Interview with Jessica R. Knox, Victoria Knox Storey, December 15, 2021

HAY: Rolling. Action.

GRIMES: My name is Le Datta Grimes and today is December 15, 2021. I'm here today with Jessica Knox and Victoria--

KNOX STOREY: Knox Storey.

GRIMES: Victoria Knox Storey at the Kenton County Library in Covington, Kentucky. The name of the project is the 1964 March on Frankfort Oral History Project. This is a project sponsored by the City of Frankfort with funding from the National Park Services Preserving African American Civil Rights History Grant and is produced by Joanna Hay Productions. The interviews will be archived by the Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History at the University of Kentucky Libraries and exhibited at the Capital City Museum in Frankfort. How you ladies doing today?

KNOX STOREY: Doing marvelous.

KNOX: Fine, thank you.

GRIMES: Good! So, if you'll start by stating your name and your age.

KNOX: Okay. I am Jessica Knox, and I will be seventy-two in January.

KNOX STOREY: I'm Victoria Knox Storey and I am sixty-three.

GRIMES: Where were you born?

KNOX: I was born in Danville, Kentucky, and lived for a while in Frankfort and Louisville and Covington. (laughs)

GRIMES: Where do you live today?

KNOX: I live today in Fort Wright, Kentucky.

KNOX STOREY: I was born in Louisville, Kentucky, and then my parents moved up here to northern Kentucky, and then we moved back to, well, Louisville, Kentucky--area. And then my family decided to move back to--(laughs)--Northern Kentucky, and currently--I presently live in Fort Wright, Kentucky.

GRIMES: Okay. Talk to me about your parents. Who are they? Their names and where they were born and--.

KNOX: Okay. Our father's Thurman Wendell (??) Knox and he was born in a small town called Dime Box Kentucky--I mean Texas.

KNOX STOREY: Texas.

KNOX: Dime Box, Texas.

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: On the--August the thirty-first, 1923. Our mother was Alice 00:02:00Fullwood (??) Knox and she was born in, wait a minute, I forgot.

KNOX STOREY: She was born in Alabama.

KNOX: Alabama, yeah. I forget the city now. And she was--

KNOX STOREY: --Tuscaloosa, wasn't it?

KNOX: No.

KNOX STOREY: Alabama?

KNOX: That's good. (laughs) And she was born in January the fifth, 1925.

GRIMES: Who were your parents and what did they do for a living?

KNOX: Okay, well they met at Kentucky State University after the war. My dad came there to Frankfort because he had malaria and that was the best place for him to be treated, was in Lexington. And so, he also had had a scholarship before he went to war, to play football at Kentucky State so they both combined well, and so they met there, fell in love, and they were married for fifty-one years before she passed away. And--Very good love story. (laughs)

GRIMES: So, he served in World War II?

KNOX: Yes, he did--

GRIMES: --is that correct?

KNOX: Yes, he did, in the Philippines.

GRIMES: Hmm. So, what did your father do for a living?

KNOX: He was--his last job, he was executive, well he had been Executive Director of Northern Kentucky Community Action Agency, and then before he passed away, he became Executive Director of Findlay--not Findlay. Emanuel Community Center in Cincinnati.

GRIMES: And he served as the president, correct? Of the NAACP [National Association for the Advancement of Colored People]. Was that--

KNOX: He was started off as local president, then he became the state president of the NAACP. So, during the height of the Civil Rights Movement, he was the state president of the NAACP, during the March on Frankfort.

GRIMES: How did you all grow up, and what school did you attend? Were they segregated? Desegregated? Talk about your neighborhood, your school, and just life growing up.

KNOX: Well---(laughs)--when I lived in Louisville first, that I remember you know, having a good memory of, and we grew up on a street called Magnolia Street, and it was integrated. On one end of the street, Caucasian children lived, and on the other end of the street, it was African American families, and they went to different--everybody went to different churches. So, some were Catholic, some were Baptist, some Methodist, so everybody went to different churches. I didn't know there was segregation because we went out to eat in Louisville. Black families had a movie theater. You know, we had everything. Stores and stuff, so I did not know. When Dad got a transfer in his job and he came up here to Covington, that was my first experience with segregation, and I was nine going on ten. And I can remember, I'm getting a little 00:05:00emotional about this because--(clears throat)--we went to [a] store, Coppins in Covington, and my dad saw this hat, and he said, "Alice, this hat's going to look beautiful on you." And he put it on her head--went to put it on her head, and a sales lady came over and snatched it from him, and said, "If you put that hat on that nigger's head, you're going to have to buy it." And I saw my father's eyes get kind of filled up, you know? Because he knew then he couldn't protect us, and he couldn't protect my ma. And that was very important to him. And, so, that was my first experience with segregation. Then after that we realized we couldn't go to the bathrooms and things. And so---(laughs)--we had to go to the alleys. So, every little girl that was in my age group 00:06:00then knew what it meant to walk home with wet socks and shoes. You had to pee in the alley, and if you got caught peeing in the alley, you could go to jail. (laughs) Which was a little insane.

GRIMES: How'd you feel about that?

KNOX: How do I feel about it now?

GRIMES: How did you feel then?

KNOX: Oh, oh. It was humiliating. Like I said, when I lived on Magnolia Street, it was just love and beautiful and everybody seemed to get along. Even though they may not have, (laughs)--it seemed that way. And to move here to a place where you know, people just--it just seemed to me it just was a lot of hate. People hated one another, nobody got along. It was just sad. Yeah. So, I'll be honest with you, I--(laughs)--hated the experience, I did. It was devastating.

GRIMES: What was your experience with segregation and desegregation?

KNOX STOREY: By the time I went to elementary school, it was segregated by that time. So, I don't necessarily, my recall of memories being that way, and I think a lot of it had to do with my parents and my sisters. They were always constantly watching over me and making sure that I did not have those experience that they had. The only thing that I can say that I can recall was phone calls that came into the house during that time. And I always used to hear my mom answer the phone, and she would give her comeback at the end of the conversation. So, they used to tell me, "Stay away from the phone. Don't answer the phone, Vicki. Don't answer the phone." Not knowing that the reason they didn't want me to answer the phone it was hate calls. And so, I 00:08:00answered the phone one day and all I wanted to do was to do Mama at the end of the conversation. And when I was able to finally get to that point to say is, "God bless you." You know and, "I'm praying for you." Or something to that nature that she would say. And talking years later to my sisters, they finally told me "Oh, no, no. You had a bad experience from that phone call. You ran up [the] steps and cried and laid on your bed, saying, 'They gonna kill Daddy. They said they gonna kill Daddy.'" And I said, "I don't remember that." But what I remembered because of the fact that they were trying to give so much love to the community as well as their home that she was giving that off that phone call, and that was what I wanted to give that man or person. That love back. That's what I do remember of my parents: that they embraced with so much, 00:09:00and I'm quite sure by the end of the day they both went into their room, they both may have cried and--and held each other, but little did I see that. What I saw with them both was full of so much courage and commitment and really wanted to make a change and make a difference.

GRIMES: So, why would your family be receiving death threats?

KNOX: Go ahead.

KNOX STOREY: As far as I was aware of the time, the reason why he was receiving because of the fact that they were involved in the civil rights and doing boycotting and trying to make changes that they did not want that change in our community. And I'm quite sure Jessica can elaborate more than I can.

KNOX: Well, you hit it exactly true. People of course don't like changes, and especially when it came to the fact that giving rights to African Americans you know, at that time. It just seemed unusual and definitely 00:10:00unacceptable to a good percentage of white people in the community. So, these people would call my dad and say they were going to kill him. And we grew up with, one time they shot into the home. Dad told us--and this is something that they told everybody in NAACP who was involved: you had to drop and roll and crawl out of the room--(laughs)--when the gunfire started. And so, Mom and Dad--we had a huge living room, so the dining room, she actually made half dining room, half living room, and our living room was our TV room because they had walls for protection, you know. And so, this is how we grew up. This is the experiences that we had, and it was fun for Vicki because when he was teaching us to drop and roll--

KNOX STOREY: --yeah--

KNOX: --she didn't realize--

KNOX STOREY: --I didn't--

KNOX: --and then when they shot into the home--

KNOX STOREY: --um-hm--

KNOX: --I think it kind of went over her head as well--

KNOX STOREY: --and she didn't know what was going on. But like she said that phone call was her opening.

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: She was about five years old, and she grabbed the phone.

GRIMES: Before I go any further, I realize I forgot to ask about your siblings. Who are they?

KNOX: Oh, okay. (laughs)

KNOX STOREY: (laughs)

GRIMES: And where do you all fall in line?

KNOX STOREY: (laughs) Okay.

KNOX: Okay. I'm the second child. Our sister, Clarice, her name is Taylor. Clarice, she married--I got married too, but I--I use my maiden name now. But she was a teacher, and she taught, and she had her, well she has her master's in education.

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: She--the other one is--

KNOX STOREY: --and she is seventy-four--

KNOX: Thank you for adding that.

KNOX STOREY: Yes.

KNOX: Yeah.

KNOX STOREY: And then the youngest--I am the youngest.

KNOX: Um-hm.

KNOX STOREY: Clarice is the eldest--

KNOX: --um-hm--

KNOX STOREY: --and Jessica's second child--

KNOX: --um-hm--

KNOX STOREY: --and then third child is Wendellyn, and she's Wendellyn 00:12:00Knox Rush, and she lives in Seguin, Texas.

KNOX: (??)

KNOX STOREY: Texas--

KNOX: --um-hm--

KNOX STOREY: --and Wendy is sixty-nine. And she is an attorney in Texas, licensed in Texas and in--

KNOX: --um-hm--

KNOX STOREY: --Kentucky.

KNOX: Um-hm.

GRIMES: So, how far apart are you two in age?

KNOX STOREY: Eight years apart.

KNOX: I'm almost nine.

KNOX STOREY: (laughs) Yeah In January--

KNOX: I like to give myself full credit. (laughs)

KNOX STOREY: In January she'll be nine years--in August I will be turning sixty-four, so she loves to say that all the time, "I'm nine years older than you!" (laughter) Okay, when you turn that--

KNOX: Almost.

