00:00:00J. WILSON: Peace Corps Oral History Project, October 27, 19--- 2004.
Interview with Angene H. Wilson. Would you please give me your full
name?
00:01:00
A. WILSON: Angene Hopkins Wilson.
J. WILSON: And where were you born, Angene?
A. WILSON: I was born on January 3, 1939 in Cleveland, Ohio.
J. WILSON: And tell me something about your family and your growing up.
A. WILSON: Well, I was the oldest of five children and I grew up until I
went away to college in Lakewood, Ohio which is a western suburb.
J. WILSON: Of Cleveland?
A. WILSON: Of Cleveland, right. And my father was an attorney and my
mother was a homemaker. I was active in--on the newspaper--and in
choir and those kinds of things when I was in high school, but I also
was part of a, oh I think there were other students beside me who went
00:02:00downtown and worked at settlement houses so I had some interaction with
kids that were coming from a different socio-economic class and kids
who had moved in from Appalachia from example. And then summer after I
was in, I graduated from high school and at least two maybe three other
summers I was a camp counselor and water safety instructor at Hiram
House Camp which is a settlement camp and which drew on kids from the
Cleveland area who otherwise wouldn't have had an opportunity to go to
camp including quite a number of African Americans. We also had always
00:03:00had international counselors at that camp, particularly counselors from
Germany who were part of the Cleveland International Program which had
been started after World War II as an exchange with Germany.
J. WILSON: And where did you go to college and what did you study?
A. WILSON: I went to the College of Wooster where my parents had gone
to school and where my grandparents and cousins still lived, so Wooster
was a very familiar place to me.
J. WILSON: And that is located where?
A. WILSON: That's about 65 miles south of Cleveland.
J. WILSON: In Ohio.
A. WILSON: In Ohio, right. And I majored in history and tried to do
00:04:00something different in history. I was interested in sort of the rest
of the world and at one point thought maybe I would do my independent
study, which is required in junior and senior year at the College of
Wooster, on something in India or something more exotic than Western
Europe or the US. I never took any US history in college until I
was a senior and I knew I had to have it in order to get a teaching
certificate. But because I was just interested in other places, but
I ended up doing my independent study on France and England anyway
because there were many more sources at that time. My, between my
junior year and my senior year my father asked me if I would like
to go to Europe with Fran Guille who was the French professor and
was also a classmate of his. And that was his idea not mine though,
00:05:00but I was gone for six weeks in the summertime, studied in Paris for
four weeks where we couldn't speak anything but French until 10:00 at
night and then we were too tired to speak English, and also traveled
in Switzerland and Italy and Holland. And that was a real important
experience. I remember saying to my father that that was worth at
least a semester in college and I knew that he had set a precedent by
doing that because he was going to have to do that for my four younger
siblings as well, which my parents in fact did do. So that was a
highlight I guess of my time in college.
J. WILSON: And you graduated when and--?
A. WILSON: In June of 1961.
00:06:00
J. WILSON: And what kind of jobs or activities did you engage in after
college and before Peace Corps?
A. WILSON: Well I started trying to get a job in teaching. I came to
teaching late, I mean I knew I had to have something to do and so I
did get a teacher certificate with courses and by correspondence and
did my student teaching in a little town outside of Wooster. But I
did try to get a job while my husband Jack was going to go to graduate
school in East Lansing and so I was trying to get some kind of a
teaching job and there weren't a whole lot of jobs for social studies
teachers. And I was offered a job teaching Latin and I'd had two years
00:07:00of high school Latin; I certainly didn't want to do that. But finally
and I don't remember exactly when it came through but sometime in
August right before we were married on the 26th, I got a job teaching
social studies, teaching American history and American government,
and psychology and sociology, and 8th grade US history at Perry which
is a small school outside of East Lansing. Interesting, one of the
interesting things about that was that there was a home there for kids
whose parents were missionaries in Nigeria who came back to go to high
school in Perry. So that I learned some things about Nigeria from
those kids; you wouldn't have found in a small rural high school I
wouldn't have had that opportunity I guess.
J. WILSON: This was Perry, Michigan?
A. WILSON: This was Perry, Michigan, correct, right.
00:08:00
J. WILSON: Okay, so how did you find out about the Peace Corps and why
did you want to join?
A. WILSON: Well I, we knew about the Peace Corps because of John Kennedy
even though I voted for Nixon because he had more experience which
was-- I remember arguing with a high school boyfriend about that the
summer before that and because he was a Democrat but my parents were
Republicans. And so I made the mistake of voting for Nixon. But when
there began to be some information about what the Peace Corps was going
to be like and of course it started in March 1, 1961. We somehow, Jack
00:09:00and I somehow got applications; they were very long to fill out as I
recall. We did have some other friends who were thinking about Peace
Corps too but we got those applications off fairly early and were, we
understand among the first 100 or so people to apply. We stapled our
applications together so they'd take us even though we were not married
yet because we were planning on getting married in August. And I think
that I mean certainly the summer before having gone to France I could
see that traveling was going to be real exciting. We did not put down
a particular country; I don't think you could do that at that time. We
just thought it would be a really exciting thing to do. I think that,
and I don't remember the both of us had read that book and how we read
The Ugly American, but The Ugly American had been out within the year
00:10:00before. And so we knew about issues of how we ought to be helping or
working with the rest of the world I guess in different ways. And it
was sort of an exciting time in terms of things that were happening. I
mean the civil rights movement was beginning and we were interested in
that and so we applied to the Peace Corps.
J. WILSON: And tell me something about that process and when you went?
A. WILSON: Well we got married on August 26, we went on our honeymoon
in Michigan, we came back and we had a telegram that said that we were
to report for training in for the Philippines. And but we decided we
00:11:00couldn't do that; my husband was starting graduate school and I had
a job that was starting the next week in Perry, Michigan and we just,
we couldn't do that. So we asked if we could be, if we could, our
admittance could be delayed, and then we heard in April that we had
been chosen to go to Liberia.
