Interview with Beth Burrows, April 20, 2021

ZETTLER: Okay. Hello. My name is Max Zettler. As a student in Dr. Fernheimer's bourbon oral history course in spring 2021, I am conducting this interview as a part of my coursework and the Women in Bourbon Oral History Project. Today is Tuesday, April 20th, 2021. And it is my honor and pleasure to interview Beth Burrows, using TheirStory here in Lexington, Kentucky. Thank you so much for joining us today. So, for the official record, please state your name.

BURROWS: Beth Burrows.

ZETTLER: Okay. And when and where were you born?

BURROWS: I was actually born in Olean, New York. ---

ZETTLER: Okay, uh, did you grow up there, um? ---

BURROWS: I did ----

ZETTLER: Go to elementary school, middle school there?

BURROWS: Uh, elementary school, half of middle school. So I moved to Kentucky halfway through my seventh-grade year.

ZETTLER: Okay, great. Um, and where in Kentucky did you move to?

BURROWS: Breckinridge County, Kentucky.

ZETTLER: Breckinridge, okay. So, tell me a little about your family.

BURROWS: Big family. Uh, definitely, uh, a "Yours, Mine, and Ours" type of family. Um, so, my parents--my mom and my dad had me. And then, they went their separate ways--(laughs)--and, you know, kind of built their own families you know, outside. So, we always joke that step is a four-letter word in our family. So, you know, my siblings are my, my brothers and sisters, no matter if they're step or half--and then, you know, of course my parents. So, I am one of ten. If you break it down across--(laughs)--all of us, um, and if you look at it in all of its little subsects, I am the only child, the middle child, the youngest child, and the oldest child, depending on how you look at it. So--

ZETTLER: Wow, okay.

BURROWS: --all the complexes. All of them. (laughs)

ZETTLER: Great. So, that had to be a lot for your parents, um. Could you tell me about them individually, their names?

BURROWS: For sure. So, uh, my mom's name is Mira Lynn uh. Her last name is Meyer now. She goes by Lindi, um. So, she is a teacher. She retired, and 00:02:00then jumped back into it just because that's how it goes. It seems my family just can't retire. Uh, my father is Terry Burrows Jr., and he is also a teacher. He still resides in New York. My mother resides down here in Kentucky with me. And then, uh, my mother is married to Mike Meyer, who is my stepfather, who is also retired, but still goes back and, and does things in the auto trade dealership game. That's just kind of what he's always known. And he couldn't get out of it. He just loves it so much he keeps going back. And uh, my stepmother is Betty Burrows, and she works in the medical field. So--

ZETTLER: All right. Um, so, what about your uh, family heritage, like your ancestry? Where uh, where does your family come from?

BURROWS: I believe we're Welsh. I need to do some digging. Um, I don't have enough retired family members yet that have gone through the--(laughs)--the lineage. It seems like that's, that's what happens is, you know, as soon as people start to retire, they start digging deep. But if I look at, 00:03:00you know, my last name--my last name is Welsh um, for Burrows. And I, I definitely have a lot of physical features that I think come from England and Wales. It was really funny. I was actually watching a documentary last night. And this um, gentleman's face flashed across the screen. And I had to pause it. And I sent it to everyone in my family. I was like, "This man is related to us--"

ZETTLER: (laughs)

BURROWS: "--guaranteed." He looks just like my grandfather when my grandfather was younger. Um, but yeah, so I'm going to say English, Welsh descent is probably pretty accurate.

ZETTLER: Okay, cool. Uh, so, now that we've covered uh, family background, all of that, um, tell me about your childhood. I guess we'll start first with New York, uh, and then kind of how--moving to, uh, er, Lou--or not Louisville, but Kentucky affected you?

BURROWS: For sure. So, active kid, always. Played a lot of sports. My family is very involved in sports, so, uh, with both parents being coaches and, you know, just kind of growing up in that atmosphere, it was definitely super active, um. I did things like, uh, you know, different clubs and groups and, and 00:04:00things growing up. So, it was, it was, a lot of that. Um, with two, two family--or two parents, excuse me, that are teachers, you know, and a lot of family members that are teachers, it was definitely rooted in a lot of things with education and mentorship. So, I spent a lot of time tutoring. Um, and, and that kind of carried on when I moved to Kentucky. So, my mom and my stepdad decided that they wanted to get out of New York. And they wanted to move further south, but not so south that there weren't all the seasons. So, they settled--(laughs)--in Kentucky, um, in Breckinridge County, Kentucky. And like I said, it was about my seventh-grade year, uh, midway through. So, I moved, um, like, right after Christmas. I actually, um, got to Kentucky on New Year's Eve before--of 1999. So, like, the Y2K night, um, was my first--(laughs)--night in Kentucky, when everybody was wondering what was going to happen. Um, I'm definitely dating myself at this point. But yeah--(laughs)--um, that's, that's when we moved here. And it, it just kind of, you know, carried on. My 00:05:00childhood still--lots of involvement, lots of clubs, lots of mentorship, lots of sports. So, I did play, um, volleyball all the way through high school. And, of course, you know, with, I had to be president of something and secretary of this, and--(laughs)--you know, all of those things. So, um, that was really, you know, my time growing up, just spending time with friends and, and being super active within the community and within my school.

ZETTLER: Okay, great, um. So, with both your parents being teachers, uh, did you not want to be a teacher at all growing up, or did you want to be a teacher, maybe? What did you want to be growing up?

BURROWS: (sighs) I had a lot of things. Veterinarian was one that stuck pretty, pretty hard when I was younger. I definitely wanted to deal with animals and all of that. And then, as I grew up and, um, shifted a little bit more--(laughs)--away from science, I'd say, and more into things like, uh, communications and arts and, and stuff is really where--English was really where my interest was--and language as a whole. Um, and so, you know, I, I 00:06:00always joke with my mom--she always told me not to be a teacher because--(laughs)--you know, I got to deal with the struggles that she had going on. And she was like, "Just promise me that you won't, you won't be a teacher when you grow up." And then, uh, after a few years in college, she's like, "You know, you probably should've been a teacher." And I was like, "Listen--(laughs)--you told me for so long I shouldn't." Um, and that was just because she didn't want me to have to go through the hardships that, that she had been going through. And, you know, teachers are definitely value--like, so valuable in our society. And unfortunately, they aren't always compensated for that value. So, um, she just wanted to look out for me. But I think, you know, teaching was always something that I was going to do. Coaching was always something that I was going to do. I was just going to find a way to do it, kind of in my own right. And, and with my job now, I think I definitely do educate. And so, I am a teacher of sorts. I just happen to be a teacher of whiskey.