KNOX STOREY: Right.

KNOX: I always say almost.

(laughter)

GRIMES: So, it's four girls.

KNOX: Four girls.

KNOX STOREY: Four girls.

GRIMES: What did your parents tell you about what was taking place all around you? Did you understand the work your father was doing and your mother as well?

KNOX: I definitely did.

KNOX STOREY: Yeah.

KNOX: Yeah.

GRIMES: How so?

KNOX: Well, I was with Dad a lot. I can remember one time we had been to a, I guess a conference, in Lexington, Kentucky and there was a family 00:13:00there that we were really close to. I'm sorry, I can't remember their names right now. And Dad and I were coming home late at night and back then they didn't have the highways, so we were on the old roads. And Dad told me, he said, "I think it's--the Klan is behind us, Jess." And we had been having some involvements like that. And I said, "What are we going to do?" And he said to me, "This is what I want you to do, Jess. If they stop the car--" he took his coat that was on the seat and laid it on the floor--"get under my coat." And he said, "Then I want you to--"--(chokes up)--excuse me. "When they pull me out of the car, I want you to--" because they didn't have a light in the car then. "--I want you to open up the door, get out of the car, and crawl over to 00:14:00the woods and stay in the woods. No matter what you hear, no matter what happens." And then he said, "I want--you're going to be all right, okay? I'll be all right." And so, I had to get on the floor and get under his coat, and then all at once I heard him turn the car and--he let them get close to him, and then he--(laughs)--sped past them and we made it back to Lexington. We hadn't been too far out of Lexington. And when he came up, he blew his horn so in that Black community everybody knew come out with your guns. And I was the first one he told to run to the house, which I was scared to do. And I ran to the house, but they were hollering for me, "Come one! Come on! We got you, we got you!" And then Dad got out of the car and ran to the house, so we ended up spending the night here and coming back during the day. But those are the experiences that I had with him because pretty much any place he went, I went. And I 00:15:00didn't want to be without my dad, so I went with him all the time.

GRIMES: How old were you when that happened?

KNOX: I was probably about thirteen. Twelve, thirteen.

GRIMES: Hmm.

KNOX: Yeah.

GRIMES: What do you remember? How do you remember feeling that night, and did you talk about it later, or?

KNOX: Never.

GRIMES: Wow.

KNOX: Nope. I just, I was just thankful that we were safe. I felt safe where we were, and around the community because it was a Black community in Lexington, and people were pretty to me strong and powerful and especially the men that we were around, you know. My dad told me about why he did what he did, and I remember asking him about that and he said, "Jess, I want you to understand something." He said, "All the men that I'm with, we all went to war 00:16:00for this country. We fought for this country. I had friends that died for this country. And I come home, and I can't drink at some water fountains? I can't go to the store and put a hat on my wife's head? My children can't go to the bathroom?" (laughs) You know? And he said, "And I pay taxes. But we have no rights in this country." And so, he said "All of us are military. We fought for this country. We can fight for our right, too." And so, I thought it was powerful and I thought he was powerful.

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: And I adored my dad, and I adored my mom.

GRIMES: Describe him to me.

KNOX STOREY: (laughs)

KNOX: He was tall. Back then--(laughter)--. Not today.

KNOX STOREY: Still would be today.

KNOX: We--were all considered tall. He was six two. He was strong and powerful. Handsome. Extremely handsome. And he was gentle. He adored my mom.

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: He adored all of us. He was well-respected in the community, and he treated everybody so kind. Both my mom and dad were known for their kindness and generosity. When we were, well I think I may have been in high school then, and this Reverend Maxwell who was head of the Trinity Church in Covington, had a family that was stranded, and he said to, called up my mom and dad and said, "I don't have any place to put them. Can I bring them to your house to spend the night? And then in the morning we'll put them on a bus and send them down to Arkansas." That's where they were from. And without hesitation they said, "Yes, sure!" You know, "Bring them on and we'll put them up for the night." 00:18:00So, my mother went upstairs and changed the sheets on their bed and you know and put out fresh things for this family coming. It was a husband, a wife, and her baby. And when--(laughs)--Reverend Maxwell brought them to the house, it was a white family. A young man and his wife and baby. And everybody was shocked, including them and my parents, because everybody just assumed--(laughs)--that they would be African American family. And then Reverend Maxwell said, "Well, nobody from our church will take them in." So, the white families wouldn't take them in. And he said, "Thurman, I know you and Alice will do it, and I had nowhere place else to take them!" Because he had a little efficiency apartment over the church. And so the guy, the young white guy said, "I'm not staying with these niggers." And Reverend Maxwell said, "Well, I don't know where y'all going to stay because there ain't no place else for you to stay." So, my dad got offended when he called him a name, but dad didn't say anything. And 00:19:00Mother went to the woman, and she said, "Are you hungry?" And the lady said, "Yes." And he said, "Let's come on, bring the baby in here. We're going to bathe the baby." She said, "I don't have any diapers." Ma said, "I'll cut up some towels and you know we'll put the, for the baby for the diapers." And--and Ma started cooking breakfast and stuff for them, even though it was about one o'clock in the morning. And so they stayed with us, but when they got ready to leave, because of the kindness and love that my mom and dad showed them, he hugged my dad and he said, "I'll never use that word again. I promise you I'll never use that word again." So, I saw that all the time. I saw my mother and father transform people's lives through love, and I think that's what we try to do too. We grew up with that, you know. And in our eyes, love is a very powerful thing because our parents taught us that.

KNOX STOREY: --(whispers)--can we stop the tape? Yeah, just as she 00:20:00was stating about the couple, what I thought was courageous of my--both of my parents--after all that had happened, that they gave their bed up to let this couple come and stay with us for that night. That was genuine love, and that's the whole part of what they taught me what the Civil Rights was to fight for your rights, but also do it in love. Teaching that this is what I need to have is my rights, equal, everyone to have equal rights. And when you don't have that, you're robbing and you're taking away the individual, their freedom.

KNOX: Um-hm.

KNOX STOREY: And so, when I saw that love of my mom and dad, that even made even more so for me to understand that this is what is this about, and they always showed love in the community. Helping other kids to go to school, and 00:21:00or get in college, and somebody was without, they may have been without, but they would never have told us. They definitely wanted to help other people.

KNOX: Um-hm.

KNOX STOREY: So, yeah, I definitely am so proud of both of them, then they gave that to us as a family and as a community.

GRIMES: Do you recall any other experiences in the house like that at all?

KNOX STOREY: As far as--

KNOX: --Every day. (laughs)

KNOX STOREY: Yeah, I was going to say Mom and Dad was always constantly as I stated helping somebody--

KNOX: --um-hm--

KNOX STOREY: --in the community.

KNOX: Um-hm.

KNOX STOREY: Helping them go to school, I would see them putting all these toys and food in the back of the car, and I'm like, "Where you going?" And you know, it was just a normal thing. I thought it was normal. I thought every family did this.

KNOX: Um-hm.

KNOX STOREY: And they taking some food or somebody to Miss So-and-So, Mister So-and-So. People down the street or around the corner, so I just thought it was a thing that you were supposed to do--

KNOX: --um-hm--

KNOX STOREY: --until I got older and especially when I went off to college, talking to other girlfriends and talking about what my parents did, and they were like, "You know that's not normal."

KNOX: (laughs)

KNOX STOREY: And I'm "Oh, it wasn't?"

KNOX: (laughs)

KNOX STOREY: You know, I thought this--"What, did your parents do this?" "No!" Oh. Okay. But my parents did and I think that's what instilled me to want to--to go into social work--

KNOX: --hmm--

KNOX STOREY:--and to be able to help people as well, too.

KNOX: I know when drugs became a problem in the community, I was in college by then, and these young kids came to the house and brought their friend who was overdosing on drugs. And said, "We can't take him to the--we can't call the police. We can't call an ambulance." Because they will know--my mask. Sorry. "They will know that he's, you know, been taking drugs."

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: (laughs) So, my mother and father, because my dad had majored in physical education, he knew what to do to help him, and they saved his life 00:23:00and but that was just like I said, ordinary for them.

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: And they were well-loved by everybody, from the elderly to the young. (laughs) They were well-loved.

GRIMES: What kind of activities did you all participate in? Were you are--members of the NAACP or other activist organizations?

KNOX: Clarice and I were. I became the State President of Youth after Jim. Jim was the first--Jim Embry?

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: --was the first State President of the Youth--

GRIMES: Of what organization?

KNOX: NAACP, Kentucky branch. Yeah.

GRIMES: And--what did you do in that role?

KNOX: What did I do?

GRIMES: Um-hm.

KNOX: Oh, I wish you hadn't asked. (laughs) We organized meetings. We would go over the state and set up chapters for the youth, and throughout the 00:24:00state of Kentucky. Help organize the marches, you know, get the children, the young people ready for the marches. Just speaking engagements, things like this.

GRIMES: How did you get young people ready?

KNOX: Well, you had to teach them what to do if you were on--a picket line. I can remember the first one I went on, I was about thirteen and these young white men were walking towards us and they went past all the men, and they came to the children were in the middle, and that's generally where we were training, to be in the middle. And for some reason this guy looked at me and walked over and people say spit, but he actually hocked, there's a difference. When you hock on somebody, you're drawing it up from your gut, you know. (laughs) And he hocked on me. That was one time I saw my father really mad, and he you know, 00:25:00came running for him, and they had to stop him. And we had a priest, Father Dye (??) and he was with me. And Father Dye came over and wiped my face with his handkerchief and hugged me, and I, you know, I loved him. And he actually passed away on my birthday many years later, but he was a good man, and I think because of our involvement in Civil Rights, we grew up without hate. We didn't hate people. (laughs)

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: Because we had too many people who--of you know different races that were involved, that we had met--

KNOX STOREY: --um-hm--

KNOX: --and were involved in Civil Rights. We were blessed to--well, I was.

