Interview with Judy Freundlich Tiell, September 14, 2016

ELY: It's September 14th, 2016. I'm Carol Ely. And I'm here with Judy Freundlich Tiell from Jewish Family & Career Services. We're doing an oral history interview for the Jewish Kentucky Oral History Project, sponsored by the Jewish Heritage Fund for Excellence. Thank you for doing this with me, Judy.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: I'm--I'm glad to be here.

ELY: Yeah, I appreciate it. And we're going to start with some questions about your personal and family background, and we'll move through your life somewhat chronologically and talk about how Jewish Family & Career Services has evolved and what it means in the--in the community of Louisville. So we're just going to begin at the very beginning. Just tell me when and where you were born.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: Okay. I was born, uh, January 8th, 1955, uh, in New Jersey. Uh, I grew up in New Jersey. And so, uh, I grew up in West Orange but I was actually born in Newark.

ELY: Okay. And is your family a, uh, New York-New Jersey background?

FREUNDLICH TIELL: Actually I am first generation American.

ELY: Ah.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: So both of my parents came to the United States in the thirties, uh, from Germany as children. So, uh, you know, it's--it's sort of a different kind of thing. So, my mother's family came after Kristallnacht, uh, through, uh, through England. My father's family came in '37, uh, they were--they had a little more foresight and came over a little earlier.

ELY: So, how were they able to get out? Do you know their stories?

FREUNDLICH TIELL: I do know their stories. Uh, we had a--the--my father's family had planned and had decided they needed to leave, and they were able to bring over, uh, many of their things. In fact part of the story was that my grandfather shipped his car over in fact.

ELY: Wow.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: And, uh, were--they were able to come and they, uh, moved to New York and then eventually ended up in Roselle Park, New Jersey, where my grandfather and grandmother owned a hardware store, which, uh, my father then 00:02:00ran as he got older. Uh, my mother's family was a little bit different. Uh, they have a very complex story of, umm, they lived next door to the synagogue, uh, and my mother recalled as a child Kristallnacht, uh, basically the fires coming and people throwing fireballs into not only the synagogue window but their window. Uh, the next day my grandfather, who owned a large, uh, smelting business, was arrested with, uh, his father. They had many many--they were well loved in their town. They grew up in a suburb of Stuttgart called Cannstatt. They were well loved, uh, by many of their customers, many of whom were not Jewish. And my grandmother went to one of their customers who happened to be a Nazi and he said, "I'm going to come to your apartment in full regalia. Don't be scared. But I'm going to get them out of jail basically." And that's 00:03:00exactly what happened. And my guess is there were some bribes involved. They were lucky enough that they had some resources. They then had family in England who, uh, through those letters and through a variety of means, they were able to go to England. Uh, my mother was then separated from her family, this poor nine-year-old child. Because of the bombing they moved all the children out of London. She went to a family, uh, for about six months in the, you know, the--in somewhere outside of London. And then when they were able to get together in, uh, the December of four--December of '39, they, uh, took up--they were able to come to America, because again they had family here. So they were very lucky. We--we had family who, uh, were through--throughout the world. I mean I have cousins in Europe, I have cousins in South America, uh, everybody was able to get out and pretty much, uh, get somewhere.

ELY: Mm, so it sounds like you grew up knowing your grandparents.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: I did. Uh, uh, I--at least three of them. My--my maternal grandfather died, uh, five months before I was born. But my maternal grandmother lived with us my entire life. And, uh, my paternal grandparents, we lived probably twenty minutes away, and we spent a lot of time with them. So family was very very important in my growing up years. It was a really important value. You know, growing up in a German Jewish community where literally when I was a child I thought everybody was German Jewish. Uh, we spoke some German in the home because my grandmother had had a stroke and--and sh--so reverted back to German as her major language. So I--we, you know, we spoke German as well as certainly English primarily.

ELY: Uh, just for the record, what were your parents' names and your grandparents'?

FREUNDLICH TIELL: My mother was Ilse, uh, Strauss was her maiden name. Ilse 00:05:00Strauss Freundlich. My father was Herman Freundlich. And my grandparents on my paternal side were Ludwig and Elsa. And on my mother's side were, uh, uh, Erna and Theodore.

ELY: Mm. So do you, uh, have a sense of what Jewish life back in Germany was like for them and then what they brought with them as far as--I mean obviously Jewish identity. But rituals, customs, foods.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: Absolutely. Uh, we, uh, we were fortunate enough that, uh, both Bob, my husband, and myself and then our families were able to travel back, once without my parents and once with my mother, to actually see the towns that they were from, to hear their stories. Uh, their stories were very much a part of our, uh, growing up. My mother's family was more, uh, observant. My father's family was less observant. Uh, but both had very strong Jewish identities. There were--there are lots--there--there were lots of rabbis in my 00:06:00mother's family and I still--my two first cousins are Reform rabbis today. So, uh, our Jewish identity was very very strong. We--we belonged to, uh, a very, uh, strong congregation throughout my growing up years, B'nai Abraham in--which started in Newark. Had Rabbi Joachim Prinz, who was very very well known as a, uh, very liberal progressive social activist, uh, who came from Germany and knew my--my mother's family in Germany. Uh, and, uh, it was a very very important part of my growing up, my identity as a Jew and my identity as part of that congregation, uh, and in fact as completely a sidenote, uh, just about two months ago, uh, we had a little reunion of--there were six of us who are--who are--we were all from that same congregation and were very very close growing up, and some of them I hadn't seen since the seventies.

ELY: Mm.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: So it was a very tight group of people and experiences.

ELY: And your neighborhood too was very--

FREUNDLICH TIELL: I grew up in West Orange.

