00:00:00SMITH: Okay this is Kim Lady Smith and, let's see here, get this level
right. And today is July 30, 2008 conducting a second interview with
Sandy Hatfield at Three Chimneys Farm for the University of Kentucky's
project on the horse industry. Okay Sandy, as I told you I listened to
our first interview just this morning again and um, so I wanted to, to
go back to a couple of things that we talked about the last time we--
HATFIELD: --okay--
SMITH: --got together and one of the things was about the sales. I know
when you first came here in 1980-81--
HATFIELD: --um-hm--
SMITH: --you were at Spendthrift--
HATFIELD: --um-hm--
SMITH: --in the summer and those were the days of the, the big July--
HATFIELD: --uh oh--
SMITH: --sales.
HATFIELD: Yeah it was, I mean it was, it was a event um, you know,
everybody dressed up to come out, it was all in the evening, it was,
you know, it was like a big gala and uh, you know, a couple of years
later the prices got a little crazy, that was the year, guess it was
00:01:00'82 that the uh, that the horse sold for so much money, the ten million
dollar horse that they didn't have the number--
SMITH: --right, right--
HATFIELD: --didn't have enough numbers on the tote board and uh, but it
was, it was an event and that just kinda--I think July's pretty early
for a young horse too, you know, it makes more sense really to sell a
yearling in September.
SMITH: Oh, okay. Now a lot of these events, these ac-, parties and
things they were happening in the evening at farms versus being at the
Keeneland sales.
HATFIELD: Well the sale was at night--
SMITH: --oh okay--
HATFIELD: --was at 7:00 at night.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: Yeah. It wasn't a day sale like the September sale is. So
it's, it was like Saratoga is now.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: Saratoga sells in the evening and it's, it was the same thing.
The sale didn't start--you showed horses all day and then you took
a couple hour break and then they came back and the sale started at
7:00.at night.
SMITH: Oh, those are long days.
HATFIELD: Yeah, --(laughs)--that was long, yeah, if you were working it
was a long day, you were, if you were, 'cause you were getting there,
00:02:00you know, 4:30-5:00 in the morning, bathing horses, cleaning stalls,
getting horses groomed, and then you'd start showing horses between
8, about 8:00 in the morning and then show horses all day, you usually
stopped about 5:00 and then uh.
SMITH: Now during the sales were you working them--
HATFIELD: --um-hm--
SMITH: --at that--
HATFIELD: --yeah--
SMITH: --even the first year?
HATFIELD: Yeah, I worked 1980, I worked at Spendthrift and uh, that was
my first introduction to Thoroughbreds really at all other than seeing
them on TV. But I did work the sale, went out and I, I didn't show
horses at that time, that was my first year. So I was a groom and,
you know, topped horses off and then the showman took 'em--and most all
of them were showmen, most all of them were men that showed the horses
and they actually, John Williams brought guys in from Maryland, from up
east, from where John was and, that showed horses.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: And uh, they would show the horses and we would, as we brought
them out of the stall we would pick their feet and make sure that they
were, manes and tails were brushed out, they didn't have straw on 'em
and then they would, these guys that the, during the sale would take
00:03:00the horse up to the show ring and hand him over to the person that
shows 'em in the sale ring.
SMITH: Right.
HATFIELD: And I remember I was so thrilled because we were really very
busy and Spendthrift at that time was right at the edge of the sale
where you walk up
SMITH: Oh, okay.
HATFIELD: They were, we were right there, our barn was and the guy was
busy and I'm sure, you know, he just needed to get back to the barn,
but he let me lead, I took care of a colt and he let me lead my colt
back to the barn by myself and I was just so excited that I got to
do that and I remember, I try to remember those things as I've gotten
older and become a boss, how exciting those little things were that
people let you do, um.
--[buzzing sound]--
SMITH: You need to check it?
HATFIELD: No, I just, you need to move that, it's making a buzz. Um, so
I try to remember that, yeah, sometimes it's not exciting to us 'cause
we've been through it so many times, but, you know, it is exciting
even, it's like in the breeding shed for somebody to take a stallion
and to get, and to breed the mare for the first time, you know, it's a
lot of adrenaline, I mean, it's really very exciting and those are the
things that catch people and get them into the industry too, I think.
00:04:00
SMITH: That's true, I could imagine that.
HATFIELD: So, and then I came back the next year and here I am. --
(laughs)--
SMITH: That's okay. Now you've worked with yearlings a lot in your
career so you've been to a lot of sales now, they've changed quite a
bit--
HATFIELD: --um-hm--
SMITH: --over the years. How would you describe the difference between
the hay days of the '80s and today?
HATFIELD: Um, well I think it got crazy, it got out of hand in the 80's
and I think we see a little bit of that um, recently with the, you
know, seventeen million dollar colt that never started and --(coughs)-
-and certainly its been those core people that paid that kind of prices,
the, you know, the Ashford's and the Maktoums. But they really propped
up a lot of people in the '80's when the market fell out, you know,
they were still here, they were still buying horses, they still had
money and people sometimes, I think, badmouthed those guys, but if they
think about it they're the ones that kept the business going, if it
hadn't been for the Maktoums and Coolmore, yeah, there would have been
00:05:00a lot of people out of work 'cause people--there wouldn't have been a
market for those horses, you know, and they say bad things about people
coming in and buying land here, but, I mean, how many jobs did, does,
the, do the Maktoums support here or Coolmore, you know, the taxes they
pay on their land--
SMITH: --and they're pretty good jobs, I mean they--
HATFIELD: --oh, they're wonderful jobs--
SMITH: --they pay well--
HATFIELD: --they're wonderful jobs, but people worry about, you know,
the lands going to, you know, it's not owned by an American and it's
owned by a foreign investor so. But they do, they do a lot of things
and they continue to do a lot of things for the industry.
SMITH: Um-hm, um-hm.
HATFIELD: They contribute a lot of money to things that people don't
know they contribute to too. A lot of charities, a lot of, you know, a
lot of endowments that they give to universities and --
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --um, that, are anonymous--
SMITH: --they invest in the community--
HATFIELD: --yeah, that are anonymous donations, they don't make a big
deal out of it. Of course, their pocket change is a little different
than our pocket change. --(both laugh)--
SMITH: Yeah, a little beyond my--
HATFIELD: --yeah--
SMITH: --ability to comprehend.
HATFIELD: Yes it is, definitely, yeah it's hard to comprehend those
00:06:00things.
SMITH: Yeah, that they could pay that much for a horse.
HATFIELD: And then they, it still--I've been doing this a long time and
it still amazes me that people pay so much money for a horse that's
never had a saddle on its back.
SMITH: Yeah.
HATFIELD: Never been ridden, nev-, I mean, it's just amazing that people
pay that, I mean, they're pay-, you know, obviously a lot of its paying
for bloodlines and potential, but--
SMITH: --right--
HATFIELD: --but, but still it's crazy to me but hey that's.
SMITH: I think I read somewhere um, Sheikh Maktoum was saying that uh,
getting a Native--was it Native Dancer, no wait a minute, Northern
Dancer--
HATFIELD: --Northern Dancer--
SMITH: --um, was like collecting art.
HATFIELD: Exact-, yeah, that's--yeah, sure, sure, yeah, yeah. --
(laughs)--
SMITH: If you look at it that way.
HATFIELD: Yeah, I wouldn't pay that much for a Picasso either --(both
laugh)--, but somebody does.
SMITH: Well, now today, we were just talking before we started the, the
tape the Fasig-Tipton sale, the numbers were still high, at the high
end,--
HATFIELD: --um-hm--
SMITH: --do you see these same people still helping maintain the
00:07:00industry.
HATFIELD: Oh, I think so, I think so, most definitely. Not so much
maybe at the Fasig-Tipton sale here but you'll see 'em in Saratoga
and you'll see 'em definitely in the first two, two days for sure and
then they will leave but um, you know, John Ferguson will stay and
they'll have their people here that are buying horses for 'em so they
definitely are still one of the top, you know, buyers if not the top
buyer in the yearling sales.
SMITH: Okay, so even though the uh, economic outlook is kinda iffy
they're still there.
HATFIELD: They are still there yeah, yeah.
SMITH: All right, okay. Um, another thing that, that we talked about
in our last interview and, and has come up in several interviews I've-
-including Mack Miller when I first, my very first interview almost two
years ago--uh, the problems with the sales when it comes to ethical
behavior. Um, I don't know how illegal the activities actually were,
but getting commissions on selling horses and buying horses, was a
00:08:00little bit off. Now it seemed to be more prominent in the '70's and
'80's than today is that?
HATFIELD: I think so, I mean, when I was at, at Calumet, you know, they
went, when a lot of that became public record um--
SMITH: --right--
HATFIELD: --the things that were being done, one of the things that they
really-- [buzzer rings]--
SMITH: I'll stop.
[Pause in recording.]
HATFIELD: I forgot what I was saying.
SMITH: I'll get you back, I took notes, lets see we're recording again,
yes. Oh, we were talking about the sales and uh, the problems with uh,
some of the ethical issues.
HATFIELD: Oh, right, anyway one of the things that they really slammed
um, Calumet for was that J.T. was getting a commission from buying
a horse and selling the same horse, I mean, he'd get commissions both
ways, he'd get commission from the seller and a commission from the
buyer which is basically unethical, whether it is unlawful or not--
SMITH: --right--
HATFIELD: --I don't know. You know, and certainly there were some
00:09:00issues with steroids and that kind of thing um, with the horses. And I
think people are less likely to do that now um, you know, there's a lot
of, a lot of surgeries on the horses to correct a, you know, an issue
but almost all those are, are declared now--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --you know, the, the x-rays are there, they didn't have a, a
repository where you had all the x-rays, each person would have to pay
for having their horse x-rayed if they were interested so. I mean the
Maktoum's if they were interested in twenty horses they'd have to have
twenty sets of x-rays taken
SMITH: Oh, okay.
HATFIELD: There wasn't a repository where you could go and have your
veterinarian look at those, those x-rays. Um, obviously when scoping
became a big thing, you know, you have to do that and. But it's, I
think it's changed a lot, I think people are, people got to the point
where they wouldn't buy horses from people because they knew when they
took the horse home, you know, in two days it wasn't gonna be the same
horse they bought--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --you know, their ankles were blowing up, or their knees were
blowing up or--
SMITH: --so certain people would get a reputation.
HATFIELD: Yeah, yeah, so, and people that, like Mr. Clay that didn't
00:10:00have that reputation that was always very straight forward and, and,
you know, he was very honest, I think that's why he's gone on and done
so well.
SMITH: Um-hm. Trust matters.
HATFIELD: Yeah, I think it does and I think the, you know, maybe the
older you get the, the more it matters. And people know, you know,
that what Mr. Clay tells them is the truth or what people they hear
at the sale from the people are true. Mr., Robert has always said that
anybody can walk into any barn and ask any groom any question--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --because it doesn't matter, you don't have to, you don't have
to worry about it cause you're, you're telling the truth.
SMITH: Um-hm. I'm gonna follow that, that line of. of thinking for a
few minutes--Mr. Clay does have a very strong reputation for integrity.
I was reading an article the other day that they referred to him as
the Felix Unger --(both laugh)--of the horse industry. Um, what is it,
what makes that stand out so much in this industry, why is that?
00:11:00
HATFIELD: You, you know, I just, I mean people don't always do things
that are underhanded or illegal, but when, when their bottom line is
the most important thing to them you're, you're libel to do things
that aren't, that you shouldn't do and even though certainly, you know,
meeting the bottom line and making a profit is important to us--this
is where Mr. Clay makes his living and my, me too. Um, you know, I
think honesty is more important to him and being ethical and we are in
meetings all the time and, and, he talks about that--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --that, you know, it's, it's much more important to be honest
and forthright than to make an extra buck or a quick buck because what
goes around comes around, you know, that's what my dad always told me--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --you know, no matter whether you see it or not if somebody
does something that's not right it'll come back to 'em--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --and I think it's very true.
SMITH: Well it's a philosophy that seems to have worked well for Three,
Three Chimneys.
HATFIELD: Oh, I think it has, I think it has and I, you know, we have a
00:12:00lot of places in this town and, and definitely Mr. Clay is, is one of
the places that I'd always wanted to work.
SMITH: Yeah, I think in the last interview you said that Three Chimneys
was the only other farm you'd have left Gainsborough for
HATFIELD: Yep. Yes.
SMITH: And that's why?
HATFIELD: I think that's one, the main reasons why, I mean, I, it's
a great place to work, they're great people, Dan is a great person,
Robert's a great person, you know, I've heard nothing but good things
about them and there's a lot of places that you can work, not because
they're not, you know, unethical or dishonest, but there's also people
that you have to work with everyday that might not be the kind of
people that you want to work for or you, you know you have a different,
different philosophies or different personalities.
SMITH: Um-hm.
HATFIELD: Um, but I knew Dan and I knew Robert and I knew Robert's wife,
she and I are on the board of Big Brothers and Big Sisters together at
that time and I, I knew that they were good people.
SMITH: Now how did you meet Dan? -------------(??)
