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Partial Transcript: A little bit about myself, um, I feel like that's--
Segment Synopsis: Claire Hilbrecht says she is currently working at a summer camp in Louisville, Kentucky but has lived in Lexington since receiving her undergraduate degree in 2017. She mentions her past work with the Urban Forest Initiative and her current graduate program in geography at the University of Kentucky. She describes being raised in a catholic household, attending catholic schools, and her relationship to the environment. She says as a kid she preferred being indoors, but found an interest in outdoor activities through her friends who enjoyed hiking and camping.
Keywords: Camping; Catholic schools; Catholicism; Geography; Hiking; Lexington (Ky.); Louisville (Ky.); Nature; Outdoor activities; UK Department of Geography; University of Kentucky; Urban Forest Initiative; Summer camps
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Partial Transcript: How else do you think that's affected you--
Segment Synopsis: Hilbrecht acknowledges how growing up with a stay-at-home mom and being able to participate in any extracurriculars she wanted was a privilege. She explains how attending Holy Trinity School and Sacred Heart Academy in Louisville allowed her to grow up in a calm environment with passionate teachers who teach strong morals. She mentions her personal issues with catholic social justice practices, homophobia in catholic schools, and learning among cisgender men. She says she is not very religious now, but feels a strong connection to spirituality and the environment. Then, she describes her transition from private catholic schooling to attending the University of Kentucky.
Keywords: Catholic schools; Catholicism; Cisgender; Cisgender men; Environmentalism; Extracurriculars; Homophobia; Louisville (KY); Nature; Religions; Sacred Heart Academy; Social justice; Spirituality; University of Kentucky (UK); Holy Trinity School
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Partial Transcript: Did you already have a major declared--
Segment Synopsis: Hilbrecht says she changed her major many times while attending the University of Kentucky (UK), but graduated with an undergraduate degree in natural resources and environmental science. She says that she began to dislike her traditional science courses after reading the critiques of western science, noting that she wished she had focused more on social sciences and environmental and sustainability studies. She discusses her work with UK's Urban Forest Initiative's climate adaptation project, which involved surveying of trees and gaining an understanding of Lexington's tree canopy.
Keywords: Climate; Climate adaptation; Environmental science; Environmentalism; Lexington (Ky.); Natural resources; Sciences; Social sciences; Sustainability; Tree canopies; Urban Forest Initiative (UFI); Western science; University of Kentucky
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Partial Transcript: Current master's project, which, um, draws--
Segment Synopsis: Hilbrecht says she is crafting her master's project, which draws upon feminist theory, geography, and decoloniality. She explains how the process of performing research can be more useful than the product, but says this is dependent on the researchers goals and how they will use their data. She discusses the need for biodiversity in Lexington's tree canopy, saying that tree canopy's are better protected from climate change with increased diversity. She mentions how it is important to think about diversity, not just in ecology, but also within social communities to build climate resilience.
Keywords: Activism; Biodiversity; Climate change; Climate resilience; Decolonialization; Diversity; Ecology; Environmentalism; Geography; Graduate programs; Lexington (KY); Tree canopy; University of Kentucky (UK); Feminism
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Partial Transcript: Okay, so, going back to, um, actually I want to go back further--
Segment Synopsis: Hilbrecht describes how her parents helped her develop her interest in social justice, morals, and radical activism, through lessons on environmentalism and community work. She recounts a story about her great grandmother, who was a single mother that raised seven children during Great Depression, and how she still took time to make food for her neighbors even though she was struggling financially. Then, she discusses the UK's Gaines Center for the Humanities, saying that she was able to learn and discuss varying topics in an interdisciplinary space, which led her to her undergraduate research topic on diverse perspectives of the hallucinogenic plant ayahuasca.
Keywords: Activism; Ayahuasca; Environmentalism; Interdisciplinary programs; Lexington (KY); Morals; Radicalism; Social justice; The Great Depression; Undergraduate research; University of Kentucky (UK); Gaines Center for the Humanities
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Partial Transcript: You had dropped the geography major--
Segment Synopsis: Hilbrecht explains why she chose to study geography at the University of Kentucky, mentioning influential political ecology and feminist science courses taught by Dr. Betsy Beymer-Farris and the interdisciplinary nature of the program. She describes how her master's thesis will use the research she conducted at the Urban Forestry Initiative (UFI), focusing on the lost encounter with trees within the process of data collection. She says she would like to collaborate with artists, ecologists, and geographers to capture the visualization of tree sampling and assessment. She then explains why she may not pursue a PhD, noting how she oftentimes views academia as an inaccessible and competitive environment.
Keywords: Academia; Artists; Beymer-Farris, Betsy; Ecologists; Ecology; Feminist science; Geographers; Geography; Social sciences; Tree canopy; Tree sampling; University of Kentucky (UK); Urban Forestry Initiative (UFI); Political Ecology
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Partial Transcript: What you just described, like the ideal--
Segment Synopsis: Hilbrecht describes her involvement with the Dimensions of Political Ecology (DOPE), a collective of political ecology researchers who collaborate on the intersection of the environment and society. She notes Chris Keeve's past work with DOPE and community program's he developed, such as the seed keeping and trade network called DOPE Seeds, a book club named DOPE Reads, and the Method/ologies Lab. She also mentions her mentor Dr. Mary Arthur, who helped her get involved with the Urban Forestry Initiative (UFI), political ecology conferences, community and activism work, and Tree Week.
Keywords: Activism; Arthur, Mary; DOPE Reads; DOPE Seeds; Dimensions of Political Ecology (DOPE); Environmentalism; Political ecology; Tree Week; University of Kentucky (UK); Urban Forestry Initiative (UFI); Keeve, Chris
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Partial Transcript: Can you talk a little bit about what Tree Week is--
Segment Synopsis: Hilbrecht describes Tree Week, an annual celebration of trees in Lexington (KY) with activities designed to promote appreciation for the city's tree canopy, such as outdoors yoga, hiking, and tree walks. She mentions Fayette County Public Schools (FCPS) involvement in Tree Week due to Tresine Logsdon, an FCPS sustainability coordinator. Then, she says Dr. Mary Arthur wanted to introduce climate change to Tree Week, which led to Logsdon suggesting the Tree Week yard sign campaign and the creation of Climate Conversations. She discusses Climate Conversations and how the original group disbanded due to lack of community engagement, leadership burnout, and a need to reorganize its structure.
Keywords: Activism; Arthur, Mary; Climate Conversations; Climate change; Environmentalism; Fayette County Public Schools (FCPS); Hiking; Logsdon, Tresine; Outdoor activities; Sustainability coordinators; Tree Week; Tree canopy; Tree walks; Yard signs; Yoga; Lexington (KY)
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Partial Transcript: I took time off in the fall--
Segment Synopsis: Hilbrecht says she took time off of school during the 2022 fall semester to work as a volunteer manager for Hannah LeGris' political campaign and join the United Campus Workers (UCW). She explains how after LeGris won her campaign, she reconnected with Dr. Mary Arthur to restart Climate Conversations. She discusses how Alex and Christine Smith helped develop a card game with tiered questions about climate change, that helped community members start conversations and build empathy for the environment. She says Climate Conversations is more decentralized, is encouraging collective labor in climate activism, and is helping libraries facilitate the climate yard sign campaign.
Keywords: Activism; Arthur, Mary; Climate Conversations; Climate activism; Climate change; Environmentalism; LeGris, Hannah; Libraries; Political campaigns; Smith, Alex; United Campus Workers (UCW); Yard signs; Smith, Christine
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Partial Transcript: What draw's me to this work is--
Segment Synopsis: Hilbrecht describes how many sustainability organizations are exclusive, which leads to the idea that people have to choose if they are working in favor of the climate or are sectioning off climate work from their life. She says one of Dr. Mary Arthur's goals is to normalize climate change and that Climate Conversations integrates this goal by encouraging community members to develop an intimate relationship with climate rather than a compartmentalized one. She explains how Climate Conversations has developed since the COVID-19 pandemic, specifically the strong connections built within the community and the depth of conversations at group meetings.
Keywords: Activism; COVID-19 (disease); Climate Conversations; Climate activism; Climate change; Community programs; Environmentalism; Nature; Pandemics; Sustainability; Sustainability organizations; Arthur, Mary
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Partial Transcript: Which is, I want to ask you about the--
Segment Synopsis: Hilbrecht describes working with kids at the Passionist Earth and Spirit Center's summer camp, saying her job title is garden educator. She says she teaches kids about gardening through hands on activities and games about ecology. She discusses how she tries to foster a space where it's not bad to touch plants or get messy. She explains how she uses Robin Wall Kimmerer's "The Honorable Harvest" to teach kids how to respect the nature, and is learning how to work with kids, figuring out what motivates them, and how to set them up for success. Then, she recounts acting in historical reenactments at Locust Grove, noting how Locust Grove is currently dealing with its history of being a slave plantation.
Keywords: "The Honorable Harvest" by Robin Wall Kimmerer; Ecology; Environmentalism; Gardening; Gardens; Historical reenactments; Kimmerer, Robin W.; Locust Grove; Louisville (KY); Plantations; Slavery; Summer camps; Passionist Earth and Spirit Center
CAGLE: This is Lauren Cagle. I'm interviewing Claire Hilbrecht and I'm going to
get Claire to confirm the pronunciation.HILBRECHT: It's Hilbrecht.
CAGLE: It is Hilbrecht--
HILBRECHT: --yeah, like with a K--
CAGLE: --okay, I am leaning into my German background--
HILBRECHT: --yeah--
CAGLE: --with that I’m realizing--
HILBRECHT: --yeah, yeah, probably was Hilbrecht at some point.
CAGLE: Yes.
HILBRECHT: --(Laughs)--
CAGLE: Hilbrecht. Uh, we are in my office on the University of Kentucky campus.
Today is Saturday, June 23rd? Fourth. June 24th, 2023. Um, and we are recording this to go into the Kentucky Climate Consortium's Kentucky Climate Oral History Project. So, hi Claire.HILBRECHT: Hi.
CAGLE: Hi. Um, so Claire, tell me a little bit about yourself.
HILBRECHT: Oh. Um, a little bit about myself. Um, I feel like that's always
changing. Right now, though, um, I'm living in Louisville for the summer and working at a summer camp, which has been very fun. 00:01:00Um, I’ve lived in Lexington, though, for the past six years. I went to undergrad at the University of Kentucky starting in 2017. I graduated in 2021. Um, worked for a year with the Urban Forest Initiative, and then I, um, went back to graduate school. So, I'm currently a graduate student in the Department of Geography. Um, I'm originally from Louisville, Kentucky. I went to Catholic school, um, in grade school and in high school. So, born and raised Catholic. Um, and yeah, I have two siblings, um, and my parents are--(laughs)--are great. I'm enjoying living with them right now--CAGLE: --mm-hmm [affirmative]--
HILBRECHT: --so, family is important to me. And, um, I think that’s--I like
being outside. I like to dance. Those are the kind of things about me.CAGLE: Are you oldest of the siblings?
