Interview with Carla Carlton, April 19, 2021

KLING: Hello, my name is Sharah Kling and as a student in Dr. Fernheimer's Bourbon Oral History Course in Spring 2021, I'm conducting this interview as part of my work for the class in the Women in Bourbon Oral History Project. Today is April nineteenth, 2021, and it's my great honor and pleasure to be interviewing Carla Carlton, using TheirStory, here in Kentucky. Thank you so much for joining me today. For the--

CARLTON: Thank you for having me.--(laughs)--

KLING: --Id you state your name at birth?

CARLTON: Yes, my name--

KLING: --at birth, yes.

CARLTON: --is Carla Harris Carlton. I'm sorry, Carla Harris Carlton.

KLING: Wonderful. When and where were you born? Well, I guess we got when. --(both laugh)--

CARLTON: Right. I was born in [audio cuts out]

KLING: Wonderful. And tell me a little bit about your family background. Where were your parents--I'm sorry, what were your parents' names and occupations?

CARLTON: My father's name was Carl Harris, and he was an electrician. And my mother's name, uh, was Joyce Harris and she worked as--she worked various jobs. Um, she worked for-- as an administrative assistant at the general--

KLING: I'm going to stop you for one sec.

CARLTON: Okay.

KLING: Something's wrong with the bandwidth. I have like no picture of you all of a sudden.

CARLTON: Oh.

KLING: I know. Uh, let me--I have a little--this is why they say we have the two hour thing.

CARLTON: Yeah. --(both laugh)--

KLING: Do you see anything on your end as far as your internet connes--connection being an issue at all?

CARLTON: No, it seems like it's fine. It's says it's connected, and I've got the internet and I'm fairly close to our Wi-Fi source--

KLING: And--

CARLTON: --so.

KLING: --Hm, okay, let me check here. And do you--you see me fine, you can hear me fine, correct?

CARLTON: I do see you fine. Um, you--you froze a little bit in that question when you asked me my name and date of birth, which is why I just, kind of, sat here. There was a bit of a lag, so.

KLING: Hm, okay, well. Ope, now you've just popped back on.--(Carlton laughs)--Okay, so what we'll do is, we'll do it again I'm--and then,we're--we're just going to go ahead and start the question with about your--your family. I'll just go from there--

CARLTON: Okay,--

KLING: --and we'll just start over--

CARLTON: --all right.

KLING: --at that point.

KLING: Okay, so we're going to talk a little about your childhood and family for a little bit. When and where were you born?

CARLTON: I was born on July sixth, 1966 in Louisville, Kentucky.

KLING: Tell me a little bit about your family background. What were your parents' names and occupations?

CARLTON: My father's name was Carl Harris and he was an electrician 00:03:00who worked on construction projects. Um, and my mother's name was Joyce, Joyce Harris, and she was an administrative assistant for, um, General Electric, um, the big corporation here in Louisville. She also worked for a couple of uh, printing companies, and then, in the last part of her career, she was an insurance agent.

KLING: Wonderful. And--see, where were they born?

CARLTON: My mother was born in Louisville, as well. I'm a third-generation Louisvillian. And my father was born in uh, southern Indiana, um, in a place called Central Barren, in Harris-Harrison County.

KLING: And do you have any siblings? If so, could you tell me how many and their names and ages?

CARLTON: Sure. I have one sibling. I have a sister. Her name is Deanna Harris, and she is fifty-two years old.

KLING: Wonderful. Tell me about your experiences growing up in Kentucky.

CARLTON: Um, well, as I said, I--I grew up in Louisville, Kentucky. 00:04:00Um, I, uh, was a part of the generation of kids here in Louisville who went through the desegregation of the local schools, um, through bussing. That was a big part of my childhood. Um, there were lots of, um, protests and, and, uh, you know, ri--some riots. I didn't really go through much of that, but I do remember that I was starting fourth grade that year and we had to wait for instruction to start for about two weeks before everything settled down and we had our full, um, number of kids in the class. Um, I was--you know, I had a--I had a happy childhood, um, very blue collar childhood. And I was the first, uh, member of my family to go to college.

KLING: Wonderful. Um, could you tell me what it was like in Louisville with, um, bourbon growing up? Like, um, Whiskey Row, and stuff?

CARLTON: Yeah. When I was growing up, I didn't know anything about Whiskey Row, um, you know, I was growing up in, um, you know, the seventies. Um, 00:05:00the--the bourbon history of Louisville had, um, kind of, subsided, I guess, in some ways. Um, you know, after Prohibition, a lot of Whiskey Row went away and a lot of the production of whiskey moved from Whiskey Row, which is downtown along the riverfront, out to, um, a little, uh, incorporated city called Shively, so most of that activity was taking place there. Um, now, I was aware of that. I don't know that I was aware it was bourbon, but my grandmother lived in Shively, and so, when I would go to visit her, we would drive past the whiskey warehouses. And I don't remember my parents ever really talking about what they were, but I remember that smell. You know, I just thought that was an amazing, wonderful smell, because I was smelling the angel's share of the bourbon. Um, and, you know, the buildings themselves were just these buildings with little, tiny windows. I mean, they almost look like prisons. I don't know what I thought they were. But, um, but that's--that's kind of, I guess, my impression of bourbon, you know, when I was growing up. I didn't actually drink bourbon until college. Um, I don't have the Kentuckian story that a lot of 00:06:00Kentuckians have of my parents, you know, rubbing bourbon on my gums when I was teething, or making hot toddies when I was sick because my parents didn't drink. Um, my dad was a teetotaler. He'd had some alcoholism in his family, and he'd seen what that did to those people. And so, he chose not to drink at all. And my mother, in support of him, also didn't drink alcoholic spirits. And I was raised Presbyterian, so we didn't even drink wine at communion, we had grape juice. So, um, my exposure to alcohol was--was pretty limited until I got to college. And my first--uh, first bourbon was Maker's Mark.

KLING: Wow, okay. What did you want to be when you grow up? What--what did you want, when you were thinking as a kid that you wanted to be when you grew up?

CARLTON: I think, um, there was a short period of time where I wanted to be an oceanographer. Um, I don't know exactly why. I think we just studied--studied the ocean in a unit and I thought that was really awesome. Um, but 00:07:00about, um, really my firs--freshman year of high school--I was always a good English student and I always love reading and writing. And my freshman year of high school I joined the high school newspaper. And the adviser said, you know, "You could--you could do this for a living. You could be a writer for a living." And I thought, "Wow, I can get paid to do this?" And so, from that period on, I pretty much knew I wanted to be, you know, a newspaper journalist. Um, so, I--eventually, my senior year of high school, I was editor of my newspaper--my high school newspaper, The Paw Print, we were the Panthers. And, um, then, I went to school in uh, Western Kentucky--at Western Kentucky University, in Bowling Green, Kentucky, and majored in journalism and English, um, joined the college newspaper. My senior year of college I was editor-in-chief of that paper and, um, you know, then I went into journalism. So, I guess unlike a lot of little kids, I didn't really change--change that idea of a whole lot from the time I decided I wanted to be a writer.

KLING: Great. Let's see. Now, we're going to move on to talk a little bit more about your adult life. I understand from your LinkedIn profile, you attended Western Kentucky University from 1984 to 1980.

CARLTON: Mhm.

KLING: What motivated you to study journalism at Western Kentucky University, which you've, kind of, talked about a little bit.

CARLTON: Yeah. Um, Western Kentucky University has a great reputation for great journalism. Um, and I visited a couple of schools. Um, I looked at Indiana University, which is also a fine journalism school. I just, I guess at the time I felt like the campus was a little bigger than what I was looking for. And when I visited Western, um, you know, it just felt like--it just felt like where I was supposed to be, you know, it had a little bit of that, um, feel of the IU [Indiana University] the old--older buildings, um, but it was just a little bit smaller. I think the-- I think the enrollment then was about thirteen thousand. So, it's not super small, but not super big. Um, and it just felt like a--a good place to be. And I knew it had a great reputation for journalism. So, 00:09:00um, and I also had a scholarship there, which was a big motivating factor. Because as I mentioned, you know, my parents were--you know, we were--we weren't, uh, we were well enough off, but, you know, we--we made too much money to really aff--, you know, afford a really expensive school, but not enough to qualify for scholarships. So, that had something, you know, um, that played into my decision. But, um, you know, I think it was a great decision because had a wonderful--uh, wonderful education there. I met my husband there, um, you know, and I feel like it was--it was the place where I was meant to be, to study journalism.

KLING: Great. So, you mentioned you had a scholarship there. What was your scholarship for?

CARLTON: Um, I was actually a National Merit finalist, um, and a National Merit semifinalist. And so, the scholarship was a fu--pretty much a full scholarship to--to Western. Um, I had to pay for some books but, you know, my tuition and my room and board were covered.

KLING: Well, that's great. It definitely helps with education. 00:10:00--(both laugh)--

CARLTON: It does.

KLING: Um, where did you land your first job, and how, after you got out of college?

CARLTON: I was--I was very fortunate. Um, I had done--I did several internships, um, while I was in college. I interned at the St. Petersburg Times in Florida as a copy editor. Um, I interned at the Courier-Journal in Louisville the summer after my junior year as a reporter. And then--then, I graduated and the summer after my senior year, I was an intern at the Chicago Tribune, also as a reporter. But right before I left for Chicago, um, a great professor of mine, Jim Ausenbaugh taught editing, he had worked at the Courier-Journal for years and he said, you know, "You really need to go and take the copy editing test, you know, and try to get a job there," and I think he put in a good word for me. And so, about halfway through the summer, um, I got a call from the Courier offering me a job as a edit--as a copy editor. And so, I took it, and I finished my internship and went right to work at the Courier-Journal, which was really unusual at the time. They didn't hire a lot of people right 00:11:00out of college, so I'm--I'm really thankful to, uh, to Mr. Ausenbaugh who has now passed on, but he, um, I think, was--was pretty instrumental in at least getting my foot in the door there.

KLING: That's great. What other roles did you have there at the Courier-Journal?

CARLTON: Um, I worked at the Courier just shy of nineteen years and, um, I was an editor the entire time. I--I went from the copy desk to the regional desk, the Courier used to have bureaus across the state, and so, I was the editor back in the--in Louisville who was, you know, taking--taking their stories and--and editing them and getting them in the paper. Um, I went from that job to the metro desk, which handled, you know, the Louisville news, um, and then, I moved from there to the neighborhoods desk, which was a little more local. And then, my last job there--and probably my favorite--was arts and entertainment editor, um, where I supervised a staff of twelve and we produced, um, a Friday entertainment tabloid, a Saturday tabloid, lifestyle , kind of, 00:12:00tabloid, in the Sunday arts section, as well as a travel section.

KLING: That sounds very-- interesting--

CARLTON: Mhm.

KLING: --interesting. What was it like to be a woman in journalism in the late eighties through the early 2000s?

CARLTON: Um, I--I think it was-- I never had any trouble. I think it was um,--there had been several groundbreaking women, um, at the Courier-Journal, including Irene Nolan, who was managing editor. Um, and I had some good mentors there who were women. So, I feel like, you know, I never felt, you know, disrespected or less than, you know, I think I got lots of great opportunities. I mean, I think I worked hard for them, too, but, um, you know, it-- before--before newspapers, unfortunately, started, kind of, collapsing as they are doing now, it was a great place to work. I mean, it was--it was, you know, a great staff, such creative people. Um, you know, I felt like we were doing a really important job, um, you know, and I still think journalism is just an important function in a democracy. Um, you know. And then, we were 00:13:00having fun, too. I mean, you know, I don't guess entertainment news is an important function in a democracy--(laughs)--but it was a lot of fun. You know, we covered a lot of local stories. Um, but yeah, I felt like I was always respected there, always had opportunities to advance um, and, you know, it was--it was great fun right up until the very end when I realized that, you know, it was just going to get harder and more stressful, and we were going to have to do more and more with less and less people and I needed to make a change.