HATFIELD: I, you, you know everybody in the industry, I mean, you
00:13:00certainly knew who he was because of Three Chimneys. And he and I
really made the biggest connection when I went to work for W. T. Young
at Overbrook and--when it was W. T. Young Farm--and when the manager
left and Melvin Cinnamon came to Overbrook, I was the first woman
that had ever worked for Melvin and Dan was, had worked for Melvin at
Calumet. So it was, we kinda became closer friends at that time just
cause we had that in common and he realized how, how interesting it was
that Melvin finally had a woman that was working for him --(laughs)--.
SMITH: Yeah I think you told me that uh, Melvin had told Dan not to
hire women.
HATFIELD: Yeah, exactly
SMITH: And, and, now what again was his reasoning?
HATFIELD: You know, women aren't supposed to work with horses. Women
aren't, you know, women will just cause trouble and, you know, women
are always, you know, looking for one thing and, I mean, Melvin had a
different, different view of it, and uh, it was, I mean, I, I probably
said that the first time we talked, I mean, one of the greatest
00:14:00compliments to me as a horse person was when Melvin left Overbrook Farm
he told me when he found a, a, you know, a place that he was gonna be
that he wanted me to come work for him and for, to have Melvin Cinnamon
say that to a woman was, was, you know, I thought quite impressive--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --and really is something that I'm very proud of.
SMITH: Um-hm. You know, I have heard that from people who have worked
with women over the years they have--they might have been uh, hesitant
at first, but are not so much now.
HATFIELD: Right.
SMITH: They, they appreciate their hard work.
HATFIELD: Right. Yes, yeah, I mean the work ethic is, is very important
and I think a lot of women have--well, a lot of men do too--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --but I think women have a connection with horses.
SMITH: Now I have uh, heard that from a num-, a number of people, why do
you think that is?
HATFIELD: I don't know, you know, whether it's the motherly instinct or
whether it's the second, you know, sense that women have about things.
Um, women don't have to be macho, they don't have to prove themselves
00:15:00in that way. You know, a lot of people are, you know they're big
animals and you gotta, you know, man handle 'em and really, I mean,
it's much more about finesse handling a horse than it is about brute
strength.
SMITH: Um-hm.
HATFIELD: And women are very dedicated and very loving, you know, with
foals or yearlings and--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --um, you know, it's just a personal opinion but, you know,
you can look now, you know, there's a lot of women that work with
horses and you look at the incoming vet students--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --you know, the majority of them are women.
SMITH: Right, right.
HATFIELD: So
SMITH: Well, now I'll put this back on you, when I was here last time
um, there was a young woman that came in and you told me that she was
the first female you had hired to work in the stallion barn--
HATFIELD: --um-hm--
SMITH: --now what took so long?
HATFIELD: Well I'd worked with other females, I mean, there were people
that were hired at, at Gainsborough um, girl by the name of Heather and
a girl by the name of Lisa that helped me in the stallion barn, but I
didn't hire them they were already there. You know it's, it is very
00:16:00difficult to find a girl that wants to work with stallions, there're
not very many of 'em because it is a, a dangerous profession um, and
a lot of women that want to work with stallions want to baby 'em too
much. They want to feed 'em treats, they want to goo-goo on 'em, they
want to kiss 'em on the nose and I do, I kiss all mine on, I mean,
you know, there's a little bit of that, but a little bit of that goes
a long way with a stallion. Pretty soon they're mouthy, if you don't
have a carrot or a peppermint and they're trying to bite your fingers
off and--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --so it is hard, and it's hard for a lot of guys to work
with women I think, in the, in the stallion barn I think. You're in a
very sexually charged atmosphere and that was one of the things I told
Veronica is that, you know, you will be hearing a lot of things that
are a little off color not that you need to, you know, take a lot of
grief but, you know, you're in a very sexually charged environment and
that's part of it--
SMITH: --hm-hm--
HATFIELD: --and uh, you know, a lot of women don't like that part of it--
00:17:00
SMITH: --hm-hm--
HATFIELD: --so.
SMITH: But in the last interview you indicated that the men seem to
have accepted defin-, seem to accept you pretty easily in the stallion
barn for.
HATFIELD: I think so. I think I've been doing it long enough now that
most the men that I work with in the stallion barn already know me,
know who I am, and know um, what I can do so I think it's easier and
it's also easier--well not easier, I mean, I think it was hard for
these guys to accept a woman as a boss 'cause that's just--
SMITH: --when you came to Three Chimneys?
HATFIELD: Um-hm. But it worked out fine, you know, um.
SMITH: Did anyone not want to work with you or?
HATFIELD: I mean there's certainly people that aren't here now that were
here when I started, whether that's the reason or not I don't know,
they certainly wouldn't, didn't say that to me but --(laughs)--you
know, and that happens anywhere you go.
SMITH: Right.
HATFIELD: There's attrition, you know. Things are done differently and,
you know, I'm very detail oriented, not a very, not a micro-manager but
00:18:00I do want things done a certain way and I want the barn to look good, I
want the horses to always look good, want the people to look good, and
I think what we, what we do down there we're on show all of us, all the
horses, all the people, all the time--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --so it's very important that we present that uh, face to
the public.
SMITH: Um-hm. All right, well, let's take you to when you uh, came to
Three Chimneys; you said it was in 2000?
HATFIELD: Um-hm. January of 2000.
SMITH: Now who was the stallion manager before you?
HATFIELD: Wes Lanter.
SMITH: Okay. Now why did he leave?
HATFIELD: He is um, he's gotten a job at Overbrook.
SMITH: Okay
HATFIELD: He's the stallion manager at Overbrook.
SMITH: Okay. So had he left by the time you came?
HATFIELD: He had, um, Dan Rosenberg called me up and said he was looking
for someone and did I know someone and I said--(Smith laughs)--I said,
"How about me?" and he said, "Well I don't think we can afford you."
00:19:00And I said, "Well, let's talk about it." So, there were some, certainly
concessions I made to come here. But being at Gainsborough for as long
as I was they were getting less and less stallions, they really weren't
interested in the stallion market, I don't think. Um, they made a big
commitment when they bought Hansel.
SMITH: Um-hm.
HATFIELD: Everybody else had been a, a homebred.
SMITH: Um-um.
HATFIELD: They bought Hansel they paid a lot of money for him and he was
a flop as a stallion um, and--
SMITH: --infertile?
HATFIELD: No, no he just was not a good sire--
SMITH: --okay--
HATFIELD: --he just, his babies just didn't, you know, and it's a hard
market there's a lot of stallions out there and very few of them make
that top, you know, there's only ten that are top ten sire's--
SMITH: --right--
HATFIELD: --out of, you know, four hundred we have standing in this
area. That's not, you know, counting all the others that stand all
over the United States, but they made a significant investment, they
were gonna really get into the stallion market and when that happened
they lost interest very quickly--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --in that part of it. So we stood stallions for other people
00:20:00but for--well not for other people, but for Sheikh Hamdan and Sheikh
Mohammad. And I knew that if I was gonna be a stallion manager I
needed to go some place that was in the stallion market, you know.
SMITH: Right.
HATFIELD: Yeah.
SMITH: Now uh, how many stallions did they have at Three Chimneys at
that time?
HATFIELD: At Three Chimneys? The first year I was here they had ten or
twelve and we were full. In 2002, we had fourteen.
SMITH: Oh. So by that time Three Chimneys had a pretty good reputation.
HATFIELD: Oh yeah. I mean, Seattle Slew had been here, you know, Slew of
Gold was here, Capote, I mean they had a great reputation for stallions
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: So.
SMITH: So you saw it as a challenge?
HATFIELD: I, cha-, I don't know if it was a challenge it was a--I left
Gainsborough to do more. Um, I loved my job at Gainsborough, I loved
the people, I loved knowing all the horses and, you know, getting to do
00:21:00uh, a little bit of everything but, you know, we had three stallions--
SMITH: --oh--
HATFIELD: --you know, four stallions and, and, you know, they, some
of 'em weren't breeding very many mares and so it was a, you know, I
wanted to do more, I was very bored--
SMITH: --okay--
HATFIELD: --over there.
SMITH: All right, so what was it like when you came here--your, your
first few weeks, what was it like?
HATFIELD: Oh, well, you know, we were getting, it was getting ready to
get started. Um, Silver Charm had just come, getting him ready for the
breeding shed, he hadn't--
SMITH: --what time of year did you come?
HATFIELD: January
SMITH: Okay, oh.
HATFIELD: January 1st. Um. So getting him ready, he hadn't covered
a mare yet they'd been working with him and hadn't got him to cover
a mare yet so that was a, a interesting proposition. He wasn't the
easiest horse to breed. But just getting everything organized, getting
the people organized, you know, you always had to kind of wait it out
and see how everybody works together and then try to implement some
00:22:00change without ruffling too many feathers.
SMITH: Was there anything you wanted to change immediately or were there
just, anything major?
HATFIELD: No, not that I remember, I mean, you know, other than doing
some cleaning. --(both laugh)--Reorganizing things and, and making
sure, I mean, one of the things I, you know, water buckets have to be
cleaned every day, you know, the waters outside need to be cleaned,
when your horse is turned out he doesn't go out with straw or, on him,
you know, people, you never know when somebody's gonna come and look at
a horse out-, outside and you can explain mud, they just rolled in the
mud, but if there's straw in their mane and tail that's just because
you were too lazy to get it out. It's different if it's a broodmare,
you know, and your, and you've got one person turning out twenty mares
or, you know
SMITH: Right.
HATFIELD: You got one guy to three or four horses, you know, they can
take another five minutes and get the straw out of his, you know, mane,
make sure his feet are picked.
SMITH: So about how many people actually worked for you in the stallion
00:23:00barn at that time?
HATFIELD: Uh, right now there's seven. I'd say there were probably
close to that, maybe a few less.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: Um, but it worked out all right. I mean, you know, it's like
I said we had some people that left, that moved on and hired some great
people. Shane was here he worked for Wes and uh, he stayed and Tom
Wade stayed and Carlos stayed until Seattle Slew left um, but there's
always attrition when you go to a new, new position.
SMITH: Oh well, just from what you've told me about the many jobs you've
had in the industry it seems that people move around.
HATFIELD: Yeah, yeah and I think at the, at the lower level, grooms
level it's much easier to move around. Um, I mean, you can find people
that have probably worked at, you know, ten, fifteen farms.
SMITH: Um-hm.
HATFIELD: You know, it's like, you know, I moved around between
Spendthrift, Gainesway, Crescent, Overbrook in a short period of time--
00:24:00
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --and then when you went to North Ridge, you know, I was there
for six years, I was at Gainsborough for eight and that's really--
there's very few people like Dan Rosenberg that spends, you know--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --twenty or thirty years at a place.
SMITH: Um-hm. So, um, you'd mentioned Silver Charm--
HATFIELD: --um-hm--
SMITH: --had just come here--
HATFIELD: --um-hm--
SMITH: --and having some problems, what were some of the challenges you
have with stallions. I'm not, when we talked the last time we talked
about the danger associated with the mares, but what are some of the
issues--and we talked about Seattle Slew and, and uh, his sons having
uh, libido problems--
HATFIELD: --um-hm--
SMITH: --but, uh --(both laugh)--other than libido problems what--
HATFIELD: You know that, libido problem is probably your biggest problem
you're gonna have. It's, it's something you just have to work through,
it is very heritable uh, when I first got here I went to Dan and asked
him if I could use Capote as a teaser. And he said you know you can
as long as it's safe. And we did, we started taking horses outside to
00:25:00tease mares as they were coming in.
SMITH: Um-hm.
HATFIELD: I think libido's your biggest issue.
SMITH: So if I understand this right Capote wouldn't get excited.
HATFIELD: Right.
SMITH: But the mares, you'd find out if the mares were in heat.
HATFIELD: Right. Well, you could take him over there, he saw, he saw
ten mares before his mare was ever, before he ever presented to his
mare to be bred
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: So you're getting, you're getting him thinking about it--
SMITH: --yeah--
HATFIELD: --you're getting his blood pumping. That's the same thing
John Williams did with Seattle Slew when he first started riding him.
It was just to get him, get his blood flowing get him, you know, get
him warmed up--
SMITH: --oh--
HATFIELD: --get him, get him going .
SMITH: So explain that, is that when they were at Spendthrift?
HATFIELD: Um-hm, um-hm.
SMITH: Okay so that was--now I understand you all ride some of the
stallions and that wasn't done very much so why did he ride?
HATFIELD: Just to get him, get him in better shape to get his blood
flowing, to get his adrenalin pumping and just, you know, to try to get
him, get him ready. I mean, obviously if you're in better shape you're
more interested in sexual activity and the same things with uh, true
00:26:00with some horses. I mean, if they're overweight it hurts their back to
breed mares, it hurts their hocks, you know, to rear up and, and breed
a mare so the better condition you can have your horse in, the better
it is for him physically and mentally.
SMITH: Now how much of it was a challenge, would that have been a
challenge say for Seattle Slew who had a very, probably a very large
booking?
HATFIELD: He did and he got better as he got older, his libido was
pretty good by the time I got here--
SMITH: --okay--
HATFIELD: --he really wasn't very much of an issue. I mean, his son Slew
O' Gold, Capote, I worked with Seattle Song over at North Ridge, he had
a poor libido too and there's a couple of Seattle Slews sons in town
that have poor libido. It's just something you learn to work around.
