Interview with Sari Nienaber, May 23, 2022

TANAKA: Okay. I think this is okay. Um, okay. Today is May 23rd, 2022. And, um, my name is Keiko Tanaka. I'll be doing the interviewing today and my interviewer-- I'd like you to give full name, legal name.

NIENABER: Okay.

TANAKA: Go ahead.

NIENABER: My name is --------(??) Nienaber. Or short, I'm usually called Sari Nienaber.

TANAKA: Okay. So, tell me a little bit about yourself, um, what you do and then how...uh, yeah. What you do and who you are.

NIENABER: Um, I am a mother of two, um, 25 and 17-year-old, um, 00:01:00children. And, uh, my occupation is, I am a product development scientist for one of the largest food company, uh, in the U.S. I have been with the company for around seven years now, but I have been in the industry for, oh, 14, 15 years.

TANAKA: Wow. And then, um, you been living in Lexington all this time or--?

NIENABER: I have been living in Lexington for five years.

TANAKA: Oh, okay.

NIENABER: Uh, prior to that, I was living in Chicago for about 15 years.

TANAKA: Wow.

NIENABER: Um, and before that, um, we live in Columbus, Ohio. I was in school in Columbus, Ohio, um, for about five years. So, yeah, I've been here for quite some times.

TANAKA: So, you've been in the United States, so total of 25 years, am I correct?

NIENABER: Um, plus the two years that I did my master's way back at University of Wisconsin-Madison.

TANAKA: Oh, yeah. That's right. That's right. Okay. So, you came for the first time to the United States for the master's program, am I correct? To Wisconsin.

NIENABER: Right. Yeah.

TANAKA: And then went back?

NIENABER: And then I went back to Indonesia for, um, about six years.

TANAKA: Oh, okay.

NIENABER: Yeah.

TANAKA: So, tell me about where you're fr-- your home in Indonesia.

NIENABER: Uh, I am from Yogyakarta in middle Java. It is a, um, uh, the cultural center, uh, of Java. There is a, um, palace with a sultan that is 00:03:00still in power, uh, today, but it is also the center of education. Uh, Universitas Gadjah Mada is one of the oldest university in Indonesia, one of the largest too. Um, my father was a professor at the university. My mother, she is also--she's retired now. She is also a professor, uh, at a different university, the, uh, ISI Institute [inaudible 00:03:37] Indonesia, which is the art institute of Indonesia. But, um, both of them are architects.

TANAKA: Oh, wow.

NIENABER: Yeah. My father, he, um, focused becoming an urban designer.

TANAKA: Wow. Wow.

NIENABER: And my mom sticks with the interior design.

TANAKA: Oh, what a combination! One to work on outside and the other one working inside. Yeah. And then Yogyakarta is such a beautiful place and its 00:04:00perfect place. So, tell me how you end up being in the United States.

NIENABER: Um, so I -- after I graduated college, I worked, uh, as a faculty member at the Bogor University, agriculture university in Bogor. And, uh, after one year I was sent to come, um, to the U.S. to get my master's.

TANAKA: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So, it was sponsored by the government, correct? Or university?

NIENABER: By the university.

TANAKA: Oh, okay. Okay. Okay.

NIENABER: It's work bank at that time.

TANAKA: Oh, okay. Okay. Okay.

NIENABER: Mm-hmm.

TANAKA: So then in Wisconsin-Madison, correct?

NIENABER: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That was the, um, first time when I came to the U.S.

TANAKA: Okay. Okay. Cold. Very cold medicine, Wisconsin. (laughs)

NIENABER: Yes. Yes. (laughs)

TANAKA: So, what was it like?

NIENABER: Um, you know, when you come from, um, you know, a developing country and you are accepted to come to, uh, the U.S., you don't really look -- I did not look at how the weather's going to be. And to me it's just opportunity.

TANAKA: Yeah. Yeah.

NIENABER: Um, so, whatever the weather is going to be, you know, I'll deal with it later. (laughs)

TANAKA: But when you saw first snow, probably in September, October, what was it like?

NIENABER: Um, it was exciting and not exciting at the same time. (laughs) My first winter, they have a, um, blizzard, like the biggest blizzard in the last 20 years, the university was closed for the first time.

TANAKA: What was the year?

NIENABER: 1987.

TANAKA: 1987. I was in Michigan back then. I cannot remember hearing about that though. Okay. Good. Wow.

NIENABER: So, everybody was saying, you know, "Don't go out. Stay in your room."

TANAKA: Okay. Okay.

NIENABER: "Too cold, too slippery, too dangerous."

TANAKA: Okay. Okay. Wow. And then, so then you went back and then for six years later, what brought you out back to the -- I think you first went to, uh, Columbus, right?

NIENABER: Uh, yes. Um, so, what brought me back? I was planning to continue with my PhD.

TANAKA: Oh, okay.

NIENABER: Yeah. And, um, um, I went to Ohio State for that.

TANAKA: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

NIENABER: Yeah.

TANAKA: What was it like to transition from, you know, Wisconsin, then six year back, and then now kind of coming back for the PhD?

NIENABER: Um. Huh. Looking back, um, uh, it wasn't something that is traumatizing or, you know, um --

TANAKA: It was a smooth transition?

NIENABER: It was a smooth transition. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Maybe also partly because the second time I came here, I was married with a 18-month-old child. But, you know, the university -- my daughter was at the daycare at the university, taking care... So, I was able to focus on my study.

TANAKA: School study. Yeah. So, you met your husband in Indonesia?

NIENABER: In Madison.

TANAKA: Oh, you met him in Madison. Oh my God (laughs). So, you had a long-distance relationship for a while?

NIENABER: Yes.

TANAKA: Okay. Oh, wow. That's tough. So, this Ohio State, was it also 00:08:00university sent you or you have to pay for it?

NIENABER: Um, the, uh, arrangement at that time is that, uh, the university is going to cover my first year and then my advisor was going to pick up, you know, the rest, take me as a graduate research assistant.

TANAKA: Research assistant.

NIENABER: Right. Uh, however, after three months that was when the, uh, economic -- um, uhm, what is it?

TANAKA: Is it about 2008?

NIENABER: Uh, it was--

TANAKA: --No.

NIENABER: No.

TANAKA: It cannot be.

NIENABER: No, 1995, 1996.

TANAKA: Oh, 95', 96'. Okay.

NIENABER: Yeah. Yeah. That first... Yeah. Mm-hmm. So, that, uh, the money that came, um, in Rupiah, it was -- the value went down--

TANAKA: --Went down.

