Interview with Mike Pratt, February 3, 2016

MACY: Uh, we usually start, just--your name and years you played at UK [University of Kentucky].

PRATT: Mike Pratt. Sixty-eight, sixty-nine, seventy.

MACY: All right. Uh, before we start talking about basketball, let's talk a little bit about that era of the late sixties, early seventies, um, Vietnam going on. You coming out of high school, you don't go to college. I mean, it was really starting to escalate then, wasn't it?

PRATT: It was. I had some, uh, football teammates that went to Vietnam and never came back. Uh, my high school was--graduated in sixty-six--it was blue collar high school where I grew up. The other side of the high school was the money side. Those people went to college more than my side. My side went to the factories in Dayton or go--went to Vietnam, or the Army and then Vietnam. But uh, yeah, it was, uh, it was a very difficult time. Of course, when 00:01:00you went to college, you were insulated in many ways from all of that. I mean, you, you read about it, you heard about all those things. But, uh, until the campus protests started, you were insulated. And, uh, at Kentucky, very demanding as it is now, uh, you had many things to do. Uh, Coach Rupp was, um--my feelings--and I caught him at the end of his coaching career--but I thought there were three things that he really wanted you to do. One, go to class. Two, two, two and a half hours of practice, hard. Great saying he had was, "I want to hear the sneakers squeak." And the third was, stay out of the bars. There weren't a lot of bars, (Macy laughs) but stay out of the bars because you're embarrassing him. (both laugh)

MACY: Um, so being from Dayton, was Bob Donahue at, at Dayton--

PRATT: --Don Donoher coached Dayton, yeah.

MACY: Don Donoher, yeah.

PRATT: Yeah, yeah. Yeah--

MACY: --So how did you sneak away from Dayton and get down to UK?

PRATT: Well, I grew up be--wanting to be a Dayton Flyer. I grew up following that team, uh, and the University of Cincinnati were my two teams, 00:02:00um, because they both were terrific. Um, they were from southern Ohio. Well, Ohio State was very good. I mean, that Lucas Havlicek, Siegfried team was terrific, but they wouldn't play Dayton and wouldn't play Cincinnati, who also was very good. Of course, Cincinnati, uh, ended up playing them in the NCAA [National Collegiate Athletic Association]. But I think we had an, uh, affinity for the local teams, uh, more than, than Ohio State, and as good as they were with that crew they had in, uh, the late fifties, early sixties. But um, Coach Donoher recruited me from about my sophomore year on. And he used to come to my house and, uh, got to know my parents, spent a lot of time recruiting me. And uh, 'course, I knew those guys. Uh, I'd go out to the fieldhouse and play with Donny May and all of them, and played against Donny and some of those guys in high school. Uh, they got down to one thing, Mace. Um, I visited Indiana, visited Michigan, of course visited Ohio State. I wasn't gonna 00:03:00go--uh, I went--I took my---------(??).

MACY: So who was it, Branch McCracken at IU [Indiana University]? Or who was coach--

PRATT: Um, no, it was, uh, the guy after him. Um, well I can't tell you his name now. Um, this was--I love the Van Arsdales', okay?

MACY: Yeah.

PRATT: And I'd watch the Big Ten game of the week. And I was a big fan of the Van Arsdales', so I went over. It was only, uh, an hour and a half, two hours from Dayton. They recruited me really hard.

MACY: That would have been McGinnis and Downing, though, right?

PRATT: No, they were after me.

MACY: Were they sixties?

PRATT: They were after me.

MACY: Oh, they were early seventies, weren't they?

PRATT: Yeah, early seventies, right. Yeah.

MACY: ------(??)------

PRATT: Uh, Joe Cooke had got in(?) Toledo, going forward and then coming back--Joe Cooke's a guy, played in the Ohio all-star game. He played for the north. Joe was really a good player. Six five, swing player. Was up and down from the NBA [National Basketball Association] for a couple years, I don't know what Joe's doing now. He, he was a big player there. Um, I can't--Indiana was struggling then. And ultimately, the guy either quit or was fired. 00:04:00Um, but anyway, um, I flew to Duke and uh, Bucky Waters was one of the assistants and Vic Bubas was the head coach. That was my only plane trip in my life until I started playing in Kentucky. And, um, but, I wanted to go someplace my parents could see me a lot, play a lot. My brother, my parents, I was the oldest of two. And then at the bottom line, I was going to Dayton for a long, long time, or Cincinnati. And when I visited Cincinnati, one of the players there that I respected told me not to come here. And I said, "Oh," you know, "That may not be where I wanna go." (both laugh) And uh, Lee Rose recruited me, who ultimately I, I got into coaching with. Uh, Ray Geringer, a former, um, Dayton Flyer himself, was an assistant coach. But it got down to--I thought I wanted to go away from home, but I wanted to be close enough where I could hitchhike home or jump on a bus or something. And that's how I got to 00:05:00Kentucky. Joe Hall, uh, did a terrific job. He was the recruiter. Um, you played for him, you know him in a different light, maybe, than, than I do. But Joe was, uh, was an amazing recruiter. And uh, first guy that contacted me for--for Kentucky was my sophomore year. Fella by the name of Neil Reed, who actually recruited Dampier and Clevenger, a bunch of those Indiana guys. Neil came up to me after watching me play, um, Dayton-Belmont (??) with May and Haskett, and they won the state championship. And he said, "Look, I'm, I'm interested in you." He gave me his card and went to my high school coach. Uh, and then about a year later, Joe started recruiting me. Um, Neil left. I don't know where Neil went, um, but uh, I was--I was going to stay. I wasn't gonna go far. I just--just decided after that plane trip to Duke that I wasn't--(Macy laughs)--first of all, I didn't fit in down there. You know, I'm a blue collar guy. My, uh, my dad climbed telephone poles for a living. And, uh, 00:06:00Duke was, uh, they all had nice, fancy cars. Bob Verga, Mike Lewis. It, it was, it was a beautiful place. But, um, I thought if I can't hitchhike home, or get the bus, or grab a ride, then I probably won't go.

MACY: Yeah. So you come to Kentucky, and at that time, there was the freshmen ineligible rule. You couldn't play as freshmen and (??) a freshman team. We haven't really talked much to many of the players about that, that, that were during that time. How tough was that? What was your thoughts as knowing your first year you weren't gonna get a chance to play, like nowadays they play?

PRATT: That's the way it went then. I mean, what are you gonna do? (laughs)

MACY: Yeah.

PRATT: That was the rule. I never thought, um, anything about it, to be honest with you. Matter of fact, um, Joe recruited ------(??) Rupp's Runts. That was a terrific team to watch, and so much fun to watch. And the whole country was enamored with them in many, many ways. Um, you knew you came in as a freshman, that you were going to play a twenty game schedule. And uh, it was, 00:07:00it was like maybe, you know, you had your own little world as a freshman. And we had, uh, thirteen guys, I think, come in on scholarship that year. There were unlimited scholarships at that time. And, uh, he brought--Joe brought thirteen, Joe and Harry and Adolph, the combination brought thirteen guys in. And um, it was, it was a lot of fun. We practiced after the varsity.

MACY: So you didn't practice with the varsity -----(??)

PRATT: Well, um, we scrimmaged the varsity once and then they wouldn't let us scrimmage them again. (both laugh)

MACY: And why was that? (laughs)

PRATT: Well, you know, we couldn't stop Dampier, lemme tell ya. And Riley was hurt, and then the rest of them, uh, were good but we jumped on them and we hurt Harry's feelings--Harry Lancaster, the uh, Adolph's right hand man, and uh, he didn't want that to happen again. So I don't think we ever scrimmaged--it was about a twenty minute scrimmage. Okay? You know how those things went, Mace. Um, controlled to a point, but it got, it got, uh, interesting. 00:08:00But we would go to study hall at three o'clock and, or maybe earlier for some. Um, and then we would, uh, come watch the last forty-five minutes of the varsity practice, sit in the uh, in the bleachers there on the floor in the old Coliseum in our practice outfits, and uh, watch the varsity. And that was a learning process. That was, you were expected to watch and learn, and--because we ran the same things. And I always found it interesting because, uh, I don't know if they planned it this way or not. Learning, yes, the drills, the intensity. But, it also gave you a great opportunity to size up your competition the next year. The guys would be--I looked at it that way. I looked at, who would I have to beat out, knowing Riley was gone and Louie was gone? I didn't play guard, I played forward. But, um, you know, ------(??) was coming back, and Thad was 00:09:00an established player, and Clevenger and LeMaster, Porter, and Gamble. Those guys all came back and you had to compete with them, so you had a chance to watch them. It was interesting.

MACY: Yeah. Um, so your first year, then, you're able to play, that sixty-seven, sixty-eight season?PRATT: Correct.

MACY: Then, so you had seven sophomores on the team, a junior, Argento, and one se--and six seniors, I'm sorry. Six, which is a lot of seniors. So all of a sudden now, three sophomores are starting. How'd that go over with the, the seniors?

PRATT: I don't think it went over well, at first, (Macy laughs) but I will say, I will, I will tell you, uh, I, I give a lot of credit, if not all the credit for our development. And when Mike Casey was alive, we used to laugh about this and talk. And I'm good friends with a lot of those guys--all of those guys, we were together last summer. Um, their leadership--once it was established that we were gonna play, those guys didn't push back against that. I mean, 00:10:00they pushed back in practice, which they should have. They weren't willing to give in, Mace, but they, uh, they--once that was established that we were playing and we could win, we all could win that way--they--they--they were leaders. They really gave, uh, gave us a lot of leadership. Um, Clevenger, LeMaster, Porter, Gamble--Thad Jaracz was terrific. He started. Um, Clevenger started, LeMaster was in and out. But uh, that was--it ended up being a terrific relationship between the three of us. Now, we're coming off being ranked one of the top two freshman teams in the country, and we move up to the varsity, and the varsity is coming off 13 and 13. Um, we were not picked in the preseason top twenty or twenty-five. We weren't even picked to win our league. Now, our league was really good. Now, Florida had Neal Walk, a pro, Andy Owens, a pro. Uh, Tennessee had the team, basically, back, who won the championship the year before--the league championship. And Vandy was loaded. Tommy Hagan, 00:11:00Bo Wyenandt, um, the guy from down the western part of the state. These guys were loaded, and we weren't picked to win the SEC [Southeastern Conference], nor in the top twenty-five.

Once we got rolling, uh, we had some bumps in the road, but once we got rolling we had a very nice combination. Very nice.

MACY: How would you describe that team? Uh, obviously they don't like to go up and down--

PRATT: --Um-hm.

MACY: But the personnel, with your--the three sophomores, Casey, Issel, and yourself, and, and the junior senior (??) playing, he didn't play a lot of bench players, right?

PRATT: No. His bench was very short.

MACY: Yeah.

