Interview with Lydia McCloskey, February 11, 2021

Partial Transcript: Hello. Today is February 11, 2021. My name is Jay Sztuk and I was a Peace Corps Volunteer in Fiji in 1974. Today I'm interviewing Lydia McCloskey who was a Peace Corps Volunteer in Jordan from 2009 to, uh, 2012 working in the, uh, education program.

Segment Synopsis: McCloskey had lived and worked mostly in the San Francisco Bay area. McCloskey's jobs had included teaching English as a second language and working for AT&T. Two or three years after being widowed for a second time, McCloskey backpacked across Spain for 10 weeks. Upon returning to the U.S., McCloskey decided to apply to the Peace Corps, which is something she had considered 40 years before when she first graduated from college.

Keywords: Applying; Career paths; Deaths; Decisions; Jobs; Lillian Carter; Older volunteers; San Francisco Bay Area (Calif.); Teaching English as a second language; Transition periods; Traveling

Subjects: Camino Santiago del Compostela; Emotions; International travel; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--2000-2010; Peace Corps (U.S.)--2010-2020; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Jordan; Spain; Voluntarism; Volunteer workers in education; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: Now did you--had, had--did you hear that they would--were taking, uh, more experienced volunteers?

Segment Synopsis: McCloskey indicated that she was willing to serve any place that was not significantly cold. McCloskey was offered a posting in Jordan.

Keywords: Application process; Applications; Oakland (Calif.); Peace Corps interviews; Peace Corps recruiters; Questions; Weather

Subjects: Jordan; Peace Corps (U.S.); Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: Yeah. So, were you pretty excited to get that, that assignment?

Segment Synopsis: McCloskey and her four children were excited by her posting. McCloskey's older sister was also supportive but asked some probing questions.

Keywords: Children; Excited; Family; Questions; Siblings; Support

Subjects: Emotions; Families.; Peace Corps (U.S.); Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: Our gathering point, um, for my year, for the Jordan team, was Philadelphia.

Segment Synopsis: McCloskey had a staging in Philadelphia, which was the city where she grew up. McCloskey's cohort started with about 44 trainees, of which about 40 completed their service.

Keywords: Cohorts; Philadelphia (Pa.); Siblings

Subjects: Childhood; Jordan; Peace Corps (U.S.); Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: Was this, was this group very di, diverse? Young and old? Black and white?

Segment Synopsis: McCloskey's cohort included older people, Returned Peace Corps Volunteers, married couples, recent college graduates, and a few people of color.

Keywords: Cohorts; Older Americans; Older volunteers; People of color; Returned Peace Corps Volunteers

Subjects: Peace Corps (U.S.); Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: Was there anything notable about your application process?

Segment Synopsis: To McCloskey, the application process seemed to take a long time. Before joining the Peace Corps, McCloskey had traveled overseas. Also, McCloskey has returned to Jordan since completing her service.

Keywords: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID‑19); Friends; Future plans; Returning; Traveling; Waiting periods

Subjects: COVID-19 (Disease); International travel; Jordan; Peace Corps (U.S.); Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: Uh, and you said you did your, your training in Jordan, huh?

Segment Synopsis: After several days in Amman, McCloskey's cohort went to Al al-Bayt University for pre-service training. During weekends, small groups of trainees were sent to villages to live individually with a host family.

Keywords: Al al-Bayt University; Amman (Jordan); Arabic (Language); Cultural training; Host families; Language training; Mafraq (Jordan); Technical training; Traveling; Villages

Subjects: International travel; Language and languages; Peace Corps (U.S.); Universities and colleges; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: So, how, how did you feel when you landed there in the country?

Segment Synopsis: McCloskey felt some re-assurance from socializing with younger people during staging but had never traveled to the Middle East before. McCloskey felt comfortable in Amman and found the cultural differences interesting. McCloskey noted that relatively few women were seen out in public and were subservient to the men. McCloskey found the people curious but welcoming. McCloskey was also worried about her ability to learn a new language. McCloskey admits that her fluency in Arabic never got past a basic level. McCloskey found that many younger Jordanians had a good grasp of English grammar and were anxious to improve their conversational skill in English.