J. WILSON: This is April of?
A. WILSON: Of '62. And it was right before I was going to have to
sign a contract for the next year and I know the people at the school
thought I was kind of crazy. And the same things were, my husband was
in the middle of a master's degree and they thought he was crazy. And
actually we had to break a contract that we had signed with a camp, I
don't even remember where the camp was--someplace in the east--where we
were going to be camp counselors for the summer. And they weren't very
00:12:00happy with us about that either. But anyway we said yes we would do
that and went to training in Pittsburgh in June and by right before our
anniversary in late August we were in Liberia.
J. WILSON: Can you tell me something about your Peace Corps training?
What was that like?
A. WILSON: Well in those days the Peace Corps training was pretty
academic and it was in terms of a teaching style it was stand and
deliver. I mean we had lots and lots of speakers, many good ones, we
had-- I think the person who was at that point secretary of education
for Liberia came; we had anthropologists like James Gibbs and Warren
D'Azevedo who had done field work in Liberia and talked to us about
00:13:00culture. We had classes in educational techniques; I had already
taught and that was an advantage. I remember distinctly them telling
us and showing us a new technology which was the overhead projector,
of course we couldn't use the overhead projector in Liberia. Our, the
education folks were pretty-- There was one at least Pappas, who was
pretty creative and had some creative ideas I think. And we also had,
you know, physical training; we were supposed to do the exercises in
the Royal Canadian Mounted Police or I don't know something like that
handbook. And then we also were evaluated by psychologists who thought
00:14:00that having twelve couples in this group of 100 trainees was kind
of strange. They hadn't had that many couples before and one of the
famous things that we did was they wanted to interview us separately
and the couples all decided that was a, you know, ploy to find out
something about us, you know, about each other from each spouse. And
we decided we wouldn't do that. At that point the psychologists had
quite a bit to do with who got selected and who got deselected. And
I don't remember; there were some people who were deselected; I don't
remember the details about that. But we also had kind of a good time;
we played lots of hearts, we got to know people in our group pretty
well and we were proud of being the first group to go to Liberia. We
00:15:00went on a prop plane 23 hour flight with one stop to Monrovia, we took
a white chicken with us and when we got off the plane we presented
that, that was the thing to do, to present a white chicken to I think
the secretary of education came to meet the plane as I recall. And
that was, that was exciting.
J. WILSON: And so you were the first group into Liberia. How large was
the group and when did you actually arrive there?
A. WILSON: Oh in late August, the group was not quite 100; I think we
were maybe 95 or something like that. I don't remember the exact--
J. WILSON: Of 1962?
A. WILSON: Yeah the group one, right.
J. WILSON: And when you arrived in country, what happened? Where did you
serve and--?
00:16:00
A. WILSON: Yeah we went to BWI for some in country training a little bit
and that was--
J. WILSON: BWI?
A. WILSON: Booker Washington Institute in Kalata which is maybe 30
miles from Monrovia, we were sleeping on army cots and that was-- And
it was pretty much camping out. Then we were assigned to a National
Convention Baptist boarding school about 25 miles northwest of Monrovia
on the way to Bopolu. The village of Suehn itself was a Gola village;
the boarding school had been started by a missionary by the name of
Mother Mae and that was in the 1930s. She was a superintendent and at
00:17:00that point was also mostly working with the clinic. I think at that
point she may have been as old as 65 and we saw her as being very old
but then we were very young. There was, not when we got there, but
soon after Gladys East came back from leave and she was the principal
and had grown up actually in South Africa. And then there were two
other missionaries from the US and the school was boarding school but
was essentially kindergarten through 12th grade. There were a number
of Liberian teachers who had college education. Esther Roberts did
00:18:00the kindergarten and had, oh I don't know, several hundred children in
that. Then Florence Davis who was one of the-- And I think probably,
I think Esther maybe was also an adopted child of Mother Mae. Mother
Mae had not just girls but was particularly interested in girls getting
an education and to talk to the Gola chiefs about wanting girls to
get education. And Florence was not the first, I think Shirley Davis
who was before our time was another girl that she got educated. But
Florence actually went to the United States to go to college and she
had recently come back when we were there and she was a real important
person in terms of being a, I think helping Mother Mae understand
00:19:00our foibles and probably helping us understand Liberia. I think you
always have to have somebody who you can, who sort of you can talk
to who knows a little bit about the culture but also knows something
about your culture. And there were no other Americans or no other
white people there at that time; we were it. And we were obviously
different from the missionaries. I think we--both of us--have pointed
out to ourselves in reflecting upon that experience that we really
had two cross cultural experiences in Liberia. One was with African
Americans and the other was with Liberians. And although there are
00:20:00some commonalities there were also differences and so we were learning
about these African American missionaries and their particular take on
things. We were also learning about so called "Americo Liberians" who
were descendents of settlers and who'd come from the United States. And
then we were learning about kids whose background was growing up in a
Gola village and so maybe we even had three cross cultural experiences.
J. WILSON: So your students were from more than the local village?
A. WILSON: Oh yeah, our students were from lots of different places
and lots of different ethnic backgrounds, particularly the high school
00:21:00students. And there were some that were from Monrovia because their
parents thought it was safer and better for them to be out in the bush
than in Monrovia. So we had a diversity of kids with, I mean some
of our-- One of our high school students who later came to the United
States to go to college had actually lived in the United States when
her mother had been going to school in the US. And another student
in the same class as Dorothy, Hawa Sherman came from a family that was
very politically involved at that point and later and would have been
classified as Americo Liberian. On the other hand, one of the students
that we helped go to school in Liberia and later college education and
00:22:00have kept in contact since then and is our Liberian son as it were,
came from a village and was the son of one of the wives of his father.
And there were other kids who came from similar backgrounds.
J. WILSON: So more specifically what was your job?
A. WILSON: I was teaching social studies and I taught as I recall, I
think I only taught five classes. So I'm not sure which of the grades
7-12 I didn't teach because I remember teaching a 7th grade. So maybe
I didn't teach the 8th grade, I'm not sure. But I was teaching social
studies; so I was teaching world history, Liberian history, social
00:23:00studies in general. I was very lucky; I know that very quickly in a
few years after Peace Corps started there were--nobody was teaching
social studies because social studies was about a country's history and
government and its relationship with the rest of the world typically.
