Interview with Sharon L. Cohen, March 31, 2017

THOMPSON: Hello, our names are Hannah Thompson--

PATEL: --Trupte Patel--

MORRIS: --and Dylan Morris.

THOMPSON: And we are students in Word 112, Spring 2017, Writing Jewish Kentucky, and we are conducting this interview as part of our work for that class and for the Jewish Heritage Fund for Excellence Jewish Kentucky Oral History Project. Today is Friday, March 31, 2017--2017--and it is our great honor and pleasure to interview Rabbi Sharon Cohen at the Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History studio here in Lexington, Kentucky. So thank you, rabbi, for joining us today.

SHARON: A pleasure.

PATEL: Um, so we're gonna start the interview chronologically, beginning with, like, your childhood and young adult life, and then transition it into your roles in the community and family life. And so, for the record, could you please state your name?

SHARON: I am Sharon Cohen.

PATEL: Okay, so to begin: when and where were you born?

SHARON: I was born in, uh, Miami, Florida--

PATEL: --um-hm--

SHARON: --and, uh, do you want a date? --(laughs)-- Nineteen sixty-nine. Um, and, uh, grew up there, um, until I was twelve.

PATEL: Uh, could you tell us a little bit about your family background, with, like, your parents or grandparents?

SHARON: Sure. Um--(clears throat)--my, uh, uh--grew up with both grand--grandparents on each side. Um, my--uh, they were both down in Florida as well, so I had the opportunity to be--uh, spend time with them. Um, my, um, grandparents, all of them were born, actually, here in the United States. Um, my great-grandparents were born in Russia and came as immigrants, um, in the late 1800s. And, um, so my grandmother was--who lived to be ninety-nine--was actually, uh, born in Chicago, and, and her parents brought her down to Florida. So my mom was a native. My father came from, uh, Pennsylvania and, uh, his parents eventually moved down from Pennsylvania when he was a young boy, so he grew up in Miami as well.

PATEL: Um, what were your parents' names and, like, occupations?

SHARON: My, uh, mom, Sheila, um, it was, uh--in addition to, 00:02:00certainly, spending time with us as kids, raising us, um, she, uh, was, um--different kinds of jobs, but did a lot of, uh, personnel in, in a, in a hospital, in the personnel department and, um, was an executive assistant, uh, later on in her career, running an office in a--as an executive assistant for someone. So, um, she, she was pretty busy. My dad, um, is an--kind of an odd--people look at me funny when I tell them what he did, but he made zippers. --(laughter)-- Um, he's retired now, but, um, he, um, worked for a company that manufactured zippers, and later on, hook-and-loop, which is Velcro, so they were kind of on the cutting edge of that kind of, uh, explosion of, of different fasteners. And, um, he, uh, worked, uh, in a, in a plant down there, um, as kind of a manager, and did sales as well. And, uh, that's eventually what brought us up to Tennessee, which is where I spent my teenage years onward. Um, he had to transfer from, from one place and moved to a new, new, uh, 00:03:00company, and so that brought us up to Tennessee. But, uh, he was great to have around when you had to, uh, fix your sleeping bag with your zipper broken--(laughter)--or, uh, any things like that. He, he was very handy with that. So he, uh, he, um--they both worked hard, and certainly shared responsibilities of taking care of, of us as kids. So.

PATEL: Um, how were your parents involved within the Jewish community, and, like, how does that differ from your Jewish identity now, perhaps?

SHARON: Um, I think they gave me a great foundation. Um, we were always involved, from my memories onward. We went to Jewish preschool, um, Jewish summer day camp from part of the congregation of the synagogue, uh, part of the preschool program. And, um, we, uh--they were always active. We were always members of a Conservative congregation. Um, they, uh, were on the board, you know, either the education committee or the board, being active as leaders. And, uh, my father, I remember, um, when I would go off to Sunday school 00:04:00to the religious school close, to the congregation we belonged to, my father would trek down, about forty-five minutes down south, in south Miami, and would, um, be teaching Sunday school down there. So I had good role models in terms of our engagement with the community there in particular. And when we moved to Tennessee, that kind of continued, both, you know, my dad ended up being a president of the congregation at some point, and, um, and, uh, being very active, both of them. So good precedent for me, and very similar to kind of how I'm now--we're working in terms of raising our kids. We've got two little ones in a Jewish preschool and, and, uh--so that the foundation is, is really strong that way.

PATEL: Um-hm.

SHARON: Um, they, they both kind of came from different, um, um, environments. My mom's parents were much more on the liberal, Reform side. They were not very observant at all--

PATEL: --um-hm--

SHARON: --they didn't keep kosher, those kind of things. Um, but my 00:05:00dad's side did, and my dad--my grandparents kept a kosher home, um, and, um, in fact, my dad's brother, um, was a rabbi as well, was ordained as a Conservative rabbi and moved to Israel, um, really is within the Orthodox circle, actually, in terms of practice and observance. So that side was, was much more traditional, um, than my mom's side, and they kind of melded together, and, uh, um, you know, it kind of--we got to kind of see a middle ground on--in both ways. So.

PATEL: Um, do you have any siblings, and if so, are they, like, in Kentucky, or how are they also involved in the Jewish community?

SHARON: Um, I--I had two brothers, um, two older brothers. Um, one has since passed away, just a little over a year ago. Um, and he lived all kinds of different places in the country, so, um, not very Jewishly connected--

PATEL: --um-hm--

SHARON: --but in his heart, yes--

PATEL: --okay--

SHARON: --just not necessarily community-wise. Uh, my older brother is, uh, currently lives in Tennessee, in Chattanooga still, and he's a doctor. And he, um, he, uh, he is, you know, again, and also has a very Jewish heart, 00:06:00a very connected heart into, to caring about the world and about the Jewish community in particular, um, and, uh, um, he just--I was just talking with him, um, and he was just doing our Passover shopping for, for the holidays, gonna come up and be able to spend the holidays. He, he would--when I was a rabbi at, at Ohavay Zion here, he, um, came up for almost all the holidays. He would--for the High Holy Days, he would come up. So it was really nice to be able to have, um, family--

PATEL: --um-hm--

SHARON: --literally sitting in the pew when I was serving as rabbi, and, and that was nice. So he's always been very supportive of, of who I am and what I've done. And, and connected in his own way.

PATEL: Um, to backtrack a little, you mentioned how, uh, growing up, you also inten--attended, like Jewish schools and all that. Um, where did you go to college, if you did?

SHARON: I did. Um, I went to Washington University in St. Louis--

PATEL: --um-hm--

SHARON: --for my undergrad. Um, and then after that, um, I went on 00:07:00to, uh, what was really a pre-rabbinical program, but part of the rabbinical program, the rabbinical school program, I went to was at the University of Judaism in Los Angeles. It's now American Jewish University, is what it's called now. Um, and at that point it was not its own school, so I--it was a joint program with the Jewish Theological Seminary in New York, so I did my time in St. Louis in undergrad, went two years in Los Angeles to the UJ, to the AG--AJU. Uh, did a year in Israel, um, in rabbinical school as part of that program, and then finished off my, uh, last three years in New York. So I did kind of bicoastal, middle--(laughter)--south; I've kind of had a chance to live in many different areas in the world--in the country, rather--and have a, a sense of different cultures, uh, in terms of, of locations in America. It's kind of, kind of neat I've had that chance to do that. Living in Florida, growing up, formative years, in, in Tenne--in Tennessee and Chattanooga, um, and, uh, and then, um, being able to go to the Midwest in St. Louis, out to 00:08:00Los Angeles, back to New York, um, now here in Kentucky. So I'm, I'm kind of--had a good chance to see lots of America--and--

PATEL: --um-hm--

SHARON: --Jewish America too, which is nice.

PATEL: Um, what made you decide to attend, like, uh, Jewish heritage colleges?

SHARON: Um, yeah, WashU at the time, I think, was like a third of the population, they say, was Jewish, so. For me, I--again, I mentioned Tennessee--when, when I was twelve, my parents--we moved to Chattanooga, um, Tennessee, which is very different than Miami, Florida. Um, it's about the size of, of the Jewish community here. Uh, had three congregations--small, fairly small congregations. Um, and, um, I was one of ten Jewish kids in my entire school, high school. Um, for a time, my brother--we were three years apart--he was one of those ten, so. --(laughter)-- There was two of us, uh, out of the ten. Um, so I was looking for, um, an environment that I could kind 00:09:00of feel more comfortable. I always kind of felt like a fish out of water a little bit, um, because of just being different a little bit--

PATEL: --yeah--

SHARON: --religiously, and celebrating holidays differently. Um, you know, uh. So it--going to WashU, I, I had looked at different places. I also was very interested in history; it was a good place for, um, as--for a history major, if I wanted to do that. Had a lot of opportunities for that, was a good program. Um, and primarily the, the Jewish community was, was really strong at that point at the school. I think it still is, but then it was really strong. And my year, um, was, uh, we came in as, uh, freshmen--there was a big, big group of us. A group of seniors had left, and they were scared that there wasn't gonna be anybody to kind of--

PATEL: --um-hm--

SHARON: --help with programming, Jewishly speaking, at the Hillel there. And, uh, my class came in and we just kind of took over the place, whether they liked it or not. But, uh, it's where I kind of built a lot of my friendships and connections. And, um, it was an easy --thankfully got scholarship 00:10:00that allowed--

PATEL: --um-hm--

SHARON: --me to go there, 'cause we certainly didn't have the, the financial means to go wherever I wanted. I had to work hard to, you know, do loans and scholarship stuff that I could, and, uh, was lucky enough to, uh, to get in and to go there. And it, it was a fantastic experience, because, again, um, there was a lot of opportunity for, for leadership and for Jewish leadership--

PATEL: --um-hm--

SHARON: --as students. Um, we kind of came in and, me, along with a couple other people, we were coordinators for the, um, Conservative, uh, Jewish minyan, the, the Conservative movement minyan there, and helped cook for Friday night dinners, and any kind of programming. Um, it really helped me in that, um, the rabbis there, um--and that was certainly a draw--they had a, uh, a wonderful Hillel house--

PATEL: --um-hm--

SHARON: --uh, location, a place to be. Um, they had two rabbis who were staffing the, the, the program at the time, um, plus they, again, the academics, but Jewishly, they, um, they really, um, kind of helped me continue on 00:11:00the path that I'd already been on, but to strengthen it a lot more. Um, one of the rabbis heard about the University of Missouri at Columbia needed a, a, quote, cantor, somebody to do the singing for the High Holy Day services that they did at the Hillel in University of Missouri Columbia, and he had thought of me, because I did a lot of synagogue skills, a lot of--uh, pra--doing the prayers, a lot of singing, a lot of reading of the Torah, and, uh, plugged me into that group, and I was able to lead the holiday, High Holy Day services in terms of--as a cantor--not as a rabbi, but as a cantor--for two years there. And it was fantastic. It was a great experience, and that really set me--um, that I was I think freshman and summer--you know, the next year, freshman and sophomore years. So that really set me forward as strengthening my skills to be able to offer that to a community later on where I knew all the services not from just the rabbi point of view, but from the cantor, the chanting, the, the singing, the prayer part. And that kind of gave me, um, a real jumpstart, uh, 00:12:00later on in my rabbinic career to be able to be doing that. So. --(clears throat)--

PATEL: Um, so, you've been very involved within the Jewish community all throughout your life, and up to this point, have you had any experiences with anti-Semitism personally that you would like to share?

SHARON: That's a good question. Um, you know, when I, when I think of that question, I think I--I come back to one incident in high school, believe it or not--

PATEL: --um-hm--

SHARON: --so I'm happy to say that that's probably the thing that stuck with me the most, when some obnoxious guy said to me, "Well, what are you, a Jew?" And I floored him, left him speechless, when I said, "Yes." And he looked at me, didn't--never gotten that answer before when he probably said it to someone else. Um, and, uh, um, it was regarding a stereotype that he was reacting to--

PATEL: --mm--hmm--

SHARON: --and, uh--so I, I--that was probably one of my first and 00:13:00only blatant anti-Semitic experiences.

PATEL: Um-hm.

