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Partial Transcript: This is Barbara Rylko-Bauer, and I'm conducting an interview with Susan Andreatta for the Society for Applied Anthropology's Oral History Project.
Segment Synopsis: Andreatta is asked by Rylko-Bauer to describe her background and education in anthropology. Andreatta describes her beginnings in a medical school where her father was an associate dean, followed by her beginnings in anthropology and Spanish at the University of Delaware. Andreatta explains how she created her own applied anthropology program by taking agricultural and Latin American courses across multiple disciplines. She notes the influence that anthropologists like Juan Villamarin, Norman Schwartz, and Mike Whiteford had upon her early college education at the University of Delaware and Michigan State University. Andreatta then describes her initial experience in the Caribbean working in Jamaica on agroforestry and with farmers who had been displaced by government policies. Andreatta goes on to describe how she then continued to work in the Caribbean.
Keywords: Agriculture; Agroforestry; Antigua; Caribbean; David Watts; Environment; Environmental studies; Human geography; Juan Villamarin; Latin America; Mike Whiteford; Norman Schwartz; Spanish; University of Hull; Water issues; Water usage; Water use; Women in development
Subjects: Agroforestry; Anthropology; Applied anthropology; Latin America; Society for Applied Anthropology
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Partial Transcript: Well, before we, um, switch to talking about your early work experiences, um, when you were doing your, uh, doctoral studies, was it, um--I mean obviously you, you know, you have a very strong applied orientation.
Segment Synopsis: Andreatta describes how she got into applied anthropology without ever taking an applied anthropology course while in university. Andreatta expresses her belief that anthropology is just wasted effort if it isn't put to use for the benefit of those who are being observed and studied. This belief is what grounded her in applied anthropology. However, Andreatta also describes her status in academic anthropology as a university professor and how this hybrid status can be utilized in encouraging students to apply their research towards improvement and development. Andreatta also explains how her work brought her to the intersection of international and domestic agriculture and how work done in either can be utilized when studying the other. She further elaborates this concept by describing her collaboration with other academics specializing in other areas of farming and agriculture.
Keywords: Community engagement; Connecting with community; Domestic work; Environmental anthropology; Farmers; Hybrid anthropologists; Hybrid anthropology; Inter-disciplinary approaches; International work; Intersectionality; John O'Sullivan; Land-based food systems; Medical anthropology; Mike Whiteford; Organic farming; Pragmatism; Scott Whiteford; Student-engagement; Water-based food systems
Subjects: Anthropology; Applied anthropology; Interdisciplinary approach in education; Medical anthropology; Organic farming; Pragmatism; Society for Applied Anthropology
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Partial Transcript: But I think now I'd like to turn to your work at the--for the Society of Applied Anthropology.
Segment Synopsis: Andreatta describes her path to becoming the Society for Applied Anthropology president. Andreatta explains to Rylko-Bauer that the society is strongest when there is dialogue between committees, the board, students, and the local communities where events take place. When asked about her achievements, Andreatta states that it is the small, quiet things such as creating liaisons on the board for committees that she is most proud of. Andreatta stresses the importance of networking for students and encourages future board members and society members to make themselves available to students at society meetings.
Keywords: Bureaucracy; Career mapping; Committees; Community outreach; Direct communication; Mike Whiteford; Networking; Student outreach
Subjects: Anthropology; Applied anthropology; Bureaucracy; Community participation; Outreach; Society for Applied Anthropology
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Partial Transcript: Well, I think this is a good, kind of, segue to your work at UNCG.
Segment Synopsis: After being asked about her work at the University of North Carolina, Greensboro, Andreatta describes the courses she teaches and the textbooks she has helped author. Andreatta then begins to describe her involvement in the university's community garden. She explains that the garden serves multiple purposes: it is a social sphere for students, a relief from the stress of university life, a way to teach students skills on how to live a sustainable lifestyle, and a way to help support the local community. When Rylko-Bauer asks about another garden project, Project Greenleaf, Andreatta explains that this particular initiative was targeted at the immigrant community as a way of helping them help themselves. This project received attention and support from Bruce Springsteen and other charitable donors for its goals.
Keywords: Applied perspective; Campus involvement; Charity; Community gardens; Community involvement; Community outreach; Immigrant communities; Immigrants; Networking; Sustainability; Textbooks; University gardens; University of North Carolina; University of North Carolina, Greensboro (UNCG)
Subjects: Anthropology; Applied anthropology; Charity; Community gardens; Immigrants; Outreach; Society for Applied Anthropology; Sustainability; Sustainable agriculture
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Partial Transcript: And that same website, um, was picked up, and then maybe my articles on community-supported agriculture.
Segment Synopsis: Andreatta and Rylko-Bauer discuss Andreatta's involvement in setting up "Carteret Catch." Andreatta explains that she was approached by a fishery specialist in North Carolina about setting up a similar system based upon the community gardens she had been involved in, but the focus this time being community fisheries. Andreatta describes the importance of promoting seafood products as local to give them an edge in the competition with imported seafood. She then states that the program in North Carolina spread to all U.S. coastlines and beyond under different names.
Keywords: Barry Nash; Buying local; Community fisheries; Community outreach; Community supported fisheries (CSF); Emic perspective; Fisheries; Fisherman; Fishers; Fishing practices; Local businesses; Outreach; Small businesses; Traceability program
Subjects: Anthropology; Applied anthropology; Outreach; Small business; Society for Applied Anthropology
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Partial Transcript: Well, to kind of conclude, um, I, I want to ask kind of these larger, um, uh, questions relating to impact and vision.
Segment Synopsis: Andreatta responds to Rylko-Bauer's question on the impact of her efforts and work. Andreatta emphasizes that it is important for young people to be involved with farming or at least know the work that goes into it. Andreatta explains that water wars, starvation, climate change, loss of biodiversity, and many other environmental changes that are occurring and will occur if our resource extraction practices do not evolve to be more sustainable. Andreatta discusses the philosophy of degrowth, not placing the value of GDP over the importance of ensuring quality of life and environmental protection. Before the interview closes, Andreatta states her belief that there will be no shortage of issues for applied anthropologists to work on in the future and stresses the importance of helping people's voices be heard, not just the issues that they face.
Keywords: Applied anthropology; Climate change; Degrowth; Global impact; Marginalization; Sustainability
Subjects: Anthropology; Applied anthropology; Climate change; Society for Applied Anthropology; Sustainability
RYLKO-BAUER: This is Barbara Rylko-Bauer, and I'm conducting an interview
with Susan Andreatta for the Society for Applied Anthropology's Oral History Project. The interview is being conducted on Friday, March 22, 2019, during the annual SfAA [Society for Applied Anthropology] meeting held in Portland, Oregon. Welcome, Susan, and thank you for agreeing for the interview. We've been trying to do this for a while--ANDREATTA: (laughs)--yes, we have.
RYLKO-BAUER: Yeah.
ANDREATTA: It's an honor to be here and be here--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah--
ANDREATTA: --in Portland.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um, I'd like to focus on your background and education, on your
very long history of service to the society, and on your research, teaching and community engagement at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro, um, where you're currently full Professor in the Department of Anthropology, correct?ANDREATTA: Yes.
RYLKO-BAUER: So why don't we start from the be--at the beginning, and--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um, what led you to choose anthropology as an area of study and
as your career?ANDREATTA: Um-hm. Um, I think I owe it to my father who's, uh, Geno Andreatta
00:01:00and was Dean of [Student Affairs at] the Upstate Medical Center, uh, in New York in Syracuse for thirty-three years.RYLKO-BAUER: Hmm.
ANDREATTA: His area was, um, admissions, and it was always about students and
student involvement. And in his capacity, he knew a lot of professors there and teach--it's a teaching hospital.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And he provided me with opportunities to be candy stripers and work
in the labs--RYLKO-BAUER: --oh--
ANDREATTA: --for people doing research on cancer and was really hoping I'd be a
medical doctor.RYLKO-BAUER: So can I stop you for a minute? What--? So he was a--um, he was a
medical anthropologist?ANDREATTA: Uh-huh.
RYLKO-BAUER: But he was in an administrative position?
ANDREATTA: Yes. He was at, uh, Syracuse center--University and then got picked
up, um, by--RYLKO-BAUER: --hmm--
ANDREATTA: --the medical school to teach future doctors and nurses
cross-cultural medical, uh, issues.RYLKO-BAUER: --and this was--
ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --in what time period?
ANDREATTA: Um, see, I was born in 1961, so he was dean--associate dean by 1968.
00:02:00RYLKO-BAUER: So that's kind of unusual with--I would think for, uh, you know, as
a position for an anthropologist--ANDREATTA: --it's so--
RYLKO-BAUER: --at that time--
ANDREATTA: --unusual because all he had was an MA--
RYLKO-BAUER: --wow--
ANDREATTA: --and lasted through--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah--
ANDREATTA: --all the presidents until he retired in 1994.
RYLKO-BAUER: Interesting.
ANDREATTA: Yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah.
ANDREATTA: Yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: Nineteen ninety-four?
ANDREATTA: Is when he retired--
RYLKO-BAUER: --okay. Um-hm. Anyway, so go ahead with, um, his--
ANDREATTA: --yes--
RYLKO-BAUER: --so, obviously--
ANDREATTA: --so--
RYLKO-BAUER: --his influence on you--
ANDREATTA: --yeah. So--
RYLKO-BAUER: --and, yeah--.
ANDREATTA: --his influence, he, he was--uh, first language was in Italian, and
we spoke Spanish and English. Our trips were always multicultural, and I think that was, sort of, subliminal. And by the way, being an Italian, we always had a garden, and he was a little winemaker. So there were--(Rylko-Bauer laughs)--there were things there that were, um, you know, just in our upbringing, and--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --you learn vicariously. So I did my or began my, uh, undergraduate
education at the University of Delaware and started pre-med as I had been groomed, uh, after candy striping and working in labs for cancer research. And, 00:03:00um, I found other things of interest, and anthropology and Spanish really made, uh, uh, a, a deeper connection for me than being pre-med.RYLKO-BAUER: So when did you--um, when did you take your first anthropology class--
ANDREATTA: --the very first semester.
RYLKO-BAUER: Oh. And what about it, uh, captured your imagination?
ANDREATTA: Um, I think the professors were wonderful. We were four-field, and I
loved all of it. Um, and even if I go back a little bit in our high school, we had the opportunity to, um, work on digs near the Iroquois nation and so I think I was getting a little bit from social studies and just a really rich experience that I already knew what anthropology--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --was. And I was not going to miss out on the opportunity--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --to take it at, at the college level.
RYLKO-BAUER: So this was in Syracuse that, that you were in high school?
ANDREATTA: In high school.
00:04:00RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: Yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: Okay.
ANDREATTA: And then the University of Delaware, at that time, was cheaper than
staying in New York.RYLKO-BAUER: Hmm, um-hm.
ANDREATTA: Um, uh, my first year was $3700--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and for the--well, no, for the year, it was seven thousand, thirty-seven--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm.
ANDREATTA: Now, Delaware's thirty-five thousand. (both laugh)
RYLKO-BAUER: Yeah, times have changed.
ANDREATTA: Yeah, times have changed.
RYLKO-BAUER: Yeah.
ANDREATTA: Uh, so I think taking it right away and then having some capacity and
knowledge of Spanish too, uh, early on--we had it through high school--it was an easy double major.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And, uh, that was, you know, like very exciting. And I, you know, did
my sciences, and I think what I left with was a good foundation in liberal arts.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm. So you graduated with--what year?
ANDREATTA: Uh, 1984--
RYLKO-BAUER: --okay, and you--
ANDREATTA: --and--
RYLKO-BAUER: --graduated with a BA in--
ANDREATTA: --in anthropology--
RYLKO-BAUER: --in anthropology--
ANDREATTA: --and Spanish--
RYLKO-BAUER: --and Spanish. Okay.
ANDREATTA: And I had two, three, four wonderful professors. And Juan Villamarin,
who was the, uh, department head at the time, um, took me under his wing, and I 00:05:00did a lot of independent studies with him and--RYLKO-BAUER: --what was his name again?
ANDREATTA: Juan Villamarin.
RYLKO-BAUER: Okay.
ANDREATTA: Villa?
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: ----------(??) the--um, and then, uh, he took me under wing for
independent studies and learning a lot about Latin America and using my Spanish. And then, um, Norman Schwartz was a--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --a delightful buddy of Mike Whiteford and Scott Whiteford and
Stormin' Norman said, um, "You've got to go to graduate school, and I'll, I'll help you make that happen. And you've got to go--RYLKO-BAUER: --oh--
ANDREATTA: --look at Iowa. So I, uh--somehow, I don't know how it happened, uh,
I applied to a number of schools, uh. I got accepted with a full scholarship to Iowa State University.RYLKO-BAUER: Wow.
ANDREATTA: And I got to work with Mike Whiteford.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And Mike Whiteford--there were only two in our entering class. It's
right when Apple computers came out, and Mike was all into this technology. Uh, 00:06:00we were the first two--Rob Sams and I were the first two of his students to be able to type on a computer and complete our master's thesis. (laughs) Mike gave me the key to his office and said, "You know you can work on it at night,"--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --"and, and I get it during the day." Um, and Mike said, "You're
funded for two years, you're going to be finished."RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And I was still interested in Latin America, women in, uh,
development, women in agriculture. And, uh, we scrambled for grants and then he said, "Oh, I know how this could happen." And he had a friend in, Fred Lang, a friend who said, "I've been working in- Guanacaste Costa Rica." Is it going?RYLKO-BAUER: Yeah.