KLING: You mentioned you had some mentors.

CARLTON: Mhm.

KLING: Could you tell me a little more about them, there at the Courier-Journal?

CARLTON: Uh, yes, I had, um,--I'd say probably the one I remember the most was, her name is Sandy Dewar (??), and she was the business editor. And we just, um--I don't think there was really a formal, you know, mentorship program, but, um, I admired her and her work, and so, we would go to lunch, um, you know, and she was somebody I could bounce ideas off of. Um, when I worked in neighborhoods, um, the neighborhoods editor there was Jean Porter, 00:14:00and she was--when she was promoted to city editor, I worked with a woman named Veda Morgan, who's now news editor at the Courier. She's still there. And, you know, they were just great people to work with, you know, um, it's true that, you know, women, um, have a great deal of responsibility for childcare. So, in that way, it was great to work with women who understood when you had to go, you know, pick your kid up from daycare or whatever, you know, or leave to go to a doctor's appointment. But, you know, I also worked for, um, a man named Hunt Helm, (??) um, when I was on the metro desk who was very understanding and, you know, um, very much, uh, appreciative of what that took, you know, to be, um, working full-time and raising children at the same time. Which is not to say that my husband is--was not a full partner in that because he definitely is. He does all the cooking and everything so,--(laughs)-- um, but, you know, it's just a lot to juggle for men or women, when you have kids and you're trying to do a pretty demanding job, like journalism, that's not--not--actually 00:15:00rarely nine to five.

KLING: I can imagine, yeah.--(laughs)--Um, let's see. So, tell me a little more about what it was like to be the-- the editor, I guess. With the last position you had, do you feel like that one was the most, um, fulfilling, or would you pick a different one?

CARLTON: I think it was the most fulfilling because, um, I was, you know, I felt like I was in charge of these complete sections, from conception to production. Um, I'm really interested in pop culture and, you know, um, I never wanted to be like the next Woodward and Bernstein, you know, and do a lot of that, kind of, gotcha journalism. I think that's important, but I was--, you know, I've always been interested in movies and TV and pop culture and, you know, art. Um, we covered--Louisville has a fantastic theater and arts scene, and we--we were covering that. We were doing reviews of live music, and I was coordinating all of that and then, you know, um, it doesn't exist anymore, but I was 00:16:00editor of The Scene Magazine which I had read since I was a kid. Um, you know, growing up in Louisville, we got the--we go the Louisville Times and the Courier-Journal, the morning and the afternoon paper, and, um, you know, the Courier-Journal was the kind of, important, you know, stayed newspaper, and the Louisville Times, the afternoon paper, was the one that had, you know, kind of, personality, I thought, you know. And, um, so, on Saturday, so you would get the Saturday Scene Magazine, which had, you know, feature stories, comics, um, you know, the food reviews, you know, all that--all that kind of, fun stuff. And so, for me to get to be editor of that, after reading that for my whole life was a--was a really big thrill. Um, you know, and I just had such a--we had such a talented staff of, you know, writers and reviewers and, you know, it was just a lot of fun to put that together and pull together, um, you know, three quality products like that. And the travel section was something that happened under my watch, um, so, we created that from scratch. And, uh, we did it in 00:17:00collaboration with, I think, three other Gannett newspapers and we, you know, each person--each paper would take the lead on the cover story for a week and then we would share content. And it probably was the most popular thing that I ever worked on at the paper. I mean, people would call up and just say how much they liked that section, which is unheard of, you know, I was used to picking up the phone and having somebody say, "Na-na-na, but you messed this up," and people would just call and say, "I just love this section," and I was like, "Oh, that's what praise is like," you know, I mean, you know, people just tend not to call when they like something. So, that was--that was a lot of fun. And that's, I guess, tangentially how I got into writing about bourbon, um, because the Kentucky Bourbon Trail had launched while I was doing that job and, you know, we wrote stories about that and about visiting distilleries, and, um, you know, it was something that boom--that was starting to grow. And so, when I left the Courier, that was something that I wanted to continue to--to write about.

KLING: Great. What would you say would be some of your biggest challenges that you faced while you were working there?

CARLTON: Um, I would say tha--probably just juggling my work life and my home life with kids. Um, uh, when we had our second child, in particular, my husband who also--I mentioned earlier we met on The College Heights Herald, the newspaper at Western, and he graduated a year before I did. We were both editors. We were one of the few Herald couples who were both editors of the College Heights Herald. Um, and he was more interested--he was always more interested in um, government and cov--covering government, and so he worked at the, uh,--when we first married, we lived in Shelbyville, which is a town in between Frankfort, which is the state capital, and Louisville, where I was working, and we commuted the opposite way. Um, and so, when we got pregnant with our first child, we decided to consolidate things and move to 00:19:00Louisville. And at that point, he left the newspaper business, and got a job at, um, a public relations agency, Doe-Anderson, in Louisville. And then, when we decided to have our second child, we thought, "Well, one of us is gonna maybe downshift a little bit here, you know, just to help out." Um, and Doe-Anderson had handled the, um, campaign when Louisville and Jefferson County combined into a metro government. They handled the public affairs um, campaign for that. And through that, my husband had worked with Jerry Abramson, who was a long-time Louisville mayor. And when the--when the um, the campaign the ma-- you know, the consolation campaign, when the merger campaign was successful, Jerry Abramson asked my husband to come work for him. He was elected the first metro mayor, and he asked my husband to come work for him as a communications person in his office. And my husband-- you know, I was getting ready to go back from maternity leave to take on this job of being arts editor. And so, my husband at first--God bless him--he wasn't even going to consider this job, and then, when 00:20:00he told me about it, I said, "You have to take this job because this is where your whole career has been leading. And it's going to be tough, but we can do it." So, I don't know how we did it, but, you know, I would--he was helping to build a new government. I was taking one kid to daycare, dropping off the baby--thankfully at that point, there was a daycare right across from the Courier, right across the street, so I would take the little--take our baby, our son, to daycare, come to work, go across the street to feed him, come back in the afternoons and pump--(laughs)--not to get too, you know, TMI, but, you know, and freeze that for the next day, and supervise twelve people. And it was a lot. It was a lot. Um, that was probably the most challenging. And somehow, we got through it and I would say, you know, people--everybody should--should hire working moms because we have to get it done. I mean, we're the most efficient people I think you could have on a staff because you can't fool around. You've got to get your stuff done so you can get out and pick up your kids. 00:21:00And so, we did, and it got easier, you know, as the kids got older. But that was probably the most challenging part of--of working there.--(laughs)--

KLING: Yeah, I can understand and relate, having, uh, been married and have children myself. What advice would you give other women to have a good work-life balance, especially in this day and age?

CARLTON: Yeah, this day and age. Um, well, I would say that, you know, a lot of it, uh, is having a good partner, um, you know, who's--who's willing to help out. And definitely, I had that, and I still have that, you know, my husband has always been there at least fifty percent, if not more. Um, but I think you also just have to advocate for yourself, you know, and just--um, you know, I--I've--I had bosses who, when I got up to leave at five o'clock to go pick up my kids, would sort of look at their watches because other people were still there. And I thought--you know, I finally just addressed that head on and said, "Look that person's still there because they don't have kids and they can stay here until eight o'clock tonight and it doesn't matter. You know, I have to be somewhere, and I'm done. Like, all my work is done." You know, um, the old days 00:22:00where you came and spent the whole day in the office, you know, the wh--i--in--and, you know, that's not necessarily the way it is now. Um, that being said, with COVID, um, and working from home, you certainly can work twenty-four hours a day. I mean, it's really easy to lose track of what you're doing, um, in certain jobs, of course. Um, so, you really just--I think you just have just have to, you know, advocate for yourself and just also realize it's going to be really hard for--for a little while, but it does get better.--(both laugh)--

KLING: It does. They eventually get older, right?

CARLTON: Yes.

KLING:--(laughs)-- Um, let's see. You--you've really talked pretty good--I had a few questions about work-life balance but you answered most of them already. So, um, how did you work with writers under you to achieve your visions or goals for the paper?

CARLTON: I think I'm a pretty good editor, um, in that I think, yeah 00:23:00know, I've seen--I've seen-- bad examples of being editors and good examples of being an editor, and I think--I think the best editors help writers improve their own writing, and their own reporting. Um, you don't go in and just rewrite something, and--you know, I think that's demoralizing and I think it also doesn't teach anybody anything. So, I tried to be more of a coach. Um, now, of course, sometimes you're on a deadline and don't have time to, you know, sit there, and say--you don't always have time to kick it back to the writer and say, "Why don't we do this?" You know, sometimes, especially when I was covering--when I was editing, like, legislative copy--the Courier used to cover the legislature, you know, every day, every bill that moved, um, and a lot of times, we just had to smack that into the paper. So,--but I would try to go back afterwards, if I had done a lot to a story and say, "This is why I did this, this, this," you know. And then, also just realizing that writing is a completely subjective, um, art form. I mean, I think it is an art form, and I think that journalists um, consider themselves as creative, artistic 00:24:00people. They're name is on it. Um, you know, they want to be proud of what they've produced. And there's no right way or wrong way, really, to write a story. Especially a feature story. I mean, you know, you can have ten different writers write the same--about the same topic and you might get ten completely different approaches and you might like one of them better but, you know, none of them is wrong. Um, so, that's what I--even--even on the college paper I--I uh--when I was editor, I had to speak with a couple of editors--section editors under me, because they were just completely rewriting stories, because they weren't written the way they would have written them. And, you know, I'd just say, "If it's wrong, certainly correct it, but if it's just not how you might have said it, you know, take a--take a light hand on that," um, you know, and with younger reporters, again, trying to be coach, you know, talking about stories beforehand as much as possible. Especially with feature stories, we had time to do that. Um, you know, and so that they would come back with all the information that they needed. Um, but, yeah, I think--I think that 00:25:00the best editors I worked with are the ones that, um, you know, let me make the corrections and explain what they were doing. When I was an intern at the Courier, um, that summer, we had a--I was doing mostly news, but we had a--there was an assistant city editor named Jim Adams, and he had been an investigative reporter. And he was--you know, my goal that summer was to write a story that he wouldn't have a question in, and I don't think I ever really succeeded but, you know, he just would come at things from a different perspective from me. You know, he'd read my story and say, "Well, what about this?" And I'd think, "Oh, I didn't even think of that," you know, so that was really--that was really educational. But he also sat there with me while he did the edit so I could see what he was doing, so I could learn from that. Um, and I could also see why he was a good, um, investigative reporter because when you'd come back to debrief him on your interview, he would ask you a question and then just, kind of, sit there and you'd find yourself going, "And, uh, ----------(??)" you know, so I can see why that works a lot when you're interviewing somebody, if you're just quiet for a little while, they--generally people want to fill the 00:26:00silence, so they'll just start babbling. He probably would have been a good attorney, you know, "Yes, I did kill my wife." But, um, you know, he was--he was a great example, I thought, to me, of how to be a good editor.

KLING: It sounds like the--the mentoring is a good trait for a boss, from what you're saying.

