Interview with Lewis W. Cochran, June 13, 1985

Partial Transcript: Um, if it's okay with you, why don't we start out today by just, uh, going over just, uh, for a few minutes this, uh--the movement towards the bachelor of general studies degree..

Segment Synopsis: The movement towards the bachelor of general studies degree was student-initiated at the University of Kentucky. When this program reached the Senate, a meeting was held, but Cochran saw this proposal as a potential academic disaster due to the lack of distribution and quality. Herb Drennon, a respected Assistant Dean of the Department of Arts and Sciences at the time, helped administer this program and turned the program into a respectable and well-formed program. Cochran expresses how many of the faculty and staff members at the University of Kentucky, who supported this program, were motivated and pressed due to the students' “mood” on campus and believed some were acting to please the students. There was limited follow up on students who graduated with this degree, therefore not much is known about the prosperity of students who received this degree.

Keywords: Academic integrity; Bachelor of general studies degree; Department of Arts and Sciences; Graduate school; Herb Drennon; Law school; Student activism; Student leadership; Topical Nature Program; University of Kentucky; University of Kentucky Administration; University of Kentucky Senate; University of Kentucky Senate meeting; University of Kentucky faculty members; University of Kentucky students

Subjects: Campus planning.; College administrators; College campuses.; College environment; College graduates; College majors; College students.; Education--Kentucky; Educational change.; Lexington (Ky.); Student protesters; Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Curricula.; Universities and colleges--Faculty.; University of Kentucky; University of Kentucky. College of Arts and Sciences; University of Kentucky. Graduate School

Partial Transcript: Well, what about this University Senate meeting where you couldn't get recognized?

Segment Synopsis: Overall, Cochran didn’t believe the Senate was performing the way it should and the Senate was not totally concerned with the students the way it was designed. Cochran was the Vice President of Academic Affairs at the time and expressed some frustration with the Senate members. According to Cochran, the members and staff were very considerate of the students' “mood” and lacked “showing a backbone and academic integrity.” The Senate Council showed most excellence in the early and middle 1960s. The relationship between the Senate Council and the administration appeared to have a rocky relationship. The Chairman of the Senate Council during this time participated in political activism and was active in the American Association of University Professors as well as other committees. Cochran says he never considered the Chairman of the Senate Council as “a strong academic leader” and has heard stories of the Chairman of the Senate Council having issues with members, like Otis Singletary.

Keywords: 1960s; Academic leadership; American Association of University Professors (AAUP); Campus and academic quality; Chairman of Senate Council; Otis Singletary; Relationship between Senate and administration; Senate Council; Senate member standards; University of Kentucky; University of Kentucky Senate; University of Kentucky Senate meetings; Vice President of Academic Affairs

Subjects: College administrators; College campuses.; College discipline; College environment; College students.; Lexington (Ky.); Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Faculty.; University of Kentucky

Partial Transcript: I saw, uh, during this period too, I think it's around '72, '73 the University Senate was trying to...

Segment Synopsis: In the early 1970s, the Senate at the University of Kentucky dealt with the administration wanting to get more involved with the budget. Faculty would have meetings with the Senate with analysis of the budget and propositions. The released budget and financial report is based on fund accounting and is very hard to understand and is not written for the public to understand. Cochran says that he has never seen an analysis on the budget that was ever “meaningful” and that it’s almost impossible for anyone to read the reports and know how much anything costs. Malcolm Jewell was respected and seen as a member of the board who could analyze the budget and deal with budget matters. Cochran served as the Chair of the Undergraduate and Graduate Council for many years. The Senate seemed reluctant to deal with any major policy issues, like selective admission.

Keywords: 1970s; Accounting; Admission standards; Budget analysis; Business Vice President; Chair of Graduate Council; Chair of Undergraduate Council; Financial report; Fund accounting; Major policy issues; Malcolm Jewell; Preparation; Selective admission; Senate involvement with the budget; University of Kentucky; University of Kentucky Senate; University of Kentucky Senate meetings; University of Kentucky faculty members; University of Kentucky’s budget; University of Louisville

Subjects: College administrators; College campuses.; College environment; Education--Kentucky; Kentucky.; Lexington (Ky.); Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Faculty; Universities and colleges--Finance; University of Kentucky

Partial Transcript: As far as I can tell, last time we talked about several new appointments during the early seventies and I don't think that we got into the appointment of Art Gallaher as Dean of Arts and Sciences.