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: To meet Medgar Evers. You know. Martin Luther King. Roy Wilkins.

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

GRIMES: So, go back. Tell me how you met Medgar Evers.

KNOX: An NAACP meeting. (laughs) I think it was in Washington and we 00:26:00met him, and he and Dad kind of new each other and so, he was on the elevator. That's where I saw him. I met a lot of--Roy Wilkins on the elevator--(laughs)--and they'd be talking to my father, you know, and--

GRIMES: --where'd you meet Ella Baker?--

KNOX STOREY: Elevator.

GRIMES: Elevator! Oh, oh, okay.

KNOX: Ella Baker, oh no I didn't meet her.

(laughter)

GRIMES: Oh, okay. Oh, okay, I thought you said Ella Baker, I'm like, "what?"

KNOX STOREY: I think that--yeah.

KNOX: I'm sorry, this mask.

GRIMES: Um-hm.

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: I met Roy Wilkins on the elevator, and as well as--

KNOX STOREY: --Medgar--

KNOX: --Medgar Evers. Yeah, yeah. I just remember Medgar reminded me of my dad and I was so impressed to meet him. He was such a kind man. I was amazed at how kind these met were. Great majority of them that I got to meet. And I remember when they killed him, that's one time I got really scared. Because like it was so real, you know? And surreal. And I was afraid for my father then, 00:27:00from that point on, I was scared that they might kill him. And yeah so.

GRIMES: How did you carry that? I mean, what did--how did that fear manifest itself?

KNOX: (laughs) I think you know my grandfather, my mom's dad, was such a kind, loving man, and he was kind of a strength for us too. But I think--this is sad, and I hate to even admit to it, but it's truthful: I think I stopped living a little bit. Because when he died, I was like, "How could God take somebody that good?" (laughs) You know? In my mind, my child's mind. And I think I actually decided then like, a part of me just won't live. (laughs) Just, I'll keep quiet, I'll stay quiet, and that's the only way you could deal with that. 00:28:00You know, I was happy in our home. I was happy with my parents. But I was very cautious of other people because when I was sixteen, they had integrated the schools. I had gone to a segregated school until I was fifteen. So, the bus driver that brought us back home from a basketball game at night didn't want us on his bus. He was arguing and fussing because the white students had actually stopped the bus, because he would never let us on. And they, he thought they were getting on, and we all rushed on the bus and--(laughs)--got on the bus, and they waved bye to us, and we thought that was the end of it, but he called us names all the way. And so, when we got to our destination, some of the kids just jumped off the bus because you had to pay after you arrived at that 00:29:00time. And so, we put our--my sister Wendy and her friend, Dennis, we put our money into the container, and we got off the bus, but the rest of them jumped off the bus. Unbeknownst to us the bus driver had gotten a--he had a gun, and he was going to shoot at them, but they got away too quickly, so he decided to turn around and shoot at us. And I felt the heat of that bullet go past my ear, and he didn't hit us, thank God, but Wendy's friend said, "Lay on the ground. Hit the ground," because he thought he was going to shoot again. But instead, he was decided he was going to walk up on us and fire closer and so I could hear him, his feet walking, but then a policeman appeared. Somebody had called the police and he told him put the gun down. You know, hold the gun. "To put the gun down." And asked what had happened and he said, "Well, they didn't pay for 00:30:00their fare, and they jumped off the--(laughs)--bus." This was the reason he was going to--(laughs)--shoot us. And so, the policeman went on the bus and said, "The money's laying in the money changer thing." And he said, "Well, the rest of them didn't." And he told him, "Go on." And so, I remember I came home and told Dad what had happened, and he went to the bus company and told them about what had happened, and they just put the man on another route where there was all-white community. They wouldn't fire him. And I remember that was very painful for him too, because nobody would do anything, and that I had been shot at like that, you know and Wendy. Yeah so.

GRIMES: How did you deal with the fear of your father being hurt, though?

KNOX: I don't know. You know, that's a good question. I really don't know. Other than like I said, I just stopped kind of sometimes feel like I just 00:31:00stopped living. You know? I just like maybe lived in a fantasy world? A world of love, kind of like where I had lived on Magnolia Street? I think I kind of would go back into those thoughts of when there was a good time, and that everybody loved one another, and I think I had to have done that. But I had not thought about that until you asked me that question.

KNOX STOREY: I think that, if anything, I would say that when you'd facing a situation like that, how can you deal with it? So, you would have to actually not deal with it. Not go there. And I think that that's basically what she's saying: that you just, you can't, you can't even comprehend when you're going through it. Or even knowing that oh, I'm going to deal with this. I think that's dealing with a lot of things in life. You just go through the moment, and then after many years later you go like, "How did I, how did I go through 00:32:00this?" And people will ask you, "How did you do it?" You don't know.

KNOX: Yeah.

KNOX STOREY: When you're going through it, you're going through the motion just to survive. Just to get through.

KNOX: But I, I think that was my--the fantasy of being back where I was happy.

KNOX STOREY: Yup. And then I think--

KNOX: I'd go up there a lot.

KNOX STOREY: And I think that--the also thing too is that knowing what my parents went through and what they accomplished, as well as many other Civil Rights leaders--

KNOX: --um-hm--

KNOX STOREY: --I don't think that the time that they were doing it, they were just doing it because they knew that they wanted freedom. Freedom for their family, freedom for their community. None of them--and I can remember talking to my father--

KNOX: --um-hm--

KNOX STOREY: --Because I said to him, I said, "Dad you were living history." And he was like, "No." He said, "We weren't, we didn't, wouldn't making no history. We were just trying to live."

KNOX: Um-hm.

KNOX STOREY: "We were trying to just make sure that things were going to be better for you."

KNOX: Um-hm.

KNOX STOREY: "Things were going to be better for our grandchildren. Not knowing that years later that it was going to be that importance to so many people."

KNOX: Um-hm.

KNOX STOREY: And I was telling him and, I was like "I--I can understand."

KNOX: Yeah. I think that he had told me the same thing--

KNOX STOREY: --um-hm--

KNOX: --and that's what I thought, and then that's why I stood on the picket lines. That's why I went through what I went through.

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: Because I said, "My children will never have to have this experience.

KNOX STOREY: Yup.

KNOX: Then--(laughs)--when I watch my children have this experience, and now my grandchildren, it's devastating.

KNOX STOREY: Yeah.

KNOX: I don't have the answers other than, if we can all turn to love. That's the only answer I have. (laughs) But--

GRIMES: Now, you said your father participated in the March on Washington?

KNOX: Yes, he did. He went to the Washington--

GRIMES: --and the Selma March. Tell me a little bit about that. Do you recall him leaving or what he said about it, or?

KNOX: Yeah, I definitely remember when he left, for both marches. I remember that he talked about how many people were there. He was so impressed with, that was the first time he had ever heard Martin Luther King's 00:34:00speech. Speak. And he was so impressed with that. It was just, I think such a unifying moment to see people of all races and nationalities there. To see these powerful speakers. He was just overwhelmed. And we watched it on television, and we watched with my grandfather and, who was actually dying from cancer, and it was one of the last things he got to see. But I never saw that side of him--(laughs)--because he had tears in his eyes, and he was talking about how powerful it was to see that and knowing that my dad was there.

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: And so when Dad came home you know, like I said it was basically he had met a lot of important people, and he later developed a really good friendship with Martin Luther King. Not, you know, like buddies, but a working 00:35:00friendship with him. And then when he went to Selma, he was--they were getting ready to cross the bridge, and this dentist, Dr. Green, and his wife were with him, and they, she said she had a really bad headache. I think it was tension. And Dr. Green said "I don't want to leave her. Can you go and get some aspirin at the store we just passed?" And so, there was a little store and Dad ran back to get the aspirin for him. But when he came back, they had had that experience where they were beating them and forcing them off the bridge and things, and so Dad went down with Father Dye, that I mentioned before, these nuns, a lot of people within the community, and when they were getting off the bus, 00:36:00they were all badly beaten and but my dad got off and he hadn't received that. (laughter) So, because he had gone back to get the aspirin. (laugh)

GRIMES: Wow.

KNOX: So, I was kind of thankful for aspirin that day.

GRIMES: So, one of the things we like to discuss during these interviews--

(coughing)

HAY: Rolling, and action.

GRIMES: So, Victoria, what do you remember about what took place in the home?

KNOX STOREY: Well, one of the things that I remember, was my parents would have meetings, and they invited the rabbis, priests, and nuns. It was a common thing, and little did I realize at that time that they were having a--part of their NAACP meetings. And of course, I thought it was pretty fun and cool, because of course everybody--I guess I was the baby, so everybody was like, "Oh, the baby!" You know, and just loved being around, you know, me, as well as I 00:37:00loved being around them. But what I thought it was just beautiful that I did not realize that they were having these meetings and that's what was going on, until years later talking to Mom and she was like, "Oh, that was part of our meetings that we would have, and brainstorming before we would actually get to the NAACP meetings, you know, that they would be having." And then I was like, "Oh, so I--wasn't aware of that."

KNOX: Um-hm.

KNOX STOREY: Then of course as I stated earlier, that when I went to college talking to my girlfriends and was telling them about things that my parents did and talking about, you know, him being a Civil Rights leader, and which they all thought that was really cool and really interesting and especially when they got to meet my dad because he was like full of life. He was a, just a, just a bubbly person that they loved getting around, and they loved his stories. He, because he would tell some high tale stories. Some of them we found out they were really actually true years later, but we was all like, "Dad, this couldn't be true." You know, some of the things he did as a kid and stuff. But they, 00:38:00they would just said to me, "You know you did not have a normal childhood life. That was not something that most childhood--children had. You know, having priests, rabbis and every--nuns all in their homes, and they having meetings and stuff." And I was like, "Oh, I thought this was something that there again was a normal thing." But yeah, I have to admit, I love the--it was just full of love in there. You know? And it was just also too, they were all committed and that's the part that I got away from--that I took away from that.