ANDREATTA: "I've been working in, um, in Costa Rica----------(??), and they're
trying to do something to that community that's going to tear it apart. They want to build"--RYLKO-BAUER: --oh.
ANDREATTA: --"two hotels in the area. And I've been doing, um, archeology here
00:07:00with field schools." And, um, Mike suggested that I do an, uh, an impact assessment, uh, on--RYLKO-BAUER: --oh--
ANDREATTA: --a village.
RYLKO-BAUER: Oh, okay, yeah.
ANDREATTA: And so I went down and documented there are people living here and
what's going on and my--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and I didn't know about applied anthro before that, but this was
Mike's entrée--RYLKO-BAUER: --okay--
ANDREATTA: --um, for applied anthropology--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And so I, I was there for six months working on data collection, came
back, and the rest is history for a master's thesis. (laughs)RYLKO-BAUER: And, uh, so did you then get your PhD from there as well?
ANDREATTA: Oh, no. It was a terminal MA program--
RYLKO-BAUER: --oh--
ANDREATTA: --and Mike--
RYLKO-BAUER: --it was, okay--
ANDREATTA: --said, "I think you should apply to Michigan State and work with"--
ANDREATTA: --"my brother."
RYLKO-BAUER: Oh, that's right. You were at Michigan State--(Andreatta
laughs)--yes, that's right.ANDREATTA: [unclear]--well, well--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah--
ANDREATTA: Yeah. So, um--So, um, what happened? Uh, I applied to Michigan State,
00:08:00and I was accep--accepted there, and I carried on with Latin America and women in development and then things just blossomed. I just saw applied in a variety of different ways and realized if I'm going to do things with environment, health, nutrition, I started thinking about it--a bicycle wheel, and the anthropology, applied anthropology was the center.RYLKO-BAUER: Hmm.
ANDREATTA: And all these other things were the spokes, and the rim, the wheel
held it all together. So I--RYLKO-BAUER: --oh, that's an interesting--
ANDREATTA: --took--
RYLKO-BAUER: --image.
ANDREATTA: Yeah. I took courses in natural resource management.
RYLKO-BAUER: Okay.
ANDREATTA: I took courses from sociology in farming systems. I took courses in
nutrition and health--um, I was all over the place--ag economics. And it was all of these things that began f--building my foundation as an applied anthropologist in these areas, environment, health and, and nutrition--RYLKO-BAUER: --so you kind of created your own applied program?
ANDREATTA: I sure did.
RYLKO-BAUER: Because there was no formal program then?
00:09:00ANDREATTA: No. Yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah, interesting--
ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --very interesting.
ANDREATTA: And then I got an opportunity to, um, work on a project in Jamaica on
agroforestry. I've taken forestry classes--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and was nicely funded, and they sent me there for a year. And I
ended up staying thirteen months to work on a forestry project with--where we were--my role was to figure out where to plant the trees and which community and for what reason. Um, and that was really fascinating.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: I go?
RYLKO-BAUER: Hmm?
ANDREATTA: Should I keep going on that?
RYLKO-BAUER: Sure, yeah, please.
ANDREATTA: --um, one of the role--my--I think, uh, contribution in that project
was everybody thinks about farmers sort of homogenous--uh, homogenously, and what my, um, data was able to reveal is not all farmers were the same. Um, there's women farmers, poor farmers, rich farmers, but this was a plantation where people were kind of forced to relocate there because they were removed 00:10:00from the mountains f--for the Jamaican government to enable, um, bauxite to be extracted from the--RYLKO-BAUER: --mining, yeah--
ANDREATTA: --land. Mining. And the people farming didn't know how to work in sugarcane.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And there was rapid turnover. So who was there were some new people,
old people. Um, cane production was just not on anybody's radar. The erosion level was amazing. So they wanted to plant trees to help the cows but also retain the soil.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm--
ANDREATTA: Who do you work with, who are your models, who are your--? And so I
was able to just disaggregate what farmers looked like. And that, that helped the new f--um, the pro--the next step was where to plant the trees.RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm.
ANDREATTA: So those--that was pretty exciting. Then I got a postdoc. Uh, I met
a--um, I met a man in, uh, in the Caribbean. How we--there was a conference I went to, uh, for f--for the forestry project and I met David Watts.RYLKO-BAUER: Right.
ANDREATTA: And, lo and behold, when I finished my, my PhD, I was just idling in
00:11:00California for a while in San Diego teaching across the border. I was a migrant worker, uh, teaching at COLEF [El Colegio de la Frontera Norte], uh, peasant studies in Latin America, and I get a telephone call from David Watts and said, "Could you come to England and work with us on a postdoc in the Caribbean?"RYLKO-BAUER: Wow, what an opportunity.
ANDREATTA: Oh my, yes.
RYLKO-BAUER: Huh.
ANDREATTA: So I was two years doing my laundry at the University of Hull and
then they sent me island-hopping to look at--um, look at environmental conditions. And they wanted--it was on water, water issues, um, and I said, "Well, the best people, the canaries for me are farmers, and their need for water."RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: My whole dissertation was on absence of water--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm, okay--
ANDREATTA: --and that's what we were finding in--at the time that we were in the
Cari--uh, drought and--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --it was--they had missed three rainy seasons, and so--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --the number of cattle that were dying, and you're not going to be
planting many trees during the drought. (laughs)RYLKO-BAUER: Right, no, absolutely.
00:12:00ANDREATTA: Yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: So, uh, when you were at, um, the University of Hull, where were
you based? I mean when you said you were doing laundry, I guess--(Andreatta laughs)--I misunderstood that--ANDREATTA: --right, no. Uh, at the University of Hull, I was in the department
of geography and natural resources--RYLKO-BAUER: --okay--
ANDREATTA: --um, with two human geographers, uh, one with, uh, uh, lo--David
Watts, longtime Caribbean--RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah--
ANDREATTA: --experience and wrote the seminal work on, uh, the history of the
Car--the Caribbean--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --English Caribbean. And, um, Terry Marsden, my other, uh, coworker,
and they were the ones that, uh, had got this, uh, Erasmus+ grant to work on, on this project. Uh, he was a human geographer that was interested in natural resources.RYLKO-BAUER: Okay.
ANDREATTA: Yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: So tell me again, so where did--where was the project based?
ANDREATTA: Uh, we were in three--well in Hull, but they sent me to Antigua--
RYLKO-BAUER: --okay--
ANDREATTA: --Barbados--
RYLKO-BAUER: --okay. And--
ANDREATTA: --uh--
RYLKO-BAUER: A hardship posting (laughs)
00:13:00ANDREATTA: --yeah, and Saint Vincent.
RYLKO-BAUER: Okay. (laughs)
ANDREATTA: And so it was different islands in terms of the degree of agriculture
and where--RYLKO-BAUER: --okay--
ANDREATTA: --tourism fit in.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: But we all concentrated on the agriculture sector--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and water use.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm. So what--um, how did that expand your--um, you know, the,
the knowledge that you came in with from anthropology, um, doing this postdoc?ANDREATTA: Well, I had--I need to backtrack just a little bit. Um, while a
graduate student at the Mich--at Michigan State, I had the opportunity to get employed by USAID [United States Agency for International Development], and they sent me to Antigua.RYLKO-BAUER: To--as a graduate student?
ANDREATTA: As a graduate student--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --uh, to work in Antigua, um, but it was [unclear] job. um, I just
wa--hadn't finished my PhD--um, to look at pesticide use in--among cattle 00:14:00producers to help eradicate a tick from the island of Antigua--RYLKO-BAUER: --huh, um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --that was causing, um, a disease in the cattle that would give them
mange and kill them.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: Or they weren't sure it was causing that spongiform stuff in the brain.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: So they wanted to control that. And so I had pesticide ex--um,
training in, well, how to assess what the farmers were using to treat their cows.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: So I was working on that project. So I think working with farmers,
anthropology applied, and doing, uh, social impact assessment and environmental assessment from graduate school on to these other projects, I think that there was always a connection--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --environment, health, and--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --yeah, and food. (laughs)
RYLKO-BAUER: um-hm. Well, but also, you know, it seems to me, too, that you were
working with geographers--ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --as--
ANDREATTA: --interdisciplinary--
RYLKO-BAUER: --interdisciplinary--
ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --so that really, um [unclear]
ANDREATTA: --oh, and ag economics--
RYLKO-BAUER: Oh, okay--
ANDREATTA: --um-hm. yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: Yeah.
ANDREATTA: Um-hm.
RYLKO-BAUER: So I can see how that really fresh--fleshes out and broadened your--
00:15:00ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --experience and your knowledge base and--
ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --and theoretical base too because--
ANDREATTA: --absolutely--
RYLKO-BAUER: --every discipline comes at these things from a different perspective.
ANDREATTA: That's right.
RYLKO-BAUER: Yeah.
ANDREATTA: And I was still in graduate school when I had read, uh, Piers Blaikie
and, um, Harold Brookfield's work on political ecology of the environment. And that one really shaped, um, and then there were other people, uh, David Campbell and Jenny Olson who created something that I really like using. It's called the Kite, and it was a model where you had a kite that had political, economic, cultural, and environmental systems all connected in the shape of a kite.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And connected to a lower--uh, local, national, state, region, and global.
RYLKO-BAUER: Hmm.
ANDREATTA: And they said, "Well, all kites fly. It's got a braid and strand that
includes, uh, time and history, power, um, scale, like local, yeah, the three 00:16:00positions of the kite and space.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And that, that theoretical approach and visual connected is how I do
my research--RYLKO-BAUER: --okay--
ANDREATTA: --when during the field. And being in these different islands, you
could see space--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --exposure to pesticides or where do you plant trees or--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --who's doing what? Where does the power lie? Um, what's going on
with women versus men--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --class.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And I--yeah, yes. (laughs)
RYLKO-BAUER: Well, before we, um, switch to talking about your early work
experiences, um, when you were doing your, uh, doctoral studies, was it, um--? I mean obviously you, you know, you have a very strong applied orientation.ANDREATTA: Um-hm.
RYLKO-BAUER: And was it the teaching of people like Mike Whiteford--
ANDREATTA: --um-hm--
RYLKO-BAUER: --uh, or Scott Whiteford, both of them that really helped to shape
that in addition to, uh, you know, this other work that you were doing? 00:17:00I--obviously, the--working for AID gave you a, a sense of what it's like to work--ANDREATTA: --um-hm--
RYLKO-BAUER: --for someone else?
ANDREATTA: Um--
RYLKO-BAUER: --but, you know, because you never took any courses in applied.
ANDREATTA: Not at, not at--no. Yeah, with so--
RYLKO-BAUER: --so it's kind of interesting to know, you know--
ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --how people, um, who aren't in an applied program, how they, you
know, end up getting, um, this like applied, um, orientation and applied--you know, the knowledge to do work--ANDREATTA: --hmm--
RYLKO-BAUER: --and, and the desire to do work--
ANDREATTA: Um-hm. I think--
RYLKO-BAUER: --this way--
ANDREATTA: --I think Mike exposed me in a variety of different ways. You know,
you--to be a good eth--to do good applied work, you need to be a good ethnographer--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and so I think the kinds of courses that, that we were exposed to.
And he had a colleague that was working in Africa as an applied person, and I don't think I took many courses from him, uh, Mike Warren. And--um, but I, I 00:18:00think what we got from--at that time, there were only five faculty members at the ISU [Iowa State University]. Um, I think what we got or I left with from anthropology, I wanted it to be put to use.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: I wanted it to be applied to the real world, and I knew in my heart I
just could not go to a community, a country and just describe culture.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: I--that, to me, just felt so- you know--
RYLKO-BAUER: --like that's step one?
ANDREATTA: Step one--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah--
ANDREATTA: --and there should be a purpose to it. Otherwise, I'm wasting my time
and their time.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And I also felt that I, somehow, wanted to be invited and not impose
myself on a compu--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --community. So how did those kinds of things? So my networking
through USAID and other opportunities, what's out there? How do you make those kinds of connections so that people know your skillsets, your interest-- 00:19:00RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and that you want to help, you know, in some capacity?
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And I think in--you know, it's either coffee. Mike was a runner and
so, oftentimes, we'd just go run five miles.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: But you talk and run--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and so--and I knew he was the newsletter writer for--
RYLKO-BAUER: --for the--
ANDREATTA: --So--Society for Applied Anthropology.
RYLKO-BAUER: Yes. I remember that for a long time--
ANDREATTA: --for a long time.
RYLKO-BAUER: Yes.
ANDREATTA: And so I was learning all about this, and when I finished my thesis,
he says, "Well, now, you need to go to the meetings and present"--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and I did. My first meeting was with him, and my first night was
spending the night with Linda Whiteford.RYLKO-BAUER: So this was--uh, this was your first--
ANDREATTA: --meeting--
RYLKO-BAUER: --SfAA meeting?
ANDREATTA: Yeah, in Reno.
RYLKO-BAUER: And when was this?
ANDREATTA: Uh, probably, it was in like '86?
RYLKO-BAUER: Okay.
ANDREATTA: Yeah. Yeah, that, that was--
RYLKO-BAUER: --and you roomed with Linda?
ANDREATTA: Well, yeah, until her--(Rylko-Bauer laughs)--until her roommate, her
college, uh, college roommate came and--(Rylko-Bauer laughs)--and then I got another room, and I roomed with Carole Hill's students. They had--they actually 00:20:00had three students in a room, and I was the fourth.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And, um, that was my first meeting, and that really solidified and
changed everything. This is what I'm doing.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And changed my focus for how to ap--approach what I was going to do
at MSU.RYLKO-BAUER: Okay. Well, that's very interesting.
