Interview with John Cipriani, August 28, 2016

Partial Transcript: [Only ambient noise until 00:00:32 during demonstration of cannon firing.]

This is an unrehearsed oral history interview for the Living History Oral History Project. My name is JD Carruthers.

Segment Synopsis: John Cipriani introduces his portrayal as an 18th century Spanish artillery officer at Castillo de San Marcos. He says the interview is taking place in one of the casements that was added to the Castillo between 1738 and 1756 to enhance the defense of the fort. He describes the use of casement for military stores and quarters. He confirms that the time period portrayed coincides with the British attack on Florida in the mid 18th century. He says he portrays six different time periods including the exploration of Ponce de Leon, the founding of St. Augustine by Aviles, the Oglethorpe attack in 1740, and others ranging as late as the American Civil War. He describes an activity for children where he enlists them as volunteers in the Spanish army, and then pays them a replica gold doubloon after placing a wax seal on the document. He says that he became interested in living history as a hobby when he attended a cannon school living history event. He says from this early hobby interest he expanded to other time periods.

Keywords: Cannon schools; Casements; Conscription; Don Pedro Menéndez de Avilés; First person voice; Florida; Georgia; Gulf Stream; Hobbies; Hobby; Living historians; Muskets; Mustering officers; Periodization; Personas; Ponce de Leon; Puerto Rican militia; South Carolina; Tories; USS Wasbash; Uniforms; Wax seals

Subjects: Castillo de San Marcos (Saint Augustine, Fla.); Castillo de San Marcos National Monument (Saint Augustine, Fla.); Civil war.; Fort Matanzas (Fla. : Fort); Fort Matanzas National Monument (Fla.); Saint Augustine (Fla.); Saint Augustine (Fla.)--History.; United States. National Park Service.

Partial Transcript: Now, I was interested in the--one of the main--one of my, uh, main areas of concern--one of my research, uh, inquiries is the diversity of living history and the, the cultural piece here...

Segment Synopsis: Cipriani gives examples of cannon firing commands in Castilian Spanish beginning with a prayer to Santa Barbara. He explains that Santa Barbara is the patron saint of artillerymen, and he relates the story of her martyrdom. He says the prayer was intended to ensure the cannon shot was safe for the crew. He provides several other secular firing drill commands. He admits that his Spanish is limited, but that there are two other living history interpreters at Castillo de San Marcos who are native Spanish speakers. He says that the Castillo has numerous Spanish speaking visitors, and they are thrilled to hear the commands in their language. He states the opinion that living history is not as common in Spain and Spanish speaking regions. He talks about the research he does to support living history interpretation, most of which is done locally. He says the main sources are the St. Augustine Historical Society and the Castillo archive located in Jacksonville, Florida. He says Orlando Ramirez and he often work together as a team conducting research, and that Orlando can translate old Spanish since he is a native speaker.

Keywords: Artillery; Cannoneers; Drill; Gunpowder; Libraries; Living history; Living history events; Maps; Original sources; Puerto Rico; Ram rod; Research; Safety; Saint Augustine Historical Society; Santa Barbara; Sebastian Lopez de Toledo; Spanish; St. Barbara

Subjects: Castillo de San Marcos (Saint Augustine, Fla.); Castillo de San Marcos National Monument (Saint Augustine, Fla.); Saint Augustine (Fla.); Saint Augustine (Fla.)--History.; United States. National Park Service.

Partial Transcript: Um, and the other, uh--another important critical piece to this is the--what we would call material culture, the artifacts.

Segment Synopsis: Cipriani describes the elements of his Spanish officer's uniform including materials, pieces like shirt, coat, socks and shoes, and trimmings. He describes how certain features would distinguish him as an officer, including white socks instead of red. He talks about soldiers being issued straight shoes that were not fitted for left and right, and that soldiers were ordered to switch them every day for even wear. He adds that soldiers would wear the shoes after soaking them to get the leather to conform to left and right, and then they would add iron plates to ensure even wear and pass the sergeant's inspection. Cipriani talks about how his living history interpretation expanded over time, and how his German seamstress helped expand his living history wardrobe. He discusses the arrival of USS Wabash to occupy or liberate St. Augustine during the Civil War. He says that during the Civil War, the Castillo was named Fort Marion after Francis Marion, the Swamp Fox. He talks about the acquisition of material culture, noting that his cutlass even has the inscription "Ames" for Ames Manufacturing. He talks about his rangers' green small coat, and he notes that British officer Banastre Tarleton also wore green. He talks about Tarleton's exploits in the American War of Independence. He talks about his gorget, which was last a vestige of armor, and indicates he is an officer.

Keywords: Artifacts; Attire; Banastre Tarleton; Cutlass; Fort Marion; Gorget; Officers; Periodization; USS Wabash; Uniforms; Weapons

Subjects: Castillo de San Marcos (Saint Augustine, Fla.); Castillo de San Marcos National Monument (Saint Augustine, Fla.); Saint Augustine (Fla.); Saint Augustine (Fla.)--History.; United States. National Park Service.