PRATT: And, uh, but he trusted those seniors. He trusted those guys. Clevenger ended up starting, LeMaster started a little bit, Porter and Gamble, he, he trusted them. Of course, Thad was a starter, was a starter on Rupp's Runts. Um, he, he, no, he was not a long bench guy. Describe us was that we ran and shot, and, uh, um, probably could have been a bit better defensive team. 00:12:00But, you know, we--we started being a--a outside and (??) offense. Uh, but when Issel, uh, he went down, Ray Jeffries--I think it was his last name, from Georgia--football player, basketball player, undercut Dan at a home game early in January. And we always said that--and he took a bad spill--we always said that, you know, that kind of shook Dan up. And from then, man, he was like, launched. Uh, he was so skilled offensively, so smart, so skilled. And uh, we rode in--matter of fact, uh, I was talking with a former Tennessee star, Billy Justus, just last night at the Tennessee game. We rolled in there on a Monday night, and Tennessee was in first. We had fallen out of first. We had been beaten at Florida. We rolled in there on Monday night and got drilled. Oranges thrown at us, football team behind the bench cursing us, and we got beat by twenty-three. The worst loss, I think, was twenty-three, that 00:13:00Adolph had had in I don't know how long, okay. Road loss, whatever. Nobody was gonna beat him at home. So we go on to win thirteen or fourteen straight, get beat on a buzzer shot to go to the final four by Ohio State. We went on a run after that. Um, we came together. We decided that, that we thought we could win it all along. It was a tough league back then. There was one winner, and at that time, my sophomore year, nobody went to the NIT [National Invitation Tournament]. It was just one "Pack your bags, go home." Um, so we made that run and we won some close games, got a lot of confidence. And then, uh, uh, it was, it was great coming together. I credit those seniors a lot.

MACY: You were, you were going to finish twenty-two in five. I was a little surprised, in looking back at that season, that Mike Casey was the leading scorer, it wasn't Dan Issel.

PRATT: That's correct. Case got off to a good start, he had a big opening game. We, uh, dedicated Chrysler Arena, um, at Michigan. Uh, I had--I had 00:14:00gotten the flu and went in the hospital for a day and night, came out and, uh, didn't start that game. And uh, Case had a big game up there. They were loaded. They ended up, I believe, playing Ohio State. I believe they were the other team at Purdue in a playoff game to get to the tournament. And really T was a sophomore(??). They had a guy from Toledo, Dennis Stewart. They had, uh, uh, you remember the Fife (??) kid that played in Indiana? His dad was a baseball player, basketball player, good player? I mean, they had a heck of a team, uh, Michigan. We went up there and, and, and beat them. Um, Case got off to a good start, uh, was leading, uh, early. Like I said, when Dan took that fall against Georgia, it was like, I don't know. I mean, he just blew up and, uh, just took off. And, and when he was tough inside like that, it made it a whole lot easier for everybody else, that inside outside combination.

MACY: Well you, like you said you won, uh, twelve in a row to end the season, uh, then lost in the Mideast Regional Final to Ohio State, which we 00:15:00talked about, one of the schools you were possibly thinking about.

PRATT: Yep.

MACY: And that game was in Lexington.

PRATT: Yep.

MACY: Eighty-two, eighty-one. Tell me a little bit about that game.

PRATT: The night before we, uh, played Al McGuire's--his first really good Marquette team. Um, beat them pretty good, 20 points--18, 22--whatever it was, we were in control all the way. Ohio State had played, uh, East Tennessee State in the other game, and they squeaked by them. And I think we, we pretty much thought that--because Al came in being Al, very boisterous, um, a great line that Adolph had--Al came in, and he, he said and, and I, I later on in my life I, I got to know Al, uh, when I was in coaching, and he laughed about this--he came in and he said, "Well, I can't play with this ball, because that's got, it's an Adolph F. Rupp ball. And I can't play with that. We gotta have a different ball." And the--Adolph, I guess at the press conference, 00:16:00looked at him and said, "Hey, son, when you get your own ball, we'll play with yours, but we're playing with mine." (both laugh) And there were only two people in the country that had their own ball at the time.

MACY: Right.

PRATT: Adolph Rupp and John Wooden. So, uh, we, uh, we came out a little slow. We fought, we hung in there. Um, I can still see the, the late Dave Sorenson shooting that shot. Uh, Dennis Meadors, a guy from outside of Dayton--I knew a lot of those guys--drove down the middle. I think Case hit a--deflected the ball off--out of bounds. And there was like one second on the clock, two seconds at the most. One, two seconds. So we called time out, or they called, I can't remember. We come back and there was the discussion in the huddle, whether we go man or zone, out of bounds, under the basket. We're up, 80, 79. So, we went zone and we forced them to throw the ball to the--just outside the elbow area. Sorenson caught it, shot it, banked it in, um, they go to L.A.

MACY: Banked it in?

PRATT: Banked it in. They go to L.A., and we, uh--I mean it was a good shot. He was a heck of a shooter. He played four years in the, in the NBA. He was really a, a quality--he would be termed now a stretch four. But he was a good shooting, big man. And um, he made the shot. And I can still see it now, it was a real big disappointment.

MACY: So were you pushing for the man or zone yourself?

PRATT: I can't remember. (Macy laughs) I know two guys that led the charge. I mean, as a sophomore, you didn't say a whole lot.

MACY: Right.

PRATT: Okay? But Clevenger and LeMaster both were trying to get Coach Rupp to go, uh, man to man, not to zone.

MACY: Uh, so you finished your sophomore year with, uh, three hundred and eighty points, two hundred and twenty rebounds and eighty-two assists. How'd you feel about that first year playing varsity basketball?

PRATT: Well, uh, considering the amount of games and, uh, you know, my role on that team was-- Thad was a lock-down defender at the forwards(??). But 00:18:00my job was to almost be a swing player, push it. Uh, and, uh, you know, there's only so many shots to go around, Mace. And Issel, once Issel became a load in there, man, you were--you were silly not to throw it in, and Coach Rupp would make sure that you knew that. And hey, look, we had a good year. I--I, at my size, uh, six three, I--I enjoyed rebounding, and, uh, I enjoyed that, that part of it. So I looked at it and I said, you know, um, I had to--to fight to get the starting spot, I came on, played well. I was happy, I was happy. I was looking forward to the next year.

MACY: What kind of player was Phil Argento?

PRATT: I tell you, I saw him score a hundred points one time, Mace.

MACY: Really?

PRATT: Yeah, yeah. He played the University of Dayton freshmen, and four--three guys had fouled, uh, and flunked out of his recruiting class. Phil 00:19:00was the last one left, and I saw him get fifty, and they taped it, I went home, and I saw him get the fifty again, so I saw him get a hundred. (both laugh) But he was a terrific shooter, a terrific shooter. But, I mean, we had a, we had a guy--I mean, look, he was a better shooter than Casey from a long distance, that wasn't Casey's deal. Case had a unbelievable nose for the ball, terrific mid range. He could've hit the three point shot, now. But I mean, Phil Argento was, he had some great range. Um, he had a-with Clevenger and LeMaster at the point leading things, they were willing to sacrifice. They D'd it up, they were willing to sacrifice for the offense to go in other ways. And it was kind of hard for Phil to get to, get his minutes that year because Casey played so daggone well.

MACY: So let's go then, to--uh, sixty-eight, sixty-nine, now. In--uh-- 00:20:00I--I want to go back to the cultural event(??) because there's a lot of stuff going on in our country at that time. Uh, now all of a sudden you got stuff going on on campus. Uh, I don't know if--it's the hippie movement or whatever you want to call it--

PRATT: --yeah. Yeah, yeah, radicals--

MACY: --which, which is interesting to me because with Coach Rupp's discipline and his beliefs, seemingly, um, maybe an outsider, I mean, you'd know better the, the difference between the two and how that, like you said, he had to set things, he, he, just three rules for you like you said. But, um, at the end of that--well, in April of sixty-eight, Martin Luther King was assassinated. Um, around that time, there's the protest on the main administration lawn there. Buell Armory is, the whole thing's not torched, I guess, but a--

PRATT: --Well, that was my senior year

MACY: Okay.

PRATT: Yeah. Yeah, I remember my senior year, to skip ahead for you, walking out after practice for, oh, either the last game or we were getting ready to go to Columbus. And, uh, the march had been going on, and walked out, and the, uh, the Armory was on fire. It was right next to-- there was a bowling alley 00:21:00next to the Coliseum. And then next to that was the Armory, the, uh, ROTC Armory, it was on fire. And there were police everywhere. State police everywhere. Um, my junior year, um--

MACY: --Now your first--you missed two games your junior year.

PRATT: I--I did. I--I, uh, was trying to become a defensive player. (both laugh) We were overplaying, we were overplaying in a drill. I stuck my hand out to deflect the pass, trying to get the overplay, and I heard a pop and I pulled my hand back, and this finger was hanging down by the skin. At that time, I think I probably go into shock. I go over to the trainer and I said, "Claude, look at this." And now everybody's looking and everyone's going like, "Come on, man." You know. It's just hanging there. And I mean, I just played the pass -----(??) that evidently had my hand turn this way, Mace. Snapped it. So they took me over and, uh, they had a terrific doctor. Richard Bowers. Something you don't forget, sometimes, is these things. And he, he was a guy they brought in from New York to, to do all this terrific surgery at the medical center. So he put 00:22:00my finger back together. And there's a great story later on about that. And I missed the first two games and then I came back and played against North Carolina with a paraffin cast on it. And, and they take my finger up and put it in this paraffin cast. I missed the first two games. Missed the game at Miami of Ohio, where we dedicated the new gym. Would've been great, because I had people that could've come down from Dayton. Um, and I think it was Xavier or somebody else early. But we're playing North Carolina. Both teams ranked in the top ten. Charlie Scott was on that team. Um, Bill Bunting, Dick Grubar, I think Larry Miller, they were really good. They'd been in the Final Four the year before. So, we're playing them, and, and I go over to put (??) this paraffin cast. Now I hadn't practiced for a couple of weeks, hadn't played in the games. I'd done a little running, but, you know, back then wasn't like it is now. If it 00:23:00was now, they'd have you doing all kinds of things to stay in shape. But back then they go, "Eh," you know, "Okay." It wasn't the same thing, yeah. (Macy laughs) So I go over to have this paraffin cast put on by Dr. Bowers, and--guy shows up, Dean Smith. And, and Doc says, "Mike," he said, "Dean Smith's out here. He wants to watch me do this. What do you think?" Now, I'd gotten to know him because, you know, I went to him, ongoing throughout the injury, and, uh, I said, "I don't care. I'd like to meet Coach Smith myself." You know? (laughs) So he comes in and sits there. He was very curious about how bad it was, asked how bad it was. Asked, uh, Doc Bowers, um, what his background was, and they had a nice conversation. I sat there and he put the paraffin on it. And so I went and played that night. No one tried to hit me or anything, but I think he probably wanted to see exactly how cumbersome this thing would be.