SMITH: Oh, so what was Silver Charms issue?
HATFIELD: You know, I think um, I wasn't here when they first started
working with him so I don't know what happened, but I think the longer,
for the most part the longer that the horse is on a track--
00:27:00
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --sometimes the harder it is to let them realize that it's
not a bad thing to get, to show that sexual aggression because they've
been, so long, been told no. When they're yearlings and they're at the
show you don't want a horse to drop down and show, you know, show his
sexual prowess as you're trying to show him.
SMITH: Right.
HATFIELD: You know, so people use water buckets, water, they spray their
penis with water, they walk 'em around or some people even flip 'em
with rags that, you know, as they--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --and they learn that when they drop down and starts getting--
SMITH: --yeah--
HATFIELD: --you know, sexually ready that somebody's gonna come over
and, and pop their penis with a rag, well that doesn't make them very
interested in doing that.
SMITH: Right.
HATFIELD: So I think the longer that a horse is, is away from that,
being told no-no-no-no-no, to bring him in and say it's okay.
SMITH: Yeah.
HATFIELD: And I think you have to be very patient and very quiet and
there's things that you let him do in the very beginning that you might
00:28:00not let him do later. I mean, there's certain things he can not do, he
can't charge, he can't bite, he can't strike at people, but if he wants
to, if he is scared, he gets up on the mare sideways--
SMITH: --oh--
HATFIELD: --we'll straighten that out later. He gets up without an
erection, you know, I certainly don't want him to do that in his second
year, but the first time you're in there he's, he's still frightened.
He knows he's supposed to do something, but he doesn't know what it is.
SMITH: Um-hm.
HATFIELD: So if they don't have an erection, but they still want to
mount the mare at that point that's okay, he's, at least he's getting
on the mare.
SMITH: Um-hm.
HATFIELD: Now let's maybe wait and get a little bit, you know, so it's
a very step process and it's very--Dan Rosenberg always said you can't
push a rope--
SMITH: --yeah--
HATFIELD: --and it's very true. You have to wait till they're ready or
you're wasting your time.
SMITH: So how does that um, patience fit in with an owners desire to get
this horse breeding quickly?
HATFIELD: But in the, in January you're not worried about it.
00:29:00
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: You're not gonna breed till February.
SMITH: So you're just getting 'em ready.
HATFIELD: You're just getting 'em ready. I mean it's the same thing,
you know, Mr. & Mrs. Chapman when we got Smarty Jones. I, I called
the Chapmans the day that we bred Smarty the first time that he covered
a--it was a test mare, you know, that's what we have, we have mares
that we've actually taken their ovaries out that we can bring into heat
and they're older mares so we can teach the young horses on. These
aren't thor-, these usually aren't Thoroughbred mares, they're not
mares that are gonna get pregnant, it's not mares that we're, we're in
a hurry to get bred. Um, they're mares that we've taken their ovaries
out bring them in chemically--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --they're quiet, you know, if he gets on her sideways, they're
not gonna care. So I called the Chapman's to tell them that he'd, you
know, covered the test mare and, and Mr. Chapman said, "Oh", he said,
"I just don't understand." He said, "That is the silliest thing I've
ever heard. You had to show him how to do that, doesn't he just know?"
He said, "I think that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard of." And
I said, "Well Chappy, I won't ask you about your first time if you
00:30:00don't ask me about mine." And he, "Oh, oh here, here's Pat, okay, I
understand now," you know.--(both laugh)--So, you know, we all learn,
we're not all, you know.
SMITH: Absolutely, Absolutely.
HATFIELD: We all weren't great lovers the first time.
SMITH: Yeah.
HATFIELD: So it is just a, it's a, just a--and some of 'em get it right
away, some of 'em are in there for, for fifteen minutes.
SMITH: Um-hm. Now have you had any um, stallions under your care that
have just not been able to breed?
HATFIELD: No.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: Um. War Emblem was here, he quarantined here to go to Japan,
but I didn't have anything to do with his problem. Um, so I was not
around that, you know, part of his career, but um, really most of the
stallions I've been around, like I said other than libido, I've had
horses with injuries, Saratoga Six came off the race track he had a,
a fractured sesamoid in a front leg and he had uh--I don't know if you
00:31:00saw Barbaro's leg with a plate and all the screws.
SMITH: Um-hm.
HATFIELD: Saratoga Six had one of those in his front leg so his, his
pastern was fused and we, you know, it was very scary at first for him
to get up and down--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --on the mares, we hobbled all the mares, so I've dealt with
horses that have had some physical limitations. Seattle Slew, you
know, when he had his neck problem. And older stallions, you know,
they get, their backs start bothering 'em and you do things like, you
know, bury the mares, you can bury their hind feet, get 'em down lower
where he doesn't have to rear up so high.
SMITH: Okay, okay. Now what about the mares, now I know that as you're
working with stallions, so you're not responsible for the mares, but do
you get mares with particular problems?
HATFIELD: Um, sure--
SMITH: --that cause a problem for you in the breeding shed?
HATFIELD: --sure, I mean, you get mares too with they're fresh off the
racetrack that have a, A bad leg.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: Or mares that are uh, or maiden mares that have never been
bred before that don't, that are scared, mares that uh, don't show to
00:32:00the teaser, mares that have torn cervixes, mares that have urethral
extensions, mares that have--so there's things and as long as we know
those things when they bring 'em to us--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --it makes my job a whole lot easier to know that. .
SMITH: So how involved are the vets in the breeding operation?
HATFIELD: In my part?
SMITH: Um-hm.
HATFIELD: Very limited.
SMITH: Okay. So by the time they get to you?
HATFIELD: By the time they get to me uh, the mares hopefully have
been checked, they're ready to be bred. I mean, that's their
responsibility--and the, and the mare owner wants them only here once
too. They don't want to take them away from their baby, they don't
want to breed 'em anymore than they have to, they have to pay the van
to take 'em here they have to pay the vet, you know, again to palp her,
they have to, you know, it's always a danger to put a mare on a truck
and travel her to another farm. Um, and it's always, you're always
risking injury, illness--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --you know, the more times you breed her the more likely she
00:33:00is to get dirty--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --so, you know, we, we think that the mare's ready. And
that's why we tease 'em, we make sure they're all in heat--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --when they come here. Um.
SMITH: Do most farms still do that?
HATFIELD: Tease mares?
SMITH: Um-hm.
HATFIELD: Oh, yeah.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: There are a few that don't, they don't have a--they're small
farms, they don't have a teaser, they're just going off what the vet
says. But most every farm will have a teaser that he--otherwise how do
you know whether your mares in heat?
SMITH: Right. Right.
HATFIELD: Otherwise you're checking every mare every day to see if she's
got a, you know--
SMITH: --right--
HATFIELD: --she's ready to be bred. So, I mean, you know, they take the
teaser to every mares stall and she starts showing estrous, that's when
they have the vet check her.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: Wouldn't be any reason to check a mare that's not in season so,
you know, the--most farms, 97% of 'em tease their mares every morning.
SMITH: Now the stallions, are they checked over by a vet on any kind of
regular basis or?
HATFIELD: We do um, I take morphologies from the stallion's semen once
00:34:00a week and Kathy looks at it here in the vet lab. So she's looking at
morphologically normal sperm um--out of a hundred how many of them are
normal, how many of them have droplets, how many of them have crooked
tails, how many of 'em have bent tails, how many of 'em are, don't have
tails at all, how many have bad acrosomes, how many--so we're making
a, making a scale and um --(pause)--if you look right here she gives me
a chart.
SMITH: Oh, oh. Hmm.
HATFIELD: We do that once a week. We do cultures, stallion cultures
every two weeks.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: Um, we collect the stallions at the beginning of the year,
most of them--that was another interesting thing, we'd usually do the
older horses and any new horse we'd do a semen evaluation, we actually
use those test mares again and actually collect it in an artificial
vagina they, what they use in Quarter horse business or Paint horse
00:35:00business to collect the horse--
SMITH: --okay--
HATFIELD: --to, to freeze and ship the semen. You do that same procedure
and then we do analysis on the, on the sperm. How much volume, how
many sperm per cc, how many--so you're doing that whole evaluation.
SMITH: So you're really keeping up with just how fertile they are.
HATFIELD: Um-hm.
SMITH: Hmm, hmm. At what age generally do the horses start being less,
the stallions?
HATFIELD: Less fertile?
SMITH: Um-hm.
HATFIELD: At, usually in the twe-, in their twenties you see a drop
off, in their early twenties. Some horses, I mean Seattle Slew was
an exemption, you know, he was saddling mares at twenty-seven. Mr.
Prospecter or Danzig, some of those horses even Storm Cat until this
past year was, was really good. Excuse me--but you can definitely see
a down turn as they, as they age into their, usually in their early
twenties.
SMITH: Okay, okay. Hmm. Well um, lets talk about Seattle Slew, now, so
00:36:00he was, he was the, he was the champion here when you came. Who else
was here when you came? Seattle Slew, Capote?
HATFIELD: Um, he was here, Capote, Wild Again, Miesque's Son, Joyeux
Danseur, Slew o' Gold, Silver Charm, Atticus.
SMITH: Did you have Dynaformer?
HATFIELD: Dynaformer, Rahy
SMITH: Okay. That's a big roster.
HATFIELD: I think we had, I think we had twelve stallions the first year
I was here.
SMITH: Now was Seattle Slew still the highest priced at that point.
HATFIELD: Um-hm, um-hm.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: He was.
SMITH: What was he going for then? Do you know?
HATFIELD: You know, I think that first year um, I want to say 150-175-
200, um, it got more later on, probably the last year he bred simply
because the limited, the book was so limited.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: But I hadn't been here, I don't know, maybe two or three weeks
when the rider brought Seattle Slew up and said he's not traveling well
and uh, that's when we noticed that his equilibrium was off and uh--
00:37:00
SMITH: --so he was still being ridden--
HATFIELD: --um-hm--
SMITH: --exercised?
HATFIELD: Um-hm. And that's when we had the vets come in and check him
and ended up that he did have a compressed spinal cord.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: We bred him that first year before the surg-,--we didn't do
surgery that year um, but we did the surgery the end of that breeding
season, the first surgery.
SMITH: How complicated was it to breed him when he had the compressed?
HATFIELD: Um, their equilibrium's really off and he actually--they
injected the facets in his neck through the first year, they would
have um, Dr. Barry Grant come from California to inject the facets in
his neck um, to relieve some of the pressure uh--but he would actually
walk like a crab, he would walk at a, at a, almost in a U shape. Now
it was very interesting that he would walk that way and then he would
straighten up and then he would reverse and go the other way. So it
got to the point where, I don't know ---------(??)--I don't know if
you've seen a breeding session, but--
00:38:00
SMITH: --unh-uh--
HATFIELD: --there's five people that work in the breeding shed. There's
one that holds the mare, one that brings the stallion in, one that
uh, puts the mares left front leg up um, so she does-, can't kick, or
doesn't kick as hard during the breeding process, there's one person
on the off side um, of the mare holding her tail out of the way and
actually help make, supporting the stallion during the breeding process
and then there's a person that enters the stallion into the mare and
makes sure that he ejaculates and gets the dismount sample that we look
at. Um, it got to the point that he, he would go so far the other way
that you would actually have to enter him from the other side.
SMITH: Oh, okay.
HATFIELD: Um, which is very strange when you've been doing it for, you
know, ten years the other way --(both laugh)--but we made it through
and he, he really had a pretty good fertility that year uh, it was uh.
SMITH: Do you remember how many mares he was bred to?
HATFIELD: No, I don't, I can, you know, I can look it up--
SMITH: --yeah--
HATFIELD: --but I don't remember off hand. Um, it was still a very
00:39:00limited number
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: And then he had surgery after that.
SMITH: Now was the surgery done here?
HATFIELD: It was done at Rood & Riddle, although they did bring Barry
Grant down and Dr. Ran-, Norm Rantanen came and they brought their
whole crew actually from U. C. Davis down to do the surgery.
SMITH: Hmm.
HATFIELD: They did it at Rood & Riddle, but um, they did have their
team, they had the anesthesiologist from Ohio State come down.
SMITH: Now who would have, who was Slew's uh, vet normally?
HATFIELD: Dr. Morehead.
SMITH: Here--
HATFIELD: --um-hm--
SMITH: --okay.
HATFIELD: But Dr. Morehead's not a surgeon.
SMITH: Okay, okay, okay. Um, so how, how did the surgery go?
HATFIELD: It, it went, it went well um, they put two what they call
baskets in um, in their neck, it stabilizes their neck and they
actually use bone marrow from their hip to fill that basket and then
that um, goes, calcifies around that place so it, it's like this around
their spinal cord.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: So it, it keeps the, the, that part stable. And uh, he had
00:40:00that basket put in and then two years later he had another basket put
in.
SMITH: Okay, so the first one worked well but wasn't?
HATFIELD: It did and, and it certainly helped, um, he was never turned
out in a paddock again. Um, he was hand walked, Tom hand walked him
and grazed him, but was never um, turned in, loose in a paddock again.
SMITH: Why?