ANDREATTA: Um-hm.
RYLKO-BAUER: Yeah.
ANDREATTA: Yeah. And having come from, uh, uh--with a master's thesis, and, uh,
we were, we were all teachers to us, um, it advanced me at MSU--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --for being a teacher and a TA.
RYLKO-BAUER: Okay. Yes.
ANDREATTA: And, you know, over time, I did well and won the outstanding teaching award--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and so teaching always became a part of how I wanted to apply anthropology--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and make it useful--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --for people who might only take one class.
RYLKO-BAUER: Right, right.
ANDREATTA: And so how, how do you do this?
RYLKO-BAUER: --yes, um-hm.
ANDREATTA: Yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: So what was your, um, first postgraduate job, I mean, once you got
the--finished the postdoc?ANDREATTA: (sighs) Um, I went back to San Diego because I wasn't--I wasn't so
00:21:00smart. Um--(sighs)--uh, I didn't apply in time for tenure track. I waited little too long. So when I went to San Diego, which is where I had my post-MSU time and working in Mexico, um, I had more connections than living with my parents. (laughs)RYLKO-BAUER: Hmm, yeah.
ANDREATTA: So I went--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah--
ANDREATTA: --I went back there and, uh, became an adjunct to SDSU [San Diego
State University], and that, uh, allowed me letterhead, library privileges, and I could apply for nontenure.RYLKO-BAUER: Okay.
ANDREATTA: And then my first, um, first visiting assistant professor position
was at UNCG [University of North Carolina at Greensboro].RYLKO-BAUER: Okay and then from there on--
ANDREATTA: --then they--
RYLKO-BAUER: --it's all history--
ANDREATTA: --then they had to do a new search because I was only a one-year replacement--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and I--
00:22:00RYLKO-BAUER: --you came out--
ANDREATTA: --I, I--
RYLKO-BAUER: --on top--.
ANDREATTA: --came out, out on top and the rest is--
RYLKO-BAUER: --well, that's right--
ANDREATTA: --the rest is history.
RYLKO-BAUER: Yeah?
ANDREATTA: Yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: So interestingly enough, you--I mean from, from early on, you had
made this commitment to application--ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --and to having, um, research people, scholarly but also--
ANDREATTA: --useful--
RYLKO-BAUER: --pragmatic.
ANDREATTA: Yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: Yeah, and useful and--
ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um, and yet, at the same time, you also pursued an academic career.
ANDREATTA: Right, right.
RYLKO-BAUER: So you had this kind of two pa--parallel paths--
ANDREATTA: --that's right--
RYLKO-BAUER: --or intersecting paths--
ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --I guess woven paths--
ANDREATTA: --yes--
RYLKO-BAUER: --maybe the better way to put it.
ANDREATTA: And with another, uh, parallel where interest in international projects--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --as well as domestic.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm. Okay. So, um, so I know just looking over your, you know,
different writings and presentations that it's clear your research focus has been, um, in environmental and medical anthropology, and more specifically on food and food production-- 00:23:00ANDREATTA: --um-hm--
RYLKO-BAUER: --both, um, land--
ANDREATTA: --um-hm--
RYLKO-BAUER: --based and also, um, sea based--
ANDREATTA: --um-hm--
RYLKO-BAUER: --you know, water based--
ANDREATTA: --um-hm--
RYLKO-BAUER: --so fisheries--
ANDREATTA: --um-hm--
RYLKO-BAUER: --and also the importance of sustainability.
ANDREATTA: Yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: That's been, I think, a real--
ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --important thread. So when did--? Well, it's clear that this
started with your dissertation.ANDREATTA: Um-hm.
RYLKO-BAUER: But, you know, people oftentimes will shift from what they did.
They did their dissertation on this but then for various reasons, um, either they've had a longstanding interest in something or opportunities come up and then they, kind of, do a, you know, ninety-degree shift and go into something else. But in your case, there's been this real continuity.ANDREATTA: Um-hm.
RYLKO-BAUER: And so what, kind of, helped to--what, what helped to sustain that
and to move it forward for you?ANDREATTA: Well, I think sometimes maybe different projects could take on the
environment and different projects might take on health or food--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --um, and sometimes, they intersect quite beautifully, and you, kind
of, never know.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
00:24:00ANDREATTA: And, um, yeah, I'm not quite sure how they mo--because I don't always
feel like I'm doing the same thing and so, one, I'm not bored.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm. (Andreatta laughs) Right.
ANDREATTA: Um, but I think I'm making differences in different kinds of
communities or--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --um, yeah, I'm not--I'm not quite sure how to--I have had, what,
almost twenty-five years', thirty years' worth--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --of success in this.
RYLKO-BAUER: Well, let's, kind of, maybe rephrase it and say, so you arrived at,
um, UNCG, so University of North Carolina at Greensboro.ANDREATTA: Um-hm.
RYLKO-BAUER: And you start to teach--
ANDREATTA: --um-hm--
RYLKO-BAUER: --and then you're coming up with some kind of research that you
want to do. So what--was it an opportunity, or was it purposeful on your part that you were going to look because you--ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --really were committed to these areas of--
ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --work, and they also, you know, were areas of great interest to you?
00:25:00ANDREATTA: Right.
RYLKO-BAUER: So you specifically looked for projects that would, um--
ANDREATTA: --well I knew--
RYLKO-BAUER: --continue in those areas--
ANDREATTA: --I knew being an academic and being in a position where you had to
get tenure that you have to publish.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: So I'm coming off of two years of the postdoc and a lot of data, so
the easiest articles to get out quickly were the Caribbean experience.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: But then you're also looking for funding to do something.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And what I was not in the position to do right away was jump on
another project far, far away--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --when I needed to keep publishing and creating new classes.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: So I reached out to local agriculture extension and shared my
innocence. "I've never worked in local ag. I worked in tropical agriculture." (laughs)RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: "I know tropical trees and ways of working with cattle in that
scenario. Can you help me?" And I said, "I've really only worked with small farmers, with hand tools," and he said, "Oh, easy. We have small farmers, and the smaller farmers are the organic farmers. So why don't--?" And he told me all 00:26:00about community-supported agriculture and things. We became great friends, and we cowrote and co-did things.RYLKO-BAUER: What was his name?
ANDREATTA: Um, John O'Sullivan, and um, he opened the door, and he says, "Well,
I know the first farmers you should go meet, and they're in your area, and they are so organic, they hate plastic. And they're going to do everything without plastic." So I got to meet them. We went to their farm and then I went to another farmer a little bit further south, yeah, Alex and Betsy Hitt. And, uh, he thought it was--they had college degrees in agriculture and, uh, from--in, uh, North Carolina State University, and he thought it was the funniest thing. He says, "We've arrived as farmers to have an anthropologist"--(Rylko-Bauer laughs)--"sitting on our couch." (laughs)RYLKO-BAUER: Studying us, right.
ANDREATTA: Studying them. (both laugh) But then, then, you know I--then I
started working with farmers markets-- 00:27:00RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and making connections and helping small farmers connect to farmers
markets and then the--it became obvious, well, for these to succeed, the community has to be involved.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And then it was ripe for students to get involved and help--
RYLKO-BAUER: --okay--
ANDREATTA: --with the research.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: So, yeah, thanks for the question. That--
RYLKO-BAUER: --no, that's--
ANDREATTA: --that's--
RYLKO-BAUER: --and that's really interesting, you know, how--
ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --I mean we don't really talk about this.
ANDREATTA: Un-huh.
RYLKO-BAUER: You know, um, how we got into the work that we got into, I mean,
when we're at meetings or whatever--ANDREATTA: --um-hm. Yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --uh, formally. So I think it is actually very--and I think it's
good for students--ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --to, you know, read about this and or hear about it and--
ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --and realize that people take different paths.
ANDREATTA: And it's a--it was a different way to say, "Well, how do I make my
approach or style or interest and, in applied international work?" also useful to our local--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --community.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And at the time, we had a lot of first generational students that
might not have the opportunity to work overseas-- 00:28:00RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --in this capacity. So how do we create these opportunities for
students to even do it locally and make a difference--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --in their communities?
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And we spent a lot of time doing that and then bringing the students,
yeah, to the SfAA--RYLKO-BAUER: --hmm. Um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and presenting their work.
RYLKO-BAUER: So out of this came articles and--
ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --presenta--lots of presentations--
ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --and things like--
ANDREATTA: --for me--
RYLKO-BAUER: --that--
ANDREATTA: --and them.
RYLKO-BAUER: Yeah, yeah.
ANDREATTA: Yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: So as you were doing this, you know, work, which was, new to you--
ANDREATTA: --um-hm--
RYLKO-BAUER: --were there some anthropologists who, kind of, served as models?
Um, or did you, kind of, jump into this, um--(clears throat)ANDREATTA: Oh, I jumped into it, and I gave an presentation. Uh, well, my first
presentation was on the Caribbean with pesticides--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --use and, um, Tom Arcury and--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --Sara Quandt picked me up, and, and I got involved um, in their
sessions and, and they were--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --doing local agriculture--
00:29:00RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --in North Carolina with immigrant workers, migrant workers.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And I did just a little bit of work with them but nothing, nothing
major, and, and I said, "Well, you know, for me to get tenure, I need my projects--"RYLKO-BAUER: --yes, yeah--
ANDREATTA: --and so I politely, you know--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --kind of parted.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And, and that was really good for me.
RYLKO-BAUER: Sure.
ANDREATTA: And then I be--I think it was the farmers market project. And, uh, it
doesn't, it doesn't matter, but I presented on it and then Garry Stephenson who is, um, an anthropologist here at, at, uh, Oregon State University, he heard a presentation and then we started collaborating and working together and making sure--RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah--
ANDREATTA: --we had sessions.
RYLKO-BAUER: Okay.
ANDREATTA: And with Garry--for, oh, six, seven years, could be longer, Garry
organized the farm tours wherever we were.RYLKO-BAUER: Okay.
ANDREATTA: We had--we created a farm tour--
RYLKO-BAUER: --you mean at, at, at--
ANDREATTA: --at--
RYLKO-BAUER: --the meetings--
ANDREATTA: --SfAA--
00:30:00RYLKO-BAUER: --okay, yeah--
ANDREATTA: --Yeah. And so he was a huge, um, inspiration for me.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And then, uh, Garry and I worked with small farmers diversified and
the connections to farmers market, but met up with Don Stull and Kendall Thu and Mark Grey who worked with livestock.RYLKO-BAUER: Okay.
ANDREATTA: And--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah--
ANDREATTA: --and so--
RYLKO-BAUER: --another--
ANDREATTA: --the all--
RYLKO-BAUER: --aspect of farming--
ANDREATTA: --another aspect and--
RYLKO-BAUER: and of food production.
ANDREATTA: --CAFOs [concentrated animal feeding operation] and pollution--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and all sorts--
RYLKO-BAUER: --right--
ANDREATTA: --of things, impact on the environment.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And so it's all kind of comes full circle--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: And a number--we did a number of sessions together, and--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --that was all, you know, very supportive--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and encouraging.
RYLKO-BAUER: Hmm. So I think this--um, we're going to come back to maybe some
specific things that you've done at, uh, UNCG.ANDREATTA: Okay.
RYLKO-BAUER: But I think now I'd like to turn to your work at the--for the
Society of Applied Anthropology. And in looking through your CV, which I always 00:31:00do when I give--you know, do an interview, um--(clears throat)--with somebody, I was just amazed at--(clears throat)--your long involvement, which started in--from 1998 until today. And it went through, you know, a variety of committees and leadership pres--uh, positions all the way up to president of the Society. So I mean that's--I really would like to, kind of, talk a little bit about that really remarkable, remarkable history because that's, that's pretty amazing. I mean--ANDREATTA: --thank you--
RYLKO-BAUER: --I don't think there was a year when you weren't involved with the
SfAA, so--(Andreatta laughs). So you already said a--about your first meeting, which was in Las Vegas, and that it was an important meeting.ANDREATTA: --Re--Reno.
RYLKO-BAUER: In Reno, I mean.
ANDREATTA: Yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: In Reno--
ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah, Nevada. Um, so how did you get involved with the, um,
committees? Was--because that was your first involvement, I think, was with, um--ANDREATTA: Well, I think, way back. Um, uh, you know, I graduated from my MA in '86.
00:32:00RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And my first meeting was probably '96 after that, so--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --a bit of a gap, and Mike and I--Mike Whiteford and I always stayed
very good friends.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And when I came back into the country, um, and also, I had a job. So
my postdoc was two years--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and I finished in '95, and I started my first job '96--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --um, with--at UNCG and I was doing the COLEF in between.
RYLKO-BAUER: Hmm.
ANDREATTA: --and--oh, no, I got that wrong. Scratch that. (laughs) [unclear].
And then, um, when I came to the meeting, um, I saw Mike, and he goes, "Did you bring your running shoes?" (both laugh) and so Ed Liebow, Mike, and the running group were exploring, and I don't remember which, which meeting it was or--uh, I mean where we were, but that's our sightseeing. You get up early-- 00:33:00RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and you go run for an hour, hour and a half and, and come back. And
from that meeting, um, he just told me how to network and get connected.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: Scott was still there, and we met up, and then he--Mike was gracious
as ever and introduced me to all these people and then being in sessions, you're connecting--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And I think I went to two years' worth--it would be '96, '97, and
'98, so. I--I'm not sure how--what happened, but I was watch--observing leadership, and I said, "Sorry, Mike, the Board's old." (both laugh)RYLKO-BAUER: Needs young blood.
