Interview with Fannie Hutchinson, June 25, 1984

CHARLIE HARDY: So we have the record on, on your name on the record, um, can you tell me your name and your age, approximate age?

FANNIE HUTCHISON: M – my name now?

HARDY: Yeah.

HUTCHISON: My name is Fannie Hutchison, and my age is 79.

HARDY: And you come from Virginia?

HUTCHISON: I came from Virginia.

HARDY: Hm. Can you tell me a bit about your family?

HUTCHISON: Well, they’re, uh --it was 16 children. And uh, We used to work sharecrop, and then later years, we had our own, uh, farm. We ha – we – we used to rent a farm and work the farm there, and as each person grew up, they – they went separate ways, and some got married, and, and uh, for me, my uncle came to visit my mother, and he had one daughter, one son, and he said he wanted me to come to be a sister to his daughter. So then I came here in 1926 00:01:00and lived with my uncle, and uh, his daughter and son, and all of them at, uh, 4232 Wallace Street. And uh, before I came here, I used to work at a candy factory that, uh, made candy in Virginia, and also worked at the Swanks Hotel - I was a waitress there. And then I did some domestic work before I came here.

HARDY: Huh, So um, you – you came from big family then, one of 16 children.

HUTCHISON: Yep, 16 children.

HARDY: How – how long did you –you stay home before you had to start work to help out?

HUTCHISON: When I started to work to help out, I was 13.

HARDY: Thirteen?

HUTCHISON: And my father got sick and my brother-- uh, he had been in the First World War, and his mind was bad, so he couldn’t work. So o – everyone was 00:02:00big enough to work, so I used to go and babysit for people -- to help out, to make, uh, money for the oth- to help with these smaller children.

HARDY: Did you ever do live-in work in the South?

HUTCHISON: Live-in?

HARDY: Yeah.

HUTCHISON: Yeah, I used to live--that’s what I said.

HARDY: Oh, it was live-in.

HUTCHISON: This was live-in. Yeah, that’s what I did. I did work there, you know, whatever to be done, and I lived there until I got oh, I guess – I guess about 18, 18 or 19, then I, I uh, started--I did a little of this other work until I come here, cause when I come here, I was just 21.

HARDY: Right. Can you tell me a little bit about, um, doing the – the live-in work in the South, what that was like?

HUTCHISON: It was just like here, that you--the only thing about it, they didn’t have any washing machine. You had to wash on a board, you know, and of 00:03:00course they didn’t have mops--of course like when I came to Philadelphia, they had um--you’d wash, scrub bucket and a mop. I mean, scrub bucket and a rag, and a pad on your knees or some paper. So that’s the only way it was there, and you did just same as you did here. And I – of course, there was plenty of food for you to eat there, and you had a nice bed, and room for you to sleep in.

HARDY: What did you think of that sort of work when you were doing it?

HUTCHISON: Well, I didn’t mind it at all, because the only thought was on my mind, to help my mom, to help th-the other children. Course, I used to cry a lot to go back home to be with the family, but I know this was to help, so then I stayed there and uh, did that work so that I could give my mother a little, you know, what I made, because she wasn’t making much anyway.

HARDY: Right. What – what did you make? Do you remember?

HUTCHISON: I was making--yeah. I was making about $3 a week.

HARDY: A week?

HUTCHISON: Yeah. I made about $3 a week and room and board.

HARDY: And how much of that did you keep, and how much did you – did you send home?

HUTCHISON: Well, well, I would give most of it to my mother, because I – I really didn’t need anything, because I was eating and sleeping there, and I--you know, then you could buy a dress for a dollar, nice dress for a dollar, and a pair of shoes for a dollar and a half or something. And then she was giving me different little things, you know, that she had that I could use.

HARDY: Hm. And you say you started this at the age of 13?

HUTCHISON: Thirteen.

HARDY: Did you – What – what did you do about your schooling then?

HUTCHISON: Well, I – I didn’t go. I finished-- well I was going to school, I had gone as far as I could go to school, cause uh, I--the teacher was only an eighth grade teacher. So I had finished the eighth grade. So from January to 00:05:00May, I taught school, first, second and third grade. I – I did. And – and –

HARDY: And how old were you?

HUTCHISON: Thirteen.

HARDY: A – at the age of 13 you were teaching school?

HUTCHISON: Age of 13. I taught first, second, and third grade, from January to May, because that was the time when school closed. Yeah. When I go home now, I see some of the – the people that, you know, that I taught, and they said to me, “Yeah, you’re our old teacher.” [laughter] See wha – I, what – what I wanted to do, until my father got sick, I was gonna come to Petersburg and then finish up so I could finish high school, but I didn’t do that. I came here, and I went to school for a while here, down at 16th and Wharton. I was trying to finish there now, cause I wanted to take a business course. But my uncle was afraid, he said, “So many girls will be missing.” That time they 00:06:00would--girls would go out and never come back, and never know what happened to them, so he said I couldn’t go because it was too far. That’s down uh, uh 16th and Wharton.

HARDY: You mean he was afraid of your going out to evening school--

HUTCHISON: Yeah.

HARDY: --because something might happen to you?

HUTCHISON: Ye – Yeah. See, it was evening school cause I worked in the day. Yup.

HARDY: Hm, Was that – was that common for – for a young girl like yourself, age of – of 13 to be teaching--

HUTCHISON: I – What the teacher tell me--the teacher that was my teacher, she said she wanted me to do these three classes, and so because she didn’t have anything else to offer me, because she went to summer school every year so she could finish. See, she could teach up to the eighth grade, then after that, each summer she’d go--then the next year she’d come, maybe she could teach to the ninth grade, until she got to be able to finish high school herself. And so 00:07:00I uh, did that. Because when I went, when I first went to school for my sisters and all, I never woul – I knew all the alphabets, and I knowed all of the – the numbers from one to 100 and everything, and that was, like, before my father was old. And s – and from then on, I just--she kept going on.

HARDY: How many children did you have in your class?

HUTCHISON: Oh, I had maybe five or six.

HARDY: Oh, so it was just, uh, a small number.

HUTCHISON: Small, yeah, I didn’t have a lot, because the whole school didn’t have--you know, cause we’re just one of those, uh, one big room schools, you know, with different part-- course, altogether, uh, maybe 75, 100, or – or you know, like that, but I had th – the one the– all the – the lower ones. That was my class.

HARDY: Right. Huh, How did you get from, um, the – the service job you were 00:08:00doing to the--you say you before you came north; you’d also worked in a candy factory?

HUTCHISON: Oh, it was in – in Petersburg, so it was easy there, with trolleys and - and things that you could go, busses, you know, you could go back to town.

HARDY: Hm. Why did you leave the, um, live-in job you had?