HATFIELD: Afraid of him hurting himself, you know, running stumbling,
his still, equilibrium still wasn't very good so.
SMITH: How did he react to all that.
HATFIELD: Uh, you know, I think he handled it pretty well uh, all things
considered, I think for the most part he knew that we were all trying
to help him and the second time we did surgery, or the first time we
actually got a sling and put him in the sling and hung the sling from
the rafters down in the barn so he could, could get used to being
lifted up and having that weight on him. That was one thing that we
really um, was important because most of the time when a horse hurts
00:41:00himself he wakes up and he's hanging in a sling and he doesn't know
what's happening or what it's about. I mean Ruffian was a perfect
example. Um, Alydar was another example when he broke his leg, I mean
he just was, he, you know, that's not, they're not meant to be hung
from the ceiling. --(both laugh)-- You know, Barbaro was the exception
that accepted it so well. Um, but we did that and we would go in
there, you know, two and three times a day and, you know, tighten it up
a little more and synch it up a little more so he could get used to it.
Was a, was a long process of trying to think of everything we could
think of um--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --so he'd be comfortable.
SMITH: Now was he still in the main stallion barn at that time?
HATFIELD: He was in the two stall barn.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: Yeah. We moved him out of the main stallion barn. The first
year he was in, stayed in the main stallion barn um, but then when we
were doing the surgery we moved him out of there to keep him away from
the public, you know, with the tours and everything and to keep him out
of that.
SMITH: Okay, so he was off-limits on the tours at that point?
HATFIELD: Um-hm, um-hm.
00:42:00
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: Yeah.
SMITH: Now was he a pretty, what kind, what was his temperament at that
time when you came here?
HATFIELD: He uh, --(laughs)--he, he's not a very loving horse um, he
had a nasty streak. Uh, he very much, he and Tom Wade were uh, bonded.
Tom Wade was basically the only person that took care of him a whole
lot uh, he knew Tom, Tom knew him. He could--
SMITH: --Had Tom been with him a long time?
HATFIELD: Tom, Tom had been with him since Spendthrift. He took care of
him at Spendthrift and when they brought the horse over here the story
is that they told Tom that if he got on that truck and left Spendthrift
that he didn't have a job and, you know, Robert Clay's message was well
you've got a job when you get off the van at the other end. So he, he
took care of Seattle Slew for twenty years.
SMITH: Hmm. That is a long time.
HATFIELD: Yes, it is a very long time.
00:43:00
SMITH: So he was good for Mr. Wade, Tom Wade?
HATFIELD: Yeah, for the most part, I mean he was still a jerk, I mean,
the horse was a jerk, but, you know, Tom knew him and he knew Tom and
it wasn't like they were, you know--
SMITH: --yeah--
HATFIELD: --best friends but they understood each other and--
SMITH: Hmm. Now did Tom work with any other horses?
HATFIELD: He did, he rubbed, when they were in the main barn he rubbed a
string of horses, he took care of Silver Charm and then when they moved
over there --(coughs)--he just took care of Slew.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: And at one point we moved Slew o' Gold in there to give um,
Seattle Slew company.
SMITH: Yeah, that's his, one of his son's or grand-?
HATFIELD: One of his sons, uh-huh--
SMITH: --okay--
HATFIELD: --sons, his first, out of his first crop.
SMITH: Okay and that was the first horse here wasn't it--
HATFIELD: --um-hm--
SMITH: --the first stallion?
HATFIELD: Yep, yep. Slew o' Gold's pretty easy going and nothing much
bothered him so it was, he was a quiet companion.
SMITH: That's probably a good thing.
HATFIELD: Yeah.
SMITH: So you got him through the first surgery and he was back in the
breeding barn the next year?
HATFIELD: The next year uh, he didn't cover mares, he covered mares the
next year.
SMITH: It, it was a year wait?
HATFIELD: Um-hm. A year recovery.
SMITH: Okay and how did that go?
00:44:00
HATFIELD: Um, okay. He was um, you know, he still had some problems he
still had some issues, he was still, his equilibrium was still bad , we
still had to uh, get the mares to stand still, we tranquilized all of
his mares um, to get them to stand still. Bred a, bred a very limited
book. I think he only bred twenty mares that year.
SMITH: Okay, did they all go into foal?
HATFIELD: No, but he was, his fertility was very good.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: His fertility was always very good, yeah. Um, Seattle Slew's
sons, fertility is not usually an issue it's usually a libido issue,
but he had, he had good fertility.
SMITH: Hmm. And what happened next with him?
HATFIELD: The next thing we did after that breeding season and I'm
not sure we even got all the way through that breeding season, um, he
started getting, having more and more problems and they went in and did
another surgery with another basket in a different place on his neck.
SMITH: So it was the same kind of surgery just a different--?
HATFIELD: Same kind of surgery just in a different place. And when they
do it they have to go through the front of his neck.
SMITH: Oh.
00:45:00
HATFIELD: Um, so it's a, it's a, it's a interesting, very interesting
surgery and very complicated and they say when you're dealing with
spinal cord it always is, but um.
SMITH: Now if they hadn't done that, was it a life threatening problem
or was it just a?
HATFIELD: I, I mean sooner or later sure, but, I mean, we had Capote
here who had the same sort of problem. Um, we did radiograph his neck,
he did have compress-, compressed spinal cord , we did what we call
miliogram.
SMITH: Um-hm.
HATFIELD: And his owners decided that, he was twenty, and they decided
uh, twenty-twenty one, they decided at that age that they weren't going
to put him through the surgery. And he was retired and, and we turned
him out and he, you know, he came up every day like all the rest of
the horses, but he didn't breed mares anymore and he lived another
four years.
SMITH: Okay, okay. But Seattle Slew, they wanted to keep breeding?
HATFIELD: Yeah, and, you know, the Taylors said that they thought that
it would help his quality of life.
SMITH: And how old was he at that point?
00:46:00
HATFIELD: Oh, in his--
SMITH: ------------(??)--
HATFIELD: --early twenties.
SMITH: Okay, okay.
HATFIELD: Yeah.
SMITH: All right. So the second surgery was he, did he breed after that?
HATFIELD: He uh, he left here after that. He went to Hill 'n' Dale
after that.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: That next year uh, during that, that year we had started
breeding horses and uh, they moved him on April the1st. Actually it
was really funny that Ray Paulick, who was the editor of the Blood
Horse, when it came out that we moved him, Ray Paulick called Margaret
and asked her if it was an April Fool's joke. Um, and he died May the
7th. He was at Hill 'n' Dale for thirty-seven days.
SMITH: Hmm. Did Tom Wade go with him?
HATFIELD: Oh, yes. Tom Wade went with him and there was another groom
here that went with him.
SMITH: Hmm.
HATFIELD: Carlos--
SMITH: --hmm-
HATFIELD: --went with him. It was very sad, it was a very sad day it
was um, I mean, the horse was ill um, he was recovering from surgery
00:47:00and it was a sad, sad day for everybody to see him get on a van and
leave here after, after being here for seventeen years.
SMITH: Yeah I, I can imagine that. Sad for the horse too.
HATFIELD: It was sad for the horse, I think it was, I mean certainly
he, he knew Tom and he knew the Taylors, but it was a different
barn, different surroundings, he wasn't in the same place he'd always
been. Um, moving a horse of that age is very stressful even in good
circumstances.
SMITH: Now how old was he when he died? Twenty-seven-
HATFIELD: --twenty-seven or twenty-eight.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: So it was, it was sad.
SMITH: Um, so when we lost Seattle Slew who was here then, who was the,
who were still here as stallions at that point?
HATFIELD: Oh. You know, I'd have to get a stallion book out, but um. I
mean, Silver Charm was still here, Dynaformer, Capote, then we'd um, I
00:48:00think maybe Miesque's Son had gone on, we had fewer stallions then we,
than we had had.
SMITH: Who was your best stallion at that point?
HATFIELD: Probably Rahy.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: Um-hm.
SMITH: Now how many of your stallions just in general um, over the years
here at Three Chimneys are owned in partnership, are any of 'em owned
outright by Three Chimneys, syndicated, what's the?
HATFIELD: The, probably the horse that we own the most of right now is
Rahy, we own half of Rahy with um, Gainsborough, with Sheikh Maktoum.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: Some of the horses we own part, pieces of, some of the horses
we don't own any of.
SMITH: Okay, they just pay you to keep them here and breed them.
HATFIELD: --(swallows)--And we get what we call, it's called breeding
rights that we can sell those or breed our own mares to 'em.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: And we've also started a stallion fund and some of the horses
are owned by, the stallion fund may own seven shares or a quarter of
the horse or something like that. Which is a group of people that
00:49:00come in and they invest in this, in this fund and out of that fund we
buy stallions.
SMITH: Okay. Sounds complicated.
HATFIELD: It is. --(both laugh)--
SMITH: Does um, when you have a stallion here I assume that with each
stallion there's a different kind of a contract--
HATFIELD: --yes--
SMITH: --with the owners, now are there certain things Three Chimneys
insists upon in terms of making sure they have some--how the animal
will be cared for and those kinds of things?
HATFIELD: I, well I mean we're the syndicate and the stallion
managers for the most part so the daily care of the horses are our
responsibility.
SMITH: It's up to you.
HATFIELD: Um-hm. And we, we limit our horses' book um, you know,
between 110-120 so we're not breeding 130-180-190-200 mares. Um,
Mr. Clay really believes that that's not only bad for the horse, but
you're saturating the market.
SMITH: Um-hm.
HATFIELD: So we don't routinely show like Coolmore, Ashford does, a lot
00:50:00of farms routinely move all their horses to, to the southern hemisphere
breeding season, to Australia, New Zealand, Brazil, Chili. We have
done it in the past, we did it again this year for the first time in
a long time, but its on an individual basis. We have to have a, you
know, feel good about the farm he's going to, have some control on how
many mares that he's being bred to, how many covers he has 'cause the
seasons are shorter down there so, you know, it's, it's an X number of
mares or Y number of covers which ever comes first.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: And what they do basically they lease that horse from us with
these restrictions for southern hemisphere breeding.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: And most of the time the stallions that we get here are a
relationship um, just like the Chapman's, they kept part of Smarty
Jones. The, the people that want to sell their horses outright, we
don't have as deep of pockets as some of the other horses and other
farms and we don't routinely ship horses to be bred out of the country
so, you know, obviously Sheikh Mak-, the Maktoum family can spend a lot
00:51:00more money on a horse than we can because we have to be able to recoup
our money. So if somebody just wants to sell a horse outright, we're
probably not gonna get the horse as was the case with Fusaichi Pegasus
and Street Sense, those horses were, we were probably the second horse
underneath those people.
SMITH: Um-hm.
HATFIELD: Fusaichi Pegasus went to Coolmore, Street Sense went to
Darley, and they bought those horses outright.
SMITH: Right. Okay, okay. Oh, you need to, it's after three you have
to do something.
HATFIELD: Okay. Hello [answers phone]
SMITH: Okay, um, well I have to ask you about getting Smarty Jones. You
were, were here when that deal was done, so how did that change things?
HATFIELD: Ah well, we've always done public tours and that was
definitely a relationship uh, decision the Chapman's made. They wanted
00:52:00to continue to own part of the horse and have some um, control over
what happened--they didn't want him to be bred to more than X number of
mares, they didn't want him to shuttle, they wanted him to be available
to the public um, to visit him. And every farm that I think they
talked to said we will do that, but we're the only farm that had always
done it. We'd always been open to the public, we'd always let people
in to see horses, be it Seattle Slew or Silver Charm. Robert feels
that that's very important, that we let the public in, um--you know,
the two dollar betters what keeps our business going and, you know, the
more people we can get interested, involved the better off we all are.
And people drive by here and say they're really pretty, but they don't
understand all the work that goes into it.
SMITH: No.
HATFIELD: So and again, I mean, we were the, and its, its very true, I
mean, Dan Rosenberg said it--it's like the star high school basketball
player and there they are at home and, you know, Tubby Smith and Rick
00:53:00Pitino and, and, you know, all the good college coaches, Coach Kay,
you know, they're all there in your living room one at a time coming
in telling your parents why your son should come to our college. And
it's the same way when they're, you, they're looking for a stallion.
You know, there's maybe ten or twelve stallions that you really look
at, and, you know, conformation, pedigree, and race record. And some
of those, you know, maybe four of those horses you already know--
they're owned by the Maktoum's or they're owned by Juddmonte, they're
owned by Coolmore, they're owned by Lane's End and, you know, they're
already going somewhere. And there's those that don't maybe have the
conformation or the pedigree that you want. And there's some that
people are just looking to sell to the highest bidder, which we talked
about before, for us that's usually not the horses we get 'cause we--it
helps now with the Stallion Fund that we have cash readily available
but um, you know, we just don't have as deep of pockets as some of the
00:54:00others so it really has to be a relationship. And when Robert and,
went, and Dan and Mark went to talk to Roy and Pat Chapman, really,
everything they wanted to do lined up with what we already do. And they
wanted to be involved, they wanted to still retain part of the horse
and, and even, we were the first ones there and I think--she was here
not very long ago and I think she said they talked to either six or
eight other farms that came in and did the same pitch that we did and
she said, you know, it was just, they, she knew, she said," I almost
didn't want to talk to anybody else after I talked to Robert." But she
said, "I knew that I had to," but, she said, "this was the best place
for him," and she, you know, she says, "I'm so glad we moved him here."