SHARON: You know, I, I carried it with me a little bit. Obviously I've carried it with me, because I'm sharing it with you. But, um, I'm thankful to think that that's really the worst of the worst that I personally have gotten. The rest of anything I've experienced has been mostly just ignorance--

PATEL: --okay--

SHARON: --I don't think it's blatant anti-Semitism, I think it's more just not really, uh, you know, understanding cultural differences, not really--I don't think it's from a--was a place of meanness, I think it was just, again, a place of ignorance. So I've had, you know, comments or, or things people have said or done that were negative but not traumatic, and again, I wouldn't necessarily qualify them as anti-Semitic like that first incident.

PATEL: Um-hm.

SHARON: But that, that did fuel my, you know, recognition that I was different, especially in high school, um, and that, um, it was, you know, it, it--again, going to a Jewish, uh, a Jewish community in college that, that was 00:14:00open and receptive. Going to a college, rather, that had a Jewish community that was strong was important, partly because of that. Um, and so I, I think that's--again, I'm lucky, I'm sure I'm lucky, than--um, have had, um, again, probably other little, small things that people have done or said, but, um, you know, I think when you're a minority, you kind of have to put certain glasses on when you hear people say things. You can either react in a negative way and take it as "Oh, they're anti-Semitic," or you have to process and think, Are they saying that just out of ignorance or out of meanness? And I think that's one piece of, of, uh, of the experience you have to kind of think about before you judge it. So.

PATEL: Um, do you have any other memories from growing up that you'd like to share, and perhaps happier ones? --(laughs)--

SHARON: Sure, yes, definitely. Um--yeah, I, I, I would tell you, um, something very important that formulated who I am and then kind of led me to 00:15:00where I am today, for sure, was that move from, from Miami to, to Tennessee, to Chattanooga. Um, I've written about it in college essays and things like that too because it really--in retrospect, it really, um, made such a difference for me. I--when I was in Miami, the--and this will probably come up when we talk, probably, about gender--

PATEL: --um-hm--

SHARON: --um, growing up in the synagogue, we grew up--and at that point, um, women did not have equal access to things. Um, you know, women weren't allowed to get onto the bimah, the platform where we, you know, lead the prayers and actually sing and, and lead. It was only in certain contexts. Um, women were not rabbis, that I experienced, certainly, um, at that point in the Conservative movement, where we were a part of things. So, um, moving to Tennessee, it was a small congregation, so it--on contrary--contast--contrast to the congregation in Miami, which was very large, so you could get lost very easily. Um, 00:16:00but in, in Chattanooga, it was a small congregation with a very forward-thinking community and rabbi who had just not long before, I guess, struggled to make that congregation egalitarian, so that women and men had equal roles, and women could get up and do everything that the men could do, including wearing the prayer shawl and the head covering and things like that. So, um, I went from the environment where I wasn't allowed to do anything to an environment where I was invited and asked. And that was a big contrast for a sixth-grader, a twelve-year-old--

PATEL: --um-hm--

SHARON: --who was trying to figure out where she fit in the world. Um, especially moving from a place where I was comfortable as a kid to this scary new culture, and now it's a, a, you know, a new Jewish culture that I really wanted and didn't know was available to me. So that was a very big piece of, of my identity that was formed, and at the right time, being a young teenager. Um, and the rabbi really, he and his wife, they in a sense adopted me 00:17:00and, uh, put me to work teaching Sunday school at, at fifteen. I was an aide in the Sunday school, on the religious school on Sundays, and eventually I was teaching the kindergarten class before, you know, and sixteen or seventeen--with help. With a lot of guidance. So I started my teaching, education career early, you know, again, with a lot of help. Um, but they saw, you know, potential in me, and I think they saw that love that I had and cult--they helped cultivate it. Uh, I went out to camp. They made sure that we were--there were several of us that went to Jewish summer camp, sleepaway camp, um, in California, that was Camp Ramah, which is a Conservative movement-based camp. And it was, I think, soon after that that I came back and said, "I want to keep kosher." You know, we, we'd always done some piece of, of, of keeping kosher, to some extent, in our home, but, um, you know, I gave up eating meat out, you know, non-kosher meat out, I didn't eat anymore. And, um, by freshman year, when I came back from college, uh--I did that at the end of high school, and my parents were very supportive. And by freshman year they had done changes in the kitchen 00:18:00so that when I came home, "We have a set of pots and pans for, for you to use," you know. And so that, that experience of moving to Chattanooga, it sounds funny and most people think it's odd, but when you are living in a big community, it's easy--it becomes very easy to get what you need, to, um, either get lost or be part of things. You can, you can, you know, kind of curl back or you can go forward; there's lots of opportunities. But, um, when you're in a small community, people are going to grab you--(laughs)--if they can. Um, and, you know, you want to connect if that's your way of connecting. So, um, it was fantastic for me, and it's really, in the end, why I ended up back here in Lexington--why I ended up here in Lexington--because it was like coming back home.

PATEL: Um-hm.

SHARON: I could relate to the kids that I was gonna work with because they were one of ten or fifteen kids in the, you know, at Dunbar, who were Jewish kids in school. Um, you know, I, I understood what it was to, um, you know, 00:19:00to have people say to you when you're a high-schooler, "What are you?" You know, to, to have those kind of antenna up, worrying about your, your environment. Um, and/or--and, you know, to try to express your Judaism in a place where it's--you're in a great minority, um, and you don't have a lot of people around you to, to help out, so you kind of join together, and you kind of, um, bond. Um, so that, the--I think that experience of moving to Tennessee was paramount in my, in my life. Um, I wouldn't--I've always said I would not be a rabbi today if that experience--

PATEL: --um-hm--

SHARON: --had not happened, if we had not moved. And as difficult as it was as a twelve-year-old, you know, as a sixth-grader, to--finishing sixth grade, elementary school, and moving, starting a whole new life, it, it really was a whole new life for me. It really was. So I, I became very active in the congregation and, um, and again, very close to the, to the rabbi, uh, and his wife--and I still am. We're, we're like family still. So.

PATEL: Um, do you guys have any?

MORRIS: All right. All right, so now that we've talked about your experiences growing up and in your higher education, let's talk a little about your professional life after college. Could you tell us about the different jobs you've had and how they figured into your Jewish identity?

SHARON: Sure. Um, well, I was--when I came out of rabbinical school--I went straight from, from college to, uh, rabbinical school, and again, it was a six-year program, so, um, it, it was, uh--(laughs)--I was--it was like being a--doing a PhD, so when you're finished, you're finally done at something like twenty-eight or so, I think. So I, um, I, um, uh, interviewed. I knew I wanted to do, um, pulp--be a pulpit rabbi at that point. I wanted to be in the congregation. Uh, I'd loved Hillel, and I'd loved working with teaching, I loved education, but I had, um--again, I mentioned the rabbi a minute ago had been really--uh, had him as a mentor, and his wife, and really got to see what life in a congregation was like, so I --that's where I wanted to be. I'm 00:21:00like, I gotta go there. Um, I--it, it's diverse, and it--we can talk more about why later, but, um, I took that track. And coming out of rabbinical school, um, we do an interview process, just like everybody. Um, we just have to find the right fit, the right community, um, that's, that, that, you know, they like us and we like them. Um, it's not like some, um, Christian denominations where you're placed somewhere. We go through, you know, regular interviews and, um, interview weekends, and eventually we, we, we hope it's a match, uh, that we match in a--into a right place. Um, so I spent--actually, it was very lucky. Um, the rabbi that I'd talked about in, in Tennessee, um, had also, had moved on to, uh, Arizona, and that--they were looking for an assistant rabbi at the time that I was interviewing coming out of school. And I applied. And I had the opportunity--a couple of different places that, uh, that I had, um, opportunities to go to as offers, but I felt like starting my career 00:22:00not running the show--(laughs)--being not a senior, not in a small community where I, you know, would have to do everything by myself. Um, that it wasn't such a bad idea to, to start as an assistant and learn, continue to learn. As long as the six-year program is at the--for rabbinical school, it's a lot of text, it's a lot of study, um, but the practical rabbinics are, are sometimes lacking. I think they're much better than they used to be when I was in school. Um, but so getting hands-on in, in a work environment, um, in a mentor environment is, is, uh--was I--was what I think was best for me in particular. So I got lucky, and, um, coming out of school I had, uh, three years at a large congregation in Phoenix--again, being able to work with my mentor. It was a--it was a tough place 'cause there was a lot of politics and things going on at the time, um, so I can't say that it was a healthy environment, necessarily, but I learned a lot and I grew a lot and I honed my skills somewhat. 00:23:00Um, and after three years, um, I, I was--it was time--that's not unusual. Very often places will have an assistant for just a few years. Uh, some, some groom you to take over eventually; others, you know, kind of training ground. Um, and for a variety of reasons, it was time to kind of move forward. And that's when I applied for the position in--here in Lexington. Um, again, noting that it was, um, a good fit, um, culturally and just understood the community well since I grew up in that same kind of environment. And so I ended up here for, uh, nine years, as the rabbi at Ohavay Zion. Um, I don't know if you want me to keep going in the whole employment--

MORRIS: --yeah, go ahead, yeah--

SHARON: --employment game. Okay. So, uh, I had nine fabulous years, um, and, uh, I was actually asked to kind of sign on for another five-year 00:24:00contract. I was about to be forty and started thinking about if I did that for five more years, then, um, I would be forty-five, and most likely the chances of--not married yet and not kids--and most likely the chances of that happening were probably very slim to none at that point. And that if I was going to fulfill that other side of my life, meaning find a life for myself, um, beyond--(laughs)--my work, um, I, I would need to probably make some specific changes. And so that's really what drove me, um, to basically say, "You know what? I love this community, um, but I need to make a change." And I was getting kind of burned out as well, because again, that was my whole life. My friends were part of the congregation, my everything I did was part of the community or congregation. Um, my identity, you know, was as rabbi, as opposed to Sharon. And, um, you know, when push came to shove, I came home at night, I 00:25:00had a dog, but, uh, that was it, and I still wanted that part of, of life in terms of a family if I could. So I made the very difficult decision, and I had great friends helping me along the way here, um, to do that. But I, I made the difficult decision to say, "It's time for me to make a change for myself." Um, and in 2009, I ended my tenure. Um, the congregation was phenomenal in understanding why, and very supportive. We had a big going-away party and--or ending party. I didn't really go away in the end--(laughter)--but, um, but an ending party, and, um, uh, just, you know, just very, very supportive of, of this move and the reasons why.

And, um, I applied for, um, the clinical pastoral education program at the, the vet--uh, VA [Veterans Affairs] here, the VA hospital here. Um, ironically I had been a member of their advisory committee as a rabbi in the 00:26:00community. They wanted a Jewish influence, and so that was, you know, one way I served. And, and, um, I realized that chaplaincy could be a way--was certainly something I loved to do. Um, I loved visiting people in the, you know, the hospital, people in need. Um, I, uh, enjoyed those pastoral care experiences, and so, uh, the CPE program, um-there are several now in the, in the city; this was, uh, one of the only ones at the time, I think--uh, gave me an opportunity to kind of now focus my attention on chaplaincy and hone those pastoral care skills in an interfaith setting as opposed to a Jewish setting. So, um, they graciously accepted me, and, um, it was a yearlong residency. Uh, very minimal pay. And, but for the most part, regular hours. You know, I was home at 5:00--out at 8:00 and home at 5:00. So for the first time in my life, my adult life, certainly, I was doing the, uh, you know, 8:00 to 5:00 routine--(laughs)-- or 9:00 to 5:00 routine. Um, in the synagogue life, your day is who 00:27:00knows what, and, and who knows how it's going to go, and who knows, the timing each week is different. So this was some structure that, that gave me what I hoped would give me time to kind of start pursuing, um, more of a social life and more engagement outside. And this was a vehicle for, for being able to change that piece of things. So I was there for a year at the VA--phenomenal experience.

Um, and, uh, I interviewed coming out of that--it was an August to August program--and in 2010 I started interviewing, recognizing that I probably was gonna have to leave Lexington, there probably was not much for me here, and socially, um, there wasn't a whole lot. I was in the fishbowl before that and didn't find a, a, a spouse and didn't find that area of my life, and, and most likely, um, I would have to do something. And I had been online, by the way, in terms of eHarmony and JDate and all those other things, to try and stretch my, um, my wings a bit in terms of the social, uh, uh, situation, and, 00:28:00you know, had not had success. So I recognized I probably would need to find a place that, um, that I could find a bigger Jewish community, as much as I didn't w--really want that, um, but allow me to kind of hopefully find a, a social base for myself, um, beyond what Lexington offered. So, uh, as I was looking for a job, um, had a couple of different positions and offers, and one that almost worked out in Orlando, uh, but didn't, where I have friends and family.

