Interview with Charles "Chuck" Miley, July 27, 2021

Partial Transcript: Well hello. And today is July 27th, 2021.

Segment Synopsis: Miley grew up in Ohio, attended Kent State University, and taught art in Cuyahoga County. He then moved to New Jersey where he taught art and now continues to create art, books, and prints.

Keywords: Art; Books; Cuyahoga County, Ohio; Kent State University; New Jersey; Ohio; Prints

Subjects: Careers.; Childhood; Cuyahoga County (Ohio); Occupations.; Professions.; Vocation.; Work.

Partial Transcript: So if we could, please, go back in time to 1967 when you started, uh, for your Peace Corps service...

Segment Synopsis: In 1967, Miley was teaching elementary school art. It was during the Vietnam War and, as a teacher, he had a draft deferment. After acceptance into Peace Corps, he was initially offered a placement in the Philippines and then was offered work in Malaysia. His FBI background check was both "funny and harrowing." His pre-service training was held outside of Hilo, Hawaii.

Keywords: Draft deferment; Elementary school art; FBI background checks; Hilo (Hawaii); Vietnam War

Subjects: East Malaysia; Malaysia; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--East Malaysia; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Malaysia; Teachers; Teaching; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: There were actually three groups at the time: elementary teachers--uh, uh, I'm trying to think, oh, um--some that were working in government, and then my group which were new primary syllabus advisors.

Segment Synopsis: In his cohort were three groups: elementary education, government workers, and primary syllabus advisors, which was Miley's role. In Sarawak, Malaysia, English language was used for education and government. His job was to visit K-6 schools to assist teachers in implementing the syllabus which was Nigerian; a British curriculum to teach English as a foreign language. He lived in Saratok and taught teachers during school vacations on using the curriculum and making low-budget teaching aids. Miley was proud of making a model of an eye using a coconut shell and other materials locally found to illustrate the functioning of eyes.

Keywords: Functioning of eyes; K-6 schools; Low-budget teaching aids; Primary syllabus advisors; Saratok (Malaysia); Sarawak (Malaysia); Teaching in Saratok

Subjects: East Malaysia; Language and languages; Malaysia; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--East Malaysia; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Malaysia; Teachers; Teaching; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: Backing up though. Of course now in retrospect it, it all--you know, you've covered quite a bit of ground...

Segment Synopsis: Miley's family was blue-collar, so job security was important to his parents. Miley had been "infatuated" with Southeast Asia and his friends agreed that going there was better than "Army boot camp." His young students equated his departure to Malaysia as going to Vietnam. After service, Miley gave a slide presentation to the students and teachers at his former school.

Keywords: "Infatuated" with Southeast Asia; Blue-collar family; Reactions to his departure from family and friends; Vietnam War

Subjects: East Malaysia; Families.; Malaysia; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--East Malaysia; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Malaysia; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: Because in, in, uh, in visiting the teachers on site at their schools, there was only one road in Saratok--I mean Sarawak.

Segment Synopsis: When visiting schools in Sarawak, Miley would ride a bus which would drop him off at a milepost where he was met by someone from the appropriate school. The longest walk to a school took 6-8 hours through the jungle. He was expected to make the trip alone the next time, and his experience as a young man in the woods of Ohio stood him in good stead.

Keywords: 6-8 hour walk in the jungle; Getting to schools; Sarawak (Malaysia); Transportation; Walking

Subjects: East Malaysia; Malaysia; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--East Malaysia; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Malaysia; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: Yeah, now, uh, in, in terms of getting ready for the, the work though, certainly you had the educational background.

Segment Synopsis: Although English was the official language spoken in Malaysia, there were multiple languages used, including Malay. He lived in the Iban area near Kuching, the capital of Sarawak. Because the area was multi-cultural, it was, then, multilingual, too, so he learned words to help him shop in stores, eat in restaurants, and speak to people in various schools. What was spoken in Saratok was not what he had learned in training. Most people wanted to practice their English with him, however. Miley's "one skill" was the ability to walk through the jungle and its many roots. When walking there in a group, Miley set the pace at the head of the line, so that the others wouldn't leave him behind.

Keywords: Dialects; Igan (Malaysia); Kuching (Malaysia); Multiple languages; Saratok (Malaysia); Sarawak (Malaysia); Special skills; Walking in the jungle

Subjects: East Malaysia; Intercultural communication; Language and languages; Lifestyles; Malaysia; Manners and customs; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--East Malaysia; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Malaysia; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: Were you with--Chuck, were you there with other Volunteers in your town and doing the same type of work?