ZETTLER: All right. So, um, where, where did you go to high school?

BURROWS: Breckinridge County High School.

ZETTLER: Okay. And then, uh, after that, um, where did you attend college?

BURROWS: I went to the University of Louisville.

ZETTLER: Louisville, great.

BURROWS: Yeah. (laughs)

ZETTLER: So, um --(laughs)--was that--were you already interested in bourbon at the time, and that's why you chose, uh, Louisville, or was it just, just something else?

BURROWS: So, honestly--I mean, like let's just be real honest, right um?

ZETTLER: Right.

BURROWS: You--going through--I actually had a full ride to Murray State University. Um, I, I had done a lot of things, gotten quite a few scholarships. Like I said, I was incredibly active. So, I had the opportunity to apply for certain scholarships and things. And so, I did have that full ride to Murray State. Um, and I was going to go to school for psychology. That was really--you know, about my seventh-grade year, I started to decide that psychology is what I wanted to look into. And, and art therapy, specifically, was something that I was very interested in. And so, um, you know, that was kind of what I was going for. But I went to Murray. And it's such a beautiful campus. And they did have such wonderful programs. But because the majority of my graduating class was also going to be going to Murray, I decided that I wanted to do 00:08:00something different. Um, I didn't want kind of like a high school 2.0 experience. I really wanted to be in a place where there were new faces, new opportunities, and, and a chance for more growth than I felt was going to be possible for me there. So, uh, went on a few different college visits. And I went to the University of Louisville. And it just, it sunk, it just sunk into my heart as where I was meant to be. And so, um, I definitely was excited to go. And I wasn't too far from home, which was nice. But I was far enough away that I didn't feel like I wasn't at least, you know, kind of branching out there. Um, so yeah, that's, that's kind of how it went. And I started with psychology. And, and that went away pretty quickly. (both laugh) My major--(laughs)--you know, as college tends to do sometimes. And I actually majored in, uh, sports administration. And I had a minor in communications. And, um, throughout this whole time, uh, I, I was working in the service industry. So, you know, from the moment I was able to get a job at sixteen, I started working in the 00:09:00service industry. And it was just something super familiar to me, and somewhere that I felt, you know, happy and comfortable and really thrived, as far as a working environment. And so, that's really where my love of bourbon came from--not so much my education, of, what was happening in my, my collegiate career--but more along of what I was doing in my--you know, my work on the side, which would eventually become my actual career.

ZETTLER: That's, that's really interesting. Um, so, what--how did you get introduced to bourbon? What's your first, like, memory of just being introduced to bourbon, or--

BURROWS: Um, being in college--being of age--and having someone pull a handle out of the freezer was my first experience, of, of someone, you know, in their home--so we were all twenty-one--and in their home. Just kind of pulled that out of the freezer. And it was just, it was such a staple in Kentucky to have that, and to start listening to people who came from areas like Bardstown--who came from Lawrenceburg and, and were having these experiences and being 00:10:00with bourbon their entire life, uh, becoming really close friends with people who definitely had bourbon in their veins--(laughs)--um, because of whether their family had worked there, or because, you know, that's where they grew up. But that was kind of my first introduction into it--where the people who had already been living and breathing it for so long. And, um, they just kind of, like, brought me onto that journey.

ZETTLER: Okay. So, so, it was kind of--you got introduced to it more so--you know, drinking it at first, and then--

BURROWS: Oh, sorry. I got a phone call right in the middle of that. Can you repeat it?

ZETTLER: Oh. So, at first, um, you just were introduced to it, uh, just by drinking it--

BURROWS: Sure.

ZETTLER: And, and then, it kind of became your business throughout college. That's, that's really--

BURROWS: Right. Yeah, I mean, being in the service industry, I'm of course serving it. But I wasn't, I wasn't necessarily in a place where it was a huge education on the spirits itself. It was more of, like, a neighborhood bar atmosphere. So, you know, we were working along with what regulars 00:11:00drank on the regular. We weren't necessarily educating. So, it wasn't until a little bit later that, you know, my bourbon education and my love for the whole category of American whiskey really took off.

ZETTLER: Okay. So, uh, my, my next question is what was your, your very first job out of college?

BURROWS: Very first job out of college--let's see. That would've been--I--service industry. I mean, I continuously worked in the service industry from the time I was in college. I had moved to a couple of different places in the city, um, you know, done some fine dining, done a little bit more of the neighborhood pub aspects, uh. At that point in time, I was doing an entertainment space. So, um, it would've been Fourth Street Live at that point in time. And that was, that was my job, alongside, um, being a high school coach. So, I was coaching volleyball and softball for, um, high school girls.

ZETTLER: Okay. Excellent. Um, so, I read somewhere that you worked 00:12:00for Down One Bourbon Bar?

BURROWS: Yes.

ZETTLER: Okay, um can you tell me a little bit about your experience there--how that might have helped you, um, with your job now?