And, um, so I came back here, and around that time, as I was starting to do interviewing, uh, I met online my--Jeffrey, who became my husband--(laughs)--a year later, but, um, so, you know, and we met online, ironically; it wasn't in a different place, it wasn't in a different city. And just the way it worked out in terms of jobs for him and me, um, I ended up finding a position here, that kept me here, and he came up, and he came up from--where d--where was he from, of all places? Florida. --(laughter)-- Full circle. He was from South 00:29:00Florida, from Fort Lauderdale, via New York. He had grown up--very similar--he had grown up in New York and moved when he was fifteen to Florida, so he had that same experience of moving as a, you know, teenager, and how difficult that was. Um, so we share that experience. Um, but in any case, um, we ended up, even if it was just gonna be temporary, I had the house here already, um, he was kind of more in flux, and so he came up to me. And I ended up getting a position at Kentucky Organ Donor Affiliates as, uh, a family support liaison. And what that involved was basically--(laughs)--all of the training that I'd had previous. Um, it was pastoral care, uh, it was, um, chaplaincy, it was education, kind of all rolled into one. Um, the job was really working with families in the hospital, um, making the decision whether to donate, um, organs on behalf of 00:30:00their loved ones. And so those situations were extremely, um, difficult, emotionally charged. Um, most of these were, you know, tragic accidents. Somebody would come in with a head injury from an accident, and clearly, you know, brain death was imminent or had happened, and my job was to provide support, literally, counsel, um, offer to them, eventually, when it was the right time--and that was always the tricky part, is to find the right emotional time to present to them the idea of organ donation, um, for their loved one. And then if they decided, to walk them through the process. It was very intense job, emotionally exhausting. Physically exhausting too, because they were twenty-four-hour, um, twenty-four-hour, uh, uh, shifts that we had, and you never knew if you were going to be called--after a day, you could be called at seven o'clock at night, time to go to the hospital. I spent many a night at UK--(laughs)--and watched the sun rise out the window, um, because, 00:31:00you know, our shift was from 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. basically.

So I got that position. Um, it kept us here, and Jeffrey did odd jobs, um, in getting his--he's a CPA, so it got him a chance to kind of try to look for positions. Economically, the economics of the time were not great, 'cause this was 2011, which is, was still job--you know, was a lot of high unemployment, and it was a difficult time to transition, uh, but somehow we figured out how to make it work. And, uh, I worked three years at KODA. Um, terrific experience, exhausting. Um, it was--you know, there was flexibility with our hours when we weren't on call, so that was actually nice, um, but, you know, when we were on, we were on, and it was very, very intense work.

Um, eventually I, uh--we, we got lucky enough to get pregnant and have our first child, Jonah, and I remember this specifically. I was sitting in his room and getting ready to put him into bed, and I was on call, which didn't 00:32:00mean I had to be anywhere specific unless I got called at that point in the evening, and I remember getting called and, um, and, uh, I had to go to the PICU, to the pediatric ICU at UK for a pediatric case, a child injury, whatever it was. I don't remember the details. And I remember crying. I remember sitting there crying because I'm like, I'm leaving--I have to leave my own child, putting my child to sleep tonight, to go now deal with parents who are about to lose their child. And, uh, I decided at that moment, it was time--if I was struggling that much, despite the support I had from Jeffrey and the love of, you know, now Jonah, um, it was time to kind of move on in terms of my experience. And, um, in, in terms of my work, you know, I only have so many years to be a mom with little kids, and it was--I didn't want to lose that. So, um, started the process--it--of--I think it took another year, 00:33:00almost, of transitioning eventually to, uh, to, uh, um, leaving KODA.

And, uh, the opportunity arose to be a pool chaplain at St. Joe, and again, I kind of went back to my CPE training to be able to do that. Jeffrey thankfully got a, a stable job, which allowed me to kind of flip-flop. I was kind of being the breadwinner for a little while while he was picking; now I was doing the opposite. And it allowed me to do that. That was the key for us. And, um, made the--made that transition from KODA just as we found out, basically, that we were having, uh, Joshua, number two. Um, so it worked out perfectly that I could start doing my chaplaincy work at St. Joe as a pool chaplain, um, still be mom, and, uh, get ready to have the, the second baby and, uh--(laughs)--juggle all of that. And, uh, finally, along came, last August, um, with Judy Wortman, who was our federation director here in town for nine years. When I left OZS, 00:34:00she had just basically come--(laughs)--and, um, she, uh, chose to retire, and with her retirement, um, came changes at the Jewish Federation here, and that pr--provided for me an opportunity to do some part-time, um, work as, the title is director of adult and youth education. But basically working as a--with the team to kind of do programming and education work at the federation.

So, you know, it sounds like a lot of bouncing around but, um, but it's varied experiences but all feed into the same, you know, learning and education that I had for my foundation from, from, you know, undergrad and from, uh, rabbinical school, and then my CPE program, which really kind of, um, put it all together. So, um--(clears throat)--now I'm, I'm, I'm juggling kind of two different little jobs, I guess, and, and the two boys, uh, and, uh, enjoying not 00:35:00being, um, the one who gets the late-night phone calls or the you have to go run and do this. Um, I'm, I'm happy to be able to kind of put the kids as my priority and put Jeffrey as my priority. So.

MORRIS: Mm-kay. Since you were talking about the--your family, is there anything else you would want to share about that and how that factors into your Jewish identity?

SHARON: In terms of my immediate family, my kids--

MORRIS: --yeah--

SHARON: --and--yeah. Um, well, I think that the fact that we stayed here, that we were able to--you know, that Jeffrey and I got married here, in the end, um, was, um, amazing. Um, and--'cause I can't think of wanting to raise my children anywhere but a place like Lexington or, like, Chattanooga. Again, a small community that gave me the same in--you know, opportunities that I had as a young kid. Um, they're, they're embraced so much, even though we're no longer--I'm no longer leading the congregation, you know, my friends and connections are there. Um, Rabbi Smolkin is, is a tremendous, you 00:36:00know, leader for the congregation now. He took over when I left; he, he interviewed and was brought in. And, um, and he, uh, he has his own kids who are al--were almost the same ages of our kids, so, um, our kids are peers. Uh, so, I, I can't think of anywhere else I'd rather be in terms of raising our children. Um, because, again, they're--they, they feel comfortable, um, they are--you know, we take--we're busy with all the synagogue things that are going on, kids' Shabbat and all the different things that Rabbi Smolkin has put together since I--since, since, you know, he's been here, and, um, trying to take advantage--certainly, the kids go to the--to Gan Shalom, the preschool that was just starting when I moved here. Um, it had just started; the program was just beginning. My first year here as rabbi, um, Gan Shalom started, and it's, um, you know, all these years later--that's sixteen years later, I guess, seventeen, going on seventeen years later--it's still a thriving school. And, and I never dreamed my kids would be going there. So, um, so we're 00:37:00involved as much as we can be, um, and again, it's nice not being in the rabbi role, um, that, that we can choose to do what we want and feel what we want, in terms of, of connecting with, with, uh, activities and things for them. But we, you know, we're involved just as much, I think, as any congreg--you know, any congregant in the community. Um, and, uh, certainly trying to help out. I got--I'm helping at least to volunteering to do music on, on Sunday mornings for, for the kids. So it's fun. I get to meet these new kids and new families that weren't around when I was here, um, and at the same time, engage with my own child in this too. So, um, it, it, it--again, I can't imagine anywhere else that I'd rather raise--and that was one reason of staying here, if we could, is knowing that Jewishly, it's a great environment. Again, people think from big cities, it's contrary--Why would you want to raise your kid in a place where they're such a minority? Well, it's the best place to be in my mind. 00:38:00Um, it, it's forcing you to--if you want to be Jewish, then you're, you're gonna make the effort, and the community will embrace you in that effort. Um, and, um, you know, you have to work at being Jewish in a smaller place, and you have to be willing to be an ambassador for, uh, for your culture and for your religion and be open to what ever--what everybody else is, because you're not in a homogeneous community. You're in--it's very different for everybody, and your job is to be, again, to represent and to live your life with a sense of, uh, purpose and, um, and with welcoming to diversity that's here that you don't often see in other places. So, I, I'm happy to bring my children up, at least at this stage, with that. Again, they, they feel like a million bucks when they walk into the congregation and everybody knows who they are. --(laughter)-- And that, that's an advantage to being in a small community. It's not just 'cause they're rabbi's kids, it's because it's a small community, and we all 00:39:00know who the ten kids are who are two year--you know, two years old in the entire community. We know them, uh, and, and we embrace them, and we, we, we want to keep them engaged. So--

MORRIS: --okay--

SHARON: --hope that answers your question.

MORRIS: All right. Well, to backtrack a little bit, what was it like being a rabbi in a midsize Southern town in the 2000s?

SHARON: Hmm, way long ago. --(laughter)-- Way, way back. Um, it was--again, I--you know, as a single woman, it was interesting, challenging--(laughs)--um. I kind of look back and go, Wow, I was pretty brave at that point to do what I did. What an idiot--or what an idiot I was--(Morris laughs)--I don't know if I was brave or an idiot. But, um, it, it, it was, uh--it was a great--again, a great experience. I kind of lived the experience that I thought I might, having, again, grown up as the other side of it, as a kid, watching my rabbi do what he did. Um, the, the pluses are you--and I became a part of the 00:40:00community, and, and, you know, you become--regardless of the size or what community you're in, hopefully, if you're a successful rabbi--hopefully you become a part of people's lives. You know, you're there to create smiles. You're there to create memories. You're there to hold a hand when it's needed. Um, you're there to help guide and educate and pull people along. Um, you know, uh, so it--I think, you know, that that focus--you know, that was my focus, and so, um, you know, I--again, I didn't have the other side of things at that point. I didn't have the family. I had no family here. Um, so people embraced me. Uh, the, the--I'm gonna mention them by name--the Coopers, uh, Harriet and Leon Cooper were amazing. Um, um, we call Leon--Harriet has since passed away, but we call Leon, uh, Zayde, which is "grandfather," you know. Um, uh, 00:41:00'cause that's how we feel about him. He was--they were both--they were--they had me for every holiday. So I, I had pseudo family here, and it didn't take long to find that, which I'm thankful for. Um, and so I wasn't as lonely as I probably could have been by myself, um, because I did have, you know, started to forge some friendships, and certainly found couple of different people like them that I could talk to and, and, you know, lay it on the line about.

Flip side of that is, as a rabbi by yourself, or as a rabbi, you are in a fishbowl, and everybody knows what you're doing, and everybody wants to know what you're doing. And, you know, you're--it's just by virtue of being, quote, a "public figure." Um, you know, you--you always have to kind of watch what you say or what you're doing or who you are, in terms of your expression of things you like to do. You like to keep things private if you can, 'cause it's not easy. I'll give you an example. I remember when I first got here, early on, someone said, "Oh, let me take you out to lunch. I want to tell you more about the city, and." So I went to lunch, you know, with this person, 00:42:00and, and, um, soon, soon, I think within a few weeks, I heard, "We heard you're dating, you know." And I'm like, "Really?" --(laughter)-- "Yeah, we heard that they saw--somebody saw you at lunch. You were out to lunch, so you're dating, right?" I'm like, "Really? We went out to lunch!" --(laughter)-- You know, so there, there was always, um--you know, there was always that, that perception. You always kind of had to look over your shoulder and go, Hmm, what is everyone else seeing in this? --(laughter)-- Uh, it's innocent, but, you know, it's what people want. Um, it's what people want to see. So that was hard. That was hard, because you really felt like you didn't have, um, you know, have a private life at all, and that's difficult. I think if I had been married at the time, I would have, again, come home and not talked to the dog, I would have had a spouse and, you know, another side of my life to kind of focus on, and I wouldn't have gotten so enmeshed and enraveled and--I mean, you know, kind of put into that. Um, there would have been less to hopefully talk about. Um, "Who's 00:43:00the rabbi dating?" You know, that, that didn't--(laughter)--I wouldn't have had that as an issue.

