Interview with Judith P. Schiffbauer, May 30, 2018

Partial Transcript: Well, my name is Emily Moseley and I'm here with Judie Schiffbauer.

Segment Synopsis: This is our second interview, covering J. Schiffbauer's time in Afghanistan from 1968-1970.

Keywords: Afghanistan; Peace Corps

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.

Partial Transcript: So, after your time in the Peace Corps ended you were planning to go home, but then you ended up going home for just a brief time and coming back to Afghanistan.

Segment Synopsis: After their volunteer service in the Peace Corps in Baghlan, Afghanistan concluded, the Schiffbauers were planning to return to Pennsylvania. W. Schiffbauer was going to attend graduate school but their plans changed when he was offered a job as a Peace Corps staff member.

Keywords: Afghanistan; Graduate schools; Peace Corps; Peace Corps staff

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--Afghanistan--Biography.; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Afghanistan.

Partial Transcript: I remember something about that. I drove down with him to Washington, D.C. at one point.

Segment Synopsis: J. Schiffbauer recalls a situation at a roadside bar on the way to Washington, D.C. W. Schiffbauer left to use the restroom and she looked around the bar/restaurant and realized she was the only woman in there. Since she had been in Afghanistan she was never alone with strange men. W. Schiffbauer always accompanied her to the bazaar or elsewhere in public. She felt a little panicky and it was an unfamiliar feeling. She would even address her husband as Mr. Schiffbauer.

Keywords: Afghanistan; Bars; Roadside diners; Rockville (Md.); Rockville, Maryland; United States

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Women--Afghanistan--Social conditions.; Women--Afghanistan.; Women--United States.

Partial Transcript: What did your parents say when you told them that rather than coming home for good you were going back?

Segment Synopsis: Her parents were not distressed about the Schiffbauers going back to Afghanistan. Her parents were adventurous and traveled a lot. They had a rule about not intervening in their adult children's lives.

Keywords: Afghanistan; Parents; Peace Corps; Travel

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Afghanistan--Biography.

Partial Transcript: And they visited us in Afghanistan.

Segment Synopsis: Her parents came to visit in Afghanistan in 1975. They went all over the country and they were very pleased to be there. Her mother kept spraying her hands with Bactine. She still ended up getting sick but she was a good sport. They took them to Mazar i-Sharif, Peshawar, and the Khyber Pass. They ate in tea houses and traveled all over. Her parents loved their time there - they were very adventurous. J. Schiffbauer tells of being in the bazaar with her father where people were curious about them. But she was with her father, which was the most respectable way to be a woman in public.

Keywords: 1975; Bactine; Dysentery; Khyber Pass; Mazar-i-Sharif (Afghanistan); Peshawar (Pakistan); Travel; Travel with parents

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Khyber Pass (Afghanistan and Pakistan); Khyber Pass (Afghanistan and Pakistan)--Description and travel.; Mazār-i Sharīf (Afghanistan); Mazār-i Sharīf (Afghanistan)--Description and travel.; Parents.; Peshawar (City); Travel.

Partial Transcript: So how did it feel coming back to Afghanistan after being in the U.S. for a few months? And you came straight from Europe, right?

Segment Synopsis: J. Schiffbauer accompanied her parents on their 25th wedding anniversary to Italy. They were in Rome when Martin Luther King, Jr. was assassinated. It was an odd feeling for them to not be in America when that happened. She left her parents in Rome and went on to Kabul, Afghanistan. She flew into Kabul but the flight was diverted back to Kandahar. She had to take a bus from Kandahar to Kabul, and when she got off the bus in Kabul she smelled the kerosene lanterns burning and felt like she was home.

Keywords: 1968; Afghanistan; Assassinations; Bazaar; Europe; Italy; Kebabs; Lanterns; MLK; Martin Luther King, Jr.; Rome

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Kabul (Afghanistan); King, Martin Luther, Jr., 1929-1968--Assassination.; King, Martin Luther, Jr., 1929-1968.; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--Afghanistan.

Partial Transcript: We had a few, few tiffs I remember, one was about legalizing marijuana.

Segment Synopsis: J. Schiffbauer remembered an argument that she and W. Schiffbauer had over the legalization of marijuana. Neither of them smoked it but W. Schiffbauer was for it while J. Schiffbauer was against it. She saw all the hippies and 'free spirits' coming from Pakistan where it was forbidden to Afghanistan where it was readily available. They would cross the border and smoke and then fall into ditches and get sick. It was a ready deterrent for the Schiffbauers.

Keywords: Afghanistan; Cigarettes; Hashish; Hippies; Kandahar (Afghanistan); Legalization of marijuana; Marijuana; Silk Route

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Hippies.; Kandahār (Afghanistan); Marijuana.; Silk Route

Partial Transcript: So coming into Kabul I felt like we were home and then we drove down to Kandahar and Bill had described me--to me in a letter--(coughs)--um, what the house was like.

Segment Synopsis: W. Schiffbauer wrote her a romantic letter describing their house and the pomegranate trees in the yard. Their house did not have a high compound wall in the front which was unusual, though the backyard was walled in. There was always something interesting and new to see out their front windows. The walls were two or three feet thick for insulation. They did not have air conditioning but they had some window coolers.