ELY: Um-hm.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: Which was I would say 50 percent Jewish and 50 percent Italian Catholic, but very ethnic. It was, uh, very--I would consider pretty middle-class. Though there were certainly, uh, uh, certainly a combination of every economic group. Uh, the excellent school system. You know, I went all through public schools. Uh, but my identity was both, uh, you know, going to school and had friends of all sorts of, uh, different kinds of people. But I was very very close with my--the--my friends and the people in the congregation. So we led a pretty I would say Jewishly conservative life. We, uh, went to synagogue regularly. Uh, on certain--in West Orange schools were actually closed on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur as many of the east coast schools are. But frequently when I was young I would also go to, uh, we would miss school on 00:08:00like the first day of Sukkot or the first day of Pesach and go to services. We'd have many of the--the--the, uh, Jewish observances in our household because as my grandmother was an invalid it was always easier to do that. Uh, and, you know, I grew up having a bat mitzvah, having, uh, going to Hebrew high school as a ancillary school. I tutored Hebrew. I worked in the--the temple office. So being Jewish was pretty important to me. I was a member of Young Judaea. But, uh, I--I wasn't super, uh, I mean youth group was much more social for me. And then a lot of the way I expressed being Jewish as a--as a, you know, a teenager was it was the time where we were saving Soviet Jewry and parading for Israel, and growing up outside of New York City we spent a lot of time in New York at rallies and at meetings and at various kinds of events that were--had some kind of social action piece.

ELY: So the social action was important to you early on and that's--

FREUNDLICH TIELL: --it was.

ELY: --been a theme in your life.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: It has been absolutely a theme in my life.

ELY: Um-hm. And, uh, you mentioned Hebrew high school. So you went to Hebrew school, Sunday school, uh, camps, summer camps?

FREUNDLICH TIELL: Right. Uh, summer camps actually were through the YMCA. It just happened to be. I didn't--I didn't go to Jewish camps.

ELY: Did you travel to Israel at all?

FREUNDLICH TIELL: I went to Israel, uh, the summer of my sixteenth--when I was sixteen, with my Hebrew high school. We went with a group from, uh, both my--people from my Hebrew high school and then--and other groups who were out of New Jersey. And we were there for eight weeks. And it was a fabulous experience, uh, you know, touring the country and being involved and just seeing all sorts of kinds of things. Now I've not been back to Israel, and that's one thing I'd like to do. So it's been a long time.

ELY: Not been--not been back since then.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: No, not since then.

ELY: Might be a few changes.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: Right. (laughs)

ELY: So had you decided, uh, back then on a career in social work?

FREUNDLICH TIELL: Now originally I mean I had gone through many things. I 00:10:00was--wanted to be a teacher at one point, an attorney, and I actually went away to college thinking I would go to law school, and really quickly decided that--that I wasn't particularly interested in that. And then got interested in the whole area of social services. And what prompt my initially interest then in Jewish communal service was, uh, as a junior at college--I went to Brown in Rhode Island. I was able to do a, uh, both a work study and an independent study because I was a psychology major, uh, with Jewish Family Service in Providence. And I worked with, uh, both Russians who were immigrating at that point in large numbers and with seniors. I would do everything from take people to job interviews to, uh, go shopping and do friendly visiting for seniors. And, uh, I worked with them my junior and senior year and then they--they hired me on, uh, you know, even, uh, as a work study participant to continue working 00:11:00with them. And I became really interested in the field of--of Jewish social work. So it was through that experience that that led to it. So then at that point I, uh, when I graduated from Brown I had decided I wanted to get--to go to--one of the--my primary interests was to get not only my master's in social work but also my master's in Jewish communal service and, uh, sort of figured out a variety of programs and ended up at the University of Maryland where they have the Baltimore Institute of Jewish Communal Service. So I got both my master's in social work and my master's in Jewish history in a two-year period with special, uh, integrative seminars. It was an interesting process because they were used to having people who wanted to be in the federation world or in the JCC world. I was the first person who really wanted to be in the Jewish family service world. Uh, they had not been used to that because many times the family service was seen as potentially less Jewish or wasn't involved in 00:12:00building Jewish identity in the same way that the center or federation was. So I had to sort of fight some battles and, uh, it was an interesting process. And, uh, I was able to learn a lot, not just about clinical social work, which was, you know, my primary field at that point, but about--about organizational structures. Uh, the Jewish Family Service in Baltimore when I was there and did my internship there, I got a fabulous clinical internship. But they were in the midst of a leadership crisis. They had had a long term executive, uh, die and bas--retire and basically die. They'd had a series of execs that weren't working out. And I, uh, was able to shadow and be involved with the current e--th--their exec at that time who also didn't end up working out, but it was a very interesting experience to see how the boards worked, how, uh, how the exec played that different kind of role. And so I--I became--I--I--I had a really--I 00:13:00had good training both in terms of the clinical piece as well as at least some understanding of the admin and the leadership role. And then I got very involved with a staff person at Jewish Family Service in Baltimore who was at that point leading what was very, uh, trendy Jewish family life education groups. And she was a leader in that field. And I learned from her and, uh, loved it. Loved the combination of Jewish education as well as family ideas. So we would run Jewish parenting classes and Jewish women's empowerment groups and all sorts of groups. And it was really fun. And when I started looking for a job I, uh, had really wanted to stay on the east coast, uh, because I'm an east coast kind of person, or at least I was at that point. And, uh, got lots of job offers. Uh, NYANA in New York and little federations up in Boston. And I had a great meeting with the director or the--probably the assistant director 00:14:00at the Jewish Family Service in Boston. And he said to me, "We'd love to hire you. Here's three jobs we can give you. But let me tell you my advice." He said, "You're going to be very unhappy in a big agency. You are going to be--you're going to do one thing. You're going to come in as a clinician or you're going to come in doing one thing. And you're not going to like that." And his suggestion to me was go to a small community where you can do a variety of activities, and then come back east with figuring out what you really want to do. I'd never really thought about it before, it was the best career advice I ever got.

