Interview with Edmond J. Cubbage, April 5, 2022

Interview with

Edmond CubbageInterviewed by

Adam NitchApril 5, 2022

Date of Interview

Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, University of Kentucky Libraries

Vietnam Oral History Project

All right, so my name is Adam Nitch, and today is April 5th, 2022, and I'm interviewing Mr. Edmond Cubbage about his time in Vietnam. So first, I just want to ask him a few questions about, um, his time, you know, before going to war, um, what was growing up in Swampoodle like?

CUBBAGE: Well, it was uh, I enjoyed it and all you know, we played baseball and we played, you know, football in the street more or less, or it wasn't organized sports. We never had organized sports and all. You get up Saturday morning and, and you go out, you know, you rode a bike or guys would come around your house that three or four of them. Let's get a game up and you go around and you get more guys and you go up to the playground and you play ball, you know what I mean? And there wasn't no, it wasn't organized. It was just playing ball. And uh that's how it was and all. You run around and stuff like that. So, you know, it 00:01:00was uh good growing up. You know, like I said, you know, would divide play football. You would play, you know, uh divide the guys up if you had 12 guys, six and six on each team or, you know, something like that and you play for a few hours or so, you got hungry, went home and ate, you know, like a lot of guys say, I'm quitting, I'm going home. You know, and they leave, you know, so it was fun, you know? So, you know, I don't know what else to tell you.

And then I was going to school. I got thrown out of high school and, you know, it wasn't a good student. And then I went to another school and I didn't get along with racial problems and all you know, there was a lot of blacks and get into fights and everything else getting punched in the back of the head. And I went to another school, basically the same thing. So, you know, it was back in 00:02:00the 60s and, you know, sixty three, sixty two, you know?

And then, you know, like I said and then I dropped out of school and the Vietnam War broke out. And President Johnson, he doubled the draft and I got caught in the first double draft, and seen it Friday. Come Monday morning, I got my draft notice and all, you know, so and a lot of guys from our neighborhood were beginning to get drafted more, you know, so it would, it would probably take 50000 to 100000 a month in the United States, you know, to be drafted. We had a big army, we had like about four or five million guys in the service at that time. I mean, it got bigger. Well, that's about it. Yeah.

NITCH: Mm-Hmm. Very interesting. So were you happy to drop out of school?

CUBBAGE: No, well I wasn't a smart kid. You know what I mean? So was I happy? 00:03:00No, I got thrown out. I guess I don't know, Discipline problems a little bit or whatever and all, you know and went to North Catholic, they, they threw me out. So I went to another school and I didn't fit in there, you know what I mean? So, you know, just trying to get by, you know what I mean? And then I got out and that, you know, like I said, I was trying to find a job or something like that. You know, I I didn't think, I didn't think past that day. You know what I mean? When you were a kid, you know, like what's going on? What are you going to do tomorrow or anything like that? You know, so you just think about, you know, like, um you know, to go to school, I didn't think nothing of it. You know, one way or the other. Yeah.

NITCH: How did your parents react to you dropping out?

CUBBAGE: They weren't happy with me, you know, like I said, my my dad was he was 00:04:00annoyed with me and everything else and all, you know, so I wasn't a a good student, so they weren't very happy. And then when I got drafted, they were sort of proud of me and all my son's going into the army and all, you know, so. And that was the only thing I figured ahh let me go in the army. You know, I didn't think about - A lot of guys at that time, I guess they would take it off to Canada and stuff like that. I never thought about that. I just figured oh, you know, I make my parents happy, you know, like my, my, my mom proud of me and all, my sons going into the service. So I went into the service. When I got in there and I found out I ran into a friend of mine.

He told me about being a paratrooper. I didn't think nothing about being a paratrooper, jumping out of planes. Then I found out that I was going to get fifty-five dollars more a month. So I was doubling my pay at at sixty-five 00:05:00dollars a month and another fifty-five for jumping out of a plane. It seemed like a good idea at the time and all, you know. And I like the training, I, running around and doing things, and you meet different friends from different places and all, all over that, you know, I never met guys from California or Virginia or Florida or, you know what I mean? Chicago or you meet these other guys from different places. I don't know how it is in West-West Chester. You meet guys from all over the country or mainly from Pennsylvania?

NITCH: It's a lot of Pennsylvania and a lot of New Jersey because New Jersey is super close to the area.

CUBBAGE: Right, right.

NITCH: Like one of my good friends, he's from New Jersey, but like there's a lot of Delaware and, you know? But. Not really many people from around the country.

CUBBAGE: Right, well, we had people, and not people, we had kids. They were, we 00:06:00were all kids at 19, 20, you know, some were younger and some were a little bit older than us at anywhere from Chicago to Minnesota to California, you know what I mean? So you know, wow, you're from there? Yeah, you know what I mean? You never thought of those places until you met somebody there. You know, you say, Wow, you know, and they're all different. Kentucky, you know what I mean? So, you know, some guys were poorer than us, and some guys are richer than us. You know, had more money and they lived, you know, on they live with the pool, you know, out in California, they had a pool in front of their house or in the back of their house or something like that. So that was interesting knowing about them, learning about them and everything.

NITCH: Definitely different, right?

CUBBAGE: But then we're all in one group now, you know? So when we did training and guys help one another out of, you know, to go through training and 00:07:00everything else and all, you know, some guys are a little bit smarter and help figure out guns or, you know, or help you or better and athletes and everything else and all they help you, you know, stuff like that. So training went by quickly. So I'd love to go back to that.

NITCH: Did you have any brothers or sisters?

CUBBAGE: Yeah, I was. I'm one of four. I have. I had an older brother, Tommy, and I had an older sister, Molly, and I had me and then my younger brother, Pat. My older brother died. Tommy and my older sister died and my younger brother, Pat, and he was in Vietnam, too. He was in the 173rd and he went. He became a paratrooper because I was a paratrooper. You know, so.

NITCH: Oh wow!

CUBBAGE: Yeah.

NITCH: When did he go over?

CUBBAGE: He went over after I came back, you know.

NITCH: (Pause) So before you went to Vietnam, what were your kinda impressions of communism?

CUBBAGE: We knew communism was a, you know, like I said, wasn't good at communism was everybody had, everybody was supposed to be the same. You know, anything with that would be um, everybody was about the same and except for the leaders, they lived very well. You know what I mean? So what applies to them, don't apply. That didn't apply for everybody else, so we don't want any part of communism at the time. You know?

NITCH: And you said that your parents were happy that you went over. What were their thoughts on the Vietnam War before you-

CUBBAGE: I don't think they were happy of me going over. They were happy that I went into the service.

NITCH: Okay, they were more proud of it?

CUBBAGE: Yeah, yeah. They were more proud of my son going into the service. This and that and all, you know what I mean? So, I don't think they were happy about me going over to Vietnam, but they um, you know, they told me don't do anything stupid to get killed and all that stuff, you know, so my dad, he sort of said, you know, don't be foolish, you know, don't try to be a hero, just come home and, you know, come home.

You know, I was a young kid, you know? Okay, but um, basically, that's what it was and all, you know, I think they were more proud of me being in the Army, in the service. I mean, going into Vietnam. And that time Vietnam just started, you know, I mean, they just began to put it on television and everything else, and people started noticing that guys were beginning to get killed over there and 00:10:00everything. So it was a two, a two-way street, you might say. But, you know, you know, I went over there and you go over there, you think you got all this training and you're going to kill them and you get over there and you realize that, hey, it's a two-way street. You shoot at them and they shoot back at you, you know what I mean? So it's not, it's not fun. You know what I mean? War is not fun, you know? So that's about the only thing I could tell you.

NITCH: Mm-hmm. So how did you feel about Vietnam, like before you got drafted?

CUBBAGE: I didn't think nothing of it. I didn't even know there was a Vietnam. You know, I was, geography-I never realized that there was a Vietnam. You know, I mean, I know that they were in Asia, you know, close to China, we thought or something like that and all, you know, they were like Chinese people, little little people and everything else. But I never thought one way or the other. You know, that didn't bother me, you know?

NITCH: Did you know that there was a war going on and you didn't know that it was in Vietnam or?

CUBBAGE: Well, once we got in the service, they were training us and they were telling us there was a war going on. You know, I mean, this audience was telling us, you know, what we needed to do to stay alive and everything else and in boot camp and everything else and all.

You know, I say that in the book, you know, Sergeant would say, look to the right of you, look to the left of you. When you go into combat, somebody is not coming out. Which, how true it is and all, you know; sometimes both sides, you know, of the (inaudible) not coming out if you do come out and all, you know and you personally. So they did train you for that and they did tell you, you know, um how to survive. You know what I mean, what you have to do to survive and everything else and all, you know, so--

NITCH: So before you got to boot camp, what were your like, what was your 00:12:00experience when you were drafted? Can you remember what you were doing? How did, how did you get notified of it?

CUBBAGE: Came in the mail. It came in the mail on your greetings and all. You know, it would say greetings, or now, I mean, in the letter, it said, Greetings, you are now you have to go down to 401 North Broad Street or wherever it was, I think was 401, to go for a physical at such and such a date. The date was like about a week after, I mean, a week after that you got the letter and all. You had like maybe about five days or seven days and you're supposed to be down there a certain time, eight o'clock in the morning or something like that. So you go down there, right? You go through a physical and every everything else they they check your mouth, they they check your ears and they, you know, check 00:13:00everything and then you go home. And then you got another letter saying, you're going into the service like about two weeks from then! Notify anybody and notify your employee that you have, you know, you give them that paper or whatever, you know.

So at that time, I was working at a nice pallbearer and a one of those places I forget. And I just went up there, Penn Ventilator it was. Just went up there and told them I was being drafted and they said, That's fine, you know, I give them the paper and they, okay, see you when you get back, you know, that's it.

NITCH: What was your reaction to getting the letter?

CUBBAGE: You know, I you know, I wasn't doing anything in life. I think might as well go, you know what I mean? I didn't think nothin' of it one way or the other.

