00:00:00UNKNOWN: Ready to go whenever you are.
GILES: Okay, good afternoon. I'm Yvonne Giles, and we are here today with a
gentleman who is involved with the racing industry, owns--currently owns horses,
and races them, and we are recording for the Chronicle of African Americans in
the Horse Industry. Joining us with this interview is Lewis Brown who is also a
co-owner of one of the horses, and he's had some very interesting experiences,
and he's discovered that he has a relative that was in the thoroughbred industry
that he didn't know about. So we will start with Mr. Jones whom we are
interviewing today, and I'm going to ask you, Mr. Jones, to introduce yourself,
spell your name, and talk about your career in the horses industry.
JONES: Well, my name is Phillip Jones, Phillip L. Jones, P-h-i-l-l-i-p,
L L for the middle initial, J-o-n-e-s. I got involved in the horse
00:01:00racing business in 1978--'79, but prior to that, my grandfather was in the horse industry.
GILES: And your grandfather was?
JONES: My grandfather was Marshall Andrew Hathaway.
GILES: And what did he do?
JONES: He was a--he started out as a groom at fourteen. He went on to a groom
and trained horses in New York under Keene Daingerfield, which used to be the
Kentucky racing steward here for years. He became a manager of several farms,
Broadmoor Farm the Stallion Station, and others as a manager. And his
00:02:00last job he had before he passed away was in charge of broodmares at the
Stallion Station under Hal Snowden Sr.
GILES: Is that when you started working with him?
JONES: Well, I used to go out there with him when I was sixteen, seventeen, and
just milling around with him. And he didn't want me to follow that
path--(laughs)--he said it was too hard, but, I just liked the horses and then I
began to fool with them, and of course in between, driving a truck, I trained
horses--from 1979 up till today.
00:03:00
GILES: Okay.
JONES: Yeah.
GILES: When you drove [a] truck, what did you--who do you drive it for--
JONES: I was a truck driver for forty years.
GILES: In what company?
JONES: I drove for McLean Trucking and for overnight UPS.
GILES: Oh, wow.
JONES: And they said I drove six million miles; I don't believe it, yeah.
(laughter) But it might be why I'm broke down but--(laughter)
GILES: So you were driving the truck during the day or--
JONES: --at night.
GILES: --at night?
JONES: At night.
GILES: So you'd come in off the road, change clothes--
JONES: --go out and fool with the--
GILES: --and go to the stables?
JONES: --horses, um-hm.
GILES: Where do you stable?
JONES: Out at the training center on Paris Pike, Lexington Training Center.
GILES: And how long have you been out there?
JONES: Off and on, since 1979.
GILES: Okay. Sometimes you move--I know people move around, but--
JONES: --yeah.
GILES: --you've been there longer?
JONES: Yeah, but I've been--I've trained at--used to be Latonia Race Track,
River Downs, which is Belterra now.
00:04:00
GILES: Yeah, that's in Ohio, Cincinnati--
JONES: --yeah, um-hm. Churchill Downs, I ran at Keeneland, I wouldn't stable
there, but I ran at--
GILES: --ran--
JONES: --Keeneland.
GILES: --there, okay.
JONES: Um-hm.
GILES: What other tracks do you go to?
JONES: Charles Town, West Virginia, Presque Isle in Pennsylvania, Penn National
in Pennsylvania, Laurel in Maryland, and that's about it for a while--
GILES: --That's a lot traveling.
JONES: It is.
GILES: Do you do any Illinois and New Jersey, have you ever done any of those?
JONES: I have been at Illinois, but I didn't stay.
GILES: Okay.
JONES: And I went to Chicago, and I didn't stay. At the time, I didn't--well,
the atmosphere wasn't right, let's put it--
GILES: --yeah--
JONES: --that way.
00:05:00
GILES: --yeah, you knew?
JONES: Yeah, yeah.
GILES: Yeah, that wasn't [a] place to be welcomed.
JONES: No, no, it wasn't.
GILES: Yeah, okay.
JONES: Unh-uh.
GILES: --see--
BROWN: And what about West Virginia?
JONES: Well now, West Virginia was a little rough. (laughs)
BROWN: Okay.
JONES: It was a little rough in West--
GILES: West--
JONES: --Virginia, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, but just--I just try to go with it.
GILES: Right.
JONES: Yeah.