Segment Synopsis: Miley lived with other Peace Corps Volunteers who worked in other schools close by. In his village, a Volunteer worked with water catchment projects.

Keywords: Indonesia; Interactions with other volunteers; Schools; Water catchment projects

Subjects: East Malaysia; Interpersonal relations; Malaysia; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--East Malaysia; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Malaysia; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: Brunei, Sabah, and Sarawak are the three states, uh, on the, uh, north coast of Borneo.

Segment Synopsis: South of Sarawak is Indonesia where there had been a communist insurrection who sometimes intimidated Malaysians. If Malaysians didn't cooperate with their demands, they would cut the pepper vines which took years to replace.

Keywords: Communist insurrections; Indonesia; Intimidation; Pepper vines

Subjects: Culture; East Malaysia; Intercultural communication; Lifestyles; Malaysia; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--East Malaysia; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Malaysia; Voluntarism; Volunteers; World politics

Partial Transcript: Alright, so, uh, stepping back again. Uh, so I'm thinking you--certainly you were not, you know, stationed alone in a village...

Segment Synopsis: Miley says that the Peace Corps staff in Sarawak were "angels." There was a married couple who entertained Volunteers when they came into the city. The assistant director and his wife were responsive to his need for help. When the team came into town, Miley took them to his favorite Chinese restaurant, and, invariably, the assistant director would pay for the meal. The restaurant staff knew that these people were special, so he'd give them an 8-10 course meal. The country directors were very supportive and aware of Volunteers' needs.

Keywords: Awareness; Chinese dinners; Peace Corps directors; Peace Corps staff; Responsive to needs; Supportive

Subjects: East Malaysia; Interpersonal relations; Malaysia; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--East Malaysia; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Malaysia; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: Yeah. How about, uh, interactions with the, uh--you know, you talked about of course what--your work involved interacting with so many different teachers...

Segment Synopsis: Miley was stationed at the equivalent of the city hall where he worked with the school affairs officer whom Miley encouraged to accompany him when he visited the schools. Miley lived close to him and they became good friends. The officer leaned on Miley to learn new ideas and skills. The teachers were pleased to see the official visit schools on his own, which he hadn't done before Miley arrived.

Keywords: Friendships; Relationship with an administrative official; Relationships; School affairs officers; Teachers

Subjects: East Malaysia; Interpersonal relations; Malaysia; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--East Malaysia; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Malaysia; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: But the, the, uh, city planner, as I said, was part of my education.

Segment Synopsis: The city planner asked Miley if he were in mourning because Miley wore white pants that were frayed, and, in the Chinese culture, that indicates a death. Miley thanked the man for telling him, and this was a major insight for Miley: Americans are judgmental when others offend us, whereas in Malaysia, someone will take you aside to tell you as opposed to confronting you. A second faux-pas involved getting some teachers into teacher-training programs to improve their skills. Miley contacted the Minister of Education, advocating for these teachers. Miley was called into Kuching by the Peace Corps director about this letter that made the Minister feel that he had lost face. To remedy the situation, Miley apologized to the Minister of Education. After leaving his service, Miley found out that the teachers for whom he advocated were accepted into the teacher-training college.

Keywords: Advocating for teachers; Apology; Cultural faux-pas; Frayed jeans; Judging others; Kuching (Malaysia); Letter written; Minister of Education; Mourning; Non-confrontational; Teacher-training colleges

Subjects: Communication and culture; Culture; East Malaysia; Intercultural communication; Interpersonal communication and culture; Interpersonal relations; Interpersonal relations and culture; Lifestyles; Malaysia; Manners and customs; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--East Malaysia; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Malaysia; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: This is taking a little bit of a shift.

Segment Synopsis: Miley's vacations fall into 2 categories. During school vacations, Miley traveled within Malaysia, as per Peace Corps rules. He went to the capital city, Kuala Lumpur, where he was stunned by a mosque there. He also saw that there was conflict among the racial and religious groups, as there is in the U.S. During other vacations, he visited Jakarta, Indonesia where he was overwhelmed by the population and poverty. He traveled the length of Java, and went Bali. With other volunteers, he went to Panang, an island off of northern Malaya, through Thailand to Chiang-Mai over Christmas. Other patrons in a restaurant were U.S. military personnel talking about their bombing missions into Laos. Miley loved Singapore, too.