CARLTON: I really think so. I think, you know, the Courier had um,--and, well, the St. Petersburg Times as well, they both had, uh, intern programs where there was a coordinator and there were weekly meetings, and they'd bring people in to talk to us, and they really tried to make it, uh, an educational experience. Then I got to The Chicago Tribune, and they were like, "Sink or swim, you know, we don't have time to hold your hand," you know, so I was really glad I'd gone through that experience at the Courier, especially before I got to Chicago, because otherwise, I think that would have been completely overwhelming. Um, I don't think that people mentor enough, and I--I--I find myself falling into this trap, sometimes too, when you have somebody who does a really good job, it's easy not to tell--it's easy to forget to tell them that, um, because 00:27:00you're focused on people who are struggling or who need more work. But again, it's a creative thing, it's a--there's a lot of ego, not in a bad way, but you know, it's a creative process and this is your product. I mean, people who are doing a good job want to hear that, too. So, I still have to remind myself that sometimes. You know, don't just focus on the people who need your help but thank the people who don't need your help, you know, who are doing a great job. Um, and I think in newsrooms, a lot of times, that doesn't happen, and I think that's probably why I remember those people so vividly. Um, it's because there were so many people who didn't take the time to do that, which is not helpful.--(laughs)--So, I try to remember that lesson.

KLING: That sounds like a very important lesson. Um, let's see. How did--I guess on this, we talked about the mentoring. You've really tried to use that to help other journalists achieve their own goals, too. Were there any 00:28:00specific things that you did other than what you've already mentioned?

CARLTON: Um, I've served as a reference for quite a few people. I mean, unfortunately, usually it was people leaving newspapers to go do something else, which is what I did but, you know, I think because I've work with people and they trusted me, I've been honored to be references for people as they look for other jobs and I think have been helpful in, you know, in helping people find other jobs. Um, Western has a tremendously successful network of alumni, from the journalism program. And we're all over the country and, you know, we help each other out. Um, we're always looking for ways to help the next generation. My husband and I--so many internships these days are not paid, and I don't know how people do internships. It really limits who can do an internship, you know, if you have to pay for your--especially if you're going out of town and you have to pay to live there. Um, so, my husband now owns his own public 00:29:00relations, um, public affairs business, C2 Strategic, and so, we have established a fellowship at Western, um, for a student every summer to come and work as a paid intern at his, um, company. So, that's one way that we've tried to give back and help other journalists. Um, you know, we've contributed to scholarships there. There's a scholarship in the name of Jim Ausenbaugh, who I mentioned earlier, my editing professor. Um, we've contributed to that scholarship. So, you know, I think, um, just helping people out when they are, you know, looking for a job, or looking to even get out of journalism. It was a tough--it was a tough decision for me, in that because I was so focused on newspapers my whole life, you know, I had like these blinders on. And when I realized I wanted to do something else, I felt this moment of panic like you know, "I can't do anything else, I'm not suited to do anything but newspapers." But you know, I networked with people that I knew who had made that leap and um, actually ended up working for one of my former bosses, I 00:30:00mentioned Hunt Helm on the metro desk. He had moved to Bellarmine University as Vice President of Communications, and I went to lunch with him just to talk--really, just to talk about, what's it like to leave a newsroom and go work somewhere else? And I ended up getting a job working for him at Bellarmine. So, that's the importance of networking.--(laughs)--

KLING: Definitely. How would you describe your writing style?

CARLTON: I think my writing style is very conversational. Um, I try to make it fairly informal, most of the time. Um, you know, I like to use a lot of descriptive, um, terms. I know one of the things that I learned in an assignment at Western, we wrote for a story for Mr. Ausenbaugh, who also taught feature writing. He had us take a thirty-minute walk and write about it. And the thing that almost nobody used was their sense of smell and that, kind of, stuck with me, t too, that, you know, you can really--it's a cliché, show don't 00:31:00tell, but I mean, I think that's really important, especially when you're writing feature stories. Um, you want to go, and--you don't just want to call somebody on the phone. You want to go, if you can, hang out with the person, get to know the person, watch them work, see what other people say about them, um, and really just, I try to put the reader in that situation, through visuals, through you know, sounds, through smells, and, you know, and just try to be more descriptive in that way. But I think it's fairly informal. It was, kind of, funny--(laughs)--at Western I was a double major in journalism and English, and it was a little bit schizophrenic, because I would--um, you know, my English professors would say, "Your paragraphs are too short," and then my journalism professors would say, "Your paragraphs are too long," um, so, you know, it was funny. Um, but, you know, I think I definitely prefer the journalistic style to academic writing. Um, you know, and I think a lot of people fall 00:32:00into that, you know. And even reporters sometimes fall--if you're covering education, you start using educational jargon. If you're covering firefighters, you start using their jargon. And so, I just try to make things really understandable to people. You know, I want anybody to be able to read my story and be able to understand what I'm talking about, and not make it difficult for them to, you know--I don't want them to have to go look up some phrase or something. I try to, you know, um--even now when I'm writing about bourbon, um, in a bourbon magazine, I don't want to talk down to people, but I also don't want people to feel left out. So, you know, if you already know it, you can blip over that little explanation. If you don't know, then that's giving you a little lifeline and you can swing across to the next paragraph.

KLING: That's great. You had talked about, just a minute ago, a working at Bellarmine University. Currently, you're the Director of Executive in 00:33:00Advancement Communications, correct?

CARLTON: That's correct.

KLING: Can you tell me a little more about that position?

CARLTON: Well, it's one of the longer titles--(laughs)--in the Office of Enrollment Management in Communication. Um, primarily, what I was hired to do, and is still my favorite part of my job, is I'm editor-in-chief of Bellarmine Magazine, which is our magazine that goes to alumni and friends of the university. Um, that being said, that's just one part of my job. I also write for a lot of things for the president's office, that's the executive part. Um, Speeches. I draft memos for her. I do a lot of writing for her. I also, um, am the liaison with fundraising, the development department. So, I don't have to write grants, but I do pretty much edit all of their materials, um, you know, asks, thank yous, just to make sure the messaging is consistent. And again, to make it as appealing as possible. You know, I knew when I was going 00:34:00there that I'd be working with development, and, kind of, doing some marketing. And I have no formal marketing background. But to me, marketing is basically storytelling. Um, that's what I, kind of, tell people now at Bellarmine, I'm the head storyteller for Bellarmine University. And that's whether I'm telling a story about why you should you're your kid enrolled at Bellarmine, or why you should give a gift to Bellarmine. I'm trying to tell stories that help you see all the great things that are happening at the university, um, all the great things our alumni are doing out in the world, and, you know, that's, kind of, mainly what I do. I just do writing. I was right when I was a kid. I was going to be a writer, and I've managed to do that for my entire career. --(laughs)--

KLING:--(laughs)--Wonderful. We're going to change gears a little bit and now we're going to talk a little more about bourbon and your contribution to the industry. Uh, you were an interviewer for Bourbon Tales Project. How does it feel now that the tables have turned, and what is it like to be the 00:35:00interviewee for a related, but different project, focused explicitly on women in the industry?

CARLTON: Well, it's a great honor. I'm really humbled and honored to be part of this project. Um, I have to say that as a journalist, I don't like being on this side of the camera--(laughs)--as much as I like being on the other side of the microphone. But, um, you know, it was a lot of fun to participate as an interview in that previous project. I got to interview Al Young and Jim Rutledge, from Four Roses. And I think that was just an amazing, amazing project. I think it happened because, you know, the industry realized that a lot of these original master distillers were getting older, and I believe it was, um, the death of Elmer T. Lee from Buffalo Trace, um, kind of, hastened that project along, because those guys, they just have so many decades of knowledge, and lore, and, you know, they didn't want to lose that. And of 00:36:00course, unfortunately, since I did that interview, Al Young has passed away. So, um, he was such a great guy, and it was so much fun to hear his stories. So, yeah, I'm happy to see we're focusing--that you're focusing on women in the industry as well. And, um, you know, again, honored, a little nervous, but mostly glad.--(laughs)--

KLING: Well, you're doing great.

CARLTON: Great. --(both laugh)--

KLING: Um, I know at the beginning you had talked a little bit about the teetotaling household that you grew up in. I had seen the Storytellers Project for the Courier-Journal where you talked about that a little bit and you also told us a little that it was more into college that you became interested in bourbon. Can you tell me a little more about that experience?

CARLTON: Yeah. I um, of course, I got to college and had to go to parties and drink. But I really had not found a spirit that I really enjoyed that much. Um, this was back before, you know, the whole craft beer movement, so, 00:37:00you know, it was like Bud Light or Miller Lite, which were not all that great. I was never a huge fan of the clear spirits, you know, vodka or gin. I didn't really like those. Rum was okay. Um, but, you know, somebody brought Maker's Mark to a party and I tried that, and I was like, "Hey, this is all that stuff I was smelling in Shively when I was a kid, going to my grandmother's house. You know, here it is, this is what it was." Um, you know, I just--bourbon is so complex, you know, especially compared to something like vodka, which is, you know, colorless, odorless, flavorless.--(laughs)--It's like carbon monoxide. Um, you know, bourbon just has such a complex flavor profile. And it was a little, you know--of course, Maker's Mark is a wheated bourbon, so it's a little sweeter. So, it was a good, you know, gateway bourbon, I guess. Um, and I'll admit, but don't tell Bill Samuels, I made a drink, I mixed it with Coke back then. But you know, it became--that became my drink, you know? And 00:38:00back then, in the eighties and the early eighties especially, bourbon was not as big a thing as it is now, by a long shot. Um, you know, in the sixties and seventies the taste, I guess, preference of America had moved to these clear spirits and there was this glut of bourbon that they just couldn't sell. And Maker's Mark was, you know, one--the distillery that, kind of, led the way to this big bourbon renaissance that we're having now by, you know, Bill Samuels Senior wanted a bourbon that tasted good, so he experimented and came up with this wheated bourbon recipe, and, you know, priced it higher, which is funny. I mean, I remember as a kid reading Maker's Mark ads that said, "It tastes expensive, and is," and I thought, "Why would you say you're more expensive than everybody else?" But you know, he wanted to make it seem like a sophisticated product, like scotch, that people were paying money for. You know, and it worked. And now, you know, anywhere you go in the world, pretty much, 00:39:00you see that Maker's Mark red wax on the bar. So, you know, we all owe a lot to--the industry owes a lot to Maker's Mark. Um, other brands then followed suit, but, you know, I decided in college, I'm a bourbon drinker. You know, and I have to admit, I thought it was, kind of, cool to go to a bar, as a woman back then, and order bourbon and, you know, they're like, "Are you sure?" And it's like, "Yeah, I'm sure." Um, you know, it was, kind of, a fun thing to do. I don't know. I'm sure my dad was proud of me and proud of the book and everything, but at one point my sister was learning to be a bartender and I was, you know, writing about bourbon and I thought, "Boy, I'm sure my dad is so proud of us right now--(laughs)--as a teetotaler. He's probably thinking, 'Where did I go wrong?' you know. But um, you know, the more I've learned about bourbon, I mean, it's certainly, um, just such a part of Kentucky history. Um, so, I love that part of it. I love, you know, just all the distillers I've gotten to meet and their stories. Um, and I really--you know, my husband's from 00:40:00Lawrenceburg, Kentucky which is where Wild Turkey and Four Roses are distilled. And, you know, I've seen what bourbon tourism, especially, has done for his hometown. Um, you know, it was one of those towns where the Walmart was on the bypass, and the downtown was really struggling. And, you know, now it's come back in a big way. There are boutiques, there are restaurants. And honestly, we've seen the same thing happen here in Louisville, in my hometown. You know, bourbon tourism is a huge thing. Um, you know, it's given Louisville an identity, um, as a city, seeking conventions and things like that. You know, so I mean, you know, to me, there's just so much to know and learn about bourbon, um, just besides drinking it. I just think it's an amazing part of the Kentucky story.

KLING: True, definitely. And preparing for that Storyteller's Project, I believe you had talked about, in it, that you found out a little more about your own family's history with bourbon. Could you tell me a little more 00:41:00about that?