HUTCHISON: I think the reason I left the live-in job, oh yeah, they moved from Petersburg to Richmond, that I was working with them, and they moved to Richmond. So then after that, I wor – after that I worked at tobacco factory, that’s where I work, I cause everyone there mostly worked at the tobacco factory. Brown and Williams Tobacco Factory. I worked there. And then they had a lay-off there, so then I went to work at the candy factory. And then after that, I work at this hotel, at the Swanks Hotel. I was a waitress there until my uncle 00:09:00wanted me to come here. Then, I didn’t tell her, she said if I wanted to come over on vacation, she would send me, but I didn’t tell her. I just stole away.

HARDY: What’s this?

HUTCHISON: I just stole away. I didn’t tell her that I was going. I didn’t – I just didn’t go in to work, and, uh, she was looking for me one day, and I saw--I knew her car, and I was sitting on the curb, it was kind of hot, so I laid down on the ground before she passed me, [laughter] so she wouldn’t see me, cause she didn’t want me to quit. Yeah.

HARDY: This is at the, uh, hotel you were working at.

HUTCHISON: At the hotel, mm-hmm. Cause I had to be the work at six o’clock -- It was a very good job, because I had to be the work at six o’clock before the, uh, uh, factory men would come for breakfast. I had to s – serve breakfast. And then after breakfast, you straighten up, and uh, and get the lunch, and after lunch, you go for a rest until it’s dinnertime. So you had 00:10:00– she had all the maids come with us to ho – to the house they had That, You take your bath, and – and rest yourself until the time get to up, you’d be fresh for dinner. Yeah.

HARDY: Hm. So how did ya - how’d you then make your decision to come to Philadelphia? Just too young?

HUTCHISON: I just--I wanted to come someplace. I wanted to leave the South. I just wanted to see if there was some other part of the world. And after my uncle said do that--cause before that, I was real small then, maybe eight, nine years old, and was a white family visiting from Virginia--from New York, and I uh, used to go play with the children, and the lady says to me, “You can come go to New York with me.” So I didn’t ask my mother. I just went up and packed my bag [laughter] to go. And so then my – my – I told my mother, “I’m going to New York.” She said, “How you going to New York?” And I forgot 00:11:00what the lady’s name, but I said, “Ms. So-and-so. She’s not gonna go with her children.” “She’s not your mother. You have [laughter] to tell me.” That – And so--I – I just wanted--I – I always thought there was another part of the world more than, you know, just Virginia, and I wanted to see what it was like. So that’s why. And it was no hard decision for me to come away, because I uh--yeah. I want to get away.

HARDY: So the reasons you came weren’t to really for--were more just to see what there was--

HUTCHISON: Oh, When I came here mostly was to be a sister to my uncle’s daughter. That’s why I really came. That woul – That was my aim to come here, uh, but I just wanted to - to see some other place anyway. Well, I wanted to come--because I wasn’t supposed to stay here. I was supposed to come here 00:12:00to visit for a couple of weeks and see if I like it, and go back and live with my mother’s brother in Norfolk, Virginia. But I never went back. So I’ve been here for 57 years.

HARDY: Long time. [laughing]

HUTCHISON: Yeah I’ve been down in the church for all – ever since I been here. Yup.

HARDY: Huh. Did you have any um, expectations of you know, what life was going to be like in Philadelphia before you came?

HUTCHISON: No, no.

HARDY: Any hopes or dreams about what you’d do when you got here?

HUTCHISON: No. I just – I just came to see--because with my aunt to me--when I got here, I said , have to be some place more than Lancaster Avenue. Whether it was a store [mon?] or with--the dress store you’d go in – got to go --wanted to go that store over there, and hat store, whatever. So one day, I – I always did this. I make up my mind, I just go. So I came out, I got Number 10, and went 00:13:00all the way down to, uh, Second and Market. I got Number 10, and I rode all the way down, I got off there on Second, I walked all up Market Street, I got a job at this here, uh, shirt factory pressing shirts, and, uh, I came home that afternoon, my uncle says, “Where you been?” I said, “I went downtown and got a job.” He said, “Where?” I said, “Seventh and --Seven North Seventh Street,” and uh, so he said, “Well, you don’t have a job, cause you won’t be able to go back.” So I never went back for my pay. I only worked a half a day. [laughter] cause he said it was too far for me to go. But that’s the way I – I always just wanted to find and see what the things was like.

HARDY: So you’re an independent sort of person? [laughing]

HUTCHISON: I don’t know what you call it, but--I mean, that’s the way I did, because uh, that – I always figured that if someone else is out there, something is different than what I’m doing here. Like I um--my brother died, and when my brother died, he had never been married, and uh, he gave his uh--his estate went to us, and so the money they got, everyone was saying, “What you going to do with this?” I said, “I know what I’m gonna do, because I’m going to buy me a home.” So I bought a home. And the board of education, uh, bought the home because they wanted to make the Hammond School bigger. So I took that money that I had put in there, and I got another home on, uh, 534 North 56th Street, and it was a big eight-room house, and I was getting older, and I had people live there. And you know, sometime people do, and sometime they 00:15:00don’t. So I decided to sell the house. I was gonna move in, in Shepard’s Village, but the lady lived here is a friend of mine. We went together in church about 47 years, and I was sitting by her. She – They announced that uh, the apartment was three-room bedroom apartment for rent, and she said, “That’s my apartment.” So I said, “Well, if my house be sold in that time, we’ll go to uh,”--I said, “We’ll be together until death do us part.” [laughter] So really it happened that way. I put the house up for sale the ninth of August, and it was sold the 23rd of September. And I moved in here the 21st of December.

HARDY: So you had a good arrangement then?

HUTCHISON: Yeah, mm-hmm.

HARDY: Hmm, what – What did your uncle do?

HUTCHISON: My uncle worked for uh uh--at that time, we call PRT [Philadelphia Rapid Transit Company], which is now SEPTA. He made, uh, uh, what do you call, 00:16:00like, he made designs for the El post. You know the big El post that – that holds the--those big posts that goes to the ground, I, uh, I don’t know what you call them, but that’s what he did.

HARDY: He made designs for them?

HUTCHISON: Yeah.

HARDY: You mean he was – he was like an, uh draftsman or an engineer?

HUTCHISON: Yeah. Yeah.

HARDY: So he was an educated--

HUTCHISON: There was like electrician and engineer--he – he made designs for this. Uh.

HARDY: So he was an educated man, then. He had, uh--

HUTCHISON: Not really. He was uh, you know, just--I don’t know. Tha – that – Those times, I think people just was gifted from birth to do these things, and uh, that’s what he used to do. Then later years he was a, um, what do you call it, watchman until he retired. He used to do that.

HARDY: Now I guess the, uh, the uh, PRT was one of the major employers of black men back then. From what I knew, most of them were just, you know, laborers building – building the tracks and keeping the tracks in repair.

HUTCHISON: Well he had, he had some- –design, make those things, and uh, and then this – PRT would be, um, on – on weekend, you could take your whole family on the busses. You know, you – one fare. You pay one fare, and then you could take your family on – on wherever you wanted to go with them.