GILES: Yeah, you've learned--as we say, we know how to make it work, you know?
JONES: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, my most successful was in Kentucky and Ohio though.
GILES: Okay. So that's where you--
JONES: --because I--
GILES: --sit--
JONES: --won races in West Virginia, but I just--I enjoyed being around here--
GILES: --here, here--
JONES: --yeah more.
GILES: --in Kentucky--
JONES: --yeah.
GILES: --much more?
JONES: Oh yeah.
GILES: So how many horses do you own?
JONES: Right now, I got four.
GILES: Okay. And are they three-year-olds, are all of them three-year-olds or older?
JONES: I had a two-year-old, a three-year-old, and a five-year-old.
GILES: Okay.
JONES: Two three-year-olds.
GILES: And when do you-- do you keep them beyond five or what--what's your--
00:06:00
JONES: If they--as long as they're--
GILES: --as they're riding?
JONES: --able to ride, you know-
GILES: Okay.
JONES: --or I mate--
GILES: And winning!
JONES: Or I mate broodmares out of fillies.
GILES: Okay. So you do some breeding?
JONES: Oh yeah, I've done that too.
GILES: Okay. And have you been--satisfied with that success at breeding?
JONES: Well, the most success I've had with horses seems to be the ones that
I've bred and raised.
GILES: Really?
JONES: Yeah, because you know what you have in them. You see, you go to the
sales, you can buy a horse in the sales, but unless you know who raised that
horse and what they put in that horse, you never know what you have.
GILES: Until you bring it home.
JONES: Even some of the best breeding in the world if they haven't taken proper
care of the horse, it will tell after you start training. It'll show.
00:07:00
GILES: It'll show.
JONES: Oh yeah.
GILES: Now, do you do any exercising yourself or do you have a crew of people
that actually work?
JONES: --I have an exercise rider--
GILES: --okay.
BROWN: That's one that he's raised and bred--
JONES: --yeah.
BROWN: --and done everything.
JONES: --that's the one I bred and raised, and he won at Churchill Downs.
GILES: Give us the name--
JONES: Um-hm.
GILES: Tell us.
JONES: He paid $196, and I bred and raised him, and that was his first race.
GILES: And how did you come up with this name?
JONES: Jerry Berry Jack?
GILES: Yeah.
JONES: I named it after Jerry Sydney who was a blacksmith and my friend. Julius
Berry, which was my friend, and he was in the horse business, and Jackie
Thompson who was a farrier.
GILES: --oh yeah, okay.
JONES: Yeah--
GILES: So you've got a--
JONES: --he was a blacksmith--
GILES: --blacksmith, a horse owner, and another blacksmith farrier?
JONES: Yeah, um-hm.
GILES: That's an interesting --
00:08:00
JONES: --yeah, yeah.
GILES: --combination of names.
JONES: Well, see, they were good friends, and when they passed on, and I named
this horse--
GILES: --okay.
JONES: --Jerry Berry Jack.
GILES: That's kind of a gray, do you call that a gray or--
JONES: --yeah, he's--
GILES: --or a silver?-
JONES: --a gray, he's gray.
GILES: Okay.
JONES: Um-hm. He won his first race right there.
GILES: Okay.
JONES: Yeah.
GILES: Run for the Roses, in 2010.
JONES: Um-hm. But he won, he raced--(pause) Well, he won the race very
impressive, and I didn't sell him. I probably should've, but I didn't. (Giles
laughs) He--I don't know. Someone seem to dislike it because I wouldn't sell
him, and they done something to him.
GILES: Oh, so you had to put him down.
JONES: No, I didn't put him--
GILES: Aww (??)
JONES: --down, but he wasn't the same.
GILES: Oh really?
JONES: Yeah. See, they have a way of doing things when they want.
00:09:00
GILES: Oh--
JONES: --um-hm.
GILES: --oh, that's terrible.
JONES: Yes. It's happened before you know, so. But, yeah, he was a--I'd say he
was the third or fourth horse I bred and raised--
GILES: --okay.
JONES: See that's his picture--
GILES: --there's his picture--
JONES: --when we won.
GILES: --there.
JONES: Yeah.
GILES: It's a beautiful dapple-gray--
JONES: --yeah, yeah.
GILES: --a beautiful horse.
JONES: Yes, that's when he won.