But--(laughs)--so, you know, that's the negative of being in a small community and being the only--you know, being that person, um, you know, being the only paid professional in the congregation. That--you know, it's not like if you're in a big congregation, there's an assistant, there's an education director, there's a this, there's a that. Um, we had our education director, Simone Solomon, who's, um, lived here all her life, and she was tremendous to work with. And so she and I--I mean, I was lucky to have her. She was the other, um, paid professional, if you will, at the time. And, um, you know, so there--there were ups and downs, a lot of ups and downs. Um, more ups than downs. But I think being a rabbi in that environment really--and in this environment today--gives that opportunity to really forge some amazing relationships and to make a difference, really know you're making a difference. You know, when you talk to a big congregation of five hundred people sta--sitting out there, you 00:44:00don't know if you've connected with anybody, but when you maybe only have fifty people in the room, and you can see their faces, um, you know whether you--that was a good talk or not. You know, Did I give a good talk today? Well, I think so because, you know, that one didn't fall asleep, and this one stayed awake, and that one asked a question--(laughter)--so I must have done something right today.

Um, you know, or, you know, you have a chance to concentrate on, on--I'll give you one of the examples from things that--my joy in, um, particular joy in the rabbinate, um, in the congregation in particular here, was working with our teenagers for bar and bat mitzvah. Again, I moved to a new congregation when I was, you know--sixth grade, when I was twelve--had just turned twelve--so I knew what it was like to be an awkward teenager in this commu--in a community like this. So I, um, I really enjoyed working with our, with our b'nai mitzvah kids, our thirteen--twelve, thirteen--eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen-year-old--the post- kids too--and really seeing them shine, really seeing their 00:45:00self-esteem grow. Helping them smile, helping them go through the bar and bat mitzvah experience, which is leading the services, learning to read from the Torah--all those skills that I had learned as a teenager onward, um, that I--when I moved from Tennessee, all the sudden--you know, moved to Tennessee, I was able to do. Well, you know, I wanted those kids to have that enjoyment and experience. And so, um, that was a particular joy for me. Um--seeing their faces when they were--on their big day, and seeing them accomplish, you know, something they didn't think they could do, in terms of reading the Torah. The best part about it was I worked really hard to get them to come back and to continue their skills. And we were pretty successful about doing that, and that to me was, you know, what brought a lot of joy to being a rabbi. So I could put aside the, Ugh, got another meeting to go to, or it's going to be a late night working on a talk, or I've got to prep for the--you know, I could put 00:46:00some of that aside when I could see the one kid who's been struggling, and today when I worked with him--(claps)--he got--you know, he got it, or she got it.

MORRIS: Um-hm.

SHARON: Um, and, and, you know, they walk out with a smile on their face. And they don't realize it, but--(laughter)--but that's what was happening. So that made those long hours and those difficult, you know, fishbowl experiences, um, um, well worth it.

MORRIS: Okay. What synagogue were you a rabbi at, and can you share some details of what it was like for that synagogue?

SHARON: Okay, well, just a--just kind of talking about, um, Ohavay Zion. And, and when I was in Phoenix, it was, uh, very sim--sim--very different, rather. Um, my congregation in Phoenix--again, I was an assistant, I was doing specific programs, but I got a taste of lots of different things in a very large comm--community and environment. Um, so when I came here to Ohavay Zion Synagogue, um, again, where I was for nine years, um--it was from 2000, 2009--um, it, it was, um--it was a, you know, a great next step. Um, 00:47:00I just was describing some of those experiences with our kids.

Um, I, I was looking back, when I knew you would be asking about this, and I looked back, and I was looking at the last bulletin column I wrote, which was kind of my farewell. And, um, I realized that I had done a thing on, um--I don't know if you all are familiar with the, the music from Rent, "525,600 Minutes," right? It goes--it's talking about how many minutes in a year. So I added up nine years, and I realized it was 4,730,400 minutes of working--(laughter)--as a rabbi in the cong--congregation. And I, um, reflected on what I had done during that period of time. What were those minutes filled with? And came to realize they were filled with, you know, weddings and, um, baby namings and circumcisions and, um, again, working with our bar and bat mitzvah 00:48:00kids as they made that special, um, um, transition from Jewish kids to Jewish adults, if you will; that's what that really marks. Um, worked with adults going through that bar and bat mitzvah experience that they didn't get to do as kids, or that they don't really remember as kids, um, and trying to have them be a part of the skills, the Torah reading, things like that that we did. Conversions. I did at least--more than forty funerals, I think, when I was here. Um, um, you know, obviously talks. Um, doing different, uh, uh, Torah readings. I used to do a lot of, again, teaching Tor--teaching to read Torah, so I think I must have made over a hundred tapes for the kids--at that point it was cassette tapes--(laughter)--not MP3s, which I don't even know what it is now, these days, but we did cassette tapes, transitioning to MP3s. Uh, but, uh, I made 00:49:00a lot of cassette tapes of, of, of the services and of the, uh, Torah readings for people to be learning. And, um, you know, and there's hundreds of visits to people in the hospital and, and nursing homes, at home. All those things, again, are, are based, I guess, on creating relationships. And, and that's to me what being at OZS in particular was about. And I think it still is. I'm sure Rab--Rabbi Smolkin would agree now, serving as rabbi, that that's really what being a rabbi is about. It's really creating those, um, those kisharim, those connections, and, um, you know, finding people where they're at and, and taking them to where they want to be, or helping them get to where they don't know they want to be. --(laughs)-- That's also our--part of our challenge. So, um, you know, when I think about--I, I had fifty-four kids were bar or bat mitzvah--became bar or bat mitzvah when I was at OZS, and I think about those kids every day, and I think--and some of them I see. Some of them have moved back to town, um, and are adults having their own kids now. It's 00:50:00amazing to see that. Um, and, and so just really reflecting and thinking about how, how, um, being a rabbi here allowed me to kind of do that in a very unique way, and touch people's lives in a unique way as well.

MORRIS: Mm-kay. What were the--some of the greatest challenges you faced as a rabbi, specifically as a female rabbi?

SHARON: Um, you know, I--I think unlike some of my colleagues that I was ordained with, I am very lucky in that--you asked a question about anti-Semitism before, and I really think I'm lucky that I haven't had more experiences to relate that were negative. I think it's the same thing in terms of, of being a, a, a woman in this field. It certainly is not--it's getting to be more traditional, if you will, to use that word, but it certainly at my point wasn't. Although a third of the women coming out of rabbinical school in my class were, were women--um, third of the students. So we were growing. We weren't 00:51:00a--we weren't among the pioneers, certainly, but at the same time--we were kind of transition. We weren't among the pioneers, but we weren't, also, the, um, um, commonplace. I think it's certainly--I would like to hope that in most places it's pretty common now. You know, it's not--(gasps)--She's a woman interviewing! or, Oh, there's a woman rabbi! I know it happens. I'm not, um, blind to that, but I think it's, it's less surprising. And I think in my year it was still kind of surprising, but not shocking. How about putting it that way? So when I came here, I know they, Oh, we've never had a rabbi--we never had a female rabbi here! Okay. Um, well, maybe you will now. And how--is that gonna be any different? It may be, just by perception, you know. Um, people's view of a rabbi -- certainly when I was growing up, I had that view--was, you know, a, a guy with a beard, you know, wearing a head covering, a kippah, and, um, got to have the beard; you have to have the beard. --(laughter)-- So that 00:52:00right there, you're standing out, you don't have the beard, well that right there is gonna be--let alone that you're in a dress. That's--or a suit, you know, skirt. That's gonna be shocking for people.

Um, I think here, in particular, in Kentucky, but in, in Lexington, at OZS, there had been--the community had been egalitarian for a while. Women and men were doing equal things. The head of my search committee, who is a good friend, Sue Ezrine, um, was past president. So the congregation had a female president, and she read Torah and did everything that everybody else did. So she, you know, she, she was used to being involved in the, in the life of the congregation--ritually as well--not just, uh, as a leadership role, but in the ritual life of the congregation, which, again, is, is, um--at that point was still somewhat new in some places. Um, but here, I think--again, it goes back to being open to knowing that you're in a small community, and we need to be open to how we do things here and be open to change.

Um, when I first got here, Oscar Haber--he was in his nineties?, eighties, I guess--he has since passed away--um, he was one of the patriarchs of the community. He lived to be over a hundred. Uh, and he--they asked him as the "patriarch," in quotes, right, of the--of OZS, "Well, what do you think about a female--you know, this new rabbi, this woman rabbi?" And, you know, he--they all--they were egging him to be--you know, well, what's he gonna say, because he's probably gonna be negative. He's an old guy, what does he--he's used to the old style. I mean, why would-- He was like, as long--"Yeah, as long as she's good and she can--you know, I don't pray through my rabbi. Um, she--a rabbi's an educator, a rabbi's a teacher." That's what rav means, is "teacher." Um, "So, you know, I'm fine, it's okay." And everyone was--he was quoted in the Lexing--Herald Lexing--you know, the, the Herald-Leader--(laughs)-- 00:54:00uh, the Lexington Herald-Leader, that was one of the people they interviewed when they did the article that, you know, "Rabbi Sharon Cohen is here." Big, you know, big spread in the Faith and Values section. Um, and poor Oscar got the, got the brunt of the questions, because they saw him as the guy who would probably go, Oh, I don't like it. And I think he surprised. He and I had a great relationship, um, and he and I, uh, um, got along famously, and, uh, you know, he's certainly missed. Um, but he was always supportive. And so I think, you know, there's always going to be people that don't like you, not because of just your gender, but of who you are--they don't like your style, you know, they don't like that you're clapping--(claps)--you know, as opposed to, you know, staying--not clapping, or that you're singing a certain way and they're used to a different way, or. Um, you know, whatever things that people don't like about a leader or about a person that they're engaged with, um, I don't 00:55:00think gender was the biggest of issues, yeah. I don't--if they didn't like me, it was probably, hopefully not because of my gender. Um, you know, it was, uh--those are things that are unavoidable when you're, when you're in the rabbinate or when you're in any leadership position. Every--it's not about who likes you, it's about doing the job well and trying to engage as many people as you can. And so I, I think, um, this community was ready for a woman rabbi, didn't blink an eye at it--(laughs)--um, and, uh, um. I know when I left, it was--there were people who were saying, "Oh, well, we need another woman," you know. Well, that's great. I think we've come a long way if that's--we don't even have to worry about those perceptions. Um, we're now going the opposite way, and I would be, Wait, hold on, you might like a guy. I mean, maybe. You've got to find the right person. That's the key. And I think--I think that's where we're slowly moving. And I think we've moved there in the American 00:56:00rabbinate, um, and I think in Lexington we've definitely moved there. I think it's--you know, Rabbi Smolkin was a great fit. He, he came in and, um, you know, put his own stamp on the community, um, which is what he should do, and, um, you know, it's, uh--it's important that you look at the person, again, not the gender. So being a woman--yeah, there were certainly--I tell you, I'll get--I got more looks from, um, the interfaith community, from the non-Jewish community. "Oh, we didn't know women could be rabbis." So most of my time would have been, it was about educating people. Most of my time was about, Oh yeah. And then I would get the, "Oh, well, how many women rabbis are there?" You know. And, um, I would have to explain the, the different movements within Judaism and that, you know, the more liberal movements are, are, you know, have women rabbis, and the non-liberal movements tend not to have women rabb-- 00:57:00you know, don't have women rabbis. And, um, it was a really good opportunity for engagement and education, but I did get more strange looks from, from, from, um, from the non-Jewish community, probably, than the Jewish community.

MORRIS: Mm-kay.

SHARON: Just the way it was.

MORRIS: Mm-kay. Um. I think we've gone into a bit of detail about this already, but what do you consider to be the biggest accomplishments or achievements of your rabbinic legacy at the--OZS?

