Interview with Dinah Bird, April 22, 2021

MONK: Hello, my name is--[audio cuts out]--student in Dr. Fernheimer's B--ah, Bourbon Oral History course in Spring 2021. I am conducting an interview as part of work for that class and the Women in Bourbon Oral History project. Today is April 22, 2021 and is my--and it is my great honor and pleasure to interview Dinah Bird, using Their Story virtually, due to the pandemic, although I'd love to be meeting in person. Thank you so much for joining me today.

BIRD: I'm delighted to be here, Maya. Thank you for the invitation. I'm very excited about this project.

MONK: Well, thank you. And I'm excited to learn more about your--your history and your background in this industry. So, for our official record, um, could you state your name?

BIRD: My name is Dinah Bird.

MONK: And when and where were you born?

BIRD: I was born in Lampasas, Texas.

MONK: So, tell me a little bit about your family background.

BIRD: Uh, I'm sorry. Repeat that question, Maya, please?

MONK: Uh, tell me a little bit more about your family background.

BIRD: Yes. I grew up on a ranch in Texas, and--which was in the central part of Texas near Austin. It was hill country, and it was rolling hills and it was a self-sustaining, uh, ranch. Uh, we raised almost all of our own crops. About the only groceries we really had to purchase was flour and sugar. Uh, so, uh, it was a great experience. We had a variety--we did mostly cattle, uh, but we had a variety of horses to ba--horseback ride. It--we had--we--the property was on a creek and river, uh, so we had lots of adventures fishing an--and doing camping, um, with outdoor activities.

BIRD: Awesome. Um, when and where--what and where were your parents' names and occupations, and where were they born?

BIRD: Uh, my mother was born in the same county, Lampasas County, uh, and her 00:02:00name was, uh, Anna Bird, uh, Anna Wiggum. And then, my dad was born in Oklahoma and, uh, he, uh, was, uh, a rancher and my mother was a homemaker and nurse.

MONK: Awesome. Uh, when did your family arrive in the US and where did your ancestors come from? What brought them here?

BIRD: Uh, my ancestors date back several um, or, uh--probably we think 1800s. Uh, they were, uh, Scotch-Irish and, uh--on my mother side. And on my dad's side, he was British, and, uh, again dates back to probably a couple hundred years. And, uh, he was British and, uh, he was about, uh, an eighth 00:03:00American Indian.

MONK: Awesome. I--I do believe that there was some Scotch-Irish in my family as well, so a little connection there on my mom's side.

BIRD: Yeah.

MONK: Um, how many siblings do you have and what are their names and ages relative to yours?

BIRD: Uh, I had three brothers. Uh, two older brothers a--who are now deceased, and then I have a younger brother that we were all about four years apart in age. And I was, uh, the third child.

MONK: The third, as--am I. Um, now that we've talked a little bit about your family background, let's shift gears and focus on your childhood. So, tell me about your experiences growing up in Texas.

BIRD: Uh, it was a great childhood. Uh, again, as I mentioned, uh, we lived on a ranch. Uh, it was, um, a little bit remote in terms of, um, having a 00:04:00lot of playmates, uh, but we, uh, were self-sufficient as I mentioned. So, we did a lot of horseback riding and a lot of rounding up cattle, branding, and breaking horses. Um, we, uh, did a lot of different things outdoors, as I mentioned. Uh, we camped or we went fishing, hunting. Uh, as a child growing up we, um, had a lot of work around on the ranch. We did our own hay and grain, usually, [background ding] silage. And, um, so, it was always, uh, something to do. I went to a, uh, school that had--my class was about 125 students, which was one of the largest classes they had ever had in that school. So, um,--(clears throat)--I went to the same school for twelve years. It was great. 00:05:00Uh, you--[audio cuts out]--some of those, uh, connections with my old classmates that I grew up with. My family was from Lexington, uh, until the Civil War, and then they moved out to be ranchers in Texas.

MONK: Awesome. So, where did you go to elementary, middle school, and high school?

BIRD: I went to Lampasas, uh, Elementary School, Lampasas Junior High, and Lampasas High School.

MONK: All kind of on the same campus there?

BIRD: Uh, no, they had different buildings for us. They were within a few blocks of each other. The town, uh, was about fifty-five hundred people, so it wasn't a very large town. Uh, so, it was, uh, you know, sort of a charmed childhood compared to maybe today. Of course, we didn't have all the social networking and--and social tools and computers that we had, so it was, uh, a 00:06:00relatively tight-knit community--[audio cuts out]--Pardon me?

MONK: --[audio cuts out]--childhood? Could you imagine your childhood with all the technology?

BIRD: It'd be awesome. It'd be awesome.

MONK:--(laughs)--Yeah.

BIRD: But having said that, uh, I think we had, instead of a lot of technology, uh, telephones, and texting, uh, we would get together and play, uh, baseball or basketball or something. So, I think outdoor activities--we participated in a lot more. You didn't always have a full team, but, uh, it was--it was still, uh--would have been nice to have the social media.

MONK: Definitely. But at least you had that one-on-one, in person communication, a little closer than, you know, we do these days.

BIRD: Yeah, I think so, Maya. I think that's very true.

MONK: So, what did you want to be, uh, when you grew up? And what were your thoughts on that when you were little?

BIRD: Uh, by about the second grade, I wanted to fall into my mother's shoes as 00:07:00a nurse and help people. Uh, and by the time I was getting into junior high, she encouraged me to not be a nurse but to, uh, go into the technology side of--of medicine. So, at sixteen, I started working in the local hospital, which was only about, I think, twenty-five beds, a very small hospital. And I worked there early in the morning before school and did laboratory test and, um, you know, became knowledgeable--a little bit knowledgeable, about that part of, um, medicine. And then, my undergraduate was uh--major was medical technology, which was basically a, uh, a dual degree, a dual major in biology and chemistry. So--

MONK: Did you--

BIRD: --I pursued that. And for ten years, I actually worked in--in that field 00:08:00and I, uh, worked in hospital emergency rooms at night, on weekends, to help fund my college education. And then, I also did medical research at Temple University Hospital and University of Penn Hospital.

MONK: Did you, um, wish that you pursued that any longer than you did? Or did you enjoy the experience that you had while you were doing the medical sales or the technology?

BIRD: Yeah, I enjoyed it, uh, because it's what I wanted to do. I wanted to do research. It's just once I got into it, I realized it was sort of slow. Uh, for example, I worked on--I worked with, uh, Sol Sherry, which is a father of thrombolytic, uh, therapy, and we worked on a protocol for streptokinase. And what that is, it's, um, it is a, uh, technique, or strategy--a 00:09:00medical strategy that you use if someone comes in the hospital within six hours of having a heart attack and it's caused by a clot in the heart, or, uh, near the heart, and you can inject this enzyme from strep bacteria and it will actually dissolve the clot. Uh, so, I worked on that protocol and it took--it takes years, sometimes, you know, for ten, twelve years or even longer to get something approved with the FDA. And fast-forward literally about forty years later, it is still, uh, the protocol of choice in a hospital emergency room in certain situations. So, although medicine moves very quickly, the process of drug approval or, um, new techniques or--or equipment is very slow. So, uh, I, uh, enjoyed it, but it was just kind of slow. I also got pegged into working with radioactive isotopes because I had that experience. And it's an 00:10:00unusual experience. And, um, I kept wanting to get away from that for health reasons, and I really couldn't. As soon as they saw it on a resume it was like, "Well, we need that." So, uh, so, there was a couple different reasons why I left. And, uh, I enjoyed it while I did. I still, um, keep up with a lot of medical, um, concerns, like the vaccine that has come out in the pandemic has been very interesting to me. Uh, but I'm glad I did that, [background ding] I have absolutely no regrets. But, uh, [background ding] I was glad to move onto something else.