Segment Synopsis: During the early 1970s, there was a search committee for a new dean for the Department of Arts and Sciences. Art Gallaher became the new dean. Cochran saw Art Gallaher as a man with administrative talent and good standards. Although Art Gallaher was a great dean, the faculty complained that he did not meet up with the board enough and wouldn’t share a lot of information. Art Gallaher gave advice and encouraged Cochran’s plan for retrenchment to preserve faculty members' positions. In the 1980s, Cochran made a ten-step plan and held a meeting with the American Association of University Professors. The plan suggested taking cuts in part-time and temporary positions and using them to preserve faculty positions, as well as a set of guidelines for teaching workloads. Some deans disagreed and thought this plan would give unjust reward to the part-time teachers compared to full-time teachers, because the plan rewarded those who contributed research. At the end of this, his plan was not accepted and there was a huge reduction in faculty members.

Keywords: 1970s; American Association of University Professors (AAUP); Art Gallaher; Budget cut; Dean of the Department of Arts and Sciences; Department of Chairman; Part-time teachers; Preserve faculty positions; Research; Retrenchment; Teaching workloads; University of Kentucky; University of Kentucky Senate; University of Kentucky Senate meetings; University of Kentucky faculty

Subjects: College administrators; College administrators--Selection and appointment; College teachers, Part-time; College teachers--Workload; Education--Kentucky; Educational change.; Kentucky.; Lexington (Ky.); Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Faculty; Universities and colleges--Research; University of Kentucky; University of Kentucky. College of Arts and Sciences

Partial Transcript: Um, another issue that, uh, that came up that I don't think we touched on was the, uh, the controversy that continued over the Penn Central investment.

Segment Synopsis: There was controversy over a Penn Central investment made by the University of Kentucky. This was a million-dollar investment recommended by the University Employees and Investment Council at the University of Louisville as a high yield investment, but it ended in bankruptcy. The investment was divided between the university, the Athletic Association, and the University of Kentucky Research Foundation. In 1973, the University of Kentucky joined a class action lawsuit against Goldman Sachs Brokerage House for the million dollars lost in an investment. The settlement was around sixty cents to the dollar and the university got to keep the securities. This resulted in significant change in the university's investment behavior. There was also an investment in stocks for businesses in South Africa that caused issues and early on the university decided to abide by the Sullivan Principles. There was one good investment that Cochran remembers that was initiated by Jack Blanton. This investment financed a policy that required the banks that held the university's accounts to pay interest to the university. The first yield from this investment ended up producing the university around half million dollars.

Keywords: 1973; Athletic Association; Bankruptcy, University of Kentucky; CDs; First National Group; Fixed incomes; Goldman Sachs; High yield investment; Investment; Investment Council; Jack Blanton; Lawsuit; Penn Central; Penn Central investment; Preserve capital; School Investment; Settlement; Stocks; Sullivan Principles; University Employees and Investment Council; University of Kentucky Research Foundation (UKRF); University of Kentucky Senate; University of Kentucky Senate controversy; University of Louisville

Subjects: College administrators; College costs.; Economics.; Education--Finance--Kentucky; Kentucky.; Lexington (Ky.); Louisville (Ky.); Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Finance; University of Kentucky

Partial Transcript: Um, on to another, uh, part of the university's operations: the, the law school during this period

Segment Synopsis: The University of Kentucky Law School was very divided. Cochran classified the law faculty into two separate groups. The first group was classified as the “Michigan school” and it was composed of faculty who were dedicated to the education of attorneys. The second group was classified as the “Yale philosophy” and it was composed of the faculty that considered law to be a social science and had concern for social issues beyond the education of attorneys. The law school attempted to get a dean appointed after William L. Mathews left in 1971, but since there was such a division between faculty deciding on who to appoint was very challenging. Eventually, Thomas W. Lewis had accepted, but once he arrived he backed out of this position due to the division and trouble he faced with the faculty. Thomas W. Lewis eventually came back and took the position and made a great dean, in Cochran’s opinion. George Hardy was a dean at the law school before Thomas Lewis came back to take the position and George Hardy was a forceful and strong administrative leader and would either "make peace or make people leave”. After Hardy, the lawyers in Kentucky started to get involved in the law school and the Continuing Education Program was created and thrived. When there were changes in the bankruptcy law, many lawyers came and participated in a course based on these changes. Shortly after this program was created, a set number of hours with continuing education was required to keep licensing in the state of Kentucky.

Keywords: Dean of Law School; Paul Ober; Robert Sedler; Thomas W. Lewis; University of Kentucky; University of Kentucky Law School; University of Kentucky Law School faculty; University of Kentucky Senate; William L. Matthews

Subjects: College administrators; College administrators--Selection and appointment.; College campuses.; Educational change--Kentucky; Lexington (Ky.); Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Faculty; University of Kentucky; University of Kentucky. College of Law

Partial Transcript: What, uh, what did you think, uh, during the seventies as Vice President of Academic Affairs, what was your overall impression of the law school?

