Interview with Rose Marie Johnson, May 19, 1991

Partial Transcript: --we talking about Midway?

Segment Synopsis: Johnson mentions an area that used to be a picnic spot, as well as areas with a former general store and a former grocery store. They talk about someone who had an undertaker's establishment. They mention people who played guitar, piano, and saxophone in Smoke Richardson's band. They discuss Saturdays as a day of recreation and leisure. They watched the trains go by, specifically mentioning the derby trains as a special occasion.

Keywords: African American businesses; African American musicians; African American owned businesses; African Americans; Black businesses; Black musicians; Black owned businesses; Black people; Celebrations; Dances; Dancing; Grocery stores; Ice cream; Morticians; Picnic areas; Trains; Undertakers; Undertaking

Subjects: African American history; Bands (Music); Funeral homes; General stores; Grocery trade.; Guitar.; Hobbies; Income.; Kentucky Derby.; Kentucky--History.; Leisure.; Midway (Ky.); Occupations; Passenger trains.; Piano.; Picnics.; Railroad trains.; Recreation.; Saxophone; Saxophonists.; Stores, Retail.; Undertakers and undertaking; Wages.

Partial Transcript: Sis, do you remember--excuse me now I'm cutting in--do you remember when the war was over and the train came up that night...

Segment Synopsis: Johnson mentions when World War II was over and everyone got off the trains and celebrated. They talk about bringing specific items in as first aid kits. They also mention saving war stamps. They used leftover fat to make soap. They talk about a man from Midway who was killed in Europe during a war. When the men came back from war, they went out of town to work (Lexington and Avon are specifically mentioned) and made more money than what they made before the war. Most people had gardens and canned produce supplies.

Keywords: African American community; African Americans; Black community; Black people; Canning; Celebrations; Changes; Chickens; Distilleries; Farm labor; Farm laborers; Farm work; Farm workers; Farming; Farms; Fireside Chats; Gardens; Great Depression; Hogs; Homecomings; Outhouses; Personal growth; Radio; Rationing; Returning from war; Rural land use; Trains; War stamps; World War II

Subjects: African American history; Agricultural laborers.; Agriculture.; Beer.; Dance.; Depressions--1929.; First aid.; Hitler, Adolf, 1889-1945.; Hobbies; Income.; Kentucky--History.; Korean War, 1950-1953.; Land use, Rural.; Leisure.; Midway (Ky.); Occupations; Parties.; Passenger trains.; Railroad trains.; Recreation.; Roosevelt, Franklin D. (Franklin Delano), 1882-1945.; Soap.; Soldiers.; Veterans.; Vietnam War, 1961-1975.; Wages.; War tax stamps; War.; Work.; World War, 1939-1945

Partial Transcript: Well, when this house, then, was built, this of course has electricity and, and a central heating, but the first house here, did you have a stove in it for heating?

Segment Synopsis: Johnson says they had electricity in their house, but not water, which they got from a pump outside. People along the street would come to this pump to get water. Some people had pumps and wells in their yards. The same doctors served both Black and white citizens. They discuss someone who had severe polio but recovered. They discuss various health issues. Women used midwives for childbirth instead of doctors. They discuss trying to keep clean and how they washed their hands and bathed. The children were not allowed to miss their Saturday baths.

Keywords: African American families; African Americans; Bathing; Bathing customs; Baths; Black families; Black people; Black women; Cleaning; Cleanliness; Doctors; Grooming; Hand washing; Health; Hospitals; House calls; Medical care; Medicine; Parents; Plumbing; Polio; Sewing; Washing hands; Water; Water pumps

Subjects: African American history; Chicken pox; Diseases; Dressmaking.; Electricity.; Hand pumps; Influenza Epidemic, 1918-1919; Iron lung; Kentucky--History.; Measles.; Midway (Ky.); Midwifery.; Midwives.; Mumps; Physicians.; Plumbing.; Poliomyelitis; Tuberculosis.; Water--Distribution.; Women midwives

Partial Transcript: Did, did your family have a garden too, with both your parents working--

Segment Synopsis: Johnson's family had a garden where they grew greens, beans, lettuce, potatoes, tomatoes, and kept chickens. They had fruit, including grape vines, apples, and peaches around in the area. On Christmas and Thanksgiving, they had turkey and every Sunday they had beef roast and potatoes. The Great Depression wasn't too bad for them because they had access to food. They had to go to town to get the groceries.