CARLTON: I did. Um, you know, they asked me to tell--it was a Storyteller Project, and the project that month was Louisville History. So, you know, they had somebody talking about Muhammad Ali, and somebody talking about, you know, basketball and somebody talking about the Brown Hotel, and they needed somebody to talk about bourbon. So, my friend, um, asked me to do it, and she said, you know, "We don't just want to hear about bourbon, you know, the spiel about, here's how many barrels are being made, whatever. We want to hear your bourbon story, because you're a Louisvillian, you know," um, and so, I started digging around and I knew a little bit about this, but not much. But I discovered that my grandmother, my mother's mother, had worked in a distillery, um, back in the thirties. She worked in a bottling facility and she was apparently pretty good at it because she was promoted and became the supervisor in that bottling facility. Unfortunately, my grandmother passed away--let's see--it'll be twenty-two years ago this year, and I wish I could have her back for 00:42:00just an hour, even, to talk to her about this, because, you know, she lost her hearing to scarlet fever when she was about five, I think. So, to be a woman and to be a woman, you know, with a hearing issue, working in a job like that and advancing, I think is pretty impressive. Um, you know, we had uh,--there was a big flood here in Louisville in 1937--it wasn't just Louisville, it was all down the Ohio River. And on the fiftieth anniversary of that flood, WHAS TV here did a retrospective and my mom, and I were watching it and at one point, this little boat goes across the screen and there's a family sitting there in the boat, and my mother said, "That's your grandmother." And she's sitting there with, you know, her nice hat and her coat with the fur collar and everything. She had been out on a date when the waters came up. They came up, you know, through the sewer system, too, so it was very quick. Um, they lived right downtown. And 00:43:00she rushed home from her date, and her family was evacuating their apartment. And, um, they got in this boat. So, there goes my grandmother's whole family, her brother was standing in the back like George Washington crossing the Delaware, and she was all dressed up. And I discovered that she was able to buy those clothes, um, with her salary from her distillery job. Um, her youngest sister, my great-aunt Margie, is still living. She's the only one of the siblings And I've talked to her a little bit about this, but she was maybe fourteen when my grandmother was working, and doesn't remember a lot of the details. So, I'm not sure exactly which distillery, but I think it was probably the Schenley Distillery down in western Kentucky--I mean, western Louisville, not western Kentucky--in western Louisville, where she was working. Um, but anyway, I just think that's--I didn't realize that I had such a connection to bourbon when I started writing about bourbon. So, that was a neat thing to find out about. Um, and, you know, again, I wish I could--you know, when 00:44:00you have a grandmother, you don't think of them ever even having a job. They're just your grandmother and you can't imagine they ever did anything but be your grandmother. So, I never--you know, and she didn't bring it up because I think at that point, she'd been out of the workforce for so many years, she probably didn't think I'd be interested in it. But, um, you know, I would be, and I'm really proud of her, you know, for her role in Louisville's bourbon history, too.

KLING: That's wonderful. That's one reason why we're doing this, is so we can have those recorded discussions to look back on, to see. That'd be great. Tell me about being a founding member of Bourbon Women.

CARLTON: Uh, Bourbon Women is a great organization. Um, I was one of the first members at the first meeting, which was held at the governor's mansion. And the first lady, um, First Lady Beshear came and spoke to us. Um, I got invited and, you know, I thought, "This is a neat thing." Um, the founder of Bourbon Women, Peggy Noe Stevens once worked at Brown-Forman, and she was the first 00:45:00female master taster. And she had decided that, you know, every time she did an event with women and men, you know, a lot of times afterwards, the women would come up and ask a lot of questions and they'd have really great questions, but for whatever reason, they didn't want to ask them in the mixed crowd. I guess they were intimidated, or whatever. Um, and she decided that women--it would be a great thing to have a networking organization, um, you know, based on bourbon, for just women, where they could feel comfortable and, you know, get to know other women who enjoy bourbon. She did a survey of the membership. Um, members are, you know, at all different types of economic and socioeconomic levels, but we have this, um, similar profile in that everyone seems to be fairly adventurous, um, kind of, outspoken, you know, willing to try new 00:46:00things and have new experiences. Um, so, when I went to that first meeting, I really only knew about two people out of the hundred or so women who were there. But I left feeling like I had these new friends because everybody I talked to just felt like somebody I'd like to be friends with, that I felt like we had something in common. And not just bourbon, but just, you know, um, the interest in Kentucky history, an interest in entertaining, whatever it was. It's great. And I've continued to be a member. I was on the board for a little while and then I got busy, but, um, you know, every meeting we have, every, um, experience we have, um, behind the scenes with the distiller or, you know, with somebody on the bottling line or whatever, I learn something. So, um, I think that it's more than just a networking opportunity, it's an educational opportunity. And Peggy also intended for it to be, and it has been, um, a source for the industry on what women like regarding bourbon. Um, you know, bourbon companies 00:47:00have not advertised to women, or really focused on women for years, you know, decades. Um, and, you know, we're half the population and a lot of us do the buying in our families. I mean, we're the ones going and picking out the bourbon. So, um, you know, she wanted to provide them with some information on what do women really like? Because there's is perception, I think, that women want, you know, fruity drinks, Cosmos, drinks with little umbrellas in them. You know, and they have their place, but a lot of times, um, we've had several blind tastings at our events with three different bourbon at the end we asked women to raise their hand, which one did you like the best, and inevitably, more women like the highest proof, most complex bourbon, um, that we've offered. So, I think that's really good information for the industry to have, you know, both in making products and also in advertising their products to women in a way that doesn't talk down to them, or make assumptions about them that are 00:48:00more likely to turn them off than to get them to buy your product.

KLING: Definitely. Um, let's see. Were you--you were involved with helping to get Bourbon Women like off the ground, correct--

CARLTON: --that's right--

KLING: --and get it started? So, how hard was it to do that? That was back in 2011, correct?

CARLTON: That's right. It really wasn't that difficult. I mean, I think it seemed to be something that women were really, you know, looking for. Um, you know, it's--you know, there was a huge response right away. I think I--when I joined the board I was helping with communications and, you know, it wasn't that hard to get, um, you know, newspapers or magazines or something interested in doing a story about it because at that point, you know, it still seemed--especially outside of Kentucky, I think, it still seemed really unusual and exotic, I think, for women to have, you know, a whiskey group. Um, now, there are so many whiskey societies and most of them are, you know, 00:49:00coeducational or whatever, coed, but, you know, at that point, it was pretty--pretty new and pretty different. And I think people may have had a misconception about what it was going to be when they, you know, when they came to interview and then they realized, you know, these women know what they're talking about, you know, they know a lot about bourbon, they know what they like. So, you know, it seemed to be--I started writing my blog, my bourbon blog, um, right around that same time, maybe a little bit earlier because I thought, "You know, it seems like bourbon, you know, it's really taking off. There's a lot going on," and it was perfect timing in that way because it's just--from 2011 on, it has just done nothing but grow exponentially. Um, so, you know, and I think being a woman, um, and a woman writer, a member of Bourbon Women, was helpful to me in a way, because there weren't that many women writing about spirits at that point, either. So, that was a kind of, a nice niche for me to explore.

KLING: Can you talk a little more about what made you want to get 00:50:00involved with Bourbon Women?

CARLTON: I like the idea of promoting a group that, you know, um, wanted to be educational that didn't just want to be like, "Hey, we're going to go get drunk this weekend." Because there are some bourbon societies that are more focused on, you know, let's have a good time, let's get together and drink, you know. And this group was more focused on, you know, let's get together, let's bring women together in a way that they can help each other, they can network, they can get to know each other, we can learn more about the industry. Um, we can provide access to distillers to, you know, blenders, to, um, all the people behind the scenes in the bourbon industry, and be educational. We can educate the industry. You know, I just thought that was really exciting, because it was, um, you know, it wasn't just some drinking club. I mean, it was a group that had a real, important mission. And, you know, it also, um,--it did also provide , you know, a great social--I mean, if you're going to network, you 00:51:00might as well network with bourbon, right?--(laughs)--You know. But, um, you know, the industry's been very, um, supportive, you know, even that first year, a lot of distilleries were more than willing to host us, and provide access, and, you know, it was good for them, too, because it was exposing, um, our members to maybe a brand they hadn't tried yet, or something. So, you know, I feel like I know quite a bit about bourbon. I never call myself a bourbon expert because there's still things to learn, and you know, I find that at all of these events, I do learn something. You know, there's just always something else to learn. And that's probably what I like the most about it, is that access that allows you, you know, to ask questions of the Four Roses Distiller, or, you know, or learn how this piece of equipment works, or whatever it might be, you know, it's, um, very much of a behind-the-scenes thing and not just a surface organization.

KLING: What doors has being a part of Bourbon Women opened for you?

CARLTON: Um, I think it helped me with my bona fides, I guess you'd say. You know, with reporting, now--I do have the journalism background so when I started my blog, I knew I didn't want my blog--blogs were pretty new back then, too, and I was, kind of, trying to figure out, what are these blogs? Because a lot of blogs at that point were like, "I'm eating a sandwich and here's a picture of it," you know, and I was just like, "I don't get this whole blog thing, I don't understand." Um, so, I wanted my blog, from the very beginning, to be a very journalistic reported blog, that would provide news and insights and background. And so, I was fortunate you know, I had some connections from having worked at the Courier, um, the Kentucky Distillers Association president, Eric Gregory, used to work at the Herald-Leader, and my husband used to work at the Herald-Leader, so I knew him from that. Um, you know, some of the distillery, uh, PR people used to be in journalism and I knew them. So, I had some connections, so that helped, you know, that helped get access to 00:53:00things because they knew I was trying to do something that was, you know, serious and reported, and not just get free bourbon or something. Um, and then, you know, being a member of Bourbon Women, I think, just added onto that, you know, I'm serious about this, I'm, you know, I'm really committed to learning about this and helping promote the industry, honestly. Um, so, I think it helped in that way. Um, and, you know, I've met all these women and these members, you know, they're members from the hospitality industry and, you know, a lot of these women own their own companies and, you know, it really has been a great networking experience and, uh, provided me with some contacts, you know, even outside of bourbon, when I need help with something, I have this whole new group of, you know, of smart, fun women that I can reach out to, to help me with it.

KLING: Uh, Bourbon Women has just celebrated their tenth anniversary. How has the organization it's goals, mission changed over the years?

CARLTON: I think we've remained fairly, you know, constant with our goals. Um, our membership's become, I think, more diverse. I think that's definitely a goal of the organization, is to continue to diversify, not just, you know, racially but also age wise. Um, you know, to have all ages--well, twenty-one and older of course. I think we've also expanded, um, so far outside of Kentucky. We have branches, we call them, you know, all over the country, now. And essentially, a branch is when somebody, um, in a certain town wants to form a Bourbon Women branch, they have to get together a certain number of people, and they have to, you know, uh, send in an application about what they plan to do, what kinds of events they plan to hold, where they plan to meet, that sort of thing, so that it, you know, upholds the standards of the Bourbon Women organization. But you know, we have people in Atlanta, and Washington, and um, Washington 00:55:00DC, and Nashville, and, you know, I'll probably leave some of them out, but they're all over the country, which I think is great. Um, that was something that--we had to wait a couple of years to build that out but, you know, we have a sip-osium every year, which is a gathering of women and we've decided to keep that in Kentucky, because we feel like, you know, if you're going to be a Bourbon Woman, you need to visit Kentucky, you know, the homeland. You need to come here at least once. Um, but, you know, a lot of women who came from other places would say, "Well, we love this, we had so much fun, but we can't come to all your events because we live so far away, you know, is there something we can do in our own communities?" And I think it's helped those women to identify other bourbon-loving women in their own communities so that they can, you know, pull together events in their own towns. And then, you know, they can also visit Kentucky, but they don't have to wait a whole year, or, you know, just read about it on the website or whatever. So, that's probably been the 00:56:00biggest thing, is the growth, you know, outside of Kentucky, of members.