NITCH: Did-sorry, did you know what you're getting yourself into before you went?

CUBBAGE: I hadn't the faintest idea, you know. We've, we've seen movies where, 00:14:00you know, like they're doing training and the sergeants yell at you and stuff like that. But we never thought about it much, you know what I mean until we got to boot camp and all, you know, like I said, I say in the book, as soon as we pull up, their sergeants were screaming at us and everything else. Get off the bus! Everybody was running off the bus. We're sort of laughing because it was funny because everybody said, Well, we're starting already, but then they did it. Then you realize that you're in there. You know what I mean? Some guys, you know, broke down or mentally they couldn't take it; other guys, you know, they they took it and all, you know. Well, you know, some guys that just couldn't take it right away. They they broke down and they didn't want to go and they don't want to do anything, and, and then you send them up to a psychiatrist or whatever, and they got rid of some of the ones and they put back some of the 00:15:00other guys and all, you know? So yeah, that's about it and all you know.

And basic training and AIT too.

NITCH: Mm-Hmm. Yeah, I read about that too. Um, did you have any fears at all?

CUBBAGE: No, no I was a cocky little kid. You know? Not little, I guess I was regular size, but I was a kid that was OK, you know what I mean? I thought I was a tough kid in the neighborhood, you know, and stuff like that and all you know. So, and I didn't think nothing of it and all you know, like yeah, that's about it.

NITCH: In your book, you wrote about, um, an experience you had on your way to boot camp when you stopped in Washington, D.C. with a few buddies and you just kind of, you know, had one last hurrah before you went down?

CUBBAGE: Right, right, right, right.

NITCH: Even with that experience, can you remember that all?

CUBBAGE: That, that was a good experience. A friend of mine, Frank Gallagher, 00:16:00he's in the book and I went down, got drafted with him. He said we should have wrote more about it and all, you know what I mean? We got off and we went into different bars and we were allowed to drink then And I think either 18 or 17, you were allowed to drink. We're in there, you know, just having fun and and went by a church, a Japanese church or something like that, they said. And, you know, yelled in the church, and all. I remember Pearl Harbor and all that, you know, drunk and everything else. And we were just having fun and partying around and then got back on the train. We got to get back on the train about three hours or something like that and all, you know, everybody made it back on the train, I believe, you know what I mean? So I had a headache that night and you know, it just went right into from there we went right down to South Carolina.

The train left and the next day we got up and, you know, it was just fun I guess and all you know, out there partying.

NITCH: So after you got off the train, um, in South Carolina, what was it like? What was your first day like?

CUBBAGE: Well, we got off the train and then they put us on the bus. There were busses there waiting for us. Everything was more or less I would say organized. They knew when we were coming and they we got on the busses and then they drove us to base camp at Fort Jackson, you know, and then Fort Jackson, there were the sergeants. I guess they must have had, I don't think they had phones then, but they must have knew we were coming yet, you know, we were supposed to be there at whatever time it was. It was sort of like after breakfast, but before lunchtime. And the sergeants started, you know, screaming out at us and everything else.

We all got all (head nod). Then they marched us down to uh, and they marched us down to get fatigues and we had to get fatigues and we had to get, you know, 00:18:00helmets and everything else. No weapons or anything like that. Just everything boots and everything like that and all, you know? And that was interesting. You'd go through a line and there would be guys in the back and you yell, they they say, What's your boot size? What's your shoe size and all? You give them a shoe size, they throw you shoes. Some guys had bigger boots. You know what I mean? They had boots that was three sizes too big and some had small ones at all. And the next day you go back down if your boots didn't fit you back down and change it.

The same thing with your clothes. I, you know, what size: small, medium or large, I guess it was. It wasn't. They didn't say, you know, they just look at you and they throw your fatigues on and everything else and all. So it was organized chaos, I guess you would say and all you know. Then you go back up into your barracks and they would have you change everything. And you know, some 00:19:00of it would be a little bigger. So it might be a little tighter. If it was tighter, you could go down and change it the next day, they'll try to get the right size, but that's about it and all, you know, so, you know.

And then the following morning, they'd be up there six o'clock or whatever time they would wake you up and be pretty early to go out running and then you start doing the exercises, the P.T. and all, you know, for eight weeks or so, you know, a good eight weeks, at least and all, you know. Some guys would get sick and throw up in the very beginning. But you get used to running around and, you know, tiresome and stuff like that and all, you know, then you go back and after your P.T., you go back and have breakfast and all, you know? It was interesting.

NITCH: (Laughter)

CUBBAGE: And it was more of an experience then, you know.

NITCH: What kind of exercises did they make you do?

CUBBAGE: Jumping jacks, you know, up and down with your legs? You know. Sit ups, pull ups, you know, the sit ups and you have pull ups like you have to pull, you know? You had the monkey bars that you walk, you know, you walk down. There had to be like 12 of them. Guys would, even I dropped off a couple of times, you know, fell off and all.

But you know, then at nighttime, you's go over and you would practice going up and down because if you fell off, you had to go back, you know what I mean? So some guys would fall off all the time in the very beginning and all, you know? And you know, and they have to go to the back of the line and you won't be getting breakfast, you know, and stuff like that. So you learn how to do things if you could do it and all, you know, and stuff like that. And I was a I wasn't 00:21:00a great athlete, but I was all right. You know, after a few times, like, you know, I had to do what, mostly what any other could do, you know, go through ropes or anything like that. So I was OK as far as that and all, you know. and I sort of enjoyed it. And I mean, it was sort of rough, but I enjoyed it. You know, it was fun, you know, fun watching other people fall too, you know what I mean, like (laughter)?

They didn't make it, you know, back to the end of the line! So, but it was fun. So, and the more you got into it, the better it was, and all, you know. And you know, the sergeants were always funny. But they were nasty sometimes, you know, like you didn't want to laugh at them, but after they left, you know, everybody had a big laugh over some of the things that they did to you and all, you know, so it was all right, you know, so. That's the only thing I could say.

NITCH: Mm-Hmm. Do you have any like stand-out memories of the drill sergeants like doing anything.

CUBBAGE: Oh yeah, that summer and the book and all, you know, like I said, they were just funny.

Some of them, you know, like, I always tell this one. We went a home for Christmas time and then, and I guess I guess we had a three day pass or something like that to go home for Christmas time. So the sergeant that was like, like, half a day, I guess it was like at noontime. All right, he said. It's Christmas, give me 10 push ups for Santa, you know, so everybody went down. The old company went down, counted 10 push ups got up there. And then he says, then he says, All right, give me 10 for Donald, for the, for the reindeer, you know, 10 for Donald, and who's there? All the reindeer, Blitzen and Comet? And a 00:23:00friend of mine, I hear him say I knew he was going to bring those freakin' reindeers in, you know, but then we did so by the time we got done, we did 100 pushups, just about and all, you know what I mean?

Then they let us go for, for Christmas. We had like a three day leave or maybe a four day leave. So we went home. We had to get our stay-in bypasses, you know, fly home and flew home and enjoy Christmas. Then we had to come back and all, you know, all in about four days, so you would fly home and then, you know, your parents would pick you up. And then after Christmas, the day after Christmas, you had to fly back, you know, to be back home. Now some guys, I don't know how they did it. They had to fly to California or wherever the hell they went to, you know, Oklahoma or something like that. So some of them had to fly a long way. Might've took them the whole day to get there.

I don't know, but it didn't take me that long and everything else, though, you know?

NITCH: Well, that's good. What was Christmas like that year? Was it any different or?

CUBBAGE: Well, yeah, you know, I come home, I was in my uniform and everybody made a big fuss over me. You know, you're in the service, you know? Yeah, you know. I you, you know, I was I was proud of myself and all, you know what I mean? So you get proud of yourself and all, you know what I mean? So, you know, like oh okay, you know.I'm out of the service now, you know, I'm not out of the service, but you're out on leave and you got your uniform on and you look good, you know what I mean? Or you think you look good and you know everybody and you run across some friends. Oh how you know, ask you about the service. Oh, yeah. You know, tell them how fun it is or how great you know, how great you feel and everything else. So you have a little pride, you know?

And so we had a little pride. I have a little pride of myself. And I think and 00:25:00all, you know, I think that brought pride out for somebody who wasn't going nowhere in life and that nowhere, you know what I mean? I didn't think I was going to do anything. I mean, I never looked back. I get myself a job. And you know what I mean? And factory work and all, you know, it wasn't, like, you said you, I wasn't into computers. I wasn't. Well, they didn't have computers then; they didn't have any of that stuff. So I wasn't into that. So I just figured, you know, I'll see how, you know, I never thought about it, you know? Mm hmm.

NITCH: So once you got back to camp, did you have any other maybe instances where you had downtime, where you could go out and, you know, kind of relax or?

CUBBAGE: Well, they give it to you for the first five or six weeks. You have no, you know, I mean, on the weekends and everything else and all. And then then 00:26:00after about five or six weeks as you begin to graduate, the last couple of weeks, they gave you leave for a night or whatever. You go in town and, you know, go in bars and and drink or, you know, try to run into a girl, you know what I mean? Try to talk to girls and anything like that and all, you know and stuff like that. So that was about it and all, so. You know, it was, well, everybody was together. We were all, guys were together. They rent scooters and say, guys rent scooters, you know, like motorcycles, well not motorcycles,there's little scooters. And they could ride around for a couple of dollars, you know, and ride around town and stuff like that.

NITCH: Mm-Hmm

CUBBAGE: And you know, in those towns and in that down South Carolina, Atlanta, Georgia, whatever you know. Well, that's about it and all, you know?.

NITCH: So once your, once your eight weeks was up, how did you feel? Did you 00:27:00feel accomplished?

CUBBAGE: Yeah, I felt very good. Like I said, you had a little bit of pride. You know, you're now, you're now a soldier. You know, when you go in, they try to tell you that you're, you know, dirt and you know, you're slime and everything else and all, you know. And now, as they build you up, they tear you down and they build you up.

