Interview with Wajahat Hussain, June 16, 2005

Partial Transcript: --Azizabad, another place, later. These people arrived later.

Segment Synopsis: Hussain talks about why the good intentions of communalism failed in Pakistan. He talks about Mohamed Ali Jinnah, who brought Mohandas Gandhi back from South Africa to work in the Indian independence movement. Hussain then discusses how he feels that the Indian National Congress refused to include Muslim representatives, leading to a movement for a separate state. He also talks about the fact that even though the Lahore resolution did not specify an official religion in Pakistan, Islam still played an important role.

Keywords: Aligarh (India); All-India Muslim League, the; Azad, Maulana Abdul Kalam; British; Communalism; Constitutions, Pakistan; Constitutions, Pakistan, 1956; Demonstrations; Families; Fathers; Gandhi, Mohandas; Hindus; India; Indian National Congress; Indian independence movement; Islam; Islamic states; Jamaat-i-Islami (IJT); Jinnah, Mahomed Ali; Khaliquzzaman, Chaudhry; Khan, Liaquat Ali; Lahore resolution; Mullahs; Muslims; Organizations, Islamic; Pakistan movement; Pakistan resolution; Pakistan, partition; Partition; Partition of Pakistan; Political parties, religious; Provincial governments; Punjab (India); Religions; Secularism; South Africa; United Provinces of Agra and Oudh (India); United provinces

Subjects: Aligarh (India); All-India Muslim League.; British; Communalism.; Constitutions; Demonstrations.; Families; Fathers; Gandhi, Mahatma, 1869-1948.; Hindus; India; India--History.; Indian National Congress.; Islam; Jamāʻat-i Islāmī (India); Jinnah, Mahomed Ali, 1876-1948.; Khan, Liaquat Ali, 1895-1951.; Muslims; Pakistan; Pakistan--History; Partition.; Provincial governments; Punjab (India); Religions; South Africa

Partial Transcript: In your discussion with him there, at the university, did the issue of Islam come up as such?

Segment Synopsis: Hussain talks about Jinnah’s vision for Pakistan, which was against corruption, nepotism, and favoritism. He then talks about why he feels religion should be a personal decision. Hussain also speaks about why he does not feel that there should be any difference between Muslim identity and Islamic identity. He then talks about the conflict between Muslims and Hindus on the Indian subcontinent.

Keywords: Al Qaeda; Aligarh Muslim University; All-India Muslim League; Babur; Bhutto, Zulfikar Ali; British East India Company; Communalism; Conservatism, religious; Corruption; Education; Favoritism; France; French; Fundamentalism, Islamic; Great Britain; Hindus; Hyderabad (India); Indian Rebellion of 1857; India’s First War of Independence; Iqbal, Muhammad; Islam; Islamic states; Jinnah, Mohamed Ali; Jung; Khaliquzzaman, Chaudhry; Khan, Syed Ahmad; Moghul Empire; Mosques; Muslims; Nepotism; Pakistan; Partition; Partition of Pakistan; Religions; Saudi Arabia; Sects, Wahhabi; Sharif, Shehbaz; Turkey; Wahhabis; Wahhabism; Wahhabiyah

Subjects: Al-Qaeda & jihadi movements worldwide; Aligarh Muslim University; All-India Muslim League; Babur, Emperor of Hindustan, 1483-1530.; Bhutto, Zulfikar Ali, 1928-1979.; Communalism; Corruption.; East India Company.; Education; France; French; Fundamentalism.; Great Britain; Hindus; Hyderabad (India); India--History.; Iqbal, Muhammad; Islam; Jinnah, Mahomed Ali, 1876-1948.; Mosques; Muslims; Nepotism.; Pakistan--History; Partition; Religion; Saudi Arabia; Turkey; Wahhābīyah.

Partial Transcript: And so, when you joined the army, in the--after the end of the war, thinking that you might be called to the European or the East Asian theater at first, probably, could you have imagined then that you would actually be spending a lot of your early time defending Indians against other Indians?