NIENABER: -- very quickly. So, my advisor, you know, pick up my, my 00:09:00stipend and everything earlier than planned.

TANAKA: Okay. Wow. Hm. Wow. So, what was it like? I mean, of course you already went to Wisconsin as an international student. And so, by the time you come back from Ohio State, then you kind of knew what to expect. But what was it like to be international student in Madison? And then later on Ohio. Well, you are married. So technically speaking, you are not international student, are you? The second time.

NIENABER: No.

TANAKA: Right.

NIENABER: Yeah. Yeah.

TANAKA: Yeah. So, what was it like, you know, that experience of being an international student at Wisconsin with the F1 visa versus now you are coming here as basically with a green card, right?

NIENABER: Uh, the second time I was also, um--

TANAKA: Were you still F1?

NIENABER: Yes.

TANAKA: Oh, okay.

NIENABER: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

TANAKA: Okay. So, what was it like?

NIENABER: Or was it J-1?

TANAKA: Oh, maybe J-1.

NIENABER: J-1. Yes. Yes. I was J-1. Um, being an international student.? Well, when I was in Madison, I was very lucky because at that time, um, the program is not individual but it's organized by MUCIA, M-U-C-I-A. So, they are responsible for I don't know how many, um, students coming from Indonesia to study in Wisconsin, for instance. I have my, um, MUCIA advisor who helps me with, you know, settling in the country, opening up my bank account, getting my driver's license, you know, um, finding apartments, things like that. Um, so, 00:11:00in a way that makes it easier than if you just come as an individual, because you have this team of people who are assisting you finding health insurance.

TANAKA: Sure. Yeah. Those logistic--

NIENABER: Right.

TANAKA: -- More about how to live in the United States part.

NIENABER: Right.

TANAKA: Yeah.

NIENABER: Yeah.

TANAKA: That's a tough one. Yeah. How was your English back then?

NIENABER: Um, actually, my English back then was already, you know, compared to the average, it was already pretty good.

TANAKA: Good? Okay.

NIENABER: Because my father actually, he also went to UW-Madison--

TANAKA: Oh, wow.

NIENABER: -- to do, uh, his master's.

TANAKA: Right.

NIENABER: So, both my parents, they speak English.

TANAKA: Okay.

NIENABER: After they came back from Madison, you know, we always have visitors coming from the U.S. to Yogyakarta, either to, you know, be a 00:12:00university visitors or just visiting as tourists. And they always, you know, come to the house. We always take them around. So, I'm used to listening to English, and we took also English lessons on the side besides from the school.

TANAKA: Mm-hmm.

NIENABER: Yeah. So, in a way I was already kind of prepared.

TANAKA: Okay. More prepared. Okay.

NIENABER: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

TANAKA: How about --Did you have to assist other Indonesian students who came with you?

NIENABER: Um, yes, um, I did. And, um, you know, um, a lot of time, uh, the male students, um, they, they don't know how to cook, they don't know how to, um, you know, kind of be self-sufficient.

TANAKA: Sufficient. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. (laughs)

NIENABER: Yeah. Yeah. So, kind of have to teach them a little bit about, you know, cooking simple meals and doing laundry and--(laughs)

TANAKA: Really?

NIENABER: Yes.

TANAKA: I did not realize that the -- I thought that many, even the male students from Indonesia, since they go to college and then don't they have to live in a dorm and be self-sufficient?

NIENABER: Um, but, you know, you don't have to cook because there's always this little, little --

TANAKA: --Little canteen. Yeah.

NIENABER: Little canteen or you know, you, can buy your food from, and you have this laundry, uh, services. Yeah.

TANAKA: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So, you spent five years in Columbus and then you moved to Chicago.

NIENABER: Correct.

TANAKA: And then you were there for 15 years. So, what was it like 00:14:00moving from -- I mean, this is a major, big city. Chicago is one of the largest cities, uh, in the United States. What was that transition kind of like?

NIENABER: Uh, um, it was actually, for me personally, um, it was exciting. (laughs) Because, um, when I work in Bogor, you know, uh, we, uh, -- I live -- Bogor is only an hour away from Jakarta, the capital. So, a lot of time, you know, on the weekend, we'll go to Jakarta and go to, uh, concert, go to the museum. And also, in Yogyakarta because my mother worked for the art institute. We were always exposed to, uh, cultural things, exhibition by the student. Like here, you know, the Singletary [Center for the Arts], you can come anytime, there's students, uh, you know, seniors playing their piece for their 00:15:00final, um, concert, so, um, which is, you know, not much available in Columbus. So, going to Chicago, I was like, "Oh, yes. Now I can start going to this again."

TANAKA: Right. So, that's when you start working for this company?

NIENABER: No. Well, yeah. Uh, I was working for a different company.

TANAKA: Company. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. So then, by then, your daughter was already probably about elementary school age.

NIENABER: Yes.

TANAKA: And then your son was born in Chicago then?

NIENABER: Yes.

TANAKA: Okay. Okay. So, you, with the two children, and then you are working full time?

NIENABER: Um, no. I never actually work full time.

TANAKA: Oh, okay.

NIENABER: I work, uh, mostly part-time. Three days. Three days a week.

TANAKA: Okay.

NIENABER: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I was fortunate that we were able to do that.

TANAKA: Okay. Okay. Okay. And that was your -- you and your husband decide that's how you want it.

NIENABER: Right.

TANAKA: Okay. Good. Good. Good. So then, how did you move-- end up coming to Lexington?

NIENABER: Um, job change.

TANAKA: Oh yeah?

NIENABER: Yeah.

TANAKA: For your husband?

NIENABER: My husband's job change. Um, and um, I was able to stick with the company where I work, uh, for in Chicago. Just a different role. So, you know, I no longer have to-- Because when you're doing product development, you need to work in a lab, in a pilot plant, going to the plant, doing plant trials. But because I'm now in Kentucky, I cannot do that anymore.

TANAKA: Sure.

NIENABER: I'm now doing more of documentations.

TANAKA: Oh, okay. Okay. So, you work remotely?

NIENABER: Correct.

TANAKA: For the last five years.

NIENABER: Mm-hmm.

TANAKA: Even before very few people actually working remotely.

NIENABER: Yes. Yes.

TANAKA: Oh my God. How did you do that? Did you use Zoom or what did you use?

NIENABER: Yes. Yes. Um, well, at that time it was Skype, but it's similar.

TANAKA: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Similar, yeah.