KLING: Wonderful. Your book, Barrel Strength Bourbon, which you have a wonderful picture behind you--

CARLTON: --(laughs)--that's right--

KLING: --was published in 2017, was actually assigned to us, like I said at the beginning, this is part of our class assignment. How does it feel to have your book used as a textbook for a college class?

CARLTON: It's amazing, I mean I couldn't believe it when you first reached out. I thought I'd read it wrong, but, um, I think that's so great.--(laughs)--You know, I'm so glad that, you feel that it's worth, you know, using as a textbook. Um, you know, I had hoped--when I wrote the book it was intended to be for a general audience, and again, you know, in an approachable way. Um, I wanted to focus on, you know, the growth of bourbon. There's several good books about the history of bourbon over the past two hundred years, you know, and I 00:57:00didn't feel like I really needed to, you know, go over that ground again. So, my history, the history of the two hundred years is, kind of, this much of the book, and then, I wanted to, you know, write about the past ten years or so and what has caused the industry to explode--which is not probably the best word to use about bourbon because it could explode--but, um, to grow so exponentially and, you know, also, you know, to talk about the Bourbon Trail, and how tourism has expanded. Um, so, you know, um, I'm glad to hear that, you know, it's apparently approachable enough that it works as a textbook for your class.--(both laugh)--

KLING: We did enjoy reading it. It was definitely a great read. Um, so, you talked a little bit about why, but when did you decide to start writing the book?

CARLTON: I was very fortunate. Um, you know, I had done a lot of the reporting, I feel like for the book. I did a lot of freelance writing about bourbon. Uh, when I left the newspaper to go to Bellarmine in 2007, as I mentioned, I wanted to continue, in my spare time, to continue to do a little 00:58:00bit of that, kind of, writing. And so, I had started, um, freelance writing about travel, and not just about bourbon but you know, as part of that, I had done several stories about the Bourbon Trail for various publications. Um, and I wrote for a time for Bourbon Review magazine, and, kind of, just, you know, came up with story ideas to get me into places, like, "I think I want to talk to Jimmy Russell," so I'd pitch a story and go talk to Jimmy Russell at Wild Turkey, and you know, I used that as my own bourbon school, I would say because even though I grew up in Kentucky and I drank bourbon, and, you know, I knew a little bit about bourbon, kind of, how it was made but, you know, I didn't know--there was a lot I didn't know, let's just say. There was a lot of the history I didn't know. There was a lot of the chemistry I didn't' know. I mean, the more I learn about all the chemistry involved in making bourbon, I can't imagine how moonshiners ever made anything. You know, it's just--I mean, I know they knew how to do it, they probably couldn't have told you the 00:59:00chemistry, but they knew this works and we do this, you know, but it's a tremendously, you know, um, scientific process. So, you know, learning all of that really helped, I think, um, background me for the book. And so, what happened was, is a publisher approached me about writing the book and, um, that was a connection I formed through Bourbon Women. The publisher's, I think it's his niece, was one of the Bourbon Women and had asked her, Hey do, you know, anybody who might want to, you know, help us?" it was actually to update a book they had published maybe five or ten years before. And when I looked at the manuscript of the previous book, I said, "Well, I would love to work on this, but I would love to just start from scratch, because almost everything in this book is completely outdated. You know, it would be a complete rewrite." So, fortunately, they went for that. The previous editor had moved to, I don't know, Idaho or somewhere and was writing about beer and wasn't really interested in revising the book. So, he was out of the picture. So, it was probably 01:00:002015. It was a couple of years before it came out that I started working on the process of writing the book. Um, writing a book, it was an adventure. You know, I've been a writer my whole life, but I'd never written a book and I've mostly been in journalism. And so, I'm used to writing something and it comes out tomorrow, or next week, or next month. And so, sitting down to write a book was probably the most intimidating thing I've ever done. Um, you know, I sat there and stared at my screen for a couple of nights, a couple weeks maybe, I don't know, and just thought, "I can't write a book. What do I know about writing a book?" you know? And finally, I started writing and when I went back and read what I'd written, I hated it. And I realized it was because I had ignored my own advice that I give to other writers, you know, "Write it like you're telling your mom." You know, I had started writing a very academic-sounding--and I thought, "This is not what I want this to sound like." So, I went back and actually read some of my own blog posts to, kind of, recapture my 01:01:00voice. And once I did that, and, kind of, turned off my editor brain for a while, I just was able to make that happen. But, it was um, it's very different, writing a book than it is writing anything else that I've written, before.

KLING: I can imagine. Yeah. It's a lot longer.--(laughs)--

CARLTON: It is a lot longer.

KLING: You also have an eBook called Still Life. Can you tell me a little bit about that?

CARLTON: Yes. That was an eBook that came out. It was part of the same contract to write, um, Barrel Strength Bourbon and it was intended as, kind of, a "Did you read Barrel Strength Bourbon? Try reading this now," or you know. And so, that's a book that is about craft distillers in Kentucky. So, it actually took more leg work than the main book did, because I had not yet been to all the craft distilleries. Um, most of the major distilleries that are on the Kentucky Bourbon Trail are clustered around Louisville, Frankfort, Bardstown, and Lexington. So, from Louisville, they're all pretty easy to get to. The craft distilleries are all over the state. They're in, you know, far 01:02:00western Kentucky, far eastern Kentucky, so I had to set aside several weekends to just hit the road and go talk to these folks and check out their distilleries and taste their wares and talk to them. But the intent of it was to talk to you the, I think twelve or so members that were then on the Craft Trail--it's grown since then--about their stories, you know, why do you want to start a craft distillery? It's very expensive to start a distillery, you know, what's your background? And it was really interesting, because I'd say probably a third of them had family connections, back in the day, to distilling that had, you know, the probation had ended, and they wanted to reclaim their family history. A good example of that would be the Beam Brothers at Limestone Branch Distillery in Lebanon, Kentucky. Their grandfather was Minor Case Beam who was another branch of the Beam family from Jim Beam, and they went back and , you know, 01:03:00they're producing some of his old recipes, including Yellowstone whiskey bourbon. About another third of them were chemical engineers who decided they didn't want to make fuel; they'd rather make whiskey. So, they got into--(laughs)--you know, the bourbon business. And then I'd say maybe the other third were just people who liked, you know, liked bourbon, saw what was happening, and decided to invest. And so, some of them were hiring people to distill for them--they weren't necessarily the distillers--but there were a couple guys in Lexington who were playing poker and they said, "Hey, I like bourbon, let's start a distillery." You know, so the stories were really interesting, just you know, what motivated people to want to join, you know, back in this real Kentucky industry. And, you know, like I said, it's a super expensive--building a distillery is very expensive. You have to know--you know, you have to a place to warehouse your product until it ages, and most people, you know, want to age their bourbon at least two to four years, and most people can't afford to not have an income for two to four years. So, they 01:04:00had to be able to figure out, you know, how am I going to survive until my bourbon has aged? A lot of them started with, you know, moonshine, um, vodkas, things like that until they could, you know, bottle their bourbon. So, it's a pretty daunting prospect, you know, to start a distillery. And, you know, hats off to all those guys because I think, you know, they're all still doing it, you know, their products have just improved over time and they've joined this, you know, colorful cast of characters, um, that is the distilling community. Uh, one thing I'll say about that as a woman, I did not encounter any mansplaining, um, or anything like that from any of the distillers that I talked to you for the book or really any time. I mean, you know, Jimmy Russell, um, he's from my husband's hometown, my husband's father actually went to high school with Jimmy Russel. Um, he's the sweetest guy. He's been there for sixty years or something. I'm sure he never in a million years thought, "One day I'm going to 01:05:00be flying to Japan and Australia and people will want me to sign their, you know, bottles." I mean, he just, he got a good job there in Lawrenceburg, Kentucky, and he's continued to do it. Um, but you know, he, Jim Rutledge, you know, every distiller I talked to was so accommodating, you know, they answered all my questions. They gave me their time. And they love what they do, which is what was so fun. That's what's fun about this, you know, it's you don't talk to people--you rarely talk to people in an industry where everybody you talk to really likes what they do and is really proud of what they do. At least, that hasn't been--that's not been my experience. But everybody you talk to you in bourbon, they love it, they're proud of it. A lot of them were from family dynasties, if you will, um, you know, so it's been in their family for generations. You know, I just--I love talking to people and hearing their stories, and, you know, it's been--that's been really probably the most enjoyable part of it. And they couldn't have been nicer to me, or more helpful to me in explaining what they do.

KLING: Awesome. Let's see, your Kentucky pride shines through in your writing. Was that purposeful and if so, why was that important to you?

CARLTON: I think it was purposeful. Um, you know, growing up--(laughs)--growing up in Kentucky, you know, when you'd go other places and say you're from Kentucky, they'd typically look at your feet to see if you're wearing shoes. Um, you know, there are a lot of stereotypes about Kentuckians and they're not all, you know, flattering. Um, there's a lot to be proud of about being from Kentucky, but I think one great thing about the bourbon boom is that now when you say you're from Kentucky, people are like, "Oh, bourbon. Can you get me some Pappy?" And you're like, "No, I can't, but thank you for asking." Um, but, you know, it's really, I think, elevated the state's reputation. Um, you know, people have always traveled here, I think. You know, ever since I've been going on bourbon tours, there's always somebody from like Japan or 01:07:00Australia or somewhere who's here because, you know, Wild Turkey's their favorite bourbon and they want to come see where it's made, you know. But it's just--that's become much more widespread, you know, the tourism aspect I think is amazing how many people are coming to Kentucky to tour distilleries. Um, you know, the COVID year excepted, the previous two years, you know, the Kentucky distilleries--The Bourbon Trail hit like over a million visitors, both of those two years, now. And that's remarkable. And it's a huge moneymaker for the state, too. It's a huge economic engine for Kentucky. And it's not just the distilleries, but it's the people who drive the trucks, the people who grow the grain, you know, there's all these ancillary industries that benefit from this bourbon boom, um, that are providing really good-paying jobs for Kentuckians. So, you know, I just think all of that is really, um, worth celebrating, and, you know, just the history of it. I mean, we were making bourbon in Kentucky before we were Kentucky. We were still Virginia, and we were making 01:08:00bourbon, you know. So, it's been part of our economy and our history for the entire time Kentucky has existed.

KLING: Awesome. Um, what was the hardest part either--well, you, kind of, talked a little bit about getting started writing the books, but how about like the revising process, as you were writing them?

CARLTON: The hardest part--the waiting is the hardest part. I've heard people say that. Um, the revision process was not terrible. I mean, you know, my publisher was great, the editor I worked with was great. The cover took forever for them to decide on, and that was the part that I found--you know, I know so many photographers, um, as a former journalist and what I do now, and I kept saying, "Whatever it is, whatever image it is that you want, I can get for you. I can get somebody to take it," you know, and they kept saying, "Well, we're looking at some things," you know, and they finally, you know, they came up with a great cover and then the book had to go--it was actually printed overseas, and then it had to come back. And so, you know, I just didn't realize 01:09:00I guess the length of the entire process, you know, just the writing part was difficult, but in some ways, it was--it went faster once I got started, then, you know, just the revision process in terms of just, you know, I email this to them, they email it back, I make changes and I email it back, and then, just the production of the book itself took longer than I had realized that it would take. So, yeah, getting started, and then waiting for it to get here, you know, were probably the two most difficult parts. Um, one thing that happened, my father became ill with lung cancer during the process of the book, and he passed away, actually, before the book was published. And that very difficult. Um, you know, finishing it, I'm not even sure how I did it in some ways because, you know, I was still working full-time and I was writing the book at, you know, midnight, um, and then going through that. And I was really sad because he was so excited that I was writing a book, you know, I mean he didn't care 01:10:00what it was about, you know, but he was just so excited. And so, um, you know, I was really sad that he didn't get to live to see the actual book. But, um, as I said in my introduction, or in my dedication, I dedicated it to my mother, who's heard far more stories than I will ever write, a super patient woman, um, and my father, who never drank anything stronger than black coffee, but was proud of me, anyway. So, um, you know, I'm glad he knew that I was writing a book. I think he was very proud of that. Um, but that was difficult, but somehow, I got through it. I really, again--sometimes I look back at that period and think, "I don't know how I finished this, but I did."--(laughs)--

KLING: Wow. Another period where that work-life balance, you made it through it, somehow.