GRIMES: Hmm. So, one of the focus points of the interviews that we're doing is women. And so, I don't want to forget your mother.

KNOX: Um-hm.

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

GRIMES: What role did your mother play in your father's life, and family life, and of course in civil rights life, in activism?

KNOX: She wasn't as active in the civil rights, going to meetings and things with him, because Vicky was young, and she stayed behind with Vick. 00:39:00My mother was a trail blazer. (laughs)

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: She started the first daycare service in Northern Kentucky for African American families so that they could go to work, because back the, people were starting to, both parents would be going to work. So, she made it--made it for them to be able to do that. Mom was, she started working when Vicki got older, a little older, and so she was a housewife then. She was always his rock, his strength. When he felt weak, she was strong and powerful for him. When it was overwhelming to him. And then she started, she was a great fundraiser. (laughs) And she--I can remember her, every place that she started working 00:40:00when she got older, she helped add on to the buildings, and she would have fundraisers. So, back then, raising a million dollars meant nothing to my mom. (laughs) And she had no fear, and her words to us always was, "You can always ask."

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: "All they gonna say is yay or nay."

KNOX STOREY: "Yay or nay." Um-hm.

KNOX: "So, always ask. Never, never not ask--"

KNOX STOREY: --um-hm--

KNOX: "--for what you want."

KNOX STOREY: (laughs)

KNOX: And so, she was a sharp little lady at that time, to appear to be five two, very tiny, but she was--

KNOX STOREY: --she was a powerhouse--

KNOX: --powerful. Yeah.

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: Powerhouse. I can remember where she worked in the Findlay Neighborhood House, and they were having a street gang fight. Something I had never seen before, and it was something--they was starting to do at that time. And they were swinging these--(laughs)--chains, and my mom walked up and grabbed the chain from this guy! And she looked at all of them, and she said, "I 00:41:00know your mother, and I know your grandmother. I'm going to see them tomorrow." And they were screaming, "Please Miss Knox! Don't tell my grandma! Please, please!"

KNOX STOREY: (laughs)

KNOX: And she say, "Oh, no. I'll be there." And she did. (laughs) She went to see them. She didn't have any more trouble like that at her center, you know? And--but that was her. She was strong. You know, I think we all felt that.

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: A very strong individual. Powerful woman to be so little. (laughs)

KNOX STOREY: Yeah, she was--she had a lot of strength then. But she also walked with that power, but she also had so much love.

KNOX: Yeah, she did. (laughs)

KNOX STOREY: And that's the reason why the kids were like, "Oh no, Miss Knox!" You know.

KNOX: Um-hm.

KNOX STOREY: And--

KNOX: --respect--

KNOX STOREY: --respect for her. Because of the fact that they knew--they honored her--

KNOX: --um-hm--

KNOX STOREY: --you know, and how she was, gave that love off. That they wanted to make sure that--"Oh, I messed up. Let me make sure I do right."

KNOX: Um-hm.

KNOX STOREY: You know, "Miss Knox is watching us."

KNOX: Um-hm.

KNOX STOREY: And I have to admit, that it was a young man that attended--my husband and my church, and he knew my mom. And he was like, "Oh, that woman--she was just a--life! So much force!"

KNOX: (laughs)

KNOX STOREY: "And so much love!" He says, and that's the reason why I had to go into social work myself today.

KNOX: (laughs)

KNOX STOREY: And he ended up years later, this center that she ran, he became the director of that center.

KNOX: Um-hm.

KNOX STOREY: And went off to do wonderful things himself. And I--

KNOX: --a lot of people--

KNOX STOREY: --this was--Yeah, and a lot of people that they were able to touch and helped them do so many great things and for their selves and their own families. And I--I often think that, how powerful that is, and my son was able to see that, because this young man took him to the center and took 00:43:00him around, and they were saying, "This Miss Knox's son!" And "Grandson!" And they started telling him stories of my mom, as well as my father. Those who knew my dad as well. And he came back with so much pride, that he was like, "Mom!" He says, "Poppy and Grandma--" and that's what they call my father, Poppy. "They were just awesome! I just, I'm so grateful that I got to hear these things! I know I heard it from you and all my aunts," and he says, "but just to be able to see this is, and hear it, I'm just totally touched by them both."

KNOX: Um-hm.

KNOX STOREY: And so, it was a great thing to see that of her, and to see them both in action.

KNOX: I thought of something too while she was talking, that when we would go to NAAC conferences, Mom made sure that--(laughs)--every child that was going would come to the house, and she would teach them about fine dining, and 00:44:00which fork to use--

KNOX: --and--(laughs)--which spoon, and how the things the table settings would be laid out. And so, she said--

KNOX STOREY: --proper etiquette--

KNOX: --"You have to know--" yeah, thank you. That's the words, proper etiquette. "You have to know the proper etiquette to be able to go--to the meetings." (laughs) You know? And that was her. So, she was that side of it. And then I now think about, sometimes my friends will laugh because, when they would call for me, or come by the house, and they said "Miss Knox, do you know where Jessica's at?" And she would always--(laughs)--look at them and go, "Behind the preposition."

(laughter)

KNOX: So, she had words like that, and she would always use, but that was the one I remember the most: "behind the preposition."

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: And they would go like, "Oh--" And they would know I got to change. (laughs) Okay.

GRIMES: So, did your mom do any of the fundraising for the Movement?

KNOX: Oh, yes. I'm sure.

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: (laughs) Yeah, I'm sure she did. She was the fundraiser, you 00:45:00know. She--she also collected for March of Dimes every year.

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: We had to go with her--

KNOX STOREY: --oh, yeah--

KNOX: --because she wanted us to know the importance of this and why she collected.

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: Because she said, "I've been blessed with four healthy children. I want to make sure that every child is okay."

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: And so, she, we had to walk with her and--

KNOX STOREY: --yup--

KNOX: --do the collections.

KNOX STOREY: I remember that.

KNOX: And so, yeah.

GRIMES: Did she plan meetings? Did she set them up? Schedule, or?

KNOX: Yes.

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: Yeah, she was his like secretary kind of person for him. She would--

KNOX STOREY: Yeah, she would write the letters.

KNOX: --It--right.

KNOX STOREY: Things like that. Correspondence.

KNOX: If they needed typing up, she would get somebody to type them.

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: She'd re-read them. You know, those kind of things, yeah. Or if anything that he wanted to say--

KNOX STOREY: --um-hm--

KNOX: --He'd dictate a speech to her and she would have it written up for him, and then he would take it and give the speech, you know. Yeah. Like I said, she was his rock.

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

GRIMES: Could your father have been the man he was and do the things 00:46:00he did without your mom, you think?

KNOX: No.

KNOX STOREY: No.

(laughter)

KNOX STOREY: Absolutely not.

KNOX: He would have say that too, you know.

KNOX STOREY: He used to say that.

KNOX: Yeah. No, he wouldn't have been.

KNOX STOREY: Yup. I think she gave him the freedom you know. And encouragement.

KNOX: That's a good one. Definitely the freedom to do it.

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm. Yup.

KNOX: Because he was free to, you know.

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: She believed in what he was doing.

KNOX STOREY: Exactly.

KNOX: And she believed in his cause, so she said, "I've stepped back. I'll take care of Vicky while you're going through this."

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: And so, like I said, Vicky and sometimes Wendy, were at home. Clarice didn't go much, but any time the car moved, I was in the car. I was his running partner. (laughs) I went with him.

KNOX-STOREY: Yeah.

GRIMES: So, let's talk about the March on Frankfort. What do you remember about the March on Frankfort?

KNOX: I--the organization of it. I remember going with him to a lot of the meetings where they were preparing for it, getting ready. I didn't get to sit in the meetings, but going with him, and I remember him giving some 00:47:00speeches and talking to the--the senators and things in Kentucky. They had a (clears throat) where they were talking to them about the importance of this, (clears throat) because Kentucky was kind of lagging behind and not wanting to pass any civil rights laws at all. And so, they would go and talk to them about that. I remember you know, him having a good part in the planning. I can't remember the people's name now, regrettably, but we had a lot of meetings in Louisville and Lexington that he went to attend, and different parts of Kentucky he would travel to and talk to people about that, coming and be a part of the march. (clears throat) And then I remember the day of the march, and how we all got on buses and we were coming down, and when we got to Frankfort, 00:48:00you know, we organizing and were carrying signs and banners and things, and I remember walking down, I think it was Main Street in Frankfort, leading up to the Capitol, and these ladies came out--Caucasian women--and they--(laughs)--had water. They didn't have water bottles back then, so she had cups of water. They had--I think they might have been sisters, even. And they were like, "Do you need water?" (laughs) And people would come up and get water from them. They were so sweet. And it was something we were not expecting at all. But it was just them. And maybe another neighbor on the street. And they would, if you had to use the bathroom and she would say, "You can come to my bathroom! Come and use the bathroom!" You know, and it'd make you realize--it made me realize that there are such beautiful people in this world.

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: And it helped me to understand that. So, as we continued on the march, and like I said, people of all nationalities, sizes, ages, you know, were on this march, and Martin gave his speech, and Jackie Robinson, and after it was over Dad made sure--because Clarice and Wendy and I had gone--that he got our hands, and took us up on stage to meet Jackie Robinson and Martin Luther King, and I just remember it was just powerful. Because Mom was very instrumental in getting us books that we had to know about our history when we were young--

KNOX STOREY: --um-hm--

KNOX: --and Jackie Robinson was one of the books that I had read, we had read. And so, it was powerful meeting him knowing what he had gone through in life.

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: And then meeting Martin Luther King was just amazing. Vicky said hers was meeting Roy Wilkinson. (laughs)

KNOX STOREY: Yup. I thought that was really cool.

KNOX: But meeting Martin, he was--you know, such a gentle man. And you could feel that spirit coming off of him of kindness and love, and I was very impressed with meeting him.

GRIMES: Did you all stand and talk to him? Did you--do you remember sitting on the Capitol steps? Or how did that--

KNOX: --oh no, we stood--

GRIMES: --look? You stood.