MONK: Well, very interesting. And I just learned something there, so thank you for sharing that. Um, let's see, here. So, with regards to that and your schooling history, so you--you started that a little bit younger and then 00:11:00you went into school, but what other schooling passed your undergrad did you do? You went to grad school, didn't you?

BIRD: Yes. Uh, while I was doing medical research, I went ahead and got a master's degree in zoology. And I actually worked with fish hormones and published papers on a bioassay or a hormone called melanin-concentrating hormone, which in certain fish help them, uh, turn color so they can camouflage. And I did the analytical, uh, analysis of that hormone in terms of its size--the molecular size, if there's a positive cation or, uh--uh, anion and, um, did some different tests on it, and published that information. Uh, while I was doing research work, though, at the University of Penn Hospital, I had the opportunity to, uh, attend Wharton Business School. I got accepted, and I, uh, 00:12:00went to school there for a, uh, couple years and really liked the business aspect. And so, um, I decided to transition into, uh, business. And I ended up getting transferring to the Drucker School of Business and studying under Peter Drucker, the father of management science. And I finished up a second master's and PhD from Claremont Graduate School in Southern California.

MONK: So, you've got a lot of those under your belt here--

BIRD: --yes--

MONK: --a lot of school experience. Awesome.

BIRD: And then since graduating with a PhD, I have completed the Certified Financial Planning, uh, program, and that usually takes at least three years, as well as the Certified Investment Management Analyst, uh--uh, designation, so, um, I've--I've continued. I've also had, uh--passed about five or 00:13:00six or maybe seven different SEC license certificates. So, uh, Series Two, Six, Sixty-Five, Seven, uh, Twenty-Nine, uh, Twenty-Three, and Twenty-Four. So, uh, I continued my education at least in the area of investments.

MONK: Well, and your career did not stop at just your educational successes. You continued to get involved with what you're doing now. So, what was your first memory/encounter with the industry that you are now a part of?

BIRD: Uh, I worked, uh--after finishing up my PhD, I went to work for an investment management company. And I worked with clients globally, high net-worth individuals in about, oh, fifteen different countries. So, I 00:14:00would travel all--[audio cuts out]--all over visiting and working with these clients for their personal investments. And then, after doing that for about 10 years, I worked for Barclays Bank, a subsidiary of Barclays Bank out of London, but I reported to the subsidiary's office in San Francisco. And we had the opportunity to wine and dine, uh, clients in Napa and I thought, "Well, gee, I could do this." I grew up on a ranch. I knew a little bit about agriculture. I had taken horticulture classes in college as an undergraduate. And, uh, so, I enrolled in some special classes that UC Davis in California, uh--uh, offer for viticulture. And UC Davis is probably the first or second best viticulture school in the world. And, uh, I had the opportunity to take a lot of vacation time and--and, um, remote courses that I took for viticulture. And, uh, 00:15:00also, about that time, Kentucky and Ohio was expanding their viticulture, or their wine, or, uh, the number of wineries that they had. For example, in, uh--uh--before prohibition, Kentucky was the fifth largest grape producer in the United States. A lot of it was table grapes. Uh, we lost all that knowledge during Prohibition. And then in 1990, the State legislation--latures passed, uh, regulations that small farm wineries could exist, which are wineries that produce less than fifty thousand gallons a year of, uh, wine. And so in 1990, we had one small farm winery in Kentucky. By 2000, we had ten. And I 00:16:00came on--[audio cuts out]--by then I was number forty-eight. And today we have over eighty bonded wineries in the state of Kentucky, and it's almost doubled in that period of time in Ohio. I think they're pushing almost three hundred small farm wineries. So, there was just more of a awareness of wineries. I also had the fortune on moving or planning on moving into Kentucky, and, uh, the oldest commercial winery in America came up for sale. So, uh, I purchased it, uh, because it was going to be bulldozed to widen the highway. But it was on the National Registry of Historic Places, so I was able to prevent that from happening. And, uh, so then it was a process of I needed to restore the building and have, uh, cash flows to do that, so that I started making wine and working in the local vineyards, uh, for growing grapes. And, uh, so I had 00:17:00that, uh, sort of side business going because, uh, I also worked full-time in the banking industry in investment management. So, it turned out, we named the winery after the founding, uh, or the person who built it in the 1850s. Uh, his name was Abraham Baker, so we named it Baker-Bird. And, uh, it is the largest, oldest wine cellar in America. It's the only winery to have survived the Civil War battle and it is on the National Registry of Historic Places, as well as the vineyard land about seventy of the original acres are on its own National Registry of Historic Places. Uh, once we named it after the family, it got on ancestry.com and the family descendants started coming back bringing 00:18:00us records--[audio cuts out]--was built in the 1850s but the man who built it, Abraham Baker Jr., his grandfather had, uh, been born in Brandenburg, Germany in 1748. At thirteen years old, he came to America on a ship called The Chance. He landed in Philadelphia. He became an indentured servant in Virginia, and, uh, supposedly the family history is that his master taught him how to distill. Uh, he married, uh, the master's daughter, uh, Elizabeth Clor (??), in the Hebron Lutheran Church in Culpeper County, Virginia, which is, uh, one of the oldest continuously-running Lutheran churches in America still today. And, uh, he fought in the--[audio cuts out]--. By 1783, he was on the tax rolls of Pittsburgh, which is Washington County, as a distiller, and pa--[audio cuts 00:19:00out]--so, he had a lot of land by then. We assume he was very successful. Uh, he went through the Whiskey Rebellion and then sold the land and moved to the site where the winery is today. And, um--he moved to Augusta in 1797, and the deed to--to the property where the winery is is 1798. And it turned out the family helped us, but, uh, his, uh, recipes for bourbon had been documented in the, uh, county courthouse for over two hundred years just eight miles away. So, we decide--I decided, Well, it'd be a shame not to, you know, take advantage of that history. So, that--I built a small distillery, found a local distiller, and, uh, was, uh--finished my federal and state license the last day of December of 2018. So--[audio cuts out]--since then and making bourbon and a 00:20:00little bit of brandy.

MONK: That's--a lot of questions right there that I got answered all in one, so thank you so much for that. And where is it located and how did it end up in Augusta?