ANDREATTA: "You need some young people." (laughs) And I remember being at the
bar, and Tom May came up and said, "So I hear you're interested in being on a committee,"--(laughs)--and I said, "Where'd you hear that from?" and it was Mike. And--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --Mike really opened all these doors for me.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: Um, and I just owe a lot to Mike.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm. Well, I mean, I--you were on the finance committee,
00:34:00membership committee--ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --and several program committees?
ANDREATTA: So finance was Tom appointing me to work with Tom Arcury.
RYLKO-BAUER: Okay.
ANDREATTA: And so that was the connection, and I forget who else was there, but
Tom Arcury--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --was chair.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: Yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: And the legacy co--more recently, the legacy committee--
ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --the policy committee and the advisory board podcast project, and
I've been in several--ANDREATTA: --right--
RYLKO-BAUER: --of the podcast sessions, and they've been really great this time.
Yeah. So, um, and then also Founders Endowment.ANDREATTA: Um-hm.
RYLKO-BAUER: So I mean--(laughs)--you've had your finger in every--
ANDREATTA: --oh--
RYLKO-BAUER: --pie.
ANDREATTA: And, and then been a judge for posters. This is my--
RYLKO-BAUER: --oh--
ANDREATTA: --first year--
RYLKO-BAUER: --okay--
ANDREATTA: --not judging in--
RYLKO-BAUER: --oh, really--
ANDREATTA: --I don't know how many years.
RYLKO-BAUER: Okay.
ANDREATTA: And I, I asked Trish, you know, "Should we rotate me off?" She goes,
"Don Stull was saying the same thing, use me if needed," but--RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah--
ANDREATTA: --uh, probably close ten years.
RYLKO-BAUER: Okay. So, um, how did you--? Well you, obviously, went step by step--
00:35:00ANDREATTA: --yeah, so--
RYLKO-BAUER: --because you became an executive board member--
ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --first.
ANDREATTA: So I was finance committee and then, um, from that, nominations
reached out and said, "Would you consider running for the Board?"RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: "And we need, you know, your bio and," and so on, so I did. And I,
um, and I--um, to my amazement, uh, and delight, that I was elected a Board member--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And I served there probably a term and then--or two and then ran for secretary--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and then that, that happened.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: Um, and then I was put on--uh, asked again via nominations to run for
president. And, well, to share a little more, um, I declined.RYLKO-BAUER: Oh, really? (laughs)
ANDREATTA: Uh, and I, I, um, I said, "Thank you very much. I, um, I, I, I don't
00:36:00think that would be a good idea." And not even a month later, I--there was a time delay--I answered the phone when it rang, and there was Tom May, and he said, "I hear you're not running." (laughs) He said, "Would you please reconsider?" and I did, and, you know, I guess that part's history.RYLKO-BAUER: So, yeah, you got elected in 2006?
ANDREATTA: Yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: And then you served from 2007 to 2009?
ANDREATTA: Yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And at that time and I'm not sure if it's still done, but they made
a, a very good--uh, they had a good design where it was male, female every, every other year.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And so I was--I had good training from Linda Wood--Whiteford and--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --Don Stull, um, just sharing the time and I--being on the Board for
so many years prior to becoming president, you could see the roles and responsibilities.RYLKO-BAUER: Well, you know how it worked.
ANDREATTA: That's right--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah.
ANDREATTA: Yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: Yeah.
ANDREATTA: And having been secretary, you really knew how it worked--
RYLKO-BAUER: --that's true. Yeah. Yeah, so that was--uh, that's actually a
really good model for--you know, the ideal in a way-- 00:37:00ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --for president of the Society--
ANDREATTA: --yeah. And probably different--um, you know, the--I'm not quite sure
when they've made--they--uh, they had a student rep on there and that was a really good thing.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: I didn't--wasn't a student rep, but I was--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --a very young board member--(laughs)--
RYLKO-BAUER: --right--
ANDREATTA: --coming in as an assistant--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --professor. But I think that helps provide insight into--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --what, what are the different kinds of needs of people at different
levels of their career.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm. Well, when you think back on those, you know, two years,
well, and, and also, I mean, as a president-elect and a past president, because in the SfAA, it's actually a fairly long term, you know--ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --four years. Um, what do you feel are some of the achievements
that you, you know, would, would like to be remembered for?ANDREATTA: Well, small, quiet ones. (laughs)
RYLKO-BAUER: Those are sometimes the most--
00:38:00ANDREATTA: --the, the--
RYLKO-BAUER: --important ones.
ANDREATTA: Yeah. That--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah--
ANDREATTA: --I think that have made--uh, had an impact. Um, we went through some
transitions to be a little bit more efficient with our agendas. Our meetings had been close to ten hours long and very exhausting. And, um, under previous leadership, we made, um, consent agendas, that, you know, helped expedite our meetings, but we lost a little bit of continuity with the committees. So one of the things I did was liaison directly with committee chairs and committee members to get--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --back on board, what are they doing and interest and learned very
early on that they needed more connection with the Board.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And I said, "That's an easy fix," and asked that all the Board
members pick a committee and be the liaison. And--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --I think, uh, direct charge, direct communication just help made,
um, last--more lasting, um, co--connection and purpose to why-- 00:39:00RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --does this particular committee exist.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: The other thing that I really wanted to complete were the books, but
we called them booklets at the time that were, um, sort of the expectations of what each committee was supposed to--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --do, what is their charge.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And at--um, they weren't quite finished during my presidency. Uh, and
they've been chipped away because there's so many committees. But to get that done, so that, um, people knew their charge, roles--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and responsibilities, uh, and that they, they had a mission.
RYLKO-BAUER: And that's very important. Otherwise--
ANDREATTA: --um-hm--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um, you're kind of starting from--
ANDREATTA: --from scratch--
RYLKO-BAUER: --scratch, uh--
ANDREATTA: --every time--
RYLKO-BAUER: --every time.
ANDREATTA: Yeah. And when there's--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah--
ANDREATTA: --con--there's change--
RYLKO-BAUER: --there's no--
ANDREATTA: --continuity--
RYLKO-BAUER: --right--
ANDREATTA: --yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: There's no institutional memory.
ANDREATTA: --memory. No.
RYLKO-BAUER: -yeah.
ANDREATTA: Yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: Yeah.
ANDREATTA: And then the other thing, I think, that we did was we formalized, um,
our accessibility to the meetings. We had what, um, was known informally as an informal way to reach out to our colleagues if they needed assistance. Um, but 00:40:00now, given things--how things were changing, we needed to step up and have, um, formal arrangements made so that if people, uh, were challenged in certain kinds of ways--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --if they needed assistance that they could alert the society to know
how their needs could be met.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And so that took a little bit of discussion.
RYLKO-BAUER: Yeah.
ANDREATTA: We needed to work with the Board and the treasurer in terms of our
limits, in terms of our capacity, um, to what we could provide.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: But that it needed to be recognized, you know, we have these options--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and that everybody's entitled to equal accessment, accessment to
the to--or access to the meetings.RYLKO-BAUER: So how is that formalized now it--within the--
ANDREATTA: --uh, when you--
RYLKO-BAUER: --Society----------(??)--
ANDREATTA: --register--when you register, you can spell out your needs of what--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --you need and you can check, check the boxes.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: So it's on the application forms. It should be on the website--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and then accommodations would, would be made.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm. And--
ANDREATTA: --and before, it was just by word of mouth--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and if you need something or assistance moving, yeah, and--
00:41:00RYLKO-BAUER: --does the Society have a statement--
ANDREATTA: --um-hm--
RYLKO-BAUER: --uh, about, um, the, you know, what they're supposed to do--
ANDREATTA: --yes--
RYLKO-BAUER: --in terms of people with disabilities--
ANDREATTA: Yes.
RYLKO-BAUER: --and other needs--
ANDREATTA: --the, the Society does, and it's now not just the hotel's responsibility.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: It's also the Society's.
RYLKO-BAUER: Okay. Well--and that's an important achievement--
ANDREATTA: --um-hm--
RYLKO-BAUER: --very important.
ANDREATTA: Um-hm.
RYLKO-BAUER: Yeah. Um, what were some of the -- were there some other issues
during the time that you were--you know, that had to do with, um, either changes within the discipline or political changes, you know, that somehow, the Society had to, uh, address or that, that impacted the Society just in some, some sense? And I'm not trying to put you on the spot. You know, if you can't think of anything, that's fine, but, um--ANDREATTA: --this might be a good time for a bathroom break.
00:42:00RYLKO-BAUER: Okay. I think we'll pause for a moment, and we would be back shortly.
[Pause in recording.]
RYLKO-BAUER: Okay.
ANDREATTA: That's a--that's a real interesting question. Um, just take a moment--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --to think about, um, 2007--
RYLKO-BAUER: --okay--
ANDREATTA: --2008. If my memory recalls correctly, 2008 is when we had an
economic crash. And we would have been in Tampa, and we did see a little bit of a downturn in terms of attendance. And I know our discussions in the Board were very much, uh, about future meetings because the society is so dependent on the success of the meeting for its financial, um, stability. Um, it's also a time when we were--many of us were very excited. Barack Obama gets, uh, inaugurated--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and we're anticipating great changes, and what would be the impact,
00:43:00uh, for the Society down the future. And if you recall, um, his mother was an anthropologist--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and so--
RYLKO-BAUER: --right--
ANDREATTA: --we were able to bring that into our meetings, at future meetings as
well, um, which was also very exciting for--and we could, in a different way, put anthropology and applied anthropology--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --on the map.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And so that, that was really, uh, an, um, uh, a, a wonderful
opportunity. But I, I think how, how to weather and be very thoughtful about, you know, where does the Society hold its meetings, what's, um, what's its role, what's its connections to the communities, to the towns, to the cities. And I think those conversations really changed, and we brought Tuesday day for being able to do local.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And that started in the Santa Fe meeting in 2007. And we did a whole
day really celebrating what was going on into the community, and I think from the success of that meeting, it was our second time back in a short time-- 00:44:00RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm, and----------(??)--
ANDREATTA: --and every four years, I think, we're coming back to New Mexico--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --because of what we're able to do in the community. Attendance is wonderful--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --um
RYLKO-BAUER: --it's a great place to--people like to go there.
ANDREATTA: And people like to go--
RYLKO-BAUER: --right--
ANDREATTA: --there--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and so I, I think, uh, with the Board's blessing, thinking about
and working with, uh, PMA [Professional Management Associates], thinking about where we go and the willingness people are, uh, to step up to be the program chair and work with the local areas about, you know, how to--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --put together an exciting meeting.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: Um, that's the bread and butter for the Society.
RYLKO-BAUER: I think it's actually very, um, very important that the Society connects--
ANDREATTA: --with local--
RYLKO-BAUER: --with the local--
ANDREATTA: --the local, absolutely--
RYLKO-BAUER: --community. Yeah.
ANDREATTA: Yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: Yeah. Who were some of the people that you were working with during
the--your presidency?ANDREATTA: Um, I know I had a lot of conversations with John van Willigen, um,
00:45:00just about applied, history--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --of applied. Um, very curious, um, from, you know, reading his book,
using his book, how its grown, how it's expanded--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and we are close to three thousand in membership, but it's changed
over the years and taken on new roles and responsibilities, but we've partnered with so many other groups over the years.RYLKO-BAUER: That's true.
ANDREATTA: And, and keeping that an active, dynamic part of the agenda--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --for the Society. And sometimes, we partner with different groups to
combine organizations and people stay. But we've been--you know, I'm not sure we should get bigger than--more bigger than three thousand. But the most exciting thing and proud thing that the Society should feel is that say we're three-thousand-members strong, we get close to two thousand or more coming to our meetings.RYLKO-BAUER: That's remarkable, um--
ANDREATTA: --and when you think about, you know, percentagewise walk on, so that
community engagement, the daily walk--walk-ins that come in and say, "I'm just 00:46:00registering for the day,"--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --that is all fantastic.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And I also appreciate, you know, working with graduate students and
carrying them on for a legacy.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm. Sure.
ANDREATTA: Yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: No, very important, yeah.
ANDREATTA: Yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: Yeah. So just to, kind of, uh, conclude this part of our
conversation, what advice would you give to a newly elected president of the Society?ANDREATTA: Oh--(clears throat)--work very closely with your executive director,
and be in touch, you know, maybe weekly but, you know, more than monthly--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --so that you know what's going on and they know what's going on with
the committees. Um, there might be times when you need to reach out to the program chair and just be--RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah--
ANDREATTA: --in the loop. Um, when you're leading the Board me--Board, you, kind
of, need to know what's going on behind the scenes.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And so the only way that you know what's going behind the scenes is
to stay active and involved. 00:47:00RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: Uh--
RYLKO-BAUER: --well, I can imagine that your, um, decision to really interact
with all of the committee chairs and find out what's going on with each committee must have been really helpful, too, to give you this really overall sense of, um, where the Society is going?ANDREATTA: Absolutely. Uh, and, and, and needing to know for myself and not, um,
not just reading about it--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --or be do--told last minute.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: Yeah. And so some--sometimes some of the things that they're working
on take a little time or sometimes need early encouragement to get--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --going. (laughs)
RYLKO-BAUER: um-hm.