HILBRECHT: No, I'm the middle child.
CAGLE: You’re the middle child--
HILBRECHT: --yeah, and I have
00:02:00classic middle child tendencies.CAGLE: What does that mean?
HILBRECHT: Um, I would say that, um, I'm independent in many ways, but also
needy in other ways. I think I--I, um, like having attention from people and I like getting attention, but not in--but, kind of in like an overt way, I guess--CAGLE: --mm-hmm--
HILBRECHT: --um, that's very kind of middle child, kind of angsty--
CAGLE: --mm-hmm [affirmative]--
HILBRECHT: --um, kind of that way, I guess.
CAGLE: The point, you want to appreciate me but not perceive me--
HILBRECHT: --yeah--
CAGLE: --kind of thing?
HILBRECHT: --yeah, exactly.
CAGLE: Yeah. So, are your siblings still in Kentucky as well?
HILBRECHT: My brother is not. He and his wife live in Washington, D.C. And well,
technically they live in Alexandria, but kind of in the D.C. area. And my sister is in North Carolina right now, but goes to school at Northern Kentucky University 00:03:00 .CAGLE: And do they do environmental, outside things too?
HILBRECHT: Um, my sister, no. We kind of like switched, um, uh, I don't know,
not roles, but my sister was very outdoorsy as a kid. She would always be outside, like never wore shoes, was always playing. Um, and I was kind of more inside, you know, very into, um, princesses and dress up and that kind of stuff. And then, I guess in high school slash college, we kind of switched. Now she's very much someone who will be inside and, um, you know, getting dressed up and stuffm, and I'm the one who's outside camping and hiking. Um, my brother likes to camp and hike, uh, but he is living the city life right now, I would say.CAGLE: I would never have pegged you for an indoor kid--
HILBRECHT: --yeah--
CAGLE: --as a kid--
HILBRECH: --totally, totally.
CAGLE: What changed?
HILBRECHT: Um, you know actually I was talking to my mom about this recently,
about that kind of like, 00:04:00it's funny to see pictures of me and my sister now. Like I'll be, you know, in like docs and in like a polo and she's in a dress and high heels. And, we were thinking about what changed. I think in high school, I started, I don't know, like I never really, never really like, I always did the kind of like popular kid look poorly--(both laugh)--you know, so I went to like a Catholic school--CAGLE: --that’s so evocative. I’m sorry--
HILBRECH: --yeah, no, totally. I went to a Catholic school, right? And so like,
I was surrounded by a lot of really wealthy kids. And I, we weren't by any means, like low income, but we didn't have like tons of money to spare. And also my parents were like, that's ridiculous. You do not need to be shopping at these stores. You don't need all these clothes. So, I was kind of like wanted to have all the kind of kind of stuff. And then it just kind of didn't really work out. [00;04:00] And, um, I just hung out with the kids that were similar to me kind of more, um, you know, when I was growing up, like the hipster era was the ideal for kind of, I guess, queer kids. Um, though at the time, I didn't identify as queer, but all of my friends ended up coming out as queer anyway. So yeah, and so then we just kind of, we just kind of kind of formed this little our own original kind of vibe. And, um, that landed me with people who liked to be outdoors in college. And I started rock climbing and hiking more and camping more. So, then I started thinking outside. That's a long, that's a long way to put that. But, I think just like a series of events where I just didn't quite fit the mold and then ended up, um, landing with people who did outdoor things, I guess.CAGLE: That's really interesting though, the process that like you found your
people first and then the 00:05:00sort of, and then took on activities and interests--HILBRECHT: --mm-hmm [affirmative]--
CAGLE: --sort of related to that--
HILBRECHT: --yeah, yeah--
CAGLE: --social group rather than the other way around.
HILBRECHT: Yes, totally. Totally.
CAGLE: That's interesting. And then it stuck, right?
HILBRECHT: Yeah, absolutely.
CAGLE: Yeah. And now, I would imagine you're now a person on the other end of
this where people like you and want to hang out with you and then you get them to do outdoorsy things.HILBRECHT: Yeah. I would say that happened with my roommate and close friend.
Totally., um, yeah.CAGLE: Yeah. You're like the next generation --(both laugh).
HILBRECHT: Yeah, exactly.
CAGLE: Yeah, Speaking of generations, okay, so that hipster period, that would
have been like what, late 2000s?HILBRECHT: Yes, um--
CAGLE: --yeah-
HILBRECHT: --yeah, 2012, 13, kind of--
CAGLE: --yeah, somewhere in there--
HILBRECHT: --yeah--
CAGLE: --yeah, that's really interesting. So, I also went to private school for
a while and we had a similar stratification where it wasn't necessarily just money, but it was like markers of money--HILBRECHT: --mm-hmm [affirmative], totally
00:06:00 --CAGLE: --made distinctions. Um, did you--so you said you went to the Catholic
school all the way through--HILBRECHT: --mm-hmm [affirmative], yes--
CAGLE: --start to finish--
HILBRECHT: --yeah--
CAGLE: --yeah. Um, how else do you think that's affected you?
HILBRECHT: Um, well, I mean, it put me in a very privileged position. I mean,
that and my financial background, like I said, my parents did well. I had--my mom was a stay-at-home mom. Um, so, being able to, um, have that support from her, I mean, she drove us everywhere. So, I got to do any extracurricular that I wanted to do. We grew up playing sports. I danced. Any clubs that I wanted to join, we didn't really do camps as much, but if we wanted to do camps, we probably could have made that happen. Um, and then there are just tons of opportunities in Catholic school. It's such a--for the most part, calm environment. And, um, you know, my partner works in the public school system, or he did as a paraeducator. And so, 00:07:00I just hear all the stories from him and from his daughter with the public school system just being a complete wreck and being a very high-stress environment. But for me, it was very, very calm. Um, we had great teachers who wanted, um, all who wanted to be there. You know, if you're working in a Catholic school, you're not getting paid that much, so you probably do it because you like it. It instilled in us, uh, strong morals, you know, even despite all of its, um, heinous, uh--(both laugh)--leanings in many cases. Catholicism does still have strong social justice practices. And so, I think caring for others, the golden rule, love or treat others how you'd want to be treated, um, applied also to the natural world. And I think that really, like Jesus was like someone who I really looked 00:08:00up to as a kid. Um, and now I'm not so much religious, but that spirituality is still a part of who I am. And so, I think that is very much, um, integrated in how I view the environment and connect with the environment, that spirituality. So that paired with like, you know, following Jesus's footsteps, I guess, kind of instilled in me a strong moral compass and social justice leaning.CAGLE: That makes a lot of sense. I think of you as someone who's really
justice-oriented in everything you do. And this was Holy Trinity, right?HILBRECHT: Yeah, so I went to Holy Trinity for grade school and Sacred Heart
Academy for high school. And that also, Sacred Heart Academy is an all-girls school. And,--CAGLE: --oh--
HILBRECHT: --um, so being with, um, I mean, not everyone identified as females
at the time. And now, now it's a really, the school is extremely anti-queer--CAGLE: --oh, that’s unfortunate--
HILBRECHT: --and at the time it was, it wasn't queer, super queer-friendly, but
not as like grossly 00:09:00homophobic as it is now. But anyway, that just goes to say there were no, um, cis men in my classes, and that was really helpful for my development as well.CAGLE: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. How so?
HILBRECHT: You know, I think especially, I mean, I don’t--I can't say for the
younger generations how it feels, but at least when I was growing up, um, I did--when I was in the room with cis men, I did feel like I was a lot quieter and a lot more afraid to speak my mind. But, um, in, in, um, an environment where there weren't cis men, that made it so that it was just women or, or queer folks being able to take up space.CAGLE: And you went from that environment to the University of Kentucky--
HILBRECHT: --yes--
CAGLE: --which is a land-grant university with at any given time
twenty-something thousand undergraduates--HILBRECHT: --mm-hmm [affirmative]--
CAGLE: --of all
00:10:00backgrounds and genders, and, so how was that transition for you?HILBRECHT: Um, it was easy--
CAGLE: --yeah--
HILBRECHT: --yeah, I, uh, I came in extremely confident, right? I had all of
these things that were, um, that made me feel confident, like my upbringing. My mom was very dedicated to us and, and let us--made us feel like we could do anything, so I was always kind of feeling like that and everything that I did. So I came into UK very confident. I didn't quite find my people until the first month, but, um, and that's when I found the rock climbing people. Um, but I was definitely feeling well equipped to make my way, I guess. Uh, the interesting thing is that I was very high strung in grade school and high school, and actually being in a larger university made me relax a lot more. And, you know, at first 00:11:00I was still very high strung, and then I kind of realized that there's so many people here that they're not all going to know who Claire Hilbrecht is, and that's perfectly fine. Um, and so I was able to kind of pick and choose where I wanted to put my energy and where I could just relax, and that's been very helpful in my development.CAGLE: That makes a lot of sense. Did you already have a major declared?
HILBRECHT: Yes, actually. I had--my major was geology because it's listed as,
um, earth, or environ--earth and environmental sciences or something like that. And, I thought that was sustainability--(both laugh)--um, so I then--and history was also my major. I changed my major a bunch. And then I dropped history, added natural resources and environmental science, which ended up being the major that I graduated with, and then eventually dropped geology for geography. After I studied abroad in China with a geography professor, that made me 00:12:00just realize how much geography is awesome, and then, um, then dropped that because I realized that I was taking too many classes and I just needed to relax. So I just had natural resources and environmental sciences where I landed.CAGLE: How did you find that program, the NRES program, if you were starting in
geology and history, you would have been mostly in the College of Arts and Sciences. NRES is a totally different college.HILBRECHT: Yeah, so one of my friends that I rock climbed with had that major,
and he just told me about it. And I met with Jerry Philpott, who was the, um, academic coordinator at the time, and she, um, told me about the major, and I was like, oh, this is what I wanted to do. So I, um, added that on.CAGLE: Was there a reason at the time that the other major that's sort of
similar here, the ENS environmental and sustainability studies was not?HILBRECHT: Yeah, now I wish I had done that--
CAGLE: --oh--
HILBRECHT: --um, but at the time, you know,
00:13:00I actually I applied to UK as a chemistry, incoming chemistry major--CAGLE: --(laughs).
HILBRECHT: I was a big science person. Um, so I thought I wanted to do science.
Now I have a lot of qualms about Western science. Um, and also, I'm not very good at it at all--(both laugh)--um, but, um, yeah, so I thought NRES was more of a science based program and ENS was more of a social science based program. Now again, I wish I had done. Well, no I don't wish I'd done anything, I think where I landed this great. Um, but I think that would have actually been, um, a more interesting fit for me because toward the end of my degree, the science classes were really starting to bug me.CAGLE: How come?