Keywords: African American families; African Americans; Apples; Beans; Beef roasts; Black families; Black people; Cabbages; Cake; Chickens; Eggs; Grapes; Great Depression; Green beans; Greens; Jams; Jelly; Lettuce; Milk; Peaches; Pies; Pork; Potatoes; Rations; Roasting (cooking); Roasts; Tomatoes

Subjects: African American history; Baking.; Christmas.; Cities and towns; Cooking.; Depressions--1929.; Families.; Food habits.; Food preferences.; Food.; Fruits; Gardens.; Groceries.; Holidays.; Kentucky--History.; Meat.; Midway (Ky.); Mothers.; Rationing; Thanksgiving; Travel.; Vegetables.

Partial Transcript: During the war did you continue to work in Lexington then? Did you come back here to work?

Segment Synopsis: Johnson worked at an antiques store for about a decade. She also worked at St Joseph Hospital in Lexington in the children's ward. She also worked redrying tobacco from November to March. The conveyor belts kept going and they had to get relief if they needed to leave for the restroom. They discuss the general experience of this work, including conditions and pay. Most of the workers at the factory were Black people. They would pay people to take them to work because the train didn't run early enough.

Keywords: African Americans; Black people; Children; Hospitals; Jobs; Labor; Occupations; Redry tobacco; Redrying; Redrying tobacco; St. Joseph Hospital (Lexington, Ky.); Tobacco; Tobacco redry; Tobacco redrying; Work

Subjects: African American history; Antique dealers.; Antiques.; Automobile driving.; Automobiles.; Children--Hospital care.; Conveyor belts; Income.; Kentucky--History.; Lexington (Ky.); Midway (Ky.); Passenger trains.; Railroad trains.; Seasonal labor; Selling--Antiques; Transportation.; Travel.; Wages.

Partial Transcript: And especially the people that came from out of the South, they had one town here, it was Richmond, they hated--

Segment Synopsis: The other interviewee discusses the coworkers at her factory, stating that they hated the people who came out of Richmond. She describes the coworkers as tough people. This was the first time she really knew Black people from the South, stating that they talked and dressed differently. She said you had to try and fit in with them. They were just coworkers, not friends. They would go back for Christmas; they were migrants. Some people worked at redrying tobacco for years.

Keywords: African Americans; Agricultural laborers; Agriculture; Black people; Coworkers; Farm labor; Farm laborers; Farm work; Farm workers; Farms; Farmwork; Holidays; Migrants; Redrying tobacco; Relationships; Rural land use; Social activity; Socializing; Tobacco; Tobacco redry; Tobacco redrying; Traveling; Workers

Subjects: African American history; Christmas.; Dates (Social engagements); Friendship.; Immigrants.; Interpersonal communication.; Interpersonal relations; Interracial friendship.; Kentucky--History.; Land use, Rural.; Lifestyles.; Manners and customs; Midway (Ky.); Migrant agricultural laborers; Social interaction.; Travel.

Partial Transcript: The only people who didn't work in Midway would have been the, the white women.

Segment Synopsis: The interviewees discuss how white women were the only people who didn't work and it seemed both normal and strange to them at the time. They would have to do a lot of housework for these women because they didn't do any cooking or cleaning for themselves. The men did the yardwork. The white women participated in bridge clubs, church activity, and other social activities. Some white and Black women were friends. They discuss which clubs accepted Black women.

Keywords: African Americans; Black people; Black women; Caretakers; Child minding; Childcare; Childcarers; Childminders; Cleaning; Cooking; Daughters of the American Revolution (DAR); Domestic work; Hobbies; Housecleaners; Leisure; Nurserymaids; Parties; Recreation; Tea; Tea parties; White women

Subjects: African American history; Attucks, Crispus, -1770.; Bridge (Game); Church buildings; Church.; Cleanliness.; Day care aides; Friendship.; House cleaning.; Housekeeping; Interpersonal communication.; Interpersonal relations; Interracial friendship.; Kentucky--History.; Laundry.; Lifestyles.; Manners and customs; Midway (Ky.); Mops and mopsticks; Nannies; Red Cross and Red Crescent; Social interaction.; Women household employees.; Women--Societies and clubs.