HARDY: That was a special thing for employees of the uh--

HUTCHISON: Yeah, mm-hmm. Because then that was uh, the fares then was, what, 7.5 cent. Yeah, two for 15. [laughter] That’s right, two for – two for 15.

HARDY: Yeah, and I guess the same time, a lot of people walked then to save the money, right?

HUTCHISON: That’s right, because there wasn’t any money. Now is, I mean, 00:18:00when I came to Philadelphia, that uh, then you would--well the best meats would be, like, 39 or 40 cent a pound, and – and 25 cent a pound. Like we could, I know a store where my aunt use to send me would get three pounds of hamburger for a quarter.

HARDY: Right.

HUTCHISON: Three pounds of fish for a quarter. That was in the ‘20s.

HARDY: Hm. Now, when you arrived in the city, you had worked in St. Petersburg, so in uh--

HUTCHISON: In Petersburg.

HARDY: I mean Petersburg. Right, St. Petersburg is in Florida. Petersburg is in Virginia. You’d worked in Petersburg, so you had some experience living in a city.

HUTCHISON: Right.

HARDY: Did you have any problems adjusting to Philadelphia? You know, the size of it and all the people –

HUTCHISON: No, because, see, when I got to Philadelphia, uh, I had already--I – I missed the train, but it was a man on there that I was sitting by, that I 00:19:00didn’t know him, and I find out he was a minister, and he had a home for younger girls that he said that he--and uh, when I missed the train, well, he says, “Don’t worry. I’m on my way to Chicago, and you stay with me.” So he took me to lunch and waited, and when I got to 30th Street Station, he gave me his card, told me if I didn’t like it, to come there, and I could live there.

HARDY: To go out to Chicago.

HUTCHISON: Mm-hmm. And I could live – I could live there with these girls and finish my schooling, and he said the only thing they have--they didn’t have to pay. The only thing you have to do is keep the place clean. And uh, so – uh, and he says to me, “And when you get to Philadelphia and get a job, the first thing you do is buy a good piece of jewelry,” and uh, he said, “You’ll 00:20:00never be broke.” But I couldn’t understand why you’d never be broke if you had a good piece of jewelry. But later I found out that you could use for--like pawn it, you know, or something like that, but that’s what he tell me. And uh, then when I came here, it was West Philadelphia Station on 32nd Street, then Broad Street Station, and off of it. So, there was my uncle, his son, and a fellow that lived in his house, that was at each station so that I wouldn’t get lost anywhere. So when I got to 30th Street Station, they paged there for me, 32nd Street Station, and then they found me there. And the fellow that I met – that met me at the station, and the next year, we got married. We – We was mar – we was married about four and a half years because we separated and divorced, and I – I got married again, and he did too.

HARDY: When?

HUTCHISON: I said he – Oh, we w – would have been sep--we only stayed together about four and a half years.

HARDY: You said you were married again?

HUTCHISON: Yeah.

HARDY: When? When were you married?

HUTCHISON: In ’34.

HARDY: In ’34.

HUTCHISON: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

HARDY: Had – had you gotten any other advice, or been given any warnings before you came to Philadelphia? You said this – this one minister from Chicago gave you the advice on keeping the jewelry. Any other--from your parents or from friends?

HUTCHISON: No, because my mother, when I said I was going to go, she didn’t want me to go. I mean, I go – went in to tell her that I was going, and she didn’t want me to go. Anybody didn’t – nobody wanted me to leave, because they didn’t know where I was going, and uh--

HARDY: Well, they knew you were going to your uncle’s, right?

HUTCHISON: Yeah, they knew I was going to my uncle, but they just figured, well, she going to my uncle, she may just go wild, you know, they was having all kind of thoughts about you, but I told my--I feel that I was able to take care of myself. And when I went into the room to tell my mother that I was going, she 00:22:00just covered up her head and never said anything to me. But I would write to her all the time. And when I make a little money, I would give her, and uh, every 30th of May, after I grew up--and uh, well, I told her, when I get grown, anything that she didn’t have before, I would buy it for her, and so I did… everything that she – I bought everything I could think of, because then these--like the reclining chairs. During the war, they was made like with boards, and you could move a board back. So I bought her that – bought her the chair, then the house where they was living in Petersburg didn’t have electric, so I bought uh--they put electric and they put a bathroom in there. So I bought all electric appliance, like the toasters and the coffee pot and waffle irons, and everything – everything. Everything that uh, I thought that 00:23:00she would be happy--that she didn’t have. So the last thing she said she didn’t have was a watch, and I uh, I bought her a watch in 1946. I uh, I – I had it engraved. She was born in 18-- – she – she was born in 1876, and I had it engraved, and I gave it to her in 1946. Yup. So I – I – I always uh--but I telled her on so much about they didn’t believe--they didn’t--um, people here thought I was a only child, cause they never hear me say anything about anybody, but just my mother. And uh, I just thought--when she died, I had ordered two busses to take peop - people down to Virginia for her birthday. And once I was getting ready to go, I had a lot of people to go, and the railroad 00:24:00went on strike. So I hired five busses, five cars, [laughing] five cars and the people took them down to my mother’s birthday.

HARDY: Well Who were you – who were you bringing down from up here?

HUTCHISON: Anybody that wanted to go, to meet – to – to come to see my mother.

HARDY: Now you had 13 – you had 12 brothers and sisters. Wait, no, you said you were one of 16 children.

HUTCHISON: Yeah. It was eight girls and eight boys.

HARDY: So you had 15 brothers and sisters. Um, did any of them come up to the – to the city? What – what became of – did they sta - I’m interested in how many of them also came north. Not a one?

HUTCHISON: Just me.

HARDY: Just you, huh?

HUTCHISON: I had one sister, she went to a place I never-- hear –ah-- sh - she--she said the name of the place, she went to Dover Queen, Pennsylvania, somewhere, and she stayed there, and uh, she got married there, and her husband died, and she came back home. She had two sons – w - uh. She died in 1982.

HARDY: So none of them never sent you a letter or rang you up on the phone and said they were interested in coming up, could you put them up or, uh?

HUTCHISON: Yeah, oh I brought some of the grandchildren. I had some of them here. Now, I have a – a niece on Chestnut Street, I brought her here. I have another niece uh, on 16th Street that I brought here. My brother died in 1949, and uh, he had eight children, so I taken uh-- it one’s daughter named Francis, the one that live on Chestnut Street, so she’s like 15 years old, 15, 16, so I had her up here that summer before she had to go back to school. So when I, uh, I had a little dress shop. I went in town one day, and I come back, some boy was in the store, and he was buttoning up her blouse. I said, “Well, 00:26:00you go and make back to your mother.” I said - [laughter] [ I was afraid what-- I don’t want no trouble. So I sent right back to her, and then she came back. Later years, she and uh, she and her husband had a misunderstanding, and she came back to me again. So then when she came back, she brought two children. And uh, When she brought the two children, I uh, I let her stay, and I fixed everything so she never say about her husband. So one day I said to her, “You didn’t tell me why you came or what happened.” I said, “But it’s uh, the children need two parents.” And I said, “If you don’t tell me anything, I’ll – I can go back to Virginia and find out what happened.” So um, that Sunday, he call, and uh, so sh – she says that he wanted to speak to them, 00:27:00[?], and I talk to them, and I said, “Well, how did you call here?” He said, “Oh, I just dreamed about them, and – and I called.” I told him, I said, “You get a big dream, because my phone is unlisted.” An - [laughter] how could you dream an unlisted--. So then she told me later, she said, “I know how.” She knew how I am, and uh, she called him on Saturday, and told him that he – then I sent for him, and he’s here, and they had three or four more children. They b – they bought their home and all in 1600 block of Chestnut Street.