KNOX: We stood and talked.

GRIMES: Um-hm.

KNOX: Yeah, I mean you know the--everything was over by then and so, we stood and talked to him, and you know, just like, "Whoa, Dad knows him!" (laughs) And Benjamin Mays of--

GRIMES: --um-hm--

KNOX: --I don't know if you've heard of him--

GRIMES: --um-hm--

KNOX: --but he was a professor in Georgia at Morehouse, and that's how Dad met Martin through Benjamin Mays. And so, I remember him used to saying all the time that they had sat under a tree and talked. Benjamin Mays, Martin Luther King, and my dad.

GRIMES: Really.

KNOX: Um-hm.

GRIMES: Wow.

KNOX: Um-hm.

GRIMES: So, do you remember what he said to you at all, or?

KNOX: About the march?

GRIMES: Or anything when you met him. How old were you at that time, when you attended the march?

KNOX: Let's see, it was in 1964?

GRIMES: Um-hm.

KNOX: So, I was fourteen.

GRIMES: Fourteen, wow.

KNOX: Um-hm.

GRIMES: So, do you remember what he said to you at all, or?

KNOX: What Martin said to us?

GRIMES: Um-hm.

KNOX: Well, one thing I remember, he said, "Oh, y'all such pretty little girls." (laughs)

GRIMES: Um-hm.

KNOX: I remember that. And you know, he didn't say anything so much directly to us other than meeting us, you know. But just watching my dad talk to him, and talking to Jackie Robinson, and I was just so impressed that my dad was in a position to be able to talk to these people. You know, people that I had read about and knew about, you know. Seen on TV! (laughs) So, I was just impressed being in the presence of this greatness. Yeah.

GRIMES: Do you remember what Jackie Robinson said to you?

KNOX: Other than hello.

(laughter)

KNOX: Yeah. And then you know, I think Martin might have said 00:52:00something like, "You've got a good father," you know. And you know, but I don't recall--

GRIMES: --um-hm--

KNOX: --all the words that were said, but I just remember it was a very nice experience meeting both of them, you know, and they both were just really strong, powerful men. Their speeches were incredible.

GRIMES: Um-hm.

KNOX: I remember that. And touching.

GRIMES: Did you understand what the bill was about that they were trying to pass at that time?

KNOX: Yeah. I had full understanding of that, what was going on. I think that's something that white women don't understand.

GRIMES: Hmm.

KNOX: That before the signing of the Civil Rights Bill, they had very little rights--(laughs)--in this country. You know, they had the right of--being a Caucasian person in this country, but within their own nationality and space, they had no rights. Very limited. You know--

KNOX STOREY: Couldn't have a bank account.

KNOX: --Yeah--it was limited--in like some states you couldn't have a bank account, you could not own land, it had to be owned by your husband.

KNOX STOREY: Yup.

KNOX: They had like you know on the news and things, there was no white female anchors on the news. (laughs) I think the one that was, I can't think of her name right now, I think she was the first, and that was after the signing of the Civil Rights Bill. You know, they would--all the news people would be--you know, you could go to the bank. The--

KNOX STOREY: --tellers--

KNOX: --tellers were men. A lot of companies had men secretaries; you know. There were a few, but it was not very many. The library, you had to be an unmarried, or older female to work at the library! So, after the singing of the Civil Rights Bill, the person, people who benefitted the most from the signing of the Civil Rights Bill were white females. Yeah, they were able to 00:54:00integrate more into society, because they were also considered minority--what, what did they call it? People.

GRIMES: So, you're getting at the idea that we know today, that white women benefit the most from Affirmative Action.

KNOX: Most definitely.

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: Most definitely. And when they wanted to change the laws and stuff--(laughs)--I said, "You'd better watch out! Because it very well be possible that you don't have any rights anymore."

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm. That's good.

KNOX: And so, very limited rights. And so, but they knew that when they were working for the Civil Rights, they were fighting for the rights, as Vicki had mentioned, of all people! Even white females, because they had limited rights up until the signing of the Civil Rights Bill. And then, one of the things Kentucky was last at singing was the housing--fair housing law. They didn't want to sign that at all. (laughs) And so, [Ned] Breathitt, I think became governor, and he and my dad got together along with Lyman--that name came to--

GRIMES: Lyman T. Johnson?

KNOX: Yeah, yeah. And they all met with him, and he agreed to push it through and to sign the Civil Rights Bills. So, Kentucky didn't have fair housing rights until 1968.

GRIMES: Um-hm, um-hm.

KNOX: Yeah.

GRIMES: So, talk about the morning of you know, coming down to the march. Your father was head of the--was he head of the NAACP at this time?

KNOX: State president.

GRIMES: State president at this time?

KNOX: Yeah, he was the state president at that time.

GRIMES: So, who did you all come down with? Did you come on, did you come down with your church? With the--did the--NAACP organize?

KNOX: --I didn't--we didn't ride with him, I remember that.

GRIMES: Okay. Who got together the buses is what I'm, I guess I'm getting at. How did y'all--

KNOX: It was a lot of people involved in that, you know, so those meetings Vicky talked about? Those was the pre-planning for that. And so, I really don't know who you know like ordered the buses or, but I remember they were--

GRIMES: --you remember--

KNOX: --the regular buses that we used in the city. (??)

GRIMES: Do you remember where you left from? Like, where you caught the bus and?

KNOX STOREY: What part of town?

KNOX: I'm trying to think right now. It may have been around Lincoln Grant School, which was the Black school at that time. The buses were parked there and--

GRIMES: --do you remember how many buses?--

KNOX: I would say maybe about six left from this area. Yeah, about six of us. It was a whole lot of people they had organized to go, you know, and I remember a lot of our school kids went.

GRIMES: And this was a multi-racial crowd.

KNOX: Oh, yeah.

GRIMES: Um-hm.

KNOX: Yeah, yeah. Now, they didn't ride the particular buses that we were on, I don't remember that. You know, or the one I was on. It was just people from my community getting on the bus I was on, but I'm sure that they were there because generally they did, you know? But I don't remember. I was with a lot of kids my age, but. (laughs)

GRIMES: Do you remember who those kids were? Their names?

KNOX: Hmm. One of my best friends, her name is R. Jean Watts (??). She was on there with me. A lot of my friends. Kay Grant, Barbara Riley, Roger Bedford (??). I think Larry Andrews went. There were a lot of my school mates that went with us. And--so it was a whole bunch of us.

GRIMES: Did you have a sign?

KNOX: Yeah. We carried a--we had a big banner that we carried.

GRIMES: Do you remember what it said?

KNOX: Maybe "Civil Rights for All?" They--weren't wordy, you know. Something simple like that. Or "We March for Freedom." Those were some of the signs. "Freedom for All."

GRIMES: And what do you remember about Frankfort specifically that day? Do you remember the weather at all? Do you remember the Capitol?

KNOX: It was raining. (laughs) It was kind of a rainy day when we 00:58:00first started down there, and but by the time we got there, it had stopped raining. And--and it was cloudy, dreary kind of day. But I think by the time we got to the speeches it--the sun was trying to come out.

GRIMES: Hmm. Did--did the Capitol itself mean anything to you? The place? The building itself? Did it stand out to you at all, or a hold.

KNOX: I'm gonna say--I'm gonna say not at all, and the reason why I'm going to say that is because we were there so much--(laughs)--you know? So, it didn't mean much to me at that time. What was going on, because you know my mom and dad had lived there, of course, when I was a baby, and my sister Wendy was born there because Dad had come back from the military and was getting his education. So, you know, back and forth. We were always traveling in those 00:59:00areas. Especially with him during the Civil Rights Movement, we were always--or I was always somewhere like that, so that didn't mean anything to me. I was very aware. My mother and father took us to Kentucky State every year for Homecoming--(laughs)--you know?

KNOX STOREY: For sure.

KNOX: Made sure we--were were implanted that we were going to go to Kentucky State, and so that was our family school, and two of my sons even went there, so. Yeah so no, I wasn't impressed by the building. (laughs)

GRIMES: Okay. Any landmarks or anything that day? Do you know how--where you were standing as King spoke, or how far you marched or--?

KNOX: Well, we, let's see. The buses may have stopped like as far as Kentucky State and we marched down from there, and down those streets to--the 01:00:00Capitol, so it was a good little march, a little walk, from where I remember. From what I remember. Yeah. I just remember it being, we were joyful, excited, but at the same time a little afraid. I'm not going to deny that. I think we all were. But I was so proud of everybody that was around me, because they were strong and powerful at that time. I remember another lady, her name was Pat Humphries-Spahn (??), and she grew up to be kind of a organizer, that she was there and yeah. I didn't get to go to the reunion because I wasn't well, so I didn't get to go. But I remember her calling and talking to me about you know, her experience at that.

GRIMES: Um-hmm. So, you also attended the fifty-year reunion, is that right?

KNOX: No, that's why I said I didn't get to go.

GRIMES: Oh! I thought I had read something that said you did. Okay.

KNOX: No. I wasn't well.

GRIMES: Okay.

KNOX: I didn't go.

GRIMES: So--

KNOX: --yeah and Wendy was in Texas and Clarice was going through something when her daughter was sick during that time, yeah. And Vicky didn't go. (laughs)

KNOX STOREY: Of course, I wasn't at the first one--(laughter)--so. I was five.

KNOX: And I'd normally been the one to go--

KNOX STOREY: Right.

KNOX: --but I wasn't able to.

GRIMES: Um-hm.

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

GRIMES: Did your father speak that day?

KNOX: No, he was deceased by then.

GRIMES: No, no. I mean--I'm sorry--

KNOX: --oh, oh, did he speak--

GRIMES: --going back to then original March.

KNOX: Oh--

GRIMES: --I think he was on the program--

KNOX: I'm sure he was on the program. You know, like I said--

GRIMES: --I remember seeing his name--

KNOX: --Martin and Jackie Robinson kind of outed my dad that moment--(laughs)--so, yeah, I'm sure he did. Maybe introduced--I think he might have introduced Jackie Robinson. I know he introduced somebody.