ANDREATTA: Um, and so I, I--yeah, I think that's a good, uh, a good way to
inform and empower one's self.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm. Was there anything else that pops into your mind before we
switch over to your work, um, at UNCG? I'll give you a moment here to-- 00:48:00ANDREATTA: --okay--
RYLKO-BAUER: --uh, to think about that question.
[Pause in recording.]
ANDREATTA: Can I--can I add, um--
RYLKO-BAUER: --go ahead.
ANDREATTA: Can--I, I, I'd like to actually add, um, mention just some other
people that were really in--instrumental beyond John van Willigen--RYLKO-BAUER: --oh, sure--
ANDREATTA: --yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: --no, that's great, yes.
ANDREATTA: Yeah. Um, a good friend that I was on the Board with Nancy Parezo.
And, um, Nancy is just a, a wonderful person in, in so many capacities and supportive. And--(clears throat)--she gave me a turtle. And she said--gave me a story about a turtle who said, um, that this was her spirit guide--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and, and it was--that guide was given to her by one of her
informants, she works with Native Americans in Arizona.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And she thought, um--(clears throat)--that the turtle would be a
wonderful spirit guide for me. 00:49:00RYLKO-BAUER: Hmm.
ANDREATTA: I could be hard on the outside and loving and mushy in the middle.
RYLKO-BAUER: (laughs) That's a great--
ANDREATTA: --and I've carried--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah--
ANDREATTA: --turtle--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah.
ANDREATTA: --I've actually--when I was president and had her turtle, I wore that
turtle very faithfully. In all my challenging moments that the turtle is my, my guide.RYLKO-BAUER: So describe the turtle for us.
ANDREATTA: The turtle is a beautiful, um, sterling silver pin, and on the top of
it in the center of, it has a gorgeous piece of turquoise. And--RYLKO-BAUER: --that's wonderful.
ANDREATTA: Yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: And I'm sure I've seen it. I can't visualize it in my mind's eye--
ANDREATTA: --no, I should have worn it today--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yes, that's right, that's right. Yeah.
ANDREATTA: --yeah. (Rylko-Bauer laughs) And then, uh, on the Board the treasurer
was Diane Austin.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And she was a phenomenal treasurer for us and helped really clean up,
shape up, and best of all, inform us how to read a spreadsheet on the budget.RYLKO-BAUER: (laughs) Okay, so--
ANDREATTA: --so--(laughs)
RYLKO-BAUER: --you're not just nodding your head, but you have--
ANDREATTA: --no, no--
RYLKO-BAUER: --no clue--
ANDREATTA: --no, because the Board is responsible for the budget and votes on
00:50:00the budget, so how are these allocations being made? So Diane was very, uh, very good in that. And then, um, Merrill Eisenberg, uh, also another Board member and--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --later became--
RYLKO-BAUER: --the--
ANDREATTA: --the president--
RYLKO-BAUER: --president. Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And so we overlapped in time--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and again, having, having those two women there. And then Robert
Rubinstein who wasn't on the Board at the time but was also just a good colleague, good egg and--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and, uh, I got him involved in some of the policy work--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and, uh, and his project for SAR [School for Advanced Research]--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and so all of these things, you know, fostered friendship--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and support. And then Tim Wallace took over for Mike Whiteford to
do the newsletter.RYLKO-BAUER: And he is a great editor too--
ANDREATTA: --and, and he changed us from a paper piece--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and Tim Wallace put us online.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm. Dragged you into the twentieth--
ANDREATTA: --in the twentieth, twentieth--
RYLKO-BAUER: --century--
ANDREATTA: --century and--(Rylko-Bauer laughs)--and, yeah, and into twenty-first--
RYLKO-BAUER: --first, yeah.
ANDREATTA: Yeah. So, um, you know, I had really good people, mentors--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --that, uh, uh, really helped, I think, lead the d--the Society in
00:51:00different directions--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and we grew and--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --we'll continue to do that.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: So thanks for allowing me to go backwards.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And you had asked a question, um, about, you know, what else? Uh, I
would inform the execu--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --uh, a new president and--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --I would say, tap into the young people, reach out to--
RYLKO-BAUER: --oh, excellent.--
ANDREATTA: --reach out to and make sure you're there for the graduate or
student, um, meetings, introduce yourself. Um, this is purely serendipity. I went to the, I think, 2007 meeting, introduced myself to the graduate students. The [student] president then was, uh, Cassandra Workman. Just last week, we hired her in our department--RYLKO-BAUER: --really--
ANDREATTA: --to be, uh, a new colleague in applied--(Rylko-Bauer
laughs)--anthropology. (laughs) And part of the interview, I looked up and I said, "Huh, this is familiar," and I looked up the year, and that was something 00:52:00that we were able--RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah.
ANDREATTA: --to connect--
RYLKO-BAUER: --that you----------(??)--
ANDREATTA: --so you never know networking--
RYLKO-BAUER: --no, no--
ANDREATTA: --and connections--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --stuff comes around--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and so to be able to, uh, you know, have all of these friendships
over these--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --many years. They come and go--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and then they come back and surprise you.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: Um, so tapping into our, our, our younger people and, um, and new,
new, uh, assistant or new PAs, practicing people and reaching out.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And then we are, uh, uh, a group that is not all anthropologists and
might be do--working in other areas--RYLKO-BAUER: --yes--
ANDREATTA: --how to get them involved and retain their interest and their
support and getting them involved in leadership.RYLKO-BAUER: You're talking about, uh, geographers, sociologists--
ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --psychologists, people. Because it is--
ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --an interdisciplinary--
ANDREATTA: --an interdisciplinary, yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: I think that, you know, the point that you made if I can
add--(clears throat)--about reaching out to students is really important because I have heard many people say that they felt--feel more comfortable coming to the 00:53:00SfAA meetings than the AAA [American Anthropological Association] meetings.ANDREATTA: Absolutely.
RYLKO-BAUER: And part of the reason is that they feel that, as students, they're
on an equal footing.ANDREATTA: That's right.
RYLKO-BAUER: And I think at the AAA, one, it's so very big--
ANDREATTA: --um-hm--
RYLKO-BAUER: --but also, I think that--I think the AAA is really doing more now--
ANDREATTA: --um-hm--
RYLKO-BAUER: --to reach out.
ANDREATTA: Um-hm.
RYLKO-BAUER: But I think the students, oftentimes, will feel lost, you know?
ANDREATTA: Yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: And, and overlooked.
ANDREATTA: Right.
RYLKO-BAUER: And when you feel invisible, you don't feel welcome.
ANDREATTA: Um-hm. And, and--
RYLKO-BAUER: --so--
ANDREATTA: --and we also have the opportunity for, uh, the grad students to
bring, uh, the grad programs in applied to se--sort of set up the booths and--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and recruit. And at UNCG, we're just an undergraduate, uh, program.
RYLKO-BAUER: Okay.
ANDREATTA: And so I was bringing grad--undergraduate students, and I said, "Now,
you go look and see"--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --what's available. Introduce yourselves and see"--
RYLKO-BAUER: --hmm--
ANDREATTA: --where you might fit and consider applying.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And that was, you know, a wonderful opportunity. So we're not just
looking at graduate students, we are also, uh, encouraging and professionalizing 00:54:00our undergraduates--RYLKO-BAUER: --graduate--
ANDREATTA: --students--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --to consider how to apply anthropology--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --to the real world or how to apply social science to the real world
where people, people come first. (laughs)RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm. Yeah.
ANDREATTA: And, and I think that's what attracts a lot of people here who are
trying to make a difference.RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --from the bottom up.
RYLKO-BAUER: um-hm. I think this is a good, kind of, segue to your work at UNCG.
And you, you talked a little bit about teaching. I don't know if you want to, um, add anything more? Uh, I mean you teach a variety of courses--ANDREATTA: --um-hm. Um-hm. Yeah. Um, well, I began teaching intro and really--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --love it, and I got that from Mike Whiteford. Uh, he's a--uh, if
you're going to get people hooked, you know, that's where you do it.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: Right? Get them in from the intro and that was great advice.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And then I developed classes in applied anthropology, environmental
anthropology, uh, food and culture. It's more food and agriculture. 00:55:00RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: (laughs) Um, what's my other one? Oh, and I teach methods.
RYLKO-BAUER: And the medical too.
ANDREATTA: And the medical anthropology--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --absolutely. And so I think applied runs through everything, and,
um, I believe so much in teaching and applied. Uh, I had met Gary Ferraro at the AAA meetings over a number of years, and it's probably again 2008 [it was actually 2006].RYLKO-BAUER: And Gary Ferraro is--
ANDREATTA: --coming to that. Gary Ferraro is an author of a textbook called
Cultural Anthropology from an Applied Perspective [Cultural Anthropology: An Applied Perspective], and I'd never used that. I had used other books, but he--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --said, "You know, I'm en--I'm encouraged, uh, by what you do, and
I'm in need of, uh, a coauthor."RYLKO-BAUER: Oh.
ANDREATTA: And so I met his publisher, uh--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --editor at Cengage, and we met. Our birthdays in February, she loves
purple, and wears amethyst. (Rylko-Bauer laughs) We're all good. So she said, 00:56:00"I'd like to--you to send me some samples of your writing," which I did, and then she said, "Okay, I'd like you to be Gary's cowriter--coauthor."RYLKO-BAUER: Wonderful.
ANDREATTA: And--
RYLKO-BAUER: --so this was--
ANDREATTA: --this is--
RYLKO-BAUER: --the textbook had already existed?
ANDREATTA: Yes, editions one through six.
RYLKO-BAUER: Okay.
ANDREATTA: And then, uh--
RYLKO-BAUER: --this one?
ANDREATTA: That's seven.
RYLKO-BAUER: That's when you came on?
ANDREATTA: Yes. (Rylko-Bauer clears throat) And then I was, uh, asked to write a chapter.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And then I said, "Well, can I look at some of the others?" and she
said, "Sure," so I got to edit all sixteen chapters.RYLKO-BAUER: Okay.
ANDREATTA: And my name went [unclear] right next to Gary's--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and then I've been--uh, the deal was to take on four chapters every
edition, and so now--RYLKO-BAUER: --oh, and--
ANDREATTA: --I'm writing--
RYLKO-BAUER: --revise them, you mean?
ANDREATTA: Yes.
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah and or--
ANDREATTA: --and now--
RYLKO-BAUER: --okay--
ANDREATTA: --I'm the writer for the textbook, although--
RYLKO-BAUER: --and it's in the eleventh edition. I mean that's--
ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --amazing.
ANDREATTA: Yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: That's very successful.
ANDREATTA: Yes.
RYLKO-BAUER: So what do you--um, it must be used by people not just in
00:57:00anthropology, I would think--ANDREATTA: --oh--
RYLKO-BAUER: --or what's your sense--
ANDREATTA: --no, I, I, I think that we're probably the only book on the market
that has an applied perspective.RYLKO-BAUER: Oh, you mean that, that focuses on--? So versus being like it?
Because there--ANDREATTA: --it does--
RYLKO-BAUER: --are some applied textbooks, but you're talking about focusing on
cultural anthropology but with an applied perspective.ANDREATTA: Absolutely.
RYLKO-BAUER: Okay.
ANDREATTA: And I would still--
RYLKO-BAUER: --right--
ANDREATTA: --think after all of these years, we're the only textbook--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --that does that--
RYLKO-BAUER: --so--
ANDREATTA: --successfully--
RYLKO-BAUER: --it's just like for an intro course?
ANDREATTA: Absolutely.
RYLKO-BAUER: Okay.
ANDREATTA: Yeah. And we work well, and it had had been probably supportive for
community colleges.RYLKO-BAUER: Okay.
ANDREATTA: So we're, we're used--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --um, well, and, um, I think Gary and I complemented one another, his
art and business--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and then then I was--
RYLKO-BAUER: --okay--
ANDREATTA: --environment, health, and, you know, all these--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --other things, uh, and so it really worked. And so--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --it's a book that, um, it's quite interdisciplinary for an intro
00:58:00course. I think we hit on thirty-six different, uh, occupations of where you can take anthropology to--RYLKO-BAUER: --hmm-
ANDREATTA: --and have case studies.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --uh, for things, so I hope there's a twelfth edition coming.
RYLKO-BAUER: Yes, that's--so when was the eleventh edition?
ANDREATTA: Uh, I think we are copy edit--or 2017--
RYLKO-BAUER: --okay--
ANDREATTA: --so we're due.
RYLKO-BAUER: Okay. Well, that's exciting. So--
ANDREATTA: --um-hm--
RYLKO-BAUER: --there's another textbook that you coauthored or--
ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --a book, Elements--.
ANDREATTA: It's a book--
RYLKO-BAUER: --of Culture.
ANDREATTA: Yeah. Elements of Culture, um, Cengage, not in their wisest business
decision, had all their authors who did large books do mini books, condensed versions, and sold them cheaper. So I was put first author, and I had to take all the chapters and make them smaller.RYLKO-BAUER: Hmm.
ANDREATTA: And I think they lost money and so that one was just a one-off one edition.
RYLKO-BAUER: Okay.
ANDREATTA: Yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: Okay. That's interesting. I wonder what their rationale was?
00:59:00ANDREATTA: Giving people choice.
RYLKO-BAUER: Okay.
ANDREATTA: You know, did you want a bigger book?
RYLKO-BAUER: Okay.
ANDREATTA: Or some departments, they teach semesters and they needed sixteen chapters--
RYLKO-BAUER: --quarters--
ANDREATTA: --and other, others on quarters, so we had to--
RYLKO-BAUER: --right--
ANDREATTA: --reduce it to ten--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah. Um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --so.