NIENABER: It's similar. You know, of course, at the beginning, people are a little bit skeptical about, "Are you really -- When you're saying you're working 40 hours, do you really work 40 hours?" But after the, um, pandemic actually, you know, people realize it is possible. And at least for me, um, I can work more efficiently when I work from home.

TANAKA: Yeah. Yeah.

NIENABER: Because I don't hear the chatters, people are stopping by at the cubes and trying to talk.

TANAKA: Yeah, that's true. Yeah, that's true.

NIENABER: Um, but then, you know, we are social human being, social person.

TANAKA: Right.

NIENABER: That is what's lacking, you know, this -- because sometimes 00:18:00when you are in a location, you go out to lunch together, you, you know, do somebody's birthday and, you know, somebody's bringing cupcakes and it's just celebrate. That's gone.

TANAKA: So, did you have to go in every once in a while?

NIENABER: Um, at the very beginning, because I was just transitioning, I have to go once a month still. And then when I start doing the documentation, it was just once a year we have a gathering.

TANAKA: Wow. Wow. So, did you know the people who are working in that same unit?

NIENABER: Uh, yes. Um, a lot of them are also previously, you know, doing the same thing I did and just switching to this role. Um, and then, we 00:19:00meet once a year.

TANAKA: Sure.

NIENABER: So, and now we are so used to meeting in Zoom.

TANAKA: Right. Right. Right.

NIENABER: So, we still keep that.

TANAKA: Right. And then, do you maintain this part-time status at your workplace?

NIENABER: Um, at one point I was full-time, but now I'm just four days because of all this.

TANAKA: Right. Right. Right. For the move. Okay. Yeah. So, you are moving to Kalamazoo, Michigan?

NIENABER: Correct.

TANAKA: Yeah. So, what was it like now coming from Chicago, which is a major metropolitan in the United States and coming to Lexington, which is kind of more similar to Columbus and Madison, Wisconsin, it's university town. What was the biggest challenges?

NIENABER: The biggest challenge. Let's see. Um, um, I find living in 00:20:00Lexington actually very, um, very nice because, uh, the city is not, um -- Well, when I was living in Chicago, you know, I did not live in Chicago, I did not live in the city. I live in the suburb.

TANAKA: Suburb. Yes.

NIENABER: Right? So, everything -- If we want to do something, we have to drive far away. You know, everything is an hour away and very expensive. Coming back here, it's like 20 minutes, you already get to your destination.

TANAKA: Right.

NIENABER: Um, actually, almost everything is available here, you know.

TANAKA: Right. Right. Right.

NIENABER: If you look for it. Cultural events, uh, the university offers tons of events. I think the community also.

TANAKA: Right.

NIENABER: Lexington parks. Um, so, yeah, I mean, actually I really, 00:21:00uh, like Lexington.

TANAKA: So, when you move to the different places, what do you do to make sure you make new friends?

NIENABER: Um, see the thing is that, you know, when I live in these different cities, it's different phase of my life.

TANAKA: Sure.

NIENABER: Right? When I was in Columbus, Ohio, um, I was focused on my study. So, my husband was the one who's kind of doing the social, um -- what is it? -- engagement for the family. So, I just follow whatever. It's like, 00:22:00"Okay. This weekend we are going to the zoo or we going to this festival." And then when we are in Chicago, the life now evolves around the children.

TANAKA: Right.

NIENABER: So, my friends mostly, besides from friends from work, they are parents of my children's--

TANAKA: Children. Yeah.

NIENABER: --friend, you know, who we get to know. Um, and then when I'm here, I only have one who's also already old enough, um, then it's my job to find my own friends.

TANAKA: Right.

NIENABER: Yeah. So that's when I, you know, reach out to the Balinese Gamelan. I got involved in the salsa center.

TANAKA: Right.

NIENABER: Mm-hmm.

TANAKA: Okay. Yeah.

NIENABER: Um, I am actually also quite active, um, volunteering at the Food Chain.

TANAKA: Oh, Food Chain. Okay. Yeah.

NIENABER: Um, and then, during the pandemic, because everything is 00:23:00closed and all this volunteering work is stopped, I was still able to do some work at the Raven Run.

TANAKA: Oh, okay.

NIENABER: Um, because I asked them, you know, I want to do something and they said, "Well, if you can work by yourself, you can help us remove the invasive plants."

TANAKA: Oh, wow.

NIENABER: So, I come once a week and cut up their honeysuckle.

TANAKA: Good for you. That's a lot of work actually.

NIENABER: Yes. But again, you know, I work from home.

TANAKA: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

NIENABER: So, I need to find something else outside.

TANAKA: That's right. That's right. Yeah. And then, then when you're in Chicago, probably children are still young, and so you are more involved in their schools and then--

NIENABER: Or sports activity.

TANAKA: And then whatever.

NIENABER: Yes. Yes.

TANAKA: But here, your daughter is already old enough and your son, 00:24:00it's like high school and--

NIENABER: Right.

TANAKA: Okay. Yeah. Okay. Wow. That's interesting --so, tell me about your involvement with all those different community organizations. Now, were you at all associated with Indonesian community in Lexington?

NIENABER: Mm, no.

TANAKA: Not all. Okay. Yeah.

NIENABER: Yeah.

TANAKA: There is quite a bit of people, but I'm not quite sure whether there's organization or--

NIENABER: Yeah. I'm also not sure. Um, you know, and because I'm also working full time, I -- for some reason I just did not pursue or I did not try hard enough to find them. Um, I know one lady who I just had lunch with, um, uh, today. I met her because her son also goes, uh, to the same high 00:25:00school as my son. They play soccer together. Um, but that's about it.

TANAKA: Okay.

NIENABER: Um, I know usually there is a, um, PERMIAS, which is the association of Indonesian students in the U.S. So, they have the Kentucky chapter, they have the Chicago chapter, they have--

TANAKA: Oh. Oh. I didn't know there is Indonesian student.

NIENABER: Yeah.

TANAKA: Huh. So, when you were in Madison -- Madison has very strong Southeast Asian studies program.

NIENABER: Yes.

TANAKA: Were there a lot of Indonesian students there?

NIENABER: Yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

TANAKA: Okay.

NIENABER: Um, a lot of them are, um -- they came to UW-Madison with 00:26:00the program, so they're also organized by this MUCIA. But then also because, um, of that strong Southeast Asian studies, there's also a lot of connections with Indonesia and a lot of also students, you know, studying in that, so.

TANAKA: Were you active?

NIENABER: Um, uh, I was not the officer or anything, but, you know, I'll come to there when we have our independence or end of the Ramadan celebration.