GRIMES: Now, were you all members or was your father a member of the AOCR? Allied Organization-- --of Civil Rights?

KNOX: I don't think we were.

KNOX STOREY: We weren't.

KNOX: He might have been, but I do know for sure that from the time until we went to college maybe, he bought all of us a membership every year to NAACP--

KNOX STOREY: --oh yes. Yes;--

KNOX: --before Vicky could, you know, she may have been three when she--(laughs)--first got her first membership.

KNOX STOREY: Yeah.

KNOX: So, and then after our children were born, my children, anyway, they had NAACP memberships. They had made sure everybody had--(laughs)--NAACP memberships.

KNOX STOREY: Yeah, he definitely believed that for sure.

GRIMES: Um-hmm. Um-hmm. What do you think about Black Lives Matter today and the protests that are taking place today? You kind of hinted at it, saying that you know, still fighting for your children and your grandchildren to have those rights, so what do you think about the protests of today and can you compare them to the work that you and your father were doing back during the civil rights movement?

KNOX: I'm going to have a controversial answer to that.

GRIMES: Okay.

KNOX: Okay? To me, I'm tired of it. I don't see why--and I remember 01:03:00telling my dad that, back during that time--why are we asking human beings who are just like us, you know, for our rights? Why are we going to another human being and telling them, you know, "You need to start treating us nice." (laughs) I know that there's probably no other way right now in this country to get that, so I'm not against it, but it irritates me to think that I--sometime I see these little kids who were you know, our ages or Vicky's age, marching with their parents, and I was like then maybe when they have children or grandchildren, they still will be marching asking these same questions! You know, that's one reason I say love is powerful, and that it's going to take each of us 01:04:00who have decided to love, to invest in love, and to make sure that love dominates this world, and I know that right now, I would say it's at least fifty percent of us in this country, fifty percent of us in this world who feel as I do: I choose to love people. And I pray for--daily--everyone. You know? I think that Tamir Rice and Trayvon Martin when they were killed, and all of a sudden, I can remember not when it happened, but still they were talking about it when I was a little kid, the young man, I can't think of his name right now--

KNOX STOREY:--Emmett--

KNOX: Emmett Till. That when he died, and how he died, you know. And to me that reminds me of that. If you don't see that these are children? If you can't feel that passion and pain for this family that lost their child? The 01:05:00worst thing that Tamir Rice--not, is that his name?

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: --had was a--not Tamir Rice.

KNOX STOREY: Not, no, no. Trayvon.

KNOX: Trayvon Martin had was Skittles in his hand! You know? And the other little boy had a play gun. They didn't even give him a chance to say, "Put it down." You know? "Hold up your hands," or something. They just drove up on him and killed him. And then when I see the school shootings today, and parents saying, "I still need guns! I still need, want my guns!" I can remember one girl was killed in Florida and her father said, "Yeah, she was shot, but we need our guns." Like, you need your guns because you haven't learned to love. (laughs) That's how I feel. That's my opinion on that. And so, no I'm not against the marches.

KNOX STOREY: No.

KNOX: But I don't think they're going to benefit anybody, you know? Not really.

KNOX STOREY: Yeah, I--I basically believe same as she's basically saying as well, but I think also too, it goes a little bit deeper, and I think 01:06:00the deeper that it goes with, is that it's dealing with education. It's dealing with getting out and being vocal. It's getting--to the point that we're--the community I just moved to, you know I am the only Black person that's living there, and it's a gated community, but I'm getting out and I'm talking to my neighbors. I think that that's the key, is that we need to be able to break bread together. As my mother and father did, they opened the doors years ago to a couple that did not want to come into their home, as the story we was stating earlier. But when they left, they left with the understanding, "They just like us. They're people. And matter fact, they loved us." And I believe that that's the key, as she's stating. As my sister was stating. That love does conquer all. We know that it does. And I think that more--that we can be able to 01:07:00touch and to be able to communicate with and understand that when you see this Black young man, or if you see a white young man, they first is somebody's baby and that's what we got to understand. That could be my child, you know. And so, let's, let's look at that and stop looking at the color. Let's look at the fact that we are human beings, and that that's where I really do believe that needs to take place. And because when you're hearing all these stories, the news media want to create, is that this young Black boy was killed, and then they going to go on talk--not talk about how it really happened. Maybe mention a little bit, but then they want to bring up, well he has a, you know juvenile history record--

KNOX: --or his father had a record--

KNOX STORY: --Or his father or mother or whomever, or drugs was known to be in that house. Wait a minute. This child's passed away and he was brutally killed. Let's get back to what is really at hand, and I think that's, we're 01:08:00missing that as people. And I think because maybe might be social media is--is getting to the point that where everybody's got an opinion. It's okay to have an opinion, but do we really need to listen to everybody's opinion? Let's look at the facts.

KNOX: Well, like the other day, they were talking about how much money people are making off of preaching hate on social media.

KNOX STOREY: Oh, wow.

KNOX: I was amazed by that. That there's so much money to be made. So, then when you think about it, like I said, if I decide I want to love you and you want to love me and no matter what color you are, you know, what we look like to one another, we got to first see the God within each and every one of us.

KNOX STOREY: Yeah.

KNOX: That's my opinion on that.

KNOX STOREY: And that's what we were taught.

KNOX: Yeah. Yeah, you got to see beyond the skin color.

KNOX STOREY: Exactly.

KNOX: Let that be--let that be something else after you discover the person. You see the person within, you know? And when I was growing up, I would have been satisfied--very satisfied to have met these men and saw the beauty of 01:09:00these people. Not to necessarily share them with the entire world but share them with the people who felt as they felt, who loved as they loved. This is what I feel. That's the only thing that's going to change. I think the ugliness of this world will only change when the beauty of this world dominates. I can remember telling my children when somebody was acting bad, you know, and I said, "You know what? If everybody else acts good, they going to be like a sore thumb among y'all. And after a while everybody going to look at her, say like, 'Oh, how ugly. They're a sore thumb.'"

KNOX STOREY: Right.

KNOX: And the sore thumb will start wanting to act right, because they don't want to be on the outside. I had, I was starting a museum down here in Covington, and I unfortunately didn't get to complete that either, but that's how I met Lawrence and people in Frankfort, and one of the things that I had started this little game when kids would come to the museum. 01:10:00And I don't know if you remember that game where you know everybody tries to keep the other people out and they lock arms or something--

GRIMES: --was it Red Rover?--

KNOX: Red Rover.

(laughter)

KNOX: And they were keeping these other kids out and there was an all-white school that had come, and so they were--the kids who were locked out were mad and they got really angry. And then one little boy said, "Don't do this to me! I'm not a nigger! Honkey, don't do this to me!" And I remember the teachers were astonished, like, "Oh! What did he say?" And I said, "It's all right. It's okay." Because one thing, it's not so much for the children, but it's for the adults. You saw how quickly this child was hurt by being locked out of everybody else, and everybody else was determined. They got really determined: "He can't get in! We're not letting him in!" (laughs) You know? And I said, 01:11:00"This is the simplicity of discrimination. This is what it is. I haven't changed. I'm no different. I'm still a human being, but you're telling me I can't be one."

KNOX STOREY: Because the color of my skin.

KNOX: Right! Or whatever reason it is.

KNOX STOREY: Or my, my handicap or whichever case it may be.

KNOX: Yeah, size, whatever. You know, because even--you've mentioned handicap. Before the signing of the Civil Rights Bill, handicapped people had no rights!

KNOX STOREY: Exactly.

KNOX: You know? That's another group who's benefitted from the Civil Rights Bill. They had no rights! There was no--wheelchair ramps.

KNOX STOREY: Wheelchair ramps.

KNOX: There was no water fountains or toilets for them to use and things. People don't understand, we continue to discriminate and make differences when we should be making unification.

KNOX STOREY: Absolutely.

KNOX: Unification. We need to learn to love everybody. Yeah. And even 01:12:00if somebody's not loveable, that's who needs to be loved! (laughs)

KNOX STOREY: Right. Yeah, my model is that we all in this together.

KNOX: Um-hm.

KNOX STOREY: You know, can't we--

KNOX: --we should be! (laughs)--

KNOX STOREY: Yeah, we should be, but this is the thing is that we got to look at that we all are in this together. This planet is not going to help itself; we have to help it.

KNOX: Um-hm.

KNOX STOREY: And that's what we're here for. Is to love one another.

KNOX: Um-hm.

KNOX STOREY: Love does conquer all.

KNOX: Right. You know, and I--I want to say this even though it's not really a big part of what you were talking about, but my grandfather, he told us a long time ago that we were blessed because within us we had the four nations, you know. We have white, Black--

KNOX STOREY: --um-hm--

KNOX: --red, and yellow. And when I was doing our genealogy,

KNOX STOREY: Our DNA, yeah.

KNOX: Yeah. I found out it was true. (laughs)

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: You know, that we had within us. Filipino. I knew we already had Native American because my dad was, had a, within his, his--matter of fact 01:13:00the ones who were enslaved, people don't know that either, they were Apaches. So, in Texas the Apaches, many of the Apaches were enslaved because Boone and all of them-- not, was it Daniel Boone?

KNOX STOREY: Daniel Boone.

KNOX: Decided when they won the Alamo, they wanted the land. And so, they enslaved them, so they sold them to the slave owners, so we had Apache family that was sold into slavery. We had Black Africans, naturally, you know, and then we had a lot of Caucasian blood within us too, so.

KNOX STOREY: Melting pot. (laughs)

KNOX: Yeah, so, Grandaddy was right! And he said, "you know, you just--you can't hate anybody!"

KNOX STOREY: No, you can't.

KNOX: He said, "Because if you're hating somebody, you're hating a part of yourself." And that goes even deeper, because if we all come from one creator, then why are you hating somebody?

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: You know? (laughs) That doesn't make any sense to me. We all--you know, you learn it at church. They claim everybody's from the same creator.

GRIMES: Um-hm.