Keywords: Amman (Jordan); Anxious; Arabic (Language); Attitudes; Challenges; Clothing; Cultural differences; Fluency; French (Language); History; Language skills; Latin (Language); Local people; Locals; Mafraq (Jordan); Male-dominated society; Philadelphia (Pa.); Professors; Questions; Socializing; Staging; Traveling; Villages; Women; Young people

Subjects: Emotions; Israel; Language and languages; Middle East; Palestine; Peace Corps (U.S.); Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: Any, any real memorable, uh, events or, uh, anything memorable about training?

Segment Synopsis: The members of McCloskey's cohort bonded during pre-service training and supported each other during their service. The Peace Corps provided them with cell phones which made better communication possible.

Keywords: Ages; Cell phones; Cohorts; Communication; Diversity; Support systems

Subjects: Interpersonal relations; Peace Corps (U.S.); Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: After training, uh, where did, where did you go?

Segment Synopsis: McCloskey was assigned to the town of Al Husun. McCloskey was an English teacher at the community college there. Specifically, McCloskey was to design and implement an English conversation program for students expected to work as supervisors for a large, Arab, heavy construction firm. When McCloskey left after 2 years, her curriculum was taken over by a Jordanian professor. McCloskey's students were all males and were committed to their studies as they were guaranteed a job afterwards and a job was needed to get married.

Keywords: Accomplishments; Al Husun (Jordan); Amman (Jordan); Arabic (Language); Distance; English (Language); Irbid (Jordan); Jobs; Marriage; Professors; Students; Sustainability; Teaching English as a foreign language; Techniques

Subjects: Jordan; Language and languages; Manners and customs; Middle East; Peace Corps (U.S.); Syria; Teachers; Teaching; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: So, the--I walk in the first day and I put my books in the office they gave me and walked into the classroom and everybody was standing.

Segment Synopsis: McCloskey needed to get used to having students who had mostly learned by rote. McCloskey needed to get her students to converse in English fluently in order to interact professionally and socially with workers from many other countries. The training program for McCloskey's students lasted 11 months. McCloskey was the only foreigner on the campus which served several thousand students.

Keywords: Acclimation; Adaptability; Age ranges; Al-Husan (Jordan); Behavior; Classes; Foreigners; Questions; Second Goal; Teaching styles

Subjects: Acculturation; Indonesia; Malaysia; Manners and customs; Parents; Peace Corps (U.S.); Philippines; Teachers; Teaching; Techniques; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: After I had been there about, oh, seven months--my program lasted, uh--we started at nine and lunch break was noon....

Segment Synopsis: Eventually, McCloskey agreed to teach an English conversation class for students who were not in the job training program. Accordingly, the school gave McCloskey an auditorium with 250 students to teach. McCloskey also agreed to a Peace Corps request to teach English conversation at a local community center three times a week.

Keywords: Class sizes; Community involvement; Teaching English as a foreign language

Subjects: Peace Corps (U.S.); Teachers; Teaching; Voluntarism; Volunteer workers in education; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: Um, so, Jordanians live in basically concrete, um, housing.

Segment Synopsis: McCloskey describes her apartment. When McCloskey first arrived at her work site, her apartment was empty and she was informed that she would need to wait 4 days until her boss could take her shopping for furniture. McCloskey was told that there were other white people living a few blocks away. When McCloskey found them, they turned out to be Mormon missionaries and they gave her three blankets provided by their church.

Keywords: Belongings; Foreigners; Living alone; Living arrangements; Living situation; Utah

Subjects: Jordan; Non-governmental organizations; Peace Corps (U.S.); Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: Older men and women are deeply respected.

Segment Synopsis: In Jordan, McCloskey was afforded respect as an older person and as a professor. Being a widow, McCloskey was also free from many traditional gender roles. McCloskey notes that numerous younger, female Volunteers were sexually harassed in Jordan. Volunteers in Jordan usually lived alone. But the Volunteers were taught that problems could be lessened by establishing a relationship with the village sheik or one's landlord who could provide some protection.