HILBRECHT: Um, well, I, I saw a--It’s a long, um, kind of, uh, I guess, shame
kind of shameful story because I, you know, how, um, how late teens, early twenties, 00:14:00uh, people can be when they find something and think that it's the best and then think--CAGLE: --we’ve all been there--
HILBRECHT: --that they know everything. Yeah, totally. So, I took a political
ecology class and, um, realized--I learned about the critiques of Western science. And I took that to heart because again, very justice oriented, and learning about the colonial, um, underpinnings of Western science and oppressive tendencies of Western science, both in thought and material practice really, um, upset me. And so, then I started viewing everything through a critical lens, not the positive, critical lens, but hateful one. And so, then I, I actually kind of regret not like, I regret that because I didn't make the most out of the classes that I still had to take within my major that I think I still could have gleaned, um, a lot of use from. But I, 00:15:00I was, you know, viewing it through a critical lens instead. And then it came, it took a couple of years for me to be able to slow down and, and, um, think more with my heart than with my, with through that critical gaze about these things. Again, those critiques of Western science are still there and still present. Um, but, um, I can be less hateful about it.CAGLE: Jumping ahead a little--
HILBRECHT: --mm-hmm [affirmative]--
CAGLE: --so we haven't talked about this yet, but you have done work that in
many ways draws on those techniques, right? Often with the citizen science kind of bent, but doing (clears throat) kind of, you know, measurements, data gathering and analysis in order to inform evidence-based choices, et cetera, et cetera. So, is that, how do you think about that kind of work? Like 00:16:00I'm thinking particularly about the tree inventory--HILBRECHT: --yeah--
CAGLE: --so, maybe say a little bit about what that project is and then if you
don't mind, and then how that--how you've managed to, to blend these things now.HILBRECHT: Yeah, totally. Um, that's a great question, and--
CAGLE: --thank you--
HILBRECHT: --something I’m continuing to grapple with--
CAGLE: --I agree--(both laugh)--
HILBRECHT: --yeah. Um, yeah so for a little bit of context, um, after, well, in
my, in my senior year of undergrad and, um, then after I graduated, I worked for the Urban Forest Initiative and I was primarily involved with their climate adaptation project, which involved, um, countless tree inventories. Um, so I spent three summers measuring thousands of trees in Lexington and I spent the academic years or like the off season when I was not in school, um, analyzing those data, using, um, scientific methods. And, 00:17:00um, I think what I learned from that, um, just in terms of practice is that science is very messy and there are a lot of choices that you make, um, that ideally would follow a scientific method, but don't always because that's science is, again, it's messy and it's a series of choices. And so, you know, we didn't really have a statistic, like we didn't use very many like statistics or anything. I have no idea how to do that. Um, but rather, I think we took it, we took the project as more of like a survey, surveying what kinds of trees were there, what condition they were in, kind of making, um, loose, but I think accurate correlations between, you know, um, socioeconomic status of neighborhoods and, you know, tree density or 00:18:00age of the neighborhood and tree species, uh, where the neighborhood is located in tree species. You know, those newer developments tend to have Calgary pear and red maple, whereas the older neighborhoods have giant pin oak trees and sycamores. Um, so I think it was just useful to go out into the field and see what we're dealing with with our tree canopy. Um, so actually--and this is where I'm kind of blending these things with my current master's project, which, um, draws heavily from, you know, feminist theory and geography and has, um, you know, which I'm still kind of thinking about how to do this in a way that's authentic and meaningful, but kind of, um, a decolonial drive. It’s that, I think the process of doing studies is more useful than the product in many ways, depending on 00:19:00like, what your goals are with the project. So, do I think that the reports that I made are going to be, you know, life-changing for the city of Lexington? No, but do I think that the conversations that we had with city officials and the knowledge that we gleaned through the process of making those reports or like some of the information from those reports could be life-changing. Like we found that I think it was like twenty-nine percent of our tree canopy based on our survey is red maple. And that's huge. And so being able to say, guys, this is like real, there is twenty-nine percent of our tree canopy, give or take, is red maple. We need to start planting other species. I think that that is super useful. Um, so I guess it just depends on what you're doing with it. I don't think that science is bad by any means. I don't think that we shouldn't be doing it. I think that it's important to integrate other ways of knowing. And I think that, um, 00:20:00where you publish that information is important. So, with our project, it was very locally oriented and, you know, it centered around local conversations. Otherwise, there was no point in the project. It brought in people through a, a canopy community tree inventory, which you were a part of. And I think that--CAGLE: --it was a lot of fun, I enjoyed it--
HILBRECHT: --yeah, I think that people were, I think it brings people out in a
way that's useful and has been useful for me and just looking at a tree, just taking the time to look at a tree and get to know the tree.CAGLE: Yeah.
HILBRECHT: So, I think it just depends. I don't think that what we did was
particularly extractive, but I think like some types of scientific projects can be extractive.CAGLE: Certainly. Yeah. Uh, why do we need to diversify from red maple?
HILBRECHT: Uh, okay. Yes, this is,
00:21:00I will explain this not in the way that I've been taught, but in the way that I taught, uh, kids this morning--uh, this week--CAGLE: --yay--
HILBRECHT: --when I was teaching them about trees. Um, so, um, imagine, and this
is what we did in our, this is what we did in our activity. We had index cards and on one side there were three different colors that the kids, uh, got. And, so each kid had an index card, but only three colors were represented. And so then I said, okay, so if you are a green card, you are an oak tree and our canopy just got affected by oak blight. So if you are a green card, you need to sit down because you got affected by oak blight. So you are now stressed or are dying. If you are a yellow card, you are a red maple tree and Asian longhorn beetle, which is an invasive species that bores into maple bark has 00:22:00entered Kentucky, which is true. Um, and so if you are a yellow card, then you sit down. And so then we saw how a group of fifteen kids went down to a group of three just by two catastrophic events. And then they flipped the card and on the other side there were nine different colors. And so I said, okay, now if you're a green card and you're oak still, you have oak blight, sit down, but only like one kid sat down and so on and so forth. And so we went through like, you know, twelve different events and kids were still standing. And so I think it's the same thing with the tree canopy, right? If we diversify the tree canopy, then we are less at risk for events that are present and will become more present because of climate change, um, and our tree canopy will be better poised to withstand those events.CAGLE: Is that what you would consider an example of resilience?
HILBRECHT: Yeah, totally. Yeah. And I think that that--and how I applied this in my
00:23:00, in my class as well was, um, thinking about diversity, not just within ecology, but also within, um, social communities. And it's the same thing, right? Like if we just have one type of person making decisions or whose voices are elevated, then we are not going to be resilient. So being able to diversify the voices and ideas within our human communities is also climate resilience.CAGLE: I think that metaphor holds up.
HILBRECHT: Yeah--(both laugh).
CAGLE: Yeah.
HILBRECHT: Yeah.
CAGLE: Okay, so going back to, actually I want to go back further because I
realized I missed something I wanted to ask about with kind of earlier life. You talked about how your mom being a stay-at-home mom really gave you and your siblings a leg up. And I get that. I had a stay-at-home parent also. Were your parents also part of this development of these kind of strong, 00:24:00moral, social justice orientation that you were getting at the school environment as well?HILBRECHT: Yeah, one-hundred percent. My mom is a classic social justice
warrior. Um--CAGLE: --yes--
HILBRECHT: --you know, um, she actually teaches social justice at a Catholic
school now. Um, and yeah, I mean, we are always taught to accept others, love others, uh, care for them, care for the planet, um, turn off the lights, you know, don't run the water too long. Um, I think I've become a lot more radical, um, and sometimes that actually leads to tensions between me and my parents. But, um, that--but, our moral leanings are very much aligned because they taught me them.CAGLE: Yeah. Do you know where that came from for them?
HILBRECHT: I think their parents as well. Um, you know, particularly my mom
00:25:00is a lot more outspoken than my dad, though my dad is a lot more radical than my mom. My dad, you know, he hung out with a bunch of gays in college. Like he's just kind of like, I don't know, um, down for whatever. Um, my mom also, but he went to a public school and my mom also went--my mom went to Catholic school like us. Her family also very religious, uh, you know, love others--and I think that that just goes back and back. You know, there's this like classic story of my great-grandmother, my mom's granny in the Great Depression, raising, um, seven kids on her own because her, well, I guess he was working at the time, but her husband was looking for work and then he later died. So, she ended up being a single mom of seven. But, um, you know, they were poor as dirt and, uh, some guy came up to them and asked for a sandwich and she made him an egg salad sandwich on their porch 00:26:00, you know, so that kind of like, um, ethic has always been in our family.CAGLE: I think of that also as a very Southern Appalachian ethic.
HILBRECHT: Yeah, totally. Yeah, and we're not Appalachian--
CAGLE: --no--
HILBRECHT: --but, uh, but yeah, it is--
CAGLE: --yeah--
HILBRECHT: --it totally is. Yeah.
CAGLE: Yeah. Thats--I say Appalachian is distinct from Southern, I think--
HILBRECHT: --yeah, totally, totally, totally--
CAGLE: --people conflate them sometimes, but yeah, Kentucky is Southern, but not
all Appalachian--HILBRECHT: --yeah, yeah--
CAGLE: --so yeah. That is--I think that's so valuable to be able to trace that
lineage, and then I was thinking too about the connection to the work that you did for your Gaines--HILBRECHT: --mm-hmm [affirmative]--
CAGLE: --um, Honors, uh, thesis, right? Which was looking at social movements as
well, if I'm correct.HILBRECHT: --Um, kind--so the, the program itself, yes, the program itself was
thinking about, um, the--was thinking about the South 00:27:00and social movements in the South. My thesis itself was actually focused on the hallucinogenic plant, ayahuasca--CAGLE: --oh, okay--
HILBRECHT: --um, and thinking about the colonial, the colonial histories of
ayahuasca and--CAGLE: --interesting--
HILBRECHT: --um, the kind of tensions in Western and, um, indigenous thought
through the commodification of this plant.CAGLE: Will you talk a little bit about the Gaines program and then how you came
to that project?HILBRECHT: Yeah. Uh, so that project actually came from, um, Rob Paratley's
economic botany course, which was really, um, informative for me in opening my--that was the first time I'd ever spent time with indigenous ways of knowing, which have been, um, central to how I think about the world. I'm very inspired by indigenous thought. Um, and, so then I just want--I was really interested in, in continuing to think about, um, uh, 00:28:00the botanical, um--like how you can see a plant in many different ways, right? Um, there's, you know, so many, so many different ways of viewing the same material, which I think is really fascinating. Um, so I just chose ayahuasca because that’s--it's a plant that's really used, or really, um, has a lot of hype in like new age, um, like spirituality and, um, is also like a very, very sacred plant in the Amazon. Um, so I wanted to focus on that and then I just kind of, um, ran with that and the political ecology course was, um--also informed 00:29:00how I think about that with bringing in kind of thinking about how colonialism and late stage capitalism has influenced. It's the way that we talk about ayahuasca, the way that it's used, the way that these retreat centers have been built up to, um, allow people to go--uh, from the West to go and, um, engage with this plant, and, um, yeah. So, I don't think that the thesis itself really related to what we were talking about in class, um, because the way that the Gaines Center works, or the Gaines program works is you take classes in your junior year and then you solely work on your thesis your senior year, and that year was also the pandemic when we were doing class from home so I wasn't super engaged with the Gaines Center at all that year really. We met on Zoom and kind of just talked about progress with our theses, not necessarily the content. And that's where the idea really 00:30:00like developed for me. Um, but the junior year, I mean it's great. I loved being in a space that was dedicated to the humanities. I'm a very interdisciplinary learner and thinker, and, um, so that was a space where there were folks from my major, um, social work, dance, um, biology--CAGLE: --wow--
HILBRECHT: --you know, um, philosophy, or yeah, philosophy, psychology. So it
was a really unique space, and we just got to read stuff and talk about it and focused a lot on issues of race in the South, and we had a unit on Appalachia and, um, Appalachian stereotypes, which was very useful to me. We had a linguistics session, which was really cool. I mean, like, when am I going to be able to take a class on linguistics--CAGLE: --that would have been with Jennifer--
HILBRECHT: --um--
CAGLE: --Cramer?