Segment Synopsis: Cochran remembers times of frustration with the law school, because he felt the law school was too comfortable, didn’t have specialization, enrollment in lectures was too large, and they didn’t publish enough articles. The Senate pushed the law school to get clinical law into the curriculum, which eventually did happen, and to decrease the class size of the lectures, but the law school didn’t listen. The law school had little interaction with the rest of campus due to having their own resources available for law students and faculty. Overall, Cochran’s impression of the law school was that they were more concerned with autonomy than the quality of education they provided.

Keywords: Academic affairs; American Bar Association; Association of American Law Schools (AALS); Autonomy; Clinical law; Large enrollment; Law research; University of Kentucky Law School; University of Kentucky Senate

Subjects: College administrators; College campuses.; College environment; College students--Books and reading.; College students--social conditions; Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Curricula.; University of Kentucky; University of Kentucky. College of Law

Partial Transcript: And we had a hassle, uh, over the whole period. Um, the law librarian really, um, was not directed and controlled entirely by the Dean of Law.

Segment Synopsis: Cochran remembers one issue the Senate had with the law school that revolved around the law school library. The law school wanted the law librarian to work under the dean of law school, not under the university’s Senate, and they wanted a separate budget from the general library budget for the law library. According to Cochran, the law school even acknowledged that the law library would prosper better under the original arrangement with the Senate, but they still pushed this idea of separation from the Senate. Another issue regarding the law school involved the Area Committee Evaluation. Eventually, the law school was the only college at the University of Kentucky to not go through the regular Area Committee Evaluation. The law school also refused to offer night schooling and part-time positions due to the “philosophy of law school.”

Keywords: Area Committee Evaluation; George W. Hardy; Law Library; Night schools; Otis Singletary; Thomas W. Lewis; University of Kentucky Law School

Subjects: Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Curricula.; Universities and colleges--Evaluation; University of Kentucky; University of Kentucky. College of Law; University of Kentucky. Libraries

Partial Transcript: I guess let's go back to May of, uh, '72 and Governor Ford appoints...

Segment Synopsis: In May of 1972, Governor Ford got involved with the university’s Senate and appointed William Sturgill and Stanley Burlew to the Senate board. There were worries about Wendell Ford becoming governor and his feelings about higher education due to his lack of higher education. Getting the governor on the board was important for the governor to be informed and benefit the university. Cochran felt that William Sturgill, in particular, was a very good chairman of the board. In the beginning of Governor Ford’s administration, legislation was changed and it prompted Governor Ford to leave the board.

Keywords: 1972; Albert G. Clay; Board of Trustees; Governor Ford; Stanley Burlew; University of Kentucky Senate; Wendell Ford; William Sturgill

Subjects: College administrators--Selection and appointment.; College administrators.; Education--Kentucky; Education--Political aspects; Lexington (Ky.); Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Alumni and alumnae; University of Kentucky

Partial Transcript: Uh, now there was some concern and, uh, I, I think I--after I re-read this I remember...

Segment Synopsis: Cochran expresses that the number of Democrats usually outweighed the number of Republicans on the board and some saw this as concerning. Many Republicans, like Richard E. Cooper and George W. Griffin, joined the board because of this. There was also supposed to be a member that represented agriculture interests and they would search for people to fill that requirement. Cochran experienced no influence of political affiliation on decisions and discussions made.

Keywords: Board of Trustees; Democrats; George W. Griffin; Partisan issues; Political affiliations; Republicans; Richard E. Cooper; Senate Board members; University of Kentucky Senate

Subjects: College administrators--Selection and appointment.; College administrators.; College teachers--Political activity; Education--Political aspects; Universities and colleges--Administration.; University of Kentucky

Partial Transcript: Uh, another thing we talked about last time about how effective it was for Singletary...

Segment Synopsis: When the Sunshine Law passed, open meetings were held during board meetings to involve and inform the public on universities' matters. During this time, there was recognition that open communication and transparency between the university and press was needed. Cochran expresses how many of these meetings became “cut dry and brief” and, therefore, the meetings were generally sterile.

Keywords: Herald Leader; Newspapers; Open meetings; Otis Singletary; Sunshine Law; University of Kentucky Press; University of Kentucky Senate

Subjects: Campus planning.; College administrators; College campuses.; College environment; College publications; College publicity; Educational law and legislation--Kentucky; Universities and colleges--Public relations; University of Kentucky; University of Kentucky. Press

Partial Transcript: Uh, in August of '72, uh, there were four appointments to the board.

Segment Synopsis: With more open communication with the press and public, there was concern over the representation and diversity within the Senate. Due to this concern, there were four new members appointed to the board. In August of 1972, Zirl Palmer was appointed and became the first ever black trustee on the board. Jacob Graves, John Woodyard, and Garvice Kincaid were the other three members appointed. There was controversy over the new conservative appointed members.

