00:00:00 UNKNOWN MALE: --done that before.
PARKER BEAM: --yeah--
UNKNOWN MALE: -- ----------(??).
DIXIE HIBBS: This is Dixie Hibbs interviewing Parker Beam on August 28,
19--2013 for the Kentucky Bourbon Tales Oral History Project of the University
of Kentucky [Louie] Nunn Center for Oral History. That's a long title for a project--
BEAM: --right--
HIBBS: --but we have a lot to cover.
BEAM: Right.
HIBBS: You've got a lot to say about that. Why, why don't you tell us some of
your, uh, memories of your younger years, when you grew up with your dad and
grandfather in the, in the distilling industry.
BEAM: Well, my grandfather, which is a brother to Jim Beam, which was, uh, the,
uh, person I was named after, was my grandfather. Uh, his name was William
Parker. So, in order to get the Parker in, and my father's name was Earl, so I
am Earl Parker Beam. So, as, uh, as I recall, I remember going to Jim Beam's
00:01:00house when I was young with my grandfather and my father. And then they would
go out on rides. And Dad would be the chauffeur. And they would, uh, ride
around. And of course, they'd always take a bottle with them to, you know, to,
to make the ride go more smoothly. So, in the meantime as they were riding, if
they saw somebody that looked like would enjoy taking a drink out of their
bottle, they would stop and, and pass the bottle around, so I've been told. I
didn't always get to go on the rides though. (Hibbs laughs) So anyway, one of
00:02:00their favorite spots was, to ride was that they would go over to Fort Knox. And
my father would drive and they'd see certain folks, soldiers walking on the, on
the, uh, I guess, posts there. And they would offer them a drink and make sure
they recognized that it, it was Jim Beam Bourbon. (Hibbs laughs) So that's
some of the tales that, that I remember Dad talking about, uh, and Grandfather
about Jim Beam. Uh, then, uh, I guess getting back to, at my part in Heaven
Hill, I followed my dad around there. I believe he came from Beam to Heaven
Hill in 1946. So, uh, that, that time, I was probably five years old. So, I've
00:03:00been walking around here on this property ever since I was big enough to walk--
HIBBS: --right--
BEAM: --almost, and following him around somewhat. And he usually, uh, a lot
of times, after I was in school, my mother would bring me out and I'd hang
around his office. Then when I got big enough to sweep the floors, he would
have me clean the office. So I'd go, go from there to following everybody else
around the distillery. So, in order to get paid for doing some work, they had
these, uh, what they called corn cleanings that they screened that, all the
00:04:00grain that came in. And most of it was corn. And the cleanings, they would pay
me out that, that, uh, that proceeds of the corn cleanings, which I think at the
time they were selling it for fifty cents a bag, so they would have like three
bags a day. So I'd get a dollar and a half a day for my work. So, anyway, uh,
then onto, out of high school, I helped build one of the, one of these
warehouses like we're in today, uh, until I was old enough to go to work in the
distillery. So, I was eighteen at the time when I went in the plant. And of
course, here I am, fifty-four years later almost still here, so it's been my
00:05:00whole life.
HIBBS: Well, some, some might say well that's very little ambition to stay
where you started, but in your case, you came from the bottom up, I mean,
sweeping the office floor, to now telling everybody what to do.
BEAM: Well, yeah, uh--
HIBBS: --yeah (laughs)--
BEAM: --it's been a long journey. You wonder where it has, how it's all
transpired over the years. It's, uh, it's been, uh, everything from, like you
said, sweeping the office floors to scrubbing the mash cookers, to helping roll
some barrels at times--
HIBBS: --right, yeah--
BEAM: --loading trailers. And so I've, I've pretty well run the whole gamut of
everything that goes on. Uh, that may even not been the case of a lot of people
that didn't get those kind of opportunities, you know, in their lifetime. It's
00:06:00hard for them to be able to do--
HIBBS: --right, yeah--
BEAM: --all those tasks today.
HIBBS: Well, when you became a distiller, and the distiller, I guess, is when
you actually took the ingredients and combine them and cooked them, and the
whole process of distilling, that's when you went into the uh, the still house
there. Uh, was that your choice or was that just your destiny? Was this what
your father wanted you to do?
BEAM: Well, it was my choice. Um, you know, uh, I guess, uh, I could have, you
know, I ventured off and did, dabbled in a few other things at times, but, uh,
it was sort of, you know, something I was destined to do and I realized what an
opportunity it was. And, uh, I just knew I could, I could be good at it and
00:07:00it's something I felt like that I wanted to prove at the time. You know, it's,
uh, one of those things that, uh, you follow in your father's footsteps. But,
you know, it's, it's one of those things that he can be very helpful with. But,
you know, you have to really accomplish everything on your own, you know, to
be-, become a master distiller.
HIBBS: Was he termed a "master distiller" when he was here or was that a term
people used?
BEAM: Uh, it was, it was later in years. He, when he actually was hired here,
I'm sure the term "master distiller" wasn't very prevalent like it is today.
HIBBS: Um-hm.
BEAM: Uh, it was probably just, "He's the distiller in Heaven Hill," or, and
you know, that distillery--
00:08:00
HIBBS: --right, um-hm--
BEAM: --Beam, or ever where, you know.
HIBBS: The, um, the role of the distiller, of course, is to produce a product
that people will buy. And, uh, when you're, what is the role of the yeast and
the corn, what the importance of those materials that you're putting together?
What do you think maybe is the, is there one that's--
JOANNA HAY: --can we just pause this for one minute?
[Pause in recording.]
HAY: Are you ready, Dixie?
HIBBS: Um-hm.
HAY: Alright.