CARLTON: Yes, yes. Other people have asked me--they'll come up in front of my family and say, "So, when are--are you going to write another book?" And my kids and my husband would all say, "No."--(laughs)--Because it was just--I really had to focus on that, and I was so preoccupied with it, and I was really 01:11:00struggling at a couple points with the flow and the organization, you know, and they knew, like, don't bother Mom, she's working on her book, you know. But there were some fun parts, too. My kids went with me, um, on a couple of these distillery trips and helped take some of the pictures. And I used to tell--well, my daughter's twenty-one now, and my son is eighteen, but I'd tell people, you know, my kids know way more about bourbon than any kids their age should know, but I guess as long as they don't know like which one tastes this way or whatever, I'm okay. Um, but they enjoyed--I think they enjoyed going around and touring some of the distilleries. They couldn't taste, obviously, but, you know, it's such a fun--it's such an agricultural, hands-on process. You know, it's really--I think it's fun to go watch and see how anything is made. You know, and just all the equipment, you know, it's all copper and it's pretty and, you know, they're all--most of these distilleries are in really picturesque settings, so I've had people ask me before, you know, "I don't really drink bourbon, should I come?" Or my wife doesn't, or my husband doesn't, and I said, "Yeah, you know, bring them along. I mean, they don't have to sample the bourbon at 01:12:00the end, but it's just fascinating, I think, to see how it's made." And, you know, um, it's still, kind of, magical to me because, you know, bourbon has to be--legally has to be at least fifty-one percent corn, and it has to be aged in new charred oak barrels, and it has to be this and this and this, so you'd think, if they all have to do this and this and this, then they must all taste the same and, you know, that could not be further from the truth. So, to me, that's just, kind of, --there's a real element of artistry. Um, sure, a lot of it's mechanized, these days, but the master distiller still has to taste it and say, "Yes, this is what I want this to taste like." So, you know, I think it's a real mixture of science and artistry, um, and I like that. I like that there's still that real human element about it.

KLING: You mentioned it, I'm going to ask. So, is there another book possibly?--(both laugh)--

CARLTON: Well, there's going to be a new edition of Barrel Strength Bourbon, I'm starting work right now on a second edition because, you know, um, 01:13:00even since 2017, you know, I'm going to definitely have to add a lot more distilleries to the Kentucky Bourbon Trail, you know, production is up. Um, most of the distilleries here have added, you know, new stills new visitors centers, there's just more and more people coming. And so, um, a lot has changed. And so, I need to update that. So, I'm starting-- starting the work on that. I can't tell you exactly when that will be out, it'll probably be another year or so, a couple years, year, and a half. But yeah, I'm definitely--there'll at least be a second edition of Barrel Strength Bourbon, and maybe, once I retire from all this other stuff I'm doing--(laughs)--there might be another book, altogether. But not on the books, right now.

KLING: --(laughs)--Well, I'm looking forward to it, so that's great.

CARLTON: Good.

KLING: Um, you talked a little bit about your blog called "The Bourbon Babe," when and why did you start that?

CARLTON: Well, as I mentioned before, when I started working at Bellarmine, at the university, in 2007, um, you know, I wanted to hang on a little bit to my journalism roots, you know, not just write for academic stuff. Um, 01:14:00so, I started the freelance writing, and then I decided to start the blog, because there were so many stories that I wanted to tell and you know, I didn't have outlets for all of them, necessarily. So, that's when I started the blog. And I called it "The Bourbon Babe,", kind of, as a wink, you know, to being a woman, um, you know, it's my own nickname for me. It wasn't something that, you know, was derogatory or anything like that. Um, and I wanted it to be obvious from the name that a woman was writing it because I felt like that was a niche that, you know, was largely dominated by men. Um, but yeah, and I started writing and it was, you know, it was a good way to, you know, to meet people and to learn more things. And it was always, you know, very reported. Um, I started doing some trivia in it, you know, every Tuesday and I have cocktail recipes. Um, but a fun thing, a really fun, probably the most fun thing that 01:15:00happened with the blog was the TV show Justified, which is set in Kentucky, and concern a lawman. Um, it started-- they started using--you know, they drank bourbon throughout that show, and so, the last season, I started doing recaps of Justified, but instead of recapping what happened, I recapped what they drank and, you know, tried to identify it because they never really said. Well, they would say every once in a while, like the head, Raylan liked Blanton's, but at one point, during one show, I said, "Hey, I think that was Blanton's," and I rewound it, and, you know, Blanton's is the one that's shaped, kind of, like a little grenade and it's got the horse on top and they had just--they were pouring it, so all you saw was the bottom, the little octagon, and I said, "It is Blanton's," and my husband said, "I think you may have a problem, Carla," and I was like, "No, no, no, it's just very recognizable." So, the, um, Washington Post did a story about the whiskeys of Justified, and they actually 01:16:00called me up and interviewed me, um, because they had discovered my blog. So, that was really fun. And then The New York Times was also recapping, and at some point, in the recaps, he said--the writer said something about, "This bourbon, I'm not sure what it is, maybe 'The Bourbon Babe' can help us," because he had also found the blog. So, I felt like I got a little bit of notoriety from the blog in recapping Justified. Um, but, you know, I still keep the website and I probably don't update it as much as I should, but, you know, there's still categories of cocktails, and news, and, um, it's just--it's tough to keep all the balls in the air, you know, honestly because, you know, I have my job, and then, I have my other job is editor of Bourbon Plus, and, you know, and then, the blog so, you know, it seems like at least one thing gets a little bit short changed.--(laughs)--Not my job, though. My job never gets shortchanged.--(laughs)--The blog gets shortchanged.

KLING:--(laughs)--That's good, that's good. Actually, you just 01:17:00mentioned that being the editor-in-chief at Bourbon Plus magazine. You took over from Fred Minnick, uh, last year, I believe.

CARLTON: That's right.

KLING: And how has this position as editor been different from when you were the editor of the Courier-Journal?

CARLTON: The main difference, I guess, is that I am the editor, you know, I was not the editor of the Courier-Journal, so I did not really have a lot of say over what, you know, what we did. Um, so, it's fun to be, you know, the editor and have, you know, a lot more say in what we do. Of course, Fred was the founding editor of Bourbon Plus, and I was, you know, really fortunate and happy that he asked me to be his managing editor. So, I've been on board since it started. And, you know, we're really continuing and expanding upon his vision for Bourbon Plus, which was to be a magazine that explored the history, the people, the science behind bourbon. Um, we do try to--in every issue, 01:18:00we have a personality profile. We have a science-related story, and then we have the plus story, which is something about--a feature story about another spirit. Um, and then, we have a series of columns that address everything from pairing bourbon with cigars to mixology. We have Molly Wellmann up in Cincinnati who is an award-winning, uh, mixologist writing that column for us. You know, we have a vintage column, which talks about these really old bottles that you can find at various bars and taste. And I write an amateur hour column which is intended--it's focused on newcomers to bourbon, because again, we didn't want it to be just so insider that, you know, you couldn't pick it up and learn from it. Um, and I think it's a really good mix. And I especially like the science aspect of it, because again, there's so much science behind bourbon. Um, the warehousing, the barrels, the, you know, the mash bill, the yeast, I mean, there's just tons of things to write about. So, nobody's really 01:19:00writing those stories on a consistent basis. So, you know, um, I'm really proud of that. And I just think it's a beautiful magazine. The publisher, um, Covey Rise, they're located in Alabama, they do print it up here in Kentucky um, but, you know, just really high-quality paper, um, really great design, amazing photography. And we have writers from all over the country writing for us and we come out four times a year. So, you know, I just, I couldn't be prouder and happier of this magazine. I think it's, you know, a really quality product.

KLING: Awesome. Um, what challenges have you faced with being a woman in this position?

CARLTON: Um, I don't know that I've really faced a lot of challenges, just based on the fact that I'm a woman. I think there was a little bit of, you know,--Fred has a big following--Fred Minnick. He has a web-based show, and, you know, he's really well-known in the industry, too, and so, I think there might 01:20:00have been a little bit of, you know, I'm going to follow Fred, you know, he's leaving the magazine. But he, you know, has been really gracious about--when he stepped down to go do other things about, you know, introducing me as the new editor, and being very supportive of that. Um, so, you know, there may have been a few people who dropped off because they just wanted to follow whatever Fred was doing. But by and large, I've heard really positive--you know, I've had really positive reactions and, you know, we're just continuing to do the great work we were doing. And I think, you know, one change I guess I've made so far is I want the magazine to have more takeaways for readers. So, you know, in the entertaining column, I want you to be able to read that and have recipes and ideas for entertaining and, you know, with mixology, there's a recipe that maybe--you know, we've had people write in and ask, "Where did you get that amazing glass?" That, you---so, you know, so now we're thinking about, should we add more information about where you can purchase some of the props in 01:21:00the pictures? Because people are always looking for, you know, neat stuff to use when they're entertaining. So, I'm just trying to make sure that as many stories as possible have, um, takeaways for readers that they can, you know, read about it and then do it in their own homes. Especially during COVID that's been tough because the bars have really struggled with, you know, having to shut down. But, you know, a lot more people are making cocktails at home, um, you know. And so, we've tried to cover that as well and be mindful of how people are entertaining. Um, well, they shouldn't have been entertaining over the past year, frankly, but, you know, just as we go back into--as we proceed with this year, you know, um, maybe smaller gatherings at first. You know, so we've tried to be mindful of that without it being like the COVID magazine, you know, because I mean, people don't want to just pick up, you know, bad news all the time. But, uh, you know, I think, um, people will continue, probably, to do more entertaining at home. I hope bars are able to continue to do cocktails to go and cocktail 01:22:00kits and things like that. I think, you know, they did that as a way to stay solvent during the pandemic, but some of that's great. I mean, I do miss going to the bar and just hanging out my friends and, you know, talking, and watching a game, or whatever but, you know, I also like the convenience of being able to go get cocktails, or have beer delivered to my house. I mean it's, you know, it's a great mix. And so, I hope they're able to continue to do both of those things.

KLING: That's awesome. We've talked a little earlier about mentoring other women. In this position at Bourbon Plus, have you had some opportunities there to mentor other women?

CARLTON: Um, I don't know. I guess I don't know if I'd call it mentoring, exactly, but I've certainly had opportunities to, um, reach out to women freelancers that I know. Um, I've brought on--there's a writer here in Louisville, Sarah Havens, who, um, is the Bar Belle in Louisville. Um, she's written for several other local publications, and she's going to be writing our Q&A. Um, she's taken on that column and other features. So, I'm 01:23:00looking for opportunities, you know, to um, bring other female writers in, photographers, you know, and just making sure that we're, you know, that we are representing women in the magazine, um, and not just making it like the boys club, um, because I think there is still a little bit of that perception in that places, that it's men who drink whiskey and smoke cigars, and, you know, I personally don't smoke cigars, they give me migraines, but I do know women who smoke cigars and drink bourbon, so you know. Um, just uh, so, I don't know that I've mentored them, exactly, but I've certainly tried to be inclusive and keep in mind that our writing staff bios should also reflect our readership and the population and not just be all men.