SHARON: Well, um, that's a hard question. 'Cause it's hard to measure achievements and success, you know. I mean, what do I--oh, that program's still ongoing; I did that. You know? Or that person's still there; that's 'cause, you know, I got them here, you know. Um, I think we probably--that's a hard way to look at, at things. But I think, um, when I look back, I can--it was kind of the list I, I wrote--I mentioned before. Um, I can think about my best accomplishments would be working with those fifty-four teena--you know, teen, teens, and their parents, to get them through an amazing experience, 00:58:00or the, you know, the, the funerals that I officiated at, which involved, you know, intense engagement with families, generally. Um, and gener--very often dealing with the illnesses that brought them to that point for their family member. Um, so I think those are--you know, those are the things, when I look back--I mean, I know there are some things that are still going on there, like, for instance, when I first got, got to OZS, there was a large Friday night presence, like our Friday night Sabbath service was larger, and there was virtually nobody there on Saturday mornings. It was like ten people, twelve people. And the congregation admitted that when I interviewed. They were like, you know, we have a very--we have a better Friday night although it's waning, and we have a, you know--but our Saturday morning is an area that we need to--kind of we want to improve in. Um, and that was exciting for me 00:59:00at the time, because I'm thinking, Wow, that's, you know, that's a goal to work for. And I think by the time I left, um--and I think it continues now--we have a very strong Saturday morning pro--uh, uh, service. Um, I think one of those achievements or successes was keeping those fifty-four--not all fifty-four--but keeping many of those kids involved in, in, in the congregation as they grew, you know, so that to come back on their bar, bat mitzvah anniversary and read from the Torah or, you know, on that Saturday morning, to be engaged that way, I think that was, um, something I could look at with, with some sense of success and achievement, you know, that--at the time, we didn't have a lot of little kids, just the population the way it was. Um, now there are a lot more--there's a population explosion of little ones here now, so the programming becomes different; the focus becomes different. Um, if I had tried to do a, you know, a little, like a kids' Shabbat Rabbi Smolkin's doing now, you know, I don't think we'd have much success 'cause we didn't have a base enough to 01:00:00do it. But at that point I had a base of teenage kids, and so we had a pretty vibrant youth group for several years. Uh, we even hosted a regional convention, which was kind of exciting, that we had ninety-something kids from all around the region come to our USY [United Synagogue Youth] convention, and, you know, that was exciting to be able to host. Uh, so I--I think that that--you know, when I look back, that--the, the Sabbath morning service, really kind of making that a focal point for our community, um, for OZS, was, was a good--I mean, I didn't do it by myself. We worked hard with the lay, lay leadership. But I, I kind of look at that as something that I think I helped contribute to. And, um, and again, you know, keeping the kids involved during that period of time. My hope is that wherever those kids are, that they--if they aren't connected, that they will one day at least feel like they can be--it's a--that they have the skills and somewhat to be if they want. Um, and if nothing else, that 01:01:00they saw the bar or bat mitzvah experience as something positive in their lives, which in my personal experience wasn't as meaning--wasn't very meaningful. But I--hopefully they, they saw that. We worked hard--again, I say "we" 'cause it wasn't just me--we worked hard to make that, uh, an important experience for them. Um, so I think those are, you know, I think those are probably the--couple of the things that I think I look for--uh, that I look at in terms of achievements. But again, I really measure it by the families that I was with--again, officiating funeral, or the hands I held at, at the bedside. Um, you know, those, those stick with me. They're too many to bother mentioning right now, but those, those kind of things are, are flashpoints in my brain. When you ask me that question, I, I think more of the person that I sat with, that I was literally in the living room when that person passed away, 01:02:00that that, that that, that that is not a success or achievement, but it's a focal point of my rabbinate, and of that family's experience, and of my experience with them. And, um, you know, those are the things that kind of pop into my head.

Um, I think the fact that I can still be here now as--not as a rabbi, per se, practicing, but as a, uh--that I can be in the community, I can be in the congregation and still contribute as a, quote, "lay person" in a sense, that, uh, I think that's a, that's, um, something I'm, I'm so pleased about, that, you know, there's a lot of people that can't stay in the community that they led because it's just too--it just doesn't feel comfortable, but this community, you know, has allowed me to do that. And I think that speaks to the experience I had as the rabbi, if that makes any sense. So. Um. I think that's pretty, pretty much where--you know, again, it's the little things. It's the small details. It's the small details that, I think that, that really--the small 01:03:00events and details that make, um--that touch people's lives, that are real--that are the real achievements.

MORRIS: Okay. We've talked a little bit about your career after being a rabbi. Are there any other details you'd want to share about that? Being a Jewish educator or chaplain?

SHARON: You know--(clears throat)--you know, as much as we're talking about being a rabbi in, in a congregation, um--and I was always--I mentioned to you guys earlier I was always, uh, very focused on the pulpit. That's where I wanted to be; that's where things were. And, and I hate to say, our American rabbinate is getting better about it, but that's how they see--um, that's how they see, you know, the importance. Oh, you, you're not a pulpit rabbi? What are, what are you doing, then, you know. Um, so I'm still a rabbi, and I'm always going to be a rabbi, and when I work at St. Joe or when I'm at the federation, you know, the title is always there; you don't lose it. --(laughs)-- And you're always acting as that educator, as a teacher. So, um, you know, I think that, that 01:04:00being in a different environment now, I get the chance to kind of use those same skills and, um, be involved in, in different things. Um, and, um, you know, still, again, flex my rabbinic muscles, if you will, in everything I do.

And as a chaplain, um, you know, I know that it's, it's--I'm the only--at least here on this side of the state, I'm the only, quote, Jewish chaplain there that, that's around. That doesn't mean a whole lot, in my book. It means that I'm--you know, I'm serving everybody in addition to the Jewish community. If I have Jewish patients, if there are Jewish patients, usually my colleagues will say, "Hey, can you go--" you know, "Hey, don't forget," or "This person"--they've gotten several calls. So I'm able to use my rabbinic skills and my r--you know, in my, my, um, experiences as a pulpit rabbi in a different context, basically. Um, so, you know, in my KODA life, I'd never use the title. I went for three years kind of never using the title. I, I've suddenly had a first 01:05:00name again. --(laughs)--

I did--I struggled with whether to wear my head covering, my kippah, out in those environments. That was a struggle for me, and whether I should wear it, um, at--when I was serving later on--in my chaplaincy work. Was that--how was that--should I wear it or not? Would it make other people comfortable or not? That was--you know, forgetting my feeling, what did it do with my relationship with the person as soon as I walked in. Um, consulted with a couple of the other chaplains who, you know, might wear a religious collar or other religious garb.

Um, so when I did my KODA work, though, it was not religious in nature. It was not focused on--it was pastoral care, but not in a religious sense. So I really had three years of it kind of going the opposite direction than I had spent nine years at the synagogue doing, um, which was being a rabbi, a rabbinic leader. And here I was Sharon working with, you know, organ donation. And, 01:06:00um, that was kind of difficult at first and then became more comfortable. Um, I can't say that I'm not happy to kind of get my title back. I worked hard for it. --(laughter)-- And to kind of be in a comfort, in a, in a place where I'm a little more comfortable in some ways. You know, in the Jewish world, working at the federation in particular, I--you know, I can, um--I can use my language again that, that--you know, words I don't have to translate everywhere, or, or, or just concepts, or, or, whatever it is, holidays I'm talking about. Um, I now am kind of back into--professionally back into an environment where I can kind of be a little more comfortable and kind of just let it flow, um, whereas when I was doing my other work, whether at the VA or in KODA, um, it, it was, um, much more challenging. I really kind of felt like I had to in some ways hide who I was. Never revealed, you know, "Oh, hi, I'm a rabbi," you know, unless someone said, "Hey, your last name's Cohen. Are you Jewish?" I once had a 01:07:00patient do this to me at the VA. "Are you Jewish?" I'm like--and I thought--was I gonna--about to get an anti-Semitic thing--(laughter)--or what was gonna happen, right? And I'm like, "Uh, yes, it is a Jewish name." "Oh, are you a rabbi?" "Um, yeah, I actually am." "Oh, I need to talk to you." And that would--you know, I--(laughter)--sitting on pins and needles: What are they asking? --(laughter)-- And it ended up being to my advantage; it was fantastic. But I didn't use my title and I didn't use my, um, my status of what I had done before as, as, uh, the jumping-off point. Ever, ever.

And, um, in my work at St. Joe, I'm--I don't either. You know, "I'm Sharon, I'm one of the chaplains here." If we get around to religion, I, I let the con--let the patient lead that. Um, so I have--I have--I'm kind of compartmentalized these days. I'm--when I'm in the federation world and the synagogue world that, you know, volunteering whatever I'm doing, I'm, uh--you know, I've got the-- I can put the rabbi hat on, I can put the kippah, the head covering, 01:08:00and when I'm in the chaplain world, I kind of draw that back a little bit and put my chaplain hat on, which again is more interfaith, ecumenical, and kind of keep that, those two things a little bit separate. Um, but they definitely intersperse each--within each other, um, and allow me to kind of, you know, have a fuller identity sometimes. But, uh, but they really in some ways are kind of juxtaposed. So it's, it's an interesting dynamic. I have to remember what day it is, right when I put my--(laughter)--my thinking cap on. So, um. But, but, uh, no, I think that's what's been very exciting and unique for me, having had those experiences, you know, being, again, a pulpit rabbi for, for a--twelve years, in essence, nine years here and then kind of going out into the, you know, interfaith world in a very non-Jewish VA environment. That VA was very narrow in its religious environment, very narrow in its age. It's very 01:09:00male-centered. You asked about being a female. Um, most of the vets--that didn't faze them either, by the way. It wasn't just my rabbinic work. Oh. They didn't say, "Oh, a female chaplain?" No, they didn't care. "Oh, hey, how are you?" You know, for them, that was fine. Um, I think some people were surprised by that. I think I was surprised by that in some ways. You know, they--enh, didn't matter to them. They were happy to have you walk in and, and spend some time with them. So that gender thing didn't, didn't matter so much. Um, but, uh, but the Jewish thing was always there. That was definitely always, always there, and, um, there were times I just had to kind of reel it in a little bit. And that was a growing experience for me. Definitely was.

MORRIS: How do you hope to stay involved in the Jewish community in the future?

SHARON: Well, um, I, uh--my husband always says, "Well, you want to go back and, you know, be in the pulpit?" and part of me says, "Yeah!" and the 01:10:00other part of me goes "No way!" --(laughter)-- Um, I don't rule that out. I can't--I can see--I mean, but it would be when the kids are much older and that, that I don't affect their lives. And more importantly, that I can know that, um, you know, I've given them as my priority, to the point that they're no longer--they don't need to be, um, you know--I don't need to be with them 24/7 kind of, kind of thing, and, and, and the mom role can kind of roll back a little bit and give them the independence they need. I could certainly see, you know, going back into the pulpit. That would mean leaving the community here. So never say never; you don't know where--the--where the world or where life may take you. Uh, I never dreamed I'd be sitting here talking to you all in Lexington, Kentucky, still, so--with two kids and a husband--so there you go. Um, but, um, here in the community, I'm, I'm able, again, to just kind of, um, be Mom and, and, again, have my rabbi hat on when I can and want to, 01:11:00whether it's doing, uh, education thing. I've been asked to do it for social workers last--you know, not so long ago, uh, to speak as a chaplain and rabbi from the Jewish perspective, or whether it's the federation work.

Um, you know, I, I, um, I mentioned doing music with the kids, just kind of, you know, volunteering in the sense that I get to be with the kids on Sunday morning. And next year Jonah's going to be formally in the Sunday morning program, so we'll be dropping him off every day; I might as well come in and help if I can. So I think any kind of, you know, volunteering, trying to continue to use my skills, whether it's, um, to the extent that I can. I, I, I think as the kids get older, if we're still here, certainly that would be--I would be taking on the same role as other parents with growing kids that, you know, you're--you have different time commitments and different engagements. I'm--we're there most Sabbaths, but I don't generally lead a service, 01:12:00and I don't generally read from the Torah unless it's a special occasion or I'm asked to do something special, whereas any other time--you know, nine years ago, I did all that every day; every, every Saturday I was busy with that. So I'm--you know, now, I'm, I'm, I'm one in the pew. I'm sitting in the pew and I'm enjoying chasing the kids up and down, and, um, you know, I think as they get a little bit older and less chasing goes on, then I'll, I'll start pulling back into how I can contribute more, and, and feeding my own religious desires in terms of, like, maybe reading a Torah reading or, um, helping with, you know, teaching a class--whatever it can be that time will allow and that the community, you know, wants. Um, um, you know, there's things I've turned down recently because it's just not the right time for me, and I'm, you know, keeping my head above water like the rest of us, um, in terms of time commitments. But, um--but I, I foresee that, you know, as--if, if--as the kids get older and time allows, then I can kind of ease back into that.