Keywords: Afghanistan; Compounds; Home; Houses; Kandahar (Afghanistan); Love letters; Pomegranate trees

Subjects: Kandahār (Afghanistan); Women--Afghanistan--Social life and customs.

Partial Transcript: Most Afghan houses are surrounded by a high compound wall. Privacy is very important, especially in a culture where your womenfolk are not to be seen by anyone who is not part of the family.

Segment Synopsis: J. Schiffbauer compares their houses in Kandahar and Baghlan. Their house in Kandahar was more equipped with modern amenities. It is common in homes in Afghanistan to have high walls surrounding the house because privacy was very important. Women were not to be seen by anyone outside of the family. Women in villages had more freedom because most people in a village are related in some way. The women also worked in the fields, and you couldn't do that work while veiled.

Keywords: Afghanistan; Baghlan (Afghanistan); Compounds; Field work; High walls; Home; Houses; Kandahar (Afghanistan); Privacy; Rural life; Villages; Women; Women farmers; Women in Afghanistan

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Kandahār (Afghanistan); Women--Afghanistan--Social life and customs.; Women--Afghanistan.

Partial Transcript: Kandahar is considered a city but at that time I just wouldn't have called it a city. I'm not sure what it looks like now.

Segment Synopsis: The Taliban was never subdued in Kandahar after the Americans came in after 9/11/2001. Kandahar was a very conservative town, then and now.

Keywords: Birthplace of the Taliban; Conservative; Kandahar (Afghanistan); Taliban

Subjects: Kandahār (Afghanistan); Taliban.

Partial Transcript: It's interesting that our house in Kandahar did not have a high compound wall.

Segment Synopsis: The Schiffbauers' house was an anomaly in Kandahar because it did not have a high wall around the front yard. There was a low wall in their front wall and a high wall in the back. They could see a lot of new and interesting things from their front windows, like a bus full of sheep. They had a turkey in their back yard. They didn't have air conditioning but they did have air coolers. The temperature was about 100 degrees regularly.

Keywords: 100 degrees; Compounds; High walls; Kandahar (Afghanistan); Sheep; Stucco; Thick walls

Subjects: Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Housing--Afghanistan.; Kandahār (Afghanistan); Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--Afghanistan.

Partial Transcript: The house was a, a one story stucco--it looked like stucco, it was probably mud brick underneath.

Segment Synopsis: The Schiffbauers' house was made of mud brick and stucco, and the walls were over two feet thick to help keep the hot air out. There were air coolers in their windows (which are different than air conditioners). W. Schiffbauer fashioned an air cooler window unit to work in the Travelall, but it would get water all over the passenger (which was usually J. Schiffbauer.) She says that W. Schiffbauer was like a MacGyver.

Keywords: Air coolers; MacGyver; Mud brick; Stucco; Thick walls; Travelall

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Kandahār (Afghanistan); MacGyver (Television program : 1985-1992); Peace Corps (U.S.)--Afghanistan.; Stucco.

Partial Transcript: On that main road, just a few miles further out of Kandahar was--from our house, was the USAID compound.

Segment Synopsis: J. Schiffbauer describes living a few miles from the USAID compound in Kandahar. She said once you crossed over into the compound it was like going into a 'little America.' The houses were smaller and suburban looking. There was a restaurant, commissary, swimming pool, and a school house on the compound. Going to dinner there was a real treat for them. The school went through the 7th grade, so once children entered into high school they were usually sent away to boarding school.

Keywords: Americans in Afghanistan; Boarding schools; Commissary; Compounds; Gulf shrimp; Little America; Restaurants; Staff houses; Suburban; Swimming pools; United States Agency for International Development (USAID)

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Kabul.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Kandahār (Afghanistan); Peace Corps (U.S.)--Afghanistan.; USAID/Afghanistan.

Partial Transcript: The house itself, our house, uh, was very comfortable. It was larger than our house as Peace Corps volunteers.

Segment Synopsis: The Schiffbauers' house in Kandahar was large and comfortable. It was nicely furnished and they had a lot of space for two people.

Keywords: Offices; Refrigerators; Stoves

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Housing--Afghanistan.; Kandahār (Afghanistan); Peace Corps (U.S.)--Afghanistan--Biography.

Partial Transcript: Shortly after I arrived in Kandahar, you know I didn't have a, I didn't have a paid employment. I didn't have a job in Kandahar.

Segment Synopsis: J. Schiffbauer was the only woman on the USAID compound who had a college degree. They asked her to become a teacher at the school on the compound. She said yes even though she had no experience teaching. She refused to teach children to read though because she didn't want her inexperience to affect a child's ability to read.

Keywords: Afghanistan; First grade; Language arts; Second grade; Teaching; Teaching in a foreign country; United States Agency for International Development (USAID)

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Education--Afghanistan.; Kandahār (Afghanistan)

Partial Transcript: And I enjoyed it, that was something that I enjoyed doing and kept me busy, because Bill was away a lot with that job. He traveled a lot.

Segment Synopsis: Abu Bakr, who was with the Schiffbauers during their Peace Corps Volunteer service, came with them to Kandahar. W. Schiffbauer was traveling a lot and A. Bakr was J. Schiffbauer's protector. He also did all the shopping so J. Schiffbauer wouldn't have to go to the bazaar since W. Schiffbauer couldn't accompany her. She liked their life there - it was quiet and domestic and comfortable.