BURROWS: It's 100 percent why I have my job now. Um, in 2013, I had gotten out of the service industry game a little bit. It wasn't--it was just very draining. The hours were very difficult. Um, and, and some things had happened to where I just decided I was going to try a different path. Um, and so, when I was kind of moving around, I ended up in business liability insurance, um, for a little bit, which is not the field that I thought I was going to be in, um, nor was I having much fun. No offense to any insurance professionals out there, but that was just not, not, the gig for me. Um, and I needed to get back into the service industry. It was something that I, I missed the hustle and bustle of it. I missed the interaction with people. You know, I went from being with people all the time in, in almost--just this ever-revolving door of faces to 00:13:00being in an office in a small, you know, space with only two other people. And they were doing their own thing. So, so, it was just a different experience. So, um, in 2013, they were opening Down One Bourbon Bar. So, in 2012, I reached out to some folks that I knew that were doing some hiring there and essentially said, "Can I just come in for an interview?" And, and they told me off the gut that the only thing that they had left was a serving position, and that I would technically be taking a step back from where I was when I left the service industry. And I didn't care. I was like--(laughs)--"Just let me in. I don't care. Ground floor--if I have to clean the floors, if I, um, you know, a custodial agent, whatever it might be. I just--I want to be in this again." And so, um, I started--and we started with education right away. And that was because it was being built out. So, we hadn't even opened our doors yet, and they were going through what makes bourbon bourbon education--putting us together with distilleries. We were going on distillery tours. And it 00:14:00was just this immersive experience. And by the time we opened our doors--I believe it was February 25th of--(laughs)--2013, um, you know, we were working through this amazing space that had about a hundred bourbons on, on the menu in downtown Louisville, on what would become, you know, strongly Whiskey Row now--wasn't quite as established then. Um, and I just--I fell in love with it. I fell in love with every aspect of it. And I quickly moved my way, you know, through the ranks as, as time went on. So, um, that was really--that bar in and of itself really kind of lit the fire of love--(laughs)--of, you know, bourbon and American whiskey in my heart. And then, just continued to educate me and continued to give me opportunities to where I could grow um, and--you know, within my, my time there and moving up in the ranks, but also just gaining more responsibility, um, being put behind the bar eventually--being able to work and go into bar um, competitions, right, and cocktail competitions --so 00:15:00really getting to kind of learn that aspect of things. And, and so, yeah, I owe absolutely everything to, to my time at that bar.

ZETTLER: Excellent. Excellent. Um so now, I'm going to move into how, how you came into your role at Beam, maybe how it was offered to you. Take me through that whole process, your transition.

BURROWS: For sure. So, um, as I'm going through, uh, like I said, we kind of had moved along at Down One. And it wasn't just the bourbon bar. It actually had a delicatessen and an ice cream shop attached to it. So, it was all three entities--very different, but, like, super fun and, you know, different things that we could do there. And so, um, my general manager had left. And I was an assistant general manager at the time. And so, I basically took on the role of general manager without taking that role on. And so, that was a lot. It was definitely a lot to, to be running three entities. At this point in time, I was--let's see, that would've been 2015, so six years ago--I was like 00:16:00twenty-seven, I'd say at that point in time, um. And so, a very new opportunity for me. And, and I ended up with the general manager position after a while. And right--pretty shortly--(laughs)--after that happened, the person who was in the role as the American whiskey ambassador here in Kentucky for Beam Suntory, was going to be moving out west. Um, she and I had already created an, an amazing relationship. We worked together quite a bit within what was happening at, at the bar. And that's really--I mean, just a small side cap, the amount of people and relationships I was able to form as, you know, a working member of Down One Bourbon Bar, im-immeasurable and absolutely invaluable. I mean, just the amount of people--but Megan being one of those people. And she came to me and said, you know, "I'm going to California. It's not quite out yet. But it is happening. And, um, I can't do anything except really tell you that my position will be open, and I think you would be great for it." She was like, "But you're going to have to interview on your own, you know. You're going to have to do 00:17:00everything on your own." And so, she said, "But I really think you should apply." And I did. Uh, and it took--oh my goodness--, um, three months and five interviews before--(laughs)--I was actually hired on. And I got the phone call, um, on my birthday. I was on vacation. And I got the phone call on my birthday that I had received the, the job, and that I would be starting within, you know, a week and a half or two weeks. So--

ZETTLER: That exci--what a birthday present, huh?

BURROWS: Right? It was fantastic, absolutely fantastic.

ZETTLER: So, tell me a little bit about what an American whiskey ambassador does.

BURROWS: --(small laugh)-- That's changed over the last year just a little bit, because--(laughs)--of our wonderful situation that's happened. But really, you know, my role is to educate, um, edu-tain, if you will, so, like, a combination of education and entertainment, um, so making sure that I educate in a fun and intriguing way, um, coming up with new ways of showcasing these 00:18:00brands and bringing them to the people. So, I think each person definitely does this role in their own way, and they, and they do it differently. For me, I definitely approach it from a historical aspect and, you know, where I feel like these brands fit. So, because my, my portfolio is so vast--you know, I cover everything with Jim Beam on the label--Knob Creek, Booker's, Baker's, Basil Hayden, Little Book, Legent--like, literally, it, it just continues on. Um, I''d say it's somewhere around twenty-three brands any given time, give or take, um, you know, with new expressions coming out here and there, and then things being discontinued. But, um, you know, finding a way to bring these brands to life, uh, I always joke that I really try to be the embodiment of my brands. I try to be the embodiment of the, of the Kentucky hug, which is what we talk about when you taste, right. You get that nice hug from the inside out. That's my job. My job is to bring that in the person form and to be as knowledgeable as I possibly can on our family history, on bourbon history, on the process of 00:19:00bourbon, and, you know, the creation of bourbon, and what it takes as, as far as chemistry. I'm not a chemist by any stretch. And I'm not a historian. But I always joke with people, like, "I didn't care about history and chemistry until I realized just how much it had to do with American whiskey." And now, I want all the things, right. I want to be all of those things. Um, so, really, you know, my job is to, to bring these brands to life in market with bartenders, with, you know, different folks like liquor stores--and of course, with consumers--and being that face outside of the distillery that people can associate with bourbon knowledge and American history knowledge.

ZETTLER: All right. Thank you. So, who, who do you primarily interact with on a daily basis? Like who's your--you mentioned consumers. It could, it could be anyone, um--

BURROWS: Yeah--(small laugh)-- It flows. It, it's a different, um --(clears throat)--, a different, set each week, right. So, what folks need from me across my territory--and then even, you know, especially with it being COVID 00:20:00over the last year, the territories kind of melded together. And, and it was just who was available to take things on. So, you know, I, I actually did, um, a virtual event where we had nineteen different countries tuning in, which was one of the most insane things to, to think about. It was not something that I would have ever thought could happen prior to our COVID year. Um, and those were all pretty much service industry professionals, whether they be on the distribution side of things or the brand side of things, or even, you know, just the bartenders and, and professionals that way. Um, but I mean, this week, I'm traveling to Knoxville, Tennessee. And I'll be talking directly to consumers. And so, there's that. And, and I, I've also done some staff trainings this week, you know--(laughs)--as people are starting to open their bars back up. So, it really is a mix. I would say I probably primarily speak to more trade folks--so more bartenders, um, liquor store people, and, you know, owners and, 00:21:00and establishments.