SMITH: Now he's been here three years?
HATFIELD: Got two year olds this year.
SMITH: That's right. I've read about them.
HATFIELD: Start, bred his first season in 2005.
SMITH: And he's having some, they're having some success.
HATFIELD: Yes. He's had, I think five starters now and two winners.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: So, you know, it, it's with any horse and one thing about this
00:55:00business and now people are very fickle and if you don't have good two
year old winners, you know, it takes a long time for your name to get
back up there.
SMITH: So now that he has does that increase?
HATFIELD: Well, you know, we're still a long way from the, February the
15th, into the breeding season so we'll have to wait and see how the
rest of the, you know, year goes and how he does and.
SMITH: Has he been a pretty--what's his temperament like?
HATFIELD: Uh, he's pretty much a prima donna. He is, very much, it's
all about Smarty Jones. --(Smith laughs)-- Um, he handled it all very
well. We ask him to do a lot um, you know. I think there's been,
other than Christmas Day um, there's somebody here almost every day of
the year to see him. Derby, I mean Derby, Thanksgiving, people, you
know, people come to see him and it's amazing how many people still
plan their vacations around coming to see Smarty Jones. Um, you know,
00:56:00it's been four years since he won the Kentucky Derby, but that whole
connection with, you know, his trainer getting killed, with John's
service, with Stewart Elliott, with the Chapman's um, the horse getting
hurt as a two year old, you know--
SMITH: --right--
HATFIELD: --he fractured his skull. All those things uh, really made
him such a, a--people loved him and identified with him as, you know,
a horse that overcame a lot. And the people overcame a lot, you know,
his owners were reformed alcoholics, Stewart Elliott was, they kept
Stewart Elliott through the whole Triple Crown even though he wasn't,
you know a, one of the top jockeys. So I think that he really touched
a lot of people and people still--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --you know, really uh, think a lot, think a lot of him.
SMITH: Now how has it changed your work as stallion manager to have this
influx of visitors, it's, it has changed significantly right?
00:57:00
HATFIELD: It has changed significantly. We probably had um, eight to
ten thousand visitors a year before Smarty. Um, we've enlarged our
office, we've enlarged our parking lot, we've hired a, a tour person,
and really, we always did tours and the tours aren't the hard part its,
now it's the number of emails we get and the number of phone calls we
get. Ann comes in the morning, she came in Monday morning, she had 357
emails of people wanting tours. Um, you know, people are calling, all
that, the logistics of scheduling and talking to people, calling people
back--
SMITH: --gee--
HATFIELD: --emailing people back is the big part, when we get mail, he
gets birthday cards, father's day cards and Easter cards and Christmas
cards and uh--
SMITH: --now the tours--
HATFIELD: --presents--
SMITH: --the tours are free?
HATFIELD: Tours are free. We do 'em five days a week, Tuesday through
Saturday. Um, we don't do 'em during the sales. Before Smarty we took
three months off and we don't do that now, we do them twelve months out
of the year.
SMITH: Oh.
HATFIELD: Right now the tours, every, all the Saturday tours are booked
00:58:00through the end of November.
SMITH: So even during breeding season?
HATFIELD: We took December through February off, we used to take
December, January, and February off--
SMITH: --okay--
HATFIELD: --from the tours, but we don't do that anymore.
SMITH: So now that puts you in a position of being something of a public
figure, an ambassador, a spokesperson, whatever you want to call it.
HATFIELD: Yeah. I, I mean, I think that UM, you know, we used to do the
tours and we still obviously do the tours on Saturday, Ann doesn't work
on Saturday. Um, and we still do a lot, I try to, you know, Ann lets
me know if there's a special group or something that I need to go down
and talk to and--I think you do, you become a spokesman not only for
Three Chimneys but for the Thoroughbred industry as a whole and Ann is
also in that, you know, role.
SMITH: Do you enjoy that?
HATFIELD: I do and I think that's why I like the stallions, I mean, I
like talking to people, I like showing off our--I love what I do and
it's very wonderful for me to be able to tell people that.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: Um, I've definitely done something that most people would
00:59:00not have thought a woman could do and I think that that's real, real
important for young women to knowthat if they have something they want
to do if they work hard enough they can do it.
SMITH: Um-hm.
HATFIELD: Um, and I do like talking to people, I love sharing my story
and the story of the horses and the industry, how many good things
it is.
SMITH: ------------(??). Now let me ask you about Dynaformer --
(Hatfield laughs)--, now ever since Barbaro there's that very strong
interest in Dynaformer and he's getting a little old?
HATFIELD: He's twenty-three.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: He's twenty-three.
SMITH: He's still breeding.
HATFIELD: Uh-huh, he is. Um, he is probably our most aggressive
stallion, he always has been. He was, started out down the road at
Nathan Fox's farm. Started his first career out at $3,500. Really's
come up the hard way, he was a fairly good race horse, but not a great
race horse--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --and he's basically made it on his own, you know, as he got
better, he got better mares and he, you know, moved his mares up. Um,
and he's a, he, he's a interesting horse that, you know, you do, some
01:00:00days he's in a bad mood and you do what you have to do and you, you
know, leave him alone. I mean, we handle him differently than we do
some of the other horses and um.
SMITH: Um-hm. Now has he gotten more popular in terms of people wanting
to breed with him since Barbaro?
HATFIELD: Well, I mean, he was a great sire before Barbaro. He's just,
I think more in the public eye.
SMITH: Okay.
[Pause in recording.]
SMITH: --(Hatfield laughs)--I know you're working. Okay.
HATFIELD: So I mean, he, Dynaformer's always been a great sire he just
became more in the public eye.
SMITH: Oh, so it really hasn't changed anything?
HATFIELD: And he was, he was, I mean, his stud fee was $100,000 before
and it was gonna move up to probably a hundred and a quarter the year
Barbaro won the Derby. So it moved up to $150,000.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: So, it wasn't like he was $3,500 and then the next day he
was $150,000.
SMITH: Right.
HATFIELD: It was an incremental thing and he, you know, he had just been
01:01:00coming up the ladder.
SMITH: Okay. Well it sounds like all your stallions have very distinct
personalities.
HATFIELD: They do and I think that's why I really like working with
stallions, you get to know each of 'em individually, there's a lot of
puzzles um, to figure out, you know, when you're getting ready to breed
'em, when the mares come in if you've got a tough mare, if you've got a
problem mare--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --if you've got a horse that may have a, may have a problem.
Again I like talking to the people, I like, you know, you're real close
with your crew 'cause you're around them all the time unlike maybe a
broodmare or yearling manager when you've got, you know, hundreds of
horses to take care of and you, you go in and see, you know, say hi to
everybody, but you don't really have a, a close relationship with them.
SMITH: Now um, one of the things and as I've been reading about Three
Chimneys um, talking about the staff retreats and dif-,--is the
management style here different in any significant way from what you
experienced before?
HATFIELD: Um, I, I think we're definitely, the managers are more involved
01:02:00in the decision making, but when you have an absentee owner um--
SMITH: --um-hm. Like Sheikh Mohammad.
HATFIELD: Like Sheikh Mohammad, Sheikh Maktoum. Um, even when I worked
at North Ridge the Groveses were, were really, they didn't live here
they lived in Minnesota. But I think as I become a manager and moved
up the ladder obviously your opinion is much more important than when
I was just grooming horses. So I think you have to take that into
consideration, but I was very limited in the, any decision making at,
at Gainsborough um, other than in my little area.
SMITH: Um-hm.
HATFIELD: When we do uh, you know, when we go to Robert's pool house
and we all talk about strategy for the farm and the future, when Case
came in and was gonna come to work at the farm we all went over and
were in a meeting and talked about how it was gonna change and how we
were gonna work it all out. I mean, that's very impressive that Robert
01:03:00wants to know what we all think.
SMITH: Um-hm, um-hm.
HATFIELD: So, I think that's, that's the big difference. And I don't
know how Lane's End does it or how Three--
SMITH: --no--
HATFIELD: --Taylor Made does it um, but I, I appreciate being
appreciated.
SMITH: Yeah, yeah.
HATFIELD: And it makes a lot of difference that, you know, you may be
able to go somewhere and make more money or work less or, you know--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --but to me being appreciated and being asked my opinion and
actually listened to uh, is important.
SMITH: Has that uh, impacted your own management style?
HATFIELD: Uh, yeah, I mean, I think I've always been a pretty much a,
ask peoples opinion, I think I've always been that way. So I think it,
maybe this management style just suits me better because that's the way
I manage. Even if you're a groom you may see something that I don't
01:04:00see or you may have an idea that I don't know or I've never thought of
or, you know, so lets try it. It's just like with Rahy this year he
was having a little trouble staying up on his mares and Oscar said, you
know, when we bred so and so at such and such farm we buried his mares.
And I thought well we tried that with, with Seattle Slew and it didn't
work. Well, this horse has a different breeding style and we did it
and we bred him the mares the rest that way the whole year, you know.
So, and I don't--I try not to micro-manage, I try not to be in there--
those guys are good enough horseman that they ought to be able to--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --to tell. I don't run my hand down every horses leg every
day. If I, if I did I don't need people like that working for me I
need just somebody, you know--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --a groom. Um, and I try to mentor, I try to help I think
if you talk to Shane Glass who's the assistant, my assistant, he will
tell you that I've helped him in his people skills 'cause he was sorely
lacking in them when I got here. --(both laugh)--Uh, so I think I'm a
01:05:00good teacher.
SMITH: Hmm. Have you uh, in your mentoring phase uh, or activities,
are there many people who have left and gone on and have been helped by
your training? You talk about people who you, who were mentors to you.
HATFIELD: I think um, probably the most uh, person that has gone on and
done really well is Billy Drury who is the stallion manager at Adena
Springs. Uh, Louise Teater worked with me at North Ridge and she went
on to gallop race horses and, and I think maybe, though she didn't
become, she didn't work with me in stallions, but we train, we broke
horses together and.
SMITH: Um-hm.
HATFIELD: Uh, when I left the training barn to go full time over to the
stallion barn at North Ridge I suggested that they let her take over
the training barn and, you know, she always second guessed me no matter
what I did, it was--oh I didn't feed enough hay, I didn't do this, I
didn't do that right, why are you doing this, why are you putting that
01:06:00bandage on, you know--and it's always easy when you can second guess
somebody if you're not the one that has to take the heat for it and
when I left I told her that, I said, It's not gonna be as easy as you
think it is." And sure enough in about three days she was calling me
going, what do I do about this, and how do I handle that, you were so
right and I'm so sorry I gave you such a hard time for three years.
--(both laugh)--But and that's what I tell people, you know, it's easy
when you're not the one that has to make the decision and I try to let
those guys make decisions down there, you know, what do you, what kind
of bandage do you think we ought a put on.
SMITH: Right.
HATFIELD: Why do you want to put that on, I don't know you guys want
to turn out early today or you wanta, you know. I'm happy to make the
decision and I don't have a problem making any decision, but you're
never gonna learn if you don't, if you're not able to make decisions
and if you have a manager that makes every decisions than how are you
ever gonna know what's right or what's wrong.
SMITH: What do you look for in people you hire?
HATFIELD: I just did that, I just hired somebody I hope I made the right
01:07:00decision. --(both laugh)-- Every time I do it I think, second guess
myself too. I hired a young man straight out of college to be my night
watchman. [phone rings]
[Pause in recording.]
SMITH: That's all right. We were talking about what you look for in uh,
hiring people?
HATFIELD: I think the most important thing I look for is somebody that
wants to do it, not, doesn't just want a job 'cause there's a lot
of people out there that just want a job. Um, it's like the night
watchman, there were a lot of people that just wanted a job and this,
obviously they want a job or they wouldn't be here, but I, I look for
somebody who's dedicated. I really try to move people up on the farm.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: I mean, I think for the most part the stallion barn is kinda
like the, you know, the place the, you know, the people aspire to work,
at least they used to be that way when I was a groom. Um, those that
are interested obviously. So I try to move people up, there's um, a
01:08:00couple guys, two or three guys down there, that have moved up either
from the broodmares or the yearlings--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --and that helps because you already know their work ethic--
SMITH: --right--
HATFIELD: --you already know who they are, what, what they, what they're
about. But I look for people that, that want to work, that get along
well with others --(laughs). We are so concentrated down there and you
have to work so closely. It's not like you have two people in a twenty
stall barn.
SMITH: Right.
HATFIELD: You know, each guy takes care of two horses. So in a six
stall barn there's three guys.
SMITH: Yeah.
HATFIELD: They have to get along um. And, you know, one bad apple can
spoil the whole bunch is very true, --(both laugh)--is very true.
SMITH: Absolutely, absolutely.
HATFIELD: Um, you know, don't hire a jerk, you know
SMITH: Yeah.
HATFIELD: And the first, you know, I did a lot of--I mean, this is
important to, to call references--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --and, and talk to people that worked with 'em and know their
work ethic. We work a lot.
01:09:00
SMITH: Yeah.