BIRD: Uh, the winery is located in Augusta, Kentucky, which is on the Ohio River. And, um, it--the winery is actually about a mile from the river, so it's not on the flood plain. Uh, so, and it's located in Augusta. But, uh, in the eighteen, uh--early 1800s, uh, Cincinnati, uh, had a lot of Germans moving to that area because it was, um ,a prominent city and a state in the United States at that time. It wasn't as heavy--heavily populated in--[audio 00:21:00cuts out]--as, uh, the Eastern Seaboard, and it was just a western expansion. So, in 1840 Cincinnati, uh, five percent of their per--population was German and by 1850 fifty percent of Cincinnati's population was German or their first-born American children. So that as, uh, Germans moved into Cincinnati, very similar to, for example, to St. Louis, and, uh, and then, uh, they would move out and spread out into the countryside--many of them were farmers--so that all along the, uh, Ohio River Valley, in the general area of--of Cincinnati there is a lot of Germans. And in our county, there's a lot of German heritage. So, that, uh, it wasn't unusual that John Baker, uh--um, the distiller, moved to 00:22:00Augusta. In fact, a lot of distillers moved to Kentucky after the, uh, Whiskey Rebellion, uh, because they, uh, wanted to escape paying taxes. And Kentucky is very hilly and it was a little bit more sparsely populated, so it was harder to collect, uh, the taxes and people could have stills everywhere. Uh, Kentucky became a state in 1792, and at that time it was estimated there were about five hundred stills already in the state. And by about 1805, 1810, I think, there were over two thousand stills in the state. So, that whiskey was a very common product. Uh, that's one reason why there was a Whiskey Rebellion, because it was such a common product, uh, and to be taxed, uh, was a very unpopular type of tax. So, a lot of those distillers like the Beam Brothers moved to, uh, moved to Kentucky. Now, many of them settled in the flatter part of the 00:23:00state, which is down near Frankfort or, uh, Lawrenceburg, that area, and--because they could grow more corn in a flat space instead of, kind of, the rolling hills that we have up in the upper Bluegrass part of the state, uh, near the Ohio River. So, uh, it wasn't uncommon that the, uh, distillers moved here. Once they got here, it was like the motherload of natural resources in that Kentucky had, um--uh, a lot of oak trees that Kentucky is still the third to fifth largest oak provider, of--hardwood producer in the United States. Uh, Missouri, Minnesota, some of those states lead Kentucky, usually. So, they found a lot of the white oak trees that we use for making barrels and--and for cooperage, for bourbon, and just in general products, and--and today wine. 00:24:00And, uh, they found, uh, filtered water that would filter through the limestone and, uh, remove some of the iron and the types of, uh, chemicals that you don't wan--or elements that you don't want in your whiskey or bourbon. And then, uh, the climate we have is very important in that we have what's called a continental climate, so that there is not any large bodies of water, like the oceans or we're not close enough to the Great Lakes to get a strong enough effect to where--what happens in our climate here is that when it gets hot, it gets hot. When it gets cold, it gets cold. And we don't have the large bodies of water to mitigate that. So, that's what you need for bourbon. And so, they found that. Now, we didn't use the word bourbon until about 1820. I think 00:25:00the first mention of brown spirits being sold that was aged was in Maysville newspaper about 1820. Now, uh, so most people were actually just making whiskey which is you pull it right off the still and--and you drink it so you don't age it. And especially in, uh, those early years of a new country, a new republic, like, uh, the United States, uh, would be--would have been because you need some economic stability before you can put some of your whiskey away and age it. So, obviously we were settling the United States, uh, especially the Midwest in this part in that period of time, so that the distillers typically just made white whiskey, or corn whiskey, moonshine. If you make it during the day, you call it day shine. But, uh, so, that aging wasn't--wasn't so common. But 00:26:00then, again it was--[audio cuts out]--bourbon industry, we, uh, [background ding] give a lot of the Scotch-Irish, uh, credit for the distilling and especially in the central part of the state. But the truth is that in Europe, cognac and many distill--distilled spirits were made and aged. Uh, so, it wasn't like, "Wow, the people in Kentucky came up with this unique idea of let's age whiskey." Uh, scotch, obviously, is--is a distilled spirit that's aged, uh, with a long history, uh, centuries of history behind it. So, that, uh, I think what the Baker-Bird, uh, Distillery illustrates is that it wasn't just Scotch-Irish that, you know, contributed to the distilling in the state. It was also Germans, French, and, uh, other Europeans in particular, that had a history 00:27:00of that. So, I don't think--[audio cuts out]--his 1805 recipe that we have is whiskey, white whiskey, or moonshine, but by 18--[audio cuts out]--barrels. So, again, that's before we called bourbon--bourbon. Uh, he made about seven barrels a year is what the records indicate. And, uh, the techniques have certainly changed a great deal. The stills have changed remarkably during that period of time. But, uh, I think, again, there are a lot of different nationalities or types of people that contributed to distilling. And, uh, the reason that it's located in Augusta, I think our Mr. Baker settle there was because, uh, it was just the Western movement. It was on the river. He was, by then, a little bit older. Uh, he would have been in his, uh, mid-fifties or--or later fifties, so that it would have been just eas--[audio cuts out]--from 00:28:00Pittsburgh area, and relocate instead of going more inland. Uh, and again, in this county, we ha--Bracken County is the county that Augusta, Kentucky is located in, and it has a lot of German heritage. Now, what puts Augusta on the map today is--I'm sorry to say, is not the Baker-Bird Winery or Distillery, hopefully someday. But, uh, Augusta is a charming little village of about fifteen hundred people. Uh, it is--it dates back to the late 1700s. Uh, Mr. John Baker was one of the first, um--bought one of the first lots of the city, and in 1797. Uh, but it has had a ferry, uh, at that particular place running before 1797, and is still running today. Obviously, not the same boat, but 00:29:00it's one of the longest continuously running ferries in America. And we use it, you know, today, cars and trucks and--so, we--we even use it as transportation today across the river. Uh, so, the ferry, no doubt, had some impact. Augusta had a history of, uh, very staunch abolitionists. We had a, uh, Methodist college here, and a lot of the abolitionists that were so, um--um--very strong abolitionists were kind of run out of the seminaries in Cincinnati, so they came to the seminary or the college here in Augusta. And, uh, so, that contributed a lot to the history of the Underground Railroad history, which the distillery or winery, to our knowledge, was not involved in that, uh, but was important. Uh, we did--Augusta did have a Civil War battle, which is unusual in Kentucky. Kentucky stayed as a neutral state--[audio cuts out]--And, um, also, 00:30:00more recent history is that Rosemary Clooney lived here, and George Clooney, her nephew, uh, grew up here in Augusta. And, uh, George's parents still live here actually. Uh, so, besides that, Augusta has been known as--or--or considered the, uh, tenth or eleventh most historic place in the state of Kentucky. So, that, uh, it's because of the history behind it, and it's also been rated by USA Today, uh, newspaper as one of the--as the most picturesque city in--or town in the state of Kentucky. It's on the Ohio River and it's very, very pretty.

MONK: Is it on the Bourbon Trail?

BIRD: Uh, no. The Bourbon Trail, actually, is in more the central part of the 00:31:00state, in Bardstown and Lawrenceburg area, uh, and in that part of the state, Frankfort, in that part of the state, uh, which is more central. So, we're up on the Ohio River. However, the Kentucky Distillers Association has branched out and we do have a bourbon trail that is called the B-Line that is, uh, a series of several distilleries here, uh, in Northern Kentucky. So, it's the b, like the leather--letter b dash line, and the, uh, the winery is actually on the, uh, B-Line as a complimentary service because, uh, I was one of the first to ever submit a label to the federal government for bourbon barrel-aged wine. So, that we do have, uh, again, a bourbon trail that includes the Old 00:32:00Pogue, which is fifteen miles on the Ohio River in Maysville that dates back to about, uh, 1872, I think, all the way up to the New Riff and a couple of more modern distilleries closer to Cincinnati. So, uh, so, we do have the--we do have a bourbon trail but it's not, we'll say, the big bourbon trail that's in the central part of the state.

MONK: So, so getting to know some of the Baker relatives living, do you know any of the connections that Mr. Baker might have had, um, with people in the industry back in his time?

BIRD: Yes. Uh, records from 1800s--I'm sorry, 1700s, uh, show that Mr. Baker would have been a competitor to the Beam Brothers that started Jim 00:33:00Beam here in the state. Uh, obviously, Jim Beam who was, uh--carried on the tradition on in the family, was much more successful than the Baker family in continuing to distill, uh, because that's such a huge distillery today. Uh, but, uh, the--in terms of distilling, again, it was usually white whiskey or moonshine. Almost, uh--well, many, many people made, uh, whiskey. If you stop and think about it, it wasn't until the Civil War that--or about that period of time, that we had many drugs that were available. So, imagine in the late 1700s that Kentucky was a very rural state--we're still a rural state, but a very rural state--and, uh, it was a very hard life. You had to clear forest. 00:34:00Uh, you had to clear boreal forest, which trees was not uncommon to be, uh, you know, many feet wide in terms of the trees to clear. Uh, it was an enormous task. Life was hard on the frontier. And, uh, whiskey was one of the few, uh, so-called drugs that would be available and--and regularly available because so many people made it. Now, that doesn't mean it was very good whiskey. It was probably pretty poor quality, uh, and there was probably a very large range of skill as distillers. But everyone--well, not everyone, but many farmers made whiskey because, uh, if they had a surplus of corn, they could, uh, convert that corn into moonshine and it was more profitable product for them than selling corn by the bushel and it was more portable. So that you could--for the 00:35:00price, you could--[audio cuts out]--a lot more whiskey than you could, uh, they--than corn. So, a lot of farmers made it. And again, uh, on the early frontier, it--it was--it was, kind of, a necessity. I mean, people had arthritis. They had accidents. We, uh, didn't have drugs like chloroform or things like that for surgery. So, um, it was a very common, kind of--it was your medicine chest go-to in general. Hot toddies, I mean even as a child growing up, uh, if we were sick with a cold or something we could have, uh, a little hot toddy, which is hot tea, lemon, uh, and, uh, honey with just a little bit of whiskey, uh, or bourbon added to it. So--so, it was just a medicinal type of product, um, as well as, obviously, it was drunk as an alcohol type of, 00:36:00uh, product too.