ELY: Um-hm.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: I'd also been a student at the Baltimore, uh, Jewish Family Service, which was very large and very hierarchical. And I didn't like that as well. So the opportunity came up in Louisville, uh, to run and start a Jewish family life education program. And it seemed perfectly permanently made for me, although of course my parents couldn't believe there were Jews in Kentucky, uh.

ELY: (laughs) It's a common story, yes.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: Common story. That's right. So in 1979 I moved to 00:15:00Louisville and became the coordinator of the new Jewish family life education program and I--I ended up staying. So here I am from 1979. And I've been at JF--at that point JFVS--

ELY: --huh, right.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: --since 1979.

ELY: So you really were thrown into a situation in a big city, Baltimore, where you got a chance because it sounds like from the chaos there like you saw a little bit of everything. And what, uh, at--at that point was the Jewish Family Service involved, uh, in the non-Jewish community? Or was it primarily serving the Jewish community?

FREUNDLICH TIELL: No, Baltimore had a long history of only serving the Jewish community. Now that has changed. But, uh, they did not accept federal money. They only served the Jewish community. You know, Baltimore Jewish community is large, and was very well funded. And they--at least the Jewish Family Service there was very tight. So my clinical experience was with Jews. I mean I--I did 00:16:00everything from, you know, do marital counseling to work with, uh, uh, I worked in a, uh, in a halfway house for, uh, people with, uh, severe and chronic mental illness. So it was a very good experience both clinically as well as just understanding the field of Jewish communal service. We had been--as a child I was--we were very involved in our synagogue. But we were not at all involved--my parents were not at all involved in the, you know, organized Jewish community and the JCC or in the--their federation.

ELY: I was going to ask if your family was in the leadership structures in West Orange, uh.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: No. Not at all. Not at all. My mother, you know, most leadership is, you know, my mother was head of the PTA at the temple. Temple was our sort of--our sort of Jewish place. But they were not--my parents were not particularly leaders. My--my father worked long, long, long hours. And, uh, my mom would care for my grandmother. So we, uh, so I did not really know 00:17:00about the federated system until graduate school. It was a whole--that was a whole new opening for me. And that's why part of the issue of their sort of surprise at why anybody would be interested in going into leadership in a Jewish family service was so--I--I didn't understand until I began to see how the, you know, federation had certain kinds of, you know, ideas of what should happen or shouldn't happen. And the roles the--of the different agencies. All of which has changed a lot.

ELY: Um-hm. So you arrived in Louisville. You discovered there were Jews in Kentucky. (laughs)

FREUNDLICH TIELL: Jews in Kentucky.

ELY: And what was the nature of your work at that point? And how did you settle into the community?

FREUNDLICH TIELL: So I, uh, I d--I--I've always been very proud that I moved here really without knowing anyone. And, uh, there I was, you know, young--young woman and came and, you know, uh, and it was a really great opportunity. So I was able to do--I started a variety of Jewish family life education groups. Uh, you know, and ran Jewish parenting classes and adult 00:18:00children of aging parents and Jewish women returning to the career world and stress management, uh, under--all under Jewish auspices. And I also had a clinical, uh, caseload. So I saw individuals and families.

ELY: Did you work with Holocaust survivors? I'm just curious based on your family.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: Not--a little bit. Not--not, uh, not in a particular way. Uh, I mean I worked with some seniors and I was certainly involved with resettlement. So with some of the Russians who--who are now categorized as survivors in different ways. And with some of the seniors. But it wasn't--we didn't, uh, our JFCS never had a specific survivor program. That was all part of our senior adult program. So I began doing that and pretty soon after I, uh, moved to town began dating my now husband, and so Bob and I, uh, actually just celebrated our thirty-fifth wedding anniversary.

ELY: Congratulations.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: So we, uh, got married in 1981 and then pretty much we were set to be in Louisville.

ELY: And he was at the agency already?

FREUNDLICH TIELL: He was also at the agency. He had come--he had a background in career counseling. And the Jewish Family & Career Service, the--the name it's currently known in used to be two separate agencies. It was the Jewish Social Service Agency that was the clinical piece and it was Jewish Vocational Service, which was the career piece. They, uh, merged in the s--late seventies. But Bob came to the agency when it was still Jewish Vocational Service and worked under Dave Dobbins. Dave Dobson, excuse me. Dave Dobson, who, uh, was legendary in terms of his work on careers and college and helping, uh, people get jobs and to understand their career goals. Al Erlen was the Jewish Social Service Agency person. Uh, the two agencies merged. Dave, uh, died 00:20:00unexpectedly of a heart attack and--and Al retired. And the agency merged in the late seventies. And Bob stayed with, uh, as part of that merger.

ELY: And the history of--of the, uh, social service part of it I believe goes back to the beginnings of the twentieth century.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: We--we f--go back to 1908. Uh, basically as most Jewish family service kinds of agencies or whatever, you know, they're called in various cities really started with sort of that welcoming the stranger sort of a resettlement piece, uh, integrating people into the community. And, uh, you know, working on creating, uh, you know, help for--for Jewish families in need. So we do go back to 1908 and, uh, the--the--and again the Jewish Vocational Service was formed in the forties, around the time of, you know, so many, uh, young adults then going off to college and people coming back from war and 00:21:00needing, you know, different kinds of career search. We were one of the smallest Jewish vocational service cities in the network for many, many years. And, uh, although it was--it was a tough struggle; it really made a lot of sense in the seventies for that, uh, the organizations to merge. They were seeing many of the same clients and there were lots of overlaps, although the two agencies had very different cultures and different, uh, leadership. But--but that happened in the seventies. And then I came in '79.

ELY: And both agencies had been pretty much focused on the Jewish community, uh, at the point where they merged.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: Actually a little bit of both. Both agencies always served people in the general community as well.