And that's not something most countries want to put in the hands
of someone who's not a citizen of the country. So I was incredibly
lucky to get to teach social studies and therefore have to learn a
lot about African history. And that was probably the most exciting
part of my teaching because I went down to Monrovia looking for things
and I bought West Africa Magazine when it came out and at that point
they had regular features on history written by the eminent British
historian Basil Davidson. I found in a Muslim bookstore two books by
00:24:00him, one about West Africa and one about the slave trade which I mined
for information. And I also tried to learn Liberian history; there
were textbooks about Liberian history. Pretty much slanted toward
the settler, Americo Liberia perspective, but we did do in class-- For
example I think the 7th graders wrote a book about Suehn history and
went and interviewed people about history. So it was really lots of
fun to teach history and to look for materials. We didn't have much
besides the blackboard and we got some newsprint and so we--I put that
00:25:00up. I don't even remember whether that was on kind of an easel or how
we put that up. But I made a map of Africa, the students all had to
learn all the countries of Africa and the capitals, and we did role
plays. We have a slide of one of the students acting as President
Tubman, one acting as Sekou Toure, and one acting as Kwame Nkumah
because this was also a very exciting time in African history. All the
countries were getting their independence; of course Liberia had been
independent like Ethiopia. But Ghana had gotten independence recently
and Nigeria got its independence in 1960 and then others followed. So
we learned a lot together.
J. WILSON: What about your living conditions?
00:26:00
A. WILSON: We lived on the second floor of a building that looked
like it belonged in the southern part of the United States--had a
porch up and down, two rooms, three rooms downstairs. One was the
clinic, one was something we turned into the library, and another was
the classroom. Upstairs we had a bedroom with two iron single beds
that we pushed together that had straw mattresses that weren't real
comfortable. And then we had sort of an interior room that sometimes
we used as a classroom, and a porch on the front, and a porch on
the side. And on the porch on the side we put a table and chairs
and that's where we usually did most of our grading papers and where
we ate meals. And then on the porch, the porch we used for hanging
00:27:00our laundry, for ironing. I was ironing with a charcoal iron, and
sometimes if it was rainy season you could stick--or I could stick my
head out over the porch and wash my hair in the rain. And we had a
small kitchen; we actually had a kerosene stove. And we had a bathroom
with a toilet and a sink but no running water. We did have a barrel
at the top of the stairs that little boys brought buckets of water and
filled the barrel. And then sometimes they would heat up water and
bring it up for a smoky bath in about two inches of water maybe. And
we had a refrigerator--that was a kerosene refrigerator. That was a
big, good sized refrigerator that we-- I don't remember exactly what
00:28:00we did put in the refrigerator. I guess we had water. We had to boil
our water and filter our water and that was a big job. We had to get
up there and you got up in the morning you had to put on a big pot with
water and boil it for 20 minutes and then put it through the filter and
then we would get Log Cabin syrup bottles and fill them water and put
them in the fridge so we had cold water. And one of the things that
we didn't keep that tradition when we came back to the States, but I
know that Liberian friends who've come here, you know, I'm often asked,
"Well where's your water in the refrigerator?" because that was a
tradition at the school too and with people who had a refrigerator and
could have boiled filtered water.
J. WILSON: What would you say was the most difficult thing to adjust to
00:29:00in Liberia?
A. WILSON: Well I don't know what the most difficult thing to adjust to
actually. The--
J. WILSON: You adjusted easily?
A. WILSON: I think, well I think we were lucky because we were married
and we could talk to each other and we also had jobs to do teaching.
And so while we might occasionally be frustrated by differences with
the way we saw what ought to happen in teaching and what was required.
I mean we caused a big fuss at one point because we got really--I got
00:30:00really upset because when the kids-- And I don't remember now whether
this was for discipline or whether it was bad grades. It seems to
me it was bad grades; they got rapped on the knuckles with a rattan
by Mother Mae and I thought that was just awful. Maybe Miss East
did it, I don't remember. And we complained about that and I think
about that now because teaching a course on cross cultural education
for students who student teach overseas, I am aware of differences in
how discipline is done in other countries and so forth. But we were
very idealistic and naive and I think, I mean one can only imagine
the kinds of discussions that Mother Mae and Miss East must have had
about us because the Peace Corps required that we have a stove and I
00:31:00think they provided the refrigerator. But we found out much, much,
much later probably when we went home I think that the stove that the
mission brought down for us was the one they were using to boil the
water for the bottles for the babies. I mean you know Mother Mae was
still running an orphanage up the hill. I think, I think the Peace
Corps was-- Well I know the Peace Corps gave us more in those early
days than people got later. They were concerned about what we were
going to do so they gave us a book locker that had, I don't know 50, 75
books in it and I think we got a desk that was in pieces that we had to
put together that they ordered from Sears or something. Is that right?
00:32:00I can't remember. And I don't know why we needed that; I mean we had
a table. But I guess all of that to say that I was not by myself so I
think that made a big difference. We were at a boarding school where
we had jobs to do and that made a big difference. And we had wonderful
Liberian colleagues as teachers, several of whom were college educated,
four or five of them. And so we had people that we could talk with and
in that, I mean host country nationals, and that made a big difference
too. So I guess what I'm saying is there were a lot of reasons why our
00:33:00adjustment was not so difficult.
J. WILSON: And so you feel you were well prepared to go to Liberia?
A. WILSON: I think so in terms of the culture. I think we were fairly
well prepared. Looking back, there are things that we didn't know but
then at that point anthropologists weren't focusing so much on the fact
that women did farming and some of those things that I've learned since
I guess. We knew about the secret societies and we were smart enough
that when the kids well say, "Well you could go down to Suehn Town
because the bush devils are out but they won't both you." To think,
"Well no, you know maybe that's not such a smart thing to do." I mean I
00:34:00think we had a healthy respect for what the culture was and my husband
found out that when a couple of his basketball players had-- I don't
even remember whether they were sprained ankles or were there broken
bones or whatever, there were specialists in a village--a neighboring
village--who were bone specialists essentially and were very good at
setting bones. And so I think that those are examples of the fact that
we had learned something about the culture and we respected that.