HARDY: Hm. Now, [clears throat] you say when a--wait a moment,, you said that when you were uh, when you were going to come up North, your mother was afraid you might go wild, or...?

HUTCHISON: I think she did because you know how people think with the children. Well, if they’re from your mother, you just--so, she j – she just didn’t 00:28:00want me to go, so she didn’t – she didn’t say anything to me.

HARDY: Huh, Was – was there any association back then, you know of uh, or stories about young women or young men going to the city and – and you know, getting led astray, or being--

HUTCHISON: Not as I know of.

HARDY: No. I heard one story from a woman who talked about uh, when she’d come from, I guess, North Carolina, been warned, you know, when you go up, stay close to the church, don’t go out with people you don’t know--

HUTCHISON: Oh, well, they all tell you that. You have to be careful because people would--would – then you used to call them--what did you used to call them? Witch doctors or something, they used to say would – would take the girls away, uh, and then it would uh, tell you used to kill the girls and take them to hospital and experiment on them, um, uh, student doctors, that’s what they used to call them. That’s – Things like that, they told you, you know.

HARDY: You did hear that story.

HUTCHISON: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That’s – that’s w – that’s why my uncle 00:29:00did – was afraid, because I’d known the two or three girls that went away, right in Philadelphia, didn’t come--nobody found them. Because I would uh, always afraid, you know, the grates in the street? And they used to say that if you walk on this, it would go down, you – nobody would never see you. And I wouldn’t walk-- I’d even now, I don’t feel like right walking over the grates in the street. That’s it. Yeah. Yeah. I was warned of that. That, they always said, that you know, people would lead you astray, but I always uh, I always figured I could take care of myself.

HARDY: And this was before you came to Philadelphia then?

HUTCHISON: Yeah. Yeah. Yup. I was warned about that, things would happen, and people would tell you things, and they wouldn’t mean – would lead you astray, you know, and you had to be careful, and do it a - wher--you know, do what you’re supposed to do with the – where you was going. I was you know, 00:30:00tell me to obey my uncle and aunt, where they, where they, you know, where they tell me to do, because I--wasn’t anything we’d do but stay at the house, and help clean the house, and cook. Cause I wanted to cook, and uh, my aunt said, “You don’t know how to cook.” So I one day, I said, “Let me cook.” Because she went to work. And from that day on, I was the cook. So I cooked the dinner that day, because we all had to learn to cook, because when I was in – in the country, they had, like, old-fashioned things was high up, cause for me to get the dishes out to set the table, I had to get up in a chair, get all the things was put up high.

HARDY: Huh, now they – So you had heard those stories about the grates, then?

HUTCHISON: Yeah.

HARDY: And the being, you know, possibly being taken for medical experiments.

HUTCHISON: That’s right.

HARDY: Now, was that, was that a belief that was widely held among people in the city?

HUTCHISON: I don’t know.

HARDY: Just – But your uncle didn’t want you to go down to the school in Wharton Street, because--

HUTCHISON: My uncle – My uncle didn’t want me to go any place, cause he’s always afraid that something was going to happen to me, and I said nothing going to happen, because he didn’t want me to go to school, he didn’t want me to go down there to the job. He said that he made enough money that he could take care of us. But I wanted to work to take care of myself.

HARDY: So how did you finally get a job then?

HUTCHISON: Well uh--

HARDY: Or did you get married first?

HUTCHISON: No. Um--A lady that lived the next street, we lived on – we lived on Wallace Street, and she lived on Brooklyn Street, and the name is Mrs. Jenny Boyd, and it was a laundry, called the New Way Laundry, 4808 Aspen Street, and she take me up there to get me job, and I went up there, and it was the heat. I never was used to work--

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HUTCHISON: Then, uh, I star – started work on the hanger, and I would uh, I would get sick all the time from the heat. So the boss says, “If you have guts enough to keep coming back, we’ll keep you.” [laughing] So – so then I got used to it, and I was uh, a head sorter for the sorting department, and I went from that to uh, uh--I was floor lady for hand ironer, and from there, I worked in the main office to work with the girl that did – did the payout.

HARDY: This was a black owned and run business?

HUTCHISON: No.

HARDY: This was a white business?

HUTCHISON: White business. Everywhere I ever worked, I – I never asked for anything, but I just--the people just seen how I work, and I would just advance 00:33:00from thing to another. Yeah. No, this was all-white business. Mm-hmm. Yup.

HARDY: Huh, So you stayed with them for – for quite a while?

HUTCHISON: Oh, I stayed with them; I stayed with them until they ran out of business there. The a - The man that owned the place uh, he didn’t pay the union or something, but I know they, uh, sold him out. They sold him out. He didn’t have anything, so then we, we just went, you know, anywhere we found a job. I don’t know what I did--what did I do then? I don’t know. That time –

HARDY: So how many years were – were you with them? I’m trying to, you know, get the – my chronology straight here.

HUTCHISON: Oh, for--mm, I don’t know. I was there from about 1927and--I don’t know.

HARDY: A couple of years?

HUTCHISON: More than that. Maybe five or six years or more.

HARDY: Yeah into the Depression and into the ’30s.

HUTCHISON: Yeah we – yeah. About the end of the ’30s, cause in – in the ’40s I went to work to Horn & Hardarts.

HARDY: Right. Uhm.

HUTCHISON: And most of the time--see I had uh - uh, in the ’40s, I had my own business for 10 year, 15 years I had my own business. I had a retail groceries and a luncheonette.

HARDY: Oh, where was that?

HUTCHISON: Forty-six--4629 Haverford Avenue, where those houses are all torn down now. Yeah. See, I had my little business there, and then I had a – a house I was buying up the street, which I lost, and I had a house rented out, and made into an apartment.

HARDY: How’d you get the capital to um, go into business for yourself?

HUTCHISON: I don’t know. I just – I just had a little money.

HARDY: You Able to save it up and--

HUTCHISON: Save a little, then I borrowed so – a little from a loan company and paid them back, and I, that’s – that’s - that’s it.

HARDY: Able to make a go of it.

HUTCHISON: That’s right. I just take a little something, and – and just continue to work, work until I uh,--my, uh, there’s uh – my second husband that uh, we couldn’t make it, cause he drank a lot. So I gave that up, and I just worked from then on, on my own.