MACY: Right.

PRATT: And also see what I looked like after not playing for two weeks, you know. (Macy laughs) So he was right in the whole thing, I thought that was pretty cool. He was a real gentleman. He was a real gentleman. And, of course, Coach Rupp couldn't figure that out when they told him that Dean Smith had showed up and, um, he had some caustic remark about that. You know. But it was, it was quite interesting, Mace. And we, uh, we lost that game. You know, we all lost a couple times. That might have been the second game we lost at home, the one being the, uh, NCAA tournament game in, in, Carolina in my career. It was a tough loss, uh, I think we lost by 7, 6 or 7. Um, I wasn't in any shape to play, not doing any--not doing much for a couple weeks. Plus, this hand was, you know, I didn't know what to do with it. I had not practiced a day with my hand in a cast. They just put it in, said, "Let's go." So.

MACY: But it was your non-shooting hand, so-- (laughs)

PRATT: Yeah, yeah, but it was part of my rebound. (both laugh) But 00:25:00uh, you know, it was, it was, it was a big game for us with Carolina. That's a great rivalry.

MACY: And, and, new personnel, Thad obviously graduated. Larry Steele comes in the program. Who are some of the others ---------(??)?

PRATT: Larry was a, uh, uh, terrific lockdown defender. Very good rebounder for a skinny guy, could run like a deer. Um, so he slipped into Thad's position. Uh, Bob McCowan, Greg Starrick, both came in, uh, to play. Um, they had a guy. Uh, big guy. Uh, I can't think of his name now, but he ended up transferring. Um, he was, uh, but he was a nice player. But Bob really was--Bob, Larry, and, uh, Greg Starrick, who ended up transferring, um, felt he wasn't getting the appropriate time. Terrific shooter from Illinois-- southern Illinois, ended up going to SIU [Southern Illinois University], and one of their all-time leading scorers held the, uh, held, held an NCAA record for, and you'll appreciate 00:26:00this, foul shooting and um, just didn't, uh--struggled at the defensive end. Okay? But, uh, just didn't feel he was going to get the minutes. Didn't feel that he was treated fairly, uh, on the minutes. So, um, you know, in, in our gentle play (??)--and I'm gonna tell you, Mace, that year we had a much better team than it ended. What happened to that team? We were playing right along. We're in the top ten. You know, five, six, whatever we were--seven. Um, Coach Rupp's foot blew up on him.

MACY: Yes.

PRATT: He was diabetic and he had the gout. And Shive died, Shive died. The, the--and Harry became full time AD [athletic director]. And the balance on that coaching staff--and your experience coaching was this way--Harry and Adolph liked to play good cop, bad cop. Okay? And, uh, honestly, Harry was a 00:27:00bad cop. And he was, he was a hard nosed guy, man. So he goes to be AD and he'd come around to practice--he was still a system (??), he wasn't there. Joe was on the road. Adolph had his foot up for about the last month and a half of the season with the gout and, uh, phlebitis or whatever it was. And we needed guidance, because we only had one senior, and we were used to the senior class being so, so strong the year before. And we were rolling along pretty good until Harry left us. And I, and I look back on it now and my discussions with former teammates--I think we kind of took the pedal off, off the gas--

MACY: --yeah--

PRATT: --and we won the league and all that stuff. But when we went into the NCCA, we didn't have that Harry Lancaster voice in the background, pushing and, uh, threatening, not, not physically--

MACY: --right, right--

PRATT: --but, you know, staying on us--

MACY: --um-hm--

PRATT: --uh, to keep us, uh, really playing with a chip on our shoulders. And we went up to play Marquette, a team we had beaten by eighteen or twenty 00:28:00the year before. We played them in Madison, Wisconsin. Sixty miles from Marquette, Al's up there yapping--which Al does so well--distracting everything from his team and then pumping his team up. And I had reason--I know this is George Thompson who played on that team--and I--we shared many moments after the fact. We played against each other in the ABA [American Basketball Association] and then he did the Marquette radio, my role (??) for years and we played Marquette, uh, and we would get together and talk and laugh. And, um, what--some of the things Al did to motivate them, um, was, uh--and when you went to Madison, one of the key--if you study history, Madison was one of those places where the SDS [Students for a Democratic Society], which is a big group in the sixties on campuses--the students' Democrat--Democratic Society, they were against the war. They marched, they protest. And so here we come without any African-American players to a place like that. And with the war going 00:29:00on, and it was a very, very difficult place to go into. And we, we weren't, uh, we didn't have that edge. We--we had lost our edge. Our edge was being pushed by--by Harry. Uh, Joe was recruiting all the time. So we--and, and Adolph was sick. And I think we lost our edge and we got beat. We got upset by Marquette in the first round.

MACY: And then you, you had to turn around--at that time they played the consolation game-- played Miami of Ohio.

PRATT: Yep.

MACY: Yeah, that's gotta be tough, knowing it's--

PRATT: --it was awful.

MACY: Yeah.

PRATT: Not tough, it was awful.

MACY: You won, but--

PRATT: --we won. We had beaten Miami. I didn't play in the first game. It, uh, takes -------(??) coach, terrific coach. Uh, we had beaten them up in, uh, Miami at the dedication game. But, yeah, we stayed out. We, we hit the bars--we, we--the season was over. You know, we went to get something to eat, Mace, after that game--Issel, Casey, and I. And we, we kept our-- Madison, 00:30:00Wisconsin, the floor was elevated on dirt, and you walked across--they had, like, a little walkway, you get to the floor. A lot of the Big Ten schools were like that. When I visited Michigan, their old arena was like that. Indiana, when I visited there, they were like that, because they ran track inside or did baseball, right? So, we couldn't even shower in our place, it was so small. We went back to the hotel. So we waited, sat in our room and waited till, uh, somebody came by, picked us up, took us out. We went out, ate, had a bunch of beer, came back the next day, jerked around in practice because it was over. Why play a consolation game? Then played Miami on Saturday afternoon and went home. I mean, it was--it was a awful--it was awful. That's all I can tell you.

MACY: Now a couple of -----------(??) during that season, though--on January 18, your team won against Tennessee by three, which gave the Kentucky program their 1000th victory. Was there any special celebration for that -----(??)?

PRATT: We had cake, we had cake, if I remember right. Big 00:31:00celebration. Um, Tennessee, again, was very good, uh. And Boerwinkle, Justus, Hann, uh, Bobby Croft, that was a good--Ray Mears had some good teams and it was a big win and a big celebration afterwards ------(??). They had, uh--I've got some pictures someplace of us, uh, blowing out a cake in, uh, uh, at uh--right there on the floor. Yeah, it was, it was a big deal.

MACY: That team, it, it, it--like you said, you like to run up and down (??), you like to score. You had ten games where you scored over 100 points, won the 24th SEC title for Kentucky. That Michigan game you talked about--there was, it was one hundred--112 to 104 in the UK -------(??)?

PRATT: Um-hm. Um-hm.

MACY: And they came back ----------(??). Then you beat Notre Dame 110 to 90. Uh, you lost to Vanderbilt, it must have been a heck of a game. 101 to 99.

PRATT: Yeah. Uh, they were good. I mean, uh, uh, Tommy Hagan from Louisville was quite a shooter. Perry Wallace, who--first African-American 00:32:00basketball player in the SEC--was terrific inside. And they had a guy named Bundy who was a big guy. Now, he wasn't Issel's league, but he was physical. Um, they also had the guy from--god, I can't think--he's passed now, but he played in the ABA. I played against him, he was really good. I mean, Vandy was good then. Roy Skinner had good teams. The set (??)--they would go down--Vandy and Tennessee both played like Carolina or State or South Carolina. They beat them. Okay? Um, we didn't have a tournament. And so it was--you had to win. And, and, uh, Vandy was good. Yeah. Vandy loved to run and shoot, and they had the shooters to do it. I mean, Tommy Hagan was one terrific shooter in college.

MACY: How'd you like playing at the old coliseum down in Vanderbilt?

PRATT: Had no problem with it at all. Different. Uh, my sophomore year we went in there, uh, opening SEC game. We drilled them, and we all had big games. We just--but, but they would run and shoot and uh, they would play some 00:33:00zone. Um, but they let--they let--they--uh--Coach Skinner let you play, man. I liked playing in there.

MACY: Yeah. Um, during that year, Issel's numbers, again, like you talked about--really jumpy. You bumped up to 26.6 per game. Casey still averaged 19. You were right there at 16.8--8, almost 17. I guess we'll round up, give you some ----(??).

PRATT: Well now, wait a minute. I mean, I was 16-something as a sophomore. I think I got into 17 as a junior, didn't I?

MACY: Well, 16.8. I think you were like--I had it down. I think you were like almost 15.

PRATT: Was that it? Okay.

MACY: Yeah. I think Casey was 18, Issel was 16, you were 14 or 15.

PRATT: Okay.

MACY: That was sophomore year. But um, was it--I mean, there's gotta be a reason all of a sudden Issel's average jumped 10 points. Was it more ------(??) to go inside to him once he had that explosion as a sophomore?

PRATT: We did. We were very--you know, Coach Rupp didn't win all those games by being a dummy. (Macy laughs) And, uh, Dan was so good in there and he 00:34:00was so clever. If you look at the two guys who got to the charity stripe, the most in the history of Kentucky basketball, one's Issel, and two, Skinny Walker. And, uh, Dan didn't have Skye's legs, okay? But, Dan could move out on the floor. He was a tough matchup because he could go to that elbow, Mace, and could shoot that shot. If you ran at him, he'd blow by you, and could get to the rim and be fouled and make his foul shots. And he was, he was a special basketball player, as we all know. And, uh, we went to him, absolutely. We'd roll him from the--from out of the Kentucky offense. We'd roll him from the elbow area--high, what, what would be called high then. It's not the top of the circle, but it's the elbow--roll him into the block, and we'd turn out on a baseline. We had a play, I think it was ten (??) where I would come off, uh, on the baseline curl to the corner and he would be setting a pick along with the other forward, and Dan then would post up and stay. Man, he was, he was killer. He was killer.

MACY: It was really kind of a record year. I mean, Issel with his point scoring, Casey--the numbers of assists he had, and yourself, shooting over 53 percent in the field.

PRATT: Yeah.

MACY: For a one handed guy with a broken finger--

PRATT: --I know, I know. I got better as the year went on. (both laugh) You know, uh, the thing that Case and I always talked about was, uh, George Euchal, God bless him, he was the predecessor to Bill Kiley. He actually started doing stats for--for Coach Rupp--and some of the other guys you talked to will tell you about it--but he sat down on the--on the--uh, by Coach Rupp at the home games, um, keeping stats, rebounds and assists. And, uh, of course, we had Issel. And-- and so three of the four years we played together, I led in assists, three, and Casey led one. That was our junior year. But Euch--we used to go in and tell Euch after the game, because he'd sit in that little cage, and we'd say, "Euch, I--I--I got three assists!" Casey, "I got three assists!" Whatever it was. Euch said, "eah! That's what you got, that's what you earned." And Euch would-- we'd say, "Euch! Come on now. This is--we're playing 00:36:00with Issel." He'd go, "Nope." Euch's mind--and he was one of the first guys to chart stats--you know, you're allowed one dribble. You never got an assist on a jump shot. Never.