J. WILSON: Can you tell me what a typical day would be like?
A. WILSON: Well, in Liberia and the tropics near the equator the sun
00:35:00comes up about 6-6:30 and sets about 6-6:30 and so my husband would
get up really early, sometimes as early as 5:30 I think to coach
basketball. I would get up and I guess probably get breakfast. I
don't even remember what we had for breakfast. I mean we had oatmeal
sometimes or I-- I don't remember. Or I might be baking bread and
boiling water, doing those kinds of things. And then school started
about 7:30 and went till about 1:30 so we would be, you know we would
be teaching during those hours. And then in the afternoon there were
extra curricular activities and I taught cooking to the girls. And so
they might come up and be cooking or we would be doing things just to
live. Like somebody did wash our clothes in the creek but I did the
00:36:00ironing and I would-- We had other projects like we developed a library
so might be supervising some kids who were working in the library. And
we had, we'd eat lunch, we might walk up the road to see some friends.
Once we bought the grapefruit on a grapefruit tree from some folks
who lived up the road. A number of the teachers lived up the road. I
don't think we too often walked as far as Mecca which was the Muslim
town that was some miles up the road. But there might be soccer games
or basketball games or volleyball games going on. And sometimes the
kids would come down to the, students would come down to our house
00:37:00because we'd let them play ELBC which was the government radio station
instead of the mission station. And so they might be able to get away
with dancing at our house. And so I think those are about what we
did. We did other extra curricular activities. Jack directed a play.
I'm trying to think what other kinds of things like that. Yeah, I
mentioned the library I think before.
J. WILSON: So what did you do for recreation?
A. WILSON: Well I've already said we've walked up the road. We went
swimming in the creek; we were less than or at 25 miles from the
coast so there wasn't supposed to be schistosomaisis and so we did go
swimming when it was rainy season. Rainy season's about half the year
00:38:00in Liberia and that doesn't mean it rains all the time but it rains
a lot. Sometimes the road flooded and kids couldn't get to school,
couldn't get down to-- Well if they were walking from up the road down
to school. We went on hikes with people to-- Once we went on a hike to
a village where some of our students were doing a church service. Once
we-- A couple of times I think we went on a hike to Alfred Kennedy's
village and then sometimes we went to Monrovia with the school truck
or the school bus. And then occasionally at one point, occasionally
we got rides from somebody up country. And I think we even had access
00:39:00to a Jeep for a little while so we could get into Monrovia and go to
Aboujadi's, the Lebanese supermarket, and buy things there that you
could get in the United States. I mean particularly I remember we
could get things like pudding cakes which were something out. They
don't even have them any more. And brownies and cake mixes, we could
buy those. We could buy-- There was no market near where we were
really. You could buy oranges from women who sat under the tree and
sold things like that. But we could buy oranges in Monrovia. We
got pineapples from somebody, one of our teachers who had a pineapple
farm up the road. But when we went into Monrovia we might see other
volunteers, we might go out to Oscar's which was a Swiss guy who had
00:40:00a restaurant on the beach and have a steak. And sometimes we went to
visit other volunteers. At the school breaks we were supposed to have
other projects and one of our friends in Careysburg. I think they were
building latrines and we went and helped do that. And another time we
went all the way to the far what east of the country. Another time we
went up to Gbarnga and we went actually. Well I guess you're going to
ask me about travel but we also did some travel outside the country.
J. WILSON: Well go ahead and tell me about your outside Liberia travels.
00:41:00
A. WILSON: Well we did a trip-- We were trying to go to Timbuktu and
we didn't get to Timbuktu but we did go up country in Liberia through
Gbarnga, through Voijama and Kolahun, got the train which was still
running in Sierra Leone at that point at Pendembu and took the train
all the way to Freetown which as I recall was about 18 hours or
something--very slow. I think we could go faster probably on the
road. We got to Freetown and we took a taxi to Conakry, the capital
of Guinea, got to Guinea late at night and went and found somebody who
was with the American embassy and I think threw stones at his window
or something in order to get his attention. And we were starving and
he left us for some reason to go do something and told us to eat what
00:42:00we-- Find what we could in the refrigerator and eat it, and he was an
embassy person and so we figured he had, you know, he had lots of food
and he had lots of eggs. So we made Jack Soldate, there were three
of us traveling together, and Jack Soldate who was the other person
made omelets and we found out that when he got home that those were
eggs that had just been flown in from Paris. And so we were totally,
well we were very sorry. But that was when Guinea was still suffering
because they became independent in 1958 I think and the French just
left them and pulled out everything and they tore down all the statues
of French generals and so forth and they really didn't have much in
stores at all. We got on a train which was a Lumuba train named after
00:43:00the short lived leader in Congo and went to Kankan by train. And
then we took a big truck and sat in the back of that truck and went to
Bamako which is the capitol of Mali. And in Bamako discovered that the
water was too low in the Niger River and we couldn't go to Timbuktu.
So we flew back to Dakar and did we fly back to Dakar or did we take a
train? I'm not sure actually. And then flew back to Monrovia. Because
I think we took a boat, maybe we took a boat back. But I was thinking
we took a boat to Nigeria. Anyway I think maybe we took a plane.
00:44:00But anyway it was a very interesting trip. Probably the best story
from that trip is that we were at the border between Guinea and Mali
and the gendarmes stopped us. And I don't remember at that point we
were on a truck, and so I don't remember--I guess we had to go through
customs. And so Jack Soldate took a picture and the gendarmes had a
fit and were going to carry us off to whatever the nearest town was.