ZETTLER: Okay. And yeah, you mentioned a little bit, uh, obviously, COVID-19 has affected everybody differently. You being in such a service-based industry, uh, where you're dealing with uh, face-to-face interactions primarily, um, how have you--what personal adjustments have you had to make um, over the course of the past year?

BURROWS: I look at my computer a lot more now, um (laughs)--than I ever did in the past um. I, It's been a very interesting adjustment, because I think the way that things went last year, it was expected that we wouldn't have the same avenues to work in. And so, that learning adjustment and that learning curve was going to take time. And we didn't have time. We really needed to keep things going. And so, I did that however I knew how--and it was probably honesty mostly for my sanity, if I'm being--(laughs)--truly honest, because I wouldn't have been able to just, you know, sit and do emails. That's, that's not--that doesn't do well for me. So, um, I started coming up with different programs. 00:22:00At, at first, you know, when we thought that the pandemic was going to be a shorter period of time, you know, they were maybe weekly challenges to keep people engaged. Um, I started a Monday playlist, where I would have people, you know, give me one song that was helping them get through the week. And we would create something there. We would have whiskey Wednesdays, or Tuesday tastings, or, you know, like--I really like alliteration. Um--

ZETTLER: (laughs)

BURROWS: But, you know, we would do(laughs) we would do things that were just helping keep people together, because one of my jobs is community. And, and the person that I am, I think, is just being someone who wants to build community around them. And so, um, that was really a big piece of what we did there--and changing our educations to be a bit more virtual-based, so doing a lot of videos for people on--whether that be like cocktail building or tasting notes or, you know, anything like that. If I couldn't be live, and they needed to repurpose it, that was a great way for that to happen. Um, and my biggest pivot, I would say, was my Sunday porch session. So, when everything really started 00:23:00to get deep last year, I'd say--you know, so in June, when we started to see, um, a bit of civil unrest--we already--you know, that, that's been there for forever. But, um, you know, to start seeing the activism that was happening on top of, um, what was going on with the pandemic, and people just kind of being stuck, I decided that I wanted to start something, um, that was going to, to bring people to the distillery when they couldn't be at the distillery. And so, Sunday porch sessions was born as a way for me to sit on the porch and have conversations with my friends from the industry and be able to have people tune in and see those conversations and, and really feel like they were part of--just sitting on the porch with us. We were just doing it virtually. And so, we started that in--I want to say it was, like, April, and then we, we took a little time in June to make sure that we were focusing on the correct things and, and then, being able to bring, um, certain guests on to have 00:24:00these conversations and tackle things that we wouldn't typ-typically tackle probably in a bourbon conversation. Um , but bringing in our--one of our companies that produces all-a lot of rye for us and our production, and talking to the owner of, of that company, and talking to her about her journey, because she'd been with Beam, you know, as a, a partner since the seventies--and her father before that. So, you know, to have those conversations--she also happens to be a transgender woman. So, speaking about what that was like, um, and her transition in an early 2000s time period, when people didn't know so much about that. And so, like--(clears throat)--this--the opportunity for me was it-just pivotal in how I was able to make it through the last year and build up this community that didn't necessarily exist before porch sessions. And we thought it would last like this much time, right--like, everybody thought the pandemic was going to be pretty quick, or at least a lot of people did. Um, and I 00:25:00thought that this would last like a month or two, and, and then, you know, porch sessions would die off, as people started to come back to the distillery. Well, obviously, that didn't happen. And, um, so, last year, porch sessions lasted twenty-six sessions with twenty-five different guests over the span of April to December. And yeah, it was, it was a really crazy, um, but awesome experience. And that carried into this year, you know. We're still in the midst of this. But even as the world opens back up, Sunday porch sessions lives on. So, that's a really cool pivot that happened for me that got me through and helped me kind of talk in ways that I wouldn't typically be able to talk, but still being able to relate everything to the American whiskey journey.

ZETTLER: That's awesome. Um, so now, I'm uh, I'm going to ask what it is like to be a woman in a male-dominated industry, I would say. Whiskey, bourbon, uh, we, in this class, have, covered um the history of women in bourbon. And 00:26:00there is an extensive history of women in bourbon. Um, but we also discussed how it is male-dominated, um, and especially the outside perception is that of--male-dominated. So, if you could talk a little bit about, uh, being a woman working at Jim Beam or being a woman in the whiskey, uh, business in general.

BURROWS: For sure. So, I think it really started to hit when I was at Down One, um, and being a person who definitely was one of the most educated people on the staff--and often being overlooked as an uneducated person because I happened to be female. Um, so, people would ask my barback questions. And thankfully, I always had a great community around me. And, you know, he would always kind of--(laughs)--come back with, "You should be asking her." Um (laughs) you know, "I've only been here for a few weeks. She's been here for years," or whatever the concept might have been. But I think that, you know, as we dealt with people in general, you, you start to build up a little bit of a thick skin. 00:27:00You start to be able to, to give it back just as much--(laughs)--as you're receiving it and kind of stand that ground. And I, I think that having that time at Down One to do that was very valuable--and having a community around me of people who believed in, in me and my education in American whiskey and my way of being able to convey that information. And so, you know, moving into this role, it is definitely a male-dominated role. You are still dealing with sexism. You are still dealing with, um, you know, "Well, how could you possibly know?" or "Are you a family member even?" you know, like, I, I have to be born into the family in order for me to understand and fully comprehend. And that's obviously not the case. So, you know, being in this role, I think we're starting to see a lot more women in major places within distilleries--whether they be in the master distiller position in certain places or uh, master taster positions--and, and just women across this industry start to be recognized. Um, I 00:28:00think that this is becoming a bit more of an inclusive space, especially for women. Uh, and so, having that is fantastic. And seeing it happen in real time is amazing. And, and really just kind of being so hopeful for the future--and, and the future of women in this industry--and feeling comfortable taking the step in, because it's not so abnormal to see, you know, a woman in that role or to you--push the envelope. And there's a lot of areas that are still very, very male-dominated. And you don't have the female spokespeople. And you don't have, you know, a lot of female representation. I know of certain areas where there's no female representation. And so, I think it's great to have classes and, and certifications and things that are allowing us to start at an even earlier level, you know, to get people interested and to get them into these careers.