MACY: Never, right.

PRATT: Never, right, man?

MACY: Right. (laughs)

PRATT: One dribble. But now we're playing with the all-time leading scorer at University Kentucky and we'll--we--we only get--I think my career was two hundred and some--three hundred, and his was--Case was right underneath that. We're very close there. Uh, um, but you know, come on. I mean, it--nowadays, if we would've played with Issel, or if they would've just charted--charted then like they do now, I'd have seven hundred assists, man. (Macy laughs) I mean this guy was a machine, Mace, and then Casey was a machine. Okay? And Thad was good in there. He could score in there, and we just never got that. But uh, we always--that was a--a running joke with us, uh, with Euchal on the assist. And uh, um, it was, uh --we never felt, um, I never felt--I don't think 00:37:00Case ever did too--we talked about any animosity to Dan. He was a machine. He was as--he was terrific.

MACY: I was going to ask about George a little later, but since you brought it up, uh--I've--I've heard some different stories. Do you have any stories about his darning of socks or with the equipment? How kind of stingy with it -------(??)?

PRATT: Oh, stingy? Come on, man! I've got a great story. I was going home after my sophomore year or junior year, one of the two. I went home every summer. I never spent a summer here because I'd go home, and Joe had arranged a job up there with a guy, and I played playgrounds every night or out at UD [University of Dayton]. So, I wanted a pair of sneakers, just a pair of Converse sneakers, which we wore. Okay? I didn't have any money to buy sneakers, I--you know? So I go to Euch about two weeks before finals and I go back there, and of course, his great line was "You pissant, you." I mean, that was his great line. And so I said, "Euch how're you doing?" Start talking to him, I said, "Euch, 00:38:00I--I need a pair of sneakers. I'm going home this summer, playing outdoors or--or at Dayton. I gotta have some sneakers." I said, "God, man, Donny May and all them--they got great sneakers, you know, they got all they want. They were like--like Converse like mine, but they had newer ones. So Euch says, "What size you wear?" And he knew what size I wore, okay? (Macy laughs) And I said, "Well, you know, Euch, I got fourteens." He goes, "Okay." He said, "Hold on a minute." So he goes back there and--we wore Converse. Bata Bullets was trying to get Kentucky's business. So they had shipped all these Bata Bullets, and I remember trying them. They were awful. And we just went to Coach Rupp, said, "Coach, we can't wear these things. They hurt your feet." And so, um, Euch comes back with a box of Bata Bullets. And I looked at Euch, I said, "Euch. Daggone it, man." I said, "I can't take these. These hurt my feet! Come on, give me--just give me a couple pairs of those old ones." Because they kept your old sneakers. They didn't--you know? He kept--he had a big stack of them back there, okay? I said, "Euch, uh--uh, just give me my old sneakers to go home. I'll be 00:39:00okay." "I can't do that." "Okay. How about some socks?" "---(??), man. You got your own socks." "Okay." (Macy laughs) So I--I said, "Euch, I can't wear these," and walked out. So I went someplace and came back and went to see Coach Rupp. He said -----(??), the secretary said, "He's not in, see him the next day." I said, "Okay." So I came back the next day with an appointment to see him. And I said, "Coach, I really need a favor." And he said, "Okay." I says, "I want to get some shoes. I'm going home this summer like I usually do--I need some shoes to play." So he says, "Well, go see Euch!" I said, "Coach, I went to see Euch, and he wanted to give me those Beta Bullets." And he goes, "Beta Bullets?" I mean it didn't--he says, "Come on with me." So we go down-- Adolph and I go down to see Euch. I knew I was in trouble. (both laugh) I knew I was in trouble. So we go down--and Adolph and I--I walk in behind him, into Euch's cage, which 00:40:00was his world, his house. And, uh, Coach Rupp goes, uh, "Euch, this boy needs a pair of shoes to go home to Dayton to play this summer." Euch said, "I know. I gave him a pair." I'm sitting there going, "Mm, okay." And he says, "Euch, give him some of those shoes he wore during the year. Those old shoes. The boy can't wear Bata Bullets." I'll never forget it. And he kinda dresses you down a little bit, and, uh, he says, "Now, Euch, I want this boy to have shoes. Pratt, you stay here. Euch'll get you these shoes. I'm going back to my office." So he shuffles out to his office. So, Euch rummages around, finds a couple old pairs, and brings them to me and plops them down on--on this little area there. He says, "Here's your shoes." I said, "Well, thanks, Euch, I appreciate it." And he looked at me, he says, "Just because you brought Coach Rupp down here 00:41:00to do this for you doesn't mean you're not a pissant." (Macy laughs) And anybody who was around Euch knows that "pissant"--that was his terminology for somebody that had not done him a favor, Mace.

MACY: And, you know, as I was looking at that team picture from that season, I don't know if there's anything to it-- but it may have just been me, but it looked like to me--number eleven in the picture, Bob McGowan, and number forty, Clint Wheeler--looked like their jerseys were the older model jerseys--it wasn't like, the same jerseys. Was he--

PRATT: --no, probably not. I mean, if you looked at your jersey closely--and I've got, um--somebody gave me a jersey, uh, years back with my number on it. I assume it's mine--but it had all the stitching on it. You know, and it--it--it--uh, they darned your jerseys up. Um, they darned the socks up. We practiced in, uh, what people call now "wifebeater" tee shirts. Those white

MACY: Yeah, -----(??)-----

PRATT: --old--yeah. Uh, and they--they--uh--they were very frugal. And I used to laugh because my football-playing buddies at the time, they said, "Well, you guys got everything, you guys." I said, "Look. So let me ask you something." I said, "When you're in practice and you're not in this scrimmage, and you gotta watch, do you put anything on while you're standing there in the cold?" They go, "Well," they got some of these parkas and, you know, ---------(??) and I say, "Okay, you know what? We've got to stand on the sidelines in and watch white terry cloth robes." That's what we wore when we came out of a scrimmage or a practice and somebody took your place, you put the white terry cloth robes on.

MACY: Do you know where that started?

PRATT: I have no idea. We did not--we had--it was funny, we had sweatshirts and sweatpants--and none of them fit, they all were probably ten years old--to go in our running program. Okay? But that was not brought out very often. It was the white terry cloth robes. I mean, and we had no, uh, I mean, no, uh, 00:43:00warm-up stuff as--as far as for practice. And we had warm-ups for games. But I mean, white terry cloth robes in a place where they kept the heat at a minimum? It was cold Saturday. I'm not so sure there ever was heat at practice on Saturday. I'm not so sure.

MACY: Well that team finished, uh, 23 and 5--the sixty-eight, sixty-nine team. And you've gotta believe your outlook, thinking your senior year is going to be something special.

PRATT: Yeah, they had a great freshman recruiting class. I mean, some terrific players. Um, Stan Key, Mark Soderberg, Randy Noll. Um, maybe left somebody out here. Uh, well, we had Kent Hollenbeck--he came in with Bob McCowan, I think. No, no, Kent Hollenbeck was on that team--he was the other freshman. They were terrific. And we thought we were going to have some depth, and Issel, Casey, and myself are back, Larry Steele. I mean, we were--we were set up to go 00:44:00pretty good at that point in time. A lot of experience, some really good athleticism, and some depth.

MACY: But unfortunately, there was an incident that summer, I--I think it was--

PRATT: --yep, August--

MACY: --that, really changed--changed the course of Kentucky basketball history, pretty much.

PRATT: Ah, yes, it did. Uh, Mace, you can appreciate this. When you come in with a group, um, you have a closeness to some extent. But when you play with two other guys--when three of us played together like the three of us did, um--

MACY: --meaning Issel, Casey, and yourself, right?

PRATT: Correct. It was second nature. You expected people to be places. And I--I used to laugh all the time--I'd bump into Casey trying to find a loose ball. He was there, I was there. You know? I mean, it was just--we fit. The three of us fit so well, um, as a core. And then, around us were awfully good players, too, don't get me wrong. But Casey was like, uh, you know, he was part of the glove. And without him, it was different. It was--we had to get used to--and 00:45:00we were used to Larry, we appreciated Larry. Larry was a terrific defender, good rebounder. Run like the deer, um, at six five. Didn't weigh but buck ninety, buck eighty-five. But he could play. But Case was the part of the glove there that Steele, Issel, and I, you know, was--was--he cut out that(??). So you have to relearn certain situations. You have to build the trust factor. Um, it was difficult, very difficult.

MACY: Do you remember when you found out that he had the accident?

PRATT: I did. I got a call, it was back home in Dayton. I got a call that he had been in the accident right after that. Um, I don't know who called me. Somebody from the athletic department called me. Um, I--and while he was in hospital, I drove down from Dayton on a Saturday to see him. I was working, um, but I drove down to see him, which was a long drive back then.

MACY: Yeah.

PRATT: And he was, uh, lying there in bed and had the leg up in a big cast, and, uh. Quite sad, quite sad, because I really thought with the 00:46:00combination we had, um, we were--we were set to make a serious run. Al Sindor(??) was gone, who's now Jabbar from UCLA. They had a really good team, but he was--he was a difference maker and that was, you know, pre-Walton and all that stuff. So, I mean, this--I thought we were--we were set and ready to go.

MACY: You and Issel were captains of that year's team. And--and, even without Mike being in the lineup, uh, you had Tom Parker and Terry Mills, kind of, maybe--

PRATT: --yep--

MACY: --improved sometime(??). Um, you go 26 and 2. Not a bad year.

PRATT: Yeah. We should have been 26 and 0.

MACY: Yeah.

PRATT: Uh, we could have been the first Kentucky team in years to go undefeated. We go down to Vanderbilt--Tom Parker was a great addition. Left-handed shooter, could rebound. Uh, and Terry Mills really had a nice senior year. Uh, 00:47:00Terry was a terrific shooter, you know--they always talk about his kid, Cameron. Cameron was a good shooter, but he wasn't as good as his dad, and his dad just so happened, in my mind, to be caught up in the numbers game. Same thing that Greg Starrick left. Um, but--but Terry, when you let him sit and gather his feet, he had great range, uh, played very well. Jim Dinwiddie played well, filling it. And McCowan, he got the MVP in the UKIT, um, that year as a junior. Uh, defensively he could guard anybody. He--he could go laterally with anybody. And then of course, Hollenbeck, um, who was hurt that whole year, Mace. But Hollenbeck had that speed and quickness we see in the game now. He was a rocket, but he kept tearing his ankle up, and his foot up. He broke a couple of bones in his--he never was, for an extended stretch, healthy that year.