HILBRECHT: --yes--
CAGLE: --maybe?--
HILBRECHT: --yes, it was.
CAGLE: (Laughs)--yeah,
00:31:00she’s fantastic.HILBRECHT: Yeah, totally. So, it was great. I mean, it just was, uh, it was
really special. It just felt fun, and, and, and, um yeah--the classes, it was like four weeks per unit. So you didn't get a whole lot of time to dive deep, but I got a little, little sprinkles of everything. That was really neat.CAGLE: Probably a good set up for grad school, too.
HILBRECHT: Yeah, totally--
CAGLE: --yeah--
HILBRECHT: --especially with like the thesis I'm learning--which I'm not
necessarily putting into practice right now, but procrastination on your thesis is a bad thing, um--CAGLE: --mm-hmm [affirmative]--(both laugh)--
HILBRECHT: --but here I am, still procrastinating--
CAGLE: --uh-huh [affirmative]--
HILBRECHT: --but yeah.
CAGLE: Oh, I think we all--
HILBRECHT: --yeah--
CAGLE: --do that at some point, so--
HILBRECHT: --yeah, totally.
CAGLE: Yeah, it’ll--you’ll kick into gear at some point.
HILBRECHT: Yeah, yeah--
CAGLE: --yeah. So--(clears throat)--you had dropped the geography major as an
undergrad, but knew that you were interested. At what point did you decide to go back to do the master's in geography, and why?HILBRECHT: Yeah, um, again, that political ecology course, which has just been
super, um, 00:32:00super useful to me--CAGLE: --and, who taught that?
HILBRECHT: Betsy Beymer-Farris.
CAGLE: Yeah.
HILBRECHT: Um, yeah, I mean, Betsy is great and she is an awesome recruiter for
graduate school, um, especially in the UK geography department. So, I took that class with her in the fall of my senior year. Again, it was online, and then she, um, she and I kept talking and she was like, well, you could take my feminist geography--or feminist science class, which was a graduate seminar, um, in the spring as an independent study if you wanted to. So, I did that and, you know, even more, um--I got even more acquainted with feminist science and there was a lot of political ecology readings in there as well, and, um, I met a lot of the geography grads, some of whom I'm still in, um, class with now because they were PhD candidates. And, I really loved the space 00:33:00. I loved what they were talking about. I felt like it was the perfect marriage between, um, the environmental, environmental issues I was interested in and the social issues I was interested in. And, it really felt like the sky's the limit. I mean, I think geography is a really cool space. Right--you know, with my thesis, I'm hoping to integrate art, my, um, advisor is an artist, and you can just do whatever you want in, in geography. I mean, you can do whatever you want in anything, but I think geography is well, um, well poised to take on interdisciplinary or anti-disciplinary ways of thinking. Um, so anyway, Betsy and I got to talking and she was like, you should apply for a graduate program. And so, I took a year to work for the Urban Forest Initiative and then applied that fall and got in--CAGLE: --yay--
HILBRECHT: --which was great.
CAGLE: So, what are you doing for your thesis
00:34:00 ?HILBRECHT: I'm going back to the tree stuff and thinking about that, um, moment
where you are measuring the tree and your body is pressed up against the tree and, um, thinking about how you have that encounter, but that encounter is lost in the data that you collect. (Clears throat)--so, I'm hoping to work with geographers, artists, and ecologists or kind of tree people in Lexington to think about what is--(clears throat)--what escapes capture or what is discarded or what is lost, um, within that encounter with the tree, within the process of data collection. And further, how that same process, um, of discardment or loss, um, or opportunity occurs in the data interpretation process and then in the visualization process. So, how do you, 00:35:00you know, because my experience, we took something that was very much three or four dimensional with this tree encounter and then flattened it on a map or on a graph, um, into something that's very two dimensional that only, where certain types of data were privileged just by way of, um, status quo, I think. And so, um, I'm hoping to just do some collaborative project that makes some cool art or other visualizations, um, that opens up the methods that are used in tree assessment in Lexington. What kinds of processes could be useful for people and products could be useful for people because I think those do two different things or many different things.CAGLE: Yeah, and with this project in particular, like with that, the, the data
collection, as you said, it's thousands of trees. You didn't inventory them all yourself, right? There were 00:36:00--you did a lot of them--HILBRECHT: --yeah--
CAGLE: --yeah--
HILBRECHT: --yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah--
CAGLE: --but there were other people involved--
HILBRECHT: --there were other people involved, totally--
CAGLE: --and so that makes me think about how citizen science or what's known as
citizen science, which is not a term that I love, but it's a meaningful term to a lot of people, um, is a space where that happens. And, it's this interesting--I had not thought about it this way before, but it's this interesting tension where people talk about citizen science as valuable in many ways precisely because of that moment of encounter, right? That the product is not necessarily the point, but then that gets lost in the--HILBRECHT: --yeah--
CAGLE: --you know, it's treated as, as, uh, you know, a happy by-product a lot
of times that people have like a new embodied encounter with the ocean or the tree or whatever.HILBRECHT: Yeah.
CAGLE: Yeah, but that's not--that doesn't show up in the reports. That doesn't
00:37:00show up in the write-ups. That doesn’t--HILBRECHT: --yeah--
CAGLE: --yeah--
HILBRECHT: --yeah, exactly.
CAGLE: Yeah. Oh, that's so interesting. Yes. So, are you going to stick around
for a PhD? Are you going to--HILBRECHT: --I don't know. I have a lot of issues with academia--(both laugh).
Um, as pretty much everyone who's in academia, um, also feels. Um, I don't know, I'm fine. I'm feeling very grounded in the work I'm doing at this summer camp. Um, I find it very healing, um, to be so grounded. And, that's something I strive for in my life to do things that are like quite literally close to the ground, um, and like the real material--materiality of, um, the space around me or the ecology around me, um, the people around me. And, I don't think that academia always lends itself to that. Um, 00:38:00it can end up, you know--I find myself extremely frustrated all year. Um, um, and even in a space like geography where there's a lot of radical work being done, I don't--I think that the structure of academia makes it very difficult for that work to be put in practice. Um, even as, even as, in a simple way as like accessibility of what we're writing. Um, I took Dr. Felima's decolonial ecology class this past spring and her final project was to make something that was publicly accessible for people using an ArcGIS story map. Um, um, uh, what's the word? 00:39:00Format. And I--we were able to use a lot of our, um, thesis proposals for that. And, I actually found myself having to translate what I had written for my thesis proposal into publicly accessible language, which was ridiculous because I should have just been writing in a publicly accessible way the whole time. But, you just find yourself like getting--or at least at least I find myself getting caught up in like some weirdness, like some weird, um, elite space that is not, um, it's not helpful for me or healthy for me. So, I don't know. I think--but at the same time, academia is really cool because it's like one of the only spaces where you can make, you know, enough money sometimes to, um, do work that interests you. And it's, it really is a--can be a collaborative space and you can do stuff like what you're doing right now 00:40:00with this oral history project. Um, but I don't know, it's really hard. I think I'm very lost for how to make money--(both laugh)--CAGLE: --yeah. That is a hard question--
HILBRECHT: --yeah--
CAGLE: --and what you just described, like the ideal version of--or an ideal
version of academia, right, that leans into its potential strengths, sounds a lot like some of the work that you've been doing with other geography grad students around like DOPE, and, so will you talk about that? Like DOPE. And then, I was seeing the Community of Practice--HILBRECHT: --yeah--
CAGLE: --methodologies, method, methodologies lab stuff and yeah.
HILBRECHT: Yeah, totally, um--
CAGLE: --well, what is DOPE?--
HILBRECHT: --yeah--
CAGLE: --let’s start there--(laughs).
HILBRECHT: DOPE stands for the Dimensions of Political Ecology and it is a
collective of folks all across the world who are doing something related to political, political ecology. 00:41:00It has taken the form of a conference for, this will be its fourteenth year as a conference, and is that right? Um, no, thirteenth year as a conference, um, fourteenth year as a thing. Um, because we took--we didn't do a conference last year. Um, and, it has many different forms. Um, it's pretty decentralized, even though it's for logistical purposes housed within the department of geography at UK. Um, but it really just brings people into a space, um, really radical thinkers, um, who are doing work on the intersection of the environment and society, um, very community, uh, and community driven collaborative work. So, um, we've done--and this is my first year as a lead organizer. So, um, 00:42:00I'm still very new at, you know, leading this thing, but Chris Keeve, who has been the leader of DOPE for, um, the past three years really did a lot--CAGLE: --check out Chris’s interview in this collection--(laughs)--
HILBRECHT: --yeah, yeah. Chris is fantastic. Um, and, they've done a lot of work
around like seed keeping and, um, seed communities. So we did a DOPE seeds project in, um, 2022 for our virtual conference. Um, so folks like sent seeds to each other, um, all across the world. It's really cool, and they had--the seeds had stories that were attached to them, um, [?? WORD UNCLEAR] to DOPE, so that's DOPE seeds. There's DOPE reads. So, there's a reading group, um, that meets and reads books and talks about them like a book club. Um, and then there's the methods, methodologies, workshop, um, lab 00:43:00. And, I hadn't been super involved with it this past year, but I know it's looking to pick up, but that was a really cool space. I went to a couple of meetings and again, just folks in, in academia, in the, um, you know, working fields, um, who just want to be able to bounce ideas off each other and with their methods, what works, what doesn't work. How do you find methods that meet your, um, like moral ethics? Um, cause sometimes that can be--it can be really hard to--and that's something I struggle with too. It's like, well, you have an idea and you have these moral ethics, but you also need to come up with a product. Like we're so product oriented. Um, and so it's like, how do you hold on to those ethics as you're finding methods and creating products? Um, so that's been really amazing. And 00:44:00then, this year we're bringing the conference back in part because our annual geography conferences in Hawaii, which is really messed up for numerous reasons. So we were motivated to bring DOPE back in person at UK in February, um, because I mean, it's awesome, and also because we, it would be great if folks would have another conference to go to. Um, so we're excited about that. We're going to--we're partnering with, um, other groups like, um, CAPE, which I actually, unfortunately don't know what it stands for, which is embarrassing.CAGLE: I don’t know either.