ZETTLER: So, that's, that's interesting to me. Could you speak to diversity within Jim Beam, uh, the company itself, or at least from what you've experienced?

BURROWS: Um, I have a lot of female superiors. Uh, I have a lot of female directors around me. And it's fantastic to see that and to see it in so many different ways--whether that be in the marketing side of things, the communication side of things, even at the distillery itself. You know, you start to see um, some amazing women in roles. Like I'm sitting right now--I'm in the global innovation center, uh, because it's a great backdrop for me, and I don't have to be at home. So uh,(laughs)--but in the global innovation center itself, our sensory scientists are mostly female. Uh, you know, a lot of these different roles and behind-the-scenes spaces--chemists and, you know, biologists, and everything that are, are here working--they're female. And it's-I don't really turn many places anymore and not see a lot of, of women faces, and, and strong women, and incredibly educated women, and hard-working women, and 00:30:00so--you know, coming from all different walks of life, all different education backgrounds. And, you know, having that and seeing that is super helpful to me to stay motivated and, and having that sense of belonging, right, because it-I think it's super important if you're here and you're around that you feel like you are represented--and it's not just you, and you're not the one person that's, you know, kind of fitting the demographic. And uh, I, I know that especially over the last year within Beam Suntory, we've taken a lot of time to be introspective and start looking at marginalized um, groups that maybe don't have as much representation, um, or we're not looking at that group in as much of a comprehensive way as we could. And so, we started our EIGs right, our Employee Engagement Groups. And with that, we start to see a lot of work that goes into making sure that everyone is, is taken care of in ways that 00:31:00only people who represent that group really know the struggles of. So, I think to, like, our prism group, which represents the LGBTQIA [lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, intersex, and asexual] community, and then making sure--as we go through policies within our company--that we are all taken care of, and, and people who are in same-sex marriages are able to have the same paternity and maternity leave as people who are in, you know, heterosexual relationships. And it really--it, it lent itself to some pretty amazing things, including the best places to work for LGBTQIA families. Um, we received that award last year, because we, we hit everything, you know, that they look for in a company to be, um, as compliant as possible and as representative as possible. So, you know, I think that we're, we're doing all of these things to really look into that--and not just as a woman, who is typically, you know, a minority in this um, in this field, but also other marginalized groups and, and looking at the intersectionality evolve, because there are women in every single group of, of marginalized people.

ZETTLER: Uh, yeah, so we uh, we recently um, hosted in class a couple members of the KDA [Kentucky Distillers' Association]. Uh, and they recently formed a uh, a diversity inclusion, um like a board--as well. Um, and I was wondering--so this--you, you mentioned these employee groups as well. Um, have you seen any effect on racial inclusion since those have been started--or since you've been at Beam, have you seen an increase in racial inclusivity in the workplace?

BURROWS: I believe so. I mean, I think just because we're having the conversations. They're not, you know, behind closed doors anymore. We're actually having full-out conversations with Bold, who is our Black EIG within our company, and, you know, speaking about racial injustice--speaking up um, with our other group called Harmony, which is the AAPI [Asian American and Pacific Islander] population, and, you know, really looking at what these hate crimes are doing in our communities. We have people that work in all 00:33:00of these areas. You know, we have these, these different groups of people that we want to make sure have a voice within our company. So, within each one of these EIGs, we're seeing newsletters come out. We're seeing, you know, conversations being had. And they're very honest conversations, which is not something that you typically see in a corporate world. You know, we're not looking to be as PC [politically correct] as possible. We're looking to have the-these genuine conversations about, "This is how I feel as a person, you know, represented in this group or not represented in this group. And this is how I feel like things are, are going or need to go." And, and to have those valuable conversations--I've seen action taken within the last year for inclusivity all the way around--excuse me--whether it be rac-racial inclusivity, based on sexes inclusivity in LGBTQIA community, everything. It's, it's just become a much more open space to have these conversations, and for people to feel comfortable to say, "Hey, this makes me feel uncomfortable," or, 00:34:00you know, "Hey, I, I would really like to look into this, because it's affecting me and my family. And I think that we could do something on a larger scale, because I'm not going to be the only one."

ZETTLER: Excellent. And uh, you guys--you, working in Louisville, um, but really all around, I guess, um, guys must have been affected by the Breonna Taylor um, situation. Can you speak to how that uh, affected the workplace in Louisville?

BURROWS: So, I mean, our workplace downtown was already being shut down because of COVID. So, it didn't have much to do with necessarily the protest and things that were happening. It just happened to be kind of almost timed out in, in pretty, pretty close timing. But because downtown didn't have a whole lot happening, and we weren't letting people into the offices--we weren't really dealing with tourism--the urban stillhouse was no longer operational. Um, and the upstairs--everyone there that was doing payroll and things like that--they were able to do those things from home. So, we shifted everybody out 00:35:00of downtown uh, prior to everything happening. And then, with the obvious uprisings and everything that was happening here, it was definitely interesting to start having those conversations, because it's not something that you typically have in a corporate world setting, right. I think um, it hit home for a lot of us. And especially as someone who is very embedded within the community, I, I was in a seat um, where you have to really be introspective and, and really reflective on how you are giving back to the community. How are you supporting um, the different areas of the community? Are you making sure to be as inclusive as possible? And um, I was actually able to do an event, thanks to some amazing partners in Louisville, uh, with some of the frontline activists. We, we taught them how to make old-fashioneds. And they all kind of came together and, you know, came up with their own old-fashioneds. And it was, it was a safe space to have conversation. And it was a safe space to 00:36:00have a little fun, uh, you know, socially distanced fun, of course, and, and in very small numbers. But to have that, and then to have, um, a toast to the revolution, which was kind of what built off of that--so one of them, um, won the competition. It happened to be Keturah Herron, who is a huge advocate for the ACLU [American Civil Liberties Union] and um, been a very avid speaking on the Breonna Taylor case--her and her partner, Hannah. So, to be in a space with people who are making massive changes--who are working towards uh, eliminating no-knock warrants--and to be able to do that--obviously, it, it's separate because, you know, our brands just happen to be there and available for people to sip on. But for me, as a person, as a part of this community--and to have a space to say I want to be here to support this--I want to be here to understand all of the different aspects. And for them to understand--you know, all of these activists and for everybody who is really pushing for social change and social justice--to understand that my brand can be there, too, because--I 00:37:00mean, again, this is a very honest conversation. When people think about some of my brands--especially one of the major brands, um, they may not always think about inclusivity, and they may not always think about um, it being a broad-spanning bourbon--(laughs)--you know. They may kind of pigeonhole it into one space. And it is my job to be the embodiment of these brands. So, why are these brands not showing up in spaces that I show up? And so, really being able to bring them along with me and say, "Hey, you know, I, I'm here. I'm here to support. I'm here to listen." And my brands also come along with me. And I can also take that back to our corporate setting and say, "This is what's happening in Louisville. This is a hub for some massive change and some really big hurt and heartache. How can we help this community rebuild? And how can we give back to our community in a way that doesn't necessarily touch on any political lines?" because that's not what my job is. My job is not to be political. My job is not to be, um, you know, standing firm in one thing or another. As 00:38:00a person, I can. But, you know, with my brands, am I able to build community? And, and I think I was able to do that through the help of the community around me, which is a very long-winded answer. But--(laughs)--