Segment Synopsis: Hussain talks about the fact that the Indian National Army (INA) was initially formed to be a secular organization. He then talks about the precepts of the Indian National Army (INA), including minimal use of force and fairness. Hussain also discusses the Hindu-Muslim riots that occurred in the 1940s.

Keywords: Communal riots; Communalism; Dadra and Nagar Haveli (India); Fairness; Fathers; Hindu-Muslim riots; Hindus; India; Indian Military Academy (IMA); Indian National Army (INA); Magistrates; Matra (India); Minimal force; Mobs; Non-commissioned officers; Pakistan; People trees; Police; Punjab (India); Riots, Hindu-Muslim; Soldiers

Subjects: Communalism; Dādra and Nagar Haveli (India); Fairness.; Fathers; Hindus; India; India--History.; Indian Military Academy; Indian National Army.; Mobs.; Pakistan; Pakistan--History; Police; Punjab (India); Riots; Soldiers

Partial Transcript: I'll give you a very good book that has just been published last year by a very eminent professor of art, uh, Dr. Raffique, on the civil and military relations and tracing the whole history, how it has developed in Pakistan, especially since the president, uh, the president took over in nineteen nineteen nine and where the, the social and the political make-up and the various, uh, pressures that were working and pulling too, different directions.

Segment Synopsis: Hussain discusses the British handling of different faiths within the Indian National Army during colonial rule. He then talks about the manner in which the British separated different classes in the army into either martial (in the case of Punjabis) or non-martial (in the case of Bengalis) groups. Hussain then talks about the introduction of Indian commanding officers into the Indian National Army in the 1940s. Hussain talks about the ways in which the British commanding officers communicated with their soldiers, who spoke many different languages. He then talks about the differences between officers trained at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst and the Indian Military Academy (IMA).

Keywords: Bahai Faith.; Baha’is; Battalions; Bengalis; British; British Army; British Indian Army; British units; Buddhists; Cavalry; Christians; Classes; Colonialism; Commanders; Commanding officers; Communalism; Communication; Discipline; English language; Equality; Fairness; Frontiers; Germans; Great Britain; Hindus; Hindustani language; India; Indian Army; Indian Military Academy (IMA); Indian food; Indian music; Indian units; Indians; Infantry; Italians; Kashmir (India); King Edward VII; Languages; Martial; Muslims; Muslims officers; Non-martial; North Africans; Officers, Muslim; Pakistan; Pashto language; Punjab (India); Punjabi language; Regiments; Religions; Royal Military Academy Sandhurst; Sects; Sikhs; Socio-economic classes; Tribes; Uniforms; Urdu language; World War II

Subjects: Bahai Faith.; British; Buddhists; Cavalry; Christians; Colonialism; Communalism; Communication.; Discipline.; Edward VII, King of Great Britain, 1841-1910.; English language; Equality.; Fairness; Germans; Great Britain; Hindus; Hindustani language.; India; India--History.; Indian Military Academy; Indians; Infantry.; Italians; Kashmir; Muslims; North Africans; Pakistan; Pakistan--History; Pashto language; Punjab (India); Punjabi language; Religion; Royal Military Academy, Sandhurst; Sects.; Sikhs; Tribes; Uniforms.; Urdu language; World War II

Partial Transcript: Was there any difference between the Indian officers who were trained at Sandhurst and the ones that were trained at IMA?

Segment Synopsis: Hussain talks about the differences between officers trained at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst and the Indian Military Academy (IMA). He then discusses how the training of Indian officers for World War II led to them becoming leaders in the newly independent states of India and Pakistan. Hussain also talks about the Staff College of India, which trained commanders and staff officers for several countries as well as India itself.