HILBRECHT: Um, but they're a political ecology group and the West Coast, KOI,
the Kentucky, Ohio, Indiana, political ecology group and, um, KSAC, the Kentucky Student Environmental Coalition, and KSAC is actually going to do a training, I believe that's kind of the idea. So, um, 00:45:00you know, DOPE is really activist and scholar oriented. So, um, we're hoping to engage more, um, heavily with the activist work.CAGLE: Oh, we should get ENS in that group--
HILBRECHT: --yeah. One-hundred percent--
CAGLE: --(Laughs)--
HILBRECHT: --yeah.
CAGLE: Uh, for the record, I'm the director of the environmental and
sustainability studies program--HILBRECHT: --congratulations--
CAGLE: --as of July first this year--
HILBRECHT: --that's amazing.
CAGLE: Um, I'm glad--that's a good sort of segue that mention of DOPE being
activist and scholar, because we've been talking a lot about your experiences in academia and like through undergrad and grad school. But well, I first we first met, I'm pretty sure at a sustainability showcase in 2019. It was pre pandemic. So I think it's 2019. Were you already working for UFI [1] then?HILBRECHT: Um, no. Let me think. Was I? No--
CAGLE: --not yet--
HILBRECHT: --no I started working for UFI in 2020.
CAGLE: Okay
00:46:00. But, I think, um, maybe you were at the sustainability showcase--HILBRECHT: --yeah, it's very likely because--
CAGLE: --I have a--
HILBRECHT: --I was involved in the offices, office of sustainability.
CAGLE: Yeah. So, I'm pretty sure that's where I first met you. But, I don't
think I knew you were an undergraduate student. And I always had this impression of you as like, uh, rooted in community and rooted in activism. And that's, I think, speaks to how much you do in the community and activism. So I kind of want to like turn the spotlight there--HILBRECHT: --yeah, totally. Like I credit all of that to, um, Mary Arthur--
CAGLE: --yeah--
HILBRECHT: --Dr. Mary Arthur for plugging me into the community.
CAGLE: How did you meet Mary?
HILBRECHT: Um, so she was an NRE--back to academia--(laughs)--
CAGLE: --yes--
HILBRECHT: --she was an, um, NRES [2] faculty member. Um,
she ran the steering committee. She was my forest ecology professor. She taught us the intro, um, class to 00:47:00NRES, which was the first time I met her. And she was just this like shining star, like everyone was simultaneously, um, in awe of her and, um, like, just like star struck, um--CAGLE: --mm-hmm [affirmative]. She has that effect on people--
HILBRECHT: --totally. So I was like--
CAGLE: --we also have an interview with her--
HILBRECHT: --oh, great--
CAGLE: --so--
HILBRECHT: --yeah, check her out for sure. I mean, yeah, she's just like the
most articulate person I've ever met in my life. Um, so I immediately was like, I have to know Mary Arthur. Um, and I remember, well, I asked her to be my advisor because I--we were like on a van from the Red River Gorge. I was like, you know, I'm just going to sit for like a, um, field trip, because we did so many field trips in forest ecology. And I was like, I'm just going to sit in the passenger seat with Mary Arthur and, um, force her to talk to me. And I was like, “will you be my advisor?” And she was like, “yes.” I was like, okay, great--CAGLE: --uh-huh [affirmative]--(laughs)--
HILBRECHT: --this is fantastic. So anyway, I would just like go to her office
00:48:00a lot. And we--she's just such an open person. And so, I would just immediately like spill my guts to her. And I, you know, told her about how I really wanted to get involved with the community. And I, um, you know, this was the kind of work that I wanted to do, but I didn't know how to plug in. So she, um, asked if I wanted to be involved with the Urban Forest Initiative Working Group. And then, we also went to a meeting together with Bluegrass Green Source after they had a climate summit, um, and--CAGLE: --the sustainability summit, that first one?--
HILBRECHT: --yes--
CAGLE: --in--that was in 20--
HILBRECHT: --that was in 2020, I think--
CAGLE: --I believe it was just before the pandemic--
HILBRECHT: --yeah, just, right--
CAGLE: --it was in like February--
HILBRECHT: --February, yeah, I didn't go to it, but there was like an after meetup--
CAGLE: --yes--
HILBRECHT: --for a climate justice group--
CAGLE: --yes--
HILBRECHT: --and so, she took me to that. And that was my first time in like a
space that wasn't UK. And, um, I didn't do anything with that. And I think that group kind of dissipated a 00:49:00little bit with the pandemic. But from then on, um, I felt, you know, like I wanted to get more involved in the community. And so then, Mary also was like, you should, um, apply to be an intern with UFI--CAGLE: --the Urban Forest Initiative--
HILBRECHT: --so yeah, the Urban Forest Initiative. And so I did. And I was their
summer intern, which meant that I also went to the Urban Forest Initiative Working Groups and the Tree Week Planning Team meetings. So then, I really got involved with the community, um, through UFI and all of the amazing people that it brings together. So that's really, that's really it. And so then, you know, Mary continued to, um, invite me to stuff. We continued to work together. Even after--we work together now, even after I'm no longer her employee, um--CAGLE: --and she's technically retired--
HILBRECHT: --exactly--
CAGLE: --yeah--
HILBRECHT: --so, um, it's been a lot of fun to just kind
00:50:00of be, um, like kind of peers, I would say, in this work. So we, um, with Christine Smith and you and Craig Crowder, um, and Lindsey Funke started the, um, Climate Conversations Group during Tree Week of 2021.CAGLE: Yeah, yeah because it's when my sister was here--
HILBRECHT: --yeah--
CAGLE: --so, or wait, no, that was 2020 if my sister was here. I think. Or--
HILBRECHT: --no, no, no--
CAGLE: --maybe she was just visiting--
HILBRECHT: --it was 2021--
CAGLE: --it was 2021, she was--
HILBRECHT: --yeah--
CAGLE: --because my sister was here early in the pandemic for a long period--
HILBRECHT: --yeah--
CAGLE: --but then yeah, no, she was just back visiting, I think--
HILBRECHT: --yeah, I just have to think about like, were we wearing masks
outside or not? --(Laughs).CAGLE: Yes, that’s--yeah, so post-vaccine--
HILBRECHT: --yeah, yeah--
CAGLE: --pre more opening up--
HILBRECHT: --yeah--
CAGLE: --yeah. Um,
00:51:00for better or for worse--HILBRECHT: --yeah--
CAGLE: --uh, again, for the record, there's still an ongoing pandemic--
HILBRECHT: --yeah--
CAGLE: --as we speak--(laughs)--
HILBRECHT: --even though some people don't think so--
CAGLE: --yeah--
HILBRECHT: --um--
CAGLE: --so that, um, will you talk about that Tree Week and, sort of, Tree Week
in general. Um, my recollection is that when I--I talked to Mary about that Tree Week, this was before she retired and she was still very active in leading UFI specifically, was that she, she told me in casual conversation at some point that she really wanted to center climate in everything that she did for the rest of, as long as she's doing projects. And that it seemed silly to not be doing that with Tree Week. Um, can you talk a little bit about what Tree Week is and then sort of how that happened from your perspective in terms of climate 00:52:00becoming more a part of it?--HILBRECHT: --yeah--
CAGLE: --that year--
HILBRECHT: --totally. Yeah. So Tree Week is a week long, you know, this is its
thing. It's a week long celebration of trees in Lexington. It's an annual event. I think this will be our like sixth Tree Week, um, if I'm not mistaken, which I might be. And it brings together--you know, just one of those things in Lexington that you get because it's Lexington and it's so community, um, I don't even know, like heavy, just bringing together folks to do things outside or with trees. So there's tons of different events like yoga in the park. There's, um, oops, sorry. There's yoga in the park. There's hiking, tree walks. Um, FCPS, Fayette County Public Schools, is super involved in Tree Week because of Tresine Logsdon, who's the sustainability 00:53:00coordinator for FCPS. And she, um, she just does so much with the school system and has been very involved in Tree Week as a planning team member, um--CAGLE: --I love the passport.
HILBRECHT: Yeah, yeah. She's, there's just such--she comes up with the cool
stuff. Um, so anyway, basically just dedicated time to say like, hey guys, we have trees--(both laugh)--and we should get outside and look at them and spend some time with them. Um, and I think--I don't know, Mary probably said this in her interview, like why Tree Week started happening, but my understanding of it was to try to get more awareness of our tree canopy because we want to expand it. The city wants to expand it and you need--most of our trees are on private land. So you need community members to be able to work on the tree canopy in, um, their homes. Unfortunately, that's complicated by a lot of people having landlords. Um, but, you know 00:54:00, um, so yeah, so that I guess in the summer of 2021, which was my second year being on the Tree Week planning team, um, or yeah, Christine Smith, um, had a conversation with Mary who then told me about this conversation where she was like, why are we not talking about climate and Tree Week? You know, Tree Week is really like a happy time, but you know, we should be talking about climate change because there's so much happening and trees are such a, you know, important, um, mitigator of climate change. It was just ridiculous if we're not talking about it in a centralized kind of way. So we were like, okay, let's do that. And Christine, who's just full of amazing ideas, was thinking about, um, some signs that were up in Berlin to commemorate the Holocaust and just kind of like very stark 00:55:00messaging around something that is uncomfortable for people, but at the same time needs to be recognized. So she was like, well, if we do like a yard sign campaign or like some sort of like big sign campaign. And, um, then we all got together on Mary's porch and started brainstorming. I remember like you had a, a piece of paper and we're like kind of drawing out like what this could look like. And then I, um, took that home and made some signs on Canva and like, well, we actually really like hanging out and talking. So let's have a discussion group too. And, um, yeah, so then we had our first meetup at, um, Castlewood Park in Lexington during that last Saturday of Tree Week. And we had signs out. We also did a sign making event. We had a virtual one where you could just do it at home. I don't know how many people engaged with that, but, um, you know, that's fine. 00:56:00And then we had an in-person one with Sisohpromatem, Sisohpromatem Art Foundation, um, at West Sixth. So Sonja Brooks, who is the founder and director of that foundation, um, brought some paint and some old political yard signs that she had painted. And we got to see some kids make, uh, these really awesome yard signs. It was great. Yeah, so we found that to be really fruitful and exciting. Again, thinking back to process, just even the--so if we stopped Climate Conversations today, I think it would still be worth it because we were able to have, um, just meetings together and then, you know, the conversations that we've been able to have with strangers through our events at the Julietta Market have just been incredible--CAGLE: --yeah--
HILBRECHT: --so I think that, I mean, that group is very, very fun and
interesting to me. And it works at exactly what I am interested in doing, which is, 00:57:00um, I mean, it's, you know, we're going to take this off the website, but it's profoundly anti-capitalist--CAGLE: --(laughs)--uh-huh [affirmative]--
HILBRECHT: --like, it's, it just is. I mean, we have yard signs that are
obviously, like, manufactured through, um, capitalism, but--CAGLE: --can you describe the yard signs?