And then once you come out, you know, you're a soldier, I'm a soldier. You know what I mean? Like, I'm a little tougher than I was. I know how to, you know, fight a little bit better. I would think, you know, and stuff like that a little bit rugged. So, yeah, that was a little bit of proud. You know, you were proud of wearing the uniform, you know? You know what I mean? Look at me, I'm in a uniform. And guys will be in marine uniforms, they would say hey look I'm a marine, you know what I mean? And stuff like that. So the neighborhood, you 00:28:00know, a guy from the neighborhood, you would see and they would know that you were in the army or you know what I mean, because you had the short hair at that time and all, you know and stuff like that and all. So they would know the army haircut and the marine haircut. They would all be short, you know, so they would know, you know, hey, you know what I mean, how do you like it? How is it? Its pretty good, you know? So they were nice, you know?

NITCH: One of the more interesting stories in your book is about, um, it was kind of a run-in you had with an African-American at boot camp.

CUBBAGE: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

NITCH: Would you be able to recall that story? Just kind of how you were feeling at the time-

CUBBAGE: Right.

NITCH: -about the civil rights kind of issues?

CUBBAGE: Well, I didn't take any, any uh, any stuff off of anybody. If somebody wanted to fight, I was a fighter. Maybe not a real great fighter, but somebody 00:29:00started something with me or we get into an argument with I, I duke it out with a little bit bigger or may have not and all. And, you know, like I said, I didn't start it.

He, I was buffing the floor. He comes running in and just like I said on that on on there. He comes running in. He ran across the floor. I say get off the floor, go around. You know, you should go around the side. He runs back across, you know, and I said something else, I called him an idiot or something. He comes running over to me. Well, like I said I dropped him or, you know, I punched him, you know, as soon as he got close to me, I guess. I tell in the story I seen him hit another black kid a couple of days before that. They were arguing right on the steps and all. And he punched him, but it got, other kids broke it up. Not other kids, other guys broke it up. Other soldiers broke it up and all. We 00:30:00punched the guy right away. When he came up to me, I just punched him. You know what I mean? And he fell down. He didn't get up.

He had tried to get up, I woulda really beat the hell out of him. He would have never got, you know, getting up. He woulda never got up. But anyway, he laid there. I went outside and you know, it was my mistake. I should have went down, he came out and smacked me with a broom handle, which was hard and the broom handle broke. Guys heard it, the guys that I hung around with Ball Marino and a couple of those other guys, guys, Recupero, they saw him fall and all, you know what I mean? That's why they started hanging around with me I think and all, I'm not sure, but they started hanging around with me afterwards and all, that's five or six guys you know, I became friends with and we went through jumps.

We went through AIT and jump school together and all, yeah. So they all hung around with me because of that. But I didn't hold no, I mean, I didn't hit him 00:31:00because he was black. I hit him because he was coming after me, you know, when he was going to come up and challenge me, I don't know if he was going to punch me or he was just going to try to, you know, make me back down. I just punched him, you know, and stuff like that. So we both ended up getting an Article 15, which they took money away from us and they took our rag or it way.

But I ran into him again, and like I said, I could've I could have really fought with him then if I wanted to and I knew I coulda beat him. You know what I mean, so he came up to me and he, you know, like I said he recognized me too. And he knew my name and I knew his name because we both ended up getting an Article 15. I never seen him since then and everything else, well, wasn't nothing personal, you know, and like I said, and nothing personal against him and all, you know.

NITCH: Yeah-

CUBBAGE: And like I said, he stood five feet away. If he had came real close. I 00:32:00woulda, I woulda did the same thing I'd done the first time, and he, I guess he knew that. But he stopped and he started talking to me. Were ya in the army? and I said, Yeah, I was in the army. I know who he was and he knew, you know, like I said, Are you Cubbage?, I said, yeah, you know? Said you're not mad at me are ya? After he said, You know who I am? I said, Yeah, I know who you are. And I mean, I coulda went right up and started fighting with him right there, you know? And I know he would have been able to stand up. But you know, we talked or we had a good, you know, talked about different guys in the service and I talked about, you know, yeah, you know, there were a lot of guys that got killed. There was a lot of guys in our training outfit, the guys that, he was lucky, he went to Germany, you know what I mean? And so, you know, you know, he didn't go to 'Nam, but he knew a lot of the guys that went to 'Nam and they got killed and all you know, so you know.

NITCH: Do you know what he was doing in Germany?

CUBBAGE: I haven't the faintest idea. He could have been a truck driver, he could have been infantry like I was, in Germany, you know what I mean? Like, you pull guard duty and everything else in Germany? I don't know. You know, so I just I didn't want to get into that with him. Yeah, I did think it was very interesting that you ran into him like just out of the blue that many years- I was, it fascinated me too and all, and I say to myself, I want to drop him, you know what I mean? Because when I seen him stop and talked to a friend of mine, a friend of his. And I had a friend of mine coming out and he, Jimmy, Jimmy Canty was there. He was a big kid and all, you know, and he, when he found out when I told him afterwards, he's Oh, you should've, we should've tuned him up and all. Nah I didn't want to tune him up. You know what I mean? I shoulda got into a 00:34:00fight with him and all.

I said nah that's okay. You know, so that's about it and all, you know.

NITCH: Very interesting.

CUBBAGE: Yeah, it was a nice, but it was an interesting story, all that happened to me, and all that stuff happened, you know.

NITCH: Oh, I believe it!

CUBBAGE:Yeah.

NITCH: So once you went to um-

CUBBAGE: I'll give you his name too, Dawson. that was his, his, I didn't change any names in the in my book, they're original names. But I remember and you know,

NITCH: Oh, yeah!

CUBBAGE: That was his original name, so. People say, you put people's names in the book, you'll be sued. Hey, why are they going to sue me? Not of it's true, they can't, you know?

NITCH: Yeah, I mean, it's all historical. I mean (Laughter)

CUBBAGE: Yeah, yeah.

NITCH: Once you went to AIT, how did that, how was that different from boot camp? What did you have to do there?

CUBBAGE: AIT, uh, AIT wasn't as physical as Boot camp was, you know, exercise we 00:35:00exercise and everything else and all, but it was more or less training on the rifles and, you know, learning how to read maps and and doing other things and all, you know. Learning how to survive out in the wilderness and all, you know, like, you know, you're going to eat certain, uh, grass, not grass, but certain Greens and everything else and all, you know and mushrooms and stuff like that.

Where they told you how to survive and you know, how to catch animals if you need it, you know, like I said, if we caught a chicken, how to break its neck and, you know what I mean? To pluck it and stuff like that and all, you know? So more or less survivor stuff and all, you know what I mean? Running out in the wilderness and stuff like that and all. If you get caught, what they would do to you.

You would, they would cut, you know, the enemy would catch you, you're supposed to give your name, rank and serial number and that's it. You're not supposed to give any information about-they drum that into your head and everything else and all.

And then you will have escape and evasion games that are like, as they would call games where they like they get caught and then they let you escape and then they try to catch you, you know what I mean? And if they caught you again, they do the same thing to you. Drench you with water. And I mean, they would beat you, beat you, but they smack you with their belts and stuff like that and all that stuff like that. So anyway, but we escaped, you know, many a time we just outran them, like I said and we just outran them until you got to a certain area, then they couldn't, and they couldn't come over that area where you could capture them. So, you know, it was it was a game. I guess there were games and 00:37:00everything else and all, and they tell you the rules of the game and all this stuff.

So I mean, AIT was a little different than basic training. So Jump School was a lot different than, um, jump school they taught you how to jump out of airplanes, and you did a lot of physical running and everything else and all so. And you did a lot of falling, you know, like they would teach you how to fall off a two foot platform and then, you know, and they teach you how to roll and stuff like that and all, you know, so it was all your legs and your arms and stuff. So. And they train you from thirty-five foot towers and all and you get up there and you slide down that you go down the towers and everything else and all.

And how to, uh, put the put the parachute on, you know what I mean, the right way of putting it on and everything else and all. It was about the same, you 00:38:00know, it was interesting and everything else, and all of that was a fun part of it too. And they threw you out of the plane and they got up there and didn't throw you out, but you got to go out of the plane and everything else. So that was a fun part too and all you know? Once you got there, how old are you?

NITCH: I'm 21.

CUBBAGE: Well 19, I'm 19. So it was exciting for me up on the plane and being, you know, jumped out of the plane. It was exciting. And once you did that, you know, you really liked it, everybody had a story. You know you down at the beer gardens talking. It was a lot of fun and you earned your 55 hours as soon as you jumped, you know, you said, I get 55 dollars now more a month, which meant a lot and all, you know, and I mean at that time. So that was about it.

NITCH: So what were the beer gardens? Was it just like an outdoor area where 00:39:00everyone could sit or?

CUBBAGE: Yeah, yeah, it was exactly, it was a nice, a nice like a nice bar. You must have them in there in West Chester, where you can sit outside. You know what I mean? And it was called the beer gardens and all. You could sit outside and the beer was like about a dollar- fifty, a dollar, you know, a pitcher of beer or something like that. And you know, it wasn't much. You know, everybody would have a glass of beer.

You know, like, and you just sit there and all guys, it was all guys and you just sit there and and brag about what you've done or you know how exciting it was, you know, about being up in the plane and looking out, you know, and being tossed out of the plane or something like that or what happened to you on the way down. You know, so it was fun, you know? And so everybody had their own 00:40:00stories and you know, and how fun it was and it was just a regular beer garden, you know, like a regular bar that you would sit outside with and all. And the beer was like, I think it was like 2.3 beer. It was wasn't supposed to get you drunk, but it would get you drunk after you drank enough of it, you know. It was cheap enough. It's cheap enough for everybody to buy, you know what I mean? Like, you could buy, you buy a pitcher for like, maybe a dollar or something like that. I'm not sure. It could've even been cheaper than that and all, you know. Seventy five cents, maybe. I don't know. I forget now, but it was fun and everybody would sit around and we would talk and, you know, just have fun. You know, it was, you know, so you make your own amusement that, you know?

NITCH: So how did you do that? Did you guys do any kind of activities or?