MACY: So you went, um--you have thirteen games during that season, again, were you over 100 points? Uh, Notre Dame and Louisville, you beat 00:48:00them 102, 100. Who--who was on that, who--

PRATT: --oh. Johnny D. was the coach.

MACY: Right, ok.

PRATT: Johnny D. had Austin Carr.

MACY: Carr was on it too? Yeah.

PRATT: Sid Catlett. I'm naming pros now.

MACY: Yeah.

PRATT: Sid Catlett. Um, Jones. Collis Jones, Sid Catlett, and Austin Carr. All three played in the pros. Mike, um--guy from Cincinnati. I can't think of his last name. Didn't play in the pros but he was a solid guard for that era. But those three guys were pros. I mean, that was--that was a heck of a team. And, you know, Digger takes credit for a lot of things, as Digger does. But, Johnny D., if you look at his teams in the late sixties, they were good. Bobby Arnzen from northern Kentucky played Major League Baseball, played with the Pacers a little bit. Bobby was a heck of a player, I mean, uh, they--they were really good back then. Could score points.

MACY: So you started out--you're 15 and 0--

PRATT: --mm-hm.

MACY: And then you, like--you--you--

PRATT: --go to Vandy.

MACY: --go to Vandy and you lose 89, 81--

PRATT: --mm-hm--

MACY: --for your first loss.

PRATT: Get in foul trouble down there, I believe, if you look at it.

MACY: Is that right?

PRATT: And we, uh--and we lost. And Vandy was not as good that year as they had been, Mace. I mean, they still had Perry Wallace, and they had a guy, Thorpe Weber--who we had tried to recruit--um, playing for them. And they had, a--you know, some nice perimeter players. Vandy, at that time, Mace, always had a lot of Kentucky guys. And a lot of them, I think either wanted to go to Kentucky and weren't recruited, or got down to they didn't--they decided they didn't wanna go. But it was a very intense rivalry because of the mix of Vandy players that were from Kentucky.

MACY: Um, was it--did it become more of a one-two punch than the one-two-three punch from the previous two years?

PRATT: Yeah, I think--I think so. Um, although Steele could score some points, and Mills hit the open jump shots when you--when he got on the same side with--with Issel in--in a Casey-type role where you would have those guys on the same side of the floor. Uh, Terry Mills hit some--hit some jump shots. But, uh, yeah, Dan and I were--were the offensive, uh, guys. But we had some 00:50:00nice, I mean--like I said, Hollenbeck and McCowan had some games.

MACY: I mean, because Issel goes now to 33.86 points a game and you jump over 19 a game.

PRATT: Yeah, I was over 20 at one time in that season.

MACY: Yeah.

PRATT: Yeah.

MACY: So, uh, that's a pretty good adjustment. (laughs)

PRATT: Yeah. Well, it was--it was all good and you know, it was all good. Uh, our roles were the same. I still, uh, was second lead rebounder and, uh, which I was pretty much, I think, every year. Um, I know the last two years, I was. Thad may have beat me out my sophomore year. But, uh, you know, the roles are still the same. I had to rebound, I had to pass. I think I led the team in assists again that year. Um, there may have been more scoring opportunities. But as the season progressed, we got--we got a lot of help from guys(??). Steele had a terrific corner jumpshot. Terry Mills hit some shots. Um, Bob McCowan, bless his heart, uh, would have been--terrific player. I'll tell you who really 00:51:00played well, Mace, was Stan Key.

MACY: Yeah?

PRATT: Stan Key really played well. Stan was a sophomore--got thrust into this position, and he really played well. Really played well.

MACY: So after the, uh, Vandy loss then(??), you don't lose again until you--

PRATT: --correct--

MACY: --get to the NCAA tournament. Mideast regional final, um, you take on Jacksonville in Columbus, Ohio--was it at St. John's Arena?

PRATT: Yes, sir.

MACY: Um, you lose 106 to 100, another high scoring game. Um, Artis Gilmore. Pembrook Burrows.

PRATT: The third. Rex Morgan.

MACY: I--I watched that game on TV.

PRATT: Did you?

MACY: Yeah.

PRATT: They, uh, never, you know, these two seven-footers on one team, particularly one as good as the A-Train. I mean, you know, he was special. Um, and--and Rex Morgan at six five, swing player. But if you look at that--at--at the ballgame, Issel, Steele, and I all foul out between the 10, 11 00:52:00minute mark and the 7 minute mark. Steele being the last one, I believe. So you carve out those three guys, which were three leading scorers. The sophomore class in particular, um, led that team back into that ballgame, kept them until the end. Jacksonville had to make some foul shots and they pulled away. But, uh, the group of, uh, Noll, Soderberg, Parker, Hollenbeck, um, Terry Mills--

MACY: --was it just their size that caused you ------(??)--

PRATT: --they played, they played a zone. That was a big zone, man.

MACY: Yeah.

PRATT: That was a big zone, you know. I mean, they--they--they kept things and, uh, no shot clock, no three point shot, okay? It was a 'grind-em-out' game. And they were big.

MACY: It was 106 to 100! (laughs)

PRATT: Well it was--it was a--believe me, it was tough in there! You know, I mean it was--it was a very difficult game as far as getting open shots against that long zone of theirs.

MACY: Right.

PRATT: Very difficult game. And, uh, uh, I don't know what the shooting percentages were, but there were a lot of shots. But I'm not so sure it was a great shooting percentage. Uh, I have to go back and look. But it was, you know, when you lose your three leading scorers and you're still there at the end--

MACY: --yeah--

PRATT: --you've got to give credit to those guys that came in off the bench, particularly that--that young sophomore class.

MACY: So your senior year, then, you average over 19 points a game, um, headed for 99 assists related, -----(??)-----, you could've had 100. And, uh-- (laughs)

PRATT: And I got Euch to blame. Rest his soul. (laughs)

MACY: And 266 rebounds. So for your career, 1,359 points, 281 assists, and 718 rebounds. As you look across the country, a lot of media guys, they always talk about players who score over 1000, over 250 assists, and over 500 rebounds. And you're in that group.

PRATT: Two things I think I can remember the most, uh-- I mean, I had 00:54:00a lot of great thrills, great teammates--but three straight SEC championships. That's why I came to Kentucky--to--to try to play for a national championship. In those days, you had to win the league.

MACY: Right.

PRATT: So we won three straight.

MACY: Yeah, there was no postseason term--uh--SEC term. It was regular season champions, and they're the only ones.

PRATT: Baby, it was a grind. You played everybody twice, home and away. And we'd go to Mississippi for a weekend and I thought I'd been there a year. I mean--I mean, this was a tough league, man. (laughs) If you go to ------(??) and you go to Oxford, Mace, oh-- uh, take me back to that in a minute. But, those three championships, in that--in sixty-six, Kentucky wins. Tennessee wins in sixty-seven. Now we win three straight, and then two more after that--five straight until Tennessee ties, I believe, in the sixth year--five straight SEC. We were part of three. And I really appreciate that. And the other thing you haven't mentioned--you've done your research, great. Double doubles. I think I had 25, 26 double doubles. And when I came to Kentucky and Dan blew 00:55:00up, Casey was Mr. Basketball and Dan blew up, I knew I had to do other things because it wasn't gonna be, you know, scoring. But in high school, I was asked to do--I played high post or low post in high school, never played out on the floor. So I took it on as a challenge to see how many rebounds I could get. Okay? And I knew I'd have the ball enough to get some assists. But I think I came close once--Russell Rice--the late Russell Rice--told me of getting a triple double. I think I had 8 or 9 assists, rebounds and points were in place. And, uh, he always told me that. And I would have loved to have gotten that, um--

MACY: --you need to get that film, because I'm sure there's a couple assists that they didn't catch. (both laugh)

PRATT: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Uh, but, um, now I've had 25, 26 double doubles. I mean, look I'm very happy with what happened.

MACY: Yeah.

PRATT: And very happy with the guys I played with. They're great friends to this day. Um, Casey and I were extremely close and I miss him dearly. Um, 00:56:00he taught me so much about Kentucky basketball. I'm from Ohio, I really didn't know the history. We'd go back to the dorm--and I know he did with Dan, too, and--and others--and he'd talk about these guys you heard Adolph talk about. Okay? Hagan, Ramsey, Tsioropoulos, so and so, and such and such. You know? It's what he--that's what Coach Rupp compared you to--Cotton Nash. Okay? He'd talk about Cotton. And of course, I remember Cotton being on the cover of Sports Illustrated, you know, getting that at the library, opening it up. But, um, he was our historian on Kentucky basketball. So my time was, uh-- I couldn't have picked a better school. Um, you--you know all that.

MACY: You mentioned earlier about, um, black athletes starting to play in the SEC. You know, if--when you had--you talked about Mississippi, er--did you--were there any instances(??) or were you kinda isolated from all that?

PRATT: No, we were isolated to a point. But I remember as a 00:57:00freshman--Case and I roomed together, Dan was right upstairs--he roomed with Randy Poole. And Jim McDaniels came, and--and, uh, Joe B.'s recruiting Jim McDaniels. And he says, I want to bring him by before we play the freshman game at whatever, then the varsity game--was the end of the season--last game or something. So, Big Mac comes. And I mean, you know, hey, I had seen Henry Finkle, okay, at Dayton. That was the only big guy, like, seven-footer, I had ever seen. Then came Issel at six eight. But Big Mac comes into our dorm room, Dan comes down. We sit there and we talk for half an hour, forty-five minutes. And Mac says, "Man, I'd love to come play with you guys." We're going, "Yeah, well, we'd love to come--have you come play with us too, big fella." (Macy laughs) And, you know, he starts talking, and, uh, and he said, "What do you guys get in here?" And we go, "Nothing." And he goes, "Nothing?" "No. We don't have any cars or anything." So Mac starts talking some more, and 00:58:00talks about Western and this and that. And so Joe B. comes and--or we take him down, and he watches us play, comes in the locker room, and then he also comes in to meet the varsity guys, Louie and Pat and Thad and all them. Um, Joe B. stops us on Monday--we're going to practice. We had one game left, maybe. He said, "How'd it go? How'd it go?" We went, "Good. Nice guy." You know. "Well, you think he's coming?" We go, "No." He goes, "Why?" Said, "Because he asked us what we're getting." "What'd you tell him?" "Nothing." What are we getting? Nothing. (Macy laughs) You know. Joe B.'s like, white as a sheet now. He's going, like, "Oh, no." He really wanted Mac.

MACY: Yeah.