ELY: Okay.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: Uh, there was--there were always, uh, clients that were served both in the counseling area as well as in the career service. In fact if you go back and look at, uh, uh, there are people who are, uh, sort of the--the 00:22:00sons and grandsons and granddaughters of some of the--sort of the, uh, the elite of Louisville who all ended up going through and meeting people at the Jewish Family s--Jewish--primarily Jewish Vocational Service for college or career advisement. It was very very well--well known in the non-Jewish community.

ELY: So since the merger and since you--you became involved, shortly after that, right?

FREUNDLICH TIELL: Right.

ELY: How has the agency evolved along with the Jewish community and the non-Jewish community?

FREUNDLICH TIELL: Well, there's been a lot of changes. So when I came, uh, Stephanie Spiegel was the executive director. And she retired I'm pretty sure it's around 2003, 2004, when I took over as exec. So, uh, but I had--the agency has really evolved a lot. So we've grown a lot. Uh, both Jewish Social Service Agency and Jewish Vocational Service were very small. They--they each had maybe three people. Now we have a staff of over fifty-five. Uh, we always served the 00:23:00entire community but--but we really look at serving the entire community as part of our values and mission. That is part of our tikkun olam and s--and repairing the world that by providing excellent service to everyone, uh, helps both the community to heal and also helps create positive feelings about the Jewish community as a whole. So it's an integral part. So for example we--our funding has completely diversified. Our funding used to be primarily from the Jewish community. Now our funding is really primarily, uh, from grants, the government, you know, foundations. We still get money from the Jewish community. We do much more fundraising than was ever done. So the agencies have really changed. The agencies have become much more, uh, professionally based. Services have expanded beyond just let's say career advisement or 00:24:00counseling for families to include everything from, uh, case management and, uh, work with hard to place, uh, disadvantaged youths, uh, to very specialized senior services like home care and senior transportation. So we--we believe at JFCS that we have really expanded to meet the needs of the Jewish community, uh, as well as the whole community. And even though our mission stays very close, we're still very mission-based, and we don't--we're not going to start, you know, manufacturing widgets, uh, we have a wide array of services today that really focus on helping people learn the skills that they need to develop, to be--to solve problems, to learn better communication skills, and to be sustainable. Uh, we're very, very intent on helping people learn skills so that they can move forward with the goals that they set, rather than us just taking 00:25:00care of everything. And that really is an underpinning of a lot of our services.

ELY: So you must partner a lot with other organizations in the community?

FREUNDLICH TIELL: We do. We partner very closely with everybody from the Jewish Community of Louisville and the various synagogues in terms of providing services, in terms of providing, uh, scholarship, uh, uh, applications, in terms of reviewing those, in terms of, uh, providing consultation, you know, if there's, uh, a issue with a child, let's say at camp, to community--other services in the non-Jewish community. We have very close relationships with the refugee resettlement organizations, Catholic Charities, and Kentucky Refugee Ministries. We work very closely with YouthBuild of, uh, uh, in terms of working with their students and helping in terms of job placement. We, uh, h--we--we were--partner with lots of different organizations around different programs.

ELY: So in--in your time with all these partnerships and working in the wider 00:26:00community have you, uh, felt any strains or issues around the fact that you're a Jewish identified organization?

FREUNDLICH TIELL: We frequently get from people, "Well, I'm not Jewish. Can I come to your service?" And that's a real common thing. We also have, uh, always have an issue. People think we're either the JCC or Jewish Hospital or somebody else. And, uh, you know, part of the wonderful thing about our organization is that we're a one-stop. People can come and get food, they can get counseling, they can get help with their aging parent, they can help--get help with a job all in one place. But that, uh, is--also makes it very hard for us to have a very clear identity in a thirty-second elevator speech. So, uh, we've always fought against that. I think that we've worked very hard and people really understand now that in--in reality the Jewish dollars that we receive are leveraged in huge amount by the non-Jewish dollars so that we are 00:27:00able to serve more Jews than we would ever be able to serve and in deeper ways than if we just served the Jewish community. So that--that--initially when I was involved that was always a struggle, helping people to understand that you could serve the entire community and yet still have a very strong Jewish identity. And we do. Uh, uh, we have Jewish art in our building. We have m--mezuzot. We do Jewish training. Uh, and in fact our non-Jewish staff find that our mission and the connection to the Jewish community is one of the strongest things that they identify with as--as, uh, staff in our agency. So, uh, that's really something that--that's, uh, uh, an important piece of who we are and we don't hide it.

ELY: I--I think, uh, even your building has symbolism.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: We do. The, uh, our building, uh, our building, uh, which we moved into--and I always forget. I think it was about 2000. Uh, was our first 00:28:00freestanding building. And, uh, Mark Isaacs was the architect. And Mark did a fabulous job for us. And the building was, uh, set up as if it were in villages and is also set up with--if you look in the front there's, uh, lights that are, uh, illuminated as if it was a hanukkiah. So each year at Hanukkah we light one of our lights and have a hanukkiah. Uh, the building also has much Jewish symbolism and--and--and has sort of a piece that reflects that, uh, that the Jewish community has, uh, sort of a place and a space here in Louisville.

ELY: The location around Dutchmans Lane is--is a fairly suburban location. So I guess the agency moved along with a lot of the other organizations from downtown then out to the Highlands or greater Highlands area.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: Well, we were a little bit different. And so the--the 00:29:00original, uh, Jewish Social Service Agency, uh, had space with the, uh, old Metro United Way Building which is now like the Courtyard of Louisville down there at the corner of I think Market and Main. And in fact when I first moved to Louisville in '79 we were still in that old United Way Building. Uh, Jewish Vocational Service was in, uh, a, uh, an office building, uh, I think the Marion E. Taylor Building, down in, uh, Louisville. Then when the two agencies merged they went into the old United Way Building and then in '79 when Shalom Tower opened we moved up on the second floor of Shalom Tower and shared the second floor space with the federation. So we sort of went from downtown right up into Shalom Tower. And then we quickly outgrew that space. But it wasn't until 2000 that we have our own building. And, uh, we had a large building campaign. Gail Pohn, who had been a past president of JFCS, led that campaign. Uh, and we were 00:30:00so honored that the Roth family decided to have the building, uh, and to take the lead in that campaign to name the building after their parents, Louis and, uh, Lee Roth. So the building itself is called the Louis & Lee Roth Family Center. And JFCS has, uh, has been in that building now since we moved in.