And luckily for us the Mali ambassador or the Liberian ambassador
to Mali or the Mali ambassador to Liberia--that's what it was--was
returning from Bamako driving and came through and said, "Oh these
00:45:00are Peace Corps people. These are all right. These people--" Because
there wasn't any Peace Corps in Mali or Guinea at that point and so
he vouched for us and we got out of that place. The other thing I
remember, I think that was at that border not at the-- It was the
border with Sierra Leone I think where we stayed overnight and slept
in the customs person's house. But I think that was the place where he
was going through everything and the kind of birth control I was using
at that point was a diaphragm and you know I couldn't explain what that
was to him. Anyway, but that was a really interesting trip because
although there were certainly Muslims in Liberia and the school cook
was Muslim and it wasn't that we didn't know anything about Muslims,
00:46:00but Guinea and Mali were really Muslim countries and so they stopped
to pray five times a day and they stopped to get water so they would
wash before they prayed. And that was a really interesting trip. It's
one of those things that you look back on and think, "Oh how did we
do that? And was that a good thing to do?" But in West Africa at that
point it seemed as though it was safe to travel that way and I don't
remember seeing other Europeans as everybody was ----------(??) you
really whether you were an American or a European. On that trip except
in Conakry with that embassy person, but it was a--
J. WILSON: Side two of interview with Angene Wilson. Angene, you were
00:47:00talking about you travel.
A. WILSON: Travel, and that that was a very interesting trip. We ended
up in Dakar. And I should say about Dakar that one of the things we
did was we went out to Goree Island and that was our first experience
seeing something that had to do with the slave trade and that certainly
made an impression on us. Our other big trip was going to Nigeria
in January of 1964. We went to Nigeria and spent a month traveling
around by train. We took the train from Lagos to Ibadan; we spent
a wonderful time in the University of Abaddon bookstore getting all
00:48:00kinds of Nigerian literature, African literature, history. We went to
Oshogbo and got, bought current poetry and plays. I mean Wole Soyinka
was writing at that point, Chinua Achebe. It was just fantastically
exciting. Black Orpheus was a magazine that was being printed. We
brought back a huge box of books. And then we went on up to, went
north to Kano to the Hausa/Fulani region and saw the big mosque in
Kano and came back by train through Jos down to Enugu, visited the
University of Nigeria there. Went across from Enugu into Cameroon,
00:49:00went up from Mamfe to Batibo and Bamenda on the road that was up on
Monday, Wednesday, Friday and was down on Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday,
and visited good friends of ours from college who were Peace Corps
volunteers in Batibo at a boarding school there teaching and who had
had a baby during Peace Corps. And so that was really exciting to see
them. And came back then through Enugu and stopped in Onitsha, stopped
in Benin, saw the-- A lot of, for me I think one of the exciting things
about being in Nigeria was all the history and I was beginning to
learn about what the Benin Empire was and we got to go and see that
and see-- Actually buy and have to take to the museum in Lagos a couple
00:50:00of bronze statues that were made by the lost wax process; we had to
take the statues to the museum to be sure that we could take them out
of the country, that they weren't that old. And so that was a very
exciting trip. We had some-- We stayed with friends, I don't remember
now whether they were in Kano or Kaduna, a volunteer who had been in
our group and then married a staff person and they were--he was then a
Peace Corps person for the north and we stayed with them. We stayed in
an awful hotel in Jos. We stayed with some, I don't know how we found
those people, some people who were associated with the church someplace
and I have a picture of that church someplace in eastern Nigeria. And
00:51:00so anyway that was a great trip. Then on our way back we were flying I
think and stopped in Abidjan and spent a day or two in Abidjan. It was
interesting to see the difference with Dakar and Abidjan particularly
and what a francophone--a country that had been under the French
colonial rule--how that differed from say Nigeria and Sierra Leone, and
then how those all differed from Liberia which was the closest thing to
an American colony.
J. WILSON: You mentioned earlier something about boiling water for
your drinking at your assignment and about shopping in the capital for
things like brownies and cake mixes and so forth. But can you tell me
something more about what you actually ate or what your food was and
00:52:00how you ate and drank--what you drank in your travels?
A. WILSON: Well that's a good question. And I don't know how-- Well
there was no bottled water then that was safe, and so really what you
drank was soft drinks. You drank coke and fanta--orange fanta and we
drank boiled water. We sometimes tried to make milk with -- Carnation
had some dried milk that would make milk that you could drink if it
had some chocolate in it or if-- Or you could use for cereal. We got
can-- We ate a lot of rice. I don't know how many times a week we
would have had rice but probably four or five I would think. We didn't
00:53:00eat it absolutely every day or for every meal like Liberians do but we
ate it a lot. We occasionally had meat or chicken because the mission
had a farm and had cows and had chickens. I made bread regularly.
I suppose we probably bought peanut butter but I don't remember. I
don't remember that but I think we could probably get peanut butter.
And we didn't eat a lot-- I didn't fix a lot of Liberian food. We
ate Liberian food, we ate palm butter with chicken, we ate-- I didn't
really like cassava leaf but potato greens --it was okay. Because what
00:54:00most Liberians eat is rice with some kind of soup on it with dried fish
which I wasn't fond of either. And one of the funny things was that
Mother Mae sent us some liver once when they killed a calf. Now I like
liver actually, I grew up eating liver but Jack didn't think that was
really that exciting. So does that answer your question about food?
J. WILSON: You also mentioned earlier something about some of your
fellow teachers. But can you expand on your relationships with host
nationals? Did you actually consider those teachers your counterparts?
A. WILSON: Yeah I think we were extremely lucky in having wonderful
what Peace Corps would call counterparts--people who had college
00:55:00educations and were definitely our peers. I know that sometimes Peace
Corps volunteers were in situations if they were doing say community
development where they wouldn't be in situations where they would have
a lot maybe to-- The people wouldn't be at the same, wouldn't have
the same kinds of education and so that meant that it was-- You had
to go maybe to expatriates to find people to talk to about certain
kinds of things. But that was not true for us and besides Florence
who I've mentioned and who then went to live in England and actually
we went to see her, stayed with her and her husband on our way home
from Peace Corps in 1964. She's somebody we've kept in contact ever
00:56:00since and spent a week with us last spring when she was back here. And
Bibi Roberts who was the biology teacher and the farm manager again
is somebody that we have kept contact with over all these years and
who visited us when he was doing his master's work in Virginia in the
1980s and then whose son came and went to Berea College here and lived
with us for a year and his mother came and stayed with us at one point
when he was getting married. And now they're back here because their
son has just become a citizen and they can stay and those kinds of
connections have just been wonderful. I've mentioned Alfred Kennedy;
those kinds of friendships have been wonderful. I mentioned Alfred
00:57:00Kennedy earlier; he lives in London now. We speak, you know, every
month or so and he did his master's here in the United States at the
University of Kentucky, as a matter of fact. So, and they're not the
only ones. We went to a Suehn Academy Reunion several years ago.