HILBRECHT: Yeah, so they're um, they’re--so the front has, like, two panels and
on one side it says, what if, and then something about climate resilience, like, what if we drove less? Or what if every street had trees? Or what if our yards were pollinator habitats? And on the other side, there's a picture of Lexington or Kentucky and it says, imagine a climate resilient Lexington. We also have them for other communities in, um, in the state. And then there's also one just, like, just for Kentucky. And on the back, there's, like, a fun fact. So, um, you know, 00:58:00it's like one third of the world's emissions are due to cars or something like that. My favorite is the, what if we could name five, um, five trees, I think, or five plants. And on the back, it's a quote from Robin Wall Kimmerer that says, um, the average American can name over one-hundred corporate logos, but only ten plants. So, kind of these evocative, colorful, stark yard signs that we have.CAGLE: They are very colorful.
HILBRECHT: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, I mean, I think just the, we're just
having conversations with people. And it's actually, there's, you know, there's a lot of tension around how we, like, around justifying what we're doing, I suppose, um--CAGLE: --what are we doing?--
HILBRECHT: --right--
CAGLE: --so this is Climate Conversations--
HILBRECHT: --it’s Climate Conversations--
CAGLE: --so, we’re moving from that Castlewood event, which was distributing the
signs and just getting people 00:59:00together to talk. And then it’s sort of morphed--HILBRECHT: --totally, yeah, it morphed through--
CAGLE: --but it took time.
HILBRECHT: It did. Yeah, yeah. So, I can kind of tell that story. Like--
CAGLE: --yeah--
HILBRECH: --uh, so, we had that event at Castlewood Park. People loved it. It
was great. So, we're like, let's keep doing this. Let's put together, like, a group of people who want to do this. Um, so, like, we tried to have some meetups, and we did. They were virtual because it was a lot easier for people to meet via Zoom and still, you know, very much high of the pandemic, um, rather than outside, people felt safer on Zoom than outside. But the Zoom meetings, I think, oftentimes lend themselves to having a moderator. And that moderator was me. And I was taking notes, and I had an agenda, and I sent out emails. And then it was just like, what are we doing? This is not the vision. Um, you just kind of--it just kind of defaults to that. I think, you know, and Mary and I have talked about this a lot. This organization is something 01:00:00, or even if you would call it an organization, right, just this group, is not and should not be transactional. But oftentimes, people want transactional types of organizations. Or maybe they don't, but they think they do. Or maybe we think they do, so that's what we give them. Um, but it's like, tell me what to do, and I'll go do it. Or I won't, you know, like, I want you to tell me what to do. I want you to send this email. I want you to convene these people. I want, you know, I'll just come, and then maybe I'll attend like a city council meeting. So it became a lot around like, there's city council meetings coming up around the, um, comprehensive plan in Lexington, which is a five-year document that, um, kind of guides us through long-range planning. So we were part of that, too. We hosted through Civic Lex these on-the-tables that were amazing. Just, again, the process of convening and talking about issues that Lexington is facing 01:01:00and the kinds of things that we would want to see in the comprehensive plan and the people who came to those and just the chatting that we got to engage with. Um, but then again, it became emails and agendas and meeting minutes. And, um, who, you know, who's in charge of this? Well, you should send this out, you know, you know, pass this information along. And it's just like, well, like, we should, you just, you can just send it, you know, like, you can just share this with people. We have a network going. Um, so make those relations, you know, in a decentralized kind of way rather than, um, where there's like a central, like, focal point. And it became a lot of labor on me. And so I got burnt out, too. So Mary and I were just like, this is not working. Let's reassess. So I took time off in the fall during my, 01:02:00um, first year of graduate school, um--CAGLE: --so Fall 2022?--
HILBRECHT: --Fall 2022. I was also working on Hannah LeGris political campaign
as her volunteer manager. So I was just like, totally overbooked--CAGLE: --yeah--
HILBRECHT: --and then after the campaign was over, um, Hannah won, yay--
CAGLE: --yay--
HILBRECHT: --um--
CAGLE: --she's my council member--
HILBRECHT: --yeah, she's great. Um, I emailed Mary and we're like, let's get--or
maybe she emailed me. I don't know. We reconnected and we were like, let's retry this thing. And I was a lot more, um, knowledgeable about, um, a lot of stuff because I learned a lot in my first semester of my graduate, my graduate year, like about organizing. I joined my union. So I became a lot more equipped to think about how to have organizing conversations and like how, how to organize and how to do work that 01:03:00you want to do and that is meeting the goals that you have. So actually, the way I think about climate conversations very much is--leans on my training from the union, UCW, United Campus Workers, um--CAGLE: --woot--
HILBRECHT: --yeah. Um, so I think now it's like, well, let's just have
conversations with people. So we've developed a card game. Alex Smith, um, who I think works for Bluegrass Green Source or did work for--CAGLE: --he does--
HILBRECHT: --he does currently. Okay--
CAGLE: --at the very least he was there when I went to get my rain barrels--
HILBRECHT: --okay, cool--
CAGLE: --a few weeks ago, and we chatted, so--
HILBRECHT: --cool. So, um, he drew from this card game. Are We Really Strangers?
Um, and so we use this kind of card game format. And it's also--the idea is also Christian Smith's because she went to a retreat where they had people ask questions in like a tiered kind of way around issues of race 01:04:00. And then Alex was like, let's make this a card game, which also does the same thing. So we have these like tiered questions around issues of climate and climate justice. And we've been asking folks these questions at like a kind of kiss me, kiss me booth--CAGLE: --(laughs)--
HILBRECHT: --or kissing booth at the--
CAGLE: --that is what it is--
HILBRECHT: --yeah, at the Julietta Market at Grey Line Station at a place called
or an event called First Sundays, which convenes organizations from all across Lexington the first Sunday of every month for three hours. And it's been amazing. I mean, you just--random people come by and we have deep conversations around climate change. And they are also like, I think it's just crazy. It's like, you know, talk about random sampling. Every person that we've talked to, at least that I've talked to, has been concerned about climate change and just random people. Um, so--CAGLE: --including people who didn't necessarily
01:05:00walk over, but we harangued into--(laughs)--HILBRECHT: --right, exactly--
CAGLE: --coming over and talking to us--
HILBRECHT: --yeah--
CAGLE: --nicely harangued--
HILBRECHT: --totally--
CAGLE: --yeah, yeah--
HILBRECHT: --yeah, we're like, it takes seven minutes and doesn't but that's okay.
CAGLE: Yes.
HILBRECHT: Yeah, it's been really amazing. So I think just--it's just like, it's
not transactional. It's, um, reciprocal, and--CAGLE: --right, because in these conversations, so somebody comes over, and
there's a table--HILBRECHT: --yeah--
CAGLE: --um, but we're not behind the table. We're in front of the table, and we
have some chairs, we can actually sit in a pair. And then what happens? So--HILBRECHT: --yeah, so then you you there's like stacks of there's four stacks of
cards, um, different levels. Um, so you're like, hey, like, pick some cards, and we'll talk about them together. So basically, I would, you know, they would pick one card from each pile. So one in for each level. And then, um, you ask the questions of each other. And so one person asks and the other talks and then they listen and, 01:06:00uh, they kind of flip roles. So practice and listening and practice and empathy building, practice in, um, connecting with your past and thoughts. And who knows when last time people talked about this? Um--CAGLE: --if ever--
HILBRECHT: --yeah, right. So you just--I think the challenging part of it is
knowing, knowing when to be silent and when to like engage. Um, because I think that there is still a little bit of, um, there's still a little bit of that, like, I would--like hierarchical relationships in some ways, right? Because we're the ones asking to have a conversation. We're the ones who developed the questions and came up with the card game. And we're here at the booth and they're not. Um, so as much as we try to equalize, I still think it's a little bit like, uh, the power is still 01:07:00with the climate conversations organizers. Um, but the best part is when it doesn't feel that way. And it feels more like no, there is no power on one person. But I think that's how it is in all conversations, right? Like, I'm someone--and I think this might be just me too. Like I'm someone who generally will fill up a conversation or, um, feel like I need to take the reins on a conversation. So it's challenging for me to not. And, um, so it's been a useful practice for me, not just within climate conversations, but within my own relationships with people.CAGLE: Yeah, it reminds me of a critique that I've heard of icebreakers, which I
hate an icebreaker in general. Um, but one of my, one of the critiques that has landed with me is particularly in like a classroom setting is if you're the teacher, you pick the icebreaker, which means you get to think about your 01:08:00answer as long as you want. But then you're challenging other people with coming up with some, you know, if it's like a, what would your superhero name be or something that's like, well, you got to think about this for two weeks and I get two minutes, like--HILBRECHT: --yeah, yeah, totally. Totally--
CAGLE: --right, like we have thought about these questions and we have, yeah.
And I think with climate, there's often a sense from people, and this has come up in those conversations some for me is people think that they should know more than they do, particularly around the science., right?HILBRECHT: Totally.
CAGLE: That they, they don't--that they need to be warranted to have a
conversation by somehow having some, there's some magic level of scientific knowledge that like is your green light to talk about or care about climate.HILBRECHT: Yeah, one-hundred percent. And I think, I mean, that's something
that's come up in these conversations as well. I did one with my roommate who knows absolutely nothing about science and is very, you know, owns that. Um, and she's like--she's always like, 01:09:00you know, I know that I need to do these things. Like, I know I need to turn off the lights. I know I need to use less water. I have no idea why. And that's the same with her parents because her parents, she and her parents will talk about it a little bit like you have to recycle and they're like, yes, I don't know why though, you know? And so I, I don't know what to do about that. Um, we can simplify the way that we talk about it, going back to accessibility. Um, and also sometimes it doesn't really matter. I don't really know if everyone needs to know if they don't want to know. It's, I think enough to, I think this is where it's important, like climate conversations builds empathy. And so, if you can have empathy for your neighbor and empathy for the ecological world around you, then I don't know, I think that can also lead to action and, um, behavior change even more than like knowing the facts maybe.CAGLE: Yeah. Can you talk a bit about
01:10:00something you said a minute ago about this idea of, you know, people wanting transactional relationships with organizations and how that is very much not the point--HILBRECHT: --yeah--
CAGLE: --with these climate conversations?
HILBRECHT: Mm-hmm [affirmative], and again, I don't know if that's like
necessarily true. I have like nothing to back that up that people want transactional organizations.CAGLE: Other than the fact that the--and before we hit on this format of having
the chairs to sit down, that the question is always, “oh, is there--can I have a pamphlet,” right?--HILBRECHT: --yeah--
CAGLE: --there's this sense of like needing to get something out of an interaction.
HILBRECHT: Yeah. Again, the product over the process.
CAGLE: Mm-hmm [affirmative], yeah.
HILBRECHT: Yeah, um, sorry, what was the question again?
CAGLE: Oh right, If you can just talk more about that idea of whether or not
it's true at a larger scale, but the idea that at least in some cases people want a transactional relationship with organizations, but that what we're doing with the climate conversations is 01:11:00very intentionally not that.HILBRECHT: Mm-hmm [affirmative], yeah, um--
CAGLE: --like, how is it that we're pushing back against that?