Keywords: Abu Bakr; Helpers; Household help; Peace Corps; Peace Corps volunteers; Protectors; Servants

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Kandahār (Afghanistan); Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--Afghanistan--Biography.; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Afghanistan.; Servant

Partial Transcript: And some of the things that happened then stand out in my memory.

Segment Synopsis: J. Schiffbauer recalls a night where W. Schiffbauer was gone. She had gone to bed, and A. Bakr was in his room at the other end of the house. She heard noises outside her window and called for A. Bakr. They ran into each other in the dark and both cried out. A. Bakr went outside to investigate and found a police man climbed into their apricot tree. He was getting a snack.

Keywords: Abu Bakr; Afghanistan; Apricot trees; Apricots; Domestic life; Fright; Kandahar (Afghanistan); Police; Scares

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Kandahār (Afghanistan)

Partial Transcript: Another notable event that occurred in Kandahar was when two Peace Corps Volunteers fell in love.

Segment Synopsis: Two Peace Corps fell in love in Kandahar and decided to get married. Their names are Kathy and Jay Stump. They were getting married at the Staff House on the USAID compound. J. Schiffbauer served as the 'mother of the bride' and W. Schiffbauer was the best man. They made all the arrangements for the wedding. They had a blue Iranian carpet that they used at the alter. W. Schiffbauer gave the groom and the rest of the wedding party ill fitting suits to wear, and J. Schiffbauer and the bride went to the bazaar to get paper flowers and a veil. The groom was getting over hepatitis and was jaundiced. After the ceremony they went back to the Schiffbauers' house for the reception. Larry Beck had to ask the electric company to make sure they had power that night, since the electricity was so spotty. They were happy to comply because the foreigners were having a wedding celebration. Their servant, A. Bakr, along with the restaurant staff of the USAID compound, created a traditional Afghan wedding feast with pulao, naan, chai, spinach and yogurt dishes, a beef and potato stew, firni (traditional dessert of Afghanistan) and a wedding cake.

Keywords: Afghan weddings; Afghanistan; Beef stew; Chak; Firni; Geraniums; Ginger ale; Kandahar (Afghanistan); Larry Beck; Love; Marriage; Naan; Paper flowers; Paper lanterns; Peace Corps Volunteers; Poppies; Pulao; Roses; Spinach; United States Agency for International Development (USAID); Wedding cakes; Weddings; Yogurt

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Jaundice.; Kandahār (Afghanistan); Marriage--Afghanistan.; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--Afghanistan--Biography.; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Afghanistan.; Wedding

Partial Transcript: The most important thing we did in Kandahar was decide to start our family.

Segment Synopsis: After being married for four years, the Schiffbauers made the deliberate choice to start their family. J. Schiffbauer imagines this must have stressed out her mother and mother-in-law to no end. After they made the decision, three or four weeks later J. Schiffbauer became pregnant. There was a Peace Corps doctor in Kabul, where she would deliver her baby.

Keywords: Afghanistan; Alan F. Guttmacher; Babies; Family planning; Planned; Pregnancy

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Family planning; Guttmacher, Alan F. (Alan Frank), 1898-1974; Guttmacher, Alan F. (Alan Frank), 1898-1974. Having a baby; Guttmacher, Alan F. (Alan Frank), 1898-1974. Pregnancy and birth; Kandahār (Afghanistan); Pregnancy.

Partial Transcript: How did you, how did you communicate with your family or tell your mother or your parents?

Segment Synopsis: J. Schiffbauer wrote to her parents on lettergrams telling them about her pregnancy. She would cover every inch of the paper because the letter itself folded up into an envelope. Her mother saved every letter J. Schiffbauer sent. Her parents were probably nervous but happy.

Keywords: Afghanistan; Communication; Diplomatic pouch; Lettergrams; Parents

Subjects: Airmail service; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Kandahār (Afghanistan); Letters.; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Afghanistan--Biography.

Partial Transcript: But the pregnancy was interesting, uh, because there were no--there was no ready-made clothing. Bill actually sewed some maternity outfits for me.

Segment Synopsis: There were no ready-made maternity clothes in Afghanistan. J. Schiffbauer, as a woman, could not go to a tailor because the tailors were men. They could not get close enough to a woman to measure her. W. Schiffbauer made J. Schiffbauer's maternity clothes. He sewed her a dress out of orange linen. They attended a Halloween party when J. Schiffbauer was about 6 months pregnant. She wore the orange dress and won the best costume award for her costume 'the Great Pumpkin.' He also made her brocade pants and top as well.

Keywords: Afghanistan; Brocade; Great Pumpkin; Halloween; Halloween costumes; Handmade; Handmade maternity clothes; Maternity clothes; Patterns; Pumpkins; Sewing; Tailoring

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Brocade; Halloween costumes.; Kandahār (Afghanistan); Linen.; Maternity clothes.; Pregnancy.

Partial Transcript: Were you ever nervous, or you--

Segment Synopsis: J. Schiffbauer recalls being nervous the night before their daughter was born because she realized that women can die in childbirth. But overall she felt confident because she was young and healthy, and that was the time to do those sorts of things. She realized there was nothing she could do to stop it and she had to let nature take its course. She was fortunate that her pregnancy was smooth.

