were there any problems or tensions between the two?
FIELDS: None that I know of. Not in my gang. I don’t know, I’ve been
pretty lucky, I’ve had no trouble with nobody.
HARDY: Were most of the men up from the South, then?
FIELDS: The majority of them, yes.
HARDY: What sort of men were they?
FIELDS: Well, some was religious men, some ordinary men, you know, ordinary,
00:35:00ordinary people. Looking for work. [laughter] Ordinary people. Some of them
was nice to be around, some of them wasn’t, but you had to be there. Yeah,
Hog Island, I didn’t do--because I never was a man to run around out of my job
place. I didn’t meddle around other people’s business. When I got through
work, I’d come home. You know. And that job was finished, I didn’t, I
00:36:00didn’t try to hire on another job down there. Another boy did, and he had
been-- He had registered, he only had the little blue card that they used to
carry, that’s the card they give you. And they ignored that card and called
him a slacker. He went to hire on another, another way. And they, uh, in three
weeks, they had him on his way to Germany, two weeks for us. And he couldn’t
read or write. And I didn’t try to get no job on no other contract. I just
00:37:00come on in town and Mrs. Riddick’s employment office right around there. That
used to be. And that’s when she got me the job at this commissary.
HARDY: Mrs. Riddick’s employment office?
FIELDS: Riddick’s, yeah, Riddick’s employment office right around there on
15th Street. She died, and they broke up after she died.
HARDY: What was Mrs. Riddick’s? What sort of-- what can you tell me about
that employment office?
FIELDS: Well, she uh, she’d give you first class work. She followed you up,
see that you got placed. She’d give you very acceptable jobs, and she was a
00:38:00very nice lady. She was a very nice lady.
HARDY: What sort of work did she find for people? Was this primarily for house
work, or...
FIELDS: Oh, any line, any line, any line of work.
HARDY: Any line?
FIELDS: Uh, any line of work that you wanted to do, she had all lines of work.
Uh, industrial work, or any kind, labor work. Everything.
HARDY: Did a lot of people use the employment offices to find work back then?
FIELDS: Them days, they did. Yeah, them days, they did.
HARDY: And after the war ended, I heard uh, that, you know, there was a
00:39:00depression, I guess, in ’20, 1920.
FIELDS: That’s where I tried to get on, the work, and the Depression come on,
I was cooking over in Pemberton, New Jersey. TB sanitorium in Burlington
County. That’s where I was when the Depression come. I didn’t even know of
a Depression because I was sleeping in and making, I was making $90 a month and
sleeping in.
HARDY: Good money.
FIELDS: At that time, it’s very good. That’s why I said, I didn’t, I
didn’t personally know there was a depression. And only by just knowing and
00:40:00seeing other people suffering. I didn’t lose a day.
HARDY: You got back to the city on occasion during those years, right?
FIELDS: Oh yeah, I was back in the city for good, then.
HARDY: Were you aware of the, of what was happening to other people?
FIELDS: Yes, very much aware of it, and very sympathetic about it, but there was
nothing I could do about it.
HARDY: Yeah. Can you tell me some of the conditions you saw, or some of the
things that happened to people?
FIELDS: Well, some people--some people were hungry, and they had soup lines, and
apple lines, and all of that stuff being given away. Some people were really
suffering. And uh, needy, was very much in need of everything. They were very
00:41:00much in need, food and everything else, and clothes. Serious conditions.
It’s something to remember. And to profit by, you, you know what has happened
and try to prevent it.
HARDY: Yeah.
FIELDS: Yeah. That’s the best lesson you can get from it. Don’t let it
happen again, and the government’s done pretty good about it since then.
HARDY: Yeah, I don’t think Reagan’s helped things very recently, but...
00:42:00
FIELDS: He’s trying to go back to old times. They don’t want to go back to
old times. [laughter]
HARDY: [laughter] What was, how was the city in the 1920s? How was life in the
1920s? You know, by reputation, the ‘20s were pretty good times. How about
for black people in the city, in Philadelphia?