HATFIELD: And I need somebody's that not afraid to work. Even though
there not taking care of very many horses, you know, we're here till
7:30 at night.
SMITH: Yeah.
HATFIELD: We come in at 6:30 in the morning. Some of these guys--I work
seven days a week during the breeding season. And so does Tony Burton
and so does Rick, you know.
SMITH: Yeah.
HATFIELD: It's, it's part of the lifestyle and that's what I tell
people, young people that come and are interested in working in the
horse business--the, the higher you get up the ladder the more you work
it's not the other way around, you know.
SMITH: Yeah.
HATFIELD: If you want to work out on the farm, if you want to be a
hands-on horse manager, you have to be willing to put in the time.
SMITH: Right.
HATFIELD: And that's what people ask me, you know, don't you want to
be a Dan Rosenberg, don't you want to be in the office--and I, I may
at one time, but I don't now 'cause I'm not interested in talking on
the phone.
SMITH: Yeah.
HATFIELD: You know, I came and got this job because I love horses and I
love people.
SMITH: Yeah.
HATFIELD: I'm a very hands-on person.
SMITH: Oh, an organization that uh, I think you're associated with,
01:10:00at least from everything I've read about you, the Kentucky Equine
Management Intern Program--
HATFIELD: --um-hm, um-hm--
SMITH: --as well as Big Brothers--
HATFIELD: --yes--
SMITH: --and Big Sisters, those are the two that came up, but the um,
intern program has that been a good?
HATFIELD: It has been. We're still really um, in our infancy, we've
been doing it a while, but I think every year we learn something. When
I first came to town and Dan Rosenberg too, there were a lot of people
that wanted to be managers and there was a lot of people standing in
line to get $5 an hour jobs--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --uh, and the, the influx of the Irish that came over um,
those guys are now, almost all of them, are managers somewhere.
SMITH: Were they coming in, in the '80's, early '80's?
HATFIELD: Um-hm. Um-hm. Uh, and, you know, we don't see a lot of
influx of people that want to be managers. A lot of the Hispanic
people uh, are not managers, they want to be a groom or they want to
be a foreman, but they don't want to be a manager because they don't
like to tell people what to do. And, and it, in Mexico it's very class
01:11:00oriented and a guy that grew up in Mexico City doesn't want some guy
that's uneducated that worked in the country telling him what to do
although the guy in the country may be a much better horseman than the
guy that worked in the city.
SMITH: Right.
HATFIELD: So that's very difficult to overcome that with the Hispanic
community. Uh, so having KEMI, having those kids come in from all
over the United States to come and get immersed in this business is
really important. I think you can look and I bet 40% of the people are
still here, they may not be out on the farms, like Beth who is our uh,
accounting person--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --she was a KEMI graduate.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: So I think it, it's an important thing, I think that from
Okalahoma I didn't know anything about Lexington, Kentucky. Leslie
Jack who is our uh, uh, administrative person for KEMI--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --our coordinator she goes and goes to the universities and
01:12:00talks and, you know, hands out material and, and it lets people know if
this is what they want to do, it's a lot of hard work and a lot of the
kids that are juniors or seniors or just graduating from college have
never had a job--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --that work, you work it's a six days a week, it's 7-4,
it's hot, it's cold, it's tiring, you're mucking stalls, you're not
gonna come in and work for six months and be a manager, it's just not
happening, you know. And if they come in and they can work hard they
can make a living and they can make a good living and they can have a
great job.
SMITH: Um-hm.
HATFIELD: And I think that it's been real important for us to show young
people that there is a place for them here. And they may not want to
be a stallion manager, brood-, maybe they want to work in accounting or
they want to work in the Blood-Horse or they want to be a nutritionist,
they want to work at McCauley's or Woodford Feed or they want to work
for the Blood-Horse or.
SMITH: Is there a need to bring young people into the industry?
01:13:00
HATFIELD: Most definitely.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: Most definitely. And a lot of people ask us with KEMI why
don't we do internships at the Blood-Horse or at those places, but
it's Kentucky Equine Farm Management Internship. I don't know anything
about working at the Blood-Horse --(both laugh)--and, and, you know, we
can certainly after you finish this program go on, but I think even if
you work--and Beth made a good point, she came down, they just started
a new class and they have um, a week that they go around and go to the
different farms and go to the Blood-Horse and go to the Jockey Club and
kinda give everybody an idea of what this is all about. Um, and Beth
says it certainly helps her to have worked in the barn and know what's
going on that, so she can look at those bills and she can say--oh well,
yeah, what a, I know what that is and I know why they need it and I
know--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --you know, she has some idea. And I don't think you can be a
good manager unless you've mucked stalls.
SMITH: Yeah.
HATFIELD: You know, you don't know how long it takes, you don't know
what it takes, you don't know how long it takes you to groom a horse,
01:14:00you don't--you can learn a lot of stuff out of a book, but you can't
learn how to be a horseman out of a book.
SMITH: Yeah. Yeah.
HATFIELD: So I think it's a great organization and I think we, every
year we learn and um, there's a lot--we had a young man here for the
foaling season--I, he say's, I don't want be, I don't want to work
outside, I don't want to work in a barn I, you know, I, this is not
what I want to do. Well, he learned that.
SMITH: Right.
HATFIELD: And if he wants to a bloodstock agent he does know what it
takes to be, you know, when he goes and looks at those yearlings or
those--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --foals he knows how hard they worked that morning to get them
all cleaned up, to get 'em ready.
SMITH: Right.
HATFIELD: They don't come up looking like that, you know, somebody's,
you know, gotten the mud off of 'em or given 'em a bath--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --or, you know, painted their feet or held them for the
blacksmith.
SMITH: Um-hm.
HATFIELD: So I think anything, it's just like any job, you know, the
more you know about underneath you the better manager you are.
SMITH: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Hmm. Well, the other organization,
Big Brothers Big Sisters does that have any relationship with, with
01:15:00horses or do you, is this just something you got interested in?
HATFIELD: I got interested in it, you know, you'd always heard of it Big
Brothers and Big Sisters and I always thought it was a wonderful thing.
I, we don't, my husband and I don't have any children. And it's a
great way to give back. When I was at Gainsborough one of the guys
that worked there, Jim Petrey, was a Big Brother.
SMITH: Do you need to get that?
HATFIELD: It's the blacksmith.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: It's never ending. --(laughs)--
SMITH: That's the job,
HATFIELD: Yep.
SMITH: As you're telling me. Um, okay, Big Brothers and Big Sisters.
HATFIELD: Anyway, Jim Petrey uh, who worked at Gainsborough had a Little
Brother and he brought him one day and I saw them interacting with each
other. So I talked to Jim and got involved and became a Big Sister.
Um, and during that time I also started working on, on the Board of
Directors and Blythe Clay was on the Board of Directors at that time.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: So that's how I got to be friends with her. And uh, I got
01:16:00more and more involved in the board and realized what a--the best way
to change a child's life is a mentor and the best mentoring program
in the United States is Big Brothers Big Sisters. It's been proven
statistically to help children um, do better in school, to get along
better with their peers, their teachers, their parents, they're less
likely to use drugs, they're less likely to skip school um, and you,
and they're, you know, changing children one at a time is you know you
have to start somewhere.
SMITH: Absolutely.
HATFIELD: And uh, I mean I, I've seen it in the children, I've seen
it--I now have my second Little Sister, she's, be a senior in high
school next year, we've been together for six years. And I'm also the
uh, for 2008-2009 I'll be the President of the Board of Directors for
Big Brothers Big Sisters of the Bluegrass. So when people tell me they
01:17:00don't have enough time --(both laugh)--to uh, volunteer uh, it's hard
for them to explain that to me.
SMITH: Yeah, yeah. As you were saying that I was thinking how in the
world does she fit that in.
HATFIELD: You know, and when I was--both of the little girls that I was
matched with were horse crazy. Grace isn't so much anymore, but she
certainly knows a lot about horses now. Um, and I bring her out here,
you know, and I, during the breeding season, I mean, I go and I pick
her up, we go have dinner and I come back here, she comes back to work
with me and I take her home. I just had a yard sale Satur-, Friday and
Saturday and she was with me all day--
SMITH: --yeah--
HATFIELD: --both days, we're gonna have another one to finish the rest
of our stuff and she, you know, --(Smith laughs)--and it's not about
spending money on 'em . People always say well I can't afford it, well
you don't have to take 'em to Kings Island, take 'em to the park.
SMITH: That's right.
HATFIELD: It's just about spending time with them and, and it's a great
organization and I think they do great work and those people work very
01:18:00hard too. Those, those girls and those guys that are the, the match
support specialists and the people that are getting the volunteers
and, and um, recruiting and fundraising. They work tirelessly; they're
working Saturday's at the, at the Bowl for Kids Sake or--
SMITH: --yeah--
HATFIELD: --at the park or, you know--
SMITH: --yeah--
HATFIELD: --so. It's a great organization. And we uh, I think we help
a lot of kids.
SMITH: Now it does sound like you uh, um, keep yourself very busy.
HATFIELD: I do. --(laughs)-- Yeah, my husband tells me if I get home
early I'm home at 6:30 or 7:00 --(both laugh)--. So, I mean, if you
look at my desk there's a lot of stuff on it about horses and there's
a lot of stuff on it that's not and I'm mostly involved with, involved
with the, the uh, uh organization called Life Adventure Center.
SMITH: Okay --------------(??).
HATFIELD: Who is a, a--it started out as the Cleveland Home which is a
place in Versailles that I didn't know anything about as long as I've
01:19:00lived here until I was um, asked to, to become involved. And it was
donated by John Cleveland. It was a home for uh, girls that, orphaned
girls that's how it started out in the 18, late 1800's he donated the,
the house and donated a large amount of money. And as there are no
more orphan girls, I mean, there's no more orphans, you know, there's
foster care, there's no more orphanages. It got into state placed
girls um, that had, were in trouble--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --in one way or another. And pretty soon it was going down
the drain. The, the foundation was being sucked dry uh, and we went to
private pay, seven or eight years ago. Uh, and most of the girls came
from out east, they were, most of them were girls that were adopted.
It's amazing how much trouble they have even though you wouldn't
think--they now have a loving family, they have a lot of abandonment
01:20:00issues um, a lot of self esteem issues.
SMITH: Um-hm.
HATFIELD: So a lot of those girls, it's a, it was a lock down facility,
SMITH: Oh.
HATFIELD: Um, they have a lot of problems with drugs and alcohol um,
self-mutilation, uh, uh, so that was--and we were very good at it but
we got to the point where we couldn't get a teacher to come in because
they couldn't go to public school.
SMITH: Right.
HATFIELD: Uh, you know, we'd be at a meeting and the phone would ring
and the, the administrative assistant had to go because some girl had
broken out of her room and she was on the roof.
SMITH: Yeah.
HATFIELD: So um, in the meantime we'd been donated um, out in the
country a large farm, about 600 acres. We started doing equine therapy
and that's why I got involved.
SMITH: Ah, okay.
HATFIELD: And about five years, almost five years ago, we sold the house
downtown, closed the residential facility and went full time out at the
farm. So, now instead of doing uh, we're doing prevention.
01:21:00
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: So, we have uh, we have a high ropes and low ropes course--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --challenge course, we have a mobile unit that goes out to
the schools that might work with the, a group of kids that are having
trouble. You can, they can come to the farm and do the high and low
ropes course. Monday they had a farm field day through the 4-H--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --all the 4-H kids came out. So it's a new, it's pretty new
organization and it's just, we just hired a new executive director and
it's just getting, getting rolling. But it's helping kids and adults
with their day to day um, issues--
SMITH: --yeah--
HATFIELD: --through communication and uh.
SMITH: It sounds like a good program.
HATFIELD: It is a, it's a great program, it's a great program, so.
SMITH: Another challenge.
HATFIELD: --(laughs)--Another challenge, yeah, so anyway.
SMITH: Okay, well, you know, I, many of the people I've interviewed, a
lot of the people in the horse industry give back in ways that I'm not
sure people understand so uh, it's good to be able to talk about that
01:22:00in this as well.
HATFIELD: Yeah. We have a, a Charitable Giving Committee here at Three
Chimneys and I mean, you know, Robert does a lot, you know, we get a
lot of letters, we meet maybe quarterly and we, there's a stack of stu-
, you know, and you can't give to everything. Oh, okay. Got another
one.
SMITH: --(laughs)--okay.
[Pause in recording.]
SMITH: questions, that's okay. Okay. Um, I'm gonna take you back to
uh, issues of being a female in this, in this business.
HATFIELD: Okay.
SMITH: How would you describe the opportunities for females today versus
when you got started?
HATFIELD: Oh, I think they're much better. Uh, I mean, I think if you
went around you'd see a lot more females, certainly in management issues
they are. Although I worked with a, an excellent person, her name was
Susan Ballinger and she was a assistant broodmare manager when I was
at Spendthrift, she ended up being a broodmare manager at North Ridge.
And she was a, a very good horsewoman and uh, she left the business,
01:23:00you know, she just uh, it was a lot of work and it was a lot of time
and, and a lot of hassle and she is a licensed massage therapist down
at Hilton Head --(both laugh)--. So, she's playing golf and uh, giving
massages. But uh, and as we talked, I mean, I think the influx of
women vets have made people realize that women can do it, because it,
you know, if you're gonna get a vet, most of them are women.