TANAKA: Okay. Okay.

NIENABER: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

TANAKA: Now how about in Columbus or Chicago?

NIENABER: In Columbus too. And actually, my husband is actually the one who's very involved in the Asian festival in Columbus.

TANAKA: Oh, wow.

NIENABER: It is not -- the festival is organized not by the 00:27:00university, it is organized by the Asian, uh, community in Columbus. And, um, they have the Asian festival once a year during Memorial Day weekend. It's usually, it's a big event. So, my husband will be busy with the organizer. He's also, you know, a food scientist. So, he will be the one kind of handling, you know, because there'll be booths selling foods, and making sure that their hygiene--

TANAKA: Hygiene and food safety.

NIENABER: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. The temperature. So cold should be cold, hot should be hot. Yeah. Uh, and then I will be performing.

TANAKA: Oh. For the, the--

NIENABER: Festival.

TANAKA: Festival. The dance.

NIENABER: Mm-hmm.

TANAKA: Oh, okay. So, well, let's come back to that, your dance part. 00:28:00But how about the Chicago?

NIENABER: The Chicago, um--

TANAKA: I mean, Chicago has a relatively large Asian community.

NIENABER: Yes.

TANAKA: Asian-American community.

NIENABER: There's also a large Indonesian community.

TANAKA: Is it? Okay.

NIENABER: Mm-hmm. Um, some of them are based on religion.

TANAKA: Okay.

NIENABER: Um, uh, even the Christian, you know, they have the Catholic group, the Christian group. Um, and then, of course, there's the Muslim group. Um, I usually -- um, you know, I participated in whatever the Consulate General activity is--

TANAKA: Oh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And there is actually Consulate General in Chicago? Isn't there office?

NIENABER: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I still --Kentucky is under Chicago. So, every time I need to do something, I have to go to Chicago.

TANAKA: Okay. Okay. So, tell me about your dance and your involvement with the gamelan. Was it something you did before you come to the United States?

NIENABER: Yes.

TANAKA: Okay.

NIENABER: So, I started dancing when I was eight years old.

TANAKA: Oh, wow.

NIENABER: Um, and then, uh, actually, I earned my first money dancing at different, um, events in Yogyakarta. And then when I came to Madison, you know, people find out, and then every time PERMIAS, the student associates and having some Indonesian night, or -- then they ask me to dance. It's the same thing in, um, in Columbus.

TANAKA: Uh-huh.

NIENABER: Yeah. And actually, Columbus was special because, uh, I was 00:30:00reunited with my dance teacher. He was working at the embassy in Washington DC. And so, he was invited to like, --------(??) Day. He was invited to the, uh, dance department in Ohio State, so he came. And so, you know, we were able to dance together.

TANAKA: Wow.

NIENABER: After, I don't know how many years, 20-something years. (laughs)

TANAKA: Wow. So, did they have gamelan ensemble in Ohio State?

NIENABER: No. No.

TANAKA: So, how did you dance? Just use the recording?

NIENABER: Yeah. Yeah.

TANAKA: Okay. Okay.

NIENABER: Yeah. I met, um, I met a Balinese woman living in Columbus and then an American. Um, she actually, she was a PhD student in biochemistry, 00:31:00but then she decided that it was not her calling. She was, you know, more into dance and art. So, she went to Indonesia and learned how to dance. I think she lived there for two years, teaching English and then learned to dance--

TANAKA: How to dance.

NIENABER: At the same time. So, when she came back to Columbus, the three of us, we created this group and we actually perform at elementary schools, like introducing, you know, the culture, the dance.

TANAKA: Sure.

NIENABER: We went a few times to Oberlin College, because they also have the dance, um, department there.

TANAKA: Right. Right. Right. Right.

NIENABER: Yeah. So, for some reason everywhere I go, uh, I was able to keep dancing.

TANAKA: Keep dancing.

NIENABER: Mm-hmm.

TANAKA: Now did Chicago had a more larger group or no?

NIENABER: Um, yes. They actually have multiple groups.

TANAKA: Oh, did they?

NIENABER: Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah, um--

TANAKA: So, were you able to dance more in Chicago?

NIENABER: Um, I wish I could, but again, my children were young. So, my time is a little bit limited. Um, every now and then I perform, but not as often--

TANAKA: As much.

NIENABER: -- as I want to.

TANAKA: Okay. Okay.

NIENABER: Yeah.

TANAKA: So, how did you find out about gamelan ensemble in UK?

NIENABER: Um, so, my daughter went to University of Illinois for her undergrad, um, study and we found out there is a gamelan at, um, U of I. And we went to, um, watch them perform one time, and Putu (??), Pamarti's (??) son, 00:33:00he was also, at that time, doing his PhD over there.

TANAKA: Oh, okay.

NIENABER: And, somehow, we got to conversation and I mentioned that, you know, we are --At that time, I think I, we were already living in Kentucky. We were just visiting our daughter and going to the performance at the same time. And he said, "Well, there is a Balinese Gamelan in Kentucky at UK. Contact this person."

TANAKA: Oh, that's how you found that.

NIENABER: Yes. And so, I emailed Dr. Kwon (??).

TANAKA: Uh-huh. Yeah.

NIENABER: Yes. And we met a few times, um, before I started, um, joining the ensemble.

TANAKA: Gamelan. Yeah.

NIENABER: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

TANAKA: That's great. So, what did you think about that group compared to other, you know, your uh -- in your case, Javanese dance, right? Am I correct?

NIENABER: No. I always did Balinese--

TANAKA: Balinese dance. Okay. So how is it compared to the Balinese dance group you were part of? I mean, this particular gamelan group?

NIENABER: It's very different because the ones that I, you know, was involved with, it was just dancing with, with recordings.

TANAKA: Right. Right. Right.

NIENABER: So, that was a very new experience for me. Um, that's when I realized that playing the gamelan is much more difficult than the dance (laughs), which Dan (??), you know, disagree because no way and I was like, "Well, you know, if you're a musician, you pick it up very quickly." Obviously, I am not.

TANAKA: Yeah. But dance is --I mean, I consider dancer as a musician too, because you have to be able to move your body with music, so.

NIENABER: Well, you know, yes. For sure, I have a better appreciation 00:35:00of the gamelan.

TANAKA: Yeah. Oh, that's good. So, tell me then why you started now going into salsa. Because I mean, I understand you are a dancer, you love dancing, but salsa?

NIENABER: Well, I always loved dancing.

TANAKA: Yeah.