GILES: Wow.
JONES: And he came out of the eleven post position.
GILES: Whoa. So he made up ground, didn't he?
JONES: Oh yeah.
GILES: What was the field?
JONES: It was twelve of thirteen horses in the field.
GILES: Well, he did wonderfully well.
JONES: Yeah, um-hm.
GILES: Do you ever get on them yourself, exercise or--
JONES: I did--
GILES: --ride them?
JONES: --years ago but--
GILES: --okay, not anymore?
JONES: Uh-huh, I got too old.
GILES: Okay. (both laugh)
JONES: I used to help break my own.
GILES: Okay.
JONES: Yeah, you know, just turn them in the stall and getting up on their back?
GILES: Um-hm.
JONES: And then the first horse that I bred and raised, Marshall's
00:10:00Back, I don't know if I got his picture over there or not.
GILES: Marshall's Back?
JONES: Um-hm. Somebody else has got my pictures out there going in.
GILES: Okay. And--
JONES: --but they were--
GILES: --did you name him after your grandfather, Marshall?
JONES: I named him after my grandfather--
GILES: --okay.
JONES: And I was breaking him, and the walls at the training center are
concrete. And he decided he didn't want me on his back, so he kind of rubbed me
against the wall and then I had to--(laughter)
GILES: You had to get off quick, huh?
JONES: No, I had to crawl up underneath him to get out. (laughs)
GILES: Oh, did you really?
JONES: Yeah.
GILES: He pinned you in?
JONES: Yeah, he pinned me up against the wall, and I had to go down and under
him, and can't get out from under the--
GILES: Oh, my goodness.
JONES: --can't get up, and I said--
GILES: --oh horses--
JONES: --"Well, I won't get on him no more, that's it." (laughs)
GILES: Horses have personalities I'm finding--
JONES: Oh yeah, yes, but see--
GILES: --almost everybody has a story about these horses.
JONES: Yes, you see when you first bring a horse in, you have to turn
00:11:00him in the stall or turn him in the paddock or whenever you're going to--you
have to turn him both ways and get him used to turning.
GILES: Okay.
JONES: And then you put a bit in his mouth or a shifting, and you do that in
order for him to develop a sense of the mouth.
GILES: Yeah.
JONES: And that--
GILES: --so that's the way you control him?
JONES: Yeah, yeah, you have to be able to control him. If you can't--
GILES: --yeah.
JONES: --control him, you can't get out.
GILES: You don't go in.
JONES: You can't do anything--
GILES: --you don't go into the stall either.
JONES: Well, you can go in the stall, but you can't--
GILES: --but you've got to--
JONES: --get on him.
GILES: --be close to him in case--
JONES: --oh yeah--
GILES: --he decides to--
JONES: --oh yeah--
GILES: --act up--
JONES: --yeah, oh yeah.
GILES: --so you can grab the bit.
JONES: Yeah, yeah. Now, some of them's young horses are--they can be a--
GILES: --rambunctious.
JONES: They can be a trip, you know? (Giles laughs) You just have to--you just
have to know what to do with them.
GILES: Okay.
JONES: Yeah, sometimes you have to calm them down--
GILES: And how do you do that?
JONES: Well sometimes you have to give them a little tranq a little
00:12:00bit to calm them down, and sometimes they just--if you fool with them long
enough, they'll just--
GILES: --settle down.
JONES: Oh yeah.
GILES: Yeah.
JONES: They'll make up--they'll be friends with you, you know?
GILES: Okay.
JONES: So you've got--
GILES: Okay baby, I'm not winning today.
JONES: Yeah, you've got to let them win and then you've got to get them on your
side. At the same time, you've got to discipline, and usually they come around.
GILES: Do they?
JONES: Um-hm, yeah. I prefer training fillies better than colts because fillies
are easier.
GILES: Okay.
JONES: They're easier to manage. Colts, sometimes they get a little headstrong,
so you have to--
GILES: --just like young boys.
JONES: Oh yeah, they get a little headstrong and you--sometimes you have
to--(laughs)--you have to handle them more once to make them mind--
GILES: Okay.
JONES: But most of the time, they're all right.
GILES: Good.
JONES: Um-hm.
GILES: But it just takes perseverance, and--
JONES: --oh yes.
GILES: --you just really you have to work with them.
00:13:00
JONES: Yes, yes.