Partial Transcript: Did, did you ever do this domestic work in--

Segment Synopsis: Johnson did domestic work before she worked in Lexington. She preferred what she did because she had more control and independence over her own life than if she had stayed in town and worked as her mother did. Her father was from Midway and her mother was from Scott County. Her dad's father was part Native American. A family member was a chief steward on a train. She tells a story about the Rookwood Ham business. Her mother worked for a family whose wife was sick all the time and they treated her respectfully. She describes her father as a character; he had the nickname "Stormy Weather," which was the opposite of his personality. She discusses some history of a local church.

Keywords: African American Families; African American businesses; African American owned businesses; African Americans; Black businesses; Black families; Black owned businesses; Black people; Diseases; Domestic work; Families; Fathers; House work; Housekeepers; Housework; Illnesses; Mothers; Parents; Sickness; Trains

Subjects: African American history; Autonomy.; Business enterprises, Black; Business enterprises.; Christianity.; Church buildings; Church.; Independence; Kentucky--History.; Labor.; Lexington (Ky.); Midway (Ky.); Native Americans.; Occupations; Passenger trains.; Railroad trains.; Religion.; Religious; Scott County (Ky.); Women household employees.; Work

Partial Transcript: And is that where you went to school?

Segment Synopsis: The school building was an ordinary country school, with a pot belly stove for heat. There were two rooms and two teachers. It went to the eighth grade. All the Black students went to this school. They had plays, shows, movies, and assemblies in the upstairs community space. The building used to be a Baptist church. It never had an official name other than "Midway's Colored School." The teachers were Black. There was an exam before being able to go to Versailles for further schooling. They had assemblies every morning with prayer and singing and saluting the flag. The male teacher who taught the higher grades was also the principal, who got decrees from the white superintendent. The lower grades' teacher was usually a woman and wasn't included in decisions.

Keywords: African American students; African American teachers; African Americans; Black people; Black students; Black teachers; Classrooms; Cleaning; Coal; Coal stoves; Education; Elementary schools; Exams; Fires; Flags; Food; Food habits; Heating; Junior high schools; Kitchens; Middle schools; Minorities; Racism against Black people; Reading; Rural schools; School cafeterias; Schools; Students; Teachers; Teaching; Tests; Wood stoves; Writing

Subjects: African American history; African Americans--Segregation; Christianity.; Church.; Discrimination in education.; Emblems, National.; Examinations; Kentucky--History.; Learning and scholarship.; Midway (Ky.); Prayer.; Racism.; Religion.; Religious; School children--Food.; School lunchrooms, cafeterias, etc.; School superintendents.; Schools--Exercises and recreations; Segregation in education.; Segregation.; Versailles (Ky.)

Partial Transcript: They had to go to high school--finish high school at least.

Segment Synopsis: Johnson says they could retake the exam for high school, but it made them a year behind. A man drove a bus to take them to Versailles and picked them up from their homes. The white students had a high school in Midway. The high school in Versailles was an all-Black school. They discuss other options for high school. Johnson went all four years to the Simmons High School in Versailles. They discuss the subjects they were taught. They discuss the teachers. Their school books were the older editions of the newer books the white kids got. Johnson was interested in languages.

Keywords: African American students; African American teachers.; African Americans; Black people; Black students; Black teachers; Buses; Civics; Classrooms; English; English language; English literature; English literature and language; Exams; Football; Ford Spring (Ky.); High schools; History; Home economics; Latin language; Mathematics; Minorities; Racism against Black people; Reading; School buses; Schools; Students; Teachers; Teaching; Tests; Textbooks; Woodshop

Subjects: African American history; African Americans--Segregation; Auditoriums; Discrimination in education.; Education; Education, Higher.; Examinations; Football.; Frankfort (Ky.); Georgetown (Ky.); Home economics.; Kentucky--History.; Language and languages.; Latin language--Study and teaching.; Lawrenceburg (Ky.); Learning and scholarship.; Literature.; Mathematics.; Midway (Ky.); Racism.; Rural schools; Schools; Schools--Exercises and recreations; Segregation in education.; Segregation.; Shop class; Versailles (Ky.); Woodford County (Ky.)

Partial Transcript: Was that hard, to get a job?