MONK: So, now that I've learned a little bit of the family history, um, do they--do you still keep in touch to this day with relatives? Do they come and visit often?

BIRD: Yes. We've had family reunions at the winery. It turns out that, um, Mr. Baker, uh--John Baker that moved there in 1797, it turned out that he had several children, uh, the--uh, and he brought them with him when he came to Augusta. Um, Abraham Baker Senior, uh, we have a copy of his marriage bond from 1799 and he married a local girl, Polly Bowman, and they had several children. And their oldest son was named after the grandfather, John Baker, but 00:37:00--[audio cuts out]--died. Their next son was Abraham Baker Junior, and he's the one that built the winery. And, uh, so, Polly and Abraham Baker Senior had, uh, I think, five or six children. I think a couple of them died. And then, um--uh, they weren't just a very big family. So, it turns out that the Clor family, who, uh, A--who John Baker married into in Virginia, the Clor family has kept records and have had a few people that--in that family that are big genealogists. And the Clor family is actually the family--a part of the family that has stayed in touch the most and helped me most with the records. But having said that, I've had a few of, uh, the, like, great-great-great-great, uh, you 00:38:00know, grandchildren, uh, come to visit, uh, the winery--the descendants, uh, of Abraham--of actually, John Baker. Abraham Baker Junior that built the winery in 1850s, he didn't marry until 1852. So, he was--he and his--he married a local girl, Jane Sharp, and Jane and him never had children, but they raised three of her sister's children. And so, they do come back also to visit occasionally. But the Baker family really wasn't very big. And it's actually been the in-laws of Loves and the Clors who have been most active in the genealogy of the family.

MONK: And are some--and are some of them still in Augusta or--[audio cuts out]--little bit elsewhere?

BIRD: No, none of them live in Augusta. One--one of the Clor types of family, a couple of them live in, uh, Louisville. One lives in, uh, Indiana. And 00:39:00I think one very, very distant somehow-relative lives in Georgetown, Kentucky. So that's about all the relatives I know. Occasionally, I'll get a call from, like, Utah or Seattle or someone saying, "Oh, I think I'm related." Or I had an email from, um, from someone in Maine the other day that was thinking they might be related. But--but it really wasn't a very big family. That was actually--

MONK: Well--[audio cuts out]--now in the middle to help connect some of these, like, histories together with people as well, and they're contacting you to, you know, "Hey, I think I'm in the family." That's pretty cool that you're now in that loop as well.

BIRD: Yes. And they've been very helpful. I mean, people bring back--and even the locals, even though there's no one locally that's been associated with, uh, any family, uh, the locals have been very nice to br--[audio cuts 00:40:00out]--uh, that's related to the--more specifically to the winery. But, uh--and the courthouse, since the--our courthouse was burned--Bracken County's Courthouse was burned during the Civil War, but, uh, there were--the documents were taken out of the courthouse because we--because they knew that the r-- uh, th--uh, Rebels were on their way marching from Lexington to--to--to hit Brooksville and Augusta. And so, they took the records out. So, we're lucky in this county that we have records dating back to the 1700s, uh, all the indentures and the contracts, as well as birth certificates, which came much later, but marriage license and marriage bonds and things like that. We're very lucky, so that's been very helpful. We--uh, Bracken County has a huge historic--or, very strong historic society that has retained those records and 00:41:00taken good care of them. So, we're lucky in that regard.

MONK: That's nice. And I know that you are on the National Registry of Historic Places. What other achievements and awards has the winery received?

BIRD: Uh, the winery has received many. Uh, the wines have received, uh--the wines that we have at the winery, uh, are all made from Kentucky-grown grapes except one. And so, the wines have done very well in international competitions. Um, I have probably about a hundred and fifty different medals from competitions, uh, some of them are internationals. And some the international ones I've had double golds or best red in the class. So that, uh, for six years now, uh, two or three of my wines have taken silver medals consistently every year in the San Francisco Chronicle's Wine Competition, which 00:42:00is the lar--[audio cuts out]--in the world and it's usually between seven thousand to eleven thousand wines each year, uh, maybe judges from thirty-five different countries. So, the wines have done well. And the bourbons that we have launched and the brandy has been taking gold medals in international competitions too, uh, very competitive international competitions. Uh, so, uh, the products that we have are very, uh--have been acknowledged, uh, with international--internationally. Uh, the winery itself has garnered, uh, The Best Winery in Kentucky, uh, according to, uh, the New York International Wine Competition for a few years. Uh, we have been, um--USA Today has noted us as one of the top ten wineries in America for the best tours. Uh, we have been cited by Wine Enthusiast as one of the nine--[audio cuts out]--that is 00:43:00keeping wine history alive. And, uh, we have received, uh, the Ida Wilder, uh, Historic--Heritage, uh, Award from the Heritage Council in Kentucky too. Uh, we are also--the winery was just placed this last year on, uh, the Lewis and Clark Trail, uh, the Ohio River Valley Trail. So, we've had many accolades, uh, mostly for historic preservation of the winery more specifically, but, uh, the distillery is relatively new and it's, kind of, just an extension of history with the winery.

MONK: So, what has been your most honorable mention thus far?

BIRD: Uh, I think surviving and staying in business eleven years. --(laughs)--Business is tricky.--(laugher)--And I have been very fortunate to--to have survived the pandemic. And we also made hand sanitizer during the 00:44:00pandemic, uh, and sell it. But, uh, I think business is very difficult, especially women typically, uh, are more conservative, and so we are more cautious and--and won't take as much risk usually. And that is a determinant in success of companies. Women, uh, typically have only 5 percent of the venture capitalist that's available in--in the United States. So, we--we usually don't get any support from--from, uh, funding. Uh, there's really no funding for, uh, historic preservation, so that women in particular, uh, struggle, uh, usually in companies. Today, I was just reading some of these statistics recently, but, uh, today 40 percent of all small businesses in the United States are owned by women. We contribute about $1.8 trillion to the, uh--uh, GDP of the 00:45:00United States. Uh, we still have a long way to go. We're only about 24 percent, uh, representatives in the House of Representatives and--and only 23 percent represented in the Senate of the United States. Uh, so, that, uh, we have a long way to go. And, uh, that's why I'm really delighted to participate in the study, so hopefully over the years you can look back and say, "Wow, it was a little bit tougher then," so, uh--then it is hopefully in the future to have a comp--uh, uh, uh--to have a company. And the spirits industry, there's not very many, uh, distilleries that are owned, uh, by--completely owned by women, uh, in this state or anywhere. There are a few. Uh, and so, I'm just really glad that we're able to record some information. So, uh, I've been very fortunate to 00:46:00have many accolades, uh, f--for--[audio cuts out]--uh, Kentucky Colonel, uh, and things like that. But again, I think just surviving and staying in business, uh, is probably my best achievement, an--and restoring the building. The, uh, winery in particular would have been destroyed. None of this history would have ever probably come out, so that, um, today we have five or six thousand visitors, and--and, uh, most--the majority of visitors have never been to Augusta before. And research shows that all over the u--all over the world that for every dollar spent in a winery, four dollars is spent in the community for gas, for lodging, for food. So, uh, having that many visitors then, uh, has a multiplier effect and--and helps the local community. I'm--oddly enough, although I employ people part-time, I probably have, uh--I, uh, probably rank in the top 00:47:00ten, uh probably maybe--[audio cuts out]--in this county in terms of the number of people that we hire. And I do hire teenagers, uh, students that are sixteen years old, uh, to help at the winery, so that gives some opportunities that's, uh, not many jobs in this county for that type of--for--for teenagers. So, some of this--[audio cuts out]--economic development of the area.