NIENABER: When I was in Columbus, I actually, uh, joined the swing, uh, dance.

TANAKA: Oh yes, yes. In Lexington, or no?

NIENABER: No. In Columbus.

TANAKA: Oh, Columbus. Yes.

NIENABER: Yeah. So, I did swing dance in Columbus.

TANAKA: Yes. Yes.

NIENABER: Um, and I love it. Um, and then when, uh, I came to Lexington, of course, we were trying to find something to do. Um, that is actually a funny story. Um, so, when we moved to Lexington, our daughter, she at the --she was a senior at U of I. And so, when she came home to Kentucky, she has 00:36:00nobody, she has no friends because all her friends are in Illinois.

TANAKA: Right. Right. Right.

NIENABER: So, she was looking for something to do. And it just happened that Friday night, the salsa center, they're having an open house, free event. So, she was like, "Let's go." So, we went and, you know, I was like, "Okay. I like this." I told my husband, for my birthday, what I want is, you know, that you come with me to a dance lesson. (laughs)

TANAKA: So, he did that?

NIENABER: He did that. Yes.

TANAKA: Did he continue?

NIENABER: He did that for, uh, probably about two years.

TANAKA: Oh, so he did. Oh, wow. So, is he accomplished salsa dancer now?

NIENABER: (laughs) He's taking it way too, too seriously. And, you know, the leader -- for the leader, salsa dance or this Latin dance, it's 00:37:00harder because they're the one who, who decides, you know, what are we going to do, what we going to do next. So, you always have to think about what I have to do next, how am I going to lead? It's becoming too much for him.

TANAKA: Oh, I understand. In salsa, male dancer have to really lead, more so than other type of dance.

NIENABER: Yes. Yeah.

TANAKA: Latin dance.

NIENABER: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, so, so, yeah. After two years he was like, "Oh. You know, you can go. I just stay here."

TANAKA: So, how many years you've been doing?

NIENABER: Um, probably about four years.

TANAKA: Oh, wow.

NIENABER: With a year of, you know, break during the lockdown.

TANAKA: Okay. Okay. Okay. So, tell me about that, um, about the 00:38:00COVID. Um, in what way COVID pandemic affected you most?

NIENABER: Um, I mean, I don't -- you know, it's very similar to how it affects the other families.

TANAKA: Okay.

NIENABER: Um, you know, managing -- because then everybody's at home, working from home or, you know, schooling from home. Um, you know, so in a way, our experience is not that much of a difference with the other -- the general, um people, um, in Kentucky.

TANAKA: Mm-hmm. But in many ways -- so, you already have been working 00:39:00virtually, right?

NIENABER: Right. Mm-hmm.

TANAKA: And then your children, both of them -- well, okay. By the time that the COVID happened, was your daughter already living outside of the United States?

NIENABER: Yeah. She was doing her masters in the Netherlands.

TANAKA: Okay. And then your son was in high school?

NIENABER: He was in high school. Yeah.

TANAKA: Which kind of made it little bit easier than having a little kid.

NIENABER: Right. Yeah.

TANAKA: But what was it like to have your daughter living outside of the United States where you don't know what the situation of COVID and how the government is, is addressing? I mean, what was it like?

NIENABER: Um, yeah, it was -- Well, at that time she already started working. She just started working. Uh, Covid -- lockdown was around February, 00:40:00March. She graduated the previous, um, year in August. So, she's been working since September.

TANAKA: Okay.

NIENABER: Uh, the company decided that they are doing, um, this half and half. So, they say half of the employee will work, you know, this week and then the other half will work from home. And then the next week they'll switch. So, in a way it was good for her, that, you know, she was not in her apartment by herself, you know, away from the family, because she was still able to come into the office and do her work. Um, but yeah, um, uh, you know, it's not easy, but I know that she's managing.

TANAKA: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

NIENABER: So, um, it's hard because, you know, she was not able to come home. We were not able to--

TANAKA: Able to visit.

NIENABER: --visit.

TANAKA: So, when was the last time you saw her?

NIENABER: Uh, last year about. I think she came home last year.

TANAKA: Oh, she was able to come back?

NIENABER: Yes. In April.

TANAKA: Oh, okay. Okay.

NIENABER: Yeah. So, there was this opening where--

TANAKA: Yes. April was a good month.

NIENABER: Yeah. So, she was able to come home. Um, and also, she was able to work from home. So, she was actually in the US for about two months. Um, but then yeah, we have four people working from home/going to school from 00:42:00home. (laughs)

TANAKA: Yeah. Yeah. How was that? How did it work with the Wi-Fi totally overwhelmed?

NIENABER: Yes. Um, you know, her work hour is a little bit different because she's following the Europe--

TANAKA: European.

NIENABER: --time zone. But in a way it's nice to have her, you know, in the house with us, but still--

TANAKA: Okay. Yeah. It's cramped together. Everybody was working there. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Now, so when, when you were in this lockdown, in the pandemic, you couldn't go-- I mean, gamelan wasn't-- We didn't play at all. And then, of course salsa center was probably closed, right?

NIENABER: They were closed for a few weeks and then they reopen.

TANAKA: Oh, they did?

NIENABER: They --but no contact. And they --the studio was taped up, so everybody gets their own square.

TANAKA: Oh, that's interesting.

NIENABER: Yeah.

TANAKA: Yeah.

NIENABER: Um, it's where you have a, uh, chair, so you can put your stuff on the chair, you don't touch other peoples, and it was no contact. So, there is no partner dance. It's just more just--

TANAKA: Wow.

NIENABER: Yeah.

TANAKA: How did you and others manage that transition? Was it okay?

NIENABER: I actually did not go at all--

TANAKA: Oh, I see.

NIENABER: --at that time. Mm-hmm.

TANAKA: Okay.

NIENABER: Some people, you know, they continue, but I decided not to come.

TANAKA: To be comfortable. Yeah.

NIENABER: Yeah.

TANAKA: Okay. Oh, that's fascinating. Now I'm going to shift a little bit, but related to the COVID is... So, last year, um, there Toronto spa shootings. I mean spa shootings in not Toronto area, it's not actually in Toronto. I mean, was --when that event took place, was there any --did you have any 00:44:00reaction or was it something just like any other news to you?

NIENABER: Um, uh, it was upsetting, um, you know, that something like that, uh, happened, but, um, yeah, you know, it's probably because, you know --it's not really happening here in Lexington.

TANAKA: Yeah.

NIENABER: So, you know, so it's in the news.

