Interview with David Hornbeck, October 8, 2014

Partial Transcript: Okay, it's October the 8th, 2014. I'm with, uh, David Hornbeck at his home in Baltimore, Maryland. I'm Arwen Donahue and this is an interview for the Prichard Committee for Academic Excellence Oral History Project.

Segment Synopsis: David Hornbeck talks about his family and his father's career.

Keywords: Eastman Kodak; Holston Ordnance; Manhattan Project; Oak Ridge (Tenn.)

Subjects: Manhattan Project (U.S.)

Partial Transcript: And what were your, your educational goals for yourself as a young person?

Segment Synopsis: Hornbeck talks about his early ambition to be a pastor in the Southern Presbyterian Church. He talks about his religious education and career working for a religious ministry in Harlem, New York. He says he took a diploma in theology at Oxford University in England. He talks about organizing a divestment initiative directed at South African Apartheid. He talks about taking a secular job in Philadelphia after being unable to secure ordination. He says this shift changed his career outlook.

Keywords: Apartheid; Columbia University; Drug rehabilitation; Southern Presbyterian Church; Theology

Subjects: Presbyterian Church.

Partial Transcript: At what point did you--did it, uh, occur to you that you had a career in education? Was it--did that happen with the Philadelphia tutorial project or was it later than that?

Segment Synopsis: Hornbeck says his career path was never planned. He says his decision to attend law school was influenced by the Presbyterian Church refusing to ordain him. He talks about his civil rights and political activism in Philadelphia. He talks about becoming the object of police surveillance as a result of his political activities.

Keywords: Americans for Democratic Action (ADA); Betty Medsger; Democratic committeeman; Francis Lazarro "Frank" Rizzo; Law school; Mark Shedd; Public demonstrations; Richardson Dilworth; Walter Cronkite

Subjects: Protest movements.

Partial Transcript: Um, but it was through that period of time that I began to think differently about what I might do, and I was so captured by law school--I just loved it.

Segment Synopsis: Hornbeck talks about his choice to attend law school and become a lawyer. He talks about his early legal career as a clerk and deputy council to the governor. He talks about how his legal career competed with his family life, prompting him to resign and become a homemaker. He talks about being coaxed into interviewing for state school superintendent in Pennsylvania, and then accepting a job offer.

Keywords: Abraham Friedman; Americans for Democratic Action (ADA); Hubert Humphrey; Jeane Kirkpatrick; Richard Schifter; State board of education

Subjects: Lawyer

Partial Transcript: Do you have a sense of why Dick Schifter was so attached to you?

Segment Synopsis: Hornbeck talks about his decision to accept the position of Pennsylvania state education superintendent. He talks about litigation that established the right of students with disabilities to have access to education.

Keywords: Deputy Secretary of Education; Early childhood education; Human rights; Richard Schifter; Thomas K. Gilhool

Subjects: School superintendents

Partial Transcript: By that point did you have a, a sense of, um, of American public schools and what needed to change in general?

Segment Synopsis: Hornbeck talks about his developing views of reform needed in United States public schools. He talks about the development of education assessment standards. He talks about learning of education reform in Kentucky and his efforts to obtain an appointment in Kentucky as an adviser.

Keywords: Carnegie Corporation; Church and World Institute; Common core; Competency based education; Crime; David Kerem; David S. Tatel; Democratic National Committee; Hogan Lovells; Hogan and Hartson; Jody Richards; Mark Shedd; Republican National Committee

Subjects: Education.; Public schools.

Partial Transcript: So, we, we did that and, and they hired me. And, uh--

Segment Synopsis: Hornbeck talks about his move to Kentucky as an education adviser to the legislature. He describes his participation in formulating the Kentucky Education Reform Act.

Keywords: Carnegie Foundation; Early childhood education; Education accountability; Health and social services; Kentucky Education Reform Act (KERA); Legislative Reference Bureau; Teacher development

Subjects: Education policy and development; Kentucky. Education Reform Act (1990)

Partial Transcript: It's interesting what you say about teaper--teacher preparation because I think Bob Sexton said that that was the, the, the one piece of KERA that was not as strong as it should have been...