SMITH: Um-hm.
HATFIELD: So a lot, a lot of women in the industry. Um, I still think
your gonna, you've got a lot of hardboots that are, until those are
gone, they're not gonna think a woman can do a lot of things.
SMITH: Um-um.
HATFIELD: Um, stallion work is probably one of 'em and there's still
some of my contemporaries that I can argue with them until I'm blue in
the face that, that a woman can't work with stallions and--
SMITH: --Despite your success?
HATFIELD: Yes. And, you know, it gets to the point where I'm not gonna
01:24:00argue with it. You know, I know, I know I can do it I've been doing
it for a long time --(both laugh)--uh, but, but I do think it's easier.
But I still think that if you want to do something that's not readily
a woman job that you still have to work harder, you still have to give
110% and a guy may only have to give 90. Uh, you have to be willing
to be--and I think you do if you want to be in any management position,
you've got to be the person that is the go to person. If you've got a
sick foal and it's 4:00 and it's time to go home and you've gotta date
at 6 you're still gonna have to be the person to say wait I'll, I'll go
with that vet and foal to the clinic or I'll stay and give his meds, or
I'll, you know, the night watchman doesn't show up, you know, let me go
home and change clothes get an hours sleep and I'll be back.
SMITH: Um-hm.
HATFIELD: You know, you still, you still have to put forth the effort
and that's true whether you're a man or a woman.
SMITH: Right, but the thinking is that a woman wouldn't do it.
HATFIELD: Right. And I still think its hard and I, and it is hard if,
01:25:00if you're married and have children. You have to have somebody's who
is very understanding. I have a very understanding husband. He was
in the horse business so he knows how hard it is and he also knows how
dedicated I am. But, you know, when you have kids and they're sick
and you've got to take them to school or you've got to go pick them up
from school or, you know, and you've got the vet there and you're doing
the middle of your rounds or you're in the middle of the breeding shed,
unless you've got a husband that can back you up, it's pretty hard and,
and that's why a lot of women vets, you know, leave the horse industry
and go into, you know, small animal.
SMITH: Right, where they can control it better.
HATFIELD: Yeah
SMITH: When you have people negotiating to bring the stallions here is
the fact that you're a woman ever an issue?
HATFIELD: I don't think so um, and I actually think it was a comfort
to Roy and Pat Chapman, I know it was to Pat. Um, you know, it's
interesting that a lot of people were very taken back that I was,
01:26:00managed the stallions for an Arab.
SMITH: Right. Right.
HATFIELD: But really Sheikh Maktoum didn't really have much to do with my
hiring and I'm sure if it bothered him it would have been easy for him
to fire me or have me fired. But I think for the most part that I do
a good job, the stallions are well taken care of, if you go down there
and you need, look at the horses uh, you know that, that they're well--
SMITH: --right--
HATFIELD: --well looked after, my, the fertility rates are good, there,
you know, the horses are good breeders and certainly, you know, if you
have a horse that has a fertility problem there's not much I can do
about it other than management, you know, management style, I can't
make him more, can't make him have more sperm, but I can utilize that
sperm better so.
SMITH: Right, right.
HATFIELD: Um, so.
SMITH: When I first met you you'd made a comment about um, how some
people will come into the barn looking for a manager and just overlook
you completely because they don't expect a woman.
HATFIELD: Woman. Yeah.
SMITH: Does that still happen?
01:27:00
HATFIELD: Um, sometimes, yeah. I think that I've been here long enough
and people know who I am now, ------------(??) I still think that's
very strange that people know me, but UM, they, it doesn't happen as
much as it used to.
SMITH: Um-hm.
HATFIELD: But yeah, they'd walk right past me. That was always a lot of
fun when they had to come back --(both laugh)--. And, and, you know,
sometimes, you know, I talk very frankly about what I do
SMITH: Right.
HATFIELD: And, I mean, I that's what I do.
SMITH: Right.
HATFIELD: And, it's not, sometimes it's not very good dinner conversation
talking about a lot of this if, if people aren't interested--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --and, and so, and you have to be interested I mean just like
Veronica, you know, she's very interested in all the intricacies and,
and, of it.
SMITH: Um-hm, um-hm.
HATFIELD: So.
SMITH: Hmm.
HATFIELD: My husband says I've probably handled more inches of penis
01:28:00than any woman in the entire world. --(both laugh)--
SMITH: That's probably true. And you're right people have to be
comfortable listening to that. I think um, Alice Chandler's response
about not going into the breeding shed was she didn't want to embarrass
the men.
HATFIELD: Um-hm.
SMITH: Yeah.
HATFIELD: And I think you have to have guys that, that get over that--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --that I, that it's all part of it. And, and I guarantee you
that there's not nearly as much trash talk in my breeding shed as there
is in a breeding shed with a bunch of men. Because those guys respect
me and they still trash talk, I mean.
SMITH: Sure.
HATFIELD: Like I said it's a very sex-, sexually charged atmosphere and,
and they joke around a lot and they say a lot of stuff, but I guarantee
you it's not as nasty as if you go into a breeding shed when it was
all men.
SMITH: Yeah, yeah. I can imagine that. --(Hatfield laughs)-- Okay um,
there's another thing I've heard a lot about various superstitions.
Was there ever any, any superstitions associated with having a woman
in the--
HATFIELD: --I don't--
01:29:00
SMITH: --stallion barn?
HATFIELD: I don't think so. There may be that I don't know anything
about.
SMITH: But no ones told you?
HATFIELD: No, but nobody-, everybody's afraid to tell me --(both laugh)-
-Uh, no and I think a lot of people thought and still think to this day
that a woman during her time would sexually arouse a stallion when,
and you couldn't handle him. Which I'm sorry I think it's an amazing
amount of bologna because if you took a dog in there that was in heat
it wouldn't make any difference to the horse. Uh, but, I think that
that's a, it's an old wives tale
SMITH: Yeah.
HATFIELD: Yeah they ha-, they, the pheromones or whatever they say--
SMITH: --yeah, yeah--
HATFIELD: --but, I mean--
SMITH: You never had any trouble. --(laughs)--
HATFIELD: I never had any trouble no and if you think about it during
your time of the month it's not when you're fertile anyway.
SMITH: Right, that wouldn't.
HATFIELD: You know, that's not when you're ovulating and that's what's
important to a, you know, the stallion.
01:30:00
SMITH: You're putting off the wrong scent anyway.
HATFIELD: Yeah, exactly, putting of the wrong scent anyway. And like I
said they don't get aroused when an in heat dog comes in there or a, or
a giraffe, --(Smith-laughs)--you know, so anyway, its uh, but I don't
know of any. I think mostly it was embarrassment and, and because it
was, it's a, it can be a very violent--
SMITH: --yeah--
HATFIELD: --situation, especially if you have a maiden mare in there,
I mean, there's a lot of restraint on the mare um, and it, it can look
very violent.
SMITH: What is your job in the mating?
HATFIELD: Depends on--what I do mostly I do, I enter and look at the
dismount sample, but if we have enough people, I don't do that either.
I like to do that, I like to be involved, but if we've got, it makes
more sense for me to stand back and watch than--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --Joe.
SMITH: Um-hm.
HATFIELD: Um, and you can't, I, I can't see the whole thing either when
I'm in the middle of it.
SMITH: Right.
HATFIELD: I can't get the big picture, but this year we had fewer
stallions and we had, just had enough people to get the job done.
01:31:00
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: Uh, now we do have two people running stallions. One goes and
gets while the other ones in the breeding shed and then he may turn one
out and then this guy brings it in. So occasionally there was a guy
standing there, but he did have a role um, but when we had, when the
barns were full and I had a lot of people I watched.
SMITH: Yeah.
HATFIELD: And when I was at Gainsborough they wanted me to watch, they
wanted me to stand back and--
SMITH: --and see how things--
HATFIELD: --even though we didn't have very, even though we didn't have
very many horses we had a lot of people,
SMITH: Okay. --(laughs)--
HATFIELD: And uh, they could afford a lot of people, but this year I had
just enough people to get the job done with me entering.
SMITH: So you're pleased with your team, where it is now?
HATFIELD: Very pleased and, and this year um, I took two nights off,
yep. I, the last couple years I've taken one night off so I get, you
know, Shane was in charge on those two nights if something went wrong,
you know, he fixed it or I did get a couple phone calls. But, but,
you know, he's never gonna be a stallion manager if he can't make some
01:32:00decisions on his own and he may not do it exactly like I would but, you
know, the mare gets bred and she gets home and nobody gets hurt and,
you know, you can't be there every second.
SMITH: How longs Shane been with you?
HATFIELD: He's been here since I've been here.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: He was here, actually here a couple years before I was. He
started out as a night watchman.
SMITH: Oh, okay.
HATFIELD: And night watched the stallions and then worked on the
weekends in the barn and then gradually moved up and got into the--
SMITH: --um-hm, -----------(??)--
HATFIELD: --working days and rubbing horses and.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: And he was a, shortly after, I guess I'd been here about a
year, I moved him up into the foreman position and we worked on his
people skills and then we moved him on up. And he, he, he's a great
guy and he, he is very dedicated to Three Chimneys and we make a very
good team.
SMITH: Yeah, yeah, it makes a difference.
HATFIELD: Yep. Yep.
SMITH: Well, let's talk a little bit about the industry in general
'cause I know you're pretty passionate about the industry as a whole
and not just your job. At uh, of course it may just be because I'm
paying more attention, but it seems to me like the industry is at a
01:33:00pretty critical juncture um, and probably was before Eight Belles, Big
Brown and those issues brought things to the public attention a little
bit more. What do you see are some of the biggest challenges facing
the industry right now?
HATFIELD: I think our biggest industry's the fan base,
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: People going to the racetrack. Uh, you go to Churchill
Downs on Derby Day and you can't move, if you go to Churchill Downs on
a Wednesday?
SMITH: Yeah.
HATFIELD: There's not very many people there. If you go to Turfway
Park, there's not very many people there. Uh, I think we, we missed
the boat. Uh, NASCAR got a lot--we thought people would always want to
go to the races, we don't need to advertise. And you look at the job
that NASCAR does?
SMITH: Yeah.
HATFIELD: Uh, I think we missed the boat; we lost a lot of people to
NASCAR.
SMITH: Um-hm.
HATFIELD: Um, they're very much fan oriented. Uh, also they have
01:34:00drivers that are there all the time I think that if we were smart we'd
focus more on the jockeys in the public eye.
SMITH: Um-hm.
HATFIELD: You know, very rarely do you have a horse unless he's a
gelding or Curlin which they can't retire--
SMITH: --yeah--
HATFIELD: --run much beyond their four year old year. They're too,
they're too valuable, uh, you know, you can't insure them for what
they're worth, what if they get hurt--
SMITH: --yeah--
HATFIELD: --you know. Uh, and the jockeys are there for years and years
and years.
SMITH: Yeah, and they have some pretty interesting stories.
HATFIELD: And they do have some interesting stories and most of them are
good people with a, you know, a lot to say, they're very good athletes.
Uh, you know, Pat Day, I mean, when you go to Keeneland how many of
you bet on Pat Day?
SMITH: Right.
HATFIELD: They bet on Pat Day every race because Pat Day was Kee-, you
know, was Keeneland's jockey and people knew him and they--he signed
01:35:00autographs and he's very approachable.
SMITH: Um-hm.
HATFIELD: Actually he met my little sister. I mean, he came out and met
her and talked to her, shook her hand--
SMITH: --yeah--
HATFIELD: --and uh, I mean, he's a very wonderful person. I think the,
the catastrophic injury problem is a big problem and I think that they
were really fast on polytrack, um
SMITH: --too fast--
HATFIELD: --changing, there's a lot less maybe catastrophic injury, but
there's a lot more soft tissue injury. They've completely changed the
way that a horse--when they land their foot they don't slide in it,
they stick. For California to go ahead and say it's a good idea to
change everything to polytrack, they had too, to a synthetic surface I
think maybe was a mistake. Uh, --
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --That's a personal opinion, obviously that's what this is
all about.
SMITH: Oh, I've heard that from others.
HATFIELD: Um
SMITH: I read that.
HATFIELD: And uh, I mean, I think steroids because they've been in the
01:36:00public eye with the bicyclers or the athletes or um, you, the baseball
players. Steroids aren't illegal in the Thoroughbred business.
SMITH: Right.
HATFIELD: They're not doing anything illegal giving a horse steroids.
Is it good for 'em ,is it bad for 'em, does it make it better, but
it's a level playing field. It's not that somebody's trying to hide
that they're giving Big Brown steroids. If you, I think if you had
looked at the horses in that field--
SMITH: --right--
HATFIELD: --probably three quarters of them had steroids.
SMITH: Right.
HATFIELD: Eight Belles didn't break down because she had, was on
steroids and when they did the autopsy, she wasn't on steroids.
SMITH: Right.
HATFIELD: I think the, the, the, the general perception is, is, is that
the general public doesn't know.
SMITH: Right.
HATFIELD: And because we don't have a governing body with one voice,
I think that's really hard because nobody knows who's gonna say or
what they're gonna say or who's supposed to talk about it or who's not
supposed to talk about it or.