I love education. I would love to see more adult education here in the city, and I think as my role in federation, I can help to try and build a little bit of that, you know, to do some more adult education. Um, it's, uh, I think it's a great opportunity for us here, and we've got a great--UK has a great Jewish studies program to kind of click into as well. Um, so I--I could see, you know, eventually, whether that's a professional or a volunteer type of thing, that I would want to be something involved with that if I, if I could, whether it's building it myself or helping with others to make it happen. So, you know, I think there's a lot of opportunities in this community to, um, be a leader without having to be the leader of an institution, if you will. Um, and, and I think we--that's one of the hallmarks of Judaism, is you don't have to have a title in front of your name to be involved. You don't have to have "rabbi" in front to be--you know, to lead a service. You don't have to have the 01:14:00title of cantor to sing, to sing, you know, from the, from the bimah, from the, um--you know, from the platform there that you're, you're leading. So, you know, I think that's, that's important, and we kind of forget that sometimes. And, and, um, um, you know, hopefully I can kind of get back into that a little bit myself as the kids, again, get older.

THOMPSON: Um, now we are going to transition into some questions revolving around your Jewish family life and experiences. So just to backtrack a little bit--

SHARON: --um-hm--

THOMPSON: --what was it like dating as a young Jewish adult--(laughs)--during your teenage years, or young c--or young college life, and did you only date Jews, and if so, why or why not?

SHARON: Well, that's presuming I dated. --(laughter)-- That's a big presumption! --(laughs)-- I was not a big dater--(laughs)--and I think part of it was because I didn't feel comfortable in my own skin, and, I, you know, I was struggling with my--Jewishly, I wasn't sure how I felt about dating somebody who 01:15:00wasn't Jewish. I think back then, even as a teenager, it wasn't comfortable for me. I felt like I--that wasn't the right thing. I, I had a great social group, by the way; it's not like I didn't--sat at home and did nothing--(Thompson laughs)--but I--you know, the "You want to go out on a Saturday night?" didn't really happen too much for me, honestly. Um, maybe I was a late bloomer, too, in that--in that regard. I'll admit that. Um, but I think a lot of it was, um, was comfort, and that's why experiences like camp were so important, like the Jewish summer camp. You know, again, even if I wasn't, quote, "dating," I didn't have a boyfriend at camp--

THOMPSON: --um-hm--

SHARON: --I, you know, had friends. And that was part of my social ind--identity, and part of my growth as a young woman, you know. Um, so, you know, it was--came when you wanted--I don't know how much I really wanted to go to the prom, but everybody went to the high school prom, so, you know, yes, I found a friend to go to the high school prom, and, and, that was fine. And, uh, you know, it was-- I think dating is very different today than it was 01:16:00then. There it was, you know, boyfriend-girlfriend, you're--uh, I think here it's now people are more in groups. You know, back then you had to have a date to the prom; now, it's like, "Oh, are you going?" "Yeah, we're all gonna go, and we're all gonna go--" It's different, I think. And I think that's healthy, to be honest with you. Without the pressure of having to have, quote, "dates," and having to have that social connection and the awkwardness, and, you know, to be pushed into relationships that you're not ready for.

So I--so literally, what date--(laughs)--what dating did I do? I did not do a lot in high school at all. I really didn't do any at all. Um, college, I--you know, I dated a little bit, but nothing, obviously, that stuck. Um, so--but I had a great group of friends and a great social life. So I wasn't lacking; I didn't feel like--that I lacked.

Rabbinical school, as I moved forward, that was--you know, I was hoping that I might meet him, whoever "he" is, um, at some point before I got done with school at--you know, at twenty-eight, and that didn't happen. And that was 01:17:00kind of disappointing, but, you know, the, the program was such that it was very demanding. It was a very demanding academic program, and, you know, I--I firmly believe you kind of--you got to work at it. Definitely the dating thing, you have to work at. Um, for--and I worked at it hard, probably a little late in life, but, um, but, uh, it just didn't happen for me in rabbinical school. Again, I was focused on academics, I was focused on what I needed to do, and I just didn't meet anybody that I connected with. And I'll be honest with you, I think part of that was culture. Um, when I did my three years in New York, there were a lot of people who were East Coasters, you know, people from the East Coast, and I was culturally very different from them. I really was. It sounds silly, but, "Well, you're all Jewish. You're all ra--gonna be rabbis," but very, very different. Um, I, I was more--(laughs)--I was actually more introverted. Kind of ironic that I would spend my life in front of people, uh, talking and teaching and giving sermons and all that kind of stuff. But, um, I 01:18:00was really an introvert as a young kid. I really was not comfortable in my own skin. So, um, I think even in rabbinical school when I was meeting people, again, it was very, um--it, it was, um--you know, part of it again was just the culture. You know, the people. They just--we just didn't click. I just didn't--you know, they, they would look at me like I was foreign. "You came from Tennessee? Who lives in Tennessee? What Jews are in Tennessee? --(Thompson laughs)-- No Jews live in Tennessee." "Yes, there are a lot of Jews that live in Tennessee. We're, we're there,"--Thompson laughs--"you know." And, uh, you know, that right there would be, okay, you're not for me if you can't have a worldview that's beyond where you're at. So I, I met a lot of people like that, and I think that that was part of my, um, lack of, of connection, um, was a cultural difference too.

Um, when I got here, I came here in particular also recognizing that Cincinnati was an hour and a half away, and I thought, Oh, well at least I have Cincinnati. I'll find some Jewish community, and Cincinnati's bigger; I'll be 01:19:00able to find some dating, you know. Again, 'cause--especially now as--at this point in my life, dating somebody who was not Jewish was not an option. And I don't think it ever was for me. And it wasn't pressure from my parents, by the way; it really was just my own identity and was what my comfort level was. And again, growing up in Tennessee where people are very different, um, you connect on certain levels, and that was a level I never connected with anybody. So, um, since Judaism was so important, and my life was wrapped around the synagogue even as a, a teenager, um, I just never saw bringing, you know, somebody with me to the synagogue on Saturday. It just wasn't--it was just too foreign for me.

So, you know, that, that dating pool--and at the time I think there were five of us that were all in the same, like, tenth, eleventh, twelfth grade. You know, we were all--it was a small peer group, very small peer group. That tends to be the case when I was rabbi here, by the way. The kids were--we were like brothers and sisters to each other. You really weren't dating the person sitting next to you, you know--(Thompson laughs)--'cause there's only ten of you in the 01:20:00class, or eight of you in a class, and, you know, you grew up with them. So, um, you know, I'll give the example, as silly as it is. Um, Rabbi Smolkin's and Talia's little one is Ashira (??), and she's nine months older than Jonah, and they're in the same classes together, and they're like little--you know, at one point they're peas in a pod, at one point they're brother and sister fighting each other, um, they get along, they don't get along, they're--you know. --(laughter)--That's, I assume, if we're all here together as they grow, they're going to be like, you know, like that. That's the--I, I don't perce--you know, everyone jokes about, "Oh, they'll be together." No, you know, they're probably going to be like brother and sister and hating each other one minute and loving each other the next. So, um, you know, that's how I think in a smaller Jewish community, that's one of the downfalls, definitely, is a pitfall, is you don't have a base of peers that you can look to. And I didn't have that, and I think that was definitely a piece for me of why I ended up coming here not having been married yet, or dating, and, um, my struggles to--for social life. My 01:21:00cha--my whole change, leaving the synagogue, was for social life, was for hopefully finding a spouse. And if I--you know, and having kids. So, you know, I, I struggled.

Um, again, I, I did the online thing, as funny as that was. That was very, very--at least I could do that in my own house, you know, without people looking at me--(laughter)--'cause they didn't know that. Until you--you know, you look and you see who else in the community is also listed on--(Thompson laughs)--online, you know, and you go, Oh. Uh, well, I think I better stay offline 'cause, you know, this person's going to wonder. They know me--(laughter)--from being rabbi. So, um, had a few of those. Um, I also, by the way, in terms of the dating scene, I had a few where it was online and I had someone, "Oh, I see you're a rabbi." 'Cause I wasn't gonna be--I, I was honest about it. I did not want to lie about what I did and who I was at the time. So, um, I, I remember someone, "Oh, I see you're a rabbi," and they started launching into wanting counseling, basically. So I've had plenty of 01:22:00stories. --(laughter)-- I could write a book on plenty of stories about the dating scene, particularly the Internet dating scene. --(laughter)-- I could give you some really fun ones, um, you know, that, that--(laughs)--I experienced. I tend to look at them now with, with humor. I don't know if I did that at the time. --(Thompson laughs)-- Probably more frustration at the time, but now I can look at them with humor.

Um, and, uh, the irony is just as I finished my CPE--again, my year off--and, um, had gotten back on a free weekend for eHarmony, that's when I got my first note from Jeffrey, who I married. Um--(laughs)--and, um, and he was not a big dater either, ironically. He's a year younger than I am, so we were peers in terms of our age, and, um, you know, it was a good fit for, for both of us. Um, my regret is that it was so late in life, because, um, I think we both want--wanted, you know, make sure we had kids if we could, and have a family. And, um, I'm very lucky to be, um, almost forty-eight and have a 01:23:00two-year-old, you know, almost two-year-old, you know. I mean, to have a, a child at, you know, forty-four and at forty-six, um, naturally, is, is a--beyond a gift, in my mind. Um, there's a lot of luck in there too, and a gift, you know. So, um, I will never look a gift horse in the mouth. It's--I, I--I know adoption is always an option. Um, we never dreamed we'd be able to biologically have kids, just because of our ages. So, you know, finding him. It also, um, forced our timeline a little bit. You know, it's like, Well, most people, you'd like to be married for a little longer than a, you know, year or two before you end up having kids, but--if you can--but--I recommend that, but, um, so you get to know each other better and get established. We didn't have a lot of time if, if we wanted to--whether it was adoption, or, you know, biological. We, we--you know, at our age, in our forties, um, even adoptions aren't, aren't necessarily easy when you're getting older. Um, you know, people tend to look at 01:24:00that and say, "Well, we want a younger parent because we don't want an older parent," 'cause what's gonna happen when that--you know, you're sixty-five and your, your children are, um, you know, trying to get to college or whatever it is. It's, it's, it's--tends to be, um, not necessarily a positive. Although I think it can be, being more experienced, it's often not a bad thing. But, um, so it, it definitely--the last five and a half years have been very busy--(laughter)--in terms of getting married and, um, you know, having two kids, and trying to accelerate--all the dating things I didn't do in my twenties and thirties, I did in five years, you know--(laughter)--or six years. We did. So, um, that's not the way I really would have liked it to be, but it is what it is, and I'm--I--I'm relishing every day of it, and I'm, um--wouldn't change it for the world, honestly.

THOMPSON: Can you describe your experiences raising a Jewish family 01:25:00here in Lexington?

SHARON: Hmm. Um. Well, it's--you know it--when it used to be just me, it was easy to go to the store and buy whatever I wanted and eat whatever I wanted. Now, you know, I have a husband who loves--like, I was almost vegetarian at the, the point that I was by myself, so now I've got somebody who loves meat, you know--(laughter)--I'm like, "Okay, I guess we're having hamburgers tonight," "I got to go home and make meatloaf for Shabbat dinner," you know, um. That--even just those practical things have certainly changed my view. Um, when I'm by myself, I--there were many Sabbaths that I didn't do anything. I, I--

THOMPSON: --um-hm--

SHARON: --put a frozen meal in the oven and timed it and ran off to the synagogue to run the service and then, you know, got home, and--(sighs)--you know, and that was my Sabbath night, that was my evening. Now it's, you know, I'm raising a Jewish family. I'm part of a Jewish family. And I'm--you know, we're gonna get--one of my missions has been, "I'm gonna get Shabbat dinner, I'm gonna get Sabbath dinner on that table on Friday nights if I can."

THOMPSON: Um-hm.