MONK: And you mentioned the COVID-19 pandemic. So, how was that or how has this past year been for you?

BIRD: Well, this time last year--we're--we're in April--we were, uh, selling hand sanitizer. And, uh, the state passed--Kentucky passed, uh, a very forward-thinking regulation at that time that you could sell by the curbside, uh, distilleries and wineries and cocktails to go. So, uh, we were--we were doing that. And, uh, that helped us through--[audio cuts out]--lay 00:48:00off any of my employees. Again, they're all part-time. Uh, what we did, we built some extra decks, and, uh, we had a lot of painting, uh, and a lot of cleaning that we did, some landscaping, preparing to reopen again an--and have more people outside, uh, although I have very big, airy, kind of, uh, tasting rooms. Uh, so, that worked out very well and we were able to open up again in mid-June. So, from about mid-March to mid-June, the distilleries and wineries were closed and then we could open up to 25 percent capacity. And so, uh, we've been very fortunate because we haven't had much competition. There's no theaters, there's no ballet, or--or not many entertainment venues. So we've had, actually, uh, a lot of guests that have come just to, kind of, have--[audio cuts 00:49:00out]--and visit Augusta, maybe--maybe have a picnic or--or do lunch with the eateries in Augusta. So, that we've been very fortunate during the pandemic, and I didn't have to lay anybody off. So--so, uh, I--uh, but, uh, I'll be glad when it's behind us that's for sure.--(laughs)--

MONK: Definitely. So, could you, um, explain a little bit more about the work environment at Baker and Bird?

BIRD: Yes. We have over the years developed specific positions. Uh, having had these positions, though, the rule of thumb is flexibility. And that we feel at the winery and distillery, that 50 percent of what we sell is just hospitality, uh, that people just want to get out and they want a new adventure, something different. And, uh, so, it's what we would call Southern hospitality, and just being gracious to--[audio cuts out]--. Um, another 25 percent of what 00:50:00we sell is actually, uh, history because was ma--that is what makes our winery and distillery unique is the history and the documentation that we have, uh, for that story. And then finally our products are only 25 percent, the bourbon and the wine, or the bourbon barrel-aged wine or the brandy. So, that, uh, we have developed, uh, positions around hospitality, so we have, uh, younger, uh, high school students that are greeters that will check people in. And especially with COVID, we need to get your contact information, uh, and we need to make sure you have your gloves and your mask. Uh, then, uh, we have people who give tours, and again sometimes they're high school students, uh, that we have three 00:51:00different tours and we're working on a fourth one. So, we have a tour called "A Guided Visit," that shows you how they made wine in the 1850s. Then, we have just a historic tour about the family and the documents we have collected about the winery and the distillery. And then we have a bourbon tour that focuses on the oak trees and the agricultural part of, as well as the history of the distillery. And now, we're working on a culinary, uh, tour that we can pair different types of foods with bourbon and with wine. Uh, so, we have people who do that. And then we have, uh, people who go through the STAR training that actually serve at the bar. And, uh, we have a distiller. I tend to make the wine, uh, or have other people help me with making the wine. So, uh, we have a variety of different people that work at the winery, but the people 00:52:00who serve the wine or the baristas, they can all do tours too and help. So, we just all--it's a small business so it's flexibility what you do there.

MONK: So, how many bottles or--and or barrels would you say you produce annually and what are some of your brands?

BIRD: Uh, yes. Uh, we meet the state regulations in that we produce six barrels of bourbon a year or distilled products a year. Uh, one of those, we produce about a barrel of brandy a year now, uh, so, and the rest is bourbon. Then, we have, um, about four hundred cases of wine that we produce a year. And we produce maybe, like, uh--uh, fifty--a hundred cases of brandy a year. So, we're what you would consider a boutique. So, we're at the opposite end of the continuum as, you know, the very large distilleries, uh, like Jim Beam and 00:53:00Woodford Reserve. In fact, we're probably the smallest or about the smallest, uh, distillery in the state in terms of capacity. In terms of wine, uh, again, we do produce, uh, at least two hundred and sixty gallons of wine a year.

MONK: So, how do you fill your time when you wait for barrels to age?

BIRD: Uh, we--just like many distilleries, we started out, uh, with, uh, you know, with only a two-year bourbon and then we're aging from there. But since I didn't get a license until 2018 the very last of the year, then, uh, that's given us a couple years to start producing and--and aging. So, will--we will have a four-year, uh, old bourbon, an--and older as time goes by. 00:54:00With wine, uh, we--we do age wine for about eighteen months usually, but a lot of our wine is--is, uh, wine made in stainless steel tanks so that, you--it takes a cycle about six months, eight months, nine months.

MONK: So, how have you seen the industry change since you have been in it?

BIRD: Oh, the industry has changed so much. Uh, the wine industry and the bourbon industry has changed so much. Uh, we'll focus on bourbon. Um, bourbon, even when I, uh--since I'm not originally from this state, I didn't move here until about twelve years ago--eleven, twelve years ago. And I would just go to the bourbon tours because, again, I was making wine and in--in the hospitality industry and, uh, you know, they had some tours. The tours were nice, but they have really ratcheted up to--to world-class. Uh, so, just the 00:55:00hospitality component of--of the distilleries have change--changed remarkably. Now, I think this is the thirtieth year of the, uh, bourbon, uh--of the Bourbon Festival, so it's been going on for a while. But, uh, the hospitality component has changed significantly. The, uh, awareness of bourbon has changed significantly because, again, ten years ago, uh, people were just beginning to, kind of, get into the brown spirits. Uh, the bourbon and the brown spirits went through a really dark ages, let's say, in the 1970s--eighties, and it wasn't until 1990s that a few craft distilleries and the bigger [background ding] distilleries started picking up. Um, so, that, uh, much, much more awareness. I mean, uh, younger people, your age, uh, you know --[audio cuts 00:56:00out]--to being twenty-one and can drink are much more knowledgeable about bourbon. My generation, which were the Baby Boomers, were much more familiar with wine, uh, so that--that was our generation was wine. I think your generation, the Millennials, are more the brown spirits, like bourbon or scotch. And bourbon being the only American spirit has a lot of, uh, I think, internal appeal to people. Um, so, uh, the awareness of bourbon has increased significantly. And the profiles of bourbon has changed radically for a few different reasons. One reason is that, uh, when Mr. Baker was making bourbon, or making whiskey, he had to do it all by taste and just from knowledge. And now, we have gauges, uh, that tell us the exact temperature that--[audio 00:57:00cuts out]--off the still. Uh, he didn't have that back then. We have, you know--we measure specific gravity. We have all flame photography. We have all, uh, different things that you can do, uh--flame chromatography. All the different things that you can do to help us better classify bourbons. Uh, we are now--actually, uh, our distillery's participating in a study that the University of Kentucky is doing in Lexington on mapping the white oak genome. So, we're trying to better understand agricultural products. So, with the interest of bourbon, uh, the expansion of, well, let's offer heavier wheated bourbons or heavier, uh, you know, rye bourbons. Or now,[background ding] we're trying to--some people are experimenting with aging bourbons for, you know--instead of just fifteen years maybe twenty or thirty years because you can age 00:58:00Scotch thirty years. You can Brandy actually for fifty years. So, uh, we're experimenting with that. So, there's a lot more experimentation. And the agricultural component has remarkably changed because, uh, back before the 60s, uh--1960s farmers used, uh, corn that was non-GMO. Uh, today, most of our--a lot of the corn is genetically modified, uh, for better production, for less weeds, et cetera, like that. So, that, uh, those flavor profiles are a little bit different. So, we're thinking that probably, uh, the bourbons from the fifties, forties, whatever, are going to have a different profile. Now, that--that's not to say some farms--some distilleries don't still use non-GMO. They do, but far fewer. Uh, you know, most craft distillers, like myself, uh, use whatever source is--is available. And a lot of times, that is GMO types 00:59:00of--of corn. Also, we're having a much better understanding from scientific analysis of the--of the oak and the white oak and, uh, the profiles or what are the, uh, you know--oak from Missouri, oak from Kentucky, oak from Minnesota, Texas, how that affects profiles. Uh, so, it's changed remarkably. One in terms of hospitality. Two is in terms of awareness and an increase in--in, um, people drinking, uh, bourbon. Uh, three is in terms of just the technology that we have today. And four is the agricultural technology that has really affected the industry. Even again, just in the last decade you can see remarkable changes.