FIELDS: Oh, fair. Here, in the ’20s it’s--people--the race business
wasn’t too strong. They was fight--the NAACP was fighting during that time.
It was increasing all the time, changing, getting better and better to what it
is now. So, in the ’20s, it wasn’t so bad. Not until that, that uh
00:43:00depression come on. That depression got everybody in the, in the
Prohibition--Wilson--Wilson told them that Prohibition was never going to stand
in a--and it didn’t, it just made a whole lot of bootleggers. [laughter]
HARDY: Yeah, you were in the food trades, right? You must have-- you have any
good prohibition stories? [laughter] Any good bootlegging stories?
FIELDS: Well, I don’t know about something, I learned how to make beer myself.
[laughter] I didn’t make no whiskey. I had two or three people give me beer
00:44:00as it--I didn’t try to live by it or nothing like that. It was just a matter
of going along with the gang.
HARDY: What can you tell me about Marcus Garvey?
FIELDS: I didn’t get into that--I didn’t get into that cult, I just knew it
was around; I never did join up in it. So many people did, but I never did take
a--it’s like uh, I never did believe in following everything you hear and see.
If you don’t see nothing in it, don’t take it up. So, I just, I just
00:45:00didn’t bother with them kind of things.
HARDY: I guess he was a pretty powerful force at that time.
FIELDS: Well, at that time, he had pretty good force. I don’t know why I--how
I feel that he didn’t, he had success though, he got his gang together and
started away with them, and I don’t know what happened to it.
HARDY: Well, I guess the ships he bought never worked out.
FIELDS: Yeah.
HARDY: The Black Star line.
FIELDS: Maybe he didn’t have the people to run the ship or something.
There’s so much to know, you know, to run the ships and things.
HARDY: And then the government got him up on charges, and put him in jail, and
deported him.
FIELDS: Yeah, that’s the--all of that has to be taken care of.
HARDY: But he must’ve represented, or from what I’ve heard, he must’ve
represented something that...
FIELDS: Well, he had a good representation and a good lineup, a good line of
00:46:00people. He had a good gang of people who was following him. But I never did
get into it, I never attended any of the meetings. Because I was always busy
anyhow. I always--I didn’t have time to run down to the ship down there, and
see the people and all of that kind of stuff.
HARDY: Do you have any friends who became Garveyites, followers, or...
FIELDS: Not that I-- Not personally. I didn’t have no personal friends in it.
HARDY: How about, what was-- just to sort of finish that. What was the
reputation of people who did become followers of Marcus Garvey? Was there any
type of person?
FIELDS: They were mixed, as far as I knew. So, you’d get, you’d find some
of them was--you’d find some educated people in those guilds. You’d find,
00:47:00just like anything, you’ll find some educated people in most anything, because
the man get hold of them to help him out sometimes. They can pull. And, uh,
so, that gave him a good mix. They could pull the weaker people in. It takes,
like, the street men. They’re supposed to be smart, you know? [laughter]
Well, then you’d get a gang of people to follow.
HARDY: Do you remember Amos Scott?
FIELDS: They were the kind of people that those leaders get ahold of. That’s
00:48:00how they get into it.
HARDY: You remember Amos Scott?
FIELDS: Yeah.
HARDY: What can you tell me about Amos Scott?
FIELDS: Well, I’ll tell you, I don’t know too much personally about him, I
just knew him, I used to eat down at his hotel. I used to eat sometimes at his
restaurants, and I used to live across the street from him. He wasn’t there
when I lived down there, I lived at 1203 Pine Street for a while. And he had
moved to Christian Street at that time. He had a nice family, and he was a nice
fellow. All I knew, just was very important, and an important man, and a bright man.
00:49:00
HARDY: Yeah, I guess he was the political leader--
FIELDS: Yeah.