ELY: Um-hm. I'm getting at that because I'm thinking about neighborhoods and how the community has--has geographically moved.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: Absolutely.

ELY: Through--through, uh, downtown to Old Louisville to the Highlands to further out. Well, let--let me go back a little bit to your personal story here.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: Okay.

ELY: You, uh, you--you met your husband, you got married. Uh, your family came here to Kentucky for the wedding? And, uh, they were okay with you being in Kentucky by then?

FREUNDLICH TIELL: Absolutely. My parents, uh, got to really enjoy being in Louisville. They always said the people here were friendliest. They could go to Kroger and people would actually talk to them, which they always found very 00:31:00endearing. So, uh, they enjoyed that very much. And, uh, that worked out really well. And then Bob and I have two sons, uh, so Jeff was born in, uh, 1984 and Scott was born in 1988. Uh, Jeff lives in San Francisco right now and actually works for the Jim Joseph Foundation, which is, uh, a Jewish foundation that funds Jewish educational, uh, ideas. He ended up--both kids went through Jefferson County public schools. Jeff followed me to Brown and then ended up getting a master's in urban planning at Penn and has lived in San Francisco now for a while. And Scott, uh, went to Emory and then moved to DC and works as a--in a marketing strategy firm and just got married two weeks ago, uh, met his--

ELY: --mazel tov--

FREUNDLICH TIELL: --thank you. Yeah, it was great. And met his wife on JDate. And, uh, a success, uh, su--successful story and--

ELY: --um-hm.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: --they got married, uh, by her rabbi. She grew up in a Conservative, uh, shul. And they got married in Annapolis, uh, two weeks ago.

ELY: Mm. Very nice. So what neighborhood did you live in while your kids were growing up?

FREUNDLICH TIELL: When I first moved to, uh, Louisville, lived in, uh, off--an apartment on Breckenridge Lane.

ELY: Mm.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: And then, uh, Bob and I bought our first house in Hikes Point. And we lived there. And then as many people do we decided to move further out east because of the school district. We wanted the school district, we wanted our kids to be able to go to Dunn and Ballard and, uh, so we moved out to, uh, Falls Creek, which is off of, uh, 42. And we have lived there since 1986, same house.

ELY: Mm. And what synagogue temple do you go to?

FREUNDLICH TIELL: We belong to Temple Shalom.

ELY: Um-hm.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: And, uh, Stan Miles, the rabbi, married us. And we--was very involved in our kids' upbringing and, uh, was involved. Bob became Jewish. He 00:33:00was not born Jewish. And Stan, uh, did his conversion. And, uh, we've been active members of Temple Shalom.

ELY: Mm. Uh, Temple Shalom was started probably about the time you came here.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: A little bit before. Right.

ELY: Right.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: When I first moved to town services were being held at Bellarmine. So I went to Bellarmine and actually Bob and my wedding was the first event in the house that Temple Shalom used as a synagogue prior to their building.

ELY: So in the beginning it was, uh, really a group of families that were very close. And I--and that persists to this day, doesn't it?

FREUNDLICH TIELL: It does to a certain extent.

ELY: Um-hm.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: I mean we--I grew up in a Conservative-leaning Reform congregation. But, uh, in terms of, uh, observance I would probably say I've always been leaning more towards Reform. So that makes sense. I like sort of smaller congregations. And I--it just felt, uh, to be more of a place where we could be involved and--

ELY: --mm--

FREUNDLICH TIELL: --you know, we've been very happy there.

ELY: And your boys went through the Hebrew school, Sunday school.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: They went through Sunday school and they went through Hebrew school.

ELY: Um-hm.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: At that particular time people from Temple Shalom did not have to go to Hebrew school. But we felt strongly that we wanted them to have as strong a Jewish education as they could. So they went to Hebrew school and they went to the High School of Jewish Studies. They were bar mitzvahed. They had--were confirmed. And, uh, both of them have done Birthright and I think both of them have a pretty strong Jewish identity.

ELY: And you had the holidays in your home and with the community?

FREUNDLICH TIELL: We did. We--various points we would go to New Jersey and celebrate when the kids were little. Or families would come here. And as with anyone who, uh, who doesn't have family in the same place where you live, you create good friends who become like family. So we had--we have very, very close friends who we would celebrate holidays with, who we would go to family Shabbat dinners and, you know, go to services with. And so that continued as the kids were growing up and continues now.

ELY: So really you find Louisville conducive to Jewish life.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: Uh, for us it was great. Uh, you know, there--there may not have been, you know, again we--we don't keep kosher. And I understand that that's a huge issue for many people. And, uh, but for us we've been able to have, uh, a very, uh, uh, the kind of Jewish life that we would like. And our kids I felt like got a good background in being Jewish and had the opportunity to go to JCC camps and have, uh, you know, groups of friends. But we always stressed that, uh, you know, there's life beyond the Jewish community, so that, you know, we always made sure that--that our kids, you know, had opportunities to be in big cities and encouraged them to have friends of all sorts of kinds, not just to stay within the Jewish community. And they did.

ELY: Are your parents still alive or are they--or they're--

FREUNDLICH TIELL: --no, my--my father died in--in 2001 and my mother actually died in October.