Segment Synopsis: Johnson said it was easy to get a job in someone's kitchen. She then went to St. Joseph Hospital and worked as a maid. They rode a bus into town. Then she went to work downtown in a store called W. H. Rowlands for twelve years as a maid. She then worked at Lafayette Galleries, an antiques shop, as a maid. She said there were dance halls in Georgetown and Lexington and they would bring in big name bands into Lexington. They had specific dance halls for Black citizens. She didn't really drink so she didn't notice Prohibition. Sundays were for church; churches also had recreational activities, including summer camps, conferences, and conventions once a year. She has never been married. Nobody put any pressure on her to marry.

Keywords: African American women domestic workers; African Americans; Antiques; Black people; Black women domestic workers; Dances; Dancing; Domestic workers; Hobbies; Hospitals; Income; Lafayette Galleries; Leisure; Lifestyles; Maids; Marriage; Money; Passenger trains; Railroad trains; Recreation; Trains; Transportation; Travel; Wages; Women domestic workers

Subjects: African American history; Antique dealers.; Calloway, Cab, 1907-1994.; Children--Hospital care.; Dance halls; Dates (Social engagements); Dating (Social customs); Friendship.; Interpersonal relations; Kentucky--History.; Labor.; Lexington (Ky.); Manners and customs; Midway (Ky.); Occupations; Railroad trains.; Selling--Antiques; Social interaction.; Women household employees.; Work

Partial Transcript: So your parents, did they work a long time?

Segment Synopsis: Johnson's parents worked all their lives. Her mother stopped when she got sick in her 70s. Her dad also stopped when he got sick. They got some money when Social Security started. Her mother's employers, the Roach family, were good to them, even after she stopped working for them. Their parents didn't earn enough to save anything for the future. The employers helped build their house, with two bedrooms, kitchen, and bathroom. They discuss one of the Roach children named Ben who grew up to be a doctor.

Keywords: African American families; African Americans; Black families; Black people; Children; Diseases; Doctors; Elderly; Families; Fathers; Illnesses; Mothers; Old age; Parents; Sickness; Walking

Subjects: African American history; Family history; Home ownership.; Housing.; Income.; Kentucky--History.; Labor.; Longevity.; Midway (Ky.); Occupations; Older people.; Physicians.; Retirement.; Social security.; Wages.; Women household employees.; Work

Partial Transcript: Well, what do we talk about now? Should we talk about, about Midway?

Segment Synopsis: Johnson was more independent than her mother in her life. She worked as the only Black person on the job but did everything together with her coworkers regardless of race. W.H. Rowlands was a clothing store. She enjoyed people and didn't want to work alone. She is glad she didn't move to Lexington. She says it was easier to get to Lexington from Midway when she was younger than it is now; there was a greyhound bus and a train between the towns. They would go to Lexington and spend the day there for recreation. When she was growing up, the children would go to Woodburn, a different Black community, and have picnics.

Keywords: African American community; African Americans; Autonomy; Black community; Black people; Black women; Hobbies; Independence; Interracial relationships; Labor; Leisure; Occupations; Passenger trains; Picnics; Railroad trains; Recreation; Trains; White women; Woodburn (ky.); Work

Subjects: African American history; Dates (Social engagements); Dating (Social customs); Friendship.; Georgetown (Ky.); Greyhound Lines, Inc.; Greyhound buses; Interpersonal relations; Interracial friendship.; Kentucky--History.; Lexington (Ky.); Lifestyles.; Manners and customs; Midway (Ky.); Social interaction.; Versailles (Ky.)

Partial Transcript: Well what about that distillery? I keep hearing about it.

Segment Synopsis: The interviewees discuss the distillery in Midway and how important it was for men. They had white women in the bottling plant. The unnamed interviewee talks about helping her aunt serve southern cooking to the employees. They discuss how the white people in those days cared about their Black employees and discuss changes in interracial relationships over time. The other interviewee talks about helping a white woman who felt she was beholden to her. They discuss how the white wives were dependent on their husbands and Black people are dependent on the white women to hire them. She discusses a job she had when she was fourteen until she finished high school, including her duties and wages.