HARDY:--during that night when you arrived, those were...
FIELDS: Yeah, he had to be to get to where he was.
HARDY: Were you a voting man> Did you vote when you, uh, came to Philadelphia?
FIELDS: Yeah, I’ve always voted. I voted all my life, wherever I registered.
HARDY: Philadelphia or Democrat? In the 19-teens and ’20s?
FIELDS: I was a Democrat, I tell you, I voted Republican. I was over to this
Dr. Newcomb, he was a Republican, and uh, and he was the head of the
sanitarium. And that’s the last Republican ticket I ever voted for.
HARDY: When was that?
FIELDS: That was in, under uh, President--wait a minute, I can’t think of his
00:50:00name, now. I think he died, too.
HARDY: Is this before Roosevelt’s time? After Roosevelt?
FIELDS: Yeah, before Roosevelt?
HARDY: Hoover? Harding? Coolidge?
FIELDS: Harding! That’s it.
HARDY: Harding. The last Republican you voted for?
FIELDS: That’s all, that’s the last, that’s the last Republican ticket I
ever voted for. Ever since that, I’ve been a Democrat.
HARDY: What made you change your vote?
FIELDS: I didn’t like the politics. I didn’t like the Republican regime,
and I don’t like it yet.
HARDY: What were they doing back then that made you, you know, switch from
Lincoln’s party to...
FIELDS: Well, they make you poor and keep you poor. [laughter] They look out
for the upper people all the time. It’s the little fellow, they keep him
00:51:00little. [laughter] That’s the way I see the Republican Party, it’s still
that way.
HARDY: So uh, I’m interested in how people change their political affiliations
back there. Did you change on a local level, or during a presidential election?
How did that take place? How did you – you know, how did your...
FIELDS: Oh, I don’t know, I guess I changed in the next Republican--the next
presidential election, I guess, was--because after I left the sanitarium, I
didn’t bother no more. I just joined the Democratic Party and stayed with it,
and been with it ever since.
HARDY: So, you voted for Al Smith in ’28?
FIELDS: Yeah.
HARDY: Remember Al Smith?
00:52:00
FIELDS: I think he was the first president I voted for as a Democrat.
HARDY: That, that was pretty controversial back then, for people to switch over
to the Democratic Party.
FIELDS: Yeah.
HARDY: Did you ever get any pressure or influence to vote the...
FIELDS: Well, I was never a politician, I was mostly on my own. I was
never--got into politics, and I don’t think I ever received a dime from nobody
about elections.
HARDY: That was the next thing I was going to ask you, because I know a lot of
the men coming up from the South...
FIELDS: Oh, they paid off in politics, you know, it-- A lot of people...
HARDY: But you never got offered a--you know, whatever to go down and...
FIELDS: No, because I never got any--I never attended political meetings.
HARDY: Yeah.
FIELDS: I guess that’s the reason.
HARDY: I heard they used to, you know, just go door-to-door and bring the vote out.
00:53:00
FIELDS: Yeah, something, and they had these meetings people go to them and get
up there to get that--give $0.50 or a $1.00, whatever it was. But I never did
bother. I just always was independent. I just made too much of, I don’t
know. [laughter] I just voted like I wanted to--I feel like I wanted to do what
I wanted to do.
HARDY: When you uh, when you got through with work, what did you do during your
leisure time? Were you a churchman, or did you like to go to the clubs?
FIELDS: I’ve been a churchman all my days. I’ve been a churchman all my
days. I never did no games, no kind of games much. Never was a man for games
much. I always had some kind of entertainment otherwise. I’ve danced, I
liked music. It was musical groups and things like that. I’ve been in
00:54:00several different musical groups, men’s choruses and things, but always under
the church.
HARDY: Associated with the church. What church did you... How did you select a
church when you first came up to Philadelphia?
FIELDS: The churches, in the beginning--, I finally found this CME church, which
I was born in, but they changed their--they are the United now, you know?