ELY: Mm. But your kids had a chance to hear their stories too.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: Th--th--my kids were very, very close with my parents and heard their stories and--and my mother again took our whole family and my sister and her family back to Europe to see and visit the two towns and show us directly where she and my dad were from. So they had that experience as well. My kids were very close--were very close with their, you know, paternal grandmother as well. They never knew their paternal grandfather.

ELY: So, uh, as you've been so involved with your professional work in the community have you also, uh, found time to serve on boards or take any other advisory roles or strategic committees with, uh, uh, m--there've been many changes in the community in the last fifteen years or so. Have--have you been able to take a part in helping shape that?

FREUNDLICH TIELL: Right. Well, I have been very very involved, uh, in the non-Jewish community in United Way.

ELY: That was my next question. So go right ahead.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: Right. So I'm very very involved in United Way. Uh, I, uh, chaired the, uh, Council of Agency Execs, which is, uh, a group of execs. And 00:37:00through that I've been on the steering committee of the United Way board, and continue to serve on the impact cabinet. So I feel like I've had some impact on the social service and human service world in Louisville. Uh, in the Jewish community I've been involved more nationally. So I've been our national president of the International Association of Vocational Services, Jewish Vocational Services. And actually, uh, with one other colleague has sort of s--not sort of, we did. There are two national associations, the Association of Jewish Family and Children's Agencies, and the International Association of Jewish Vocational Services. And about five years ago, uh, we started the movement to bring those two organizations together into a new organization, which is now--and I--and I was the chair of that committee for a while. I'm now on the steering committee. We have a new network called the Network of Jewish Human Service Professionals, which the name may be changing. But again it's an 00:38:00attempt to look at things in a much more holistic light nationally and internationally and I think is going to be a much stronger national advocacy and professional development group. So I'm very, very involved with that on a national level. And, uh, I think that has impact on what we do here in Louisville. I've served on committees in the Jewish community. Uh, you know, when my kids were little I was on the camp committee and I've been involved in the education committee at--at Temple Shalom. But quite honestly at some level it's--it's hard to do that when you are a professional in the Jewish community because you're always seen in that role.

ELY: Right. Uh, I'm interested in the fact that your, uh, national experience seems to be taking the local experience of Louisville and then applying that on, uh, on a national stage, that because you were involved with all facets of what went on here in Louisville, you could see that as a national issue as well. Would you agree with that?

FREUNDLICH TIELL: Well, to an extent. And again it wasn't just me. But there--there are lots of--lots of reasons moving towards that. But you r--that we really needed to sort of get it started. And--and my colleague in Atlanta and I sort of got the ball rolling. And then we created an opportunity for things to keep moving. And I have great colleagues nationally, I'm very, uh, fortunate. I love the network that we're part of and I have great colleagues locally. Uh, we work very closely together. And that's always been a great sense of support and I do think that, uh, the nature of the human service world, whether it be Jewish or non-Jewish, is really constantly changing and needing to look at ways to be more nimble and to recognize the impact and who we serve and what we need to do in--in sort of more, uh, s--you know, strategic ways.

ELY: Um-hm. Well, I have one question. In a way given everything you've said it seems almost like it's kind of a crude question. But have you faced any anti-Semitism personally or professionally? Because you are so involved with 00:40:00the wider community. Do you have any thoughts about that?

FREUNDLICH TIELL: Well, when I first moved to Louisville and I, uh, saw clients--and we always saw clients from all over--the story I--I love to tell, because it's so interesting, because it's so strange, is one day I had a client in my office, not Jewish. And, uh, they kept sort of looking at my head.

ELY: (laughs)

FREUNDLICH TIELL: And what they were looking for was my horns. Because according to them Jews had horns. And they couldn't believe that. And again I--I--rather than sort of being insulted, I took it as an opportunity to teach and--and again I think part of the reason that JFCS is so successful in the entire community is because people learn that--that, you know, Jews are no different than anybody else and that we, you know, we have the same issues and the same concerns. And so that, uh, that at one level was--was one form of sort 00:41:00of questioning. Uh, you know, we have had some people who s--you know, create questions about why, you know, why the Jews are doing this or doing that. You know, we serve a lot of Muslims because we serve a lot of refugees. And, uh, you know, we're--we--they--they love our service and they're very happy. And again we feel like it's a good opportunity to build bridges. But certainly there are some people who, uh, don't understand and have negative feelings about Jews without realizing that it's the Jewish Family Service that may be creating opportunities for them. So, uh, I can't say that growing up, uh, and having my kids grow up here that we faced a lot of direct anti-Semitism. I think more than anything it was, uh, that growing up in New Jersey where I did, it felt like everybody knew about being Jewish, and everybody had Jewish connections, whereas here you definitely feel like a minority. And so you do things in a 00:42:00different way. When our kids were little we made a much bigger deal of Hanukkah. You know, making decorations and, you know, creating foods, and bringing dreidel games to school. Because--because everybody didn't know and didn't understand and didn't want to feel overwhelmed. Uh, I think that's more of what we've experienced, that you have to actively be Jewish, not necessarily anti-Semitism.

ELY: So your kids' experience growing up was in a lot of ways--contrasts with yours in that Judaism was the sea you swam in in New Jersey but here you--they stood out.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: Right. Right.

ELY: Were they comfortable with that, your boys?

FREUNDLICH TIELL: Absolutely. You know, they--I think that they--they did very well with that. They had, you know, no trouble with it. Again I think they had pretty strong identities of who they are and who they were. But also an appreciation. You know, again having, uh, part of their family not be Jewish, uh, uh, you know, in terms of grandparents and aunts and uncles. We were always 00:43:00very, very clear that we're very respectful and that we can help people celebrate their holidays even if we don't choose to celebrate themselves. And so the message from us was always that, uh, that there's lots of ways to be good people and to have good experiences. And it, uh, it isn't a question of better or worse. It's a question of difference.