Keywords: Afghanistan; Birth; Delivery; Kabul; Labor; Labor and delivery; Peace Corps hospital; Pregnancy

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan--Kabul.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Birth.; Kabul (Afghanistan); Labor and delivery; Pregnancy.

Partial Transcript: Let's see, something that happened during the pregnancy.

Segment Synopsis: W. Schiffbauer had just returned from a trip to Herat when they got a message that he needed to go back because one of the Peace Corps Volunteers had a family emergency. He was exhausted from the drive so J. Schiffbauer, at seven months pregnant, decided that she could drive him. She barely fit behind the wheel. It was 800 miles round trip. She is proud of this because she barely drives at all anymore; W. Schiffbauer drives her everywhere now.

Keywords: Family emergency; Herat; Peace Corps Volunteers; Two-way radios

Subjects: Americans--Afghanistan--Kabul.; Herat (Afghanistan); Kandahār (Afghanistan); Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--Afghanistan--Biography.; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Afghanistan.

Partial Transcript: Now, meanwhile, getting ready for the baby, uh, Bill and I, uh, worked to make a room for the baby.

Segment Synopsis: W. Schiffbauer made a crib that was strapped to a twin bed. They painted bears and blocks and colorful balls on it. W. Schiffbauer made a changing table. J. Schiffbauer's mother got permission to send twenty four cloth diapers and two nursing bras in the diplomatic pouch. She had her other book by Dr. Spock, that told her what to do after the baby came.

Keywords: Babies; Baby preparations; Changing tables; Cloth diapers; Cribs; Diapers; Dr. Spock; Maternity bras; Nursing bras; Preparations for baby

Subjects: Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Baby; Diapers.; Kandahār (Afghanistan); Newborn infants.

Partial Transcript: In January, two weeks before the due date, we drove to Kabul.

Segment Synopsis: Two weeks before their due date they drove down to Kabul. They stayed with Larry Beck, a Peace Corps staff coworker. There was another American woman in Kabul who was pregnant as well and due right around the same time. The day before Schiffbauer had the baby she went to Lynn Spurgat's house to play Scrabble (L. Spurgat was also pregnant.) She was having contractions all day, and when W. Schiffbauer came after work to take her home, she knew she was in real labor. She wasn't supposed to eat according to her book but she told the cook that she would have dinner anyway.

Keywords: Christian Science Monitor; Delivery; Jerry and Lynn Spurgat; Kabul (Afghanistan); Kabul, Afghanistan; Labor; Labor and delivery; Larry Beck; Peace Corps; Pregnancy

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan--Kabul.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Birth.; Kabul (Afghanistan); Labor and delivery; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Afghanistan--Biography.; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Afghanistan.

Partial Transcript: And then after supper I said well I thought it was time for us to go. And he was within walking distance of the dispensary.

Segment Synopsis: L. Beck and W. Schiffbauer walked J. Schiffbauer to the Peace Corps dispensary. It was a four bed dispensary. The Peace Corps doctor arrived. The doctor sent out for a caramel sundae and asked if she wanted one. She said no. She was the only patient and she felt like Jackie Onassis. She had their daughter, Rachel Schiffbauer, around 12:30am.

Keywords: Afghanistan; Birth; Caramel sundaes; Dispensary; Ice cream sundaes; Jackie Onassis; Kabul (Afghanistan); Kabul, Afghanistan; Labor; Labor and delivery; Peace Corps; Peace Corps dispensary; United States Agency for International Development (USAID)

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan--Kabul.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Birth.; Kabul (Afghanistan); Labor and delivery; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--Afghanistan.

Partial Transcript: Then, two days later I guess, I went back to Larry's house with the baby and we were going to drive back to Kandahar.

Segment Synopsis: After J. Schiffbauer had the baby she went back to L. Beck's house. They were going to head back to Kandahar but a snow storm came through and shut down the road. They stayed at L. Beck's for a week and J. Schiffbauer washed out the diapers in his bathtub.

Keywords: Afghanistan; Baby; Baby beds; Baby gifts; Bathtubs; Cloth diapers; Diapers; Gifts; Kabul (Afghanistan); Kandahar (Afghanistan); Newborns; Snow storms; Snowstorms

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Gifts.; Kabul; Kandahar; Newborn infants.; Snow.

Partial Transcript: Now that's when I got nervous, because your job is to keep this little creature alive. That's your job.

Segment Synopsis: They got home to Kandahar and J. Schiffbauer was breastfeeding. It was difficult for her and she was able to do about a month and a half before switching to formula feeding. For their last six months in Afghanistan she was preoccupied with her daughter.

Keywords: Afghanistan; Babies; Baby food; Baby formula; Breastfeeding; Kandahar (Afghanistan); Nervous; Newborn baby; Newborns

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Breastfeeding.; Kandahār (Afghanistan); Newborn infants--Care.; Newborn infants.

Partial Transcript: I get to go back to the lady I spent the day with, Lynn Spurgat. Violet (ed. note: Rachel) was born at 12:30 and about two hours later Lynn came in.

Segment Synopsis: After J. Schiffbauer gave birth to her daughter at 12:30am, about two hours later L. Spurgat came in to give birth to her baby. In one day two American babies were born at the dispensary in Kabul. That was very rare, as only a handful of Americans have been born in Kabul at all, so two on the same day was exceptional.