MONK: So, what was it like for you to be a woman in the spirits and alcohol 01:00:00tourism industry back in the 2000s to now?

BIRD: Well, the wine industry is just now beginning to say, "Oh, well, we like women,"--(laughs)--and--and setting up scholarships and things like that for women to go into the industry. Typically, there's only about--I think in the United States about 5 percent of--of wine makers that are women. And with bourbon--and with craft distilleries this state has been, uh--specifically with bourbon, has been very pro, uh--we have, I think, three or four distilleries, uh, that are, at least I know of one other one besides myself that is woman-owned. Uh, I'm--I'm a certified, uh, uh, woman-owned business enterprise. So, I'm a sole owner. And, uh, I was used to having just three brothers and no sisters, so I was used to that from a psychological point of view, from a child being the minority. And then, the investment--[audio cuts 01:01:00out]--operated for thirty years as a career is--is--is still male-dominated, there's only about 15 percent women. And so, to me, this is just like, Well, it's just like anything else you do. Uh, so, there's no doubt when you're in a room with all distillers and you're one of the few women in the room, you know, you might notice it. But again, it's, uh--what I like about Kentucky and the bourbon industry much more so than the wine industry is that it's a very tight-knit group, so that we all help each other. Gender is--is not such an issue. I'm sure as a woman I won't have the capital to be as big as some of the distilleries. But, uh, I definitely, certainly, uh, do get a lot of support from the Kentucky Distillers Association and from the industry in general. And again, in our industry--[audio cuts out]--that, you know, you can know some 01:02:00of--world famous distillers and you can be sitting next to them in a meeting. So, it's really a great position to be in. Any woman that would like to pursue a career in--in distilling, I highly recommend it. Uh, it's--if you want that, or would enjoy that, go for it. You're going to have challenges, but you're going to have challenges in any career that you choose. Uh, and I do think women have an advantage in hospitality because of just a gender bias, uh, toward that. We're raised more, I think, to--to be listeners. And I think in terms of actually distilling process, uh, research has shown that women have as good if not better palates than men. So, that I think there is also, uh, many different facets that women can actually succeed in. And if you look at some of 01:03:00the larger distillers--distilleries like Woodford, uh, they have, uh, you know--the, uh, associate, uh, distiller is--is a woman. And several of the larger distilleries have women that participate in all levels of the company.

MONK: So, do you see, maybe, a future of it being--[audio cuts out]--of fifty-fifty between men and women owners? Or--

BIRD: I kind of doubt that because, uh, again, as the statistics that I just quoted earlier, 40 percent of small businesses are women. But women typically, uh--in 1980 there was no, uh, woman, uh, that was a CEO of a Fortune 500 company in the United States, today 10 percent. So, we're talking about, you know, thirty, forty years later. So, just due to--[audio cuts out]--capital and 01:04:00that women have access to, due to, uh, the fact that we're not as big of risk takers, uh, usually, then I think it will be a long time before we see 50 percent of distilleries owned by women. Now, uh, today, 50 percent of law students and 50 percent of medical students graduating are women. But a very small minority, are, again, at leadership positions in those industries. So, I think we'll see more women coming into the industries and gradually, decades, hopefully. Now having said that, uh, research shows that in the 1600s, uh, that the majority of--of the, uh, brewers were women, uh, so that was more of a home type of, uh, cottage product. And so, I think if--[audio cuts 01:05:00out]--maybe some distinctive advantages. But, uh, just due to some other factors, uh, and societal factors, I don't see that we'll be fifty-fifty women distillers or own distilleries or even be distillers, uh, in--within many, many decades. I hope I'm wrong.

MONK: So, you kind of answered this question, --[audio cuts out]--audience of bourbon to and from women, from a market perspective?

BIRD: Uh, yes. The women I have found that are interested in bourbon are very much interested, where guys it's like, uh--I was talking to my, uh--uh, physician recently, uh, and he said--I said, "Well, do you like bourbon?" He goes, "Well, I drink it on a social level. It's like if I'm with everybody and they're drinking bourbon, sure I'll drink bourbon." But the women 01:06:00who like bourbon--again, I think this is due to the fact that women typically have better palates, uh, that--or can have better palates then, uh--or as good of palates, anyway, then, uh, I think the women bourbon--being a member of the Bourbon Women's Association, those women like bourbon. So--so, there are--there is that part of the population. From a standpoint of marketing, uh, I certainly welcome all those women and that's why I'm a member of the Bourbon Women's Association. Uh, but I would not be able to survive just serving, uh, bourbon to women, so to speak. Now, I can have a preference for them, but, uh, but, you know, only about forty--most bourbon sales, [phone rings in background] 60 percent is men and, uh, who buy bourbon, the consumer, and 40 percent are women. A lot of times, women were buying it for--[audio cuts out]--. So, 01:07:00from a marketing standpoint, I'm going to market broadly to everybody, and I certainly appreciate my sisters that are interested in bourbon, though.

MONK: So, when did--[audio cuts out]--leadership roles within the industry and has that been important?

BIRD: Sure. It's always important, those first, uh, first leaders to be role models for us to make us believe it's true. Again, uh, I'm--being a Baby Boomer, I've seen a lot of things happen in gender in the workplace. Uh, I've actually done research work on--and published it on a, um, academic level on gender in the workplace, or gender spillover is what I'd say in the workplace. But definitely. And today, we have many women in the industry, uh, some of them 01:08:00are not so--[audio cuts out]--as being maybe the head distiller, or--or the, uh--but we definitely have some very talented women in the industry. And, uh, so, that's great to see. And, uh, it's great to try to support each other for that. I'm thinking for example, Hannah Lowman that's at New Riff, is, uh, operations manager there. [background ding] Uh, I'm thinking about Woodford Reserve. Uh, so, several different--several different--many different distilleries have women that are becoming in leadership positions.

MONK: So, being, um, a part of the women in bourbon, so you've made a lot of connections through that. But before that, um, what other connections, like--how were you able to get to know other women in the industry?