Keywords: Adjustment; Al Husun (Jordan); Amman (Jordan); Arrangements; California; Changes; Clothing; Criticism; Cultural differences; Cultural training; Distance; Gender roles; Independence; Irbid (Jordan); Preparation; Problems; Professors; Relationships; Safety; Sex discrimination; Socializing; Stereotypes; Transportation; Treatment of women; Villages

Subjects: Jordan; Lifestyles; Manners and customs; Older people; Peace Corps (U.S.); Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: I tried to go somewhere every weekend. Sometimes to visit Peace Corps folks but mostly, there were two or three families that, uh, just really took me in.

Segment Synopsis: On weekends, McCloskey often traveled to visit other Volunteers or families of her students. The Volunteers, especially those who were people of color, found themselves individuals of interest to the local people. McCloskey touches on the four people from her cohort who went home early, in part, because of acculturation difficulties.

Keywords: Acclimation; African Americans; Amman (Jordan); Asian Americans; Black Americans; Family; Friends; History; Invitations; King Abdullah; King Hussein; Latinx; Leaving; Local people; Locals; Prejudice; Problems; Second Goal; Site visits; Socializing; Stereotypes; Students; Third Goal

Subjects: Acculturation; Israel; Jordan; Minorities; Peace Corps (U.S.); Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: I want to go back to this secondary job, uh, that you had for--just for a minute.

Segment Synopsis: McCloskey explains that the Knowledge Station was part of a government effort to make people computer literate. Over time, the site was used for other programs as well.

Keywords: Animal husbandry; Computers; Education programs; Healthcare; Inoculations; Rural areas; Socializing; Technology; Villages

Subjects: Jordan; Peace Corps (U.S.); Teachers; Teaching; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: Peace Corps, they outfitted us very quickly with a refrigerator, small fridge, you know the little stove top thing.

Segment Synopsis: McCloskey describes some of the amenities Peace Corps provided for her living situation. Water was brought in by the government trucks weekly for a fee.

Keywords: California; Cultural differences; Jerry Brown; King Abdullah; Living arrangements; Living situation

Subjects: Jordan; Lifestyles; Peace Corps (U.S.); Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: Now, the--we were warned about some dangers, by the way. We had many, um, Jewish Volunteers.

Segment Synopsis: Jewish Volunteers were warned not to talk about their religion except with people they completely trusted.

Keywords: Dangers; Jewish people; Jewish volunteers; Peace Corps directors; Peace Corps staff; Safety

Subjects: Interpersonal relations.; Jordan; Peace Corps (U.S.); Religion; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: I'm wondering, a, a, around that time, I think the Peace Corps was actually kind of getting into some gen, gender equity training in some countries.

Segment Synopsis: McCloskey describes the school system in Jordan. When McCloskey was in Jordan, there was already equal education for girls, however there were other gender-related issues, such as arranged marriage.

Keywords: Scared; School systems

Subjects: Emotions; Jordan; Manners and customs; Marriage; Peace Corps (U.S.); School management and organization; Teachers; Teaching; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: So, did you get to travel much outside of your community and see other parts of Jordan or the Middle East?

Segment Synopsis: McCloskey traveled extensively in Jordan. Travel by bus was very affordable and safe.

Keywords: Al al-Bayt University; Amman (Jordan); Kerak Castle (Jordan); Petra (Jordan); Safety; Site visits; Villages

Subjects: Iraq; Jordan; Manners and customs; Peace Corps (U.S.); Universities and colleges; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: What did you like most about Jordan?

Segment Synopsis: In Jordan, McCloskey liked the local hospitality, the weather, and the scenery. McCloskey appreciated the family-centered lifestyle and the public buses. McCloskey regrets her limited fluency in Arabic. McCloskey is grateful for the friendships she made with the other Volunteers in her cohort.