That’s the same organization. And ah, after I settled in the city I just
joined the church I’m in now.
HARDY: Which is that?
FIELDS: Mount Olive AME Church. It’s Mount Olive down there on Clifton
00:55:00Street. It’s Mount Olive AME church. That’s when I started in AME, in
1920, I think it was.
HARDY: Nineteen-twenty. Did they have any activities, or any classes for the
people up from the South, to help them learn city ways, or to adjust to life in
the city?
FIELDS: Well, the churches have always had some kind of class if you stick with
the church, you find some kind of classes in the way of training, because they
always got--they’ve got to redeem, they’ve got to carry, they’ve got a
discipline that they go by for the young people, and the old people, and all.
And it’s always something to learn by being a member of the church.
00:56:00
HARDY: Right. The thing I’m interested in is, you know, during this period,
the 19-teens, early ’20s, you have all of these people coming up from the
South, many of them from rural districts...
FIELDS: Well, you walk into it.
HARDY: Little education, um, not acquainted with city ways.
FIELDS: You get into it, because the churches were already organized, you know.
HARDY: Right. And I know that places like Tindley Temple would get a lot of the
Southerners joining.
FIELDS: Yeah, well, all of the churches got some.
HARDY: Yeah. And then, you know, they had--I’m wondering in what ways the
churches helped to, helped these people to adjust to life in the city, because a
lot of people had problems.
FIELDS: Well, they did, they offer them whatever they--wherever they needed,
whatever they could help, the church has been dutiful. They always had
something for you to do, or something to offer you.
HARDY: Were there any conflicts between the older Philadelphians and the new Southerners?
00:57:00
FIELDS: Not necess-, no. No, the older Philadelphians were slow. [laughter]
HARDY: Slow, how’s that?
FIELDS: Uh--[long pause] Well, it’s always been room for learning if you get
into it. If you are slothful about taking a hold to the works, it’s up to
you. So, that’s about--brings me pretty well up to the line there. [laughter]
00:58:00
HARDY: OK. Well...
FIELDS: I’ve grown from time to time in different positions and things. And
different organizations and things.
HARDY: Yeah? Are you a member of Elks, Shriners, one of those groups?
FIELDS: I was a member of the Elks for some time, but I’m not now. I’ve
joined Quaker City, they used to be around here, where they used to be around
here, when they was organized. And then I joined here before I joined the
Masonic. I joined here in ’40, I joined Masonic in ’43. And I joined
00:59:00American Woodmen before I left Texas. That’s a retirement organization.
HARDY: Which was that?
FIELDS: American Woodmen.
HARDY: Now, when you came to Philadelphia, did you continue with American Woodmen?
FIELDS: Oh yes, still with it. [laughter]
HARDY: So, that’s a--when you came up...
FIELDS: I’m the oldest member in it.
HARDY: Oh, really?
FIELDS: At their convention, I talked to the convention, the quadrennial
session. I was there two years ago, now, the last one. In Denver.
HARDY: Huh. Were they able to offer you any support when you came up from Texas
to Philadelphia, because I know...
FIELDS: Hmm?
HARDY: Were they able to give you any support or help when you came to Philadelphia?
FIELDS: No, I didn’t even ask for any. They came here right after I did,
01:00:00about the same time. They used to have-- you know, the representative of the
organization. And when I came back from--after the war, I met the deputy here.
And I was here time enough to help him set up his first camp here. And I’d
just gone on.
HARDY: All right.
FIELDS: And I’ve done everything that we--organizing, I organized the
departments, and head of a camp, as a councilor, we just had a council meeting
last Saturday.
HARDY: Oh, isn’t that something, then. I’ll tell you what, I should
probably let you go now.
FIELDS: Hmm?
HARDY: I should probably let you go now, I kept you long enough.
01:01:00
FIELDS: [laughter]
HARDY: But if you agree, maybe in a couple...
END OF AUDIO FILE
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