Keywords: Afghanistan; Americans born abroad; Americans born in Afghanistan; Birth; Foreign born Americans; Kabul (Afghanistan); Peace Corps; United States Agency for International Development (USAID)

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan--Kabul.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Kandahār (Afghanistan); Peace Corps (U.S.)--Afghanistan--Biography.; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Afghanistan.; USAID/Afghanistan.

Partial Transcript: Now I, I have to add one thing, when Violet was born--

Segment Synopsis: Their landlord in Kandahar made a long distance telephone call to W. Schiffbauer in Kabul after their daughter was born. It was very difficult to make a long distance call because the call had to travel from telephone house to telephone house to get there. He was calling to ask W. Schiffbauer to not be angry with J. Schiffbauer because she had a daughter. He said there will be other children and they will be sons. This was very liberal of him.

Keywords: Afghanistan; Daughters; Kabul (Afghanistan); Kandahar (Afghanistan); Long distance; Long distance phone calls; Shah; Shah of Iran; Sons

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan--Kabul.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Kabul (Afghanistan); Kandahār (Afghanistan); Telephone--Afghanistan--Maps.; Telephone--Long distance; Telephone.

Partial Transcript: Now, you know when we get further onto our story when we come back to Afghanistan in 1973, uh, I had another baby and it was a son.

Segment Synopsis: In 1973 the Schiffbauers had another baby and he was a boy. A. Bakr was so excited that he could have fired off cannons. They called their son Ben Schiffbauer 'the little king.' Their daughter R. Schiffbauer got a lot of attention because she had blonde hair. It was very unusual to see a blonde haired baby in Afghanistan.

Keywords: Abu Bakr; Babies; Baby; Blonde; Blonde hair; Daughters; Shah; Sons

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Daughters.; Kandahār (Afghanistan); Sons.

Partial Transcript: Did Abu help you with the baby?

Segment Synopsis: J. Schiffbauer had a wringer washer shipped over from her father's appliance store in the United States. This was very helpful for the washing of the cloth diapers - she didn't have to wash them in the bathtub any more. A. Bakr helped her with the laundry.

Keywords: Abu Bakr; Cloth diapers; Diapers; Laundry; Washing machine; Wringer washers

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Babies; Baby; Daughters.; Kandahār (Afghanistan); Laundry machinery.; Laundry.; Newborn infants--Care.; Newborn infants.; Washing (Laundry)

Partial Transcript: Larry Beck did later marry, in fact he married an Afghan woman and he had two sons. And so, uh, he wasn't too terribly scarred by having a newborn baby in his house for ten days.

Segment Synopsis: L. Beck, the person that the Schiffbauers stayed with in Kabul after they had their baby, wasn't too scarred from having a newborn in his house for ten days. Later he married an Afghan woman and they had two sons.

Keywords: Afghanistan; Babies; Kabul (Afghanistan); Marriage; Newborns; Sons

Subjects: Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan--Kabul.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Kabul (Afghanistan); Newborn infants.

Partial Transcript: But we--you know, we managed. It was a little nerve-wracking having the baby and that was my total concentration.

Segment Synopsis: J. Schiffbauer taught at the USAID school right up until they left Kandahar for Kabul for the delivery. They went two weeks before the due date and their daughter was born one week before her due date. When R. Schiffbauer was six months old they left Afghanistan, for what they thought was the last time.

Keywords: Afghanistan; Babies; Baby; Kandahar (Afghanistan); Moving; Newborns; United States Agency for International Development (USAID)

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan--Kabul.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Kandahār (Afghanistan); Newborn infants.; USAID/Afghanistan.

Partial Transcript: Was it different to be there like when you're making a paycheck versus when you were a volunteer?

Segment Synopsis: J. Schiffbauer says that they were not that consumed by money while they were in Kandahar - they didn't really think about money. She said their friends that they graduated college with were starting their careers. The Schiffbauers didn't really start thinking about that until they were in their early 30s. They bought things over there, especially Afghan rugs because those were the things that had value. She says that having her job and keeping busy was what she focused on. She would have been unhappy if she didn't have a job; that it wasn't the pay but it was the activity.

Keywords: Afghan rugs; Americans; Careers; Consumerism; Consumerist Americans; Consumers; IBM; Jobs; Money; Peace Corps Volunteers; Peace Corps staff; United States Agency for International Development (USAID)

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Consumerism; Consumers--United States--Attitudes.; Consumers--United States.; Kandahār (Afghanistan); Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--Afghanistan--Biography.; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Afghanistan.; Rugs--Afghanistan.

Partial Transcript: We had big Fourth of July celebrations at the compound and you felt very patriotic. Uh, things were going on, I mean that was the Vietnam War was starting to rage.

Segment Synopsis: There were big Fourth of July celebrations at the USAID compound in Kandahar. The Schiffbauers were often in Kabul and one time they went to the Embassy. Spiro Agnew was there and they were protesting. L. Beck got called back to the U.S. for writing a letter to a Congressman expressing his anti-war views. He got a dressing down and was sent back to Afghanistan. This was eye opening for the Schiffbauers. She was always very proud of the United States and that for her was the beginning of a lot of problems.