RYLKO-BAUER: Okay. Well, I know that, um, in looking at your work and also
talking with you that, um, you are very, very, um, passionate about and engaged with, um, a project at UNCG, which are the community gardens.ANDREATTA: Um-hm.
RYLKO-BAUER: And so--and you're also codirector of that project.
ANDREATTA: Um-hm.
RYLKO-BAUER: And so I'd like you to talk about that a little bit.
ANDREATTA: Um-hm. Well--(sighs)--a number of years ago, yeah, in the early
2000s, I had approached our university for using space to grow a garden, and 01:00:00they said, "No, we can't do it."RYLKO-BAUER: And what made you want to do that?
ANDREATTA: Um, I just--I've always enjoyed gardening. We have green space. Our
campus has--had a lot of green space, and it once had a Victory Garden for World War I--RYLKO-BAUER: --okay.
ANDREATTA: --and a Victory Garden for World War II. We had all these
fruit-bearing trees here and there. Why not, you know, use this and provide students or whoever the opportunity to grow or learn to grow?RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And so that was my, my thinking. Um, there were some faculty
members--I was an untenured professor--we wrote a white paper on how a garden would fit into sustainability for--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --our campus before it--that was the buzzword. Um, and then, uh, it
went nowhere. So, in 2009, I had students in two different classes take on projects, how would a community garden benefit UNCG from a student's perspective.RYLKO-BAUER: Hmm.
ANDREATTA: And I had a group do it, and they broke it down and then an
01:01:00individual in the environmental anthropology class did it. And I took these two assignments to administration, and I said, "I'm not asking. Students are asking." (laughs)RYLKO-BAUER: --asking. Smart. Yeah.
ANDREATTA: How, how would a community garden at UNCG work? And so, lo and
behold, we get another budget crisis, and they said, "We'll give you the space. Depending on where you go, we'll give you the water, and that's all." I said, "I can work with that." And, uh, we found space, a very nice space, and we built, uh, fifty raised beds that are four by eight. And, uh, I and the codirector who is associate, uh, director for Residence Life who could tap into students--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and email them, uh, Guy Sanders, he and I, uh, helped build these
things and create re--relationships with different faculties. We have-- 01:02:00RYLKO-BAUER: --hmm--
ANDREATTA: --the interior ar--architecture students design what the garden would
look like.RYLKO-BAUER: Okay.
ANDREATTA: They resourced where we would buy, um, previously used wood from old
barns and then their studio put together how to, uh, build all these things and build benches and so--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --we had so much campus involvement. And we've been there nine and a
half years and have been growing. Uh, well, over two thousand students have participated--RYLKO-BAUER: --participated.
ANDREATTA: And we've had to rebuild the beds three times, so I make sure women
can, uh, use, um, power tools.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: Uh, and now, the city provides our dirt and woodchips.
RYLKO-BAUER: Oh.
ANDREATTA: The city has come to campus.
RYLKO-BAUER: Okay.
ANDREATTA: And--
RYLKO-BAUER: --so it's a real--you--it's, in a way, a university engagement
of--with the community?ANDREATTA: Absolutely.
RYLKO-BAUER: Yeah.
ANDREATTA: And then alumni, um, most recent donation just helped two, two times
actually --for building the bed--provide the wood--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --or the expertise or the tools and so we've got all of this happening--
01:03:00RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --um, with lovely networking and connections.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: Um--
RYLKO-BAUER: --so do people, um, choose a particular bed and--
ANDREATTA: --they ren--
RYLKO-BAUER: --or how does that work--
ANDREATTA: --they rent a bed--
RYLKO-BAUER: --with the----------(??)
ANDREATTA: --for ten dollars--
RYLKO-BAUER: --okay--
ANDREATTA: --a semester. And when I really need coverage is over the summer, and
I said, "If you use it from spring through December, you can have it for twenty dollars," and then I provide the tools, the water, um, and try and keep it neat and mowed around them--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and they get to work with whatever they want inside. We keep it
organic. And people's plots who they don't tend over the summer and all the ones that I take for student teaching, um, the wo--the food, we'll harvest and share who's ever working that day. And then I have summer workers and then they'll take what they need or want to share out or we make donations to food banks--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and um, women's shelters and the elder shelters.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm. Well, I've--and you, you, um, wrote an article about this--
01:04:00ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --in the Culture, Agriculture, Food and Environment in--
ANDREATTA: --yes--
RYLKO-BAUER: --in 2015. So I read that, and I remember reading that the, the
local, the kitchen at the university had--ANDREATTA: --um-hm--
RYLKO-BAUER: --several plots.
ANDREATTA: They had five plots--
RYLKO-BAUER: --and they actually did the growing?
ANDREATTA: They grew, they harvested and then they--
RYLKO-BAUER: --and then they used it--
ANDREATTA: --and--
RYLKO-BAUER: --in the--in the--
ANDREATTA: --in the catering for the chancellor.
RYLKO-BAUER: Oh, wow. (Andreatta laughs) That's--
ANDREATTA: --and they would label it. (laughs)
RYLKO-BAUER: That's great.
ANDREATTA: Yeah, yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah.
ANDREATTA: That, that was really--
RYLKO-BAUER: --so you had different, di--somebody else at the library--
ANDREATTA: --you know, there's growing--they're growing flowers in a bed and
then they were doing tea in another bed, so they could beautify their, um, reception area in the library--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --with, uh, flowers and then they wanted tea to drink and so they
were growing--RYLKO-BAUER: --so they're growing tea--
ANDREATTA: --tea, tea tea and herbs and then--
RYLKO-BAUER: --okay--
ANDREATTA: --they moved into some tomatoes but always had other little--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
RYLKO-BAUER: --plants there.
RYLKO-BAUER: And then someone else is growing it for a ho--as flowers for
01:05:00hospice. Yes?ANDREATTA: Yes.
RYLKO-BAUER: So it's very interesting and then students grow it for themselves?
ANDREATTA: For themselves and, and--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah--
ANDREATTA: --so--
RYLKO-BAUER: --and so how do you use it in your teaching?
ANDREATTA: Oh, gosh. (sighs) Well, in teaching, um, for some classes and not
regularly, uh, I would ask that it be part of the grade and the experience and then others I would encourage it would be volunteer. Um, in a different way, what, co-curricular teaching, so no grade, no class. I--um, I'm the liaison or the advisor for the student garden club.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And we meet every Wednesday from 5:15 and depending on the light 6:15
or eight. (laughs)RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And we're out there, and I'm teaching about growing.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And we can get anywhere from ten to twenty-five students every--
RYLKO-BAUER: --okay--
ANDREATTA: --Wednesday coming out wanting to be one with one another. Even on
rainy days, we're inside and we're taking single-use plastic bags and making plarn, and we're, uh, crocheting bedrolls for the homeless.RYLKO-BAUER: Oh, really?
ANDREATTA: And the students want to be together, and, um, the president and our
01:06:00treasurer put together a slide show from the previous years of all we're farming--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and they're teaching about insects, what they've learned, um, and--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and companion growing.
RYLKO-BAUER: So the students are--
ANDREATTA: --are doing it--
RYLKO-BAUER: --acting as teaching--
ANDREATTA: --that's right--
RYLKO-BAUER: --as teachers too?
ANDREATTA: Yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: Okay.
ANDREATTA: And then another student, uh, was bringing in all of her accoutrement
for what she wants to do for zero or zero waste life.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And so we ha--I bring farmers in. Um, we've had, um, evenings where
international students would talk about food and culture and then we bring--RYLKO-BAUER: --okay--
ANDREATTA: --food to share.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And then we held a potluck. We've been holding potlucks for
Thanksgiving, and last year, twenty-three students showed up.RYLKO-BAUER: Wow.
ANDREATTA: And we laid out a table in the classroom--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and without cellphones except for taking selfies and, um, groups
shots, we had conversations for two hours with food.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm, which is also an important lesson.
ANDREATTA: Yes.
RYLKO-BAUER: So what do you think the students are learning from this? I mean
this is kind of a--unless you incorp--when you incorporate in the class, you 01:07:00know, for a--ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --a project or a--but otherwise, it is an extracurricular activity.
ANDREATTA: Yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: But, um, you're obviously--uh, uh, other than just the pleasure
that you get from the farming and stuff, which makes lots of sense--ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um, you're seeing this is having an impact on the students--
ANDREATTA: --there are students who will say--
RYLKO-BAUER: --I'm assuming--
ANDREATTA: --they just love coming down to weed. They need to be outside, and
that just repetitive. And then--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --I can tell when they're stressed. Their heads are so close
together, I know to back away. (laughs) And so they're, they are doing whatever they need to be with one another, relax, recharge--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and, and, you know, tend to, tend to weeding.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: I think they're getting those kinds of skills--well, I know some
are--um, of how to grow, weed, and harvest, and cook. Um, and they're taking in them--those skills with them when, when they leave and so some are--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --buying or renting homes to make sure they can garden.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: I have at least ten students now who have bought farms.
01:08:00RYLKO-BAUER: Really?
ANDREATTA: Yes.
RYLKO-BAUER: Huh.
ANDREATTA: And one I buy from every week that I'm, I'm able to, to get to the--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah--
ANDREATTA: --local farmers market. Uh, yeah, it's a joy to see them--
RYLKO-BAUER: --that's great, yes--
ANDREATTA: --so you kind of don't know where t--going to take--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah--
ANDREATTA: --their skills.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: Um, we also are a very diverse group where there are some students
who are physically, possibly mentally challenged.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: They're very welcoming. So they teach us in different ways of how to
create community and negotiate--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --how we work together, carry things--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and get jobs done.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: Um, and we talk, and we listen, and I think these are different kinds
of skills--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --that, uh, it's not about yields and how much it costs.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: Um, one person, I'm extremely fond of. She, when she came as a
freshman, was very, a very picky eater, and now she can't wait to harvest. And, and--(Rylko-Bauer laughs)--she wants to make sure we're going un--growing unusual things and then to take them home and cook. 01:09:00RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And that's just, sort of, transforming for people who might have
microwaved or prepur--bought--RYLKO-BAUER: --sure--
ANDREATTA: --prepackaged--
RYLKO-BAUER: --right--
ANDREATTA: --to now say, "I can grow it, and I'll cook it"--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --"and share it with others."
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: I--well, I think these are--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm.
ANDREATTA: We did have other groups that were growing for their members. They
were clubs--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and they were knowing that their students were living in cars and
couldn't feed--RYLKO-BAUER: --okay--
ANDREATTA: --themselves. Um, and, and I said, "Well, I don't think this will be
the answer because you're going to have to wait at least thirty days for a radish."RYLKO-BAUER: (laughs) Um-hm. Right.
ANDREATTA: "But your heart's in the right place." And they said, "Well, we still
want to do it. When the harvest comes, we can still get to it."RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: So there were people recognizing that if you knew how to do it and
share it with others, and that's what they wanted to be able--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --to do--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm. Well, an--another project that I know you've been involved
with, and I'm curious just, you know, how this relates to the community gardens is Project Green Leaf.ANDREATTA: Oh, that's a predecessor.
01:10:00RYLKO-BAUER: Oh--
ANDREATTA: --um, we ha--yeah, we had--
RYLKO-BAUER: --so that doesn't exist anymore?
ANDREATTA: Oh, we exist.
RYLKO-BAUER: Oh, exists?
ANDREATTA: We exist--
RYLKO-BAUER: --okay, but it's--
ANDREATTA: --but it's older.
RYLKO-BAUER: Okay.
ANDREATTA: Um, we had a horrible hurricane that destroyed a bunch of stuff in,
in our area, well, North Carolina back in 2001. And our local, um, grocery store were (??) running on a generator. Our then, um, chancellor, uh, was in the grocery store buying strawberries, and so we just talked and she, uh, said, "What are you doing?" and, uh, I told her my--what I was, was dreaming of, and she said, "Why don't you apply to my vision fund, and we'll see what we can do?" And she awarded me a three-year grant of a hundred fifty thousand dollars to set up Project Green Leaf to do outreach for farmers in the community about local food and helping our local farmers, um, stay in place and encouraging more local farmers because I told her the decline--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --on people's interest in farming and knowing where their food comes
01:11:00from. Where is the future going to be?RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: Um, and then I wrote a lot of grants, got funded, and, um, I reached
out to immigrant communities and started a, a community garden for them and working with the Montagnards who were refugees from Laos in Cambodia, and, um, we worked two years with that and then that, that project finished. Um, and we got them to sell at the farmers market, and people who had come recently, never had a bank account, but they were so successful at selling at the market that the women said, "I want my own money," yeah.RYLKO-BAUER: Hmm.
ANDREATTA: And then they were bringing their children who could speak English to
translate and do math.RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm.
ANDREATTA: So it was--you know, it was just a, a wonderful couple of years being
able to grow like that. Um, and that's still going and then in 2008, I believe, um, Springsteen came into town--RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah, I was going to ask about how Bruce Springsteen--
ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --got involved with this.
01:12:00ANDREATTA: Well, he has a wonderful, wonderful, uh, quiet way about him. And,
apparently, every concert that he goes to, he offers a scholarship or some funding for an organization that helps others.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And what his, uh, PR person recognized in our, our website for
Project Green Leaf is that we're trying to help others to help themselves.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And she said, "This is the type of project that Bruce would like to
support, so he's offering, um, some money, and we'll give you two pairs of tickets that we'll auction off"--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --"and here's how you auction it." And so we were generously funded
fourteen thousand dollars from that--RYLKO-BAUER: --wow--
ANDREATTA: --unsolicited, and it's a gift, so I can use it too. And then they
came back in 2016, and we had the, uh, the bathroomgate, so he wasn't able to perform, but he still honored--RYLKO-BAUER: --we have that what now?