HARDY: Huh, Was your first husband a Southerner?

HUTCHISON: Hmm?

HARDY: Was – was your first husband from the South, or was he--

HUTCHISON: He’s from Maryland.

HARDY: He was from Maryland.

HUTCHISON: Baltimore. My second husband was from Addison, South Carolina.

HARDY: Huh, So they both come up from the South--

HUTCHISON: Yeah.

HARDY: --like yourself. Hm. Did you find that um, that people from the – who came up from the South tended to stay together more than, you know, uh, associate with native-born Philadelphian?

HUTCHISON: I don’t know other people, but I did.

HARDY: You preferred to stay with – with people from the South?

HUTCHISON: I s – No.

HARDY: Oh, you didn’t, you said?

HUTCHISON: I – No, I do not. I other people, I mean, I saw them, um but I mean, when I came here, I came to Philadelphia people, so then I met more Philadelphia people, and then some of them was already here from the South, and it was people, you know, from the South that had been here, but I didn’t discriminate myself to go with just the people from the South. So whoever I met, and if they was friendly, was people that I would like to associate with, I just got along.

HARDY: Right, so you didn’t find that people tended to, to congregate together--

HUTCHISON: No. No.

HARDY: --you know, depending upon where they came from?

HUTCHISON: I don’t think--no. I didn’t. I know I didn’t, because I know a lot of people say --well, I they – I would like to do this, because they come 00:37:00from home. This – It didn’t matter to me. If it was a nice person, and person I had a person that I had confidence, you know, or like to associate with them or something, it didn’t matter to me where they came from.

HARDY: And did – did you find at all that um--I’m interested in – in what – what became of people, what they did once they – they came to Philadelphia. Did you find that people um, would – would try and um, hide their Southernness, you know, their origins, or would try to become city people and, you know, any of--

HUTCHISON: I, I don’t think so. I – Well, the ones I know--because I--the only thing that, to me, that the Southern--the people that come from Petersburg, and the people here, there was practically--like only they just had the different accent, you know, because uh, in the South, the people that were – 00:38:00well in my family, and all the people around there, they was nice people, they was clean people, and they – they took care of their families, their children, they kept their home clean, and everything else, even though we had no modern things, but whatever we had, we used this, you know, to keep thing clean, but now even with – with my mother having all those children, we was living at like a five-room house, and we had to keep it clean, and we had nothing but plain pine floors, and we had to scrub the floor, and we – she used to make uh, out of the grease from the fat, uh, make soap, and we used this soap to wash clothes and everything with, and uh, then like we got cleanser and stuff to scrub the floor. We had sand, or ashes, and you’ve scrubbed that pine floor 00:39:00with this, and you rinsed it off until there was nothing there but a nice white clean floor.

HARDY: I guess there wasn’t any varnish on the floor--

HUTCHISON: No, it was nothing, just a plain--

HARDY: --just raw wood.

HUTCHISON: --raw pine wood, like now you see when I look at the people, they finish it now, when they call it uh--what do they call those kitchen tables? Wichita, see, well that’s just – it was floors like that, but it didn’t have any polish or anything on it. Just plain pine floors, and – but you had to keep it clean. Then when you finished washing it, my mother walk across, and if she feel any gravel or anything on her feet, you do it all over again.

HARDY: Why – why were people like that? I’ve been talking to women who did housework, they’d say you’d get down there on your knees – hands and knees with a scrub brush. They wouldn’t give you a mop, so they’d make you get down on your hands and knees--

HUTCHISON: They had no mops.

HARDY: Why did people scrub, you know, why did people scrub those--the floors so hard? Why?

HUTCHISON: -Because they want – they want them nice, clean, and stay that clean way, just like – just like that chair, that--if I don’t wash that chair off, you’d be surprised the dirt will be on that chair. Now um -

HARDY: I mean, people don’t scrub their floors like that today.

HUTCHISON: Well, they don’t – they don’t have--they got so much wax and stuff on the floor today that the floors would be ruined. Now, in my house on 56th Street, I had hardwood floors in the dining room and the living room, where twice a year I had my floors done. I had – In the spring, I had my – these rugs on the floor, and I took the rugs, had the rugs taken up and had them cleaned, and I had someone to take uh, Touch All and take all the wax off for that. Then use Future Wax, and then the rest of the summer, you didn’t put any 00:41:00water on my floor. I use End Dust, and it kept my floor. Then in the fall, you take that wax off, and then you – you wax them again, then I put my rugs down, and that’s how I kept my floors. See, because I always liked-- was – now like when I come here, everybody say, “You not going to like it. Now I have,”--I said, “I don’t work with the hardwood floors.” [laughter] But that stuff I don’t bother about anymore. I said, “Long as I can keep it clean myself, and keep things straight.” That’s – that’s the way I do it. But they uh, the – the southern people, to me, the – their --I don’t know that even now, when I went home, I went about a month ago to bury a niece, there’s – there’s no more South. [background noise] It’s – it’s jus – just like here. The homes, and the – the beautiful homes, and they’re 00:42:00all the modern equipment, air condition, and towel, f – uh, bathroom, everything. It’s no more South like it was when I was growing up.

HARDY: Yeah. That seems to – Everyone seems to say that.

HUTCHISON: Yeah. That – It is. Because my-- now my niece, when I sold my house, she said, “Come live with me.” Her husband died, and her daughters married, and her husband’s in sh-- something high in the service. He works in Washington, I think, somewhere. Well, they live in Newport News. So she’s there, and she had this big nine-room house. So sh – you take the upstairs part, I say aren’t you glad I worked the South?

HARDY: You have no desire to go back?

HUTCHISON: Never, because I told her, I said that you go to the corner after the – the uh, dock, you can hardly see across over there where the lot--. 00:43:00[laughing] So I said no I – I never liked the country. Never, never liked the country. And I didn’t know anyplace else to go. I did not like the country. Never did. So I – I will visit, but I say when the sun go down, so do I. [laughter] I’ll be caught.

HARDY: Yeah. Now um, you say you joined Mount Olivet right – right after you came to the city?

HUTCHISON: I joined Mount Olivet in June, 1926.

HARDY: Was that before or a--that was right about the time that Marshall Shepard, Reverend Shepard Senior --

HUTCHISON: That was before he came. Reverend Shepard Senior came in October of the same year, and when he came, uh, Mrs. Uh, Amy Stone, she’s uh, not here, but her and I was scrubbing the floor, just like they – we did down South. Mount Olivet had nothing but bare floor. In 1926 when Revered Shepard came in 00:44:00October, the - Mrs. Stone and I was s – scrubbing the floor, and Mrs. Shepard, and she told people many time about--that I was--she met me when she came here, and I babysit Reverend Shepard Junior, and Reverend Samuel Shepard. I babysit them up on 42nd Street where they used to live up there.

HARDY: Ah ha. Hm. Now One of the things that I’m interested in is finding more about uh, Reverend Shepard Senior’s um, activities in the community during the Depression, and how he got into politics.