TANAKA: Right. Right. Right. But at the same time, during that time was also lots of so-called anti-Asian hate, uh, news, uh happening. Now, did you--How do you --when those kind of anti-Asian hate news are reported, how do 00:45:00you position yourself? How do you see yourself as an Indonesian woman? Or is it something that you don't think about? Because some people say, "No. It doesn't really... I don't think about this."

NIENABER: Um, honestly, um, I did not go out much except, you know, to the grocery store or to the park, you know, the open space. But in general, also, um, it's not like I'm pretending that it's not happening, but, um, I, um, I don't know, how do you put this? Um, I have not felt threatened, um, 00:46:00you know, during that time, at least --or not only during that time, but also the time that I have been here in the U.S., I have not felt, you know, that, uh--

TANAKA: Right. Threatened.

NIENABER: Yeah. Mm-hmm. So, I don't know whether it is because my location, you know, um, or --I mean, I look like Asian, so, you know, it's not like, um, I can hide it, right? Um, so, I don't know why, but I just don't feel, um, like somebody's trying, to uh, you know, attack me or, you know--so.

TANAKA: Sure. Sure. Mm-hmm. Right. Right. Now, how does your children see themselves? I mean, you know, they have an Indonesian mother and then German, right? Your husband is German descent. I mean, how do they consider their own ethnic identity?

NIENABER: Um, it is interesting with my daughter. Um, when she was little, um, she never want to because--the, the, she always, uh, hide her middle name.

TANAKA: Oh.

NIENABER: Because the middle name, it's a very, you know, it's an Indonesian middle name.

TANAKA: Oh. Uh-huh.

NIENABER: So, it is always just the abbreviation, right?

TANAKA: Okay.

NIENABER: Mm-hmm. And she, uh --when she was younger, she looks more like my husband--

TANAKA: Than you.

NIENABER: Yeah. Than me. Um, it's not like she's hiding it, but unless she's being asked, she will not, um--

TANAKA: Bring it up, and then say -- Yeah.

NIENABER: Bring it up. Right. Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

TANAKA: I'm half Indonesian. Yes.

NIENABER: Right. But as she gets older, she embraces that more and actually, um, you know, kind of wanting to know more about, um, about it. And, um, so, you know, it's not like it's something that she's trying to hide. (laughs)

TANAKA: Okay. So, when do you think that transformation happened? 00:49:00When you look back.

NIENABER: I'm not sure exactly when, but, um, when she was, um, applying for college, you know, they have to write this essay.

TANAKA: Right.

NIENABER: And, you know, after she got into college, she, um, shared her essay with me. And in that essay, you know, that was when she was questioning about her identity.

TANAKA: Oh, I see.

NIENABER: So probably around high school. Right. Yeah. That she's starting to questioning and, uh, especially with the Indonesian part of, um, her heritage.

TANAKA: Right. Now, she went to high school in Chicago, correct?

NIENABER: Yeah.

TANAKA: Okay.

NIENABER: Mm-hmm. Um, but probably more so, because, um, you know, 00:50:00the grandparents-- Germany is closer to the U.S. The grandparents, they come and visit every year or, you know--

TANAKA: Okay. Yeah. Right.

NIENABER: So, she has more connection to the German side. But, you know, because of the distance, we don't go to Indonesia very often, just, you know sporadically.

TANAKA: Right. Right.

NIENABER: Um, so, um, there is one --apparently there is this one trip where she felt like, "Oh, wow. You know, even though I don't come here, but all my cousins..." Because in Indonesia, you know, your family is this big family. It's not just your immediate, you know, uncle or aunt. It's the cousin and the--

TANAKA: --Distant cousin.

NIENABER: Right. Right.

TANAKA: All the extended family.

NIENABER: Yeah. Mm-hmm. And they're all very, very open and welcoming to her.

TANAKA: Ah, okay.

NIENABER: And, um, you know, they try to ask questions, talk to her, you know, embracing her. So that's when she, um, kind of, "Okay. I am part of this."

TANAKA: Okay. Interesting. How about your son?

NIENABER: My son, um, he doesn't talk about it much. Um, but he also looks more like me than, you know, my husband. So, I think it's obvious, people know, um, you know, that he is, um--

TANAKA: --And he hasn't shared with you any negative experience or 00:52:00anything like that?

NIENABER: No. No. Um--

TANAKA: Okay.

NIENABER: Yeah. I might need to probe a little bit to see. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But, um, so far, no, I don't hear anything, um, bad or, you know, him making comments.

TANAKA: Okay. Okay.

NIENABER: He --A lot of time people mistaken me as Hispanic and then they start talking to me in Spanish. (laughs)

TANAKA: Yeah. Yeah. My son went through that too.

NIENABER: Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah.

TANAKA: So, does he have a lot of friends who are Asian-Americans?

NIENABER: Uh, yeah.

TANAKA: Because has a lot of--

NIENABER: --Yes. And also, his soccer teammates. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

TANAKA: Yeah. Okay. I mean, my situation is similar. My daughter is 00:53:00very pale skin. She will not look half Japanese unless I stand next to her because we have the same kind of similar face, right? And then, but my son looks more Asian because with the dark hair and then he has a little bit darker skin color than my daughter does. Yeah. Nobody ever thought that he was white per se, you know, but Hannah easily can get by as a white person because she's just so pale. Interesting. Now, they don't speak any, uh, Bahasa, right?

NIENABER: No. Um, you know, they always say, "I blame it on mom," but--(laughs)

TANAKA: --It is tough.

NIENABER: Yeah, um, my daughter actually spent a month in Indonesia 00:54:00learning Bahasa, but if you don't use it, you don't hear it, you know, um, it's hard to retain. I mean, you know, both my kids, they learn Spanish in school still and, you know, we hear it, we read sign in Spanish, still they, you know, they cannot really speak it. They know a couple of words here and there, let alone learning it for a month.

TANAKA: Yeah. Right. I didn't teach my kids Japanese either. So, how about --let's go back to now focus on you. I mean, how do you identify yourself? I mean, you being, you know, like me, the living outside of Indonesia for a long time, um, how did your self-identity change over time?

NIENABER: Um, yeah, that is --I mean, it is still an ongoing, um, process. And, um, you know, I'm still Indonesian, but yet, you know I don't feel like--

TANAKA: --So, you are not U.S. citizen?

NIENABER: No.

TANAKA: Okay. I'm not U.S. citizen either. So, you still maintain Indonesian citizenship.

NIENABER: Right. Right.

TANAKA: Okay.