BIRD: Uh, well, in the wine industry, it's been happening for about four years. 01:09:00--[audio cuts out]--awareness of it, and there are actually national conferences. Uh, and the bourbon industry, it's, uh, you know, just beginning to, kind of, get there. And again, I think it's due to, um--I want to give credit to the Kentucky Distillers Association and their leadership. And, um, it was--for example, I don't think there was any qualm at all that I was a woman-owned distillery and we'd be considered as a membership there. Uh, so, um, I think we're just now beginning to realize that it is a changing--and in the past, bourbon was based very heavily on tradition because we didn't have that equipment and we didn't have the technology. So--so, if you had a master distiller, then it sometimes got even passed down to the next generation as a master distiller because it was, you know, as a--yeast was a family, uh--the yeast we use was--[audio cuts out]--. So, uh, so, that it was 01:10:00based on tradition. But now that we have, you know, a lot of technology, women can learn that technology just as easy as men can. And so, uh--um, I think that will make a big difference too. It's becoming a less traditional type of, uh, industry.

MONK: So, how do you like to incorporate a diverse, um, community around your, uh, establishment at Baker-Bird?

BIRD: Well, I believe in diversity in the workplace, uh, tremendously. It's very important. So, I hire--I don't care if you're a Martian. If you have the skill level or the potential, I'll hire you. Uh, and so, uh, we have, uh, you know--I tend to have more women because it is a hospitality industry--[audio 01:11:00cuts out]--to that. But I'm proactive in hiring, uh, uh, men, too. So, whoever I can get to fill the spots, is, uh--your gender doesn't matter, your race doesn't matter to me, your--your sexual bias doesn't matter to me. I don't care. If you can do the job, then you're hired. So--so, I try to be proactive, but I am in a very rural community. And, uh, so, my job, um--my employment pool is somewhat limited. But no, diversity in workplace, whatever type of diversity, research shows over and over again in corporations that diversity is--is a very, uh, good, uh, harbinger of success of a company. So, you don't all think alike. You see different points of view.

MONK: Exactly. So, --[audio cuts out]--bounce over again and, um, just ask you a 01:12:00more personal question here. What is your favorite wine?

BIRD: Um, I have a question asked a lot, actually. And it depends on the situation--(clears throat)--and maybe the food or if you're not eating food.--(clears throat)--I think my favorite wine is actually a sweeter wine. It's a rosé that sitting on the back porch overlooking the Ohio River and sitting in the rocking chair with a--a wine I have called Ruby Hawk Rosé with strawberry shortcake and my best friend--it's not going to get better than that on a beautiful, sunny day. Uh, but in the winter when it's cold and by the fireside, uh, I like drinking, uh, my bourbon barrel-aged wine with maybe a heavy stew, uh, and enjoying company there. In terms of distilling, uh, the brandy. I really do like the brandy a lot that we make. I understand 01:13:00now--[audio cuts out]--it's made in warmer climate--colder climates like--(clears throat)--pardon me--Northern France and Germany because it seems to be much more warming than bourbon. And my favorite bourbon is Kentucky, uh, Statehood, which is my flagship bourbon. Uh, it's a very smooth bourbon. It's a touch of rye in it. And again, it's based on Mr. John Baker's recipe from 1808 and, uh, is, I think, very nice, uh, sipping bourbon.

MONK: So, is it situational for you to decide if you're more of a wine drinker or a bourbon drinker? Which is your preference?

BIRD: Uh, well, I probably gravitate to bourbon more in the winter, personally,--(clears throat)--and more wine in the summer. But I'm kind of unique. Like I said, most people have a preference for it, well, I'm a bourbon person. But it's just due to my background that I had the wine. And 01:14:00again, my generation was probably a little bit more--our--our alcoholic drink of choice was usually wine. So, it just has to do with my background. Uh, but I think most people would say, most women that are in this industry say, "Oh, no. Bourbon definitely." And bourbon's a much more complex product to create too, so I appreciate it much more from that point of view.

MONK: Do you plan to incorporate more bourbon at the winery at any point?

BIRD: Yes, uh, you know, again, a new distillery, it's not uncommon that you grow over time with products. And hopefully the markets will grow that--that my products are distributed in, and so yes. Um,--(clears throat)--since Mr. Baker was a patriot, he fought in the American Revolution, we name our bourbons, uh, and products after, uh, sort of, more of a patriotic view. So the first, our whiskey that comes right off the still is called American Revolution. 01:15:00--[audio cuts out]--you're not going to age anything. You're going to just pull it off the still and drink it as fast as you can probably. Uh, our first bourbon was a Kentucky Statehood. And we will have a bourbon for the Battle of Augustus, since the little town I mentioned did survive a, uh--and actually, the winery structure was involved in that battle. Uh, so, we'll have a, uh, bourbon for that. Uh, and then, I would like to make a bourbon called Prohibition and--and a bourbon called Freedom. So, we'll see what kind of profiles we come up with. So, definitely we will be expanding our line of bourbon.

MONK: Awesome. So, what makes you different than Woodford Reserve or Four Roses?

BIRD: Uh, I think the historic, uh, uh, component is, you know--our recipes are based going back over two hundred years. Woodford Reserve has a rich 01:16:00history--um, Jim Beam, all of us have, I think, a rich history. It's just each one of us, how that history came to play out. And, uh, obviously, the bigger distilleries have a lot more, uh, have been through Prohibition, they've seen a lot more, and survived during those periods of time. So, you know, I'm just a very nascent company, just very small, very new, more entrepreneurial. And so, uh, but I think the history, uh, that we have is unique. Uh, there's not many whiskey, uh, uh, places that we can--can pinpoint where it was actually made, and we can with this--with my products because we have the deeds from 17--[audio cuts out]--of that property. So, a lot of the distillers would've been along the riverbanks of the Ohio. And due to, um, civil engineering those--the 01:17:00river has increased because, uh, it has risen because of dams, so those original sites are probably gone. Uh, so, it's probably just a unique type of history. And bourbon really didn't take off until the Civil War. It was a Civil War and--and the war itself and bourbon being used as a--medicinally as well as, uh--I think, uh, uh, medicinally in terms of depression, probably, being in a civil war. Uh, that--and we had the railroads to get it out of Kentucky. And then, bourbon played a huge role in Prohibition and bootlegging. Uh, and Kentucky was huge in that--played a huge role because we had such quality, um, uh, spirits coming out of here. So, uh, you know, bourbon has a really very recent history compared to scotch or cognac, so I think we have a lot of growth to do along the way. And--and just like any new or--[audio cuts 01:18:00out]--there's going to be a lot of different players that come in that offer, again, new techniques, new types of profiles along the way.

MONK: So, since you are a master distiller yourself, what is your favorite winery and distillery that you've been to and which is your favorite visit, or favorites?

BIRD: --(clears throat)--Well, I like to take a whole day and visit lots of them because, uh--and wine as well as bourbon because we're all different. So, uh, I like to take friends that to-- Some of my favorite ones would be the Old Pogue, Castle & Key, Woodford, uh, Wild Turkey. I really don't have exactly a favorite distillery. And the same would probably be true for wineries. Uh, on the occasions I get to go to upstate New York to the wine country, or Long Island--[audio cuts out]--uh, Napa, Sonoma. So usually, I like to see as many, 01:19:00uh, and taste as many different experiences I can once I'm in a specific region. So--so, I really don't have a favorite. I guess my favorite is to see as many as I can.

MONK: I'll add them all to the bucket list.--(laughs)--

BIRD: Yes.

MONK: So, what wine do you recommend as someone who might be new to tasting?