ANDREATTA: Bathroom gate?
RYLKO-BAUER: Bathroom gate?
01:13:00ANDREATTA: Where North Carolina legislature ruled--
RYLKO-BAUER: --oh yes, um, right.
ANDREATTA: Um-hm.
RYLKO-BAUER: Well, well, well, te--why don't you say, you know--
ANDREATTA: --for the record--
RYLKO-BAUER: --for the record, yes.
ANDREATTA: North Carolina regis--legislatures ruled, uh, on, um, you can--
RYLKO-BAUER: --transgen--or trans--
ANDREATTA: --you could only use the bathrooms of the sex that you were born with
[Public Facilities Privacy & Security Act of North Carolina concerning transgender use of bathrooms].RYLKO-BAUER: All right, yeah--
ANDREATTA: --and--
RYLKO-BAUER: --so, he refused to--
ANDREATTA: --he refused to participate--
RYLKO-BAUER: --okay--
ANDREATTA: --and that, you know, affected sports.
RYLKO-BAUER: Right.
ANDREATTA: It affected everything for a couple of years.
RYLKO-BAUER: Yes.
ANDREATTA: Um, but he, he wouldn't perform and, uh, sent a check anyhow. I was
completely shocked at--RYLKO-BAUER: --oh my--
ANDREATTA: --not anticipated.
RYLKO-BAUER: Yeah.
ANDREATTA: And some of his loyal fans also sent checks.
RYLKO-BAUER: Oh, that's wonderful.
ANDREATTA: Yeah, and so he's done this for years, uh, everywhere--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --he goes.
RYLKO-BAUER: But it's wonderful that he recognized--
ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --Project--
ANDREATTA: --twice--
RYLKO-BAUER: --Green Leaf, twice. Yeah.
ANDREATTA: Yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: That's, that's an accomplishment because it really--
ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --you know, shows, uh, how, um--
ANDREATTA: --useful we've been--
RYLKO-BAUER: --useful, yeah. Yes, and um, that's great.
ANDREATTA: Yeah. (Rylko-Bauer laughs) And that same website, um, was picked up,
01:14:00and then maybe my articles on community-supported agriculture. But a fishery specialist, um, phoned and said, "I've read your articles on community-supported agriculture, could you help small fisher, fishers?" oh, fishermen as we call them--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --in North Carolina. And, um, he said--I said, "Well, I don't know
fish, um, I'm usually working on land." He goes, "We'll teach you fish if you can help us with the marketing and this--and, and what you've done to facilitate the connections with the people and local." And I said, "Okay." So I came down to Carteret County, and they had already launched, um, a logo for Carteret Catch and then I was helping with marketing for Carteret Catch for, um, community-supported fisheries.RYLKO-BAUER: So can you, kind of, back up and tell us where Carteret County is
and also what Carteret Catch is? I mean it's not-- 01:15:00ANDREATTA: --yes--
RYLKO-BAUER: --obviously, Greensboro. It's inland--
ANDREATTA: --no--
RYLKO-BAUER: So this is on the coast?
ANDREATTA: This is on the coast. We are four--Greensboro is four and a half hours--
RYLKO-BAUER: --okay--
ANDREATTA: --from Carteret County, um, which is, obviously, on the East Coast.
Uh, Beaufort might be, uh, a, a vacation town people might know.RYLKO-BAUER: Okay.
ANDREATTA: We're near some lighthouses, um, and Harkers Island is, uh, an, an
area that I would be working with small fishermen and in that whole area of Carteret. And, um, this fishery specialist, uh, especially, um, Barry Nash was working with the local fishermen, uh, on this logo design that they wanted a traceability program. That restaurants and boats who, um, were part of this membership that you could trace and guarantee that it was local fish. Oftentimes in some coastal areas, the fish is not local. It's imported, including our 01:16:00shrimp, and the areas were, you know, well known for shrimp and small crabs and flounders or, uh, soft-shell crabs. And how can you guarantee that some of the things in certain restaurants are local? So the logo was designed for a traceability program. Well, Scott [Baker, a fisheries specialist] thought we could go a little bit further with community supported and maybe prepay or work with, um, the small, small-scale fishermen on different ways of connecting with people. So I went to the hotels and said, "Could--we could design a package for your guests that if they wanted fresh shrimp or flounder, that we could have a cooler waiting for them"--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --"and, and have a traceability program that what they're getting,
uh, would be local." So I gave a number of talks to flesh this out, and that project went up to Nova Scotia, went down to Florida. It's on the West Coast. Uh, uh, where else did it go? I think it went to Spain, uh, Australia and-- 01:17:00RYLKO-BAUER: --you mean--
ANDREATTA: --and a few place--
RYLKO-BAUER: --community-supported fisheries--
ANDREATTA: --supported fisheries--
RYLKO-BAUER: --SC--
ANDREATTA: --as yes, (??) CSFs.
RYLKO-BAUER: Yeah. Well, I went online and LocalCatch.org--
ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --I've heard farm to table, I had never heard boat to fork.
ANDREATTA: Yes. (laughs)
RYLKO-BAUER: But I think that's so great.
ANDREATTA: Yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: But--so, it's like--
ANDREATTA: --so this is--
RYLKO-BAUER: --they said 422 locations in North America--
ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --they have these, uh--
ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um, yeah--
ANDREATTA: --yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: --that's, uh--talk about impact--
ANDREATTA: --yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: --that's a--that's a--
ANDREATTA: --but that's like a--that was a lot of people--well--
RYLKO-BAUER: --a lot of people--
ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --involved, yeah--
ANDREATTA: --yeah, a lot people--
RYLKO-BAUER: --you were one of those people involved too--
ANDREATTA: --yeah, early on and--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah, yeah--
ANDREATTA: --calling it community-supported fisheries was something that, that I coined--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and--but I--it wouldn't have had that opportunity if Scott hadn't--
RYLKO-BAUER: --sure, yeah--
ANDREATTA: --Scott Baker--
RYLKO-BAUER: --but I think it's also interesting--so they were facing
challenges, right, the fishermen?ANDREATTA: --yeah, fishermen are facing challenge--
RYLKO-BAUER: --and fisherwomen--
ANDREATTA: --competition, yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah--
ANDREATTA: --yeah. And that's why fisher--
RYLKO-BAUER: --norther--
ANDREATTA: --fish, the people in the north call them fishers.
RYLKO-BAUER: Fishers, okay.
ANDREATTA: We're still fishermen in North--
01:18:00RYLKO-BAUER: --right--
ANDREATTA: --Carolina, uh, so it's--you know, you don't know.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: Um, and I would fish on the boats. I'd do my--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --interviews to the--during the day and then I'd go out shrimping at
night or floundering and the--I have really inside, emic perspective. I was a worker.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: I sorted shrimp. I do--I was even a vegetarian until that
point--(laughs)--um, and then I learned to eat fish, uh, and, uh, I actually ate some, but this was different--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --popping heads off shrimp. I had never done that.
RYLKO-BAUER: Yeah. (laughs) Huh--
ANDREATTA: --I--yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: But, you know, to really understand--
ANDREATTA: --I--yeah (??)--
RYLKO-BAUER: --what the--
ANDREATTA: --you do--
RYLKO-BAUER: --what challenges, you know, food producers face, you need to--
ANDREATTA: --to do it and to know--
RYLKO-BAUER: --to do it--
ANDREATTA: --their workday--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah.
ANDREATTA: --because they would fish--
RYLKO-BAUER: --right--
ANDREATTA: --all night, land a--land a catch in the morning and then maybe have
to refuel, get ice with a net going out, uh, maybe sleep or get some food-- 01:19:00RYLKO-BAUER: --repairs--
ANDREATTA: --the repairs--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah.
ANDREATTA: You never knew what was--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah--
ANDREATTA: --going on.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And so you could--they were exhausted. Uh, and you could fish
Mo--Sunday night through Friday, uh, afternoon.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And then it was for recreational--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --people. Um, but I think the competition from imports, um, is a
threat and, and being able to, uh, know that you're buying local, selling at a premium. The fishermen still, on my mind, were giving it away.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: Um, and they had--some were very creative doing roadside stands--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --but, you know, I saw a price for beautiful shrimp for, you know,
$2.35 or $1.75, you know? And I said, "If I'm a tourist"--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --"driving by"--
RYLKO-BAUER: --a pound?
ANDREATTA: A pound.
RYLKO-BAUER: Oh, my--
ANDREATTA: --and I said--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah.
ANDREATTA: --"If I'm a tourist driving by and I don't know you, I think that's bait."
RYLKO-BAUER: Yeah, that's true--(Andreatta laughs)--that's true.
ANDREATTA: Because what I'm paying in--inland--
RYLKO-BAUER: --right.
ANDREATTA: So what community-supported fisheries did and people who picked up on
it, um--and there was a group um in Duke that picked up on it--they brought the 01:20:00fish inland. And they created drop-off points and then--RYLKO-BAUER: --and--
ANDREATTA: --around the area, they were creating drop-off points, and people
would buy in through the computer or buy in--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and become a member--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and preorder their fish just like what community-supported
agriculture is--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and then they'd get their share.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm. Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And then that was helping to create and support local fishermen.
RYLKO-BAUER: So I can understand the importance of creating a brand.
ANDREATTA: Yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: Because then, uh, people know that it's local.
ANDREATTA: That's right.
RYLKO-BAUER: Because that I think you--I think you may have mentioned already
that if you've got a lot of imported fish, uh, people aren't really aware. They want local--ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --but--
ANDREATTA: --and that's where the--
RYLKO-BAUER: --so--
ANDREATTA: --North Carolina fisheries people were really--and Barry Nash and
working with different groups and Scott Baker--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --they would--once Carteret took off then they started doing it with
the other areas and local communities.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: So you'll find along, uh, the Carteret a--oh, not Carteret. When you
find the North Carolina coast where there are, uh, intense local fishermen, 01:21:00they'll all have their own logo.RYLKO-BAUER: Okay.
ANDREATTA: And that's good to look for at roadside stands or--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --restaurants or just making sure, you know, tourists who come to the
area, is this local?RYLKO-BAUER: Right.
ANDREATTA: And if you're not sure--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --because for the record--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --salmon is not local. (laughs)
RYLKO-BAUER: Right, that's right. There's no salmon there.
ANDREATTA: No. (laughs)
RYLKO-BAUER: --because, you know, it's interesting because I think as, you know,
we've become so globalized, and I'm--even by globalized, I mean like, you know, in the--I remember taking vacations and, you know, it would be, kind of, interesting to go into a new city because there were all these local stores.ANDREATTA: Um-hm.
RYLKO-BAUER: And now, you know, there's so much that is, you know, universal--
ANDREATTA: --um-hm--
RYLKO-BAUER: --which really takes away from. I mean you can stay home and go to,
you know, whatever this shop or that shop. And now, I think that has cha--is changing--ANDREATTA: --um-hm--
RYLKO-BAUER: --again, now.
ANDREATTA: Um-hm. Um-hm.
RYLKO-BAUER: But I think that this of, a value, uh, about--you know, there's
01:22:00been more value put on, on things--ANDREATTA: --um-hm--
RYLKO-BAUER: --that are locally crafted--
ANDREATTA: --that's right--
RYLKO-BAUER: --as for example, if we produced--
ANDREATTA: --that's right. Yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --because we've become--you know, we've realized at the same time
how everything has become homogenized--ANDREATTA: --that's right--
RYLKO-BAUER: --on some levels.
ANDREATTA: But--and in a different way, this is sustainability all over again.
RYLKO-BAUER: Yeah. Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: Because it's helping people to connect to the local to stay, stay in
business. And if you like what's going on, uh, or eating that you want to make sure the next thing--you can back up it's there. Yeah.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm. That's true.
ANDREATTA: Yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: Well, um, I did want to just, um, make--ask you one more question
about your teaching, and that is that I wondered how many, um, students end up majoring in anthropology in your program?ANDREATTA: In our program, we have about a hundred, just under a hundred first
majors and probably another twenty-five to thirty second majors. They do the 01:23:00same amount of work. It's just how they declare--RYLKO-BAUER: --this is each year or--?
ANDREATTA: Oh, well, it takes four years to fi--
RYLKO-BAUER: --okay--
ANDREATTA: --we're maintaining that--
RYLKO-BAUER: --I see what you're saying.
ANDREATTA: We're maintaining--
RYLKO-BAUER: --okay, yeah.
ANDREATTA: We--we, you know--
RYLKO-BAUER: --per cohort--
ANDREATTA: --I mean--
RYLKO-BAUER: --I guess.
ANDREATTA: Per cohort.
RYLKO-BAUER: Yeah.
ANDREATTA: Uh, we're maintaining, and we graduate about thirty a year.
RYLKO-BAUER: Okay. And who are your other students who take, um, not just the
intro but let's say--ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --additional courses?
ANDREATTA: But every year, our department is teaching over a thousand--well over
a thousand students---RYLKO-BAUER: --oh, okay--
ANDREATTA: --a semester, oh, well, well over. Yeah. We're, we're probably twelve
hundred students a semester teaching--RYLKO-BAUER: --okay--
ANDREATTA: --different parts of anthropology. And so between biology students,
nursing students, environmental studies students.RYLKO-BAUER: Okay.