SHARON: I mean, there's no excuse not to. Somehow I'm gonna do it. Um, and so, you know, it's, it's planning ahead, and it's figuring out, where's the food gonna come from, and can I get to Trader Joe's to get the kosher meat that I need in order to make the meatloaf that I'm gonna make tonight, or do I have to find something else to make? Um, uh, you know, so raising--I think there's challenges, 'cause of, again, keeping kosher. There's certain--there's limitations of what we eat and what we don't eat. And I would guess that as the kids get older, that's gonna become an issue, 'cause they'll go to--like I did--they'll go to friend's house, and the friend doesn't recognize that they're--you know, they keep kosher, and they don't eat everything that all their friends eat, and, you know, they may be serving them, I don't know--I remember--I had this experience as a teenager--a pork sandwich. I didn't know at the time it was a pork sandwich. I ate non-kosher meat, but I had never ate pork. And so here's, you know, someone, "Oh, we're having sloppy joes," and I realize after I took the first few bites, "Hey, isn't this good? It's great pork, isn't it?" and I'm like "Uhh!" you know, as a--I don't know, I 01:27:00must have been fourteen or something. I don't know, I was a teenager. So those are challenges I know that are going to come if we're in this environment and our kids get older. Um, I expect also the challenges of Sabbath. You know, there's lots of activities that go on on--there's soccer and, you know, baseball and all the fun things that kids, little kids especially, want to be involved with, and we're gonna have to figure out how we do that. I've seen lots of models on how that's worked. I've--I grew up watching some of those, um, in my Tennessee days, as I--I did with my rabbi and his wife, how they--you know, they would bike to the swim meet--(Thompson laughs)--you know, 'cause they could, and 'cause they wouldn't ride on the Sabbath, and we generally don't ride on the Sabbath; if we can avoid the car, we do. Um, so I think those challenges of ritual challenges, those observance challenges are gonna really--right now they're easy. Um, you know, "No, Jonah, we're not driving in the car to the synagogue today." We're right around the corner; we walk; it's no big deal. Um, but, but those challenges are gonna come. I'm not sure--we're gonna 01:28:00have to take them as they come. But if you ask me that in ten years from now--(Thompson laughs)--I'm sure I would have a lot to tell you. --(laughter)-- Um, but I suspect that's gonna be difficult. And, and, um, you know, already, even, even as young as Jonah, our, our, our, you know, almost-four-year-old is, he, he comes up with things and, you know, we've got to say, "Well." He was talking about pepperoni pizza the other day. "Well, we don't eat pepperoni. We don't eat pork and we don't--on our pizza." And I was trying to explain to him, you know, from his basic four-year-old level, how--not even four--how do I explain to him why we don't--what pepperoni is and that we're not eating it? Um, so I--you know, in little increments--(laughs)--I'm getting, I'm getting a little bit of that challenge of raising a Jewish family here.

Um, but, um--for instance, we've made the commitment to try to stay where we're at, in the house that we're at, um, either to either stay in the neighborhood or to remodel our house so we don't have to move away from the synagogue, because even though I'm not there anymore as the leader, it's still the focal point of our experience. Our kids go to the preschool there, we're right 01:29:00around the corner. We're right down--we're a five-minute, seven-minute walk from there. Um, you know, the kids are going to start going to Sunday school soon, so to be able to walk them to Sunday school on a nice Sunday morning. Um, you know, Saturday on the Sabbath, that we can--still can maintain that ability to walk. If we had to drive, it would change our entire lifestyle. I mean, we wouldn't have our Sabbath walk anymore; it would--it would change things. And so we've--we're struggling with those commitments on how do we raise our family and how do we do for ourselves, and what's important and what's not. And right now, I think being where we're at, located, which is the house that I moved into when I first got here, um--it's a little small for our larger family now--but, um, you know, the commitment of trying to stay where we're at is an important piece of, you know, raising that family Jewishly in our community, because to me it's part of our lifestyle. And if we change it--even the location of where we live changes our entire lifestyle. So those are choices we're gonna have to continue to, to make, and, and see where they go. Um, again, I, I suspect 01:30:00they're going to be hard. --(laughter)--

I think we're--we have two precocious little boys who are going to, you know, want to be busy and get involved with things, and, um--I, I didn't have that pressure as a kid. I put it on myself, if there was something I didn't want to do, like, on the Sabbath or holidays. Uh, I think--I think we're gonna endure what all the kids that I worked with as a rabbi certainly endured, and as I did as a kid myself, of, you know, it's the Jewish holidays, school is still going on, we're not gonna--kid's not gonna be there. You know, well, can they make up the homework, or can they--you know, all the struggles that we, we--that I had that, that kids have if they're trying to live a, a committed, observant Jewish life, and, you know, have the barriers that they have in terms of, um, being able to be comfortable in, in practice. So, uh, you know, it, it--part of it's just simple things like food, and part of it is really a whole lifestyle on how we contin--continue to maintain our Jewish lifestyle, um, in, in where we're at.

THOMPSON: What type of Jewish activities and organizations are you 01:31:00and your family involved with?

SHARON: Type of Jewish activities and organizations? Well, we're members of the congregation, certainly. Um, and again, I don't know how, um--we have a precedent for that because, by the way, Rabbi Smith, who was--Rabbi Uri Smith, who served the OZS for just a couple of years, actually, remained in the community. He's been here all along. So he's kind of there too. So, um, we joke about how we can both walk--all of us walk in and there's three rabbis in the congregation--(Thompson laughs)--at any one time. By the way, we used to have another female rabbi who was here for a couple of years, so there were actually like six rabbis in the community here, and two of us were women. Which was like an amazing, uh, amazing thing. Um, so we're part of the congregation. Um, you know, we're, um--we're, uh--I mean, I have my federation work, so that certainly--if I wasn't going to the things that are going on in the Jewish community, the events or activities that are going on as a private person--you know, I mean, if I wasn't doing that as an employee or as a, you 01:32:00know, somebody who's helping to put some of those things together, then I would guess that I would be doing some of those as well.

Um, so, you know, again, our, our, our focus is the Jewish community as it is right now, and, um, we're kind of involved as best we can be and as best we want to be. What's nice, again, not being the rabbi of the congregation is if we don't feel like getting to kids' Shabbat or, you know, the kids really aren't feeling well, or, you know, we really want a Friday night at home and that's what's best, then, you know, we're going to stay at home. Or a Satur--like, I'll give you an example. Saturday morning--(laughs)--a couple, few, few weeks ago, we were just burned-out tired, like everybody, and I understand it 'cause as a rabbi, you know, I used to go, "Boy, this person hasn't been here for weeks. Where are they?" "Oh, I was tired, I was, you know, I was busy, I was out of town, you know, I've been"--um, I get it, because I--I'm on the other side of it now. We're exhausted, and, you know, the kids were kind of wired, and it's like, I don't think we want to go to the synagogue today and chase them up 01:33:00and down the pews. And we were tired. So we stayed home. It was a beautiful afternoon out. We went out in the backyard, and we had a Shabbat picnic. We just had lunch outside, you know, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches outside and--on the grass, and in our backyard. And that was just such like a wonderful thing, you know, memory-making that the kids can hopefully remember, and I hope we'll continue to do it. There will probably be other times where we make a conscious choice not to be involved, you know, that day, and, um, you know, as a, as a, um, not as the rabbi, but as a member of the community, I can make those choices, and I'd never been able to make those choices before as the leader; now I can kind of make those choices and, and do what's best for my family. So we're--you know, again, as the kids get older and they start going to religious school, I'm sure we will be even more at things that, that the kids are generally at--holiday parties, you know, the Hanukkah party or the Purim this or--we're there already, but I, I would suspect that more of those 01:34:00things will pull us in as well.

THOMPSON: Um, what leadership roles do you have now currently, if you have any, and what are the responsibilities associated with each?

SHARON: Hmm.

THOMPSON: Other than your professional career.

SHARON: Yeah. Um, I, I think probably the professional career right now is just keeping focus. Um, you know, I mentioned the music, which is just kind of a volunteer type of thing, which I enjoy doing. Um, you know, the only--the only thing that has come up, there's, again, been a few things where I, I kind of--I'm not even sure which hat I have on. I might have the chaplain hat on, I--'cause it came through the chaplain route, or--like I did a panel, again, for social workers, so that was kind of like a leadership role that, you know, was a volunteer, had nothing to do with any of my jobs, but, um, somehow I was kind of approached to do that. Um, you know, I think, uh, um, it--depending on how work and schedule works and all, you know, there's certain things that I think I could see myself doing in a leadership role that's nonpaid, nonprofessional. Um, I --you know, whether it's helping out with the program as the, as 01:35:00the, um, as a, as an educator or expertise in something. You know, Hadassah is putting together an end-of-life program I think in May, and I said, "Sure, I'm happy to help with that," and that has really nothing to do with eith--any paid role that I'm doing in the, in the community. That's just me with my rabbi hat on saying, this--you know, my chaplain hat on. This is what I've done. I, I know--I know this stuff, so am happy to help. So I think those things, you know, um, will continue to, um, grow a little bit more as the kids get, you know, older and I don't have as much with them at home. I mean, right now I have the two-year-old at home for--less than two, one-and-a-half-year-old at home who's, you know, um, only in school three days a week, and so, you know, my priority is, is him, and when I'm home. So.

THOMPSON: Have you seen any changes in the Jewish community in Lexington or Kentucky in your time here?

SHARON: Hmm. That's a great question! Um, well, I certainly have 01:36:00seen--again, I mentioned earlier the population explosion of little ones, and, like, we're part of that, I know, um, but we're also out of the norm in terms of our age--(laughs)--doing that. But um--'cause with that has been a growth in the twenties- and thirty-somethings who've come back to town. Um, I don't remember that being much of when I was, first got here. Um, I think it's become, um, more than it certainly was when I first got here of kids moving--you know, "kids," parents were here and twenties- or thirty-somethings moving back to town. Uh, I can think of several examples of people either I've heard that have moved back to town or that I know have moved back to town and are having their own kids. Um, so I think there's a growth that way, and I think that, that it bodes well for our, um, Jewish population that we've got. I mean, there are again, Joshua's year, um, just a coup--couple of years ago, almost, there was, uh, I 01:37:00think ten births just at the synagogue that I know about. Um, to have ten little, you know, eighteen-month, two-and-a-half-year-old--eighteen months to two-and-a-half-year-olds running around, you know, two- to three-year-olds running around, is a lot for this community; we didn't have that.

So I think that's, that's a--but I will also mention that it's very cyc--circ--um, cyclical. It's very, um--when I first got here, we had--we did have a pretty good cadre of, of young families, and UK--I hate to blame it on UK--but we had a point where UK was--kind of had a hiring freeze and was not increasing pay, they were cutting back, and we had several fantastic families go, "We got to--you know, I got a professorship in another city, at another school that's a better--more money, and it's best for my career, and I gotta go." And they hated leaving here. Um, you know, we've had several families I can think about that had to do that in a short period of time. I can think of three families off the top of my head in one year that--and took 01:38:00five, six kids--six kids with them. You know. So when you take that small--when you have a small base and that happens, um, it's gonna--you're gonna have a kind of a down time in terms of growth. Um.

I think now, I, I see that explosion of younger families, new people moving in. I think it's--it--the economy is getting better; I think that's helping with movement of people moving around a bit and being able to take opportunities for new jobs here. Uh, certainly Lexington has grown. Um, I mean even just looking in the sixteen years I've been here, sixteen and a half years, just looking at what's grown, you know, outside of New Circle and south of Man o' War and, uh, you know, new families moving out in that area, um, outside the circle. I think, uh--I mean, UK has been doing well in terms of, of adding faculty, so there's been lots of new people coming in. Um, so I think that, that's 01:39:00changed the dynamics a lot. When I--honestly, when I walk into the synagogue, I know--I mean, I'm getting to know more people as I'm busy with my kids doing programs, but as--when I walk in, someone will say, "Who is that?" I'm like, "I don't know. I don't know who"--"You don't know who they are?" I'm like, "I don't know. They came after I left--(Thompson laughs)--I don't have a clue who they are." So there's a lot of new families. I credit Rabbi Smolkin for helping to bring those in, and I, you know, credit the city and the economics that, that have brought people here, and people who want to connect, which is fantastic, and I think it's our job, as Jewish leaders, um, certainly it's Rabbi Smolkin's job at the synagogue, Rabbi Wirtschafter's job at the temple, to kind of grab people when you can and bring them in, and, and have them be a part of our community in whatever way they can be. Um, there's als--obviously lots of Jewish community, um, groups here that are, you know, beyond the two congregations, um, and, you know, to be able to kind of, um, find who these people are. Sometimes they don't want to be found, but you find them. And, and, and that's 01:40:00okay. They're happy to be connected once they're found, sometimes, and sometimes it's people knocking on the door going, "I'm here! Can you put me to work?" --(laughter)-- Those are the best.