KNOX STOREY: Right.

GRIMES: Um-hm.

KNOX: But you hate somebody? That doesn't make sense to me.

KNOX STOREY: That's so true.

KNOX: Yeah. So, I don't think we have a right to hate anyone. I think that when somebody is acting ugly, you know like all the stuff, some of the stuff that's going on, we got to pray for that person.

KNOX STOREY: Absolutely.

GRIMES: Um-hm.

KNOX: We got to send them love. We got to encourage change among people, you know? Because to me, anytime a person rushing out and buying a gun--I know people, some do it for recreation and things, but I'm like, what are you afraid of? (laughs) You know, you tell me you're powerful. You're more powerful than me, even. But you fear me. So, I don't think you telling the truth. You know that I'm powerful, you know that you're powerful. We're all powerful, and we need to learn to embrace our power and embrace our ability to love, and that's what I feel.

GRIMES: Um-hm.

KNOX: Yeah. So. I don't know if I answered your question--

GRIMES: (laughs)

KNOX: --but that is what I feel. You know, like--

GRIMES: --yeah--

KNOX: --no. It will never change until we decide to make a change because we fought for civil rights for so long, and here we are today! You know? And we got to do it a different way.

GRIMES: What do you say to your children and grandchildren about your legacy, your father's legacy, your mother's legacy?

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

GRIMES: How have you kept that history alive and?

KNOX: Well, Vicky knows. I'm very adamant about that. I have, we're building up our own library, (laughs) our own research center, our own genealogy for our family and--and of course, this is why I do this. This is why I wrote for the--for the Northern Kentucky African American Encyclopedia, make sure he got in there. I--I feel very, I think it's very important not only for our family, but all families. And when I was doing, collecting family histories, 01:16:00I was amazed how many people have forgotten their family histories, and they--or you know, never knew. And I'm like, you need to find this out. Because I would bring to them sometimes knowledge that they didn't know. Like, "Oh, I didn't know that." I said, "You know, too many people--" and, excuse me if I'm wrong with saying this, but too many people want to talk about Uncle Tom's drinking problem, but not about Uncle John's historical contributions. (laughs) And you got to stop talking about the negative and make sure that the kids know about the positive. One of my friends, her mother used to make the best Kool-Aid, and I know you're like, "How do you make best Kool-Aid?" But she taught me, that you put a little water in the pitcher, and then you put in the Kool-Aid and--and stir it up, and then add more water, and it's going to be smooth. You know, and you put the sugar in there and then add more water.

GRIMES: (laughs)

KNOX: And I was like, I taught my children that! You know? And now my 01:17:00grandkids--you know, we don't make Kool-Aid anymore, but--(laughs)--we used to, and to me, I told her, I said, "You know, this is my third generation who follows your mother's tradition of making Kool-Aid!" And she laughed, but I said, "You think that's nothing. But that's important! Because you know, where you think it's not a major contribution, but that's something that people going to remember, because I told them your mother taught me how to do this." And this is what we need to do. I think every family needs to find out the positive things about their family, promote that and forget about the negative.

KNOX STOREY: Amen.

KNOX: Leave it alone, you know. Because what good is coming out of something that you constantly talking negative about, you know. It's just like, to me, enslavement.

GRIMES: Um-hm.

KNOX: Some people talk about slavery, and I've even had some people say, "When we were slaves--" You were not a slave! (laughs) You're eighteen! 01:18:00(laughs) You know? You were not a slave. But the thing is, our ancestors coming out of slavery, did not want to talk about slavery. (clapping for emphasis) And they build some powerful things, you know. When you look at places like Oklahoma, where they had a powerful Black community out there, they was all over the United States.

GRIMES: Um-hm.

KNOX: All over the United States. They don't talk about it. We have to start talking about what our communities did, what our families did, because like what I just told you. There were no drug problems when I was growing up. You know? There were no gangs. Those things just happened within the time that you know, I was reaching almost adulthood. And we didn't have that. I could go anywhere, and if I was acting bad, I was going to be told on before I got home. They'd call my mom and said, "You know, Jessica was down here doing this and that." And Mom be like, "Miss So-and-So told me--" (laughs) You know. So, we you know we looked out for our children. We looked out for our elderly. I can remember a 01:19:00lady, Miss Turpentine, who lived behind us. She was, when she was sick and her family had to go out of town, I spent the night with her! You know, I was maybe thirteen or something, but I took good care of her, you know? Because she was one of our elderly in our community, and we don't see that anymore. So, yeah, what you asked me--and like I said I may not be answering it quite the way that you wanted me to or, but--no. We begged too long for rights. We now have to say, "I have them. I have my rights, and I'm going to live like I have my rights." Because one thing I know for sure, in this lifetime, my almost seventy-two years, is that you become what you believe. You become who you say you are. And if we say that we are equal to everyone else, we're humans, then that's what you become. But if you constantly looking at another man to empower you? 01:20:00You will never have the power you want. Never. But that's my--.

GRIMES: But even, even in that, systemic injustice and racism exist.

KNOX: Um-hm, um-hm.

GRIMES: And so--

KNOX: --it does--

GRIMES: --is there still a role for protest today?

KNOX: Well, that's why I said, I'm not against it.

GRIMES: Um-hm.

KNOX: If that's what people want to do. But my thoughts are, what will you accomplish from it? I don't think we look that far; you know.

GRIMES: Um-hm.

KNOX: What are you going to accomplish from this protest? Who are you protesting to? Who are you asking to give you your rights, when you have your rights? You've got to be powerful enough to say, "I have my rights." And that's one thing I think that we learned from our grandfather. And our grandfather was a powerful man. He was a gentleman, never said anything. Whenever I was with my grandfather during the times when they would call Black men "boys" 01:21:00and stuff? When they saw my grandfather, they said either, "How you doing, Brown?" Which was his last name. Or, How are you Mr. Brown?" You know? I never heard anybody refer to my dad--my grandfather in any other way. And I would have to say, that it was pretty much like that with my mom and dad. (laughs) You know, they had some incidents, and you will have some incidents in life, but you have a choice to say, "That's not me." My dad actually already said that we would not have those experiences for the rest of our lives, and that his grandchildren and great-grand--his descendants--would not have this. Things are not perfect now, but I look at our loved ones and I see perfection. I see happiness, you know. And to me, that is a goal for our family, is to be happy and to love one another. You know, as I tell Vicky all the time, the 01:22:00most important thing in this world is to be happy. (laughs) Find a reason to, and if somebody--and to me, if I run into somebody racist and they don't want to deal with me? I don't want to deal with you! (laughs) I can move on from you. I got too many people that I meet that want to love and be happy, you know of all races. So, if you--I don't care if you are, you know, African American or you're Caucasian, or you're a Native American or you know whatever; if you don't want to meet this criteria for me: happiness, love, I don't want to meet you. I don't want to deal with you.

GRIMES: Um-hm. I'm going to go--

KNOX: --that's the new movement--(laughs)--

GRIMES: I want to go back just a little bit.

KNOX: Okay,

GRIMES: Do you remember what it was like after the Civil Rights Bill was passed? Do you remember what it felt like to be able to, you know, try on clothing or eat at certain restaurants, or your father's response to you know the passage of the Bill at all?

KNOX: Oh, yeah. We celebrated. I do remember that. We had a big 01:23:00celebration at home. You know, it was like somebody had won the Major Leagues, or something. (laughter) You know, were jumping, we were excited. It was a great time. He had accomplished what he had set out to do. And so, you know I was--we were proud of him. He was proud of himself, because that was his goal, and he had accomplished it, so you know when he was very, quite happy. I know when we were growing up, and this was--my dad's rules; we did not eat in Covington. We didn't go to the movie theaters in Covington. And we would be in trouble if we had, you know. (laughs) Because he would take us to Cincinnati, because Cincinnati was integrated. So, if we were going any place, we had to go to Cincinnati. He always said, "I'm not spending my money where I'm not accepted!" (laughs) Which made sense. But one time we did, and--(laughter)-- I 01:24:00can remember we had just moved here. And like I told you, we didn't know about segregation from where--because--you know, was funny coming from a deeper part of the South to the North, northern part of Kentucky, it was more--it appeared to be more segregated because there was more for Black people to do in Louisville. My sisters and I, Clarice and Wendy, Mom gave us our allowances and we walked downtown. And we went to Woolworth's and so, I was a hungry little kid, and I went to the counter, and I said, "Come on. Let's go get some juice. Grape juice." And so, we sat down there, and nobody waited on us and everything, and I said, "Excuse me! Can we have some grape juice?" And the lady kept walking past and things. (laughs) So, I finally grabbed her on the arm, and I said, "Did you hear me? I said we want some grape juice." And so, she went and 01:25:00talked to her manager and evidently the manager said, "Go ahead and give it to her." But she put it in cups, not glasses, and gave it to us, and we drank that. And we were all excited--(laughs)--and talking and everything, so after we left, Mom had taught us to leave a little tip and you know, and we left and left her a tip. Came up the street and White Castles was up the street and I said, "Let's get some White Castles!" (laughter) So, we went in there and we ordered White Castles, and they bagged them up. And I said, "Why? But either (??) these people are hard of hearing or something." And so, we opened up the bag and sat at the counter--(laughs)--and we're eating our White Castles, and when we got home, people in the community had called and said, "They gone lynch your girls. They gone kill your girls. They down there eating in White Castles--and Woolworth's." And Mom, that was the first time she had explained to us why we couldn't do that, and that you know how people saw us as niggers. And I don't 01:26:00know if she actually used that word with us, but it, you know, it soon became apparent to me that this is what, how society saw us. So, that was it, you know. So, then you'd think that now I could walk down to Woolworth's, and I could sit at the counter, and I could eat. You know, but it was different for me because having--participated in--our marches and things, I'd had a lot of those experiences--(laughs)--you know? I knew what it felt like, some of the depth of it, and so you know, I celebrated too in what I felt that I had done. You know, I had participated, been a part of, so it was not--it was a good thing, like I said. We celebrated like we had won the--you know a national game or 01:27:00something, but it soon went away and--

GRIMES: Why so?