Segment Synopsis: Hornbeck talks about the major ideas of education reform. He talks about the challenges of implementing reform. He discusses the importance of early childhood education. He talks about the involvement of the Carnegie Foundation in education funding and support.

Keywords: Carnegie Foundation; Common core; Competency based education; Council of Chief State School Officers; Education standards; Ernie Boyer; Family resource centers; Head Start; Kentucky Education Reform Act (KERA); Pedagogy; Service learning; Teacher Education Commission; Youth service centers

Subjects: Kentucky. Education Reform Act (1990)

Partial Transcript: But nobody had ever had the opportunity to put all those things together.

Segment Synopsis: Hornbeck talks about the need to develop a set of educational standards before implementing a plan to assess performance. He talks about the implication of racial attitudes in providing education and assessment. He talks about the role of early childhood education to avoid racial and class disadvantages in public education. He talks about the importance of KERA in national education reform. He talks about the need for an integrated education reform agenda.

Keywords: Assessment and Accountability; Business Round Table (BRT); Children Achieving; David Jones; David Karem; Early childhood education; Education standards; John Hall; Kent C. "Oz" Nelson; Kentucky Education Reform Act (KERA); Racism

Subjects: Education policy and development; Kentucky. Education Reform Act (1990); Race relations

Partial Transcript: Um, how much did you know about the education system in Kentucky coming in, and was that--was it important to you to know anything about it?

Segment Synopsis: Hornbeck talks about the state of Kentucky public education when he came to the state. He says two people had alternatively run for state superintendent for several years preceding his arrival. He talks about the state developing and adopting educational standards that fit into the KERA structure he had developed.

Keywords: Bob Sexton; Educational accountability metrics; Educational standards; Edward Prichard, Jr.; Jack Foster; Kentucky Education Reform Act (KERA); Legislative Research Commission (LRC); Pam Sexton; State superintendents; Task Force on Education Reform; Wallace Wilkinson

Subjects: Education.; Prichard Committee for Academic Excellence; Public schools.

Partial Transcript: Do you know of another, uh, community in America, another kind of counterpart to the Prichard Committee where, uh--a community that has had a citizens' movement for education reform...

Segment Synopsis: Hornbeck says he thinks the Prichard Committee was almost unique in education reform in the United States. He says the only comparison is A-Plus in Alabama modeled after the Prichard Committee. He talks about first meeting Bob Sexton when he was working as adviser to the legislative curriculum committee.

Keywords: Bob Sexton; Curriculum committee; Kentucky Education Reform Act (KERA); Leadership Alabama

Subjects: Prichard Committee for Academic Excellence; Sexton, Robert F.

Partial Transcript: One piece I didn't mention earlier that really deserves big time mention, um, and Prichard was very much, I believe, related to it...

Segment Synopsis: Hornbeck talks about the importance of the print news media in Kentucky in achieving educational reform. He talks about the partnership with the Business Round Table in advancing education reform nationwide.

Keywords: Barry Bingham, Jr.; Bob Sexton; Business Round Table (BRT); Courier Journal; Gap analysis; Herald Leader; John Carroll; Kentucky Education Reform Act (KERA)

Subjects: Kentucky. Education Reform Act (1990); Prichard Committee for Academic Excellence

Partial Transcript: Another big influence that Kentucky had was through the National Center on Education and the Economy.

Segment Synopsis: Hornbeck talks about Kentucky's influence on the National Center on Education and the Economy, and the report on education that institution published. He talks about being invited to work for the National Alliance for Education Reform. He describes the involvement of business leadership in education reform on a national level.

Keywords: Bill Clinton; Business Round Table (BRT); Carnegie Foundation; Children Achieving; David T. Kearns; Ernie Cortez; Industrial Area Foundation; Kentucky Education Reform Act (KERA); Lauren Resnick; Mark Tucker; National Alliance for Educational Reform; National Committee for Educational Standards and Testing; National Education Goals Panel; Roy Romer; Saul Alinsky; Xerox, Inc.