CUBBAGE: Nah, just talking then and just telling one another, their exciting 00:41:00experience jumping out of a plane. You jump out of a plane fifteen hundred feet or two thousand feet, it's it's it's it's fun, you know? I mean, it's exciting. And you did that too, you know what I mean? Oh, yeah, you know, I came down and stuff like that.

So it was all exciting. You know, I mean, so.

NITCH: So camaraderie really made like just the whole process-

CUBBAGE: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

NITCH: so much easier?

CUBBAGE: You never get that again and all, you know what I mean, like, you know, you never get that again.

NITCH: (Pause) I'm sorry. So how long did it take you to finish flight school?

CUBBAGE: Three weeks, I think, three weeks and all. You know, jump school.

NITCH: And then at the end of, sorry, jump school, um at the end of jump school, 00:42:00you said you went to Hawaii, right, for-

CUBBAGE: Right, right. We went home, I came home. I had to leave. I came home. Then we were going to go to Vietnam. We got orders out of jump school that where we were going to go. Some people, like I said, went to Korea. Some guys went to Germany, and most of us want to Vietnam. You know, the majority of them was going to Vietnam and all. There was a few guys, one here and there, I guess and all you know what I mean and, you know, but then we got, we, I got like a 10 day leave to go home to say goodbye and everything else. And we're supposed to go to Vietnam and we get on the plane and we went to California first and then from California, we went to Hawaii and more or less and all, you know?

Well, yeah. They're going home, your mom and dad, you know, they're all well. Be careful. You know, you're, you know, fine, you know, and stuff like that. So we 00:43:00took it with a grain of salt, more or less. We really didn't know what we're getting into. You know, I mean, that's, Oh, war. You know, I'm training good. I know what I'm doing.

You know, you think you know what you're doing. That's it and all, you know what I mean, so I didn't think one way or the other about it and all. You know, I just wanted to be home and party a little bit. Then come time, you know, went back and got on the plane and went to went to California, flew to California from there. You know, and went to Hawaii.

NITCH: So after you completed all this training and you stopped in California, how were you feeling when you were on the plane going over to Vietnam?

CUBBAGE: I thought about different things. I even say in the book, I remember saying in the book we're going into, I don't know what was coming back or whatever, and then we're going into California. And one of the guys said, there 00:44:00goes the seventh wonder of the world, and all, you know, the bridge, you know, at that time. He said, that's one of the seven wonders of the world and all, you know? How they built the bridge. I didn't know what he was talking about at the time and all, you know. On the way, yeah, I wasn't thinking too much about it and all. You know, I just well, we're going over to Vietnam. I got two years in the service and I'll be out. Every day is one less day in the service I was thinking, and all, so you know, and that's about it and all.

NITCH: So were you alone on the plane or did you have anybody to kind of talk to?

CUBBAGE: Oh yeah, there was a lot of guys, a lot of service guys on the plane. It was a regular plane. There was a lot of service guys. I met one guy, I told you, Bell.

He was from Philadelphia. And he said he was going to get killed before and all that. I says Nah, you're not, nothing's going to happen. But he ended up getting 00:45:00killed before Easter, matter of fact it was around this time, I guess and all. A little before Easter and all, you know, somebody told me out in the out in the jungles, and another black guy said to me, You know Bell?, he says uh, He went to school, I mean, he went to jump school with you. I said, Yeah, I know him and all, he's a black guy, yeah. A brother, he said, a brother, you know what I mean? Yeah I know him and all. And he said, Yeah, well, he bought the farm. He got killed. I go wow, it was before Easter and all, so, you know.

NITCH: How to react to that news?

CUBBAGE: Oh God, I felt bad, I was a little upset. You know, I mean, like, you know, I wasn't really friendly, friendly with him but I, you know, I mean, I got more friendly with him. I went through jump school and AIT with him. And we knew one another and we knew we were from Philadelphia. He was black and I was white. And he's, you know, he hung around with his buddies and I hung around with my buddies but when we went, when we flew over on the plane we sat next to one 00:46:00another and we actually probably talked more than we did, you know, in the last in the last month or two. You know, with one another. I felt bad. I said, wow, you know what I mean? I'm like, you know, like, things are really changing here and everything else and all, you know, all these, you know, like it's like, you think about that and everything else and all.

I never tried to contact his parents. I guess that was one of my bad parts. You know, I come home. I probably should have, you know, because I knew he was killed. And I knew he went over with me. Though he wasn't in my outfit, he was in the 173rd, which I was supposed to go to the same outfit with him. You know, we had the same patch on and all, but they changed us over there. And I never contacted his parents neither and all, you know what I mean? I probably should have, you know, touched base with them. Said hey, I, I knew and I can't even 00:47:00think of his first name now. I just know it's Bell. You know what I mean?

The weather man on TV, his name's Bell. And I often wonder if he's related to him, you know what I mean? That could be one of his uncles or something like that or a distant cousin. I know, I know he's from Philadelphia and all, but that's part of life.

NITCH: Yeah. You never know (Laughter).

CUBBAGE: Right, right, right. If I ever run into him I'll, I'm gonna ask him if he had an uncle that was killed in Vietnam or anything like that, you know? So in general, I think he's on Channel six or something.

NITCH: Okay.

CUBBAGE: Do you know who I'm talking about?

NITCH: No! I'm actually not really from Philly, so.

CUBBAGE: Oh, he's a sports guy. He's a sports guy.

NITCH: Ah, okay.

CUBBAGE: Yeah.

NITCH: So once you landed in Vietnam, what were kind of the, how did you, what were the sights like, what was the environment like?

CUBBAGE: 'Nam was pretty. It was all green. It probably looked like Ireland or something like that. All hot. It was very hot. We landed in the, where it was the hot and dry. There's two seasons, hot and dry and hot and wet.

The monsoon season and we landed in the middle of the dry season, so it was really hot and all. You know you when you once you got out there, you know it was up in the 100 degrees, you know, could up in the 90 degrees or anything like that and all. So it was hot and everything else and all, you know, there's a big base camp there at Camp Alpha they call it and all, you know, and they were always playing music. Like I said, they always playing music and stuff like that rock and roll on the radio and they play the Green Beret a lot, which seemed like every other song was the Green Beret because they were trying to brainwash you and stuff like that.

And it was, it was interesting, they had, they didn't have a beer garden there, 00:49:00but they had a place where, an EM club where you could go there and you could sit and have beer and have soda or whatever you wanted to drink and everything else and all. And then they would call names out every, every so often they they call 20 or 30 names and they go up there and they would probably process them and where they were going to go and everything else. And that's what happened to me.

You know, two or three days later, I guess they called our names out and they said, You're going to the 1st Infantry Division, not the 173rd. And you know, everybody was yelling and screaming. And then they just tell you they come down with the hammer and say shut up! You know, you listen to us and you're goin' here and you know what I mean? They told us, we're going to go to the 1st Infantry Division and we're going to get our jump pay.

We're going to get. And they gave us everything we going to get. You know what I mean? We want to get our hazardous duty pay and everything else and all 00:50:00involved. And I better sign that you have a, you know, you have insurance, they had insurance, you got killed, you got $10,000, your parents got. Big deal and all, you know what I mean? They say, Well, if you don't sign your insurance, you may cheat your parents out of $10,000 and all, you know. So if you didn't sign the insurance and you get killed your parents then get nothing for you, you know. So, that was the service.

NITCH: Yeah, yeah. So, so when you got over, you weren't actually working as a paratrooper? They were just paying you the rate?

CUBBAGE: They were just paying me the rate and all, right. You know, there wasn't any jumps in Vietnam. They weren't. They just changed to fly in helicopters where they could. They found out they could land more safely in 00:51:00helicopters and get guys off and helicopters just as quick. You know what I mean? And and everything else and all, so.

NITCH: And were you, did you just kind of take that with a grain of salt or?

CUBBAGE: I didn't think nothing of it. Yeah, it just, hey, this is the way it is, you know, so. That's all. You know, I didn't think nothing of it one way or the other.

NITCH: So where were you serving with the First Infantry Division, like in Vietnam, maybe in terms of geography?

CUBBAGE: Like, they say like 35 miles southwest of Saigon. It was called Phuoc Vinh. But we were mostly in the jungle all the time. You know, we were sweeping the jungle, you know, and I had a machete, and they just chop, you know, a 00:52:00little path, you know, to sweep the jungle and stuff like that and all.

So we were mostly in the jungle. We were in Phuoc Vinh, but we weren't in there long. You know, we were in there. Come back, go out for 10, 20 days and come back and, you know, shave and shower and and have a couple of meals or whatever. Couple of nights and then go back out again and all you know, so we're out there most we're in the jungle more than we're back in base camp and all, you know? I spent mostly all my time in the jungle, you know? That means digging a foxhole every night and, you know, pulling guard every night and everything else and all, you know, for a year. So and some days we're out in the jungle for 30 days or more. You know, I don't know how long. you know?

NITCH: And were the foxholes just kind of temporary, maybe shelters pretty much or?

CUBBAGE: Right, right. You dig a foxhole at nighttime and to pull guard in case you as they try to overrun you or anything like that, and that was a position that you would stay in. You know, like I said, sometimes you would dig a deep foxhole, sometimes not so deep at all. Then the next day, you had to fill them up again before you left at all. You know, you throw your cans in there or, you know, your food in there or whatever you ate and all, you know, your cans or whatever else you need, and you just fill it up, fill your little foxhole up and move on and and swept more jungle, you know, stuff like that. So basically, that's what I did the whole year. Sweeping through the jungles, you know what I mean, so.

NITCH: How come you filled them in? Was it so like they couldn't use them or?

CUBBAGE: No, they just wanted you to put it back the way it was more or less, 00:54:00you know, you put a fox hole there.