KLING: Awesome, that's great. Um, we'll shift a little bit and talk about, which I think was a little tongue-in-cheek, but you've wrote a, uh, letter, back in 2015, to the governor at the time was Stephen Beshear, titled 01:24:00"Please Pardon My Pappy"--(laughs)--could you tell me a little bit about that?

CARLTON: Yes. That, um, there was a big news story here in Kentucky that was went around the world , um, when it was discovered that a bunch of bourbon, um, in both bottles and barrels had been stolen from Buffalo Trace Distillery, in Frankfort. Buffalo Trace makes, um, Pappy Van Winkle there. Um, they also make a host of other brands, but, um, it was discovered that it was an inside job and some folks had made off with, you know, several barrels of whiskey and um, quite a few bottles of Pappy. And, you know, in writing about the case, you know, the sheriff's department there in Franklin County had confiscated all the bourbon, and a reporter asked, "Well, what will happen? It's evidence right now until the trial's over, but what will happen with it, you know, when it's 01:25:00over?" And he said, "Well, I guess it'll be destroyed, um, because it could have been tampered with or whatever." And this just created like a seismic shock wave around the world, you know, because Pappy is so hard to get, anyways. It's so hard to find and, you know, people follow maps about when it's being released, and they stand in big lines. So, the idea that there was all this Pappy that was just going to be poured down a drain seemed just horrific. So, somewhat tongue-in-cheek, I wrote a letter, um, asking the governor to pardon the Pappy and, you know, and sent it out, and, uh, it did make--it made some waves. I got interviewed in a couple of local news channels. But, you know, I think, you know--I need to check back on the status of all of that but, you know, I just think, um--I can see where they're concerned that it might be tampered with, but the bottles were still sealed and I think they should auction them off, you know, for a charitable cause or something, because I'm just thinking, you know, if you paid a bunch of money for this bottle with an evidence tag on 01:26:00it, are you going to open it and drink it? Probably not. You're probably going to sit it on a shelf and put a spotlight on it, you know. Um, so, it just seemed like a good opportunity to, you know, insert myself into public discourse. But also, I really do believe the Pappy should be pardoned. So.--(laughs)--

KLING: Well I don't blame you. I agree with you.--(both laugh)--I understand the magazine was formed, uh, less than four years ago, going back to Bourbon Plus. That puts you at the ground level of two big cultural shaping moments in bourbon, with the formation of Bourbon Women as well, before that, um, and the new publication. How does it feel to be, kind of, like a bourbon tastemaker, like part of both of these things?

CARLTON: Um, you know, it's not something that I really consciously think about. I mean, I feel really fortunate to have, you know, um, had these opportunities and been in, essentially been in the right place at the right time 01:27:00and had the opportunities to do the things I've done. It's really only when I'm putting together a bio or something for like a tasting, and I write down all this stuff that I realize, "Wow, I really have done quite a few things here," you know? Um, but when I've been doing it, I don't really, you know, I haven't thought of myself as, "Oh, I'm a woman in bourbon and I'm doing," whatever. I mean, I just, um--but yeah, it is nice. It's great. And I am happy to be, um--I'm happy there is a movement, um, to recognize women in bourbon. Um, you know, they haven't--women have been drinking bourbon forever. They've been working in distilleries forever. My grandmother worked in a bottling house in the 1930s. Um, they just have not really been highlighted. They certainly haven't been marketed to. Um and I'm glad, um, that that's changing because, you know, some people say that women have more refined taste buds than men and make better tasters, that we can pick up more, um, subtleties in bourbon. So, I think it only makes sense to involve women, you know, in a distillery. Um, 01:28:00there are several female distillers, now. There are blenders. Um, and I think that maybe some of this will make companies more likely to consider women for these positions than maybe they would have in the past. Um, so, you know, I guess I've just been happy to be there to help tell the stories, you know, of all these people, and to help tell the story of the big bourbon renaissance, because, you know, I guess the bottom line to me is that it's been really, really great for Kentucky and as a Kentuckian, I just, you know, I'm really thrilled about that. Um, and, you know, the fact that I'm a woman, I think, has been, kind of, secondary to me. I don't think of myself as a woman writer, I think of myself as a writer. And I think most of the distillers I've talked to you don't think of themselves as women distillers, they think of themselves as distillers. And I think we'll be there when the stories don't identify them as women distillers, they just say "master distiller so-and-so." Um, you know, I think we're getting there.

KLING: That's awesome. It, kind of, leads a little bit into my next question. Recently, you were on the podcast "Women & Whiskey, Stop Mansplaining Me."--(laughs)--I love the title of that. Um, even if you've not had the experience, it's still a great title. You talked about selecting barrels for special edition bottles. Could you tell me about the process and how you got started doing that?

CARLTON: I had the great fortune, um, to be on what they call The Bourbon Board of Directors, tongue-in-cheek, for a local, um, liquor store, the, um, owner of whom was a brilliant marketer, um, and he, um, engaged myself, Susan Reigler, who is another bourbon woman and who also I worked with at the Courier-Journal, um--and now she writes for Bourbon Plus, so it's a very small little community, um--and then, Michael Veech, who's another, um, bourbon writer. He 01:30:00asked us to help him select the single barrel selections for his store, and then he called us the Bourbon Board of Directors, which he could market. But essentially, what we did was, we would go to a distillery, like let's say Old Forester here, in Louisville, um, the distillery typically pulls three or four barrels that they think are different and good, um, for us to taste. Um, the master distiller, or whoever's leading tasting, um, takes a whiskey thief, which is basically a long copper straw--in fact, there's one sitting right here. Yeah, it's a long copper straw--someone made one for me--and they, you know, they dip it down into the barrel and take the whiskey directly out of the barrel, and we taste it at barrel proof. And, um, after we taste the samples, you know, we discuss and we decide which one we like the best, and then the liquor store purchases the entire barrel from the distillery, and all of the bourbon in that one barrel is bottled for that store. And so, that's what's 01:31:00considered a single barrel. And every barrel is a little bit different, so, if you buy a single barrel selection, um, you know, it will never happen again. It's totally unique. So, every bottle from that barrel will taste that way, but no other barrel is going to taste that way. So, it's a great thing for stores to offer because people, these days, are always looking for something new, something different, something exotic. Um, and the other thing that we look for in those, um, to get back to the Old Forester example, you want it to taste , you know, like Old Forester, but you don't want to taste just like what you can normally buy at the store. So, we're looking for a bottle that has a particular characteristic, maybe, of Old Forester. Um, because when these distilleries are putting these together for the regular barrels, they're blending from hundreds of barrels to get that same taste profile, whereas one barrel might have more of the fruit that goes into that, or it might have more spice. So, we're looking for something that's different, um, that tastes really good, that 01:32:00would justify somebody spending a little bit more money for that particular selection. Um, and that whole process was very educational for me in terms of how much influence the barrel has on whiskey. I mean obviously, it gives it a hundred percent of its color, because when bourbon goes into the barrel, it's clear, but it also contributes a tremendous amount to the flavor of the bourbon over the years that it's in the barrel. Um, you know, It expands into the barrel during summer, it contracts during winter, it's bringing some of those charred, um, barrel characteristics of vanilla, caramel, into the whiskey. Um, one tasting we did, um, we tasted three barrels. Two of them had been filled on the very same day, but with the very same mash bill, and they had aged for the very same amount of time, right next to each other on the same rick of the rickhouse So, I thought, "Well, aren't they going to taste exactly the same?" They tasted completely different, and it's because the barrels are made of different, you know, different wood. I mean, they're each made of thirty-three to 01:33:00thirty-five staves, which could have come from thirty-three to thirty-five trees, um, you know, so each barrel is its own little, um, you know, flavor capsule. And, um, that was really educational for me, and really interesting. I'm really fascinated by barrel science, um, and just how much, you know, that affects the taste. So, I did that for several years. Um, the store was then sold. And I've done just some, you know, occasional barrel selections but if you ever get a chance to go on a barrel selection, I recommend it, highly. It's really--it's really fun and educational.

KLING: That sounds like a great experience. Uh, we've about this a little bit, but what has helped broaden the audience of bourbon to include women, and, kind of, more so maybe from a marketing perspective?

CARLTON: I think the resurgence of the cocktail culture, honestly, has done a lot to bring in both women and younger people. Um, Mad Men, I don't think we can discount the importance of Don Draper. Um, you know, when that show 01:34:00came out, the very first scene of Mad Men has Don Draper asking for an Old Fashioned. And the Old Fashioned, the Manhattan, a lot of those classic cocktails had fallen by the wayside, because as I mentioned, people were drinking Cosmos and flavored vodka and whatever, and nobody was really drinking those classic cocktails anymore. Um, and when that show came out, their interest was piqued by it, and those cocktails made a real resurgent. Also, bourbons--different bourbons have such different taste profiles that they really lend themselves well to having bartenders build drinks around them. So, I think, you know, you've got a real shot in the arm there for the cocktail culture. And cocktails are a good way, I think, for people to, um, start to appreciate bourbon. You know, some people--wine typically is like twelve to fourteen percent alcohol by volume, and bourbon has to be at least--by law must be at least forty percent. So, that's a lot more alcohol, and that's a lot for some people. Um, but, you know, you can start to appreciate it in a 01:35:00cocktail and then you might decide, "Well, I'd like to try this, you know, with some ice, or neat, or whatever." You now, and I think that that was a good gateway for people into bourbon. Um, and then, I think, you know, you do see ads of bourbon now. You see commercials for bourbon, and they're not just focused on men. There have been some missteps. I don't want to name any brands, but there've been a couple of really, um, kind of, egregious commercials that ended up offending women more than they did attracting them, but again, that's again, just that perception and, you know, something that Bourbon Women is trying to help correct, of what women want out of a bourbon. I typically like to drink bourbon neat. I will drink it sometimes on the rocks. But I enjoy a Manhattan, too, so. And what I usually tell people is, "However you enjoy it, that's how you should drink it." Um, this bourbon boom has brought with it a rise of kind of, a bourbon snob class, and you know, those are the people who are 01:36:00like, "Oh, you can't put ice in bourbon. Oh, you can't do," you know, you can do whatever you want. I mean, you know, I think you should try something neat first, just to see what the distiller was going for. But you know, but all means, if you try a bourbon neat and it's too much, if it's too hot, too much alcohol, you know, put a little water in it, put an ice cube in it, try it again. You know, don't drink something that's making you make a face. That's not going to help you like bourbon and, you know, nobody wants that. Um, so, yeah, I think just those two things. Um, you know, young people deciding bourbon was cool, um, you know, that's really helped broaden the market, I think.

KLING: Hm, let's see, how has the role of women in bourbon changed in the last ten to fifteen years?

CARLTON: Um, well, as I mentioned, I think you're seeing--there have been several women who've been promoted to the role of master distiller, um, which I like to think, and I hope to think, is not just because they were 01:37:00women. I mean, obviously they're women who have worked in these distilleries for years. You know, when people are appointed master distiller somewhere, men or women, they typically have worked at that distillery for a long time. You know, they've worked their way up. They don't just waltz in and become master distillers. So, um, you know, these are women who worked in, um, you know, different areas of the distillery, and have worked their way up to become master distiller. Um, I do think that's being celebrated and promoted, um, a lot more than it probably would have been, and you know, just because it's different. There still aren't that many master distillers who are women. So, it's still something of a, you know, a novelty if you will. Um, but I do think that probably more women are going into bourbon. Um, you know, a lot of distillers had those father-to-son, um, lineages of master distillers, you know, your dad worked there--well, like Jimmy Russell and his son came to work there, or the Noes, the Beam family, they've had generations of master distillers. So, um, you're seeing that with t these new distilleries I think, especially, 01:38:00um, there isn't that lineage. So, um, there are more openings for people to become, you know, master distillers, um, to get in the door. Um, and I think there are a lot of people with, you know, chemical engineering backgrounds who are going into distilling, um, who maybe in the past would have, again, worked in the fuel industry or something, because there weren't that many distilleries. You know, now, that's a very viable path for someone who's interested in chemical engineering. And you're seeing women follow that path. Um, so, you know, I think it's just the fact that we have so many more distilleries, now. I mean, every state in the Union has a distillery, at least one distillery. Um, Kentucky still produces probably ninety to ninety-five percent of the bourbon in the world because we have the really big guys here, but, um, we don't have the, you know, we don't have the biggest number of distilleries, you know, when you count all of the distilleries, because a lot of other states are, you know, ahead of us in terms of craft distilling. So, there's just a lot more opportunities for, you know, men and women to work in distilleries 01:39:00now than there were even five or ten years ago.