GILES: How many people do you have working with--say you're breaking a yearling,
what's the process there?
JONES: Well, if you're breaking a yearling, you usually try to keep one person
going because then--he has to agree with that person.
GILES: Okay.
JONES: See, he has to be able to--you know, just be--like be a friend.
GILES: Um-hm, he has to feel comfortable--
JONES: --yeah.
GILES: --with the man.
JONES: --and if he's not--
GILES: --with the person.
JONES: --then he's--you know, a lot of times, they--you just have to take time
with them.
GILES: Yeah, okay.
JONES: Um-hm. But you try to keep the same person doing it.
GILES: Okay. And then once they're broken?
JONES: Then once they're broken, you--I usual--well, I usually try to keep the
same rider--
GILES: --okay.
JONES: --until I get ready to go to the races, and the same exercise rider
because they get along better.
00:14:00
GILES: Okay.
JONES: And they know what to expect from one another.
GILES: Okay.
JONES: Um-hm.
GILES: So you put the exercise rider if you don't have a separate jockey on the
horse to run?
JONES: Yeah, um-hm, okay.
GILES: Okay.
JONES: Um-hm, um-hm, yeah.
GILES: What happens when you have to hire another jockey?
JONES: Well, a lot of times--well, just like the big races that are going on
now, they fly Mike Smith all over the country to get on certain horses. And a
lot of times, he has to feel them out them before he can--
GILES: --decide to ride.
JONES: --decide to ride. It's just like before the derby, he was supposed to
ride--Omaha Beach, and he was injured before the derby. And Mike Smith had
already told Bob Baffert and the other big trainers that that's who
00:15:00he was going to ride. Well, when that happened, he didn't have a mount, but they
found another mount--
GILES: --for him.
JONES: --for him.
GILES: Okay.
JONES: But it wasn't one of the top-notch, but he usually has four, five choices--
GILES: --yeah--
JONES: --every year.
GILES: --when he's out.
JONES: And he picks out which one--
GILES: --okay.
JONES: --he wants to do.
GILES: So they get to choose?
JONES: Yeah.
GILES: Okay.
JONES: Well, you see the big trainers, they get the top jockeys. I'm a little
trainer, so I have to do the best I can with second-best or third-best jockey.
And when you have a rider, well just take for instance the guy that rode this
horse, no one ever knew him until he started riding this horse.
GILES: And then they got him?
JONES: Oh, yeah.
GILES: They took him from you?
JONES: Well, you see--
GILES: --ah.
JONES: --he came from, I think it was Ireland, and he was milling around,
and of course, he was riding here and there, but he didn't--you don't
00:16:00top horses until--
GILES: --oh, until--
JONES: --he won on--
GILES: --he won on--
JONES: --this horse.
GILES: --this horse--
JONES: And everybody--
GILES: --and then everybody--
JONES: --wanted him.
GILES: --paid attention to him.
JONES: Yeah, everybody wanted him after that, see.
GILES: Well, you promoted his career.
JONES: Yeah, well--
GILES: --you mentored him.
JONES: --a little bit. (laughs)
GILES: Yeah, a little bit--a whole lot.
JONES: Yeah.
GILES: And what was his name, what was the--
JONES: Dean Mernagh.
GILES: Dean Mernagh.
JONES: Um-hm.
GILES: Okay, interesting.
JONES: Yeah.
GILES: Now, I have this one, I Can Still See You.
JONES: Well now, this is the one-eyed horse.
GILES: Ah. (laughs)
JONES: I named him I Can Still See You. The left eye was out.
GILES: Okay.
JONES: And see, they called it the real eye.
GILES: Yeah.
JONES: All right, the first four or five races, he ran--(coughs)--the first two
races, the horses broke out of the gate, he--like that, and he'd take off
running. Now, he'd run them down.
GILES: Okay.
JONES: And he finished----second or third the first two times and then
00:17:00I kept telling them, I tried to get a rider to take him to the inside to the
rail because when he's running if there's a horse on the inside, he's doing
this, he's turning--
GILES: --he's constantly--
JONES: --his head.
GILES: --looking.
JONES: --he's turning his head. Well, he's got to see that horse.
GILES: Right, right.
JONES: He hears him over there, and so he's looking over here.
GILES: He's looking to see him.