Keywords: African Americans; Black people; Black women; Bottling companies; Bottling plants; Cooking; Dependency; Dependent; Distilleries; Food; Food habits; Husbands; Income; Interracial friendship.; Interracial relationships; Jobs; Marriage; Men; Southern cooking; Southern food; Wages; White women; Wives; Working class men

Subjects: African American history; Cooking, American--Southern style.; Cooking.; Friendship.; Interpersonal relations; Interracial friendship.; Kentucky--History.; Labor.; Lifestyles.; Manners and customs; Midway (Ky.); Misogyny.; Occupations; Sexism.; Social interaction.; Work

Partial Transcript: Well, when, when was the earliest that--when did you really realize that you were sort of different, or that you were viewed as different?

Segment Synopsis: The interviewees discuss when they realized they were viewed as different because of their race. It depended on how the white people treated her. The white people they worked for preferred a Black person to a poor white person as an employee. They mention how knowing they went to different schools indicated they were different. They discuss how everyone knew everyone in the small town. They had scouts, YWCA, Hi-Fi club, Key Club, and a neighbor's traveling club. She is a member of the Hijinks Club where they socialize together. There was an art and literary club that met at different homes. They mention when World War II was over and the train stopped and everybody got off and partied. They had a kitchen orchestra where they played washtubs, washboards, spoons and similar instruments.

Keywords: African American musicians; African American students; African American women musicians; African American women folk musicians; African American women singers; African Americans; Art and literary clubs; Black musicians; Black people; Black students; Black women; Black women folk musicians; Black women musicians; Black women singers; Clubs; Education; Female orchestras; Folk music; Hi fi club; Hijinks club; Interracial friendships; Interracial relationships; Kitchen orchestras; Kitchens; Men; Music; Musical instruments; Neighbor's traveling club; Orchestras; Percussion; Poor whites; Poverty; Racism against Black people; Rural; Rural schools; Schools; Singers; Songs; Travel clubs; White women; Women singers; Working class men; World War II

Subjects: African American history; Book clubs (Discussion groups).; Discrimination in education.; Discrimination.; Ensemble playing; Folk musicians; Friendship.; Girl Scouts.; Girls--Societies and clubs.; Hobbies; Instrumentalists; Interpersonal relations; Kentucky--History.; Key Club International; Labor.; Leisure.; Lifestyles.; Manners and customs; Midway (Ky.); Misogyny.; Music--Performance.; Musicians.; Occupations; Race discrimination.; Racism.; Recreation.; Segregation in education.; Sexism.; Singing.; Social interaction.; Spoons.; Women folk musicians; Women musicians.; Women--Societies and clubs.; Work; World War, 1939-1945; Young Women's Christian Association.

Partial Transcript: Well, another thing I'm interested in is when the--in the civil rights era in the 1960s--of course we're border south here...

Segment Synopsis: The interviewees say there was a civil rights march in Lexington but it didn't really concern them. They said no one they knew went to the March on Washington. They became more aware of civil rights when they integrated the schools, which happened without problems. The other interviewee discusses her children's experience of school integration. They say that if the kids at the time of the interview get in trouble, the Black kids get kicked out while the white kids are fine. They're pushing Black kids behind in school, trying to hold them back. Black people are getting pushed out of Midway. They discuss the new Midway school.

Keywords: African American students; African Americans; Black people; Black students; Civil rights; Discrimination; Education; Integration; March on Washington; Race relations; Racism against Black people; Rural schools; Schools; Washington March

Subjects: African American history; Discrimination in education.; Kentucky--History.; Lexington (Ky.); March on Washington Movement (Organization); March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom (1963 : Washington, D.C.); Midway (Ky.); Race discrimination.; Racism.; School integration.; Segregation in education.

Partial Transcript: Now, you know, Midway could lose their school entirely.

Segment Synopsis: The interviewees discuss the new Midway school. They reiterate that Black people are getting pushed out of Midway. Johnson discusses how the mail system and post office work in Midway. White people wanted the post office to be moved. They say they should have been fighting for mail delivery. Johnson can't afford to have a postal box. They heard about Martin Luther King, Jr. on TV and it felt almost like it was a different country to them. They end with some concluding remarks.

Keywords: African American children; African American students; African Americans; Black children; Black people; Black students; Busing; Education; Integration; Post offices; Postal service; Racism against Black people; Rural schools; Schools

Subjects: African American history; Busing for school integration; Civil rights.; Discrimination in education.; Discrimination.; Kentucky--History.; King, Martin Luther, Jr., 1929-1968.; Mailboxes; Midway (Ky.); Race discrimination.; Racism.; School integration.; Segregation in education.