J. WILSON: Suehn Academy was the school?
A. WILSON: Was the school.
J. WILSON: Name of the school.
A. WILSON: Suehn Industrial Academy because everybody worked; that's why
it was an industrial academy sort of modeled after Tuskegee actually.
And so several years ago we went to this reunion and saw people that
we hadn't seen since we were teaching and that was both a teacher and
a number of students. And that was absolutely wonderful to see these
folks, and one of the things we were able to do because of the war has
meant that some of those folks don't have pictures from 40 years from
00:58:00when they were in school or in one case pictures of a family. And
we were able to give the Suehn Industrial Academy Association--Suehn
Association is what it's called. We were able to give the Suehn
Association a whole carousel of slides of 1962 to 1964; lots of
pictures of students and activities at the--and teachers' activities at
the school.
J. WILSON: What about interactions with other Americans, Peace Corps
people or?
A. WILSON: Yeah, right. Well again the Americans who were African
Americans who were running the school were people that we have kept
contact with, particularly Miss East who died just a few years ago.
But ironically just this year we discovered that one of the people
00:59:00who had been there as a missionary for a year when we were there is now
living in Kentucky. And so I didn't--wasn't able to go up there but my
husband took Bibi and Jemima. Bibi was the biology teacher and Jemima
was one of our students whom he later married and who are in the States
now. He took them up to see her and that was a real, real reunion. So
we had relationships there; we had good relationships with the people
who were our Peace Corps staff and kept those relationships for some
time. The director, the associate director, the doctor, those folks
were terrific. And then the Peace Corps volunteers themselves we had
01:00:00very good friends, Jack Soldate who lived up the road in Bopolu who
later worked for CARE. Our, several couples--two couples that we just
saw a summer a year ago when we went out to Portland for the National
Peace Corps Association Conference; they weren't there but we stayed
with one couple for several days in Nebraska on the way back and saw
another couple while we were out there. And so those kinds of again
connections and friendships we've kept.
J. WILSON: Are there any particularly memorable stories that you would
like to share?
A. WILSON: Well I think the story from being on that trip is a good one.
01:01:00We weren't quite as adventuresome as a couple of our colleagues who
became infamous because they went across the Sahara Desert. But we,
those trips were really special kinds of things I think. I suppose one
thing that one became aware of when one was living in Liberia was that
death was not something that was antiseptic and away from you. And
that happened because while on occasion we were lucky and our CPR that
we had learned saved a person that had almost drowned in the creek, on
01:02:00another occasion a student who was epileptic we didn't get out of the
creek in time. We didn't know to get out in time and he died and was
lying on a bench on the first floor of our house before they then took
him back to the village to be buried. And also just seeing the sick
people come in to Mother Mae's clinic, the babies; you knew that life
was a lot less for certain in Liberia, that it was possible for little
babies to die because of the measles or the chicken pox. And childhood
diseases that we didn't have to worry about and we had to-- We took
01:03:00our malaria suppressants faithfully and we managed to not get malaria.
But again you knew that that was something that people had to live
with and suffer through. Just getting to know all kinds of people,
one-- I've talked about our colleagues, the teachers that we were good
friends with. But I don't want to imply that just because somebody
didn't have a college education wasn't somebody we got to know. Ma
Becky who was an old woman who lived down the road would come and ask
us for some rice and we would give her rice in a Ritz cracker tin that
was empty and then she would tell stories. And the little boys would
come and sit on our porch and she would tell stories in Gola with the
01:04:00local language with motions. You know she was, you knew she was a
rowing a canoe or whatever else was happening. And we at one point
tried as an extra activity to do some teaching of English and we got to
know people like Papa Musa who was the cook and who was Muslim. And so
there were, there were those kinds of experiences as well. We learned
about a different kind of, way of celebrating your religion and that
was, that was a challenge. Sometimes I think we would have preferred
01:05:00to just stay in our house and play a tape--or I would have--of play a
tape of Bach organ music on a tape recorder. But we did go to church
sometimes; we did occasionally go and see what was going on at the
revivals. And those were important kinds of things for our students
and that was an education for us too--how to deal with differences in
the way people practice their religion. We, one of our choir director
who was an African American woman from Philadelphia, wouldn't look at
the Club brewery as we went by going into Monrovia, and we just thought
01:06:00that was kind of silly I guess but anyway we survived.
J. WILSON: So what was it like coming home to the US? You terminated
in 1964.
A. WILSON: And we traveled in Europe. We got our-- We spent our, I
think our allowance that we got. We got $75 as a month as I recall put
in our savings account and we spent one of those, to spent $1500 to buy
a Volkswagen bug. We picked it up in Rome, we went to Athens, Greece,
met my brother who was staying with my host brother from Greece who
had lived with our family for a year. Went to Turkey to visit another
Turkish friend, went to Bulgaria and visited a family friend of Jack's
01:07:00and drove through Yugoslavia, went to Austria, Germany, shipped our
car home from Hamburg then went to London and were with this Liberian
friend. And then, and that was a good thing to do--to travel before we
went home I think. We got home and that would have been late summer I
guess, and one of the first things we did was go to Vermont to see my
sister who was in training to go to Afghanistan.