Keywords: Bali (Indonesia); Chiang Mai (Thailand); Jakarta (Indonesia); Java (Indonesia); Kuala Lumpur (Malaysia); Mosques; Peace Corps vacations; School vacations; Singapore

Subjects: Culture; Culture shock; East Malaysia; International travel; Lifestyles; Malaysia; Manners and customs; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--East Malaysia; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Malaysia; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: Uh, the other thing on vacations is something that we did. Two in particular that stand out.

Segment Synopsis: On one Thanksgiving, Miley and other volunteers invited other volunteers to dinner. They ordered a turkey from Singapore and he cooked it over a make-shift metal oven. For one Fourth of July, he and other volunteers treated in-country people to a party: hamburgers and beer with fire crackers. Some Malaysians went caroling on Christmas Eve, with people providing snacks in return, due to the British influence on the country. The songs were sung with accents and the rhythms were off a bit. The second Christmas, Miley invited council members and friends to his house to celebrate. During Chinese New Year, he was delighted to attend a banquet with 20 courses, with an alcoholic beverage. Miley was also invited to "coming of age" ceremonies for young men and women. When he invited Malays to his house, he couldn't serve pork, so he ordered food from a Malay restaurant.

Keywords: Celebrations; Chinese New Year; Christmas carols; Coming of age ceremonies; Holidays; Singapore; Thanksgiving turkey

Subjects: Culture; East Malaysia; Food habits; Interpersonal relations; Lifestyles; Malaysia; Manners and customs; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--East Malaysia; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Malaysia; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: We're kind of coming to the point of, of our conversation around what happened after Peace Corps.

Segment Synopsis: Miley became aware of the assassinations of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and Bobby Kennedy while he was in Malaysia. One thing that he learned about during his service was entitlement. There was an honorific term used for respected white men and women. He was deferred to in Malaysia, which bothered him. He and his fellow volunteers discussed their responsibility regarding political issues upon their return to the U.S. He decided to look for work in an inner-city school or racially mixed school in the suburbs; he worked in such a school in New Jersey. He's very proud to have worked at Franklin Township High School.

Keywords: Deference; Entitlement; Franklin Township High School; New Jersey; Responsibility; Underprivileged; White privilege

Subjects: East Malaysia; Intercultural communication; Interpersonal relations; Malaysia; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--East Malaysia; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Malaysia; Race discrimination; Race relations; Teachers; Teaching; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: And, um, many volunteers make it a point of keeping in touch with other volunteers and--

Segment Synopsis: Miley hasn't been involved with other volunteers except for several local volunteers in New Jersey. His energies center on the arts. He'd like to reconnect with some people.

Keywords: Arts; Local volunteers; New Jersey; Returned Peace Corps Volunteers

Subjects: East Malaysia; Interpersonal relations; Malaysia; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--East Malaysia; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Malaysia; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: There are two other things I'd like to interject--

Segment Synopsis: Miley says he changed himself more than he changed the world. For Miley, there were two dramatic situations during service. While at a school at the sea, a child had a bandaged arm and Miley got the boy to a dispensary to treat this serious injury. In order to get there, they had to cross a tidal river filled with mud. He traversed the river by walking on a log wearing flip-flops, carrying the boy on his back. He saved the boy's arm in taking him there. The boy's father said that it was alright for the boy to be treated because Miley, a white man, took his son to the dispensary, which Miley says was another example of white entitlement. When Miley was leaving the town, the kids from the school gave Miley a box filled with gorgeous seashells as a gift.

Keywords: Bandaged arm; Box of seashells; Children; Crossing a river on a log; Crossing a tidal river; Dangerous; Dramatic stories; Gifts; Medical dispensaries; Mud; Personal changes; Transportation; White entitlement; White privilege

Subjects: East Malaysia; Malaysia; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--East Malaysia; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Malaysia; Voluntarism; Volunteers

Partial Transcript: So that was one of the traumatic things. The other one was once again down at the seashore...

Segment Synopsis: The second dramatic situation involved Miley taking his replacement volunteer to a school that involved crossing another tidal river. He checked the tides; a school official told him how to avoid getting pulled into the mud. As they approached the river, Miley could see that the river was coming in. Suddenly, they were up to their calves and were sinking in the mud. He referred to old jungle movies he'd seen on TV. So, they took off their backpacks filled with canned foods, slung them out in front of them, keeping a hold on a strap, and pulled themselves along out of the mud.

Keywords: Crossing a river; Crossing a tidal river; Dangerous; Dramatic stories; Jungle movies; Mud

Subjects: East Malaysia; Malaysia; Peace Corps (U.S.); Peace Corps (U.S.)--East Malaysia; Peace Corps (U.S.)--Malaysia; Voluntarism; Volunteers