Keywords: Australian Army; British; British Indian Army; British colonial armies; Burma; Canadian Army; Canadian Militia; Colonial armies; Colonialism; Commanders; Germans; Great British; Greece; Indian; Indian Army; Indian Military Academy; Indian Staff College; Indian independence; Italy; Japan; Japanese; North Africa; Officer training schools; Officers; Pakistan; Regular officers; Royal Australian Army; Royal Military Academy Sandhurst; Southeast Asia; Staff College of India; Staff colleges; Staff officers; World War II

Subjects: Armed forces; Burma; Colonialism; Germans; Greece; Indian; Indian Military Academy; Italy; Japan; Japanese; North Africa; Pakistan; Royal Military Academy Sandhurst; Southeast Asia.; World War II

Partial Transcript: Having--with both armies having grown out of the same infrastructure, do you think that they became very different after the partition?

Segment Synopsis: Hussain discusses the minimal adjustments that were made to the armed forces after the partition of Pakistan. He then talks about the positive contributions that British rule made to life in India. Hussain also discusses the issues that were created by the self-rule of the countries.

Keywords: Administration; Armed Forces; Armies; Bhutto, Benazir; Bhutto, Zulfikar Ali; British; Education; Esprit de corps; Governments; Great Britain; Incompetence; India; Indian Army; Indian National Army (INA); Islam; Law enforcement; Mughal Empire; Pakistan; Partition; Police; Railroads; Railways; Traditions

Subjects: Administration.; Armed Forces; Bhutto, Benazir, 1953-2007.; Bhutto, Zulfikar Ali, 1928-1979.; British; Education; Great Britain; India; India--History.; Indian National Army; Islam; Law enforcement.; Pakistan; Pakistan--History; Partition; Police; Railroads.

Partial Transcript: Without, um, Quaid's leadership was the implementation of his vision of governance possible? Without his--the strength of his personality?

Segment Synopsis: Hussain discusses whether or not Mahomet Ali Jinnah’s vision of Pakistan relied on the strength of his personality. He then talks about the major blow that Liaquat Ali Khan’s going away caused. Hussain also discusses working with statesman Chaudhry Khaliquzzaman and a number of notables connected to the Indo-Pakistan Conflict of 1947. He then talks about the role of Mahomed Ali Jinnah in running the Indian Army. Hussain talks about how the Indian Army was divided after the partition of Pakistan.

Keywords: British; Burma; Dixon, Owen; Gracey, Douglas; Great Britain; India; Indian Army; Indian National Army (INA); Jinnah, Mahomed Ali; Karachi (Pakistan); Kashmir India; Khaliquzzaman, Chaudhry; Khan, Liaquat Ali; Khan, Yahya; Martial law; Mountbatten, Louis; Pakistan; Partition; Prime ministers; Quaid-e-Azam; Royal Military Academy Sandhurst; Senior staff officers; United Nations; World War II

Subjects: British; Burma; Dixon, Owen, Sir, 1886-1972; Gracey, Douglas David, 1894-1964.; Great Britain; India; Indian National Army; Jinnah, Mahomed Ali, 1876-1948.; Karachi (Pakistan); Kashmir.; Khan, Liaquat Ali, 1895-1951.; Khān, Yaḥyá Aḥmad, 1975-; Mountbatten of Burma, Louis Mountbatten, Earl, 1900-1979.; Nimitz, Chester W. (Chester William), 1885-1966.; Pakistan; Partition; Prime ministers.; Royal Military Academy Sandhurst; United Nations; World War, 1939-1945

Partial Transcript: But as long as we're here, I have one more question about communalism.

Segment Synopsis: Hussain talks about why the creation of Pakistan inflamed sectarianism amongst Muslims.

Keywords: British; Communalism; Great Britain; Hindus; Islam; Kashmir (India); Lahore (Pakistan); Lucknow (India); Muslims; Partition; Sectarianism; Shiites; Sunnis; Sunnites; Tabarra movement

Subjects: British; Communalism; Great Britain; Hindus; India--History.; Islam; Kashmir; Lahore (Pakistan); Lucknow (India); Muslims; Pakistan--History; Partition; Shiites.; Sunnites