Um, so, you know, we're, we're--I think that's--it bodes well for the community that we've got so many new people. I think it can be scary for the old guard, like, 'cause people sit there and go, "I don't know who that is. Do you know who that is?" "I don't know who that is." "Well, who--does she know who that is?" "Oh, well, I think their name is," you know. You hear a lot of the people who have been here for twenty, thirty, forty years, um, people that I worked with a lot, people who were the leadership when I came, um, that are, you know, retired off the board, that, you know, whose kids are long gone. They're no lon--and they were here; they were part of those thirteen, fourteen, those teenage kids, you know, that now have gone and are in their mid- to late twenty-somethings and they're living, you know, elsewhere, and these are their parents, and they, they are involved still, but they're, um, they're realizing that, you know, these new people coming in are where they were twenty years ago. So, um, it's 01:41:00exciting, and, um, I think--again, I'm sure it will be cyclical, and things go up and down. Um, there aren't as many teenagers as, again, there were when, when I was here, but we didn't have the young kids that, that, that are now. And I think that, um, it bodes well for our future.

Um, it also po--poses its challenges, because the younger your families are, the less--generally the less money there is to help pay for the synagogue services, to help pay for the community things. Um, you know, those of us with young kids, you know, whether it's college--your parents are probably paying you college, you know, tuitions and helping with that kind of thing. Well, that period of time of life is, is challenging. You don't--your funds aren't as easily spent, um, and donated as they--for everybody--as they, they often are. So I think that poses a challenge for Jewish communi--community institutions here and abr-- and everywhere, but here in particular, because, again, we have 01:42:00younger families that can't necessarily contribute monetarily as much as, um, they would like, I'm sure, as much--I know that were in that case. Um, you know, I would love to be able to win the lottery and give--(Thompson laughs)--as much as I could, but, um, we don't have the funding either. You know, we're paying for preschool and we're paying for, for a mortgage and life insu--you know, health insurance and all the things everyone pays. And, um, you know, our salaries help to make that--ends meet, but, um, that, I think, tends to be, um, the course for people who are a little bit younger, with younger kids, as opposed to those who have already gone through that, tend to have a nest egg, tend to have in--you know, money they can contribute a little bit more. And that, that affects the community, which means we have to find ways in our Jewish community, and then in general in Lexington, too, um, find ways to pay for what we want to do. You know, um. And I think, um, there are a lot of creative people out there, both the Jewish community and non-Jewish community, who are, you know, finding ways to do that. So it's, it's s--you know, doing 01:43:00things on a shoestring or doing things on a budget, um, but also, um, involving people as much as you can. And not worrying about the money is important as well.

THOMPSON: Um, do you have anything else you'd like to add for the record?

SHARON: "For the record."

THOMPSON: Or do you have any questions?

MORRIS: Um, I've got one. I know you referenced talking about the interfaith experiences you've had. Is there anything else you'd like to share about that?

SHARON: Sure. Um, hm. Was there something in particular you were thinking about?

MORRIS: Um, just anything, like, any of the experiences you were talking about earlier. Anything you want to, like, expand upon?

SHARON: Um, I think, I think as good as it was for me to be there, it was probably--um, for me to help, um, educate, I think I learned a tremendous amount when I did my VA work. Um, the, the clinical pastoral education 01:44:00program is an interfaith program, really, and, and, um, speaking to that, I, I recognized when I was in that program that, um, believe it or not, there is--(laughs)--I mean, it's not "believe it or not," it's not hard to believe, that there are different ways of learning and that there's a very cultural base to our learning. And I'll give you the example. Um, Jewish tradition tends to, um, base our, our, our learning on questions. Right? We have the Passover holidays coming up soon, and, um, the whole Passover Seder is basically, uh, about asking questions. You know, to, to fuel the discussion about the Passover experience. Um, when I was at the VA--and I come from that--I come from that vein. That's how we--when we study Talmud, when we study Jewish texts, the traditional way of doing that is across the table with a partner, in havruta, with a haver, with a friend, with a partner, and it's, "Well, what do you think about this?" "Well, I read it this way, and this"--and it's an 01:45:00engagement. There's an engagement. It, it--that's the, the mode of study. You, you tend to study with somebody so that you get that, um, that questioning, you get that challenging from each other, you get a different perspective, right? So, um, so I think asking questions is just a part of who we are as J--as Jews. It's just inherent. I've determined that it's inherent in who we are, if we grow up in a Jewish environment. Um, it's in the genes, if you will--(laughter)--it's in the DNA, I've discovered, I think.

Um, 'cause I was at the VA, and early on in my CPE training, and my supervisor, um, part of the CPE training is really doing a lot of introspection, and then also talking with your supervisor, who challenges that introspection and challenges how you answer things, how you work, how you talk, how you engage with your, um, interpersonal relations. We actually have an IPR, uh, we call it IPR, where you're around the room with your peers and you're talking 01:46:00out, "Well, I don't like how you did this," or "I"--you know, I mean, you're just laying it out there on the line, and hurt feelings can happen, but the idea is you're supposed to be completely honest, which is a hard thing for all of us to do.

So I remember talking to the supervisor, who was doing an evaluation of some kind, and, and, um, you know, he said, "You know, when you first got here, you asked an awful lot of questions. And it was--you know, I, didn't know if it was chall--you were doing it to challenge me, you know, like, negatively, or, or not." And I was like--(gasps)--. I was horrified. I was absolutely horrified, because the last thing I would ever want to do is come across as, um, disrespectful or challenging a teacher in a negative way. And then he said, "But, you know, I realized that that was just how you learn." That was like light bulbs going off--not just one, like, many, going off--(laughter)--right? Like, crash-boom--(laughter)--you know. Thunder, lightning, wow. It 01:47:00really made me think that, that in the interfaith world--like, you know, when I put one faith to another, that even the learning mode--not just the learning mode, the thinking mode, the expressing mode, is so different. And it made me think about why I felt like a fish out of water in my environment growing up and in my learning environment, you know, in high school or in coll--however, wherever I've been. Because what he was suggesting is, "That's not the way I'm used to." And my sugg--and what I was saying is, That's the only way I know how to be. You know? Part of who I am--and it comes from being Jewish. I, I'm convinced of that. It doesn't mean other religions don't have that, but that's the reason I engaged in that way, was 'cause that's how it was to engage. And it's not particular to Sharon Cohen, it's not particular to Rabbi Sharon Cohen, it's particular, I think, to our tradition. That's how we're taught. And since I went through a seminary education post--you know, post-college, went through the seminary education, I mean, that's what we did. Um, that's the 01:48:00traditional way of, of Jewish learning, is engagement. Um, and I was horrified that, that he would think that I, you know, here I was challenging him. And I realized--you know, we talked it out, and I said, "Oh, I'm--first off, I apologize if that ever crossed your mind that I was being"--and I, and I--we had a great discussion about--really about, you know, relationships in terms of our different religions. Um, he was Disciples of Christ, I think, which is a very liberal denomination in, in, um--and it's--has a very big population here in, in Lexington. Um, and, uh, you know, he--he got it, but it took him time to get it. And I gave him credit as a supervisor that he got it on his own, um, but it, it was just light bulbs flashing for me, that, that I really realized that that's a seed of, of our interfaith relations that, that can frame how we engage with one another. And I'm, um, much more conscious of it.

And I'll tell you, I think Jewishly--I mean, as a, as a chaplain--as a Jewish chaplain, but just as a chaplain trying to navigate the chaplain world, and that CPE, the clinical pastoral education, um, way of learning is trying to challenge you not to ask questions. The natural thing we have to do--again, Jewishly in particular--is asking questions: How are you? How's it going? --(Thompson laughs)-- Right? What'd you do today? How are you feeling? You know. Um, I can't walk into a patient's room, for instance--really, they taught--they wanted us not to, to just barrage questions. We hate silence, right? So if they're sitting there, I'm gonna, "So tell me about," you know. It, it, it was--just the natural way of engagement was by asking questions and engaging, right? And, and this program and this philosophy of this program, which again is somewhat Christian-based, I will, I will say, especially here, just because of the nature of who's doing the, the, the program itself, um, was, was the 01:50:00opposite. You know, the silence is important; don't fire off questions; don't ask too much.

Um, and that was really eye-opening for my interfaith work, I've realized. And that was part of the, you know, the, the, the, um, putting myself into two different places. Right? That, that, um--two different hats, which, what--I had to kind of--you know, if I'm in the Jewish environment, I can operate that naturally. If I'm not, I need to dial it back, and I need to be conscious about it, 'cause that engagement with, with my supervisor made me realize I'm not conscious of it; it's just how I am. It's just how I do, you know. It's just what we do. We, we tend to, um, engage with tho--with that, you know, question and answer or just what can sound like challenges. Um, and all it is is a mode of learning, but it's a mode of learning, I think, that is, um--that we as Jews do that's very much a part of who we are and how we engage with 01:51:00people, and it can be seen as a negative to other faiths when they're not used to that.

I'll give you the example, um, in particular, just, just as a, a--talking about interfaith things. I--this was one of them in, in, in Phoenix, during my time in Phoenix as an assistant rabbi, but it also--I had a similar experience here in Lexington when--at OZS, where I had somebody coming to me, and they were--happened to be Catholic. And they said, "You know, when we were growing, we weren't allowed to ask questions. I went to CCD [Confraternity of Christian Doctrine] classes, and--but the priest never--he didn't want us to ask; he didn't want us to challenge. We weren't allowed to--you know, we had to just kind of take it on"--and I said, "Okay, well, you know, I don't know if it was that bad. I don't--I think you were allowed to challenge and think," but their perception for them was "Don't do that," right? And ours, and Jewishly it's the opposite. The opposite is if you're not doing that, then what's wrong with you? You need to do that more. And, and their culture, in his--this 01:52:00person's religious experience was the opposite, that to stretch your neck out and challenge--even in a--even in a, um, respectful way--was not the norm; it wasn't what was encouraged. It may not have been yelled at, but it wasn't encouraged. For us--(laughs)--do it, let's go--(claps)--you know? Um, critical thinking, let's do it. So I remember, when I was talking to my supervisor, I remembered these experiences as a rabbi of people coming to me--again, it was these two people were Catholic--saying, "When I grew up, you know, Catholic tradition is very ritualized, very legalized"--so is Jewish tradition--"but we don't have the same engagement that you have, that your tradition has. Ours is more narrow. Ours is less en--less give-and-take. Ours is more--I don't want to cha--you know, no challenging." Um, you know, and, and, it, it, uh, it just shows you the differences between our, our traditions and our--and, 01:53:00and in my interfaith work, I'm very conscious of that now. That was something that I certainly learned in that CPE experience, and I'm very conscious of it now when I'm doing something that's, um, ecumenical in nature or interfaith in nature. And I try to dial it back--it's hard--but when I'm working with patients at St. Joe, um, you know, on a Wednesday or Sunday when I'm, when I'm doing my shift, I, I, I, I have to keep going back to my CPE experience and say, "Stop! Don't ask the question. Don't--you know--(Thompson laughs)--just let them go." And, and, you know, don't be as inquisitive as, as I might naturally be. Um, uh, in, in the role that I'm in. So I think that--you know, those interfaith experiences I've had and that training in particular has really, um, you know, resounded for me and has really shown me that we may be still working for all the same goals--you know, we're trying to make the world a better place--but our way of doing it, we each have our own different way of doing it, and 01:54:00our traditions, our religious traditions, each have our own way of doing it. And that's good, it's okay, it just has to be recognizing each other and making sure that we don't come across rude and inconsiderate, um, which would certainly never be what I would want. I think hopefully that answers a little bit more.MORRIS: Yeah.

THOMPSON: Um, if there's not anything else you'd like to add, I think we're done.

PATEL: Yeah.

SHARON: Okay.

PATEL: That was great.

MORRIS: Yeah, that was--

[End of interview.]