ELY: Um-hm. Uh, in Louisville the word Jewish, the first association for most people is hospital.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: Hospital. Right.

ELY: Right. It becomes, uh, like a code word. Uh, you, uh, h--have you seen attitudes within the Jewish community change towards the non-Jewish community? Maybe less insular? Or perhaps more threatened by the arrival of--of immigrant groups? And that's a very general question. I'm sure it's very specific for individuals. But how do you see that?

FREUNDLICH TIELL: Generally I think first of all one of the things we've seen in the Jewish community that has a major impact has been that the Jews in our Jewish community are much more accepted communitywide. We don't anymore have a 00:44:00Jewish school where--where, uh, I mean a public school where a lot of kids are Jewish. You know, kids are in every school. Uh, so--and Jews are accepted. So now whereas in the, you know, previous generation or two in order for--to have leadership roles Jews had leadership roles within the Jewish community, now many Jews have leadership roles at the Speed Art Museum or at the ballet or at other non-Jewish organizations because they're accepted as part of this community. That's great. But that then creates, uh, sort of issues within the Jewish community about how do we keep our leaders or at least keep them interested and involved. And I think that's what we're really all focused on. We have this major engagement process we're working on right now to really understand not just about engaging millennials and young adults, but how do we get back the people who are in their fifties and sixties who've really sort of veered away 00:45:00from involvement in the Jewish community and, uh, you know, have real talents and skills that could be put to great use in our Jewish community. So I think again the fact that we're no longer a ghetto is great but, uh, it creates more opportunities for people to get involved. Uh, we see that all the time with charitable dollars, you know, the Jewish community, you know, supports the Jewish community, but supports a lot of communities. Uh, I think that there is some concern. Uh, you know, the Jewish community has changed politically. You know, you used to talk about the Jewish community as being pretty much liberal progressives. That's not, no longer the case, many are, and, you know, uh, you know, I joke that I'm still a proud liberal progressive. But, uh, many of the--our board members, many people in the Jewish community are not. And so we have to sort of walk that walk as well in terms of, you know, obviously as, uh, an organization that receives government funding, we don't do any particular lobbying. But we certainly do advocacy for important things that we believe for 00:46:00our clients. I mean for example the Medicaid expansion in Kentucky has been critical for many of our clients and we are very concerned about that going away. And yet we have many people in our Jewish community who would disagree with me. So, uh, I think that's been a change in our Jewish community. Uh, and--and that's something that we look at. Uh, I think that there's been much more understanding in that t--mission of tikkun olam that the Jewish community can serve the Jewish community, but can also serve the greater Jewish community, and that ultimately benefits the Jewish community. And I think there's also an understanding--not by everyone by any means--but an understanding that--that we're all in this together and we need to work more closely together rather than trying to compete or have our own little--little area. And that--I think that's an ongoing sort of tension and issue.

ELY: So the community engagement process involves whom at this point?

FREUNDLICH TIELL: We--we were able, uh, to hire someone who is--who has spent this year doing a variety of things. Uh, researching best practices, talking with other Jewish communities, uh, meeting with hundreds of people, doing little focus groups, having a little task force with some strategy, uh, development and implementation, and doing some experimentation on new ways that we can engage people. And we've--we've had, uh, it's been really interesting. So we're learning a lot. And then from that we hope to develop some specific plans and programs. But I mean one example for ex--example is we've always provided, uh, school supplies in conjunction with Temple Shalom for the--for Jewish children, uh, that come in through the agency. Uh, it's just been something we've done. And this year some of our younger staff were talking about how they're all nostalgic about, uh, buying school supplies because they don't do that anymore. 00:48:00And wouldn't it be great if they could get a bunch of their friends to create a way to--to--to buy school supplies and we could expand what we do to all children who we serve? Well, through a Facebook process and whatever social media and doing all sorts of things, we serve--we went from serving about 35 kids to serving over 120. They created a school, uh, school supply shop that the families could actually come into and the kids could pick out their own color, uh, folders and notebooks and stuff. We had an event where, you know, we had y--we had about sixty young adults who wrote encouraging notes to kids and who had beer and wine and we had music, and it was a fun kind of thing, but it was all around doing a good deed and doing something positive. And engaged people we had never engaged, whether they be Jewish or non-Jewish. Now that may 00:49:00be a one-time issue, but we also need to then begin to look at how we create other opportunities like that, uh, because that's what's going to get people fired up. What--what's in--what's interested for you but that has very direct application to us.

ELY: Um-hm.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: Uh, so kids got things that they needed in a very, uh, respectful way. And people had fun doing it.

ELY: And you it sounds like very explicitly call on Jewish values as part of that tikkun olam.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: We do. We--absolutely. We have a list actually. We, uh, we do some staff training and some board training using, uh, a whole variety of Jewish values that underpin our work. Everything from tikkun olam to the idea of, uh, teshuvah and that people can ask for forgiveness and people can turn and make changes. You know, I think the Yom Kippur message is very critical with our--with JFCS. It's never too late. You can atone, you can make a change. 00:50:00You know, just because you've done something in the past doesn't mean you're a horrible terrible person and how do you make those changes. We look at things like that life is more critical, so what do we do to create, uh, and--and sustain life in a very high quality way. Things like our home care program, things like our transportation program, giving seniors the dignity to make the choices they need if they have the support services with them. Uh, you know, again we look at the Maimonides's idea of--of charity and highest form of charity is where you don't know who you're providing charity to. And again people who make donations don't know where it's going. And--and yet directly helps individuals. And we look at the value of work. Work has always been a huge value, uh, within the Jewish community. And helping people to find work that's not only meaningful for them but that can help them be self-suffic--sufficient and self-sustaining is critical. So we do--we look at 00:51:00lot at Jewish values that underpin our work. And, uh, again even though we serve the entire community we--we're very strongly identified with Jewish values and our Jewish mission.