NIENABER: Um, and, you know, people ask me, "You have lived here for so long, why don't you, uh, you know, just change? And I always answer, you know, "I don't want to change because of practicality." Because a lot of you know, "Oh, yeah. Then it's easier for you to travel. Or when you go in and out, 00:56:00if you going to try to go to Europe, you don't have to ask for a visa." For me, it's not just about that. Um, you know, I know I'm still Indonesian, though I don't feel a 100% Indonesian anymore. Um, and I'm here, but I also don't feel like I'm American or, you know. So, I'm still in between.

TANAKA: Mm-hmm. Well, tell me more about that. When do you feel that way?

NIENABER: When do I feel that way?

TANAKA: Mm-hmm. Not quite Indonesian, not quite American enough.

NIENABER: Oh, yeah. Um, well, you know, not a 100% Indonesian, especially when I visit Indonesia.

TANAKA: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

NIENABER: Um, you know, I think a lot of the values are, you know 00:57:00--don't fit with my values currently, um, but, you know, a lot of that part is still in me.

TANAKA: Sure.

NIENABER: So, you know, it's still a, uh, mixture. Yeah.

TANAKA: Has anybody in Indonesia, when you are visiting in Indonesia, somebody say, "You're too American. You are Americanized." or, "You are no longer Indonesian."?

NIENABER: Um...not to my face. (laughs)

TANAKA: Oh, really? Good for you.

NIENABER: Um, they were surprised, you know, how Javanese I am still.

TANAKA: Okay. Okay. Okay.

NIENABER: Um, so, um, but who knows? Maybe they do say something. "Oh 00:58:00yeah, you know. She's so American now." I don't know.

TANAKA: Okay. Okay. All right. Okay. So, you never got in fight with your mom? --"You're not following the Javanese..."

NIENABER: Uh. Oh, yeah. Because my mom live in the U.S.

TANAKA: Oh, yeah. That's right.

NIENABER: So, she has, you know--

TANAKA: --Understanding. Yeah.

NIENABER: She understand more. Um, but my late grandmother, um, I remember this, um, she was at my parents' house and me and my husband were visiting. And then in the morning my husband made, uh, his coffee and my grandmother came to me, it's like, "How come that you're not making his coffee?"

TANAKA: (laughs) He can take care of himself.

NIENABER: Exactly. He can make it himself. (laughs)

TANAKA: Wow. So, when do you feel like you're not American enough? After being here for a long time.

NIENABER: Um, yeah. When is that? Um--That's a hard question. (laughs)

TANAKA: Mm-hmm.

NIENABER: I have to think about it.

TANAKA: That might be a little bit more frequent than probably when you feel like you're not Indonesian enough.

NIENABER: Right. Um, it should, um. Um, you know, things like, for instance, my son is about to turn 18. And here it's a big deal, right? That you have your independence, you can do this, you can do that. And in my eyes, you 01:00:00can be 18, but, you know, you're still living under my roof, (laughs) I'm still paying for your bill.

TANAKA: (laughs) Absolutely. Yeah. That's right. Absolutely.

NIENABER: Nothing has changed.

TANAKA: That's right. That's right. That's right. Yes. Until you are off from my health insurance.

NIENABER: Yes. (laughs)

TANAKA: Until you are off from my dependent category in the tax return. (laughs)

NIENABER: Yes. Yes. So that's one of--

TANAKA: --Interesting. So, do you think that feeling of kind of caught in a between phase of U.S. and then Indonesia, do you think that evolved over time from, you know, the time you were studying at Madison, Wisconsin to now?

NIENABER: Oh, yes. Yes. Mm-hmm. And again, you know, not only with 01:01:00the age, but also the phase of my life. Then I think more about that, you know, because now that I have children, I think more about my children.

TANAKA: Children. Okay.

NIENABER: Uh, how are they, you know, seeing themselves?

TANAKA: Sure.

NIENABER: How are they fitting? You know, um--

TANAKA: Sure. Right. And your parents are not-- I mean, they're healthy? Doing fine?

NIENABER: My dad actually passed away about 10 years ago.

TANAKA: Oh, okay. Sorry.

NIENABER: So, I only have, uh, one parent now.

TANAKA: Mm-hmm.

NIENABER: Mm-hmm.

TANAKA: But you have enough siblings that you probably don't need to worry too much?

NIENABER: Uh, yes. Um, my mom lived actually, uh, with one of my brothers' family. My mom lived downstairs, uh, they live upstairs. But actually 01:02:00my brother, he works as a professor in Sulawesi, in a different island.

TANAKA: Yeah. Yeah.

NIENABER: So, actually daily, my mom is living with my sister-in-law. So, I am very thankful, bless her heart. (laughs)

TANAKA: Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah. So that was my biggest, you know, challenge in a difficult phase. I think it was the most difficult phase after living in this country for so long. And then all of the sudden I have to face my parents', you know, health declining. And then thank God I kept the Japanese citizenship. It was easier for me to--

NIENABER: --Go back and forth.

TANAKA: --come back, even during the COVID. So, it's good.

NIENABER: Oh, yeah. That is hard. Because, you know, when my dad was sick, that was, like you said, that was hard because you know that he is sick, 01:03:00but you're so far away, there's nothing that you can do.

TANAKA: Right. Right. That's right. There's nothing you can do and then... Yeah.

NIENABER: My brothers can tell me, you know, what's going on, this and that. Yeah--

TANAKA: Right. Right. Now, I didn't ask you about your religion. So, are you practicing Muslim at all?

NIENABER: I am a Muslim, but I'm not a practicing Muslim.

TANAKA: Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah.

NIENABER: Yeah.

TANAKA: So, Indonesia is an interesting, more secular Muslim country, you know, these whole different ranges from people who are very much practicing to the--

NIENABER: --Yes. Um, so, my mother is a family of seven, three of them, um, women. So, I have two aunts. None of them wear--

TANAKA: --Hijab.

NIENABER: Hijab. But, uh, some of, um, their children or, uh, in-law-- Oh no. What is it?

TANAKA: Yeah. Like in-laws?

NIENABER: Right. So, they are wearing hijab. My sister-in-law, who lives in the house, she's wearing hijab. Mm-hmm.

TANAKA: Mm-hmm. Okay. And then, you didn't teach your children, uh, Muslim religion?

NIENABER: Um, no. Uh, I told them, you know, "I want you to be one because you understand what it means, not because you are told to."

TANAKA: Right. Right. Right. So, what do you do for the Ramadan? You 01:05:00don't practice at all?