JONES: And finally, I had a guy coming here from Florida, Martinez, and this
rider here what is his name? I forgot his name now. Yeah. Daniel Core (??),
Core, his name is Daniel Core, that's right. I told him, I said, "Go to the
inside rail, that way he doesn't do this because there's nobody over but you."
GILES: Right, right.
JONES: And he broke out of the gate, he went to the rail, and the first time he
rode him, he finished second. The second time he rode him, he said, "Don't get
too far with him, far away from the winner's circle and it's starting
00:18:00to rain and the man is not going to stay there all day to take your picture."
GILES: Hmm, oh really?
JONES: And I said--(laughs)--yeah. I said, yeah. He was from Florida, he was a
card. Anyhow, he won the race, and he took him to the rail and just--
GILES: --and straight on up he went--
JONES: --opened up and kept going.
GILES: --okay.
JONES: There's his picture there as he won and he just kept going.
GILES: And where? He's at Turfway Park.
JONES: That's Turfway Park, used to be Latonia, that's in Florence, Kentucky.
GILES: --right, right.
JONES: Yeah, but now he--if there was--if he couldn't get inside, that's all he
did was like that--
GILES: --yeah, constantly.
JONES: But he'd be running, and he did--he passed the horses up running like that.
GILES: Really?
JONES: Yeah.
GILES: And why did you keep him?
JONES: Well, he was a gift to me.
GILES: Okay.
JONES: And because he got his eye knocked out when he was a baby, and the man
that gave him to me said, "Ah, he won't ever do anything." I said,
00:19:00"Okay," and so I started fooling with him, and I kind of liked him and he--(both
laugh)--he--but he--I could walk in front of him like that, and I said, "Follow
me," he just--he'd just keep walking.
GILES: Bless you--
JONES: --yeah.
GILES: --you had patience with him.
JONES: You have to, you have to have patience, but now, he was a special
project, and there's his blinker right there. See, he's got a bubble on the left--
GILES: --okay--
JONES: --side?
GILES: --right, to cover his eye.
JONES: --where you cover the whole eye--
GILES: --right.
JONES: --you don't want the air to get in there.
GILES: Right.
JONES: See, and you see, you don't see anything on the right side.
GILES: Right--
JONES: See he'd of just--
GILES: You had that blinded.
JONES: But he would--
GILES: --I love your choice of names for your horses. (Jones laughs) You have a
sense of humor.
JONES: Yeah, well you have to, to be in this business. (both laugh)
GILES: So we've got another one at River Downs. Who is this, Disco?
JONES: Disco Johnny. This guy Ray Chenault (??) from Paris, he owned
00:20:00him and--oh gee, that's an old picture. (laughter) What's that in '95?
BROWN: Um-hm.
JONES: Yeah, 1995.
GILES: Okay. Yeah, we can look at the hairstyles.
JONES: Yeah. (both laugh)
GILES: This is an old picture.
JONES: Yeah.
BROWN: That's his wife.
JONES: That's my wife, Juanita.
GILES: Oh, is that your wife?
JONES: Yeah, yeah.
GILES: She was involved with this too, huh?
JONES: Yeah, yeah.
GILES: How many African Americans can you name that--or just you don't need to
name everybody, but give us a total of African Americans that you know currently
are owners, trainers.
JONES: Um-hm. Well, let's see, there's Larry Demeritt--
GILES: --and he's still in Midway?
JONES: Yeah.
GILES: Okay.
JONES: He lives in Midway. Shane--his brother Shane, of course Dean
00:21:00Hayes owns horses, Chuck Hamilton trained horses. He's the one that started me
in the training. About the only ones that are living now--that's about the only
ones that are living now.
GILES: Okay.
JONES: But my grandfather started Oscar Dishman.
GILES: Oh.
JONES: And he--
GILES: --okay.
JONES: --worked on the farm with Oscar Dishman. He--my grandfather managed it,
and Oscar used to be the exercise rider.
GILES: Ah.
JONES: Um-hm.
GILES: Okay, this one says, was it Bib?
JONES: Bib--
GILES: --oh, this is the jockey that's--but the name of the horse was what?
Because she's listed Mr. Hathaway as trainer.
JONES: Yeah, and Marshall Hathaway is the trainer. All right, the jockey--
00:22:00
GILES: Was Bib somebody?
JONES: No, right here it's got--the horse's name was Bib.