PRATT: And we did, too! And Joby Wright? You mentioned Joby Wright. They--he had him in--he had two or three other guys, so he'd bring African-American players into the locker room. Look, this team--the majority of us--and that's one thing, go back to Al McGuire. George Thompson and I talked about many times-- 00:59:00laughed about--Al played--and he admitted later on, oh--he said, "Hey, you're playing a bunch of honkies, a bunch of crackers," and all this and that. And one time I--I asked Al, when I was in coaching, about it, one time. He was at a clinic and we were--he kind of took a liking to me and he was very--very nice to me. And then I talked to George about it, and, uh--and I said to Al, I said, "Al," I said, "You know, why'd you do that?" I mean, you know--he goes, "Well, I knew it'd excite them." He says--he said, "I probably shouldn't have done it," he told me, he said, "But, you know, Coach, I tried to motivate them." And I said something to George one time about it, and George laughed. And he said, "Well, you know,"--I said, "George, you know, both those years--uh, one year we had two guys from Kentucky that played. One year we had one." I said, "The rest of us(??)--from Ohio, Indiana, Illinois." That didn't make any difference, he said, "We didn't care, it's what Coach said." He said, "We believe everything he said. He'd just try to motivate us." He laughed about it.

MACY: Yeah.

PRATT: Um, it would have been--that team would have taken care of anybody who came on that team. Okay? When we went--when we traveled, we had a 01:00:00sport coat. They gave you a sport coat and a pair of pants. You know that.

MACY: Right.

PRATT: You provided your shirt and tie. So we go to Mississippi my sophomore year. And again, I'd only been out of the state of--of Ohio twice in my life. And so we got to Mississippi. We--Adolph always said, "Get out of the room. Walk around, don't lay in there and--

MACY: --right--

PRATT: --fool around." So we got out, three or four of us, five of us, walk uptown. I stayed in the Holiday Inn there in Oxford. Saturday afternoon after practice--after breakfast and everything, we'd walk around, three blocks up. First time in my life. And, not saying Dayton was a great race place. I'm not getting into that. That's not here. But I had never seen a white in what was termed a colored water fountain, a restroom. And they both were in Mississippi--in Oxford, Mississippi, in 1968. And I thought, wow, 01:01:00wow. You know, I mean, where is this coming from? You know, I would never--um, it would have been very difficult. I admire Perry Wallace, um, tremendously for what he did. I think if Kentucky would have had a African-American basketball player or two, we'd have covered them all the way around. They'd have been taken care of by the teammates. Um, I know after I left, Casey came back and I know he was--he got to be very close with Big Tom Payne. He looked after Big Tom, uh, I know that for a fact. And um, I--I--many times think that it would have been pretty--pretty cool if we could have gotten one of those guys that Joe B. had recruited in there. And, you know, I--I--I read it--what Perry Wallace said. I guess they recruited Perry, too--Harry and Adolph recruited--or Harry recruited. And Perry said, "I didn't feel comfortable going to Kentucky because 01:02:00Coach Rupp never came to my house or came to see me play." He never saw me play, he never came to my house.

MACY: I was gonna say, he didn't do any of them, did he? (laughs)

PRATT: Yeah. And I don't think he ever came to Issel's house or--or saw Issel play. That was--he and John Wooden. I remember talking with, uh, Denny Crowe many times, and Denny laughed. He had to beg John Wooden to come down to San Diego from L.A. to see Bill Walton. He never saw Jabbar play. Okay? Those guys were legends, they were the top of their business. They didn't do that. And, man, we--if we would have had Perry Wallace, or Big Mac--Joby Wright was a nice player. And I mean, gee--I--I--eh, in that--the--the team that was there--I know those guys, they were all about winning, man. They were all about winning and they would've taken care of anybody.

MACY: As you look back at your Kentucky career and the effect it's had, um, on your life, how do you try to explain that to people? I mean, everybody talks about the craziness, whatever-- of the Big Blue Nation and whatever. But--

PRATT: --we lived in a--

MACY: --your own--your own personal, I guess--

PRATT: --we lived in a small glass bowl. The glass bowl is huge now.

MACY: Yeah.

PRATT: And, uh, you lived in a--somewhere between us--

MACY: --right--

PRATT: --and now. Okay? It got bigger when you got here. Um, you--you have to use it to your advantage is all I can tell you. You have to use your career, and your time, and all the contacts, to your advantage. And I--I know talking, uh, with many former players--a lot of guys have done a lot better job than I have. I've been fortunate in some areas to be able to capitalize on--on playing here. I probably left a lot of opportunities on the table. Um, but, saying that, the opportunities are there if you use them, if you want to--if you choose to use them in whatever area you decide to go, Mace. And, uh, if you, uh--if you think big picture, which is hard nowadays--and you think, look, what I'm 01:04:00doing now will resonate down the road. And-and try talking to some guys that are older. They don't have to be my age, they can be your age or in their forties. Uh, talk to these guys and see what--what it's meant, how they've utilized their contacts and what they've done, and how they've parlayed that. Uh, if you want to, it could be a real advantage. I mean, uh, Kentucky Wildcat Nation--Big Blue Nation--they don't forget you. And there's opportunities if you keep your nose clean, you present yourself properly, and--and you communicate with them. Sometimes that's hard, sometimes it can be a pain in the butt. I get that. Okay? I understand that. But, um, you've gotta take your three or four years, one year, whatever it is, and you've got to make it work for you.

MACY: Um, after you go off and play pro ball, you get into coaching, head-coaching, a lot of different things--but then you decide--you come back now as the radio color man. And how many years have you been doing that now?

PRATT: Fifteen.

MACY: Fifteen, and--

PRATT: --took your job, man! (Macy laughs) And you were moving on to coaching. I was getting out of coaching, you were moving on.

MACY: Yeah, everybody makes mistakes every now and then. Uh--(both laugh)--what--what's your favorite part of doing that job, though? Being a color man?

PRATT: Well, you know, I did a lot of television--did NCAA games with NCAA productions and, uh, did the first year of the original Charlotte Hornets in the first month before I went on the bench. So I got--I got a lot of TV memories. But I think radio, um, my--my--I will tell you, my daughter went to Missouri. She was in broadcast journalism, graduated with honors, fell in love, and decided she wasn't going to track all around the country. Her husband, uh, her fiance at the time was in law school, so she's got a background in all this stuff. You know, she got into business, using all the stuff that she learned in the communication. So I called her up. I said, "Tamara, I'm thinking about getting out of, uh, the television," because I was doing a lot of games for FOX, "and doing the radio. What do you think?" And she said--we talk a little bit about it. And she said, "Well, Pop, I'll tell you the last thing that 01:06:00I'm gonna tell you." This is my daughter. She says, "You're not getting any older. Radio's made for older people." So I get into it that way. And, um, Tom--I believe Tom's first year was my first year he'd been doing radio. So when, thanks to Brooks Downing and Larry Ivy, Jim Host--they all got me involved in it. I called Tom--I said, "Tom, let's meet at Host, and I'd like to just put a game on that--you and I do, and I want to see what it feels like." Because I had had the opportunity to do games with Marty Brennaman, Tommy Hammond, um, just a ton of guys. You know, Dave Neal, just big time--Teddy Robinson, doing these ballgames. And I just wanted to get a feel for Tom. I'd listened to him on football and, ----(??) loved him. Jeff and ----(??) love him. So we--we drive up--I drive up and I meet him there at Host, we do a half(??) and I said, "That's enough." I said, "We'll be fine." And I knew that there 01:07:00was--he was easy to work with. I understood my role. I had listened to him on radio. And it's been a great, uh--it's been--been a great relationship for Tom and I, Jim Barnhart. We, uh, we are dear friends. Um, and I think it's made it easier, Mace. Because, you know, from television where you're the star, you go to radio, where you're the sidekick, (Macy laughs) and it's a little different. Um, but Tom's given me plenty of room, and it's been a lot of fun. Um, we've had some heartbreak years, those two with Billy Clyde were testing years. Had some heartbreak games with Tubby where you could've gotten to the Final Four, but with a shot or a foul in Minneapolis, an injury to Bogans, uh, two--double--double overtime in, uh, Austin with, uh, Michigan State. I mean, we were that close with the Tub Man(??) to go into the Final Four. And then Cal comes along and we--we're spoiled now. We're going the Final Four quite often. It's been a lot of fun. It's been, uh, fun to see these different 01:08:00players and then turn the tube on(??) and watch a little NBA. See these guys here. Um, it's every coach who's been here, Mace, has been different. I mean, put--put my playing career aside. Tubby--of course, I knew Tubby since he was a high school coach at Hoke County and I was a snot-nosed assistant at UNC [University of North Carolina] Charlotte. So--but I've watched Tubby and his--his coaching style. Um, and then you have Billy and his style, and now you got Cal. I mean, every one of them have been different. It's been interesting to watch how--how it's different, and it's different because the kids change.

MACY: Yeah.

PRATT: The generations change. You have to deal with them, many ways, differently.

MACY: I want to ask you about some certain things just to--to kind of get your take on--uh, number one, and I don't know--junior, senior year, whatever. But, um, when you all played LSU [Louisiana State University] with Pete Maravich--

PRATT: --mm-hm.

MACY: --and he had a ton of points, it's--

PRATT: --every year.

MACY: Issel had a ton of points. And--and you-- you kind of got lost 01:09:00in that. You--you had a few points too, right? (laughs)

PRATT: I did. I--I did have some points. Uh, yeah.

MACY: Tell me a little bit about that game to begin with, though.

PRATT: Well, let me tell you about the first time we played Pete.

MACY: Now, what year was this?

PRATT: This was sixty-eight.

MACY: Okay.

PRATT: First time we played Pete was down at LSU, if I've got my years right. Down at LSU. And we'd heard all about Pete Maravich, okay? And they weren't real good then. By the time Pete left they got pretty good. They finished runner-up in the NIT to McGuire's team. And there were only 24 teams in the NCAA, 16 in the NIT. I mean, that was the cream of the crop. Okay? That was like all to--1 to 3 Seed, something like that. 1 through 4 Seed. Um, we go down there and it was a warm January day, I believe--February--whenever it was. And they played on dirt in the Cow Palace, down there.

MACY: Was it the old stockyard?

PRATT: Yeah, the Ag Center.

MACY: Ag Center--yeah, that's right.

PRATT: Floor's raised over dirt.

MACY: Right.

PRATT: You know, the shower was small. You--you--you took a shower, you came out, put that outfit on, you're sweating again--I mean, it was awful. 01:10:00(Macy laughs) But we have the scatter(??) report on this guy, and we'd heard about him. We'd read Sports Illustrated, you know? But there's no--we--we saw him a little bit on television--game the week before we got there. We're watching the film on him and we still can't believe it. I mean, you know, this guy--man, he does things that we all wish we could do, right? I mean, behind his back, through his legs, over his shoulder, all of that stuff. We're going, "That's cool. That is really cool. Can't do that. Can't do that at Kentucky." (Macy laughs) You know. (laughs) So we go down there and we're in, uh--Issel gets the tip, we go to, uh--I think he scores. Somebody scores. We're back in a 1-3-1. Coach Rupp basically said, "You can get what you want, but nobody else is gonna beat us." Kinda like playing Oscar Robertson--something, back in those--Jerry West, you know, uh, professionally. But, uh, Pete comes down, crosses midcourt dribbling, but two dribbles past midcourt, lets it go. Misses everything and away we go. I mean, we're back up the floor and I'm thinking, "This is gonna be a lot of fun." A lot more fun than even I thought, because it was like--and uh, he was--he was amazing. I mean, we--we'd go out, 01:11:00Mace. We--I don't know if Joe had this, but practice started at three o'clock, three thirty. We shot from three to three thirty.