I mean, you dug a foxhole. Now why they want you to fill them up? I don't know. You know what I mean? So, but what we did fill them back up again and everything else and all, you know, put it back in. I guess so it could grow or whatever, you know, let the plant grow or the or the grass or whatever it is and all, you know. So I don't know why they just don't say well leave it there. You know it woulda been a lot easier for us to leave it. You know what I mean? Because we spent about two or three hours on two hours or so digging a hole sometimes, and then you spend another hour filling it back up again, you know, I mean, just throwin' the dirt back on it again and inside the hole, you know, I mean, the foxhole fell. I don't know, you could do some research as to why they filled them back up.

But the foxhole was, you get down there in case the enemy attacks you. You know 00:55:00you had some, you know, not shelter, but you know, had something around you. You only have, only can see a certain amount of your body, you know what I mean? So, you know, I fire back, it's easier to fire back than, in a foxhole than it is outside, you know? So, making you a smaller target I guess.

NITCH: Did you have to like sleep in them too?

CUBBAGE: Yep, yep, yep, yep. I think I went like in the book, I think I went like 28 days or 27 days without shaving or showering or anything like that, keeping the same clothes on. I grew a beard that was longer than I ever seen before, and all and you looked at your friends and you don't recognize them because they all had beards and all, you know, we were out in the boonies for so 00:56:00long and we're so cruddy looking and everything else and all, you know, like, you know? And it was just very, you know, when we got back at base camp and everybody took showers and everything else and they had a shave.

We had to shave and we gave us razors and everything. Sometimes it took two or three razors. You know what I mean? Throwaway razors and all, you know, because our beards were so long, we had, ah, you didn't shave for like 27 days, like for 30 days, you know, they are long, the beard is, and everything else and all, you know. But it was an experience. That's one experience that I never had again, you know, went that long without showering or shaving or anything like that. So, you know.

NITCH: Definitely must have been an eye opening experience.

CUBBAGE: Yeah, well.

NITCH: What would you say, like, while you were in the jungles, what would your, like, daily routine look like from when you woke up to maybe nighttime?

CUBBAGE: Well, you wake up and you know. You'll be eating C rations most of the time unless they brought food down in these containers and they feed you eggs or whatever and all, you know, but you eat C rations, you get up there, you have C-rations, you would cook them. We had a C-4 a little, these C-4s that you would just, about this big, I guess, but you light it and it would turn blue. I mean, C-4 is to blow up stuff or everything else. Anyway, you light it and it would it would burn blue and you could cook over it.

You know, like I said it in a matter of a minute, whatever you're cooking and all, you know, and in your C rations, so you eat them and then you fill in your 00:58:00foxhole and then you go out, sweeping the, sweeping the jungle and all, you know what I mean? Like you go out there and just chop, chop, chop. And, you know, like I said, so.

It was, it was tough sometimes, and all, you know, especially when the, when the hot and dry season and all, you know, I mean, like, you know, hot and dry seasons, if you didn't have enough canteens, you know, you carry two canteens or sometimes three canteens and you still get, you know, that's all you had for the whole day. You know, sometimes maybe almost a night if they didn't supply you, you know, so unless you came across a river or something like that, then you put tablets in there, iodine tablets. They put iodine tablets in there, in your canteen and you shake it. You know, and it was supposed to purify the water but 00:59:00still taste awful, whatever and everything else and all.

Guys, some guys didn't do that. They hoped that they got malaria and everything else. Guys wanted to get out of the field after a while. And then you start losing guys and friends, probably getting killed. You know, you want to get out of the field. You don't want to get out, you know, guys. We had guys shot themselves in the leg. They want to go, you know, and different things like that and all, you know, they wanted to get out of the out of the. The area out of the country, you know what I mean, so.

NITCH: And did you know anybody that did that?

CUBBAGE: I know a lot of guys that did that and all. You know what I mean?

NITCH: How, how did maybe like officers and just kind of the higher ups react to it, like, did they allow you to leave or?

CUBBAGE: No they didn't like it at all and this or that and all, so. But guys, like I said in the book, it says the same thing. One guy shot up a couple of 01:00:00airplanes and airplanes flew over.

We we're back at base camp. Then he took off. He left the base camp. They wanted us to go out and get him. And everybody said no. The sergeant said, No, we want to have a shoot out with him. You know, and the captain says, you got to go out and get him. They said, We go out and get him. He's going to shoot at, he's going to shoot at us and we're going to shoot at him, he's going to either kill somebody or we're going to have to kill him. And then the sergeant was right, he said. Sergeant Jackson, he said, let him come in. He'll come in in a few hours when he gets tired and everything else and all, you know, so in a few hours he came in, he was thirsty and everything else and all. He surrendered, you know, he brought his gun up and you know, everything else and all. I talked to him and everything else. He said he's getting out of here. He said he, you don't want no, he don't want no parts of the army anymore, you know? So he was fed up with 01:01:00it and all, you know?

Young kids, we're young, you know, you know, you know, I look back on it now, and I think to myself, we're only young kids we're 19, 17, 18 years old. He might have been he might have been 19. He might have been 18, you know, and he was upset. You know, he's saying, Look, we're getting killed. You know, like, you know, we're not only killing them, they're killing us. So, you know, he wanted just to get out and all and stuff like that, so.

NITCH: It was really just an awful situation.

CUBBAGE: Any war is, you know. It tests your mental ability sometimes, and I think, you know, and you, can you stand it? And if you stand it, your life isn't worth two cents, you know what I mean? Like one day you're here and you know, you try to learn something, you blow it up or you could be beat in the bush and 01:02:00you could get shot by a sniper or, you know, get shot by a whole lot of people that's waiting for an ambush, you know what I mean? Waiting for you to walk into it.

So there was a lot of, you know, a lot of things that could happen. And you just say to yourself, Wow, you know what I mean? Not is it worth it? How am I going to get out of this situation? That's what I used to think of, now How am I going to get out of this situation? You know what I mean? You know, especially when there's shooting going on and everything else and all, you know, people are firing at you and you're firing at them. You're saying to yourself, I always, how am I going to get out of it? You know, like, Okay, Lord, let's make a deal! You know what I mean? And stuff like that, so, you do whatever it is and all you know, it'll help you mentally, I guess and all, you know, I don't I think about that now. When we're all young and everything else and all, you know, so we didn't know a lot of life. You're talking about, you're 20 now you said? 21?

NITCH: 21.

CUBBAGE: Okay, so you two or three years younger than you are now. How you felt and all, you know, and they put you in a situation where you don't know how the hell you getting out of it and all. You say holy shit. First of all, how'd I get in here? First of all, they sent me over here, you know what I mean? Like, I had no idea of what I'm getting into, but I'm just following what Uncle Sam said you're supposed to do and everything else and all. You know, I'm watching the news now with the Russian troops, I say a lot of the Russian troops are deserting and everything else and all. They're finding out, you know what I mean? You're in a situation. We're doing it. I have no problem with these people over here, you know? I'm in a, I'm in a country that these people are fighting for their country.

That's the same thing with the, with the Viet Cong, the Vietnam. They're fighting for their country and all, you know, we were invading their country or, I wasn't invading, you know, they're not invading ours, so, you know, 01:04:00complicated and all, you know, so.

NITCH: So you have sympathy for, like the Ukraine, I'm assuming.

CUBBAGE: What'd you say?

NITCH: You have sympathy for the Ukraine?

CUBBAGE: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, they're invading their country. And, if they don't, Russia, don't wipe them out. They're going to win, because they're fighting for their country, you know, and and the Russian people, the Russian soldiers know, yeah, you know, that they're fighting for their country. You know, they might take over, but eventually they'll be walking down the street and you know, they're going to get shot walking down the street by, you know, a civilian, somebody walks up, Hey, how are you doing? Same thing with what happened in Ireland with England and everything else and all. England ran the country for a while. But the English soldier was getting killed right and all, you know what I mean? They were, you know, they were in Ireland and Ireland, they got weapons. They would, they would shoot one, you know, I mean, 01:05:00and shoot another one.

So, you know, yeah, you can't you can't mess with a country. You can't take over a country, you know what I mean? Might take it over, but the people are eventually going to end up winning. You know, I think, you know, in any country. So.

NITCH: Yeah, it's definitely been very interesting seeing all this happen in the real world and then learning about, you know, the Vietnam War and just seeing a lot of the similarities that you just talked about. So.

CUBBAGE: Oh yeah.

NITCH: Definitely. How did you, like when you were on those patrols in the jungle, how did you manage maybe your stress and mental health? How did you maybe cope with the thought of there being, you know, snipers in the trees?

CUBBAGE: Wasn't easy, it wasn't easy and all, you know?

And there was, pot and grass, you know, it was pot and in the service and all, 01:06:00you know, so that's where it originated from, I think, you know what I mean. I mean, the door opened up and in the United States through Vietnam, I don't know, you know, I mean, so you know, they end up, like I said, I go back to base camp, I go in town to party, you know what I mean? I didn't care because, you know, our lives wasn't worth two cents. And all you know, I mean, so you went in town and you, you party, drink a little bit, you know, smoke a little bit and do whatever you had to do and come back.

And every day was a day shorter. You know, I mean, every day was a day shorter. And that's how I looked at it. I knew, like after 365 days, I knew I was going to go home if I made it that far. Did I think about it sometimes? Yeah, 01:07:00sometimes you thought about it, you know, sometimes it wasn't easy, you know, so you just took it, you know, I mean, like, you know, there's nothing I could do. I I'm out of here, you know, and stuff like that. So there's nothing I could do about it. So I just did what I had to do. You know, every day was a, you know, like I said, it wasn't hard, but every day wasn't. It wasn't easy, but every day was the next day shorter. You know, and I never, you know, after 365 days, I was going home, you know what I mean? And stuff like that, so. You know.

NITCH: And as as you said earlier, I mean, friendship was super important. I'm sure, definitely.

CUBBAGE: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you got to know those guys and and love them as close as brothers and all, you know? They all were good guys and they were all, you know what I mean? Sit down and you talk.

You talk about their and they tell you about their family, you tell them about 01:08:00yours. You know, I mean, your girlfriends or your ex-girlfriend. You talk about that, you talk about the neighborhood, you know, I mean, they discuss everything and all, you know? Stuff I can't remember now, but you know, you would talk about different things, you know how many brothers and sisters they had and you know where they from, you know, like I said, different parts of the country and everything else and also, you know, discuss everything, I guess and all. But that was it, you know.