HILBRECHT: How is it that we're pushing back against that? I mean, I think,
well, within our structure, um, uh, most directly, it's very much based on shared labor, uh, and no one person is in charge. Um, though I think Mary right now is like leading us. Um, I wouldn't say that she is the only, she's not coming up with all the ideas or doing all of the labor. Um, um, you know, we don't just like attend and then leave. It's like you attend--like our convenings, like our meetings where we're kind of organizing, we attend, we make plans and we do those plans and then we convene again. Um, there's no 01:12:00--yeah, and, and I think that's--so we're doing it in that way. Also, we have these yard signs and we're helping to facilitate libraries with those yard signs--CAGLE: --oh yeah, we haven’t talked about it--
HILBRECHT: --yeah--
CAGLE: --in the library yet, yeah--
HILBRECHT: --Yeah so library--we're helping to facilitate libraries with that.
Um, one, it's like we're trying to reduce, uh, waste, obviously, and also, um, which there are critiques of even having yard signs in the first place, but I think that they're fun and useful. So whatever. Um, um, and also, so like, I don't know, the libraries function as, um, a way to bring people together. You, you know, if your neighbor is like, “oh, I like your yard sign.” You're like, “oh, okay, I have a couple in my shed. Do you want to like trade yard signs with me?” Um, you know, if you want to give me ten dollars, you can. If you want them for free, that's fine too, um, because the yard signs cost ten dollars. So 01:13:00the idea is like you're just trading the cost of the sign for your sign, which is fair--CAGLE: --but then you can also trade in the sign for a different sign--
HILBRECHT: --but then you can also trade in the sign for a different sign
because your sign is going to get stale. People are going to stop looking at it. And then within that transaction, you get to have a conversation. So very much intentionally trying to build community through conversation. So trying to find excuses for conversations in a world--(Cagle laughs)--where it's hard to sometimes. Um, so, um, but I brought up the yard signs because, oh, yeah, because we don't really have anything else to give besides conversation. And that's kind of like radical because that's--people it's kind of like, oh, well, bye. You know, it's like kind of, oh, if you want to join the library, you can add your name to this list. We'll get in touch with you. If you want to have meetings with us, you can. If you want to just keep 01:14:00talking, we'll be here in a month. You know, it's very weird to like be like--to not give them something. Um, but I think it's cool because it's just --CAGLE: --yeah, there’s no swag, there’s no newsletter--
HILBRECHT: --no, because like, why would there be and again--
CAGLE: --yeah--
HILBRECHT: --that would form like a centralized organization rather than a decentralized--
CAGLE: --yeah--
HILBRECHT: --group. Um, so, and I think that that is what draws me to this work
is the fact that it is that way, because I think at least in how I've experienced it, a lot of these sustainability organizations are organizations that you either are part of or you're not. And I think that leads to the idea that people are or are not a part of climate work and that climate work is sectioned off from your life. And one of 01:15:00Mary's goals has, as she's articulated in class and in other spaces, is to normalize climate change. It was like one of the first things she said in our intro class in our yes. And I think this does that. It normalizes having a conversation around climate. It normalizes climate being a part of your life rather than a place where you go to then work on something that is not--maybe not fun for you. Maybe it is fun for you. But, you know, we draw from this Venn diagram that came from a How to Save a Planet episode, podcast episode, Is Your Climate Footprint BS? And toward the end of that podcast episode, they're talking about this climate action Venn diagram. And in that Venn diagram, you know, there's like three circles. One is what needs to be done to solve climate change. One is what brings you joy. And one is what are you good at? And that central piece is what you should be doing, um, to address climate change in your life. And it can look like so many different things. And climate change is a product of late stage capitalism. And so if you're doing anything social justice related at all, um, you are working on climate change because you are hoping to mitigate the effects of 01:16:00late stage capitalism and like unravel that. And so Climate Conversations makes that, um, you know, vocalizes that, I think, in a really important way, and, um, um, kind of entangles climate with your life in a way that is intimate rather than, um, I don't know, compartmentalized.CAGLE: My scalp is tingling from that answer--(both laugh)--thank you. That’s
like--I hadn't thought about it that way, but it’s--you're exactly right. You know, about and such a--yeah, this idea of like not sectioning it off and the idea that it's literally a place that you can go and then leave. 01:17:00Right? Climate or climate work. It's like that's not, that's materially untrue.HILBRECHT: Yeah, totally.
CAGLE: Whether or not we want it to be--(laughs).
HILBRECHT: Totally. Exactly.
CAGLE: Yeah. Oh, I love that so much. Do you remember, um, the conversation we
were having about, um, oh what was that one? Oh, I don't remember now. I was going to ask about a particular conversation in one of our sort of early organizing conversations around this. Um, but I can't think of--there was something in particular. So something else then. I think it's not an accident that our last couple of organizing meetings, as you said, it's not that you kind of attend and then leave. It's coming together, being there, present, involved. It's a small group right now. Um, 01:18:00but also not in a sense of--I don't feel any pressure to, you know, perform--HILBRECHT: --mm-hmm [affirmative]--
CAGLE: --engagement in those spaces. You know, it's not like, well, if everyone
doesn't contribute vocally, then, right, like if I'm having a blah day, then that's okay--HILBRECHT: --mm-hmm [affirmative]--
CAGLE: --um, but I don't think it's an accident that those meetings have slowly
shifted to always be outside and always involve food.HILBRECHT: Totally. Yeah, I mean--
CAGLE: --(Laughs)--that seems of a piece--
HILBRECHT: --totally. I mean, that's like the vision. That was the vision like
all along. And that's how it started, right? Like we were just on Mary’s porch--CAGLE: --yeah--
HILBRECHT: --um, we didn't share food at the time, I think because it was
pandemic, though I think every other time I've been on various porch, there's food.CAGLE: Yes.
HILBRECHT: --um, so maybe that was why or I don't know. We just didn't think
about it. Um yeah. And it was actually an interesting, um, like trend or like lineage, I suppose, where it started on a porch and like now ended on a porch or patio 01:19:00or backyard. Right. But in the middle, there was like Zoom meetings and agenda items and emails. Um, yeah, it's like we just hang out and our meetings now are like two and a half hours long sometimes--(both laugh)--but they're great--CAGLE: --yeah--
HILBRECHT: --no one wants to leave--
CAGLE: --yeah--
HILBRECHT: --you know, you brought your dog last time--
CAGLE: --and there’s dogs--
HILBRECHT: --yeah, exactly--
CAGLE: --and kids, and yeah--
HILBRECHT: --yeah, totally. So it's just lovely. You just--and you just talk.
There's no like--Mary has like some loose agenda items, but it's just like, OK, let's talk about this next thing. Not like Cagle, give me an update--CAGLE: --on the, yeah--
HILBRECHT: --okay, and you kind of feel like shit because you didn't do it or like--
CAGLE: --yeah--(laughs)--
HILBRECHT: --you know what I mean? Like not you specifically--
CAGLE: --right, no, sure--sometimes, yeah, yeah--
HILBRECHT: --but it's just like there's it's like pressure of like, oh, man,
like did I do this thing that I was supposed to do? Instead, it's like, oh, no, not quite there yet. Okay, let's talk about it or we can just move on. It's so chill and happy and and fun. And yes, there's always food. Everyone like bring something. Um, Mary will bring cake or like whoever's hosting will have coffee and 01:20:00it's just great.CAGLE: Yeah. Yeah. And I think Mary and I talked, um, at the--I think it was the
June. No, I wasn't there--the May First Sunday about having to move out of that headspace of thinking of these things, whether it's our meetings or organizing meetings or the, you know, something like the first Sunday we're actually setting up and having conversations with people to get out of the headspace of thinking of those as obligations in the same way that we think of, you know, oh, I have a meeting for work or something because we are trying to do something different and do it in a way that is, you know, fills the bucket instead of empties the bucket--HILBRECHT: --yeah, exactly--
CAGLE: --as it were--
HILBRECHT: --exactly.
CAGLE: Even though it’s--it is very tiring to have those conversations--
HILBRECHT: --yeah--
CAGLE: --will you talk about that?
HILBRECHT: Yeah. I mean, it's just like when you're having any deep conversation
with somebody, um--CAGLE: --so not the organizing conversation, but the conversation, the climate conversation--
HILBRECHT: --the climate conversations. Yeah--
CAGLE: --with strangers--
HILBRECHT: --yeah.
01:21:00Yeah. I would. Yeah. The organizing conversations aren't tiring for me, at least it's very--there's people that I'm very comfortable with. So, but yeah, the organizing or the climate conversations at the events. Yeah, they totally can be. It's like, wow, I just had this like, like pretty deep conversation with somebody where I had to like tap into my heart space, um, and be vulnerable or like, again, going back to just how I am working in these conversations. Um, it’s again, I feel like kind of pressure of like managing in some capacity, right? So I'm like bringing someone into the space. So then I feel like I have an, um, like I owe them a good time--(both laugh)--um, um, so that's something I'm like actively trying to work on. So it's actually is more, um, um 01:22:00, equal, but yeah, it's like you're having a conversation with somebody. It's energetically difficult sometimes. And then when you're not having a conversation with somebody, you're thinking about recruiting people to have conversations with and you're like, there kind of on. So like, it's like, it's interesting because you're on at the booth and then you try to turn it off when you're having the conversation with somebody. Um, so that kind of flipping back and forth between like your stage presence and then your like authentic self is, um, also draining, I would say.CAGLE: That's a really good point. Yeah. Um, this is going to maybe seem like a
right turn, but I think it's related, which is I want to ask you about the summer camp--HILBRECHT: --yeah--
CAGLE: --that you're working at--
HILBRECHT: --yeah--
CAGLE: --because I feel like you're probably having to do a lot of that same
kind of like the stage presence--HILBRECHT: --yeah--
CAGLE: --I've worked with kids before and it's--I find that having a big
presence is really helpful in maintaining attention and interest and whatnot. So--HILBRECHT: --yeah
01:23:00 --CAGLE: --will you talk about that work and then if and how it's connected to the climate.