ZETTLER: No, no. Excellent. That was an excellent answer. I appreciate it. Um--

BURROWS: (laughs)

ZETTLER: So, um, kind of--we talked about um, how you've noticed a lot of women uh, who are your superiors--who you're working around. And that's great. And it's certainly a far cry, um, from maybe what we've heard in the past or over the years. From your perspective, uh, do you think that you've seen a change within the last, maybe, five years or so? You've been in the industry a while, so do you- have you noticed the change, uh, specifically that, that women have been--I don't know--getting into roles of superiority more or, or rising up the ranks more? Um, have you noticed a difference?

BURROWS: I think I'm starting to see it more now. I don't know if 00:39:00it's--I, I, I do feel like there's an increase, for sure. I don't know what that increase is. It could be small. It could be large. Um, but I know that as I start to really evaluate who I am working with as my "superiors" or, you know, to ask some of those people in those director levels um, you know, to have them as mentors, to have them as a support staff. You know, to really be able to be my whole self and my genuine self and bring that one hundred percent to my role and my job and not feel like I have to maybe cut back on, um, I'm a super emotional person. That's just the type of person that I am. Blame it on my astrology. Blame it on whatever. Um but, you know--(laughs)-I'm able to bring that. And it's considered valuable. It's not considered a hindrance, right, for me to be very passionate about things--for me to get very emotionally invested in things and um, to care very deeply about things. And I'm one hundred percent supported in that. And I actually am surrounded by a lot of people who are, who are very like-minded and very like-hearted. So, I think that that's 00:40:00probably one of the biggest things that I've learned over the last, probably, I'd say five years, especially moving up through this--moving from having male bosses to having my first female boss. I, I received my first female boss um, last year at the beginning of, of 2020. We kind of had a shift within our company and the way that thing aligned. And, and because of that, I ended up with my current boss, and she's fantastic. And I, I'm thinking back. And I honestly think that this is, you know, of the highest regard, my my first female boss in my entire career, which is pretty astounding. And, and to really think about how our interaction has been--and to not feel--this is, like, taking a subsect of this. There always feels like there's one seat at the table for women, right. There's there's the one seat. And so, I've spent a lot of my life competing with other women, because I had to be, you know, the woman 00:41:00if I wanted to sit in that seat--and so, you know, being the most educated, being the most outspoken, being the most whatever it was that the situation called for. And then, I had a bunch of women around me that said, "There may only be one seat at the table. But I have two hands, and I'm going to drag more seats." And to have those people around me doing that and setting me up to where I can be successful and allow me to free up my two hands so that I can bring more chairs to the table, um, has been really, really invaluable. I think that, you know, I've seen it quite a bit more in the last five years. And I think it's only going to increase.

ZETTLER: Right. Okay. So, uh, now I'm going to move to--we've seen this, this amazing growth. But, but still, you mentioned um, there's that one seat. And there still are barriers uh, for women within the industry. Uh, and I'd like your opinion on that. What barriers may still exist, and, and what are some things maybe that we could do um, to break those barriers down?

BURROWS: Sexism is always going to be a huge barrier. Um, hopefully, it's a barrier that gets smaller and smaller. But I think that, you know, with this being a very male-dominated field for a very long time--and even a male consumer field for a very long time that you see ways that people act and talk and interact that are--(laughs)--a little less uncouth and a little less okay than maybe they used to be. And not that they were ever okay--but, you know, a little less acceptable than they used to be. And so, fighting those barriers of, "Are you just in this because you want to be surrounded by men?" That's something that I've been asked before. Um you know, "Are you just, you know, doing this because of XYZ reason?" that, that has nothing to do with my own personal passion and my own personal, you know, wants and beliefs. So, you know, I think that sexism is always going to be a hurdle. And, and listening to 00:43:00people and the way that people talk I, I think it's super funny because it's been a definite self-evaluation on what I used to let pass and what I can't, can't let slide any longer, because I want to make this environment a better environment for the people after me. And I think that --(clears throat)--you know, as we battle sexism and as we battle this stigma that women only want to be in fields that are male-dominated for some sort of weird, ulterior motive of, like, finding a husband or something--(laughs)um , you, you know, as we keep crashing those down, it's going to get better. But I think it's going to be a hurdle that we have for a time being. So, I--that's one of the major hurdles that I think that I, I have to constantly prove myself as someone worthy of being in this field--as someone educated enough to be speaking on those facts. And, you know, I show up as a woman in a hat and a dress and, you know, whatever it might be. And it almost takes some people listening to me for a while before they consider me a valid, a valid person to be having the 00:44:00conversation. So, yeah, there's still stigmas. There's sexist stigmas that we have to break through.

ZETTLER: Okay. So, um, you mentioned earlier that you have a lot of uh, bourbons in your portfolio. Um, my question to you is what is your favorite one to enjoy? If you were gonna, if you were going to choose one, what is it?

BURROWS: That's picking kids, man.