NITCH: Do you have any favorite memories of them?

CUBBAGE: Not really. You know, not really, anything I had, I, I went through and I went through that in the book and, you know, like I said, whatever it was, it was and all you know, so, you know, I sat down every day and the more I talked 01:09:00about it, you know, and brought things up, the more I remembered and everything else and all. And I just had to put it in, in the right order. You know, I mean, like some things happened after other things and stuff like that, and all. And I just had to put, try to figure out what came first and all, you know and stuff like that and all, you know. So, you know, yeah, I have one that I like to tell and I say that, to my wife all the time. Well, I'm on a detail. They were. They were cutting down their elephant grass and all, our company. And they put us out. They put us out to guard to, to make sure that the enemy wasn't, that the Vietcong wasn't going to attack us while we're out on, you know, on, not on patrol, but we're out there on.

We're setting up there. And it's it's an open. It's an open field. It was a rice paddy, you could see over it. And all at once, a helicopter came down and a little colonel, he wasn't a colonel, he was a major. He come down and he said, You know, he told us, and we're just sitting there, you know, having a radio on and, you know, doing whatever we're doing, we got the machine gun out there. You know, you're in a hostile country? Of course we're in, you know? And he's all dressed up. I mean, he's all real neat. It looked like he just, you know, he just flew into the country or something like that and all. You know, I mean, and he was a major. You know, you're in a hostile country? And once you put your helmets on and, you know, get over there by the machine gun. And, you know, anyway, when he was flying away, we saluted him, you know what I mean? We were hoping that somebody would shoot him down and everything else and all, you know? But he was a real idiot. You know what I mean?

So, you know, of course, we know we're in a hostile country, we had more combat 01:11:00than you ever had. You know what I mean? And he was a little major. He had that southern accent, you know, like I said, so I have that story. We laughed about that for a long time. Every time we would see one another, the two guys I was with, the two black guys I was with, Greer and Young. Every time, not every time, but almost every time we see one another. Do you know you're in a hostile country (Mimicking Southern accent)? You know, and we laugh about it and all. You know, the guy was an idiot.

You know, he was he was a major. I think he was a major. You see my rank? You know, salute me. You're not supposed to, so we saluted him, then when he flew away, you know, we thought, Well, maybe if we salute him, maybe he'll get shot down. Well, we, you know, we all saluted him. We got replaced with that and all, you know? So, anyway, but it was funny. It was, it was, it made us laugh for a long time and all. You know, I mean, like, it's one of the funniest things, but 01:12:00I probably ran into those two now.

You know, I mean, 50 years later, I bet you one of the first things they would say is something like that. Remember, you know, you're in a hostile country. But I thought it was, we all thought it was funny for the longest time. You know what I mean? So things like that keeps you going, I guess and all, you know, and stuff like that. So.

NITCH: Yeah, I, I definitely thought it was very funny how like how kind of you just mess with the officers and stuff like that, even when you were still in boot camp, but. I think you wrote about how you threw like smoke grenades into like the lunch hall while they were all eating lunch.

CUBBAGE: Yeah, the MPs.

NITCH: Yeah, so, that was definitely very (Laughter).

CUBBAGE: The MP, yeah, I didn't throw any of them, I actually didn't throw any of them. I was sitting there, but I did give somebody. They were. I happened to get the last seat. One of the last seats, I guess, was the last seat on the 01:13:00deuce and a half. And when they went by the when they went by the, the MP's mess hall, somebody said something and then they and they started throwing tear gas grenades and all.

They're lucky. The MPs gave them a hard time, gave us a hard time a lot of time. They're lucky that a couple of guys didn't throw real grenades and you know, try to blow them up. Anyway, guys, they oh, I guess they figured, well, we'll just throw tear gas grenades and all. It was funny. It was a funny situation and all, you know what I mean? Those guys, when they came down to our base camp and all like about 20 minutes later, they all had their, they had their face mask on. And then the ones that didn't have their face mask on, you could tell that they were they were crying, you know, from tear gas grenade, from the tear gas. You could tell that. And they were really, it was funny. So anyway, that was a funny situation. When I actually didn't throw any. I woulda, I probably if I had known 01:14:00that I would have wrote a book, I would have got up there and really tossed one or two of them. And, you know, I mean, but it was funny situation and all and they blamed us for it and all. But you know, what can you do? You know.

NITCH: Hindsight sometimes (Laughter).

CUBBAGE: Yeah, yeah, you know.

NITCH: Other than, or excuse me, when you were in Vietnam, how did you stay in contact with your family back in Philly?

CUBBAGE: I wrote letters, not too many letters. I got a lot of letters from my mom and I got a letter from an old lady. She was (Inaudible), well, she was an old lady, but she was my, my brother's not mother-in-law, aunt-in-law and all, you know, she was, she would write to me too and all. She was a nice lady and, and her name was Ron.

And she, she used to write to me and my mom used to write to me and all, you 01:15:00know, I mean, my old girlfriend sent me a Dear John letter so she never wrote to me. So I replaced her with another one here. I'm only teasing, I'm only teasing but

NITCH: I love that, that's great.

CUBBAGE: I was fine, you just overlooked it and all, you know, move on. You know what I mean? Like I have bigger problems than worrying about, you know, I just wanted to get out of the, out of the country at that time and all, you know, like, you know, so yeah, a lot of times it was just, you know, like I said, my mom writing or my or that Ron wrote to me and just. Tell me how much she's hoping and praying for me and all that stuff and everything else and all, you know, so basically it was, you know, like stuff like that. So, you know, I wasn't worrying about any letters or anything like that coming. I was just concerned about getting out of here. You know, I mean, getting out of there and 01:16:00stuff like that. So.

NITCH: Definitely understandable.

CUBBAGE: Right.

NITCH: Through the correspondence, did they tell you anything about you know, the antiwar movement over here or the civil rights movement or?

CUBBAGE: No, no, no, no, no, no, no. They never told me anything about that and all. You know what I mean?

NITCH: While you were in Vietnam, how like, over the course of the year and you were, you know, walking through the jungle, how often did you see combat, would you say?

CUBBAGE: More than I wanted to. I don't know how often it was was, you know, sometimes little skirmishes, sometimes you know, like you said, a sniper or so, or sometimes it wouldn't only be combat.

It would be somebody trapped on, you know, a grenade, or not a grenade. Oh, I 01:17:00can't think of even the name of it now. And you know. Landmine, like and all, you know what I mean? And stuff like that. So there was always something that was, you know, you had to react to and everything else and all, you know, so. And it's just a matter of not luck, but it was just a matter of whatever happened that day. You know what I mean? And sometimes you know you, you think a good day would be nobody got killed, nobody got wounded. You know, I mean, so, you know, guys would say it's a good day today. Nobody got killed, nobody got wounded. How true that was and all you know what I mean? Didn't happen every day, but it happened once a month and all, you know, and happened more than once a month. That's 12 times in a year. You know, if you figure that out and all so, you know how I never, never tried to keep track of stuff like that and all you know, I mean, the thing is, you just try to put behind you, you know, I mean, 01:18:00like a, you know, I mean, somebody bought the farm or something like that and all, you just look ahead.

You know, I mean, like I said, there is a lot of sayings guys would say. Better him than me and, you know, stuff like that. And, you know, different sayings I can't remember now, but you know, I never really liked them at all, you know, but the people would use them and all. And you know what they were talking about and all, you know, so to me I don't know, I just moved on, you know? You know, I had a year there.

You got a year there and you're gonna get out of school then right? You got a year and you're getting out of school now. Now you got to find yourself a job, right?

NITCH: Mm-Hmm, Yeah.

CUBBAGE: Mom and dad ain't going to be supporting you anymore, are they?

NITCH: Yeah, it's it's it's-

CUBBAGE: Scary!

NITCH: Yeah, it's, I'm sure it's not-

CUBBAGE: I'm only messing with ya man, I'm only messing with ya, you know?

NITCH: Yeah, it's I'll figure it out (Laughter).

CUBBAGE: Well, you better, you know.

NITCH: Yeah, I'm just excited.

CUBBAGE: You know your dad, but I don't think he's going to keep you on his payroll for long, you know what I mean?NITCH: (Laughter)

CUBBAGE: I'm only teasing, man.

NITCH: No, I appreciate that (Laughter).

CUBBAGE: Had three on the payroll for a while.

NITCH: (Laughter) Right, yeah.

CUBBAGE: Right, yeah. They all graduated. I'm only teasing.

NITCH: (Laughter) Yeah, he's happy I'm graduating, so.

CUBBAGE: I bet he is, you know what I mean?NITCH: (Pause) So, over the course of your year in Vietnam and you know, going towards the end, how would you say your emotions changed from when you landed to when you were leaving?

CUBBAGE: Well, my emotions got, you know, I got the, at the end of the book if 01:20:00you read it, when I was getting out of 'Nam I was letting people know I was short. You know, we yell short, which meant you only had a short period of time. And like I said, I tell one time where I ain't going out on no patrol. There's a lot of guys back at base camp that, I didn't put that in the book. Those guys back at base camp that never went out for one reason or another, that one guy, Johnny Moore, that he didn't go out because he had rashes. You would get a rash or something and he would claim and he had it from, I don't know, from a doctor at home or something like that.

He couldn't go out in the jungle because the jungle would give him a rash or something like that. There's other guys that had different profiles that never went out. And I was, I was getting, I was getting down to 10 days or 15 days. I says I ain't goin out no more. To hell with it, you know what I mean? You know, like it said after an argument with the Sarge and the guy I knew, I went through 01:21:00basic, he didn't want no part for me either, you know, you know, he don't want no part of me. He ran up and he told the captain and the captain didn't want to do anything, he said he had enough combat. And they knew, like I was ready, that I just wanted to get out, you know what I mean? And I would have had to do that. You know, if I fought somebody or whatever would have happened would have happened and all, you know, I just said that I'm not going out no more, you know, you hear a lot of stories.