J. WILSON: With the Peace Corps.
A. WILSON: In Vermont with the Peace Corps, right. And then we went
back to Michigan because Jack wanted to finish his master's, I had
just barely started mine and I had gotten an assistantship somehow and
so I was able to finish my master's that year. And I think that was
probably good. What helped me was that I decided at that point that
I was going to do my master's in African studies although it wasn't
01:08:00really such a thing it was really in history. But I took, I think I
only took one course that wasn't--didn't have to do with Africa. I
took African geography from Harm DeBlij; I took African Anthropology,
several courses from Swartz. I took African History from Hooker, all
of whom were very, very good and then I did my master's thesis on the
image of Africa in American textbooks from the beginning to 1965. And
so I was really able to be learning more about Africa taking off from
what I had learned in Liberia and that was really, really nice. I
think we were-- One of the reactions that most people have when they
come back from a so called developing country is that we just have so
01:09:00much and that's crazy. You go to a store and why do we need 50 kinds
of cereal or whatever. And I think that's something that we felt too.
J. WILSON: What do you think the impact of your Peace Corps service was
on the country where you served or for the people?
A. WILSON: I think that the impact on the people was on individuals;
there's no question about that. The school where we taught has been,
I mean it's-- The war ended the school. So, but you think about the
students that you affected and as a teacher later then for the rest of
01:10:00my life I know that that's one of the real joys of being a teacher is
that you know--sometimes you don't know--but lots of times you do find
out what an impact you've had on students. So I think for those of us
who were teachers it was fairly easy to say that we had an impact on
some students.
J. WILSON: And what would you say the impact was on you?
A. WILSON: Well I think both my husband and I would say that it changed
our lives. I mean obviously I came back and did a master's in African
Studies. We've often talked about, "What would have happened if we
had gone to the Philippines?" And I don't know because for me Africa
became a real focus intellectually and academically. And so after we
had our two children and we went back, of course we also the fact that
01:11:00we went back with Peace Corps, we went to Sierra Leone. I actually
taught African history -- again I was very lucky -- at a teacher
training college in Bo and so continued to learn and keep up on African
history. And then got a chance to go to, when we went to Fiji and Jack
was Director there, why I got a chance to teach in a teacher training
college in Fiji again using some of my Africa knowledge and learning
more about the South Pacific.
J. WILSON: So you went back with the Peace Corps?
A. WILSON: Yeah, what happened was we came home in '64, my husband
finished his master's that summer of '65, we moved to Cleveland where
01:12:00he got a job. Our first child was born there. I actually, that summer
before our daughter was born, worked on a world history course and did
the Africa unit for that course for my old high school and then that
next year did some teaching of that. And that was a pretty good unit
actually. There are still things from that that are usable, that are
good. Then we went to Sierra Leone from '66 to '68, from '68-'69 we
were in Washington D. C.; that's when our second daughter was born.
In 1970 we went to Fiji and were there for two years. And one of
the things that happened because of my experience in Sierra Leone and
Fiji was that I really found I really liked teaching teachers. And
so when we ended up after a, well I guess not quite a year, almost
01:13:00a year in 1972 living in our family farm, then we-- When my husband
went to work for the Environmental Protection Agency in Columbus, why
I was at a loss what to do next, couldn't really-- I really didn't
think at that point that I could go on in African history; it was at a
time when African American studies was starting. There was really an
emphasis on African Americans in African history. I applied for a job
at Denison University to teach and it was clear that they didn't--that
01:14:00I didn't have, I didn't have what they needed in terms of they were
looking for somebody that was African American. And so I began to
think about other kinds of things I could do and I went down to Ohio
State off the street totally, found out that in order to teach-- I had
some strange idea I might teach elementary school and found out that
was crazy because I would have to do all kinds of other things, take
all kinds of course, and so I walked in, talked to somebody about doing
a doctorate in teacher education and that's what I ended up doing.
And then I finished that in 1975, again my dissertation was related
to how do you teach about Africa. And started at the University of
01:15:00Kentucky as an assistant professor, or as an instructor and then an
assistant professor in 1975-76 and have just retired from teaching for
29 years and teaching about Africa fairly regularly in methods class
and occasionally an actual course. And will be teaching history of
Africa, the first time the history department has actually offered
that next spring. So in terms of professionally that's--Africa--my
experience in Liberia started a career that had a lot of connections
with Africa. I took teachers to Nigeria on a Fulbright group projects
in 1980. I had a Fulbright--I was a Fulbright scholar in Ghana for
01:16:00six months in 1997 and have had Ghanaian doctoral students. And we've
hosted African students, we've hosted students from South Africa, from
other African countries--Tanzania and I've been now to--had a chance to
go to Zimbabwe and Tanzania and Kenya. So it obviously changed my life
and had a big impact on my career.
J. WILSON: What kind of impact do you think the Peace Corps had on your
family?
A. WILSON: Well because when we went back to Sierra Leone and then ended
up in Fiji we had two young children, it had an impact on them. Our
01:17:00daughter--older daughter--Miatta has an African name. It was a Gola
name which means second daughter and she was the first daughter but we
liked Miatta better than Siata which is first daughter. And when we
went to Sierra Leone we discovered it was also a Mende name, not only
a Gola name but a Mende name which means over there. And so she went
to Cameroon for a summer after she was in--when she was in graduate
school, and said that she could-- It was interesting to her because she
was with another student who had never been to Africa and she said, "I
know I was only three when I left Sierra Leone." Of course we had lots
of African students in our house over the years, but nevertheless she
said she somehow felt comfortable there and I think that's kind of neat
and interesting. And then of course both of them were with us when we
01:18:00were in Fiji and were sort of Peace Corps kids. I think they always
felt that was part of their growing up. So I-- And now they, I mean
Miatta goes to Guatemala every year with mission trips and Cheryl has-
-they've hosted international students. And Cheryl did her master's in
anthropology and did her internship in Sweden and so, you know, clearly
the fact that they had lived overseas and then we had continued to have
lots of international connections has had an impact on them.