Keywords: Black representation; Board appointments; First black trustee; Garvice Kincaid; Jacob H. Graves; John Woodyard; Public concern; Public opinion; University of Kentucky Senate; Zirl A. Palmer

Subjects: African Americans--Education (Higher); African Americans--Education--Kentucky--Lexington; College administrators--Selection and appointment.; College administrators.; Universities and colleges--Administration.; University of Kentucky

Partial Transcript: Now when, when Governor Ford went off the Board, Albert Clay became Chairman.

Segment Synopsis: Once Governor Ford left the board, Albert Clay took over as Chairman and Cochran doesn’t remember much change occurring due to this. The main issue with this was that communicating with the governor had to be done differently. William Black was a board member around that time and was very involved in the hospitals. Cochran says that over his period of time on the board, it was a great time and the board has always been filled with great supportive people.

Keywords: Albert G. Clay; Board of Trustees; Frank Ramsey Jr.; Governor Ford; Homer Wendell Ramsey; James A. Sutherland; John R. Crockett; University of Kentucky Senate; Wendell Ford; William R. Black

Subjects: College administrators; College administrators--Selection and appointment.; College teachers--Political activity; Education--Political aspects; Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Faculty.; University of Kentucky

Partial Transcript: Um, well let's move on to another, uh--a sep--a few other points here in the time we have remaining today.

Segment Synopsis: After the appointment of James Miller as the president to University of Louisville, there became some issues during this crucial time in U of L’s history. Not much changed at the University of Kentucky due to the lack of communication between the two universities. James Miller and Otis Singletary had a good relationship, but the University of Kentucky and the University of Louisville have always been competitors in athletics and resources.

Keywords: James E. Miller; Otis Singletary; University of Kentucky; University of Kentucky Senate; University of Louisville

Subjects: Education, Higher--Kentucky; Universities and colleges--Public relations; University of Louisville

Partial Transcript: Um, and also in the spring of '73, there was a search for, uh, um, an executive director of the Council on Higher Education..

Segment Synopsis: In the spring of 1973, there was a search for an executive director for the Council of Higher Education. Arnold Albright was on leave during Otis Singletary's first year and Singletary had already decided his position within the board. Therefore, when Albright came back from his leave he took the position for institutional planning and the role of the executive vice president was not continued. This new position put Albright into more of a staff position.

Keywords: A. D. Albright; Arnold D. Albright; Council of Higher Education; Executive Director of the Council of Higher Education; Executive Vice President; Otis Singletary; University of Kentucky; University of Kentucky Senate

Subjects: College administrators; College administrators--Selection and appointment.; Education--Kentucky; Kentucky.; Lexington (Ky.); Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Faculty; University of Kentucky

Partial Transcript: Uh, I personally wish that he, uh, could have and would have taken a little stronger position on a few issues that, that came up along the way.

Segment Synopsis: Cochran believes that the state of Kentucky has one of the most extensive and prestigious agriculture education programs in the country. The University of Kentucky discussed this with many other universities in the AD and there were no changes made to the program. This was due to the costs and was a disappointment to Cochran. In April of 1973, Arnold Albright and Glenwood Creech left the board.

Keywords: AID; Academic programs in agriculture; Agriculture education in Kentucky; Arnold D. Albright; Evaluation of agriculture programs; Glenwood L. Creech; Graduate programs; Murray State University; Staff vs. Council; University of Kentucky; University of Kentucky Senate

Subjects: Agriculture.; Campus planning.; College administrators; College majors; College students.; Education--Kentucky; Kentucky.; Lexington (Ky.); School management and organization.; Universities and colleges--Administration.; Universities and colleges--Faculty.; University of Kentucky; University of Kentucky. College of Agriculture.

Partial Transcript: Um, just, a, a couple of smaller things here.

Segment Synopsis: In March of 1973 there was an agreement between Kentucky State and the University of Kentucky for a joint engineering program. This program would allow students to go to Kentucky State University for three years and get their degree in engineering at the University of Kentucky for their final year. Centre College had a similar program with 3 or 4 different colleges as well. Part of the reason for this was the need for diversity and more black students in professional courses at the University of Kentucky.

Keywords: 3:2 Program; Black students; Centre College; Cooperation between institutions; GE money; Joining engineering agreement; Kentucky State University; Undergraduate engineering programs

Subjects: African American college students.; College campuses.; College students, Black; College students.; Education--Kentucky; Kentucky.; Lexington (Ky.); Students; Universities and colleges--Admission; Universities and colleges--Curricula.; University of Kentucky; University of Kentucky. College of Engineering