Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History

Interview with Lyman T. Johnson, April 3, 1979

Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, University of Kentucky Libraries
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00:00:00 - "Separate, but equal" universities

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Partial Transcript: --I don't exhaust you too much at one time.

Segment Synopsis: Johnson discusses the concept of "separate but equal" in higher education during segregation. He talks about the prominently white and black universities that existed at the time of the interview and explores the question of justification for those schools to be prominently black or white.

Keywords: Anti-slavery movement; Baptists; Bellarmine University; Black schools; Brown University; Catholics; Centre College; Church schools; Churches; Contributions; Ford Foundation; Hand out; Harvard University; Inflation; Leadership ability; Necessity; Northern churches; Opportunity; Private schools; Privileges; Professors; Public schools; Scholarships; Schools; Shoes; Socialists; Spalding College; Students; Unemployment rate; Union College; University of Richmond; Vanderbilt University; Virginia Union University; White northern teachers; White people; Yale University; Yankees

Subjects: College integration; Education; Johnson, Lyman T., 1906-1997; Johnson, Lyman T., 1906-1997--Interviews; Religion; Segregation in education.; Segregation in higher education.

00:12:43 - Prejudices and stigmas around predominantly black institutions

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Partial Transcript: What I'm asking is do you think there's a place in our society today for any institutions that are predominantly--and I--I don't mean legally, but predominantly because of choice--either black or white or red or yellow or whatever--or green.

Segment Synopsis: Johnson discusses the prejudices and stigmas that come with being part of a predominantly black institution. He talks about how white people degrade the accomplishments of African Americans because they graduated from a predominantly black institution, as well as limit the amount of success they can achieve when they are at a predominantly white institution. He brings up specific examples, such as his own experience at the University of Michigan when the highest grade a professor would give him was a 'C' because "that's a good mark" for a black student.

Keywords: "Totally black experience"; Banks; Byron White; Churches; Columbia University; Concepts; Connotations; Continental National Bank; Dartmouth College; Decisions; Direction; Dr. W. E. B. Du Bois; Eloquent English; Fisk University; George Wright; Howard Law School; Inferiority; Institutions; Medical schools; Philosophy; Prejudices; Quality; Reputations; Schools; Sports writers; Supervision; Thurgood Marshall; Traditions; University of Michigan; Yale University

Subjects: African Americans--Race identity.; African Americans--Segregation; African Americans--Social conditions.; Johnson, Lyman T., 1906-1997; Johnson, Lyman T., 1906-1997--Interviews; Race discrimination.; Segregation in education.; Segregation in higher education.; Segregation.

00:26:02 - Fair housing demonstrations / Meeting Martin Luther King Jr.

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Partial Transcript: Well, I've talked a lot about Russia in my classes.

Segment Synopsis: Johnson discusses the housing demonstrations that occurred in Louisville, Kentucky, during which he met Martin Luther King Jr. He discusses King's advice for the demonstrations, as well as how King came to be thought of as a civil rights leader.

Keywords: Abraham Lincoln; Accommodations; Anchorage; Beneficiary of circumstance; Black leaders; Board of education; Bullets; Charisma; Civil rights; Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.; Energy; Ghetto; Housing demonstrations; Human rights; Kentucky State University; Martyrdom; Mohandas Gandhi; Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi; National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP); National leaders; Real estate; Rosa Parks; Russia; Subdivisions; Violence

Subjects: African Americans--Civil rights; African Americans--Civil rights--Kentucky; African Americans--Housing.; African Americans--Social conditions.; Civil rights movements--United States; Discrimination in housing.; Discrimination.; Johnson, Lyman T., 1906-1997; Johnson, Lyman T., 1906-1997--Interviews; King, Martin Luther, Jr. 1929-1968; Leadership.; Neighborhoods.; Race discrimination.

00:48:32 - Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC) vs. National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP)

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Partial Transcript: D-do you think his, his martyrdom was inevitable?

Segment Synopsis: Johnson discusses different roles that the Southern Christian Leadership Conference and the NAACP played in the lives of people during the civil rights movement.

Keywords: Benjamin Hooks; Church services; Dr. Maurice Rabb; History; Martyrdom; Mockery; National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP); Negro spirituals; Preachers; Reckless; Roy Wilkins; Slave owners; Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC); Speeches; Thurgood Marshall; W. E. B. Du Bois; Walter White

Subjects: African American leadership; African Americans--Civil rights; African Americans--Social conditions.; Johnson, Lyman T., 1906-1997; Johnson, Lyman T., 1906-1997--Interviews; King, Martin Luther, Jr. 1929-1968; Race relations--Kentucky; Religion; Slavery--United States.

00:58:09 - The influence of religion / Mental health

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Partial Transcript: That's what the communists said about religion in the first place. Said it's just an opiate of the--o-of the people.

Segment Synopsis: Johnson discusses how he views the influence that religion has on people's lives as well as his struggles with depression and keeping up his mental health in his effort to fight for civil rights.

Keywords: Arthritis; Communists; Depression; Encouragement; Energy; Family; First National Bank; Pleasures; Problems; Satisfaction; Unemployment

Subjects: African Americans--Religion.; African Americans--Social conditions.; Communism.; Johnson, Lyman T., 1906-1997; Johnson, Lyman T., 1906-1997--Interviews; Mental health.; Race relations--Kentucky

01:06:58 - His impressions of Martin Luther King Jr.

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Partial Transcript: Oh, I, uh, I--I--I have reduced, uh, this almost to, uh--my philosophy almost to physics, terms of physics, scientifically.

Segment Synopsis: Johnson discusses his impressions of Martin Luther King Jr. as a leader, as well as talks about his brother-in-law being the preacher at the same Dexter Avenue Baptist Church as that King preached at.

Keywords: A. D. King; A. D. Williams King; Arnold E. Gregory; Dexter Avenue Baptist Church; Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.; Housing demonstrations; Impressions; Mohandas Gandhi; Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi; Resources; Rosa Parks; Spokesman; Superintendents

Subjects: African American leadership; King, Martin Luther, Jr. 1929-1968; Louisville (Ky.); Protest movements.; Teachers