KNOX: Because things truly, truly didn't totally change. Like I said, we had Bills to protect us. Bills to ensure that we could you know, get a job and things like that, and oh, that's another thing that people didn't realize before the signing, because I have worked at the job service, and they had it on the application. Like, "What was your religion?" You know, "What was your mother's nationality?" Because they were looking. Like, if you had a Jewish company, and if you weren't--didn't have a Jewish name and your mother didn't have a Jewish name, they knew you weren't Jewish, so they could discriminate. Or Catholic. You know, they were looking for those things; what religion you were. So, that's why if there's a--if there's a real legacy for the marches and for the March on Frankfort and everything is that people don't realize how much 01:28:00racism, sexism, it eliminated in this country. People aren't aware of it. Yeah. So, if you say what were we proud of? What did my dad celebrate? What did I celebrate? That was the legacy of his work, and the work of all people like Martin and things. They knew what they were doing. Not only were they making it better for African Americans, they knew they were making it better --for what Vicky had said, for all people.

GRIMES: Um-hm.

KNOX: All people. So, that was the importance of that, you know? And--and I'm proud of that. I'm proud that I participated in that. So, if those marches for Black Lives Matter make it that way, I see it as wonderful. But if it's just like making a focus--see, that's why I would I love for it to be All Live Matter--(laughs)--in some ways. And it'd be truthful, you know? Because one thing that you know for sure: if a Black person, you talk to some 01:29:00Caucasian people, and even some Black people, and say, "Black Lives Matter," they don't want to hear that. And then they say, "Well, All Lives Matter!" Then tell me that a Black life matters. They won't tell you that.

GRIMES: Um-hm.

KNOX: Because they don't mean it. (laughs) It doesn't mean anything to them. They're saying All Lives Matter because they saying, "My life matters! But not yours." And that's one thing people haven't realized is, that that movement is just segregating more people, where the Civil Rights Movement it appeared that way, but in actuality it was integrating everybody. It really was. That's the importance of the Civil Rights Movement. That's the importance of the marches, and that's the important of Martin and Medgar, who gave their lives for this. And so many others. And that was the important of my dad, because like I said to start off the interview, Dad said, "If I could fight for this country 01:30:00and keep this freedom in this country, then I can fight for the freedom, my freedom and the freedom of my children and my descendants." That's why he fought. That's why he did what he did.

GRIMES: Talk about your father's passing.

KNOX: Oh-- Well, what do you really want to know? (laughter)

GRIMES: I don't know, I just feel led to ask about his passing--

KNOX: --okay--

GRIMES: --and what that was, how that was for the family and his final work, or you know, when did he retire from the NAACP or--

KNOX: He wasn't very active in that, you know--

KNOX STOREY: --the later--

KNOX: --around that time in his life--

KNOX STOREY: --later in life.

KNOX: Yeah. Well, I know like I said, he was married to Mom for fifty-one years and when Mom passed, it was hard for him.

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: Very difficult. He did finally get married again, but he wasn't 01:31:00married very long. Excuse me. On her, on the date of her death he actually had a stroke, and--

KNOX STOREY: --which was--

KNOX: March the fourth.

KNOX STOREY: March, and it was like four years--

KNOX: --three or four years--

KNOX STOREY: --four years later--

KNOX: He had just gotten married, and but he had a stroke. And before he had a stroke, he told me that--he asked me to come and get his wife and take her out because he was mourning Mom and he didn't want her to see that, you know. And he was having a really hard time. And so, he'd just been with that woman you know--(laughs)--that he loved so much. He even insisted that if we did anything wrong--talking back, getting smart with her, anything like that, he'd always say, "That's Miss Alice."

KNOX STOREY: (laughs)

KNOX: "That's my wife. My woman. You do not talk back to Miss Alice." So, we knew we were in trouble--(laughs)--and because he loved her so much. 01:32:00And they loved one another. And so, anyway when he, he passed, then we got a lot of nice letters from different organizations and people. You know, same thing with my mom. The funeral was packed. Her funeral was packed.

KNOX STOREY: It was a beautiful service.

KNOX: Yeah.

KNOX STOREY: Well, one thing though is that he had the stroke--had a stroke, aneurism, and a heart attack on March the fifth, the very next day after the anniversary of her death, which was--he lived eight months later, though.

KNOX: Um-hm.

KNOX STOREY: He didn't die until eight months later.

KNOX: Um-hm.

KNOX STOREY: And I think that was a blessing for all of us, because that was not something that--none of us, you don't ever prepare for anybody passing, but we were able to be with him and help him to build back up, and he was really determined. But I think he finally just got tired, and he was ready 01:33:00to go. The day of his death, we all were able to--

KNOX: --be there--

KNOX STOREY: --be at his home and be with him, and to be around his bedside when he passed away. And he looked around, and he--like he was counting, to make sure that we--

GRIMES: --(laughs)--

KNOX STOREY: --all were there. And we all talked about that. And we said, "Dad, if you're ready, it's okay." You know, and he went on home. But--

KNOX: --yeah, I think he waited for my husband to come in--

KNOX STOREY: Um-hm.

KNOX: He was the last one to get there, and he pulled him down and kissed him, and then he died.

KNOX STOREY: But--and he wasn't able to speak due to the illness that he ended up having, the stroke. But he communicated with us. More ways than one. And it was really touching to see that. Even my husband went over and talked with him--

KNOX: --um-hm. Earlier--

KNOX STOREY: --he had to be-- earlier that day. He had to be with our 01:34:00children later on that night when he passed away that evening, but he said, "I could tell he was in good spirits." And he you know, he held his hand, and he had a good grip, and he said and Mike, my husband, was able to read to him, and gave him some scriptures and encouragement with him, and he says, "I know Poppy's going to be all right. He knows he's going home." And I said, "Yeah. Yeah." And so, he knew he lived well, and he loved all of us.

GRIMES: How old was he when he passed?

KNOX: Seventy-eight.

KNOX STOREY: He was seventy-seven.

KNOX: Seventy-eight.

KNOX STOREY: Seventy-eight. He'd just turned seventy-eight that August, and he passed away that September, the next month.

KNOX: October. (laughs)

KNOX STOREY: Nope. Excuse me. October. I'm going to get it together.

KNOX: (laughs)

KNOX STOREY: October.

KNOX: Yeah.

GRIMES: Thank you.

KNOX: But you know, sometimes those men died early like that. You look at Jackie Robinson, all of them, there's a lot of stress. (laughs)

GRIMES: Um-hm. Yeah, I don't think a lot of people realize that 01:35:00Doctor King was thirty-nine when he passed.

KNOX: Right.

GRIMES: Malcolm X was also thirty-nine--

KNOX STOREY: --um-hm--

KNOX: --right--

KNOX STOREY: --um-hm--

GRIMES: --when he passed. You know, so.

KNOX: Um-hm. Stressful. And it still is. It's stressful.

HAY: I have one question.

KNOX: Um-hm.

HAY: We interviewed Jim Embry, and you mentioned him.

KNOX: Um-hm.

HAY: That you were both in the chapter here.

KNOX: Um-hm.

HAY: Can you tell us a little bit about Jim Embry?

KNOX: Oh, my. (laughter) Jim was a strong--and still is--a strong, powerful young man. Great speech-giver. I think he admired my dad a lot. He came around the house a lot. But of course, he had interest in his daughters too. (laughter) But, he was just a good human being, and still is a good human being. Yeah, and I think that he was outstanding leader, you know. He was. I don't 01:36:00know if he's doing any of that type of thing now. Last time I saw him he was very involved in the environment and things. But Jim was just a go-getter, determined young man. And like hung with my dad a lot during that time. Yeah.

HAY: . Thank you.

KNOX: Um-hm.

HAY: And we've asked a lot of people if they remembered any of the songs or the singing at the march.

GRIMES: (laughs) KNOX: Oh, I'm not going to be able to sing it.

HAY: Do either of you?

KNOX: Of course. (laughs)

KNOX STOREY: Yeah, I was going to say, I rem--

KNOX: --not going to let anybody turn me--

KNOX STOREY: --around--

KNOX: -around, turn me around, turn me around. I'm not a good singer, so I'm not going to put you through that.

GRIMES: (laughs)

KNOX: And then of course the Black National Anthem--

KNOX STOREY: --right--

KNOX: --was sung at every meeting.

GRIMES: Um-hm.

KNOX STOREY: We Shall Overcome.

KNOX: We Shall Overcome, yeah. Those are the two right there that I remember. But those were the two most powerful and impacting to me.

KNOX STOREY: Oh, yeah. And I would say that that was one of the 01:37:00things that I loved. Because I always would be with them going to meetings, and being the fact that I was the youngest, and the baby, that it was interesting that I always wanted to look forward to that ending of the meeting. Not so much that the meeting to be over, but I wanted to sing. (laughter) I wanted to do the singing and the closing of the meeting, and we would all embrace and hold hands together.

KNOX: Um-hm, um-hm. Yeah, we just kind of swayed back and forth.

KNOX STOREY: Swayed, yup. And that part right there was like, "Oh man!" And I know now I was feeling the love and the energy--

KNOX: --um-hm--

KNOX STOREY: --because everybody was giving that off to one another.

KNOX: Um-hm.

KNOX STOREY: And I was waiting for that. You know. At each meeting, I always can remember saying to Mom and Dad, "Are we going to sing at the end?" You know. And not knowing that those songs were going to be so instrumental in my life later on.

KNOX: Um-hm.

KNOX STOREY: Yeah, I loved the--loved that.

KNOX: Yeah.

HAY: Thank you.

GRIMES: Thank you all so much.

KNOX STOREY: Oh, we thank you.

KNOX: Thank you, for wanting us to do this--

KNOX STOREY: --yes-

KNOX: --and we appreciate being able to leave this legacy.

GRIMES: Um-hm.

KNOX STOREY: Most definitely.

KNOX: Thank you.

[End of interview.]