GILES: Okay, oh, the horse's name was Big [Bib] but this was the jockey because
it says Jay--
JONES: --yeah.
GILES: Metalio (??) is up, which means that he--the jockey owned--is the owner.
JONES: Um-hm, yeah.
GILES: So where is your grandfather in this picture? Can you--is he at the--
JONES: He's at the end.
GILES: --is it him right there?
JONES: It's him right there standing there--
GILES: --wow.
JONES: --yeah.
GILES: This is amazing.
JONES: Yeah.
GILES: Now, you're--the Hathaway family was out of what county?
JONES: Yeah, he's kin to--
GILES: --to Isaac to--yeah.
JONES: --to Isaac Hathaway, yeah--
GILES: --yeah, the sculptor--
JONES: Yeah, they're the kin.
GILES: But you're out of Montgomery--
JONES: --Mt.--
GILES: --Mt. Sterling.
JONES: --Mt. Sterling, Montgomery County. That's where my grandfather is from,
yeah, um-hm.
GILES: So--
JONES: --yeah, he left home when he was fourteen.
GILES: Did he?
JONES: Um-hm.
GILES: And came to Lexington.
JONES: He had to go with the horses.
GILES: Yeah. (Jones laughs) That's usually how all of them say, they had to go--
JONES: --yeah.
GILES: ----with the horses--
JONES: --yeah, had to go--
GILES: --no matter what--
JONES: --with the horses, so.
GILES: So what else? I know you've got lots, but I'm still getting
00:23:00pictures here. You have a lot to tell us.
JONES: Yeah.
GILES: Summarize for us, why have you entered the business, why have you stayed,
and what do you hope to achieve?
JONES: Well, I just like working with the horses, I like training them. I said
one day, I'll be in the derby, but it doesn't look like it at my age now unless--(laughs)--I--
GILES: --you never know.
JONES: --unless I come up with a world beater. Now this horse here, I named him--
GILES: --He's Rising.
JONES: --He's Rising. He was born on Easter.
GILES: Oh.
JONES: He was born on Easter.
GILES: So this is why he has this name.
JONES: --and I named him He's Rising.
GILES: Um-hm. Does it take you long to contemplate these names, or do they just
pop in your mind?
JONES: It just comes to me. (laughs)
BROWN: What came first?
00:24:00
JONES: Now, this was Stan's Old Habits, and I didn't name him. The man that
originally owned him and named him I think he said after his cousin Stan.
GILES: Okay.
JONES: And so that's--
GILES: --that's the name you stuck--
JONES: --that's Stan's
GILES: --with.
JONES: --Old Habits, yeah, um-hm.
GILES: You tend to like gray horses.
JONES: You know for some reason, I always wind up with gray horses.
GILES: Oh, do you?
JONES: Yeah. That's him again.
GILES: Okay.
JONES: Yeah. [telephone rings] Uh-oh, that's my phone, let me turn that thing.
[telephone rings] Oh Lord. (laughs)
GILES: So you have a very unique--
JONES: --yeah.
GILES: --approach to this industry.
JONES: Oh, yeah, yeah, um-hm. Now, that trophy --
00:25:00
GILES: --oh Churchill --
JONES: --of Jerry Berry Jack--
GILES: --Downs.
JONES: --that's the one that Jerry Berry Jack when he won down at--
GILES: --okay.
JONES: --Churchill.
GILES: Oh, wow.
JONES: They gave me that trophy.
GILES: 2009.
JONES: Um-hm, they gave me that trophy.
GILES: How beautiful.
JONES: Yeah.
GILES: Wow.
JONES: Yeah.
GILES: Well, I'm glad to know you because--
JONES: --yeah.
GILES: --one of these days, I'm going to say, "I know him."
JONES: Yeah. (both laugh)
GILES: When your horse comes in, remember you've got a lot of relatives.
JONES: Oh yes, I do. (both laugh)
GILES: We'll be over [at] your house.
JONES: All right--(both laugh)--all right.
GILES: Because you're going to find that horse.
JONES: Yeah, yeah, well--
GILES: --you've had good success with so many of them--
JONES: --yeah, I've had a few successes, yes.
GILES: Then just keep on.