Guys went out the last day and they get killed. And you know, when you hear the last story, the guy went out on his last patrol, you know what I mean? And then, and then they, they got killed, they drove on a mine or they did something. And I already came back. I was on my last patrol, you know, and I don't want to go out again on a stupid ambush patrol at nighttime, you know, back at base camp. 01:22:00You know, I wasn't. I was fed up with it at the time, you know what I mean? So I was ready to go home. You know, I mean, like my tour of duty was over with as far as I was concerned, even though I was maybe 10 or 15 days before, you know what I mean? Like when I only had like 10 days left and I sort of they sort of just let me in the back and and do, do whatever I wanted to do, you know what I mean? So I was happy, you know. Afterwards I realized that, you know what I mean? But I'm sure other guys did the same thing basically.

I didn't hear about, with different companies. So I was ready to, you know, like you said, I was done! You know what I mean? So I just wanted to get on the, on the truck and get on the plane and leave now, you know what I mean? Like, nothing good came. I mean, nothing good happened to me. And now, as far as I was 01:23:00concerned, and all, you know what I mean? So that was it.

NITCH: Did you suffer any major injuries while you were over there, or was it?

CUBBAGE: I got wounded and stuff like that, but not bad, you know, stuff like that. So, I'm all right. You know what I mean?

NITCH: Where were you wounded?

CUBBAGE: In the leg and all, you know, and my ears was punctured and stuff like that, I was bleeding from the ears and, you know, stuff like that. So, little hard of hearing sometimes, but other than that, I'm all right. You know, so, my wife thinks I'm hard of hearing.

NITCH: (Laughter) One of the most interesting aspects of the war that I, you know, think about a lot and something that you mentioned a lot in the book was Agent Orange and just kind of the effects that it had on, you know, the people 01:24:00who are serving and then, you know, their kids, you know, how did it affect you at all?

CUBBAGE: Well, my lungs are bad. Almost, you know, my lungs are bad, I can't breathe, you know, like. My lungs with Agent on them, Agent Orange. And before I used to be able to swim under water, pretty, pretty good of maybe the length of the pool. And this and that and all and come back. And now I can't do that. When I got my Covid, when I got sick, that almost killed me because I couldn't breathe.

It hits. It hits the weakest part of your body. So my lungs are bad and when Covid hit, I couldn't breathe. I, you know, like I said, they were going to put me on a ventilator and I said, no. I said, tell my wife that I made my own choice, that if I make it, I make it. I was in 10 days of critical condition, so 01:25:00I couldn't breathe. I mean, I was really fighting to, you know, every breath. And then after 10 days, they brought me into another unit and all and I got out of the critical condition. I don't know how they figured out I made it so far, but they, they figured out, you know what I mean? And then I started getting better. But I still have, I still need oxygen at nighttime and stuff like that. So, yeah, that's the worst thing is my lungs, I guess and all.

And I knew friends of mine and I know other guys that I knew that their kids were deformed and everything else and all. And I know guys that died 10, 15 years later, of some type of cancer. You know what I mean? They, the stuff that they breathe that takes a long time. The body takes a lot of beating before it goes and everything else and all. I knew guys that had that their kids were deformed with, you know, no legs or something like that or arms or, maybe 01:26:00retarded or something like that. They can't prove that it was Agent Orange, but they believe so.

I had one friend, Bob Marino. He didn't have any kids until 10 years after he left Vietnam. He was afraid that they were going to have, you know, he's got two daughters now, so they're beautiful. But he didn't want any kids for, you know, for 10 years because he wanted to get that out of his system and everything else.

So, you know, and stuff like that. So, you know, it affected a lot of people, you know, I mean, Agent Orange and all. So, you know, and it still affects people. I mean, people that could die 50 years later probably die, you know, it's a slow death, but something happens to them, or they may get some type of cancer or they can't, you know, like I said, my lungs aren't that good anymore, so I got to worry about that, you know? But you know, it's life.

NITCH: It's definitely horrible, but I'm also very glad to hear that you were 01:27:00able to make it through that because it was definitely getting rough for a while there.

CUBBAGE: A little bit ruggeder than a lot of people thought I was and all but it's okay, you know.

NITCH: (Laughter) Good to hear. So, um, when you came back and, you know, you're in the states again, how were you feeling, you know, after your service was complete?

CUBBAGE: I felt good, you know, I was back and, you know, I, I took a trip around the country, took a trip around the country because, you know, I got upset or something like that in the house. I lived at home at the time, my mother and father, you know, the very beginning. And then they're all ah, you know, you want to go nuts and all, you know?

You know, I mean, so I felt that I needed to take a trip. So I ended up taking a trip around the country. And I think that helped me a lot and all, you know, I mean, I, I got my money out of the bank or whatever I had and I had a car and I, 01:28:00me and a friend of mine, we took a trip around the country and we went, you know, went down to Mexico.

We went to California and then we, you know, Florida. So we rode all around the country, you know, for about four months. And I think that helped me a lot more and all, you know what I mean? And stuff like that, so, I was very, you know, after I came back, I think, you know, I was still on a lot, you know, like I said and I began to forget about a lot of things, excuse me, forget about a lot of things and everything else and, you know, just wanted to move on with my life and all, you know, stuff like that and all, you know. So, you know.

NITCH: Understandable, for sure. Did you take that trip like as soon as you got back?

CUBBAGE: I don't know, it's hard to remember exactly. Wasn't long afterwards, it 01:29:00might have been a month or two. You know, it wasn't long afterwards, so I just needed, I just needed to get away. I think, you know, I mean, like I said, that things weren't working out at the house or anything like that. Not that I was upset or anything like that. But if you got a little upset or something bothered you, you know, you just snap out a little bit. I could tell by everybody that they wanted their back, uh-oh he's into the combat mode or something like that and all, you know what I mean? So I figured that nah, just let me get out of here, you know, get out of Philadelphia and, and and try to see what I can see around the country and everything else and all, you know? So, you know.

NITCH: I totally get that. What, what was hard to adjust to like when you came back?

CUBBAGE: I don't know.

NITCH: Anything?

CUBBAGE: No, I don't remember I just, you know, like I said, I just knew that I needed to get away.

And, you know what I mean? From my parents and you know, I, I, not that I didn't, you know, I could tell I got upset or something like that they thought I had something, you know what I mean? And I'd go nuts or something like that. I guess they all heard guy's go nuts or whatever, you know, World War II guys or whatever. So I just wanted to get away, you know, once I got away, I think, you know, I mean I started doing things and you know, I was on my own, you know what I mean? So, I was riding around sleeping in cars and, you know, my car or getting a hotel, you know, not every night, but once in a while. We could shower and stuff like that and went out to California. We went out to Mexico and, you know, just, just driving around. You know what I mean? Like, you know, and 01:31:00that's, that's it. I was content with that, I guess, and all, you know?

NITCH: And were you personally affected by the, you know, the anti-war protesters and just kind of the harsh treatment that some veterans had when they came back?

CUBBAGE: Well, not really. You know, I don't care one way or the other, I come back, I could tell you that, like I said, people would look at me when I was in uniform, coming home and everything else. Nobody said, you know, nobody said, you know, like, welcome home or anything. No, it did affect me. I looked, but they didn't want to talk to me, which was okay, you know, but I didn't care one way or the other, you know?

And then after a while, I don't want to say that I was in 'Nam for a while and I didn't care. You know, so you go back and forth, you know, so I don't care one way or the other and all, you know what I mean? So.

So when I went around the country, you know, I think I had, like I had fatigues 01:32:00on. So they knew I was in the army. Like, you know, like you said a couple of times, cops stopped us and everything else and all, you know, for speeding or something like that and all. And I told them, we just, I just got out of 'Nam and they let me go, you know, and stuff like that. And also, you know, I don't think one way or the other. You know, I don't know, you know what I mean? So, I never analyzed all that stuff. Yeah.

NITCH: What kind of work did you do like when you came back? What was your employment?

CUBBAGE: Oh, I got different jobs. I didn't want to go back to my old job. I got jobs with driving a truck and stuff like that when I started working. I had friends of mine at Aluminum Siding and stuff like that, and I worked for them for a while. You know, contracts that I did that, but off and on and a couple of 01:33:00other jobs I had. And that when the summer came, I quit and I moved down the shore and stayed down the shore and did work, you know, I mean, and stuff like that, you know, for the summer, I, you know, I was content with that for a couple of years, you know, and then after I came back from, after I came back from going around the country, that's what I did. I had a few jobs and then I really wasn't ready to settle down and anything like that and all. No.

And then I decided, you know, and you know, I had a job, I had a job, but by then I didn't, you know, I mean, and stuff like that, and I went down the shore this summer and we took summers off, and that's where I met my wife and everything else down Margate, where she showed up when I met her, and then we started going out.

Then I realized that I'm going to have to, you know, find a way to take it to 01:34:00the next step. I'm going to have to get a job and do something, you know what I mean? And basically, I became, you know, like a truck driver, you know, for great fare and for Frito-Lay and different jobs like that. And the Post Office, stuff like that. So.

NITCH: And when did you, when did you start talking about your experiences as a motivational speaker?

CUBBAGE: A while ago, I guess a few years ago, I started talking and I always told these different stories and all. I had different stories, that I sit around with different guys from Vietnam and we talk about, you know, stories and I always told these stories and all, you know. So, when the pandemic came around, 01:35:00we couldn't leave the house and my wife got me a tape recorder and I started taping there. She said, Well, you want to sit down and you want to tell the stories that you've told, that you always tell, but then where am I gonna start from? So she said, Well, you remember basic training. So now I have to think about basic training, and I had to think about the guys that I knew in basic training, that was in Vietnam with me. And, you know, and then I have a, you know, then I went on and on and on.

So I had to figure out from the very beginning how things were, you know what I mean? And then over to 'Nam, then I had to think of the different stories and 'Nam that I had to put them in order, you know, like some was before this, and you know, how to make it where it made sense, everything else and all. I could have jumped around.