ZETTLER: (laughs)

BURROWS: That's like picking a favorite child. (laughs) Um, I always joke and say it depends on the day of the week and who's paying um, as to what, what my favorite sip is. I mean, really the best answer is, you know, what I want to drink is whatever's in my hand. But um, I, for me, I, I'm going to give you three--

ZETTLER: Okay.

BURROWS: --because I think that it's hard to, to just narrow it down. So, with us and Jim Beam Black being the staple that it is--I think that um, because of Jim Beam and the experiences that people may have had when they were 00:45:00too young to be experiencing, um, Jim Beam Black doesn't get its fair shake. And, and I think that it, it, it's a, a well-known favorite of myself, of the family, of you-a lot of people within this company. And so, that's a go-to for me for cocktails. That's a go-to for me if I want to sip a little bit easier because it's eighty-six proof. My other two, I would have to say I, I've got some love for Old Overholt, especially lately as we re-release, um, dealing with rye and really kind of getting into even a whole nother family dynamic with the Overholt family um, has been a really cool avenue. And, of course, the liquid itself is just fantastic. And then, Baker's. Baker's has a really special place in my heart. Um, the man himself has a special place in my heart. I absolutely adore him. He is one of our oldest living family members. Um, he is such a treasure trove of knowledge. And um, and his liquid is, as, you know, a brand that I have loved since before I started working for this company. 00:46:00So, to be able to be in it now--and not only just love, love the brands and love the juice, I also, you know, love the man. So--

ZETTLER: See, that's interesting to me. You mentioned, you mentioned that dynamic, um. Do you have uh, a good relationship uh, with some of the older family members? And can you speak uh, about just your relationship um, with those upper-level people in, in Beam?

BURROWS: For sure. So, I mean, with Baker's specifically, um, it came when I first started with this company. I noticed that we weren't really celebrating a whole lot of, of him. Not necessarily--it just wasn't a priority brand, right. And because it was one of my favorites--and because he is such, uh, you know, a, a treasure um, and he's one of oldest living relatives, he knows so much. Like, the man has not forgotten anything. So, he can recall a name and a time and a place from, like, 1967. It's insane. I can't remember last week. And he's just like--

ZETTLER: (laughs)

BURROWS: --"Oh, that's Johnny So-and-so." um so, yeah, um, it kind of started with--I was like, "I want to celebrate his birthday." And so, the 00:47:00first year that I--like, full year that I had been with the company, I celebrated his seventy-first birthday. And he had just suffered, um, the loss of his partner, who he had been with for ten years. And it was just a really--it, it was a time. But to be able to throw a party where we could put an homage to, um, you know, Miss Shirley in the corner for people to kind of, like, pay their respects and stuff. And he had a place to kind of, you know, grieve. It was the cutest thing. We used to call each other at five o'clock on the dot and have a sip together across the phone. And, you know, so we setup kind of, like, that situation. But also, he-his friend from his graduating class--he graduated quite a long time ago. And there's not a lot of them left. Um you know, they came with their significant others. And his, his family came. And so, it was just such a cool experience. And we've continued to do it year after year. And I think that my bond with him just grew over that. So, you know, I, I talk to him quite frequently during this COVID period. I got COVID tested so that I could be around him, uh, because he wasn't letting a lot of people around him. 00:48:00And so, you know, I made sure that we were extra safe. And we still had masks on and social distanced. But I was able to spend some time with him. And, you know, so that relationship has been fantastic. I um, have a great relationship with Fred and Freddie as well. Fred actually wrote one of my letters of recommendation for this job. Um so, I always joke with people when they're like, "How did you get your job?" And I'm like, "I had three master distillers write letters of recommendation for me," um, which is really--I truly--I did. Wes Henderson wrote one, and so did Dave Pickerell. Um, may he rest in peace. But, uh, you know, with Fred and Freddie it's- and Sandy and Kay, right, their wives, and, and even their children, it's it's a family affair. And I'm not family necessarily by blood. And I, I just hope that, that they can look at me as someone who cares deeply about their family heritage in, in the way that they are. At one point in time, Freddie said I was like family. I may have, like, written, like written it down in a journal because it was a super special day. But--(laughs)--you know, uh, I never want to assume that, because I am not family. But I really am, you know, I'm close to, to the family. And 00:49:00we have conversations all the time, because that's the best way for me to be able to convey things in, into the world the way that they would want them conveyed into the world, because it is their family. It's their lineage and, and their heritage. And um, also, you know, it's just--they're fun people. They're really great people. So--

ZETTLER: All right. Um so o, to you, um you've tried a lot of bourbons, a lot of whiskeys, um, know a lot about them. What make a good bourbon or a good whiskey to you?

BURROWS: I think it's the thoughtfulness in the process, right. Uh, the more meticulous and thoughtful that you are from grain to glass, the better your whiskey is. So, that doesn't mean that you have to pull a bunch of levers and be super--you know, like manipulating grain or manipulating this and that. I think it's, it's about quality. So, the quality of the grains that's going in, the quality of your distillation process and your fermentation process, the quality of what you're doing and how you're caring for your barrels it-as 00:50:00they age, because that aging period is really the longest time, right. The grains come in. They go into the mash. And then, they're directly into the distillation process and the--I'm sorry, the fermentation process, and then the distillation process. So, you know, that's a really quick turnaround time. And then, some of these are going to sit inside those barrels for nine whole years, if not longer. And that's really--you know, the care and meticulousness--going back through, having the people who are able to really assess things in, in a way that stays true to the brand, stays true to the flavor journey and the flavor profile that you're looking for. So, I mean, it takes a village. It really takes a village to create um, a quality whiskey. And I think that the more that that village is, is close-knit and has the same, you know, vision in mind, the better off you are.

ZETTLER: Right. A similar sort of question along those lines, um, it's it's a little bit fair to call you, like, a cocktail connoisseur. Uh, you know how to make a lot of, um--

BURROWS: Sure. I do, yes. (laughs)

ZETTLER: So, if you could pick two--if you could give me two of your favorites that you've ever made, or ones that you think are cool.