MACY: Right.

PRATT: And, uh, for most of that time, the coaches were out watching, and you had certain places you shot, certain things you did. But if you got out there early you could play Pete Maravich. You could do some things and do all that stuff, and laugh and joke with your teammates. And then when Louie went to the ABA, we follow--start following the ABA, and we'd act like we're shooting three points. And there was nothing on television, you just read about it.

MACY: Right.

PRATT: Okay? We'd go over, uh, to see an exhibition game, maybe. But we'd get get out there and do that stuff behind our back. And, uh, I think Doug Flynn told this story on me(??) one time. He was a freshman, was watching us practice. And I came down the floor and I went behind my back with a pass and it worked. And all I heard from Coach Rupp was something like, "Damn, well and 01:12:00good. That--that worked," or something like that. But he--you know, he knew I was messing with him, okay?

MACY: Right.

PRATT: And I came down, went behind--that's the one time I ever tried it, in--in--in practice, but, uh, not--never in the games. But we loved playing Pete because he was fun to play against. I mean, you'd just get caught in watching him. It was cool. And then, they didn't guard anybody. Now, by the time he was a senior they had some big guys--Apple, Sanders, Danny Hester, and another guy can't remember. Big, strong guys who played professionally someplace. Um, it was fun, man. It was like a track meet.

MACY: So what was the game? He had 63, Dan had 56, and you had--

PRATT: --20 somebody.

MACY: But nobody talks about your 20-some.

PRATT: Well. (Macy laughs) I'm glad you brought it up. I'm glad you brought it up. No--

MACY: --were those the right numbers? 63, 56?

PRATT: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was, uh--(Macy laughs) you know, it was a--it was always fun. And I think I always played well against LSU. Um, they were not a challenge to score against. Uh, and we went 01:13:00inside early, and of course that game, they had a nice back line(??). Again, Issel had a big game. Um, Pete--I think after the first year around with us decided--or his dad realized--that we were going to give him what he wanted.

MACY: Yeah.

PRATT: We were gonna -----(??)-----. And he--he just loved it. I mean, I--I--one time Pete told us, uh, he wish he would have come to Kentucky because he would have loved to play with us. And he was about winning. He--he thought that would've--you know.

MACY: Yeah.

PRATT: And I--he was a terrific passer. I mean, you put him on a--on a team where he didn't have to shoot all the time, he'd make you a better player.

MACY: Yeah. Um, now, I--I don't know if this is the right time frame--now--Johnny Neumann? Was he at -------(??)?

PRATT: After--

MACY: --he was after, okay--

PRATT: --no, he was after. Yeah. Yeah, he was--he was a Pete wannabe.

MACY: Yeah.

PRATT: Uh, he could shoot it a lot and would shoot a lot, but he wasn't the passer Pete was. He wasn't the showman Pete was.

MACY: How was it, um, playing in Memorial?

PRATT: Special. Uh, you talked to opponents you'd get to know 01:14:00afterwards. Like the Tennessee guys--that was a great rivalry, and they said that you couldn't--you couldn't hear--you--Ray Mears talk--talk to other people playing in there. When that crowd got going, um--it was, uh--it was amazing. Short ceiling. Okay? Very short. Much like Fall Gallen(??). We saw that Saturday night.

MACY: Right.

PRATT: Short ceiling, noise goes up, drops right back on you. And we played, uh, Tennessee my sophomore year, we talked about--got drilled down there. They threw oranges at us, the football team was hollering and cussing at us. So when they come back to Lexington, and of course, the--Tennessee, Vandy, Kentucky, are battling it out. Um, they get ready for the introduction. Of course, they did the unicycle, uh, Mace. You know, they went out, juggled a ball, did all this, now. Fans are on them the whole time, place is sold out as usual. Students are into it. Uh, it's on a Monday night, I believe. So they get ready to announce--introduce the Tennessee team and--P.A., man, uh, goes, "And for the Tennessee Vols." Everybody's booing, okay? Booing. All of a sudden 01:15:00oranges come out of the student section, all over the place (Macy laughs), right at the Tennessee bench. They have to stop the game to clean it up. Five minutes later, okay? Coach Rupp walks up to the P.A. system, grabs a microphone. He starts talking to the crowd. "Now, we're better than that. You know, this is Kentucky. We don't want to do that." And they're cheering him, you know, and everything. So he's walking back toward us--we're standing there by our bench. He gets close and he winks and--got a grin on his face. And all of a sudden they start the introduction again--more oranges come out on the floor. (both laugh) They got to clean them up. And man, it was a--it was a zoo, but it was always sold out, standing room only, for most games. Um, it was a--we--we had, uh--as freshmen, there--there would be a lot of times when we'd have a bigger crowd than the varsity that year when they were 13 and 13. I mean, we'd have ten thousand for a freshman game.

MACY: Uh, tell me a little bit about the, uh, Joe B. Hall conditioning program you went through.

PRATT: It was the ugliest conditioning program. (Macy laughs) God almighty. Um, it was, uh--you know, Adolph never came to it. Not once in my career did Adolph come to it. Um, Joe believed in it. We'd run from the Coliseum up to the track, which was next to the sports complex where football practiced. And then we'd do--every, uh--you know, it was like five weeks, five days a week. Or six weeks, five days a week. And later on in that, uh, circuit, we would go run cross-country on Thursdays--Tuesdays and Thursdays. But it was all sprints to 220s, 100s, 440s, um, all for time. And, uh, it was brutal. It was brutal.

MACY: Eh--eh, uh, Coach Hall got a little resistance when he 01:17:00implemented the program, right?

PRATT: Yeah, he did. No, no, no. No, he'd already had the program in. My senior year, uh, is what you're referring to. You've got a grin on your face there. (Macy laughs) My senior year, um, Joe tried to turn the thing around, do something--I forget what it was. And the guys kind of went on, uh--they--it was termed later on a strike. It really wasn't. Dan and I went in and said, "Coach Rupp," to Coach Rupp, we said, "Coach, you know, this thing is--some of the guys, you know. It's kind of getting out of--" And it was an extra week or something. It was something really small. We need to consider that. And, uh, he said, "Well, I'll consider it." So then he goes off to speak at some clinic, he's gone. And there's no change. And so everybody says, "Let's just not run one day." One day. We're not gonna run. I mean, this is the protest era, you know? (Macy laughs) One day, we're not going to run. So it becomes a big deal. He gets back and--and Joe tells him. So, he calls Dan in and talks to Dan. 01:18:00So, he has, uh--Harry--or, actually Happy Chandler and Harry called me and told--asked me to get the team back and come back to run the next day. And I said, "That'll be no problem. I think we planned on coming back anyway." And so, uh, we gathered everybody up and everybody, uh, went back to running the next day. And Joe kind of backed off a little bit. It was kind of a meeting of, uh, of the minds. But um, yeah, Happy Chandler called me--former Governor Happy. And Harry called me. And Happy was a smooth talker, Harry was, "Get your ass back. Get the guys' asses back, or else."

MACY: Did you ever talk to Dan, what his meeting with, uh, Coach Rupp--?

PRATT: As I understand it, Coach Rupp told him he would make sure he'd be the all-time leading scorer--

MACY: --yeah--

PRATT: --at Kentucky. Now, uh, that was my understanding. And that's okay. You know, I mean, look, Issel was destined to be the all-time leading scorer anyway.

MACY: Right.

PRATT: I didn't--and, you know, he was our guy. He was the straw that stirred the drink offensively. So, but that's--according to Dan, that's what 01:19:00he told him. Yeah.

MACY: What was, uh--what was it like playing for Coach Rupp? And--and in that, I guess I have to say, because everyone we've interviewed that's played for him--if you feel like you want to do your impersonation, it seems like everybody who played for him, has their own impersonation. You--feel free to go and break into that impersonation--

PRATT: --well--

MACY: --and like a favorite story.

PRATT: Uh, playing it for him was, uh, trying. Because back in those days, they tried--they--Bob Knight and a bunch of very successful coaches--they tried to break you down to see what you could tolerate and then build you back up. And if you were strong enough to get through the breaking down process, everything was good. Um, my--my thing was, I had a dad that fought World War II the whole time--climbed telephone poles for a living. It was like he was a drill sergeant, okay? So in my high school, Coach was a drill sergeant. And so, I was 01:20:00okay with all that. (Macy laughs) It wasn't my favorite thing, but I mean, I had been there, done that. My high school football coach was the same way. I mean, that's kind of the era. I was okay, but some guys couldn't handle that.

MACY: Yeah.

PRATT: And, uh, Coach Rupp--you just had--what's that saying now, Mace, where they say, "Don't listen to how he says it, listen to what he says?" And my whole thing was I didn't listen except when he was talking what he wanted to do. He could carp and bitch and moan. That's okay. You know? And some of my teammates will tell you that they thought my nickname was "Goddamn, Pratt," you know? (Macy laughs) And that was okay. As long as I was playing, Mace, that's all I wanted. I wanted to play. Don't take me out, let me play because I'm gonna play hard for you. Let me play. But, um, he really wasn't that hard to play with--play for, if you took the attitude, "Look, just play." And he wanted to carp and bitch at you about things, but he was going to leave you in 01:21:00if he thought he could win with you. His whole thing was winning, believe me. And, um, whenever he went to the face, like this, and went down, you were in trouble. He had that motion. I thought--when he went like this, I knew--I knew he was in trouble. Um, couple quick stories. My junior year, we were playing Mississippi and they weren't very good. And we're up halftime, and up good. He comes in the locker room--he always gave his coat to the trainer over here, it was a small little locker room. And, he started off and he got--he went right down--he's standing there, and he goes, "And you! And you! And you! And you!" Of course, he got to Dan--he kinda did okay with Dan, you know? (Macy laughs) You're not mess up with the big fella. And uh, he gets to the one guy in the back row that hadn't gotten in. And he goes, "And you. And you--" trying to think of what he could say. "You little son of a bitch." (Macy laughs) That's what he said to him. That was a good--we're all putting towels over our heads, you know, we're laughing, trying not to laugh. And then, the other 01:22:00time was, he called time out, one time that year--I was a junior. And he, uh--

MACY: --now, if you want to do this in his voice, go ahead and imitate him.