HILBRECHT: Oh, I mean it is--
CAGLE: --yeah--
HILBRECHT: --one-hundred percent. Um, yeah, so I'm working with a, an
organization called the Earth and Spirit Center in Louisville and they do, um, you know, earth driven work and, um, social justice and racial justice work. So but in a very in a spiritual way, which has been very healing for me. So, um, they focus on--they have meditation classes. They have spirituality classes. It started out as a Catholic organization, but now it's interfaith and not Catholic. And they--their message is to love each other and love the earth and love yourself. And there's a summer camp that's a week in week sessions and there's four weeks total and I have this week this past week I had sixty-five kids the week before that I had a hundred and six and the week before that I had a hundred. So groups of like twenty-five to like 01:24:00fifteen or fifteen to twenty-five. Um, and I'm teaching the kids about--I'm the garden educator. And so we have a garden and the kids are absolutely blown away by the food that you can eat and picking--they want to pick the carrots so bad, but the carrots aren't ready. So I'm trying to teach the kids about like waiting for the plants and like nourishing the plants. And we also just do a lot of different games around, you know, ecology, um, and it's been a ton of fun. I--it's--the first week was so draining. I would take a nap after every day, but it's gotten a lot easier. It's become really like heart expanding for me to be with these kids, especially this last week. They partnered with, um, the family scholar house, which serves families 01:25:00with low-income families who are working to get their degrees and also have kids. And I don't know the other organization, but another organization that serves low-income Hispanic youth. And so there are lots of kids who wouldn't have otherwise been able to afford this camp who got to be outside and learn not to, I don't know if they go outside or not, but for some, for some that they might not have seen the outdoors in this way. Um, and, um, there's like an environmental, um, education session. There's a gardening session. There's an art session, story time and meditation section or sessions. And normally there's a music session that we didn't have that this week. Um, yeah. And the kids are like so curious about the earth. I try to, I try to foster a space where they, it's not bad to touch plants. Right. I think a lot of the times kids are taught to, you know 01:26:00, stay on the trail and don't touch anything. Um, but in my session, at least I'm like, yeah, touch this plant, like being gentle and like be nice and don't pick the strawberries when they're not ripe, because that's not fair to everybody. And only take one raspberry because there are only so many raspberries and everyone should be able to have the raspberries. Um, but yeah, get messy, get dirty, like play in the mud, experience nature how you want to experience nature. Because those, that's where you get to love it instead of feeling like you are outside of nature and, um, are going to hurt it or that it will hurt you. Um, so that's kind of, that's kind of my, you know, we do a bunch of different lessons, but that's kind of my main goal is for the kids to be curious and dirty. So--CAGLE: --it also reminds me of Robin Wall Kimmerer's talking about the honorable harvest--
HILBRECHT: --mm-hmm [affirmative] yeah--
CAGLE: --yeah
01:27:00 --HILBRECHT: --yeah, totally. I mean, that's, that's why I teach them that because
I learned from Robin Wall Kimmerer about the honorable harvest where you don't take the first of something that way, you know, you'll only take the last and you ask permission and you say thank you. So--CAGLE: --yeah--
HILBRECHT: --it's been great. Yeah. I'm like, “say thank you to the trees,
guys.” And they're like, “thank you.”CAGLE: (Laughs)--I love it.
HILBRECHT: Yeah, it’s been great.
CAGLE: Who, uh, planted the garden?
HILBRECHT: Um, um, some interns for the, um, Earth and Spirit Center, the, um,
assistant camp director planted some stuff. So I requested some seeds and then they, they planted them--CAGLE: --oh that’s awesome--
HILBRECHT: --So we have like, yeah because I guess I was in Lexington, so I
wasn't able to attend to the garden then. But, um, yeah, we have like squash, corn, herbs, zucchini, uh, which I cut the zucchini up and air fried it with some salt because I had like no time to actually cook it. And the kids love zucchini, which was like, this is great--CAGLE: --yeah--
HILBRECHT: --um, so--
CAGLE: --it’s my favorite vegetable--
HILBRECHT: --yeah, zucchini rocks in every shape and form.
01:28:00But yeah, I mean, it's just been it's been amazing. These kids are fantastic, and I'm really sad that this is my last week.CAGLE: Is this your first time doing the camp?
HILBRECHT: Mm hmm [affirmative]--
CAGLE: --yeah--
HILBRECHT: --yeah it’s my--I kind of like in my interview, um, over emphasized
how comfortable I was with kids. Um, I, you know, I help raise my partner's child who is nine. Um, but I'm definitely not a full time parent in any stretch of the imagination. Um, and, um, that's pretty much my, my extent of like caring for children. But when they asked me in the interview if I was good with kids and had been around a lot of kids, I was like, yeah, totally--(Cagle laughs)--um, so my first day with like the twenty-five kids, I was like, Oh, my gosh, that's a lot. But it's been I mean, it's been great. And also just having empathy for these kids. Like, you know, my partner's kids neurodivergent, right. And a lot of these kids are neurodivergent that I work with, but they would get yelled at by the counselors like stop talking 01:29:00or, you know, sit down or whatever. And so, just kind of being able to figure out like, okay, like this kid is just like dealing with ADHD right now. Um, so what motivates him? Well, maybe he needs to be doing something else. So, like my first week I had this kid who was just like, crazy, like talking all the time, like running around all the time. And I was like, Hey, Owen. I saw him like one day organizing the cards that I had out. He was like putting them in order and like straightening them and I was like, Hmm, okay, Owen, do you want to take notes? And he was like, Yes--CAGLE: --oh--
HILBRECHT: --and so he became our note taker. And I was like, Can you take notes
on like what we're talking about today? And like, who likes you know, this kind of plan? Like what this person is doing? Like what people are saying? And he just became the note taker. And he was like so excited about that. And I was like, Oh, wow. Okay, thank you so much. Like this is super helpful. Or like, another kid gets like angry and, and like frustrated. And I was like, Do you want to be like my helper today 01:30:00? And so just kind of figuring out like, where kids are at and what motivates them, um, has just been super, um, exciting, especially when it works--(laughs)--and that's just awesome. You think about how we don't really set up neurodivergent kids for success in our world when they're really not doing anything wrong. They're just like, not necessarily going to thrive when they're told to sit down and, you know, be still and silent. So yeah.CAGLE: Yeah. That sounds really awesome.
HILBRECHT: Yeah, it's been great.
CAGLE: Um, I've asked all the questions that I want to ask except for one--
HILBRECHT: --okay--
CAGLE: --that I've been saving for last--
HILBRECHT: --all right--
CAGLE: --is there anything else you want to talk about vis-a-vis climate work?
HILBRECHT: No.
CAGLE: Okay, talk to us about the reenactments.
HILBRECHT: Oh my god--(both laugh)--um, yeah, so I used to reenact at a historic
home in Louisville called Locust Grove, and I played, um, who did I play? When I was a kid, I played Eliza Clark. And then I think 01:31:00I played Anne Clark, who are, or Croghan, sorry, Eliza Croghan and Anne Croghan, who are the daughters of Lucy Croghan and William Croghan. Lucy Croghan was William Clark's sister of the Lewis and Clark expedition--CAGLE: --oh--
HILBRECHT: --and also George Rogers Clark's sister, who, you know, quote
unquote, uh, founded Louisville and was a revolutionary war hero who got totally, um, uh, like screwed over by the US government because he lost his something that told them that, that told the US government that he would get land for his being a war hero. Um, yeah, so, you know, he helped defend the Northwest Territory, and then they have a little plantation in Louisville. And the interesting thing that's going on with Locust Grove right now is they're thinking, they're trying to reckon with their, um, history of it being a slave plantation, and 01:32:00that's been really interesting because they have this, you know, reenacting--this history of reenacting, my mom's been doing it for like 26 years. That's really, um, romanticized and sugarcoated the experience of that plantation into just, um, white people having fun. And, you know, we would like do ballroom dancing and like have a big like event during Christmas time. Um, and it was all super fun. And now, um, with the like, since 2020, with, you know, the continued elevation of the Black Lives Matter movement and, um, racial justice movements, you know, Locust Grove is taking action to think about how to, um, reckon with that past. But there's I mean, there's a lot of tension there. Um, it's really interesting.CAGLE: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. So you enjoyed it as a kid?
HILBRECHT: Oh, yeah, I loved it--
CAGLE: --yeah--
HILBRECHT: --it was great. I got to like dress up and pretend
01:33:00like I was from 1813--CAGLE: --uh-huh [affirmative]--
HILBRECHT: --and, um, be like, “excuse me, sir.” Like, [?? WORD UNCLEAR] and
they'd be like, “do you like have a car?” And I'm like, “what's a car?” You know--CAGLE: --uh-huh [affirmative], yeah--
HILBRECHT: --that kind of fun stuff. So I thought it was hot shit, but it was great.
CAGLE: When did you start to see the complexity of it?
HILBRECHT: Um--(clears throat)--mean, not until--because I didn't do it. I
stopped doing it when I was 13. Really not until 2020--CAGLE: --yeah--
HILBRECHT: --um, I just didn't even think about it. They had like a little, um,
space at Locust Grove that was like, this is where the enslaved lived, but it actually wasn't accurate to the building. They just like kind of put it there. So I was kind of like knew that that was a place and like I knew that--like there was like the field right where there was a farm and be like, there were were slave quarters like around here. And I was like oh, okay, but I, you know, grew up in a white, um, world 01:34:00and never really dealt with racial justice or my, you know white privilege or whiteness until recently. It was--I’m ashamed to say but, um, yeah.CAGLE: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. But that is--it’s a product of the environment, right?--
HILBRECHT: --totally. Yeah--
CAGLE: --it’s not surprising--
HILBRECHT: --yeah, totally--
CAGLE: --yeah--
HILBRECHT: --yeah. It's like, it's, uh, really messed up.
CAGLE: Mm-hmm [affirmative], yeah, yeah, so if--and your mom’s still doing
reenactments and part of that conversation, I guess?HILBRECHT: Yeah, yeah--
CAGLE: --yeah--
HILBRECHT: --she's helping to, um--(clears throat)--helping to guide that the
future of that place and they're having like they had a meeting like last night about it. Um, yeah--CAGLE: --yeah--
HILBRECHT: --it's complex for that for the people doing that--
CAGLE: --I'm glad that they’re having the conversations--
HILBRECHT: --yeah, totally--
CAGLE: --yeah--
HILBRECHT: --totally--
CAGLE: --yeah. Um, one last question did just come to mind, which is
01:35:00what's your favorite tree?HILBRECHT: Oh, my favorite tree. My favorite tree is a Catalpa tree. It looks
just so elegant. It's like this hauntingly beautiful tree. Like the, the branches are like in the way that the trunk grows is kind of like twisted and, um, like flowing and like kind of expands outward. So it's a wide canopy. Sometimes, sometimes it's like straight up but yeah, the branches--it's like beautiful in the winter because of the way that the growth habit is like the way that the branches grow, um, in the springtime. They have these like massive purple flowers that seem out of place in Kentucky. Um, the leaves are like giant spade shaped. So in the summer, they're gorgeous. And then in the late summer, they have long bean pods 01:36:00. And so I just think that they look like jewelry like draping off of like some like female aristocrat like with you know, I think of like, you know, beads and jewels and like fur kind of like, um, coat or whatever, like on this tree that's just looks so elegant. Yeah.CAGLE: Can I just say it sounds like it actually sort of brings together what
you're talking about of your childhood self and your adult self.HILBRECHT: I know exactly--(both laugh)--It does.
CAGLE: Your favorite tree is the princess tree.
HILBRECHT: It is--(both laugh)--yeah, exactly.
CAGLE: Yes, alright well thank you so much, Claire--
HILBRECHT: --thank you. This was great--
CAGLE: --I’m all set. And let me hit stop.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
01:37:00