Subjects: Education policy and development; Kentucky. Education Reform Act (1990)

Partial Transcript: And as far as how, uh, KERA was being implemented on the ground, were you following the, the details of that over the years after 1990?

Segment Synopsis: Hornbeck talks about the course of implementation of KERA during the 1990s. He talks about his professional acquaintances including Bob Sexton and Russ Edgerton among others and his ongoing professional relationships. He gives a favorable assessment of the implementation of KERA and he notes ideological opposition to his work in education reform.

Keywords: A-Plus; American Association for Higher Education (AAHE); Beverly Raimondo; Bob Sexton; Carnegie Foundation; Cindy Heine; David Williams; Education Week; Kentucky Education Association (KEA); Kentucky Education Reform Act (KERA); Kentucky School Board Association (KSBA); National Alliance for Restructuring Education; National Education Association (NEA); Pam Sexton; Pew Charitable Trust; Russell Edgerton; School councils

Subjects: Education policy and development; Kentucky. Education Reform Act (1990); Prichard Committee for Academic Excellence

Partial Transcript: I know you had a long career since working with Kentucky, and I don't think we need to--your work with the Philadelphia school system has been pretty well covered by the media...

Segment Synopsis: Hornbeck talks about founding a faith-based education advocacy group in Pennsylvania after his resignation as superintendent of Philadelphia public schools. He talks about organizing community meetings to promote education reform in Pennsylvania. He talks about his participation in a gubernatorial campaign to advance education reform. He talks about the crisis conditions existing in the Philadelphia public school system. He talks about his later work in education in Baltimore, Maryland which was complicated by the economic crisis of 2008.

Keywords: Children Achieving; Edward Rendell; Good Schools Pennsylvania; Kentucky Education Reform Act (KERA); Thomas W. Corbett, Jr.

Subjects: Education policy and development; Public schools.

Partial Transcript: And I had gotten very interested in community schools. In fact, when I--people say to me, "So what evidence is there that community schools work?"

Segment Synopsis: Hornbeck talks about his support for community schools. He characterizes family resource centers and youth service centers as community schools, and he notes Kentucky's climb in education rankings. He talks about a political effort to de-fund community schools in Baltimore. He says Maryland reformed its education funding without resorting to litigation. He reviews the political environment for education funding currently in Maryland.

Keywords: Family resource centers; Youth service centers; YouthBuild

Subjects: Education policy and development; Prichard Committee for Academic Excellence

Partial Transcript: Um, I wonder if you would be willing to reflect a little bit on, uh, just what ed--what's happening with education reform, or what education reform, the term, means?

Segment Synopsis: Hornbeck discusses the various viewpoints on educational reform in the United States. He critiques both Michelle Rhee and Diane Ravitch in their positions on education policy and reform. He compares the "insanity" of polarized education reform views with the divided politics of Congress. He talks about charter schools complicating public school management in local systems and describes them as destructive.

Keywords: Barack Obama; Big Bold Education; Charter schools; Democrats for Education Reform; Diane Ravitch; Educational standards; Joe Williams; Lottery schools; Michelle Rhee; School governance; School vouchers

Subjects: Education policy and development

Partial Transcript: And that's another interesting thing about Kentucky is that there's just--there's no charter system there and you've got reform without charters--

Segment Synopsis: Hornbeck says that reform can be accomplished without reliance on charter schools and school vouchers. He talks about how charter schools confound educational funding and equity, and the adverse impact on less wealthy students. He says charter schools are often corrupt and cites examples.

Keywords: John Michael Perzel; Private schools; School funding; School governance

Subjects: Charter schools.; Public schools.

Partial Transcript: You mentioned that both of your sons are principals in local schools. Did you, uh, did you encourage them to go into the field of education?

Segment Synopsis: Hornbeck talks about his sons becoming education professionals. He talks about schools his sons work for becoming "conversion" charter schools in order to acquire more funding. He says he did not directly try to influence the direction of his sons' careers toward education.

Keywords: Charter schools; Children's Defense Fund; Council of Chief State School Officers; Free and reduced price lunch; Gifted and talented programs; Quakers

Subjects: Charter schools.; Education.