Keywords: Arabic (Language); Buses; California; Cell phones; Cohorts; Deaths; Emails; Family; Fluency; Gender roles; Language barriers; Local people; Locals; Regrets; Returned Peace Corps Volunteers; Site visits; Special occasions; Traveling; Weather

Subjects: Interpersonal relations; Language and languages; Lifestyles; Peace Corps (U.S.); Voluntarism; Volunteers; Yemen

Partial Transcript: So there wasn't any time during your, your two-plus years there that, uh--where you got discouraged or felt like you just couldn't take it or--

Segment Synopsis: McCloskey comments that having been widowed twice has made her resilient. McCloskey feels that the older Volunteers gave strength and stability to others in the cohort.

Keywords: Cohorts; Older volunteers

Subjects: Deaths; Peace Corps (U.S.); Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: It's very important that we don't take somebody's job. So, they were all assistants in an existing teacher's classroom.

Segment Synopsis: McCloskey points out that the other Volunteers in the English language program acted as assistants rather than assuming a classroom teacher's role. The Volunteers' role was to improve the skills of existing local teachers of English. McCloskey feels fortunate that her assignment allowed her to use both her experience as a teacher and her experience in the business world.

Keywords: Co-teachers; Goals; Improvements; Peace Corps staff; Skills; Teacher training; Teaching English as a foreign language

Subjects: Emotions; Peace Corps (U.S.); Teachers; Teaching; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: Alright. So, at the end, you extended a little bit, you said to train the...

Segment Synopsis: McCloskey agreed to extend her service to help with technical training for the next group of trainees in the English teaching program, the fifteenth cohort sent to Jordan. During part of this pre-service training, McCloskey shared housing in Mafraq with another Volunteer from her cohort who was also extending.

Keywords: Al al-Bayt University; Amman (Jordan); Close of Service; Cohorts; Friends; Mafraq (Jordan); Pre-service training; Roommates; Teaching English as a foreign language; Technical training; Techniques

Subjects: Peace Corps (U.S.); Teachers; Teaching; Universities and colleges; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: I think it's an astounding experience.

Segment Synopsis: McCloskey talks about the impact of mixing volunteers of varying ages. She talks about the impact of Peace Corps on the host countries as well as the U.S.

Keywords: Ages; Cultural exchange; Second Goal; Third Goal

Subjects: Interpersonal relations; Peace Corps (U.S.); Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: Well, it's been 8, 8 plus years now since, uh, since you left Jordan.

Segment Synopsis: McCloskey is still in contact with some members of her cohort. McCloskey has also returned to Jordan and visited friends there and noted changes in the lifestyle caused by the military conflict in Syria. Subsequently, McCloskey underwent training from the Alternatives to Violence Project and then returned to Jordan again with two other facilitators to share the program with people there.

Keywords: Activities; Borders; California; Changes; Cohort; Contact; Deaths; Differences; Friends; Grants; Illness; Irbid (Jordan); Learning; London (England); Nile River; Plans; Regional conflict; Returning; Sickness; Techniques; Traveling; Volunteering; Wars; Workshops

Subjects: Egypt; Finance; Great Britain; International travel; Interpersonal relations; Jordan; Lifestyles; Non-governmental organizations; Nonprofit organizations; Peace Corps (U.S.); Syria; Teachers; Villages; Voluntarism; Volunteers; World politics

Partial Transcript: If you have a spirit of adventure, if you're willing to have a very open mind and to learn as well as teach, it is a terrific opportunity.

Segment Synopsis: McCloskey recommends the Peace Corps to those looking for new experiences.

Keywords: Flexibility

Subjects: Peace Corps (U.S.); Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: Oh, I trained two of my bosses, my Jordanian bosses. We trained in the AVP program.

Segment Synopsis: McCloskey hopes to introduce the Alternatives to Violence project to refugee camps in Jordan as others had done in Africa. For the initial visit, the Jordanians preferred that the facilitators work with Jordanians, which they did.

Keywords: Contact; Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID‑19); Emigration and immigration; Future plans; Goals; Immigrants; Non-governmental organizations; Nonprofit organizations; Peace Corps Response; Questions; Traveling

Subjects: Africa; COVID-19 (Disease); International travel; Interpersonal relations; Jordan; Kuwait; Palestine; Peace Corps (U.S.); Syria; Voluntarism; Volunteers