BURROWS: I'll forget, I, I've got them. So, my favorite cocktail is probably a paper plane. And so, the paper plane cocktail is definitely something that I--it's my spring, summer, and then into fall cocktail. So, in the winter, it's hard, you know, with your fresh citrus and stuff. And the, and it's a bit bright for a winter cocktail. But I think that, you know, that's definitely one of my absolute favorites. And I like to tinker and toy with the proportions and different brands and, and what I like. And then, my other one would probably be, uh, I do a baked apple old-fashioned that I really love. Uh, so, instead of just regular simple syrup, you do a brown sugar simple syrup. And then, you have bak-baked apple bitters and some whiskey barrel bitters. So, the two of those things together--that's what I sip in the winter, right. (laughs) So, I've got my paper plane for the warmer months. And then, my winter is the baked apple old-fashioned.

ZETTLER: Excellent. Excellent. Um, And so, just, so just in general 00:52:00bartending class here, what is uh, important in making a good cocktail?

BURROWS: Freshness is key, so making sure that you're using fresh ingredients when you can. Obviously, you can't always do that. But if you can do fresh juices, you know, right there on the spot, um making sure that you keep all of your ingredients where they need to be, right. So, your bourbon should never be in direct sunlight. Um, if you're using vermouths, you're making sure that your vermouth is always refrigerated. And you use them all within a timeframe, right. Like, some of them some ingredients do go bad. Some of them just don't get as uh, don't stay as good for as long. But really, you know, the care in how you're putting them together--it's just like cooking, right. So, making sure that each step of the process is uh, precise and also the best that it possibly--sorry, somebody just went rolling by--

ZETTLER: You're good.

BURROWS: --and I was like, "Wait, what?" Uh, I think he's just jogging. So --(laughs)--that's really--you know, making, making a cocktail is, is 00:53:00just making sure that everything is uh fresh as possible.

ZETTLER: Okay. Great. And my last question for you here is over the course of your career, um, is there one person, uhor maybe multiple people, uh, that you would consider mentors, uh, or people that have helped you out just in a huge way?

BURROWS: For sure. Um, I think it starts with a man named Christian Hattemer, um, who used to be my general manager when I was at Down One. He, he's the one that opened that bar. And he is the one that helped pull me through the ranks um, and really pushed me um, and hold me accountable as well. So, you know, like, he--lots of people tell you this, that, you know, sometimes it just takes a minute for it to sink in. It's like it's okay to mess up, just own your mistakes, right. Um, it's okay to not be perfect the first time that you do something, as long as you're trying and you're getting better and, and learning from those things. Um, and he was continuously supportive of me and 00:54:00my decisions to do things. So, you know, for him, I think he was one of my first real mentors within this industry. Um, and then, I would say there was a cluster of women who have been a major mentor to me. Megan Breier, the person who had this position before me--Jane Bowie, who works at uh, Maker's Mark and is responsible, really for their entire uh, private select program and coming up with new, inventive ways of them producing it and creating new brands within their brands. Um and then, Rachel Ford was also a major part of that as well. And so, you know, those three women--especially at Down One, when I was there--they were the ones that helped me with some of my crazy ideas and bringing them to life. They were, um, you know, some of the people who have been my biggest cheerleaders and my biggest supporters--even if it's not always out loud. You know, they-they're the ones that speak up for me in a room--like, you know, when--the true people and the true people that care about you are the ones that, that say good things about you when you're not there. And I 00:55:00know for a fact that all three of those women do that. They, they bring me into those spaces when I may not be there already. And they, they always, you know, make sure to take care of, of me, and my reputation, and all of those things. So, I think that, you know, that's that's three amazing women. And I hate to put them in just a cluster. But that cluster of women definitely have been my mentors and super helpful in creating the person that I am today.

ZETTLER: Great. Great. So, what can we expect in uh, 2021 from Beam Suntory? Is there anything we can look forward to soon,uh, like new development?

BURROWS: For sure. Of course. Well, uh, so there will be--the next chapter of Little Book will be releasing this year, which is super exciting. We don't have information out to public yet about exactly what that mash bill looks like and, you know, the different mash bills that are going to be coming together for that. Um but that's definitely something that we need to look out for. Um, we have our distillery under construction right now. But it will be up and running by the end of the year, which is incredibly exciting. We will have a 00:56:00new bar and restaurant here on site. Um, the American Stillhouse is becoming the American Outpost and will have all sorts of um, different, new, engaging, and entertaining things--and also educational things within, um. And then, we have the Fred B. Noe Craft Distillery that's going up. And that's probably what I'm most excited about. Um, Freddie will be spearheading the majority of things that are happening there. That's where a lot of our education pieces are going to happen--where a lot of our innovations are going to be moving forward. And we're really just going to be able to kind of pull the curtain back for people to see what innovation looks like, um, you know, what the true process of 226 years of Beam family history and Beam family whiskey-making looks like. And so, you know, having that right on site is going to be just instrumental in the growth and progression of education within American whiskey, and specifically within the Jim Beam distilling company.

ZETTLER: Excellent. Um, is there anything else that you would like to add or make sure is on the official record here?

BURROWS: Um, I mean, I don't know. Right now, we're working on the Knob Creek Jogging Club, which is pretty cool. Um, when we talk about giving back to community and building community, I think that, you know, this definitely harkens back to that, because we, we created this program for bartenders when the pandemic really started. But, you know, as the legal process--it, it takes quite some time to get everything approved. So, it came about ten months later. But, you know, as the world's opening back up, we now have a hundred bartenders who are committed to a twelve-week program of wellness um, and working towards either a 9K, a 12K, or a 15K--little nod to Knob Creek nine, twelve, and fifteen there. Um, but, you know, just working on building this community through health and wellness. And, and you know, we're never going to say that bourbon is a healthy thing or a necessarily--those are two separate worlds, right, in, in how you view them. But when it comes to wellness and taking care of yourself--this is a really cool program. And we're a week-ish in. I'm, I'm four jogs 00:58:00in at this point. But I'm already seeing such an immense impact on how it's changing people's way of thinking and the way that they're approaching things. And so, I, I'm super proud of this program that's up and coming. And we still have eleven weeks to go. So, um, just want to through that out there. And it's just another weird, kind of strange way that we are able to build community. But it, it's such a--I say strange is a beautiful thing, right. So, it's definitely a really cool thing.

ZETTLER: Yeah, that is really cool. And I appreciate you adding it on. So, thank you um. And thank you so much for taking the time with me today. Uh, I appreciate it, you know, of course.

BURROWS: Yes, thanks for having me.

ZETTLER: So--

[End of interview.]