PRATT: I can't do his voice. (Macy laughs) Um, some people do it much better than I did. But, he calls time out. He never sat down, he stood up because he was older. So we're all gathered around, and Issel's behind him, and guys are in--Casey and I are kind of over here in this part of the huddle, you know, and he's talking. And he looked at Casey and I and he says, "Do you boys know who this boy is?" Points like this, to Issel. We're all going, "Uh-oh. (Macy laughs) We got some problems here." And he says, "His name is Dan Issel. Please pass him the ball." And he's looking right at Casey and I. You know? You know, we're wanting to laugh, okay? We're wanting to laugh. We're just, "Okay, Coach. Okay." So we break the huddle and go out. Issel comes by and pats me on the butt, nods, you know, like that. So we went down and passed him the ball quite a 01:23:00few times. Then we went back to shooting. But he didn't think we'd got the big fella the ball enough, he was probably right. But that's--that's how he operated. You know, I mean, that's--when he looked at us and said, "Do you know who he is--this boy's name is?" And I'm going, "[rolls eyes] Oh, yeah, we know who is."

MACY: He was kind of superstitious, too, wasn't he?

PRATT: Very superstitious. Brown suit. Pick up bobby pins. Uh, we stayed at the same hotels, ate the same food. By the time I was a senior, Cloyd Vaughn, the trainer, would ask us if we wanted steak tonight or, you know, what--what we wanted. It was really ironic, um, you know, he brought the beef from his, um, farm, to--for us to eat, and gave it to the University to be cooked, cut up for what we ate game day(??). And, uh, he was--he used to make fun of Tennessee--Ray Mears, who--they had pancakes, and orange Jell-O, which was awful. Right? It turns out that, you know, Mears was way ahead of his time. I think 01:24:00that we had too much steak. I mean, we--we eat--guys nowadays have it different in many ways, better in many ways. But if you--if you are a talented athlete now, you can't help but improve your performance with what they have now versus back in the day. I mean, it's just, uh, something as small as, uh--as, uh, shoes. Okay? And I'm not saying you become an all-star if you're not. I'm just saying improve your performance. There was no real movement to improve your performance. Um, Joe tried with the running program. Joe tried. And that was very important. I thought it was too long. When I got into coaching, Mace, I cut that program down to about twelve days, fourteen days, somewhere in there. And we were doing like six weeks, five days a week, thirty days.

MACY: I was going to ask you, too--when you got into coaching, how much of the stuff--the major influence-- was that from your playing days? Or from 01:25:00other coaches, then afterwards, that you'd been around? Or did you catch yourself saying, "Man, that sounded just like Adolph?"

PRATT: Yeah, I did. I did. (Macy laughs) No question. And of course, the guy I broke into coaching with, Lee Rose, uh, did a lot of things that Adolph did. He was--he had been C.M. Newton's assistant at Transylvania--took over Transylvania himself. So he had a lot of the Coach Rupp--for example, uh, back in the day, we went off the scoreboard. Everything, every drill, everything was off the scoreboard at Memorial. Right? Adolph was ahead of his time in that regard. Well Coach Rose--Lee Rose did that, and I did that. We had it down to the seconds, you know? And I learned--that was a pass-down from--from Adolph to Lee Rose, C.M. Newton, Lee Rose, to me when I was in coaching. And, uh, I think I was more cognizant--and--and Coach Rupp was too--of late in the year trying to keep the guys' legs. Okay? I was more cognizant of that. I think that came from my professional influence more than college. But, uh, no, I--I tried 01:26:00to--it was funny. Bobby Tallent, who played here for two years--he was coaching George Washington and we were in a tournament together and we had to play them. And Bobby ran a lot of Coach Rupp's stuff and I knew it. And afterwards he told me, said, "I knew you knew what we were running." (Macy laughs) You know? And, uh, yeah, yeah. There was a lot of influence. Awful lot.

MACY: Uh, let me just ask you about a couple of players. You've talked a lot about them already.

But just so we can have it on tape. Um, whether you want to talk about them as a player, or them off the court. However you wanna do it. Um, Mike Casey.

PRATT: Um, great basketball IQ, great competitor. Um, terrific nose for the ball. Uh, wonderful teammate, wonderful teammate.

MACY: Dan--

PRATT: --all about winning.

MACY: Dan Issel?

PRATT: He would be a stretch forward today in this--in this world. He 01:27:00could do that. I believe he could do that. Um, such a good offensive player, such a strong rebounder, such a tough guy. When he played, I mean, he really was a tough guy. He invited the contact. He wanted to get to the charity stripe. Uh, big time competitor. Again, a very special teammate.

MACY: Adolph Rupp?

PRATT: Tough, hard nosed old German. And uh, but, saying that, he cared about his players. He loved to talk about--when I was there, the guys that were lawyers, doctors, and teachers. Um, he didn't go on and on about the guys--Hagan, Ramsey, Tsioropoulos guys, who had--before us, had played in the pros. He didn't go on about, uh, Riley or Dampier, who were in it at the time. He was--he was very big about the academic piece, and he was very much into--uh, he'd have guys back. Guys would come back, and he'd bring them out, and introduce them. "Now he's a--he's a minister," or, "He's a coach, 01:28:00high school coach." Or, "He's a doctor." "He's a lawyer." He was really big on that. And, um, I--I think that's something dismissed about him.

MACY: Now you didn't play, uh, with him, but Louie Dampier overlapped.

PRATT: Yeah. I played in the pros with him.

MACY: Right.

PRATT: And, uh--uh, another really special teammate. Uh, good friend to this day. One of the quickest releases that I've seen, and I've seen Dell Curry, Steph Curry's dad, coached him--a lot of really quick release guys, but Louie's as good as it gets. Another thing gets missed in the Louie Dampier shuffle is that he could shoot it in the crowd. He was a tough guy, and about, what--six, six one? Louie was--uh, amazed me. He could hit that open shot--would pull up and shoot it in a heartbeat. But he could shoot. They'd--they'd run at him, and they'd bump him. He got that ball off, he could take the hit. Man, he--he was one terrific offensive player.

MACY: Pat Riley?

PRATT: You know, I--I watched Riley play. Uh, never played with him, but watched him as a freshman. Very, very intense competitor. Um, would--would just compete. I mean, he could--he didn't have the shot that Dampier had, but he was a competitor and a terrific rebounder. A heck of an athlete.

MACY: Um--

PRATT: --how about Thad Jaracz?

MACY: Yeah. Let's, yeah.

PRATT: Yeah. Thad Jaracz, um, left-handed. Played center in Rupp's Runts. I played with him when I was a sophomore. He was a senior. Competitive guy. Would rebound. Um, probably had the best--Coach Rupp had guys, that, when they--you know, pulled up, made a basket--to trigger the break, they grabbed the ball and out leaded the ball, and then filled a lane--either a lane that was vacant or a trailer. Thad was as good as I've ever seen it inbound. I mean, the ball did not lay there. I mean, that's one of the things that irks me, Mace. (Macy 01:30:00laughs) I mean, you gotta--if you want to break, you've got inbound some ball. If--if you wanna break, you've got to have an outlet pass, okay, that triggers the break. That's kind of been lost because everybody wants to dribble now. But Thad was terrific. I mean, he would compete. He'd go to war on the boards, and was a lockdown defender. And he would belly up to you and defend, physically. What--Larry Steele was just like Thad on starting the break, and could run it better than Thad. He was fast. But he could run it. But man, he was a lockdown defender, and he was all elbows. If you know Larry, he was six five and skinny. He--he's up there, and when he played with the Trailblazers, six-man, and he did the same thing. He was up in your jersey, up in your numbers, banging and knocking on your first skinny guy. Thad did it because he was physical, could push you around. Uh, two--two very, very special players.

MACY: As you do the games now and--and then reflect back on your 01:31:00career, what--what would you like to see the game implement, maybe from your time? Or what--what change, if you a commissioner of basketball--college basketball, what changes would you like or take away? Or--?

PRATT: I love the three point shot. You could make it a little longer, but I love it. I think it adds something to the game. I--I would widen the lane. And--I've become a disciple now of allowing somebody to either get six fouls, or after the fifth foul, they don't foul out, but you have a progression of penalties, okay? So--

MACY: --and why is that? How has that come about, your change of thinking?

PRATT: Well, I played in one game where I think foul trouble was--I mean, when you foul out your three leading scorers--

MACY: --right--

PRATT: --Issel, Steele, and I--and as a senior, I saw that. And then playing in the pros, you know, you had six fouls. Right?

MACY: Right.

PRATT: I mean, you get kinda used to that. I mean, you get to--you 01:32:00get to--in the pros, you get to four--and you go, "Okay, I got two more." You change your game a little bit, but you're still comfortable, right? You get to five, you're still pretty calm, because they're not gonna blow any fouls. (laughs) Not the pros. Not many, anyway. Um, but in college, I see guys, uh, change their game with the third foul

MACY: Yeah.

PRATT: Okay? They change their game, and, uh, it takes away from the team. I think I would like to see six, and then a progression of penalties upward, based upon seven, eight, nine, ten.

MACY: Yeah.

PRATT: And maybe ten's the foul-out number base. I don't know.

MACY: That should be enough. (laughs)

PRATT: Yeah, that should be enough. Maybe eight, okay? But--but I think that if you're going to sit a guy--you know, it's--it's, uh--and I'm not saying that because of when we did this taping, but I think that would be--and the wider lane, I think would be good. I think that would encourage two things. Would encourage one thing, the big guys developing better basketball skills, instead of wanting to be stretches-- because there's more things you could do.

MACY: Right.

PRATT: And it wouldn't be as cluttered. It would take the clutter from the defense. It would make you make a decision defensively--where you're gonna get the help from--because what it exposes, how much help you're gonna get--it's got to clean a lot of that up. It's also gonna let smaller players play in the paint. I see the college game going in this--this way now, because of the NBA stubbornness--in the NBA Players Association, stubbornness to take these kids out early.

MACY: Right.

PRATT: You're seeing most of the big guys are leaving early, okay? Because the NBA says, I wanna draft you on potential, I'm gonna work with you. They don't really--you know, they've got money to spend, they've got a draft they've gotta do. There's no passing in the draft, you've gotta to pick somebody.

MACY: Right.

PRATT: So, I--I think that would allow smaller players to play in the paint and be effective, Mace, and score some points. Make the game interesting.

MACY: Let me, uh, just close, then, by asking you, uh, if--like, 01:34:00how--how--fifty years from now, UK fans look back and they hear the name Mike Pratt. How--how would you'd like for them, what would you like them, to think about you as a player at the University of Kentucky? Or as a person, as a radio color guy, as--as Mike Pratt?

PRATT: I--I think I would appreciate people remembering me as a guy that came to Kentucky and--and got the most out of his time, and got the most benefits that he could possibly get from those times ongoing throughout his life. And somebody that really cares deeply about the University.

MACY: Great. You got anything else you want to add? All right. You got any comments you wanna add?

PRATT: No, I think, uh--I think we hit most of them. Um, yeah, I think we hit most of them. There's a lot of stories you can tell. Some of them you don't wanna tell. (Macy laughs) But, a lot of stories you can tell.