Partial Transcript: You've mentioned that you, you do work here at the Castillo de San Marcos. Where else do you do, uh, living history presentations?

Segment Synopsis: Cipriani talks about other historical sites where he does living history presentations. He discusses Fort Mose, which was a settlement of escaped slaves from British colonies to the north. Cipriani talks about how as a living history interpreter he addresses the cultural complexities involved in the conflict between a Spanish speaking garrison at war with Britain and eventually becoming the United States. He describes a "saunter" which is a public appearance in period attire. He says on a recent saunter, he was photographed with an African American girl, and when the photo appeared in the local paper it prompted a letter to the editor critical of Spanish occupation. He says the living history volunteers composed a rebuttal letter explaining the nuances of Spanish occupation of Florida.

Keywords: "Saunters"; Authenticity; Biased attitudes; Fort Mose; Fort Picolata; Fort San Diego; Fort San Francisco de Pupo; Slavery; Spanish Florida

Subjects: Castillo de San Marcos (Saint Augustine, Fla.); Castillo de San Marcos National Monument (Saint Augustine, Fla.); Saint Augustine (Fla.); Saint Augustine (Fla.)--History.; United States. National Park Service.

Partial Transcript: With regard to the method you ta--go about and, and, doing your interpretation uh, living history as I've experienced, and I've observed, there's a lot of focus on, like an educational piece, especially at the primary and secondary or public education, uh, levels...

Segment Synopsis: Cipriani talks about accompanying a former ranger to do a living history presentation at a community college and recognizing a former colleague he had trained to fire a cannon in the audience. He talks about the educational value of his interpretive program enlisting children in the Spanish army, which includes history and also other lessons. He says the child is told about King Philip before signing the document with a quill and ink. He describes how he seals the enlistment with a wax seal and the child is given a replica doubloon. He says the short program includes lessons in history, handwriting practice with a quill and ink, understanding heating and cooling wax, and accounting of money. He adds that the parents are engaged in the experience as well. He describes the material culture he uses for the program and shows off a glass pen for writing with ink. He talks about the artifacts recovered from the site by local archaeologists. He talks about the types of artifacts that survived the harsh salt environment over two and a half centuries.

Keywords: Archaeologists; Archaeology; Artifacts; Conscription; Cursive; Experiential learning; Glass pens; Gold doubloons; Higher education; King Philip V; Pen and ink; Quills; Saint John's River; State College; Wax seals

Subjects: Castillo de San Marcos (Saint Augustine, Fla.); Castillo de San Marcos National Monument (Saint Augustine, Fla.); Saint Augustine (Fla.); Saint Augustine (Fla.)--History.; United States. National Park Service.

Partial Transcript: I'm interested in, uh, finding out about the cross cultural piece.

Segment Synopsis: Cipriani talks about the attraction of Spanish visitors to the cultural features of living history presentations at Castillo de San Marcos. He talks about a cold night he spent in the Castillo which gave him the sensation of being carried back in time. He says that there were no ghosts in spite of the many ghost stories promoted. He says that Native Americans occasionally visit the Castillo to perform rituals to honor their ancestors who had been imprisoned in the fort. He relates a visit by an Apache who had a reaction to some of the historic graffiti in one of the casements that matched a similar mark on a rock near her home. Cipriani says the woman was convinced the mark was made by her relative while in prison. He talks about the history of Native Americans imprisoned in the Castillo in order to separate leaders from their people. He talks about the various types of historical graffiti in the Castillo.

Keywords: Casements; Chapel; Chiricahua Apaches; Cultural identity; Cultural tourism; Fort Marion; Fort Moultrie; Graffiti; Living history events; Native Americans; Osceola; Park rangers; Period rush; Plains Indians; Prisoners; Saint Augustine Lighthouse; Seminole; Spanish; Warrior artists

Subjects: Castillo de San Marcos (Saint Augustine, Fla.); Castillo de San Marcos National Monument (Saint Augustine, Fla.); Saint Augustine (Fla.); Saint Augustine (Fla.)--History.; United States. National Park Service.

Partial Transcript: I, uh, don't want to keep you from your duties, uh, too much longer, but I wanted to ask one last capstone question, if I may.

Segment Synopsis: Cipriani says his favorite memory as a living history interpreter is summer camp events in which a variety of artifacts and weapons are demonstrated. He also talks about the Native American history as a favorite memory.

Keywords: Architecture; Artillery; Atlatls; Cannons; Captain Richard Henry Pratt; Carlisle Indian School; Catapults; Crossbows; Jim Thorpe; Muskets; Native Americans; Participatory history; Trebuchets; Weapons

Subjects: Castillo de San Marcos (Saint Augustine, Fla.); Castillo de San Marcos National Monument (Saint Augustine, Fla.); Fort Matanzas (Fla. : Fort); Fort Matanzas National Monument (Fla.); Saint Augustine (Fla.); Saint Augustine (Fla.)--History.; United States. National Park Service.