ELY: And do you work in any, uh, interfaith context where you work perhaps with, uh, clergy and organizations at churches or mosques?

FREUNDLICH TIELL: We have. We, you know, we work, uh, we lead the--the Jewish Community Relationships Council really creates more of those opportunities now. But by working with various refugees we do--we no longer do refugee resettlement but we work with refugees in career areas. We help them to find more, uh, sort of ongoing careers, especially for those who come with some kind of, uh, employment status. We, uh, help them start small businesses. We help them create, uh, bank accounts and savings so that they can, uh, buy houses and get 00:52:00further education. And through that we work very closely with Catholic Charities and Kentucky Refugee Ministries and through that the various religious organizations that they work with.

ELY: And, uh, the city of Louisville is--has a planning process looking forward, uh, vision 2020, I--

FREUNDLICH TIELL: --right--

ELY: --uh, are you involved with that, uh--

FREUNDLICH TIELL: --we--we are. We have a lot of involvement with the various departments in--in Louisville government. Uh, we work with, uh, Louisville Forward around some of the economic development issues. We work with the, uh, human service organizations to focus in on social service needs. We, uh, are involved with, uh, s--we're, uh, many of us are involved in various committees that the city has, providing input and providing expertise that we give them. We're involved in lots of coalitions around everything from, uh, workforce development issues to, uh, uh, children who witness violence and--and children 00:53:00who are at risk for, uh, abuse and neglect. So there's a lot of areas in which we--we're involved with the city of Louisville.

ELY: It--it seems like in a way you're in a position to know all of the pressure points in the community, the--the places where things aren't working and the places where they are. So just as kind of a general wrap-up kind of a question, uh, how do you personally and how does, uh, your agency, uh, what change do you want to see through your work in the community? If--if everything goes well thirty years, what does Louisville look like?

FREUNDLICH TIELL: Well, I think that if everything goes well then the--we will continue to have strong Jewish leaders both professional and volunteer who are really committed to working with the Jewish community but also in concert with the general community. I think that's critical and that's part of this 00:54:00engagement process. We need to find ways to engage young adults and people who've moved away from the community and do that. Uh, I'm not one of those negative people who say, "Oh, we've lost the hospital and we've lost the, you know, the day school and we've lost this and we've lost that." I think we still have very strong institutions and we have a--a network of services. If everything really would go well then every Jew would have enough money and--to have a--a decent housing situation and a decent--and decent food. We still serve over 140 people each month in our food pantry, many of them Jewish. There are people who say to me all the time, "I can't believe there are poor Jews." There are poor Jews, many of them. You know, just this week I wrote, uh, I wrote out, uh, uh, uh, uh, signed a request for an emergency service rent check for a Jewish family. Uh, th--there are real needs within our Jewish community 00:55:00and I'd love to see those needs gone so that we don't have to have a food pantry anymore. You know, I--I know that's probably not going to happen. I would like us to see less partisanship. Uh, I think, you know, there's a lot of partisanship nationally and locally. And I think that by looking at ways we can work together and partner--I think the more partnerships the better it's going to be. You know, that means we all have to give up a little something and that's really hard. But I think that's really critical. Uh, I think one of the things that I think j--j--at JFCS we've prided ourself on is that we're pretty nimble and we're pretty willing to experiment and take some risks. And I think that we need to continue to do that. We need to continue to find the models that work best because what worked twenty years ago doesn't work now. Uh, I wish we had more funds. You know, unfortunately, you know, we are not able to provide the kind of salaries I'd like for our staff. And we're really working on that. Uh, you know, I worry about the next generation and their retirement 00:56:00opportunities. Uh, that's going to be huge from personnel pieces. We've really t--started, uh, very strategically investing in some of the talent in our organization so we can create the skills that are going to be needed for the next generation. All that is really really important. Uh, I think that the community as a whole is really struggling with an identity issue because for so long we've been seen as this, uh, community that, uh, many people were--had very successful lives, you know, but didn't need a lot of education and had jobs that, you know, were what were considered more blue-collar. Those are gone forever. So we have to figure out how we can retrain people and get people into good places. Uh, we need to break some of the--the generational issues of poverty and figure out, you know, how we can be less stratified as a city. Uh, there's--there are certainly a lot of issues and--and I don't have all the 00:57:00answers by any means. But I think that, you know, we--certainly we try to look at those things as we--as we think strategically about the areas we need to be in and invest in. Uh, I--I mean I have a lot of hope for this Jewish community. I think there--I think there's a lot of great people involved. I think there's a--I think it's a wonderful place and--and, uh, young adults frequently, even if they leave, they do come back, though unfortunately I don't think either of our sons will return.

ELY: Too bad.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: I know. But I do think there's a lot of opportunity here and a lot of energy to create a Jewish community that--that can, you know, do a lot for a lot of different people.

ELY: Well, that's great. Is there anything I haven't asked? Or any great stories you're dying to tell? Or, uh, epiphanies you've had? Uh, anything else you'd like to put on the record here?

FREUNDLICH TIELL: I--I have, uh, truly been blessed in a lot of ways to come 00:58:00here totally sort of on a--on a, you know, s--s--kind of, uh, with no real thought about what that meant and to be able to spend my professional and personal life here. And that's meant a lot to me. So I'm glad that I've been able to impact the community in whatever way I've been able to do and that the community has impacted on me. I think, uh, it's--it's really been, you know, it's been a great ride.

ELY: Changed your east coast focus about what Judaism is?

FREUNDLICH TIELL: Changed my east coast--yeah, changed my east coast focus.

ELY: Um-hm.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: I mean I love to travel and I love to visit. But no regrets about being here and, uh, and our plan is that we'll stay here as--when we retire, you know, though certainly probably travel more.

ELY: Alright, well, thank you very much.

FREUNDLICH TIELL: Okay.

[End of interview.]