NIENABER: Um, (laughs) I do the, um, uh --What is it? The fasting.

TANAKA: Fasting. Oh, you do?

NIENABER: I do as many days as I can, but typically I do more during week because I'm busy, I'm working. But not during the weekend.

TANAKA: Weekend when kids around.

NIENABER: Right. (laughs)

TANAKA: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

NIENABER: Yeah. Yeah. So.

TANAKA: Oh, interesting.

NIENABER: Yeah. So. Yeah.

TANAKA: So now you're leaving Kentucky for Kalamazoo. How do you feel? I mean, when looking back last five years in Lexington, Kentucky.

NIENABER: Um, I told my son this not long ago that, um, I am actually 01:06:00feeling, um, more, um, sad leaving Lexington, even though we were only here for five years, than leaving Chicago, where we lived for 15 years.

TANAKA: 20 years. Yeah.

NIENABER: Because of the reason I told you before. The friends I make here, they were friends because I chose them to be my friends.

TANAKA: Right. Right.

NIENABER: Not because--

TANAKA: --Not because kids.

NIENABER: Kids.

TANAKA: Soccer.

NIENABER: Right. Right.

TANAKA: Yeah. Yeah. Whatever.

NIENABER: So, I make more connection with the people here in Lexington than, you know --I mean, you know, I have still friends in Chicago, but, um, you know, the majority, they're just friends because of, you know, soccer, gymnastics, school.

TANAKA: Mm-hmm.

NIENABER: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So, I know.

TANAKA: Well, Lexington going to miss you.

NIENABER: (laughs) Ah, I told my husband, "In five years we 01:07:00reevaluate this Michigan thing just because it's so cold."

TANAKA: It's going to be cold.

NIENABER: Yes. Yeah.

TANAKA: Although Kalamazoo isn't a bad place to live. Um, I lived in Grand Rapids, Michigan for over 10 years. Yeah. So, that used to be my second home. But now I've lived in Lexington longer than any other places-- actually longer than my own hometown.

NIENABER: Ah.

TANAKA: I've been here for 21 years. I lived in -- I left Japan when I was 21, but I spent a year as an exchange student. So, technically speaking, I lived-- Well, and then plus, it was not until two years old, I moved to that hometown. So, yeah, I mean, Lexington is the place that I lived the longest in 01:08:00my life. So, it's going to be my home.

NIENABER: Yeah.

TANAKA: Yeah.

NIENABER: Yeah. Um, yeah, we'll see where we're going to end up after Michigan.

TANAKA: Yeah.

NIENABER: My daughter is like, "Well, why don't you move to Europe?" It's like, "Oh, I'm not sure about that." (laughs)

TANAKA: Now, your husband does have a German citizenship?

NIENABER: Yes, he is German.

TANAKA: So, he can go back to Europe.

NIENABER: Yes. Yeah.

TANAKA: Okay.

NIENABER: I've lived in Germany for a year.

TANAKA: So, you do have a lot of options available to you. (laughs)

NIENABER: Yeah. But if I can pick, I probably will stick with, uh, you know, uh, staying here. Um, European, German, they're not as easy to, to get 01:09:00close to.

TANAKA: Get close to and then make friends and then feel sense of community. Yeah.

NIENABER: Right. Yeah. And, you know, when you are already my age and older, it's--

TANAKA: --Even harder.

NIENABER: Even harder.

TANAKA: Yeah. That's true too.

NIENABER: Yeah. So, we'll see.

TANAKA: You find salsa club in Kalamazoo.

NIENABER: Or gamelan?

TANAKA: Yeah. Or gamelan. Yeah. Let me see. Who has a stronger --Well, I know University of Michigan has very strong Asian studies, but they tend to be east Asian. I'm not quite sure they have a strong Southeast Asian. Yeah. But maybe Michigan has a gamelan.

NIENABER: They have a Javanese.

TANAKA: They got a Javanese.

NIENABER: That's what --------(??) said.

TANAKA: Oh, okay. Okay. So maybe that might be good.

NIENABER: Yeah. We'll see.

TANAKA: But definitely salsa. There going to be a lot of salsa places, because the Hispanic population in Michigan is quite a big in the western 01:10:00part, so.

NIENABER: Oh yeah, we'll see. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So, we'll see.

TANAKA: Enjoy. Okay.

NIENABER: Oh, yes. It's a new adventure.

TANAKA: Yes. So, I finished everything I wanted to ask you. Are there anything you like to raise or you want to ask me questions?

NIENABER: Um, well, about the study itself, how --so, are you still collecting data?

TANAKA: Yes. And so, there's a different component to it. This is oral history component. And then we do focus group interview with targeted groups to specifically look at effects of COVID, and then --but the oral history component is more like collecting and preserving stories, you know, there. So, 01:11:00it's more open. So, we do talk about COVID, but it's more about their life stories.

NIENABER: Mm. Okay.

TANAKA: Yeah.

NIENABER: Okay. Okay.

TANAKA: Yeah.

NIENABER: Is it --there's a timeframe?

TANAKA: Yeah. I have a funding until, um, end of September, October. So, if you have anybody who you, you know, can recommend, that would be great. I like to finish interviews sometime this summer.

NIENABER: Okay.

TANAKA: Yeah. June, July, August.

NIENABER: Yeah. Because the Indonesian woman I have lunch with earlier, she'd probably have--well, not probably, she have a totally different story than me.

TANAKA: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the whole point, is trying to see multi--So, one of the goal is to overcome all those kind of stereotypes of what Asians are like, because Asia is so big. (laughs)

NIENABER: Right.

TANAKA: And I think about Indonesia alone, the population... I mean, Indonesia is third--

NIENABER: Third or fourth.

TANAKA: Third or fourth, I think fourth most populous country after India, China, U.S., and then Indonesia. Largest Muslim country in the world, right? And then, I mean, I've been in Lampung, Aceh, and then of course -----------(??)----------Jakarta and then Bali. I mean, different parts of Indonesia is totally different.

NIENABER: Oh, yeah.

TANAKA: It's just, language is different, the religion is different, architecture is different. And so, I think that I like to talk with as many people --doesn't matter, as long as they themselves see themselves as Asian.

NIENABER: Living in Kentucky.

TANAKA: Yeah. And living --lived in Kentucky, study in Kentucky or worked in Kentucky, or combination of all of them.

NIENABER: Yeah. I can suggest her.

TANAKA: Alright. Good. Good.

NIENABER: I can let you know her name and how to contact her.

TANAKA: That would be great. Let's see--