Keywords: 1968; Anti-war views; Eye-opening; Larry Beck; Protesting; Protests; Spiro Agnew; United States Agency for International Development (USAID); Vietnam War

Subjects: 1968.; Agnew, Spiro T., 1918-1996.; Fourth of July celebrations.; Fourth of July.; USAID/Afghanistan.; Vietnam War, 1961-1975--Protest movements.; Vietnam War, 1961-1975.

Partial Transcript: Did you ever feel grateful that you weren't in America at that time?

Segment Synopsis: J. Schiffbauer recalls that she felt like they were missing some historical moments in American history. It was hard to take the pulse of the nation by just reading about the events and that was hard. She felt bad that they were missing the events, but not that they weren't there to be traumatized by it.

Keywords: 1968; Afghanistan; America; Events in American history; United States Agency for International Development (USAID); Watergate

Subjects: Afghanistan.; American history and culture; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan.; History, 20th Century--United States.; Kandahār (Afghanistan); USAID/Afghanistan.; Watergate Scandal, 1972-1974

Partial Transcript: Yeah, it's kind of amazing because when I was researching 1968 specifically for this interview and seeing the similarities between then and now, 2018, it's alarming a little bit and--

Segment Synopsis: J. Schiffbauer recalls living through the events of 1968 while living in Afghanistan.

Keywords: 1968; Assassination; Freedom riders; Martin Luther King, Jr.; Peace Corps; Protests; Robert F Kennedy; Social change; Social movements; Vietnam War

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan--Kabul.; Americans--Afghanistan.; History, 20th Century--United States.; Kabul (Afghanistan); Kandahār (Afghanistan); Kennedy, Robert F., 1925-1968.; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--Afghanistan--Biography.; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Afghanistan.; Social movements--United States.

Partial Transcript: When did come back in 1970, between '70 and '73 that, that was--you know, we finally got out of Vietnam and that was traumatic.

Segment Synopsis: When the war was wrapping up in Vietnam, Americans were being airlifted off the roof in the Embassy. The Vietnamese who had worked with Americans were being left behind, which was very unsafe for them. J. Schiffbauer recalls this same move when Americans were in Afghanistan post 9/11. The military left some Afghans over there who had helped them. The Schiffbauers still get letters from Afghans asking them to write letters of recommendation to get special visas to come to the United States. They always write the letters but the chances are nil because if they worked for USAID that is not the same as working for the U.S. government.

Keywords: 9/11/2001; Afghans; Asylum; September 11, 2001; September 11th; Special Visa; United States Agency for International Development (USAID); Vietnam War; Vietnamese; War in Afghanistan

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Asylum; Letters--Congresses.; September 11 Terrorist Attacks, 2001.; USAID/Afghanistan.

Partial Transcript: Did you see any footage of the riots of the Democratic National Convention in Chicago over there or you just heard?

Segment Synopsis: There was no television in Afghanistan the first two times the Schiffbauers were there, but J. Schiffbauer remembers listening to the Moon Landing on the radio while trying to knit a scarf. Being there later in the 2000s, they had access to the internet and that changed everything. They were able to experience the tragedy of Hurricane Katrina and share in that trauma.

Keywords: 1968 Democratic National Convention; Afghanistan; Current events; Hurricane Katrina; Internet; Knitting; Moon landing; Radio; Television

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Apollo 11 (Spacecraft); Democratic National Convention (1968 : Chicago, Ill.); Hurricane Katrina, 2005.; Radio.; Television.

Partial Transcript: Kabul especially from the 1930s to the 1970s was known as the Paris of Central Asia. Did you--and then that changed, right a little bit later, kind of later in the '70s.

Segment Synopsis: J. Schiffbauer would have never called Kabul 'The Paris of Central Asia' but sees how it could have been like that in the 1930s. She says it might have been a lot greener because the population grew and therefore the amounts of goats grew too. Goats will eat anything, so they ate a lot of the greenery and trees around Kabul. She recognizes that the undercurrents of what was to come were there, but she never sensed them. Being in the rural areas was like living in a different century. It was pastoral and idyllic. But now the war has killed a lot of the trees and the green spaces.

Keywords: Deforestation; Farming techniques; Gardens; Goats; Golden Age; Idyllic; Kabul (Afghanistan); Living in another century; Pastoral beauty; Picnics; Undercurrents

Subjects: Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan--Kabul.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Goats.; Golden age; Kabul (Afghanistan)

Partial Transcript: Uh, but at, at that time in the late '60s it was the Paris of the--of Asia in that things were improving. Women had much more freedom of movement.

Segment Synopsis: There was a lot of improvement in Afghanistan in the 1960s. Women had a lot of freedom and were working in the ministries and in hospitals. The streets were being paved and a lot of other improvements were happening.

Keywords: Afghan women; Women in Afghanistan

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Women--Afghanistan--Social conditions--20th century.; Women--Afghanistan--Social conditions.; Women--Afghanistan--Social life and customs.; Women--Afghanistan.

Partial Transcript: I remember when a little restaurant opened across the street from the Peace Corps office in Kabul, uh, and it was a pizza place.

Segment Synopsis: A pizza restaurant opened in Kabul by the Peace Corps office. They were excited to have a pizza restaurant that they could go to. The most common restaurant was a tea house and those were only for men. One rarely saw an Afghan man out with his wife. It was not polite to even ask about an Afghan's wife - that would be considered an invasion of privacy.