HUTCHISON: Well, Reverend Shepard Senior, when it really was bad, he had um, people to come, we had – there’s um--was learning people to sew, and in the basement of the church, we had the machine. They put the sewing machines there, to help the people to learn how to sew. And uh, he would uh, well, he would do 00:45:00everything, mostly, to help people in any fashion or way that he could, and then when he – when Reverend Shepard. uh, Senior wanted to go to Harrisburg to work, which I--when they had the meeting and was talking, I said that I was glad if he could go, because we didn’t have money to pay him to go. We was supposed to pay him, like uh, I wonder whether it was $50 a week or $50 a month, but we never had the money, because then we would have little dinners, or little things to try to keep up, and – and uh, now I know, uh, some girl that she was born here, but her mother, Mrs. Leah Hill, she was the lady that used to go around and beg money for to get to buy fuel so we could have heat in the church. And 00:46:00um, my aunt Lucy and them, they used to have uh--they was called--they was different one. They was the Pastor’s Aid, and they would have uh, different little things to help to raise money, to do things for, and my aunt Lucy, she would cook dinners, and uh, I would go over there and take them over to them so they would have food, because he didn’t have a job, and then afterward, and that little money he had, and had the two children and his wife, that he really barely was living, because he didn’t, you know, he didn’t have any – any meanings of doing, and I was glad.

HARDY: And so by the time he ran for uh, the state legislature, then--

HUTCHISON: Yes. I was very glad, because--

HARDY: --so your congregation wasn’t even able to pay his salary, things had gotten so bad.

HUTCHISON: No, no. That’s right. It was during the Depression that he really--that’s right. And he, uh-- cause at that time, I was Republican, cause 00:47:00the people that I was living with then, they were Republican, so I was a Republican, and I changed to Democrat to see that if I could do any way to help him, Reverend Shepard Senior.

HARDY: Why--I – I yeah, I’m interested. Why did he run as a Democrat rather than a Republican?

HUTCHISON: I don’t know. Well, I mean, why – that was just his idea of faith-- of politics. See, cause when it get to politics, I don’t know nothing about. I don’t know anything about politics.

HARDY: Did you vote when you – when you came to the city?

HUTCHISON: Yeah. I’d vote.

HARDY: And you voted Republican?

HUTCHISON: Mm-hmm. But when he – but when he said he was going to run for legislator, and he was – was a Democrat, of course was run uh--well, everybody, most of the Democrats under Roosevelt, cause the was the one that helped the black people. And they started so many different things for them, you 00:48:00know, like the welfare and the uh, the WPA program for people to work. And so everybody then figured that they help the person that helped them. So that’s why that they, everybody mostly turned uh, Democrat, because it was really a purpose, because the people didn’t have nothing, because at that time that I was working out in Wynnefield, and I worked for two families, and I made $6 a week, cause I made $3 from one family and three another, and I worked two jobs. I worked a half day one, a half time the other.

HARDY: So you’re doing housework then?

HUTCHISON: Yeah. That was right here, and that was in, uh--that’s why I said the things was very, very bad after I came to Philadelphia, cause I was disappointed with Philadelphia, because I – they say going up north, well, 00:49:00you’re figured you’re going to something great. I’m going up north where money falls from the trees. But when you get to Philadelphia, you found it was different. It was very much different, cause then, you know, when you did house work in – in Philadelphia, you wash the windows, you wash the walls, you would – you did everything. You didn’t just go in there like people going in there, and uh, and you worked from 8:00 to 4:00. I don’t mean worked from 8:00 to s – 3:00 or 2:00, from 8:00 to 4:00, from 9:00 to 5:00, you made those hours, and you was working all the time you was there, because if you – first you do the laundry. By the time the clothes was getting dry, you hang them outside. Was no washing machine. While they was getting dry, then you clean the house. And then while – there was – there wasn’t any blinds. It was just shades and windows. You wipe off the shades, you wash off the windows, inside 00:50:00and out. That was right here in Philadelphia.

HARDY: So they worked you harder up here than in the South?

HUTCHISON: That’s right.

HARDY: A lot harder?

HUTCHISON: N – Sure. Because I mean, in the South, they that uh, some of you, when you worked for--like I woul – like I said, the better kinds of people, they had carpets on the floor, and the only floor maybe that you would have to wash, uh, would be the kitchen floor and the bathroom floor. And uh, cause I - right here on s – uh, 61st and Pine, and I used to work up there, and I used to have to wipe up that uh, lady’s--all her floors. All her downstairs floor. I had to wipe them on my knees. I guess that’s why my knees hurt so bad now, from that time, that right here.

HARDY: Hm, So tell me then, what were the – the major differences in – in housework between doing it in the – in the South and then in Philadelphia?

HUTCHISON: I didn’t see any difference. I’d say because it was all the fact--

HARDY: Well, they worked you harder up here, right? So that’s one difference.

HUTCHISON: Yeah, yeah, yeah they – they did. Because I – The people – the people in the South, they really, uh, they seemed like they cared you more for you as a person, not as a, a slave to just do this, do so much of this. When if you was gonna, did have a cook, and they would have a man to work outside, and uh, then sometimes they would have maybe another job to take care of the children. They’d – they’d have three or four maids, you know. Uh, Different people to do different things. But here, I mean, if you uh – uh, you go out there to work in the house, you did everything to be done in the house. So you would--while this was being--you’d go from here to there, the whole day long.

HARDY: Huh, I’ve heard they, you know, really try and push women doing the work to get as much out of them as--

HUTCHISON: Sure.

HARDY: -- as earthly possible.

HUTCHISON: That’s it, cause we – we used to go out there, to Montgomery Avenue, and wait on the corner, and then people would tell us to come. They would give you 25 cents an hour, or give you 25 cent to come scrub their kitchen. And then some of them would tell you, “I’ll give you your lunch. if you come and scrub my kitchen.”

HARDY: No pay, just lunch.

HUTCHISON: Nope, they just give you something to eat. We used to go out there and stand on the corner.

HARDY: This is during the Depression?

HUTCHISON: Yeah.

HARDY: How many would be out there?

HUTCHISON: A whole bunch of us, until we-- that – what happened again I know? There was something happened that – that stopped us from going out there. I don’t know.

HARDY: How did you all feel about that?

HUTCHISON: Well, we didn’t have any feeling or any thoughts, we just wanted to 00:53:00get something to do, to make see what we could make to keep, you know, to live.

HARDY: Huh. You wouldn’t - wouldn’t get angry at some woman offering you pra – you know, practically nothing to go--

HUTCHISON: No, well – well, we didn’t, like when they didn’t offer you nothing much, we didn’t go. We didn’t do it.

HARDY: Huh. You didn’t feel you were being taken advantage of?