KLING: Wow, that's true. With all that we've talked about, we're going to, kind of, start wrapping up. We're getting, kind of, close to on our time. Um, with all we've talked about that you've accomplished, who do you look up to in the bourbon industry?

CARLTON: Hm, who do I look up to? I look up to--you know, I really look up to, um, folks like Jimmy Russell and, um, Fred Noe, um, you know, those distillers who stuck with it through the good times and the bad, through the lean years, who kept bourbon going when it wasn't as popular, and maintained the quality, and the standards, and, you know, just never gave up on it. Um, and then helped to go out on the road--you know, they went on the road. I mean, Jimmy Russell and, um, Booker Noe and Elmer T. Lee, they went out on the road, um, 01:40:00and marketed, you know, because people wanted to see there was a real person behind this. You know, you had, um, brands that had, um, kind of, fake figureheads, like Bartles & Jaymes. Bartles & Jaymes were actors, right? But these guys were real. I mean, they really made it. I mean, Jimmy Russell tells this story about going into some mom-and-pop store, and talking about his bourbon and then, he was saying, "Well, I make it," and the little man called his wife and said, "Come meet him, he's real, he makes it," you know, and he's like, "Of course I'm real." But you know, it was, um, that personal connection, I think, really also helped to boost the bourbon industry, um, you know. And so, I really look up to them, um, for, um, you know, maintaining a product, um, and laying the groundwork for all the wonderful bourbons that we enjoy today.

KLING: Awesome.

CARLTON: And also, I think also--just to name a woman, um--Marge Samuels at Maker's Mark, Margie, because you hear a lot about Bill Samuels, 01:41:00and he of course made the bourbon, but she was the one who named the bourbon, who came up with the idea to put the red wax on it, who, um, chose the shape of the bottle. Not all of those things were, you know, financially probably the most prudent things to do, um, but she wanted it to have a certain look, and she was a collector fine pewter, and the pewter makers put their mark on the bottom. They make their mark. And that's where she got the name. And she also, you know, decided people might want to come visit us, so we should have a welcoming experience here. So, in a lot of ways, she was, you know, a precursor to bourbon tourism. So, she's finally getting her due, I think, which is good to see because she really, um, was overlooked for a while. But she was as much a bourbon pioneer as any of those other guys. So, um, I'd say those are some of them. But I mean, again, the whole industry, I think, you know--I've never met anybody that I didn't learn something from, and they've all just been so welcoming.

KLING: Is there somebody that is newer that you -----------(??) that you have noticed and you're like, "Oh wow, they're really trying, they're making a good effort to help continue with the bourbon industry."

CARLTON: Um, yeah, there's several. I think there's some really great craft distillers. I really like what they're doing at Wilderness Trail, in Danville. Um, their, um, distiller there, Patrick Heist is a fermentation expert. He's a PhD in chemistry. Um, he looks like one of the guys from ZZ Top, and he's very down-to-earth. Um, but he's doing some really great stuff. You know, um, Limestone Branch. Here in Louisville, we've got Kentucky Peerless Distilling, which is one of the places that's reclaiming a family tradition. Um, 01:43:00and they're doing some really awesome, uh, rye whiskey, you know, I think there are certainly people who are coming up who are--I don't think we're going to have any problems maintaining fine whiskey, here. Um, there's a mother-daughter team in Shelbyville, Joyce, and Autumn Nethery, um, and they have a distillery, um, Jeptha Creed, and that's a neat story. They had a--she's a chemical engineer, the mother, and her husband, they have a farm. And so, he was a farmer and they wanted--they thought, "Well, what can we do to bring these interests together and leave something for our kids?" And so, they started growing corn, and made a distillery. So, you know, that's, kind of, a neat, um, return back to the family distilling idea that we had, here in Kentucky for so many, you know, so many years. Um, so, yeah, I mean there are just--you know, and of course Peggy Noe Stevens, I have to mention her for having the idea to put together Bourbon Women, and just really being a force, um, you know, to help elevate women in the industry across the board.

KLING: Yeah, definitely. What do you hope your bourbon legacy will be?

CARLTON: Well, I really hope there's a second edition of this book, um, on the shelf at some point.--(laughs)--Um, you know, I hope that, uh, you know, I've helped to tell this story, and I think that's my legacy. It's not about me, it's about the, um, distillers, the new distillers, you know, the history of Kentucky. I mean, if I've done anything to help promote that, to elevate that, then I think I'm proud of that. Um, again, I'm super honored that my book is a textbook. I never, you know, in a million years thought, "Oh, this will probably be a textbook one day." But you know, I think I try not to put myself into it much. I think I'm telling other people's stories. And, you know, I hope that in some small way what I've done has helped to promote Kentucky, promote the industry, overall, and, you know, contributes to this bourbon renaissance that I hope continues for years to come.

KLING: Speaking of that, I was going to ask you, where do you see the industry in five to ten years from now?

CARLTON: Um, you know, it's tough to say. It's one of those industries where, you know, bourbon has to age. You can't hurry it up. You know, I think we have, kind of, a fast-food culture in general. We want things right now and you can't have bourbon right now. You have to wait until it ages. But I think, you know, I certainly hope that the thirst for bourbon continues because all of the producers have ramped up. They're certainly planning out into thirty, forty years from now. Um, I mean, they're literally distilling things today that they aren't planning to release for years. Um, and, you know, I do think that, um, bourbon, if you look at the, uh, popularity of it in the past, it has gone, kind of, up and down. But I think adding this tourism element to it, and once we get past COVID and people can come back, I really think that's going to help to sustain the industry. You know, the amount produced can't just keep 01:46:00going up and up, it'll have to level off at some point, but I think that, um, the tourism piece really adds a sustainable element to it that it didn't have in the past. Um, because nobody imagined anybody would care about coming to a distillery and watching them make bourbon. But they do. I mean, I think everybody likes agricultural products. People like farm-to-table, um, and they like these TV shows about how it's made. You knoe, it plays into all those things, I think. Um, it's a great product. Um, it has a great story. I think people will continue--just like they do in Napa Valley, they don't just go to a winery once and never come back. You know, you go back and visit again. And I think that's going to help sustain, certainly the Kentucky, uh, and Tennessee industry, into the future, um, you know, once COVID is, you know, under control and we can, you know, welcome everybody back, um, in a big way.

KLING: Speaking of COVID, before we end, obviously after the last year that we've been in, and we're doing this virtually because we're not 01:47:00completely out of, um, it would be hard not to talk about COVID a little bit at the end, here.

CARLTON: Yeah.

KLING: -----------(??) has the year been for you, and how are you doing?

CARLTON: Um, I'm doing fine. I'm fortunate, being a writer, that I can work at home. So, I have been working at home since March of 2020, um, you know, for the university, for the magazine, the magazine, Bourbon Plus, I work at home on that pretty much anyway, because, you know, the production people are in Alabama, and I'm here in Kentucky. Um, you know, I do miss being able to go out and interview people in person, um, you know, and be, um, as in person. Um, I've led some bourbon tastings, virtually, where we send out samples and people can sample, but it's just not the same. You know, staring into a screen is not the same as being in a group and enjoying their company. You know, and I think 01:48:00there's obviously screen fatigue. I think people are just so tired of looking into a screen, that having, you know, even having a social hour thing on a screen is still a screen, so it's just not the same. Um, but, you know, as I said, fortunately, I've been able to continue, um, to work from home, and I've tried to, you know, really maintain the protocols. Um, you know, I've got my two vaccines, now. Um, but you know, it's been a tough year, just for my--you know, I've seen it affect my kids. You know, my son didn't get to have his regular--he graduated from high school last year. My daughter is graduating college this year, you know, they've missed out on a lot of the traditions and just being able to be with their friends. And so, you know, it's definitely--no doubt it's been tough. It's been tough economically for people. I'm worried about some of my local bars and restaurants, that I don't know if they're going to make it, you know, and that's a concern across the industry, too. Um, so, yeah, it has not been, you know, it's not been fun--(laughs)--for anyone. 01:49:00Um, and I, you know, I really do hope that we're close to the end, here, um, and we can get back to something resembling normal.

KLING: Yes, definitely. And speaking of that, we're now about nearly fifty percent of Kentucky adults, eighteen and over have been vaccinated. So, what are you most looking forward to, to get back to?

CARLTON: Um, I think I'm most looking forward to just being able to go sit at a bar and talk to a bartender and order drinks, and have them just make me something special and say, "Oh, hey, how are you doing?" and talk to people and not have to worry about, you know, masks and germs. I mean, we still have germs but, you know. Um, I think that's it. And also, I am looking forward to getting out and visiting some of these distilleries that I hadn't had a chance to visit before COVID, um, you know, they're popping up so quickly that there are several craft places I haven't been able to go to. So, I'm looking forward to 01:50:00just getting back out on the road, and, you know, visiting and tasting. And you know, a couple of weeks ago my husband and I went up to Madison, Indiana, which is about an hour north of here, um, and we went to a brewpub pizza place and sat outside, so we didn't have our masks on and, you know, everybody was far away from us. But we were, kind of, talking to people, you know, at a distance, and a man walked by with his dog and we talked to him. And I thought, "You know, like before COVID, this would have been a pleasant, but unremarkable afternoon," but it felt like the end of the zombie movie. It felt like, you know, at the end when they find the cure and people crawl back out of their homes, and they're--you know, I mean it literally felt like that. It was just like, "Oh yeah, this is what it used to feel like to just sit outside, you know, and enjoy a beverage and talk to people about, you know, nothing important." So, I think that's really what I'm looking for to the most is just, you know--I mean, bourbon is made to be enjoyed with your friends, you know, and I haven't really been able to do that for the past year, so I'm just really looking 01:51:00forward to gathering with my friends and toasting the end of COVID--(laughs)--and you know, um, and just, you know, trying to be, like, be normal again.

KLING: Yeah.--(laughs)--I think we all agree with you on that. Um, is there anything else that you'd like to add or make sure that is on the official record before we go?

CARLTON: Um, well, I guess I could mention that my grandmother's name was Lily Mae Palmer. Um, that's the grandmother who worked for the distillery. Um, and, you know, after my father passed away, um, I discovered that my mother, Joyce Harris, um, when she did drink, before she married my dad, she drank bourbon, too. She used to like to drink bourbon and 7UP. And so, we enjoyed a few, um, Old Fashioneds and a few cocktails. Uh, she unfortunately--she passed away two years ago, um, so she did see the book. She was one of my biggest, uh, marketing and PR people, um, for the book. But we were able to, you 01:52:00know, reconnect a little bit, um, and reestablish our bourbon heritage, um, just as Louisville and Kentucky have reestablished theirs. So, um, that's a good memory. And again, just, I really appreciate being asked to be a part of this project. I'm just, you know, really honored to be included.

KLING: Well, thank you so much we are so glad that you were able to come and talk to us. We've really enjoyed--I've enjoyed this, and I'm sure everybody else will, too.

CARLTON: All right. Well, thank you so much.

KLING: You're welcome. Okay--

[End of interview.]