Keywords: Afghanistan; Husbands; Naan; Naan pizza; Pizza; Privacy; Wives

Subjects: Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan--Kabul.; Kabul (Afghanistan); Marriage--Afghanistan.; Pizza.; Women--Afghanistan.

Partial Transcript: Whereas we, if you learn that the wife is--that you're going to have a baby, you just want to tell everybody and you're excited about it and openly excited about it.

Segment Synopsis: In Afghanistan you would never know if someone was having a baby until the baby arrived. This was partly because of the high infant and maternal mortality rates in the country, but also due to privacy. One main cause is malnutrition and anemia. In Afghan culture the men eat first and the women eat what is left. Women would pass diseases by sharing the chadri. The same amount of blood loss that would not kill an American woman would kill an Afghan woman in birth because Afghan women can be so anemic.

Keywords: Afghanistan; Anemia; Chadri; Family; Infant mortality; Malnutrition; Maternal mortality; Pregnancy; Privacy; Tuberculosis

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Anemia.; Malnutrition--Afghanistan.; Maternal mortality; Tuberculosis.; Women--Afghanistan--Social conditions.; Women--Afghanistan--Social life and customs.; Women--Afghanistan.; infant mortality

Partial Transcript: The second thing would be, uh, child marriage, or, you know, by child I would include twelve year--uh, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, even fifteen years old.

Segment Synopsis: Another reason that the maternal mortality is so high in Afghanistan is because there is a lot of child marriage in Afghanistan. Girls' bodies are not meant to have children.

Keywords: Afghanistan; Child brides; Child marriage; Maternal mortality

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Child marriage--Afghanistan.; Maternal mortality

Partial Transcript: Our later project was establishing clinics in rural areas and promoting the idea that you come to the clinic to be delivered.

Segment Synopsis: Another project that J. Schiffbauer worked on while in Afghanistan was establishing clinics in rural areas and promoting the idea that you go to the clinic to have your baby. Midwives in rural areas did not know the basic tenants of sanitation, and a man would not bring a woman to a clinic because she would have to be examined by a man. One of the most dangerous things an Afghan woman can do is get pregnant and have a baby.

Keywords: Afghanistan; Delivery; Infant mortality; Labor; Labor and delivery; Maternal mortality; Pregnancy; Rural

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Maternal mortality; Medical assistance, American--Afghanistan.; Medical assistance--Afghanistan.; infant mortality

Partial Transcript: There were, there were things about that Kabul that were--it's beautiful there in the winter when the snow is on those barren mountains that surround the city like a bowl.

Segment Synopsis: The winter is a beautiful time in Kabul, where the snow blankets everything. Men would have to shovel off their roofs because the roofs are flat.

Keywords: Blanket of snow; Roof; Shovel; Snow; Snow capped mountains; Snow covered mountains; White; Winter

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan--Kabul.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Kabul (Afghanistan); Winter--Afghanistan--Kabul.

Partial Transcript: It was, it was lovely. It's, uh--and it's pastoral. You know, you don't drive very far out of the city before you--in the city everything is so fascinating.

Segment Synopsis: J. Schiffbauer describes the bazaar in Kabul.

Keywords: Bazaars; Birds; Cities; City; Fascinating; Old city; Pastoral; Shampoo; Tinsmiths; Veiled

Subjects: Bazaars (Markets); Bazaars (Markets)--Afghanistan--Kabul.; Bazaars.; Kabul (Afghanistan)

Partial Transcript: And we spoke the language so we could really talk with people and ask them questions and tell them about ourselves.

Segment Synopsis: Speaking Farsi really opened them up to communicating with Afghans. J. Schiffbauer would like to tell people how long she and W. Schiffbauer had been married, how long their parents had been married, and try to describe their American culture. They felt like Afghans got a very different idea of American culture from movies. J. Schiffbauer has beautiful memories of Afghanistan.

Keywords: Afghanistan; American culture; Bazaars; Communicating; Communication; Farsi; Foreign languages; Markets; Marriage; Memories

Subjects: American Culture; American culture/American cinema; Bazaars (Markets); Bazaars (Markets)--Afghanistan--Kabul.; Farsi language

Partial Transcript: In Kandahar once we looked out the front window and there was an old baba, an old man with a gray beard, he was sort of chubby.

Segment Synopsis: J. Schiffbauer tells a story about looking out their front window and seeing a man with his tethered donkey kneeling in their grass and cutting it with a hand sickle.

Keywords: Baba; Donkeys; Grass; Hand sickles; Sickles

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Kandahār (Afghanistan)

Partial Transcript: Yeah, it was exciting, it was never boring.

Segment Synopsis: J. Schiffbauer remembers going to the Inter-Continental Hotel in Kabul. There was a dining room on the top floor with a dance floor. When she was pregnant in 1973 she went there with A. Bakr and W. Schiffbauer. They had baked Alaska which was a real treat.

Keywords: Baked Alaska; Hotel Inter-continental Kabul; Kabul International Hotel

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan--Kabul.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Kabul (Afghanistan)

Partial Transcript: Our time in Kandahar was, for me, very much concentrating on being a teacher of young children, uh, and going through my first pregnancy.