HUTCHISON: W – Well, we didn’t – we wouldn’t do it. If she said that she give you--then she, then if you ac--one would accept that, and some would say don’t do it, then maybe she’d give you more, then you would go and do it. Of course, they’d offer – there’d they offer you nothing over there. Yup. It really has been--well, from – from my experience up to now, it’s a different world altogether. Uh, cause People - people that work now, they don’t make no eight hours. They make six and a half or seven now, because the people got 00:54:00wall-to-wall carpets, even the bathroom. You go in there and wash out the bowl and the tub, maybe wipe around the towel, around the sweeper.

HARDY: And how many people wash their floors nowadays anyway, even if they’ve got hardwood floors?

HUTCHISON: Eh? No one. Nobody wash their floor. And then you would go there, and you’d put some water on someone floor, they’d almost kill you that - that you – you’re marring their floors. Because I know that I wouldn’t want anybody putting water on my floors when I had my floors.

HARDY: But back then they did, and you regularly get down on--

HUTCHISON: Well, they didn’t – they didn’t have hardwood floors. They wanted – they was just floors.

HARDY: These were just plain floors?

HUTCHISON: Plain pine floors, because anyone that had finished floor, well then, if you wiped it up, you didn’t scrub it, you just take a damp rag and just wipe it over. But uh, al – most of the people had just, just hard floors.

HARDY: Huh. Right –

HUTCHISON: And some of them –

HARDY: Now you say in the South they treated you more like a human being.

HUTCHISON: Yeah. With m – Yeah.

HARDY: And up – up in Philadelphia, it was really much more like you’re my employee, and you do what I tell you, and I’m--and uh, they - it seems that they would try and push you, then to get as much work done--

HUTCHISON: Yeah, that you do everything in one –

HARDY: As possible.

HUTCHISON: day’s time, you clean the house, and wash and iron everything else. Of course, then later years, I didn’t have--when the washing machine came out, that uh, I worked for way out in the suburbs, way out. I used to work, like, Villanova and Rosemont and all that there, but they didn’t want you to use the washing machine, so all I did was iron. I used to go--they washed and dried the clothes, string them down, and go – all I’d do is iron. Sometimes if I get finished early enough, they’d ask me-- I – then I’d mop – mop the kitchen. Or maybe I would set the table for supper. [ ]

HARDY: Right. Would you say that day work in back during the, let’s say, the 00:56:00’20s and the ’30s was – was a harder work than live-in because they – they, you know, just had you for that short amount of time, and would try and push you?

HUTCHISON: Yeah.

HARDY: Did you all ever talk about the – the differences between doing day work and live-in work?

HUTCHISON: No.

HARDY: Any friends or women who – who did that sort of--

HUTCHISON: No, because I lived-in a lot.

HARDY: You did do s--

HUTCHISON: Yeah, I lived in a lot, because uh, I uh--I because--that I didn’t like--you know, you’ve gotta – gotta get up early in the morning, and then I took your children. See, most of my job was uh, child’s care in people home. So uh, I would stay there. I worked for uh, so--who’s it? They uh – What are those people that they have um, they have a transportation--Shillman. They got air and the transportation. I used to work, stayed in there with them. I used to 00:57:00stay there all the time.

HARDY: Huh. So which did you prefer, live-in or uh, day work?

HUTCHISON: I like live-in, cause I didn’t like day work.

HARDY: Why not?

HUTCHISON: Because day work you got too much to do in one day.

HARDY: Okay.

HUTCHISON: And live-in--or if you went back in the – each day, I’d rather go each day, cause I uh--to one job. I didn’t like day work, because there was too much to do in one day. But I figured, if you’re going the whole week work, then each day you do so much. By the end of the week--cause I used to work, like, five days a week, from Monday to Friday, or you got - would work--be off one day during the week, and I didn’t work on any Sundays. I would rather work Saturday. But I wouldn’t work any Sundays.

HARDY: Right.

HUTCHISON: Only reason I would work on a Sunday is the people that had children, and they went away, and I would stay with the children. Well, these last people that I worked before I retired, I used to bring five of them to into my church -

HARDY: Huh.

HUTCHISON: and I used to take them--they had never been on a trolley car, [laughing] and I let them ride Number 10. They never knew about going to the five and dime, take them there and buy ‘em hot dogs, and bring them – take them to my apartment, and they were just um--

HARDY: A real treat for uh, Main Line children, right?

HUTCHISON: That’s right. Yeah. [laughing] Then I – I would bring them out, then I would take them back to 69th Street on P&W, and we’d go back home that way. So the mother says, if you – you want to take them, I’ll – I have the money, so when she’d go away, she’d give me the money. You have to take care of them, and that’s what I did.

HARDY: Hm. Did um, you know, in reading, There have been a couple of books written on uh, doing domestic work, housework, back during, you know, years ago, and apparently there were, you know, a number of studies and surveys done to try and find out um, what the working conditions were like, how to improve the work, um, how – how people were treated, and from some of those studies, it 00:59:00seemed that a l – a number of the women they’d spoken to back then, this is during the 19-teens and ’20s, um, some of the objections they had to doing in the live-in work was that you were never done. You know, They could – they could keep you going, they could – you could be on call all hours of the evening and night. And then there were--seemed to be a – a – a number of the women objected--one of their primary objections was to wearing uniforms, and to being calling – being called by their first name while they had to address the uh, man and woman of the house as Mr. Johnson or Mrs. Johnson, or even Mr. Jones or Mrs. Jones, whatever. Did you have any rec – recollections of your own feelings towards sorts of things?

HUTCHISON: Yeah I know. Yeah. You had – you had to--you addressed them as Mr. or Mrs. whatever, and one thing in the South, that you came in, you didn’t come in through the front door. You had to come in and go from the back door. 01:00:00And uh, you was just--you was a servant, that’s all. That – And you had the servant’s quarters, and the servant places, that what you were supposed to do. You wouldn’t associated of the people. He was Mr. Jones. Of course, with me now, it’s uh, it’s Mr. Brown or it’s Mr. Jones or who--people that I have, cause I even call different people in the church Mr. So-and-so like that, and I do it with anybody that uh, I--because I don’t know, I – I don’t think it makes so much different that – that I would call you Mr. whatever your name, and – or say--it makes no different to me to say Sam or John or what. It doesn’t matter w – to me. And I – sh – cause I always figured that my mother always said, my father always said, you respect people in this form, 01:01:00which I always did, up even to now. That uh, I have – let’s see – I have a social club, and I plan um, trips to um, different places, and when I have to call the people, I ask for Mr. So-and-so, or Ms. So-and-so. To who I’m dealing with? And it doesn’t bother me. But some people, like – they just--why should I say that? It – It’s just nothing to me. I think it’s just--

HARDY: Well I think--I think--

HUTCHISON: It’s just common courtesy.

HARDY: Yeah. I – I agree. I feel the same way. I think the objection that – that a number of people had back then was that they were – they had to call the employers Mr. or Mrs. while they were called by their first name, so it was the, you know-- the feeling of the inequality of the thing.