JONES: Yeah. Well, the thing about the position that I'm in, if I were in the
right place at the right time, I might--would have a barn for the horses like
the Pletchers and the Bafferts and all of them, which the reason
00:26:00we--the reason why they win top races, they got the best breeding in the world.
GILES: Yeah, right.
JONES: And when you have the best breeding in the world, you're supposed to win.
GILES: Right.
JONES: And you take the little man, he has to work and work--
GILES: --with what you get.
JONES: --with what he's got. And a lot of times--well, it's just like the Jerry
Berry Jack, they have some of the best horses that they paid. They had one horse
paid 1.2 million, several that they'd paid over five hundred thousand--
GILES: --goodness.
JONES: --in that race, it was a straight made, it was--
GILES: --okay.
JONES: --made an allowance.
GILES: --okay.
JONES: And at Churchill, you get the top breeding.
GILES: Okay.
JONES: Keeneland, you get the top breeding. And I beat them,
and--(laughs)--that's when they wanted to buy the horse, and I--
GILES: --oh, you wouldn't--
JONES: --should have sold them--
GILES: --sell.
JONES: --and didn't. I should have sold him. But they didn't want to
00:27:00give but two hundred thousand.
GILES: Yeah.
JONES: Well--
GILES: --you knew it was worth more.
JONES: --well when I beat a horse that they paid 1.2 million and three or four
that they paid over half million, I think he was worth three or four hundred thousand--
GILES: --my goodness.
JONES: --at least.
GILES: --really, yes.
JONES: And if they gave me that, I would have sold him but--I didn't want to--
GILES: --right.
JONES: --but I would have sold him.
GILES: You might have to take a lesson from Ed Dudley Brown if you remember--
JONES: --yeah.
GILES: --what Brown did?
JONES: Yeah, yeah.
GILES: I understand he sold them in a heartbeat.
JONES: Yeah, yeah.
GILES: They say he walked around with a pocket full of money because he--
JONES: --yeah.
GILES: --sold. Whatever won that race, somebody--
JONES: --yeah.
GILES: --offered him and he'd spy.
JONES: --yeah.
GILES: --he'd sell it.
JONES: Yeah, yeah.
GILES: I'm so sorry they did that--
JONES: --yeah.
GILES: --there's no telling what that horse would have done.
JONES: Yeah, yeah. Well now--
GILES: --goodness.
JONES: --now I have sold one or two horses, matter of fact, I sold one to a guy
that I said the horse wasn't worth any more than four or five thousand dollars,
but he took the horse home, turned her out, and waited till the next year--
00:28:00
GILES: To race her?
JONES: Brought her back and she win three or four races.
GILES: Wow.
JONES: Um-hm.
GILES: Goodness.
JONES: She won three or four races, but she had a back problem, and I said,
"Well, I don't have the time,"--
GILES: --yeah.
JONES: --so he bought her and he turned her out.
GILES: Okay.
JONES: And he didn't care--
GILES: --she did well.
JONES: --he just turned her out on his farm and just left--
GILES: --yeah--
JONES: --her alone.
GILES: --just let her alone and let her heal.
JONES: Yeah, let nature heal her, um-hm. A lot of times horses that are injured
if you turn them out, and nature will heal them.
GILES: Yeah, just give them the time because they need to--
JONES: --yeah--
GILES: --mature--
JONES: --yeah, yeah.
GILES: --you know?
JONES: Yeah--
GILES: --okay.
JONES: --yeah.
GILES: Well, thank you so very much.
JONES: --thank you--
GILES: --for coming in and bringing all your memorabilia.
JONES: Yeah.
GILES: And we have more stories to tell, and like I said, don't forget me.
JONES: Yes.
GILES: You've got lots of relatives when you win. (laughs)
JONES: Okay.
GILES: You've got to invite us to the party.
JONES: Okay. There's one other thing though, a lot of those old
00:29:00pictures my grandfather had--
GILES: --okay.
JONES: --the jockeys, I couldn't make out a lot of them, but some of them are
either Hispanic or Black.
GILES: Oh, really?
JONES: Um-hm.
GILES: Okay. And this was at Latonia?
JONES: Um-hm.
GILES: --W. Hand--Hankey (??), that was up?
JONES: Um-hm.
GILES: These are wonderful photos that you kept them so well.
JONES: Yeah.
GILES: Layout (??), jockey, R. Campbell (??)?
JONES: Um-hm.
[End of interview.]