BIRD: Uh, probably--we're a nation of Coca-Cola drinkers and, uh, so, we grew up on sweet drink--sweet drinking products. And, uh, so, I usually, uh, it's not my recommendation per se, but it's just natural that you normally start gravitating to the sweet wines. Uh,--(clears throat)--then--then, uh, I see it 01:20:00all the time in my staff you, kind of--with wine, you gravitate to the dryer wines. Now bourbon, I think, is more of a acquired taste. And I think, again, uh, younger generations like the Millennials versus my generation are more experimental, and they acquire a taste for spirits, uh, a lot faster than my generation did. So, that, uh, with bourbon and even with wine, I think the number one, uh--or--or a couple of rules of thumbs I like to live by is that one, try everything. You know, even if it sounds kind of funky, try it, uh, because, you know, you're training your palate to know what is good bourbon, what is not so good, or good wine or bad wine because there is bad wine out there and bad bourbon out there. But you're training your palate. And two, my second rule of thumb besides explore everything, is two, drink what you 01:21:00like. Uh, and again, I think some of the spirits as well as wine can be very seasonal. So, drink whatever appeals to you at that time. And third, be responsible when you're drinking. Again, having worked in hospital emergency rooms, I've seen some really bad car accidents from people that were intoxicated. So, I do want to say maybe--not maybe, but for sure is drink responsibly.

MONK: Always. Have you made any trips ever to the Talon Winery here in Lexington?

BIRD: Uh, y--I'm sorry, can you repeat that, Maya? I'm sorry, I didn't catch that. Which distillery?

MONK: Yeah. The Talon Winery.

BIRD: Oh, yes. Yes, yes, uh, yes. I have. We'er--we have a professional connection with them. Yes, yes. That's a big one--[audio cuts out]--in Lexington, yes.

MONK: Yes. I've been--[audio cuts out]--Do you hold celebrations like that at Baker-Bird?

BIRD: Yes, --[audio cuts out]--weddings. We have a cellar that, again, the oldest, largest wine cellar that makes for a very unique venue. Uh, so, yes, Talon is a very beautiful, uh, vineyard and winery. And Will Mullett, the winemaker there, is really nice. And Jill, the hospitality, and, uh, John that worked there, yes. And Harriet, who started it, yeah it is a--it's a--it's a--a world-class winery. And--[audio cuts out]--

MONK: I had a feeling--I had a feeling you might have a connection there.

BIRD: Yeah, yeah. It's a very good--it's a very--and it's relatively old here in Kentucky too, very well established.

MONK: So, what advice would you give to students trying to enter the industry?

BIRD: Uh, go out and be proactive. Uh, you know, the old Ni--or the Nike, uh, tagline, "Do it." You know, uh, just, if you're interested--[audio 01:23:00cuts out]--call up a distillery and just say, "I'm a intern--I'm a college intern and I'd like to--to find out who the HR person is." And call the HR, email HR, and, you know, expect rejection. But I think now, University of Kentucky has a very good internship program or has implemented, uh, you know, a program for it--for producing future distillers and things like that. So, uh, so, so, just if you're interested in it, pursue it. Uh, like, I took those college classes in viticulture for years before I ever actually opened it. And, uh, you know, see if you like it. You might not like it. Like my first career, I really loved it, but I moved on to something different.

MONK: So where do--[audio cuts out]--industry in about five, ten years?

BIRD: That has a lot to do with the tariffs. Um, you know, Kentucky was on 01:24:00the--[audio cuts out]--on the, uh, verge of trying to--to displace some of scotch. Because if you're outside the United States or even in the United States, uh, you know, you go to a bar and you think, Well, what am I going to order? And you're not a--you're not a wine drinker, you're a spirits drinker, you say, "Oh, give me a scotch." Scotch and water, or something. And so, our goal was with, I think, Kentucky, was to try to--at least in Europe--to displace a little bit of sales of gin and--and, uh, scotch. But then the tariffs hit and that's really hurt our industry significantly. So, I'm hoping we get this tariff thing under control. Uh, Japan is a huge, uh, uh, imbiber of, uh, bourbon. So, it is possible to--to have a very strong presence. Uh, what I see happening in the industry, I hope we get over the tariff hump and we can become 01:25:00more--more, uh, uh, well-known in the world. Although if you were to go to Germany and you say, "I'm from Kentucky," they'll say, "Bourbon and horses." So, we do have some of that, uh, brand awareness.--(clears throat)--What right now is happening in the United Sates is, uh, bourbon is the only American spirit. Um, so, that we have a lot of other states that are beginning to make bourbon. And for example, Texas, uh, is coming on pretty strong there. But I think Kentucky bourbon is unique in that, uh, you know, in theory, we make 95 percent of the world's bourbon now in Kentucky. To put that in perspective as big as California is, California only makes 15 percent of the world's wine. So, so, think about if California was 95 percent of the wor--world's wine. So, bourbon we have a very dominance in in Kentucky. But places like Texas, uh, 01:26:00which is coming on strong, the bourbons will be different because, again, uh, even if you use the same barrels, you use the same formula, the climate is different in Texas. And having grown up there, it's a lot more humid, especially in the southern part. We don't have the--the, uh, the extreme cold or the extreme heat you get like you do in Kentucky. So, that their bourbons are a little bit different in their profiles. So, I hope that we maintain in Kentucky, being here, a--a distillery in Kentucky, that we maintain that Kentucky dominance with bourbon, at least.--(clears throat)--

MONK: So, what are some of your--[audio cuts out]--and aspirations, um, that you wish to become a reality with the next generation that will be entering the industry?

BIRD: I think that, again, we hope that diversity in the industry, 01:27:00uh, continues to expand, and, uh, that we become a responsible in terms of drinking. And I think, uh, market demands will take care of the rest. There's a demand there, there will be distillers that meet that demand. So, I hope that we continue to grow the Kentucky bourbon brand awareness and that it will, uh, continue to be a very strong, uh, industry in our state, uh, as well as, uh, world awareness of it.

MONK: So, now that we're coming to the end here, I'd like to ask you, what is something that you've learned now that you wish you knew when you had started out in the industry?

BIRD: --(laughs)--Okay. If I knew what I was getting into, I would have never bought a winery.--(laughs)--I would have never gone into the distilling business. --[audio cuts out]--in many ways, but anyone that's going 01:28:00to start a distillery or even a winery I say, "You just have no idea." I think it's the same analogy as raising children. Everyone tells you, "Well, when you have your first child, the world's really going to change a lot. Your priorities will change. Uh, and it's a life-changing experience." And the same is true for any business owner. It's not just distillery or wineries. But I do see people that say, "Oh, this looks really great. I can do this." It's like, well, you know, that's why 95 percent of most companies never make it more than five years is because they're just so under--, uh,--capitalized. So, uh, it's a great industry. Hospitality is a great industry, although we've seen with COVID that, uh, you know, economically it can fall off the table. But all industries are challenging. And if you want to go into the business, great. I encourage that. Um, --[audio cuts out]--I knew what I knew now, I would have 01:29:00just probably taken my cash flows and put it in the stock market. I'd be a lot wealthier in some ways. In terms of experience, it has been a very wealthy experience. I've learned a lot. It's been very interesting, sometimes stressful, uh, sometimes a lot of fun. Uh, so, I'm proud at this point in time to be able to say that I have a winery and a distillery. Uh, so, and I encourage everyone to come out and visit all your wineries and distilleries, and, uh, again, have a great time but drink responsibly.

MONK: Well, is there anything else that you would like to add to the official record here?

BIRD: Well, I'd like to say, thank you, uh, Maya, for your time and your preparation. I thought you did an excellent job having taken an oral history class myself in college and graduate school. So, thank you. I appreciate being invited, and I'm so glad that the University of Kentucky is 01:30:00doing these oral histories because they can be very rich in information and give us a lot, uh, into the future. So, I really appreciate that, and, uh, I hope our industry will continue to grow. And, uh, I wish you the best of luck in--in your graduating, a senior this year, and your endeavors. And again, I just want to thank you for being able to participate in this particular program.

MONK: Well, thank you so much Dinah. And it's been a pleasure to meet you and get to know more about your life and your history and your successes with Baker-Bird. I hope that one day I can come by for a tasting and get the whole experience. So, again, thank you so much for your time, and I hope to talk to you soon.

BIRD: I'll look forward to it, Maya. Thank you. And you have a good day now. Bye-bye.

MONK: You too.

[End of interview.]