HUTCHISON: Never bothered – never bothered me. When – when I was little, they – little bit. The people used to come to the house, and they did not call you by your first name. They called you aunt and uncle. That’s what they call you. They would sa – My mother would be-- uh, my mother was named Patty. All right, so this white guy would come to the house, and he – he wouldn’t say “Is Patty home?” or “Mrs. Davis home?” They would say “Is Aunt Patty home?” See? See? Or “Uncle Nelson’s home?” Instead of calling you by your name, that’s the way they did. They called aunt--aunt and uncle.

HARDY: right. That’s an interesting, you know, sort of halfway between uh –

HUTCHISON: Yeah. So--and uh, I said the – the next thing was that, that you came in the back door, and you went out the back door. Now when I went to people I used to work for in Petersburg, they used to go visit their fa – uh, in Rich – in Richmond, in this hotel that uh, I could stay with them in the hotel, but 01:02:00I had to come in the back way to come up, and – and – but I stayed in the hotel with them, but I couldn’t come in the front way, which I was taking care of the children, but I couldn’t come in--she better bring the children on, and I had to come in the other way, but I was there with them. That’s it.

HARDY: Hm. Was it different in Philadelphia?

HUTCHISON: No. I never had any trouble with anybody in Philadelphia. Cause I wor – I worked out for the Shillman, and worked with those children. My bed was in the middle. There was three of us, three bed. I had to go to sleep holding the two children’s hand for them to go to sleep. [laughing] We all slept in the same room, and it was no – was no different. I wa – It was just like my home, see, and like with the Brights she did the shopping, and I did the cooking. She said--

[break in audio]

HARDY: --women like yourself.

HUTCHISON: Yeah.

HARDY: In the – the South.

HUTCHISON: Ye – Right.

HARDY: That wa – that was about it. I mean, there – the factory jobs, I guess --

HUTCHISON: It was--

HARDY: opened up later on.

HUTCHISON: It wa – it was factory job uh, that--there was tobacco factory. It was a peanut factory, and it was a candy factory, and if you, you know, knew anything about how to do anything, or they would show you how to do it.

HARDY: What did you, um. How did you feel? What was the difference between doing uh, housework and factory work? Was – was one type of work better than the other or worse? How did you --

HUTCHISON: Well, the factory –

HARDY: feel about that?

HUTCHISON: work-- uh. Well I – I didn’t – I didn’t work long in the tobacco factory, cause it was tobacco. I couldn’t stand it. It was too strong for me. It would make me feel sick. And I – I stopped that. And uh – But the housework was all right, cause I never – I never had uh, this real hard jobs that like people say you had to so much, because the most of the people like – I said I worked for was with children. And most of my time was with the children. And uh, so even the – the – the madam and sir, they would make up the beds and do different things for me to take the children and take ‘em for a walk at the park or something. They would do all their stuff their self . Cause I – Like I said that -- I never did much day’s work, cause I was always too much to be done in the day. I worked week’s work once or twice.

HARDY: You never considered doing factory work in Philadelphia?

HUTCHISON: Yeah. I wor – I worked in the factory. I uh, I told you that places I went was different work there, and uh, where else did I work? I worked most - 01:03:00mostly laundry. I used to work this lady that came with me to this laundry, and I worked there, and after that, I worked at Liberty Laundry and I worked at Real Service Laundry. Yeah, I worked at a lot of laundries. But – but laundries began to go down. Then I uh, I then after I uh, gave my business--a friend of mine, I got this job out in Rosemont as a cook. So I used to cook in child’s care, and they used to go away to Maine, and uh, I would take care of the children, the little ones. I used to bring them to church and carry all over town. [laughing] And they’re alls married and grown. I talked to the mother about a year ago. They lived – moved to Maine. So the children that’s married, and one’s in Florida, learning to be a lawyer, and different places. All around.

HARDY: Right. Well, I should probably let you go pretty soon. Let me ask you one last couple of questions. Um. The sewing program they had in the basement of the church at Mt. Olivet, what can you tell me about that? And any – Have you any knowledge of how it got there, or –

HUTCHISON: No --

HARDY: who worked on it?

HUTCHISON: I don’t know, but it was through Reverend Shepard Senior, that uh, he had to see to getting it there for, but how he did, I don’t know, but I know he had it there to teach the people how to sew so they could get jobs to work. I know that. And they had it there for some time. I know about that. Um, It was in the basement of the church.

HARDY: Hm. Was there any difference in the style of – of worship from where you came from in Virginia to Philadelphia?

HUTCHISON: No, same Baptist church--same Baptist uh – cause I was baptized in Virginia, and – and I came here, and I – through my uncle and aunties, we 01:04:00stayed and joined church here.

HARDY: So that’s one thing that some people have told me about, was that in Philadelphia, coming from, you know, rural churches in the South to Philadelphia up here, that things were a lot more formal, and uh--

HUTCHISON: Well I didn’t --not in--in a lot of churches in Philadelphia it’s very formal. But uh, in Mt. Olivet, to me it’s real cause see, when I joined, Reverend Shepard wasn’t here. I didn’t join him. I joined under another was uh -- Reverend Lincoln Lewis and Reverend Washington. They carried on the service when Reverend Shepard came here, and I was already in the church, and uh, he just went on through the regular service. It was just like he did down – down in Virginia. Because – cause I was uh – when I came from down in Sussex County, I came to Petersburg, and I joined the Harrison Street Baptist 01:05:00Church there, and I used to be a Sunday school teacher there. So where I’ve been, I – I always did something, cause just like now, I – Wednesday, Thursday and Friday, I go to the Smith Shepard Center, [on C 4th / forest and have a center. We had to have volunteers. So those three days, I – I served uh, coffee for those days, and I baked a lot of stuff myself and give to them down there, because I think those people a lot down there, that don’t uh--I think the best meal they get is – is there. Cause A lot of them they would be people getting old, just [take their chicken?]. Yeah. So that’s where I’m – we got – we had uh – we had birthday parties down there, then we had the father’s day, and we had a lot of cake left. I have it in the freezer. Well 01:06:00uh – I was thinking about I was gonna make it tomorrow, but I forgot I’m going away. I may make it tomorrow afternoon, and take it Wednesday, when I go in Wednesday when I serve the coffee. And so, I make a big bread pudding, and I give a piece of that.

HARDY: Sounds good.

HUTCHISON: Yeah, so [laughing] this is – this is my life. This is what I’ve been doing all my life, just doing something for somebody. Yeah.

HARDY: Yeah. Well sou – I – I – Keeps you young, active, right?

HUTCHISON: Well, I don’t know whether it’s keeping me young, but I – I just keep moving. I just keep doing it.

HARDY: Okay. One last question. In retrospect, after all--in retrospect, after all these years now, how do you um, how do you feel about your move to Philadelphia?

HUTCHISON: All right. Of course, like I said, after I got here, I got married here, and had two difficult weddings and I just learned to take care of myself, that’s all.

HARDY: Oh, you’ve got photos?

HUTCHISON: Oh, yeah some of my--

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