You know what I mean? But it wouldn't have made a lot of sense to everybody. But as I told the more stories, as I started remembering more stories, I would 01:36:00remember what came before, you know, before this and you know, what came before that and everything else and all, you know, who got killed first and everything else and all, you know? So, you know, that's what I had to do. So that was the hard part about it all.

NITCH: Mm-Hmm. And after you finished writing the book or, you know, speaking about your experiences, how did you feel? Were you happy to get your, you know, your stories out?

CUBBAGE: Yeah, yeah. I was surprised how many people liked it and everything else and all. And then I had good friends of mine, phone me up and say, I cried. I remember a lot of things that happened to me and this and that and all and some guys said, you know, yeah, but he says that's you talking. You know, I could tell that that's you, you know, so I had a lot of good, everybody that 01:37:00read it said they like it, I mean you know what I mean? And so I was happy with it and all. And so now I got a part time job. I'm going around, I'm going to go around and talking to American legions and VFWs, and if I sell five books, I sell five books. If I sell, you know, I don't sell any, I'm, I don't need, you know what I mean? I don't have to sell them. But you know, I like, I like doing it any way and all. And I got posters and I got stuff like that and I went around where people see my posters and everything else and all, you know, so they buy my book, so I'm happy with it.

NITCH: Yeah, it was an awesome read. I thought it was very interesting.

CUBBAGE: Did you like it and all? Good.

NITCH: Yeah, no, I loved all the stories and stuff. I thought it was very cool. It was definitely worth it.

CUBBAGE: Listen, I'm on not Facebook, I'm on Amazon. No, not Amazon. More now. 01:38:00What's it called? I have a website.

NITCH: Mm-Hmm.

CUBBAGE: On Edmondcubbage.com I think it is. I'd like you, if you've read my, when you read my book, to get on to be read by when you read my book, to get on that. My niece put the website on and the more people that what is on, you know, get on that one, it goes around the country, I mean, all around the world. So she's got it on that. She's got it on the web, you know more about it than I do with the website and all, you know, any of that www.edmond or whatever.

NITCH: Yeah.

CUBBAGE: Make a comment on it, (Laughter) you know what I mean? And don't make it bad. Don't make me come down looking for you, you know, I'm only teasing.

NITCH: I gotcha. I will leave a five star comment.

CUBBAGE: What?

NITCH: I'll leave a five star comment for ya.

CUBBAGE: Thank you. But what I'm saying is it's on the website now. And the more you tell anybody, ask them to put a comment on the website or whatever. You 01:39:00know, I appreciate it and all. How I'm getting around is not, I got it on, I'm advertising at a couple of places, but not many, you know, and I don't have to go nationwide or whatever. So I'm selling books and all. I'm doing all right with it and everything else and all, you know, am I going to make a million? I don't think so, but you know what I mean? I'm not up there with those big guys and all it's got names. I'm, I'm happy with it, you know?

NITCH: Yeah, no, I'm majoring in history, so I think it's really important for all these stories to get out.

CUBBAGE: Well, I tell stories about the red ants and other things that we had to fight with. The leeches of everything else. They weren't easy to deal with, you know, especially when you're under combat and all, you know, I mean, with people are shooting at you and everything else and all. And you got, you got the ants biting you and everything else and I said that in the book. How many guys got killed in 'Nam or whether he wanted to move the hell away from the ants and all, 01:40:00you know, and they end up being bit at and anything else, and they end up getting killed, and the leeches are the same thing. You know, we went through swamps and you get out of the swamp, you got to take your clothes off and you know, somebody's got to check you in the back and everything else. Then you got leeches on there? Those leeches grow big, you know, I mean, like they drain all your blood out of you, everything else and all. We used to burn them off with cigarettes and, you know, just touch them and you would squeeze and that's your blood that came out, that they, they sucked out of you and everything else and all, you know, so it wasn't an easy and things like that. So well, you know, well, it's one of those things.

NITCH: Definitely small, just things like that just have to add up over time, just the ants, the heat, the rain.

CUBBAGE: Exactly. You know, it takes a, it takes a toll on you. You know what I 01:41:00mean? So, and there are a lot of people, like I said, a lot of people, I'm sure people have died of ammonia and everything else after they came home and, from you know, being out there and everything else and all. So, yeah.

NITCH: So nowadays, how do you stay in touch with the friends you made from?

CUBBAGE: They phone me or I call them. I called a friend of mine yesterday.

Yes. We're going to go to a reunion in May, May 11th to I think like the 15th in Dollywood. It's not Kentucky, it's Tennessee. For Tennessee and all, so I'll see maybe about 15 guys there, you know? So.

NITCH: That's awesome.

CUBBAGE: Always good to see them.

NITCH: Yeah.

CUBAGE: And stuff like that, so. I keep in touch with the, I keep in touch with the, you know, four or five guys, the guys from Chicago and the guys, you know, some of the guys from, that's in the book and everything else and all so.

NITCH: And where are you guys living now?

CUBBAGE: I live down, we live down the shore in New Jersey. You ever hear of Stone Harbor?

NITCH: Yeah.

CUBBAGE: Stone Harbor, Avalon or Wildwood? Yeah, we, I live, we live in Stone Harbor. We're not too far from Wildwood or whatever and all, you know?

NITCH: Very nice.

CUBBAGE: Yeah.

NITCH: Sure you're at the beach a lot (Laughter).

CUBBAGE: Yeah, yeah. Gerardina comes down. She brings the family down and her mom down. We're good friends with her mom and everything else and all, you know.

NITCH: Nice, nice.

CUBBAGE: Yeah.

NITCH: So, through talking about all these experiences, how, how would you say 01:43:00that serving in Vietnam has, you know, changed your life?

CUBBAGE: Well, it made my life better. You know, I didn't realize how big the world was and you know how much friendship meant to me and everything else and all. And then I don't know and hope I became a better person. You know, I mean, I got out and appreciate that I got out and then I appreciate all the guys that was lost there. You know, I mean, like, I think back and I, I get more emotional now because I think, well, fifty-some years and I'm still, I'm here and a lot of guys, they never made it through their 19th birthday or their 20th birthday.

You know, I mean, so, you know, like I said, how old are you now?

NITCH: I'm 21.

CUBBAGE: Well you would've been, you would've been gone a year, you know what I mean?

a lot of them didn't make it to 21, the only, you know, you may. I'm not being wise, I'm just saying. So, you know what I mean? And so I think about that. I think about that more now than ever. You know, I think, wow, and I'm lucky, you know, I got married and I got three kids and I got six grandkids. You know what I mean? And I got a lot of nieces and nephews. So I'm very, very fortunate in life and all, you know? So, you know, I think I did very well as far as that and all, you know? And, you know, I never thought that far ahead. But now I think back, you know, like I said, I think back when I said to myself, Wow, you know, you are lucky, you know, you know, and how did I get so lucky? I don't know, you know, I mean, that can probably bother you too sometimes and all, you know, but I'm here. That's where it counts and all, you know, so.

NITCH: I'm sure a lot of things are just put into perspective like that.

CUBBAGE: Right, you know, it's hard, you know, you know, you, you know, you 01:45:00wonder sometimes, but you know, hey, I'm, I'm moving forward. You know, you got to move forward. And all, you know. So, that's what I think about all, you know. So.

NITCH: I think that's the best way you can look at it.

CUBBAGE: Yeah, so I get an A for this or what?

NITCH: Oh, of course. Yes (Laughter). A-plus, honestly.

CUBBAGE: Okay, I just asked and all, you know? No problem.

NITCH: Yeah! Is there, is there anything that I didn't ask you that you kind of wish I did?

CUBBAGE: No, that's fine. You asked me, you know, what I thought and I told you and I can't think of no more. And I just moved on in life and all, you know, you got to try to move on. Do you think about your old friends and do you think about different things that happened? Sure, you do. But you know, like, you got to move on, you know, I mean, like, life is too short not to move on, you know, I mean, so that's how I look at it. You know, so I'm happy where I'm at now at 01:46:00the time. But you know, we're retired and we live in a nice place down the shore now and all, you know, not Philadelphia, anything like that. So it's a lot nicer, calmer and everything else and all, you know, so you know. I don't know, you know what I mean, so, you know, live someplace else, who knows how it would be? I don't know. You know, well, you can't help.

NITCH: Yeah, it's weird how life works sometimes.

CUBBAGE: Yeah. Tell me about it and all, you know?

NITCH: All right. Well, that should be good.

CUBBAGE: Did you see Gerardina?

NITCH: What's that?

CUBBAGE: You see Gerry, Gerardina, my niece?

NITCH: Oh, no, not yet. Not yet.

CUBBAGE: I'm sorry. I called her Gerry. Miss Martin. Okay.

NITCH: (Laughter)

CUBBAGE: You know. Yeah. Tell her I did well! All right?

NITCH: Yeah, you did great. I haven't talked to her yet, but I'm going to send her an email today and hopefully meet up with her.

CUBBAGE: Okay. Let her know I can't wait to see her again. For her to come down again and they come down. I enjoy them. You know, so all right! That's the only thing I could say. I'm, you know, I don't know what else to say about 'Nam, you know what I mean?

NITCH: Oh yeah.

CUBBAGE: It was a war and you know, I'm happy that I wrote about it, though like I said, it made me feel good. It made me remember things that I forgot about and everything else and all, you know what I mean? So, and I think that's what kept me alive is I'd forgotten about a lot of them and I just didn't think nothing of it afterwards and all you know, but you know, and we decided when I decided to put it on, put it in a book and all, I started thinking, then things came back and I'm happy, you know, and so I could have probably put more in there if I 01:48:00read things I, I coulda had more. But you know what? I'm fine with it and all, you know, stuff like that.

NITCH: I think it's great.

CUBBAGE: Thank you. Thank you. You know. All right?

NITCH: All righty. Thank you for conducting this interview with me. I really appreciate it.

CUBBAGE: No problem any time at all, you know? All right. You take care now and all, you know?