J. WILSON: What about the family you came from?
A. WILSON: Well my sister went into the Peace Corps and she met her
husband there in Afghanistan. He was from Iowa originally and my
01:19:00brother's-- Two of my brothers came to visit us in Sierra Leone and we
sent them off in the Land Rover, took Kabala and they still talk about
that because we lived there for a while and we didn't think it was
such a big deal but obviously it was to them. And so it's interesting
to think about that is an African experience that my youngest brother
who now works for the World Bank and flies first class to Ethiopia
that I know that he at least was in a Jeep on a road to Kabala and so
he does know what some other things were like even though he wasn't a
Peace Corps volunteer. And I think it had a big impact on my parents
as well; my parents actually came to see us in both Sierra Leone and
01:20:00in Fiji. And they of course had had family members who had--my mother
particularly--who had traveled and so they-- That's why they thought it
was important for-- I give them the credit for starting me on traveling
when I went to France. So yes I think it had an impact on my extended,
my family as well. I should probably also say that I had a cousin who
went into the Peace Corps as a volunteer in Peru and met his wife there.
And another cousin in that family's son went to Guatemala and met his
wife there, and her step-sister is a good friend now and was in Peace
01:21:00Corps in Fiji. And so there's, there is a culture of international
kinds of things in our family that goes beyond, that is Peace Corps but
also goes beyond Peace Corps because my oldest younger brother lives
in Scotland now and has lived, and is actually a citizen of the United
Kingdom and has lived there since 1980. So that's international too.
J. WILSON: You've said a little something about your international
involvement since Peace Corps, but do you still look forward to
anything international?
A. WILSON: Oh absolutely. We have a time share in Aruba and I think
01:22:00that was tempting because it was international as opposed to being in
Florida or something like that. You have to have a passport to get
there. And we have gone there-- Well this will be our fourth year for
the first week, this time two weeks in January. We have plans to go
visit my brother and his wife in Scotland probably sometime next year,
maybe next fall. We just hosted the sister, the wife and her sister of
a South African student of mine last week for a week. And we're going
to see another South African student for whom we were host family. In
a couple of weeks in Washington D. C. and we're planning to go to South
Africa in early 2006 and they're just-- We've been to Jamaica, we've
01:23:00been to Cuba, and some other places in the Caribbean. And there are
lots of other places to go. I was talking to a colleague this morning
who was telling me about they've had a lot of applications for the trip
for teachers for China next summer and I'm jealous -- I would love to
go to China sometime. So absolutely we'll definitely be traveling.
J. WILSON: What do you think the impact of Peace Corps service has been
on the way you view the world?
A. WILSON: Well I think it has been very important. One of the ways
it has been important is that we were in Peace Corps in Liberia, well
and also in Sierra Leone actually, but particularly in Liberia during
the March on Washington, during the-- When the four little girls in
01:24:00Birmingham were murdered, and that had a big impact on us because we
saw how the rest of the world was seeing us. And I will never forget
Henrietta White whom I saw actually a couple of years ago saying after
the four little girls saying, "We've got to pray for those people,"
meaning those white people, those racist white people. And it impacted
us immediately actually when we moved to Cleveland because we didn't
01:25:00live on the west side. We decided to live in shaker communities on the
east side which was an integrated, planned, integrated neighborhood and
we got involved there. And I think if we had stayed in Shaker would
have stayed there because that was important to us. We had Liberians
visiting us and we wanted them to visit us in a place where there were
not just-- We wanted to live in a place and bring up our kids in a
place but also live in a place where there weren't just white people.
And our landlady who lived upstairs was African American. And so
it had an impact on our way of looking at the United States too. And
that's partly connected to Africa because I agree with Edward Said in
01:26:00Cultural and Imperialism and Chinua Achebe when he writes about the
impact that the, that Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness has had on us
as Americans and the way we look at Africa. I'm just-- It also has an
impact on us I think because we know so many people, not just Liberians
but other people from Africa, we can't be Afro pessimists; we have to
be Afro optimists. And beyond that in terms of the wider world, I'm a
member and my husband has been a member too of the board of the United
Nations Association and we believe in multilateral ways of looking at
01:27:00the world rather than just unilaterally and has a big influence on our
politics. I mean we worked for the McGovern Shriver campaign in 1972
when we campaign when we came back from Fiji, and we're working on the
Kerry Edwards campaign right now and that's because we believe that
there are-- There's not one way but there are better ways of the United
States playing a role in the world than the way we're playing it right
now under the Bush administration. So I'd be very political about that.
J. WILSON: What do you think the overall impact of Peace Corps has been
and what should the role be in the future?
A. WILSON: I think that the overall role of, the overall impact of
Peace Corps has been perhaps in some ways more on the third goal and
01:28:00on the Peace Corps volunteers themselves when they've come back and
on us. I think most of us when we're honest say we gained more than
we gave. On the other hand, it's always nice to hear about the impact
of Peace Corps volunteers on somebody like President Toledo of Peru
or the person who was the foreign minister of Thailand whom we heard
speak in August. I think that we know that there's been some personal
impact on people, on both people in the countries and on ourselves. In
terms of the role today I think that Peace Corps obviously still has
01:29:00an important role to play. It's very frustrating in today's world when
we're putting so much money into a war and the budget for Peace Corps
is absolutely flat although the President said he wanted to raise the
number of Peace Corps volunteers to 10,000. That can't happen when you
don't have the money to do that but I think Peace Corps has a-- still
has an important future and look forward to being around in 2011 to
celebrate its 50th anniversary.
J. WILSON: Before we wind up here is there anything else that you
thought of that you'd like to tell us about?
A. WILSON: Well I think I probably ought to mention two events that
happened while we were Peace Corps volunteers. One of them was JFK's
assassination and we learned that from-- We had a Jeep at that point
01:30:00and we learned that from a gas station attendant that was filling our
jeep with gas in Monrovia as we were going back to Suehn, he said "Our
president has been killed." We had a day of mourning at the school.
Jack made a speech that we still have about JFK, then we listened to
Voice of America for two days and that was a very important event. The
other was the Cuban missile crisis happened while we were gone and I
can remember that we seriously thought that if something happened we
might still be alive in Liberia but our families in the United States
might not be. And that was a really scary time because of course in
those days we didn't have any telephone or email or any kind of contact
except letters.
01:31:00
J. WILSON: Okay, thank you for your time.
[End of interview.]