ANDREATTA: Um, and then because of our intro program whether it's biological,
cultural, or archeology, some of these carry markers, so we're able to--and all students have to take these gen-ed classes and we're well poised to explore, uh, 01:24:00expose many students--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --to anthropology. And I think that that's where we are what we call
a discovery major. And maybe because--RYLKO-BAUER: --okay--
ANDREATTA: --of taking the gen ed, uh, and if you do, you know, well in those
intro classes, you are able to retain students for, uh, maybe a second--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --major first if not a minor--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and they'll take the skillsets with them--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --um, that help them do whatever else--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --they would like to do.
RYLKO-BAUER: The skillsets and the--
ANDREATTA: --and the knowledge--
RYLKO-BAUER: --worldview. Yeah--
ANDREATTA: --and the worldview--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah--
ANDREATTA: --culture--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah--
ANDREATTA: --time and place--(Rylko-Bauer clears throat)--time and history, yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --absolutely.
RYLKO-BAUER: Well, to, kind of, conclude, um, I, I want to ask, kind of, these
larger, um, uh, questions relating to impact and vision. So, how do you see yourself in terms of, you know, impacts that you have had? I mean some of this 01:25:00we've already covered. You've certainly talked about, you know, your work in the SfAA and, um, the work that you had done on the community gardens. But in a more general sense, um, have you thought about that from time to time? I mean you're--ANDREATTA: --yeah. I think there's two, couple--well, a couple of tracks that
come to mind right away. Uh, I think by working with, uh, local farmers for now twenty-three years, twenty-two years and--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --twenty or twenty-two, twenty-three years in um, in Green--in
Greensboro, I was worried for a period of time that we wouldn't have new farmers coming to the markets.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And now, I'm seeing new people. They don't always have to be young.
They could be back-to-landers, but I am, um, seeing some of my old--older farmers transition out facing different kinds of life challenges but new people coming along.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And I think my next track is how to take the old knowledge and
the--and the new knowledge.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
01:26:00ANDREATTA: And as we're expecting, uh, climate change and everybody's
experiencing it. We are, too, in our campus garden. There's things we can't grow as we once did ten years ago--RYLKO-BAUER: --years ago, yeah.
ANDREATTA: So how do we bring these shared knowledge and shared experience from,
well, our--more experienced people--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and new ones.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: So I'm cu--currently working on that.
RYLKO-BAUER: Okay.
ANDREATTA: Collecting the stories and the narratives--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --of what's going on and how are they adapting to change.
RYLKO-BAUER: So you're doing some oral histories?
ANDREATTA: I'm doing oral histories--
RYLKO-BAUER: --okay--
ANDREATTA: --now with farmers.
RYLKO-BAUER: How wonderful.
ANDREATTA: Yeah. And then--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah--
ANDREATTA: --um, the second--well and along with that, seeing them come to
market, so making sure, uh, farmers markets are staying alive and thriving--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and well. And I had over my career with Project Green Leaves--Green
Leaf started three, but they, kind of, dwindled. And now--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --we've got four in our area doing very well. Um, and that's probably
enough when you think about--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --small farmers, obviously--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah--
ANDREATTA: --you need to be on the farm.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: Um, but it's the young people com--or new coming back and being able
to stay a year and then you see them another year, and that's good. Now we've 01:27:00got, you know, sustainability in the markets.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: Um, and in my time doing this, um, when I first started doing
domestic agriculture, I think that nationally, we had twenty-five hundred farmers markets that were recorded, and now, we're close to five thousand. So all the work whether it's anthropologists or communities doing, what people are recognizing around the country is the--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --importance. To support local, you have to support the farmers
markets and--RYLKO-BAUER: --right.
ANDREATTA: --and we're not talking about, are you making a lot of money or that,
that kind of success, but we're maintaining a larger number of markets, and that's community support.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: --and I, you know, want to thank many, many people who are now--and
you look at our [SfAA] programs, you see how much local food -- that there's sessions that are being on why--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --why, why, why do we talk about food and food--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --insecurity.
RYLKO-BAUER: Right.
ANDREATTA: This isn't going away.
RYLKO-BAUER: Right.
ANDREATTA: And I, I think another issue, now I've got three, um, is that by
2050, we're going to be trying to feed ten billion people. How are we going to 01:28:00do this?RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And so we cannot stop talking about food and, and how to grow it, and
make sure that culture production is alive and well, and not everybody should be a farmer. We don't have--(laughs)--that we, we don't need all of that. But people should respect what people are doing to farm--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and appreciate the--what's going into farming so that they--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --have a meal no matter where it's growing.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And I think that's part, uh, exposure and value of what I'm teaching
and many other, uh, anthropologists that are doing the same thing.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And then I think a third area and, um, it's got multiple angles to it
tied with climate change but a colleague of ours, uh, Merrill Singer--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --coined a phrase, synndemic.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And when you think about, um, loss of potable water, soil health--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah--
ANDREATTA: --loss of biodiversity, loss of our forestlands, loss of our energy
sources, where is our food going to come from? 01:29:00RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: How do we maintain all of this?
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And so I see the potential for us, you know, if we don't radically
change, um, water wars, more starvation. We're still at a million. This is another endemic problem--RYLKO-BAUER: --diseases--
ANDREATTA: --diseases related--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --or secondary to all of this with diets--
RYLKO-BAUER: --climate change--
ANDREATTA: --climate change--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah, food, yes.
ANDREATTA: Yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: So I--this topic doesn't go away.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: So a third ar--or another ar--uh, I'm very much interested in this
movement social movement, philosophy, way of life called Degrowth.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And they're pretty radical in what they're espousing, but it's a way
to reduce our energy use, all the throughput and thinking about if we degrow--(laughs)--that we might be able to handle climate change--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --because it's so radical.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: But it is a philosophy--a huge change in culture that we value time,
01:30:00our time, free time, enjoying nature, enjoying relationships, social relationship--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --mindfulness, and not GDP, not how much money you made.
RYLKO-BAUER: So it's kind of, uh, reducing consumption?
ANDREATTA: Reducing consumption, reducing capitalism. The challenge will be
that, for a period of time, a lot of people would be put out of work, so how do you avoid global, you know, economic collapse?RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: What could be put in place? The pathway to some of these changes in
the North would be very different from the South.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: Who's poor versus who's more privileged--
RYLKO-BAUER: --well, because now--
ANDREATTA: --could be different--
RYLKO-BAUER: --the North is essentially--
ANDREATTA: --hey, extracting--
RYLKO-BAUER: --extracting--
ANDREATTA: --yeah--
RYLKO-BAUER: --from the South--
ANDREATTA: --and they're using extraction and colonialism, so how, how do you,
kind of, work through this? But at some point, we are going to be energy deprived through our natural--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --resources and the--uh, what do we call--ecological economists
saying green energy is insufficient to replace oil. 01:31:00RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: But at some point--(laughs)--the--
RYLKO-BAUER: What do mean? Green energy with less consumption?
ANDREATTA: Is still insufi--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yes--
ANDREATTA: --insufficient for replacing our dependency on oil--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --globally.
RYLKO-BAUER: And so what else do you do, right?
ANDREATTA: And, and they're, so, saying, We have to do it now before time runs out.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And meanwhile, you know, the CO2 emissions keep happening--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and our climate keeps warming. And what we've been experiencing
possibly in the last three years are the worst storms whether it's rain--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --the worst droughts, the worst fires--
RYLKO-BAUER: --right.
ANDREATTA: And if this is the path, we've got some challenges facing us.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: So how, how to do this collectively with community from the bottom up.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And encouraging more people to work together towards this kind of change.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm. So you had a--you organized a session at these meetings.
ANDREATTA: Yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: And how did that--with--did that include students or other
colleagues that are trying to, uh, work with this philosophy within or this 01:32:00movement without--within anthropology?ANDREATTA: Oh, absolutely. I went to my first Degrowth conference in Malmö, uh,
in August of last year, and I met two people. And I met, uh, Barbara, um, Muraca who teaches at, uh, Oregon--University of Oregon?RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And she presented and led off on the history and just a dynamic job.
And then her--uh, a student of hers from OSU, um, Micknai, uh, Arefaine from Ethiopia but also raised in the US, um, did a presentation, and I had met her in Malmö.RYLKO-BAUER: Okay.
ANDREATTA: And then Lisa Gezon and we, uh, had been working--
RYLKO-BAUER: --Malmö, Sweden?
ANDREATTA: Malmö, Sweden.
RYLKO-BAUER: Okay.
ANDREATTA: And Lisa Gezon had been working with Susan Paulson and brought it to
AAA in, uh, 2015. And, um, Susan was unable to attend but Lisa presented what she's been doing in the classroom and with her fieldwork. And then I presented 01:33:00what I was doing in our classroom to help foster this movement--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --for change and inspiring students to, to be thinking about it not
as a burden--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --but hopeful--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm. Like a new pathway--
ANDREATTA: --a new pathway--
RYLKO-BAUER: --forward--
ANDREATTA: --alternative--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --way of living--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --um, thinking--you know, they all have debt when they're--you know,
as students but how to live in a way that doesn't say you--if you live more simply, you didn't need all these consumer things.RYLKO-BAUER: Right.
ANDREATTA: And just, you know, just to be mindful--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: ---um-hm--and taking time, you know--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --you know, to slow down--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --and, and that's--
RYLKO-BAUER: --so it's not just the slow food movement.
ANDREATTA: No.
RYLKO-BAUER: It's the slow living movement--
ANDREATTA: --right, absolutely.
RYLKO-BAUER: Yeah.
ANDREATTA: And, and they--this group, Degrowth, uses the snail, uh, the snail as part--
RYLKO-BAUER: --okay as the--
ANDREATTA: --uh, a part of their logo--
RYLKO-BAUER: --you have the turtle, and they have the snail--
ANDREATTA: Yeah. And, oh, they have the snail and the elephant--
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah--
ANDREATTA: --that's kind of the transformation.
RYLKO-BAUER: Yeah.
ANDREATTA: But i--i--it's a--uh, there are elements of it that are a bit more
radical than I would buy into--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --but I think this aggressiveness for helping to combat or work with
01:34:00climate change before it gets us--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --uh, is something that I think we really need to pay attention to--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm. Well, um, is there anything else that you want to say
about like where you see applied anthropology heading? Um, or you know, what the future of it is or how that future can be both assured and also, you know, made even broader and, uh--ANDREATTA: --well, we've had a long history so far, you know more than seventy
five years of being an organization. But I think, um, these global problems aren't going to go away.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And many are domestic as well as international. That if we remain
mindful to local needs, um, that we're--we should always be around. But how--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --our organization stays solvent, I think we've got a good history in
01:35:00how we've been able to do that.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: So, I, I remain saddened slash hopeful that they're always going to
be used--you--um, issues for applied anthropologists to get involved in.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And, and where we provide that cultural or humanistic perspective to
hard science or to other--RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --other ways of doing that we can be, um, critically important--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm. Is there anything that we need to be doing differently or
doing more to advance, um, applied anthropology? And, you know, the practice of it.ANDREATTA: Yeah if, if there are more ways we can get involved in policy.
RYLKO-BAUER: Okay.
ANDREATTA: And so then um, that people's voices and not just issue voices are heard.
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm. That's, that's a good way of putting it, yes. Yeah.
Because issue voices are oftentimes--ANDREATTA: --politicized--
RYLKO-BAUER: --controlled and--(Andreatta laughs)--politicized and weaponized--
01:36:00ANDREATTA: --yes--
RYLKO-BAUER: --by people with other agendas--
ANDREATTA: --yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: --yeah.
ANDREATTA: Yeah.
RYLKO-BAUER: People in power.
ANDREATTA: And oftentimes who we're working with are the marginalized whose
voices aren't--RYLKO-BAUER: --yes--
ANDREATTA: --heard--
RYLKO-BAUER: --heard, right.
ANDREATTA: --and if you, um, kind of, relegate them to that status--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --rather than embrace them as, uh, an equal voice then--
RYLKO-BAUER: --um-hm--
ANDREATTA: --um, I, I think we could do better there.
RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm. Well, I think on that note, we will end, and I have really
enjoyed, um, you know, just having this conversation and listening to--and just learning actually a lot more about what you've done. And you've really accomplished a lot, Susan, so my congratulations and my very, very grateful thanks.ANDREATTA: Oh, thank you. (laughs) My pleasure.
[Pause in recording.]
ANDREATTA: Um, I just remembered one more thing in closing for maybe the second
or third time--(both laugh)--is that when, um, I became president, I happened to 01:37:00meet Sue-Ellen Jacobs in the elevator. And I had the gavel, and she told me that her father made it. And that's where I learned the story that her father said that she might need this when she was president to control the people around the boardroom. (Rylko-Bauer laughs) And ever since, part of our ritual in the society during our business meeting is to pass the gavel on from the past pres--the, the president to the incoming president.RYLKO-BAUER: Um-hm.
ANDREATTA: And it's, uh, something that we need to correct. Sometimes that
we--I've read and heard other people mention that it was Margaret Mead's gavel, and for the record, it was Sue-Ellen Jacobs'--(Rylko-Bauer laughs)--and her father. Thank youRYLKO-BAUER: Well, thank you. I think it's important to get history right.
ANDREATTA: It sure is.
RYLKO-BAUER: Yeah. (laughs)
ANDREATTA: Thank you. (laughs)
[End of interview.]
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