SMITH: And you get a lot of different opinions out there from industry
01:37:00leaders.
HATFIELD: And they end up talking to, to a trainer that's, you know,
shouldn't be talking to anybody.
SMITH: Um-hm, um-hm.
HATFIELD: So.
SMITH: What do you, in terms of breeding, um, now I know that you're not
into the pedigree--
HATFIELD: --(laughs)--no. Yeah.
SMITH: --you get them into the barn and you, once they're there you
breed 'em and that's that.
HATFIELD: Right.
SMITH: But uh, have you seen changes in terms of horses that, the type
of horse that is bred to another horse or from your perspective on
breeding is there a problem?
HATFIELD: I think you see a lot, I think you see a lot uh, less bone on
most horses. I mean, they're not as stout, they're, Seattle Slew with
the, you know, small cannon bones and small pasterns and thick bone,
you see a lot more delicate animals come in. Um, you see a lot more
horses that come in that are injured. Um, but the type of one horse
01:38:00being bred to the other, no. I mean what, you know, what they talked
about Eight Belles being bred, you know, four by two to Native Dancer
or whatever it was. I mean the, Anne looked at that and if you looked
at the horses in that field I think six of the horses in that field had
closer breedings than Eight Belles did to Native Dancer so, you know--
SMITH: --now Eight Belles was bred here right?
HATFIELD: Um-hm. She was bred here. Um-hm, we own her mother. Um.
SMITH: Three Chimneys owns the mother?
HATFIELD: In partnership with someone else. So.
SMITH: That had to be hard.
HATFIELD: Yeah it was and, you know, but, I mean, she was certainly,
the, we know her mother much better than we knew her. I mean she was
here, we prepped her for a yearling sale, we sold her.
SMITH: Right. Right.
HATFIELD: You know. --(coughs)-- It's not like she was our back yard
pet.
SMITH: Right.
HATFIELD: And that's another misconception sometimes um, with people.
01:39:00Um, so, you know, I can't say that --I think the elective surgeries
that we're doing on the horses, the parosteal scrapings, the screws and
wires--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --are, are changing a lot because people don't know what that
horse was predisposed to
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: Because that's not really what they would look like if you
hadn't done that.
SMITH: Um-hm.
HATFIELD: And I think that's very hard on them, on the industry, I think
that's very hard on--
SMITH: --from a breeding prospective--
HATFIELD: --from a breeding prospective.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: It was very, you know, Bob Baffert talked about Real Quiet
about how he had had, you know, screws and wires on both legs and so
when you watched him walk you didn't know if that was really the way he
walked so how do you know what kind of mare to breed him to or what his
offspring are gonna do.
SMITH: Um-hm.
HATFIELD: Until you get enough on the ground that, you know, wow he's
always gonna throw a horse that turns out or he's gonna throw an offset
knee or--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --because you don't really know what he looks like.
SMITH: Um-hm. Now uh, Three Chimneys' of course is in the news with
01:40:00Big Brown.
HATFIELD: Um-hm.
SMITH: And uh, it's far too soon you don't have him I know, this is a,
there's controversy surrounding all of that but uh, you excited about
getting him
HATFIELD: Very, very excited. And I think that, you know, he's racing
this weekend and I think if he comes back to his form hopefully it will
be about Big Brown again and it will be not about Dick Dutrow and not
about Michael Iavarone and not about steroids. You know, it'll be about
the horse and that's really what it's all about. Um, it's a, and he's
a great horse. I mean, you look at all the things he did that no, you
know, he's only the fifth undefeated Kentucky Derby winner in history.
SMITH: Um-hm.
HATFIELD: He, he's, nobody's ever won from the twentieth post since 1875
or whatever it was. I mean, he's done a lot of things that make him
a, a very exceptional racehorse and I think people forgot about that.
They were so involved in all the other garbage that they forgot about
01:41:00what kind of horse he was.
SMITH: And it has, if you don't win the Triple Crown then.
HATFIELD: Yeah, it's a, he's an amazing horse and he has amazing turn of
foot. When you saw him pull away from those horses in the Preakness,
when you saw all the things that Kent Desormeaux asked him to do that
he did willingly--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --and didn't lose his head about it.
SMITH: Um-hm.
HATFIELD: Uh, I think he's an exceptional athlete.
SMITH: Now if things go as planned he would be here after this year?
HATFIELD: After the Breeders Cup.
SMITH: After the Breeders Cup.
HATFIELD: Um-hm. So he should be here, I'd say the first week in
November probably.
SMITH: So would you start breeding, I mean, just in a general schedule,
I mean, I'm not ---------(??)
HATFIELD: General schedule we won't do anything to him, we'll let him
down for a month or so.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: Um, you have to get fertility insurance in place, you have to
do a lot of things before you can start breeding him--
SMITH: --okay--
HATFIELD: --and we'd start working with him in December.
SMITH: Okay, okay. Now is he the only other stallion that's uh,
scheduled to come in?
HATFIELD: Uh, no, we'll be getting another stallion by the name of Lewis
01:42:00Michael.
SMITH: I don't know him.
HATFIELD: He's primarily a turf horse, he's a, a son of Rahy.
SMITH: Okay, so that, you're gonna have a pretty full--
HATFIELD: --we'll be twelve.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: Be twelve and you never know, we may have a, more, more, you
know --(both laugh)--they're always working, it's always, you know,
looking for the next up and coming star so.
SMITH: When's the opportunity, right?
HATFIELD: Right, we still have another, you know, three or four months
of horse, of racing and Saratoga and Del Mar and, you know, those,
Keeneland in October and so you never know what star might come up.
And I mean, you know, John Hamilton and Jason Litt and Case and Robert
and Lincoln Collins and, they're always looking for the next up and
coming young horse. I mean, that's their, that's really their job is
to go out there and not only recruit mares to come here, but to, to
look for stallion prospects.
SMITH: Um-hm. Well that's what this place was built on right? The idea
of being a stallion, is it a stallion boutique?
HATFIELD: They didn't really stand stallions until Robert had been here
about ten years before he stood our first stallion.
01:43:00
SMITH: Okay, okay. Now I'll ask him some of those questions when I,
when I see him. --(Hatfield laughs)--Um, I want to take you back to
one thing we've uh, didn't talk about and then I'll let you, let you
get done here. Uh, vets that you've worked with over the years, now I
know that you say that they're not that involved in the stallion barn
and of course um, you've got a vet on site here but uh, over the years
who are some of the, the vets that you've worked with, that you've?
HATFIELD: You know, I think probably um, a Dr., Dr. Michael Osborne
who worked with me at, at North Ridge was a, was a wonderful person,
you know, as far as his vets skills I, I, you know. Um, Dr. Larry
Bramlage, Dr. Doug Byers--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --Dr. Dave Fishback. Uh, you know Larry, --(coughs)--Larry
01:44:00and Doug were both still um, teaching when I first met them and they
would come down on special things that somebody had called them in to
come down and look at, --(clears throat)--excuse me, and, you know,
they're just such, not only are they great veterinarians that they're
great people, they're very much--I mean, I was a groom and I would ask
them questions and they would be happy to answer and, you know, they
were never short, short with me they always were more than happy to
help and we're still good friends. I mean, I looked at the resume I
gave you and my references are Doug Byers and Larry Bramlage --(both
laugh)--. So uh, uh. And Dr. Alex Harthill um, just so happened that
he, my husband was working for ABC Sports and we were in interviewing
him and I happened to go with my husband, it was at Dr. Harthill's
office in Louisville. Went in and he asked me what I was doing and I
said well, you know, we lost, North, I was working at North Ridge, but
01:45:00North Ridge was getting to close, they were selling out and he said, "
Well, you know, I think there's a job that might be coming available,
let me call about it and I'll have him call you." And two days later I
got a call from Calumet.
SMITH: Well that's pretty quick work.
HATFIELD: So, yeah it was very interesting, I mean, and, and really
didn't know Dr. Harthill very well and just chatting with him that
small amount of time--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --uh, you know, obviously he liked something and it, it opened
up a huge door for me.
SMITH: Did you get to know him more after that, did you work?
HATFIELD: A little bit, he would come occasionally, we had a, at Calumet
there was a surgery unit and he would come occasionally and do some
surgeries on the race horses or just come by, he and, and J. T. were
friends and so I saw him occasionally.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: And Dr. Dave Fishback that does the broodmare work at,
at Gainsborough. You know, I worked for a man over there um, Ian
Wiedersheim who--
SMITH: How do you spell that because I think you mentioned it last time?
01:46:00
HATFIELD: Its I-A-N and Wiedersheim I'd have to look it up for you
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: I can find something that had his name on it.
SMITH: I can do that. But the first name is I-A- N.
HATFIELD: Yeah, yeah, you would say Ian but its Ian was how he
pronounced it.
SMITH: Okay.
HATFIELD: He was pretty tough, but, you know, I never saw Dr. Fishback
lose his temper with him, I never saw him, you know, get upset. I mean
Ian would throw things down the isle and he would cuss and scream and
tore cabinets off of shelves and, you know, doors off of cabinets and--
SMITH: --my goodness--
HATFIELD: and uh, yeah he was, he was quite an interesting fellow. He
was very organized, you know, and a good, you know, had a lot of good
qualities but, but Dr. Fishback would, you know, never saw him upset.
He would come back at night and palp the mares for Zilzal and he's
still over there now doing, doing, doing the work and he was there,
you know, for a long time he didn't use an ultrasound for, for doing,
01:47:00looking at follicles and things like that, he would do preg check,
but. He's just a wonderful, wonderful man, his wife's going through a
second bout of breast cancer right now.
SMITH: Oh, that's tough.
HATFIELD: But he's a, he's a, wonderful veterinarian.
SMITH: Have you seen the veterinarians become more involved in general
in the industry since the 19, the early 80's?
HATFIELD: I think they are, I think with the, you know, the onslaught of
integrity task force and, you know, medications um, I think they are.
Larry Bramlage being the on call veterinarian for, you know, the horse
racing I think has really brought the veterinarians to the forefront.
And he does such a good job of doing that. And I think they are more
involved um, just because, you know, we need some expertise.
SMITH: Right.
HATFIELD: We can't, you know--and people listen to those people that
have those letters behind their names --(laughs)--.
SMITH: Yes they do, yes they do. Okay um, I'm sure there's some stories
01:48:00I haven't asked you and if you think about them um, since I'm gonna be
coming back around to do, to do some more interviews with some people
around here--
HATFIELD: --okay--
SMITH: --if you think of something. Um, but a couple kinda final
questions and all your years in working in the industry what
accomplishments are you most proud of?
HATFIELD: Oh again, you know, certainly the Melvin Cinnamon one was
great to me, the um--and to be a, I think to be a role model for young
women is certainly wonderful to, to think about that. I think to see
the people that I've worked with do well is also a great thing. Um,
professionally certainly, you know, personally being a Big Sister
I think is very important, mentoring a young woman and helping her
through her, her young life is important. Um, I think being a good
person and, and showing that to other people in the industry and out
of the industry is, is im-, is important. I mean I, I always, I mean,
01:49:00I'm a truth teller. People don't ever ask me what I, if, you know,
if you don't want to know what I think please don't ask me, you know,
--(Smith laughs)--and if you don't want to know the truth don't ask
me. Sometimes that gets, people don't like that but that's, you know,
that's my nature.
SMITH: Well that's true.
HATFIELD: And, you know, my father always said that, you know.
SMITH: Um-hm. In all the, the choices you, you've made in the industry
is there anything you would have done differently?
HATFIELD: Oh I'm sure there was, but you know if I did it I wouldn't
be where I am. Um, you know, would I have made, liked to go to vet
school? Sure, and, but would I be where I am, would I know the people
I know, would I, you know, would I be married to Greg. Probably not if
I'd done something different, you know, I wouldn't be where I am so I
don't regret anything. I think that's a waste of time.
SMITH: Um-hm.
HATFIELD: Um, so, no, I mean, I've worked for some great people, met a
lot of great people, been around a lot of really good horses and uh, I
01:50:00wouldn't, I don't think I'd change anything.
SMITH: So I think I may already know the answer since we've talked about
this, what have you enjoyed the most?
HATFIELD: Oh gosh, through all the years I mean, you know, I mean, I
love working with horses. I mean that's why I do what I do. I love
being around 'em. Uh, I love the people, I mean, I've made a lot of
good friends. I knew absolutely nobody when I moved to Kentucky and,
you know, I've made life long friends here.
SMITH: Yeah.
HATFIELD: I mean, my best friend uh, is in Massachusetts now, doesn't
have anything to do with the horse business. So, I mean, certainly,
you know, meeting people and making good friends and, and being around
some good horses and, and hopefully helping those horses too--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --I mean, I think that's important. I'm, my father was a good
horseman and I think he taught me a lot of good horsemanship skills--
SMITH: --um-hm--
HATFIELD: --and I think that makes a difference, it's not the biggest
strongest person that's always the best horseman.
SMITH: Yeah. --(Hatfield laughs)--Okay, well we'll, we'll end with
01:51:00that then.
HATFIELD: Okay.
SMITH: And thank you. I know this has taken a lot of your time.
[End of interview.]