Segment Synopsis: J. Schiffbauer summarizes her time in Kandahar as being filled with teaching and her first pregnancy. After her daughter was born, she struggled to find a formula that she could have. They finally settled on soy milk. The doctor said to take her home (to the U.S.) and she'll be fine.

Keywords: Afghanistan; Babies; Baby; Birth; Formula; Kandahar (Afghanistan); Newborns; Pregnancy; Soy milk; Teachers; Teaching

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Kandahār (Afghanistan)

Partial Transcript: There were just so many things to beware of with an infant and I'm glad that we left there before she started crawling.

Segment Synopsis: After leaving Afghanistan, they went to England to pick up a Volvo station wagon that they had ordered through the mail. Their daughter learned to crawl in the back of that station wagon. They drove all over England before heading back to the U.S. They rented a pram from Harrods Department Store, and J. Schiffbauer got scolded one time for driving it on the grass.

Keywords: 1970; Afghanistan; Baby carriages; England; Harrods; Oxford (England); Prams; Sherwood Forest; Stonehenge; Volvo; Volvo station wagons

Subjects: Harrod's Stores, Ltd.; Harrods Ltd.; London (England); Station wagons; Volvo automobile

Partial Transcript: So, when you were getting ready to leave, um, were you sad about leaving Afghanistan or were you just focused on Rachel and getting--

Segment Synopsis: J. Schiffbauer was sad to leave Afghanistan because when they left in July of 1970 they didn't ever expect to return. They spent all their married years there and their first child was born there. They left behind a lot of Afghan and American friends there.

Keywords: 1970; Afghanistan; Children; Family; Friends; Leaving Afghanistan; Marriage

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Kandahār (Afghanistan)

Partial Transcript: The, the--some of the strongest friendships that we've made in our lives have come from places where you share unique experiences and then you have to part.

Segment Synopsis: J. Schiffbauer tells of the struggles with keeping in touch with friends that they met in Afghanistan. She never joined Facebook because she thought it would be too overwhelming. She sees how it can be useful to people in Afghanistan as a window out of their world.

Keywords: Communication; Correspondence; Facebook; Keep in touch

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Correspondence.; Facebook (Electronic resource); Facebook (Online social network)

Partial Transcript: We had to say goodbye to Abu, and he had lived with us and taken care of us.

Segment Synopsis: Saying goodbye to A. Bakr was hard because they had lived together and he protected them for many years.

Keywords: Abu Bakr; Friends; Servants

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Kandahār (Afghanistan)

Partial Transcript: I hope this will be of interest to some people but it's really just a story of a life and probably could be duplicated by lots of other Peace Corps Volunteers.

Segment Synopsis: J. Schiffbauer reflects on how the Peace Corps changed their lives. Though she was exposed to travel during her childhood, W. Schiffbauer wasn't but he made the most of every opportunity. Being in the Peace Corps really changed the trajectory of their lives.

Keywords: Afghanistan; Excitement; Life changing; Life changing experiences; Love; Peace Corps; Peace Corps Volunteers; Travel; Young love

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--Afghanistan--Biography.; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Afghanistan.

Partial Transcript: And we felt very proprietorial about Afghanistan, we--(coughs)--did. The, the place names that no one had ever heard spoken by human voice on American television were now being spoken.

Segment Synopsis: The Schiffbauers felt very protective of Afghanistan post 9/11. They felt violated in some way when they heard the news talking about places they knew so intimately. They felt like the experience of the American soldiers was so different from theirs'. But even the soldiers became enamored with it.

Keywords: 9/11/2001; Feelings; Post 9/11/2001; September 11, 2001; September 11th

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan--Kabul.; Americans--Afghanistan.; September 11 Terror Attacks, 2001

Partial Transcript: We did go to a Halloween party in Ka, in Kandahar.

Segment Synopsis: In Baghlan they got pressured to buy an American high school band uniform in the bazaar. It came in handy for a Halloween party in Kandahar.

Keywords: Afghanistan; Baghlan (Afghanistan); Band uniforms; Bazaars (Markets); Costumes; Halloween; Kandahar (Afghanistan)

Subjects: Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Baghlān (Afghanistan); Kandahār (Afghanistan)

Partial Transcript: So we had more amenities and a--uh, than we'd had in Baghlan. It was a different kind of life.

Segment Synopsis: J. Schiffbauer feels like her life in Kandahar might have been similar to a life she would have been living in the U.S. She had a baby shower with an odd assortment of gifts because there were no big baby stores. W. Schiffbauer was able to make a transatlantic phone call to J. Schiffbauer's mother when their daughter was born.

Keywords: Afghanistan; Amenities; Appliances; Baby showers; Kandahar (Afghanistan); Transatlantic phone calls; Wringer washers

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Kandahār (Afghanistan)

Partial Transcript: I, I think it's to my parents' credit and to my husband's parents' credit that they produced two people who were very self-confident and willing to take that step out into the unknown.

Segment Synopsis: J. Schiffbauer credits her and W. Schiffbauer's parents for raising them with self-confidence to go on this adventure. Looking back she is surprised that she was not hesitant at all, she was just excited for the adventure.

Keywords: Adventure; Afghanistan; Parents; Peace Corps; Self-confidence; Self-confident; Travel; Unknown; Young

Subjects: Afghanistan.; Americans--Afghanistan--Biography.; Americans--Afghanistan.; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--Afghanistan.