HIBBS: Um-hm, sure. Parker, when you are, um, creating this wonderful products
you do, you know, you're using grains and you're using yeast and personal
expertise. But of the grains and the yeast, what, what difference does it make?
Can you just go buy anything you want there or um, which is the most important
maybe in trying to--
BEAM: --well, they're all important when you're make, trying to make the best
product that, that's possible. As I always say it, you can't jeopardize one
phase of it versus, you know, the other phase.
00:09:00
HIBBS: Um-hm.
BEAM: You, you have to have everything to the highest quality standard. From
the grains to the yeast, to the mash cooking of the grains, to the distillation,
fermentation, it, it all has to go hand in hand. So, you start off with number
one: grains that you select. You have a standard that you like to see in the or
the grain that you buy. And then you have to cook it, uh, and mill it to your
standard. Everybody's got a little different opinion on how to mill their
grains. The old timers used to say that you didn't want to use hammer mills
00:10:00because you'd, you'd get the grain too hot. Didn't ferment right. So, they all
liked to use roller--
HIBBS: --um-hm--
BEAM: --mills at one time. Of course, I, as it's turned out, I didn't, I came
in the generation of the hammer mill, so I remember some of the old roller mills
but they were high maintenance. Matter of fact, I always thought the hammer
mills produced the best grain, say, versus what--
HIBBS: --the old timers did--
BEAM: --the old timers used to say. So, but that's, that's one aspect of the
bourbon production. Uh, then you have to have the right cooking--
HIBBS: --um-hm--
BEAM: --temperatures, which enter into the production. Uh, everybody's
00:11:00probably, that varies from distiller to distiller, what they like in how long
they cook their grains, when they enter certain grains in the process. So, I
always had my own thoughts on that. And I, I did it the way, uh, Dad probably
did it, uh, 98 percent of the way it was done. But I did vary it somewhat. Uh,
but then you get into distillation and fermentation of the grains. Uh, so you
have to ferment them anywhere from three-days to seven-day periods. Um,
there's, uh, some thoughts that maybe three days is not as good as seven, but we
00:12:00ran both, so.
HIBBS: Um-hm.
BEAM: Uh, I always thought there wasn't that much variation as long as you get
the proper fermentation temperatures. Uh, so anyway, um, there's a, there's a
big variation in the thinking of what it takes to make good bourbon amongst
different distillers. As I said, most master distillers have their own way of
doing it, uh, that they like to produce those different products. They're all
good. I always thought mine was a little better than maybe some of the rest of
them, but they're all good though. Uh, I don't think anybody ever made any bad
bourbon around that I knew of--
HIBBS: --yeah--
BEAM: --anyway. So, anyway, uh, they're very important. At, at every step, it
00:13:00has to be precision and quality. You have to always keep that in mind. As I've
said, everything that runs off the still today, you never know where it's going
to wind up, so you can't jeopardize that quality standard from day-to-day, uh,
because it's going to be in a premium eighteen years from now, twelve years from
now, maybe even twenty to twenty-one years. So, you never know where it's going
to wind up.
HIBBS: Right. So the barrel's sitting right beside us there, that can actually
still be here in twenty years?
BEAM: Right.
HIBBS: And, uh, so you, uh, the process is creating and protecting it, aging
00:14:00it, and, uh, I say protecting it, but, um, acknowledging that your project has,
is special enough that you're going to take care of it--
BEAM: --well, you, you know--
HIBBS: --market it--
BEAM: --the environment you put that barrel in has a lot to do with the quality.
HIBBS: Um-hm.
BEAM: Uh, that's what they always said about Kentucky. You had the right
climate for aging--
HIBBS: --right--
BEAM: --good bourbon. You had the cold enough winters and the hot summers and
the spring and fall variations. So, you got great aging, you know, by the
environment that we live in Kentucky. That's one of the reasons they always say
that if you can make bourbon anywhere, but if you want to sell it, you'd better
damned well sell it, make it in Kentucky.
HIBBS: Kentucky. (laughs) Oh, I can tell a reputation, uh, is the, uh, is the
00:15:00marketing tool here.
BEAM: Right.
HIBBS: Yes, uh-huh.
BEAM: And, you know, the environment, like I said, plays a big part in it,
because the whiskey goes in, the volume increases in the summer months.
HIBBS: Um-hm.
BEAM: And then as it cools down, you've got less volume, so that all interacts
with the wood in the barrel. It, volumes go up and down. So, that has a big
variation in proofs also.
HIBBS: Do you, uh, on your barrels, I'll speak a moment, um, I know that white
oak is the wood, but, uh, the degree of char, do you char the barrels in
different thicknesses?
BEAM: You can. Uh, we always use what they, pretty well is a standard char--
HIBBS: --um-hm--
BEAM: --uh, that's, that we call a Number 3 Char.
00:16:00
HIBBS: Okay.
BEAM: Now, I think you can over-char the heads also. You get a lot of warpage
and leakage when you over-char the head of a barrel. We say that, you know.
But that's usually left up to the, the barrel producer.
HIBBS: Producer(??).
BEAM: And if they, uh, see that, you know, you're getting, uh, X number of
barrels with a lot of warpage and a lot of leakage in the head, they pretty
well, you know, uh, come in and inspect those barrels and they know that maybe
they got a little too much heat on that.
HIBBS: On it.
BEAM: Yeah.
HIBBS: Let's take a break, that truck is right--
BEAM: --yeah.
HIBBS: Okay, sorry. You can tell I, I'm already trending to take charge and
that's bad. I'm sorry if it--
BEAM: --yeah, I was--
00:17:00
HIBBS: --I can already--
HAY: --that's fine--
BEAM: --I was watching those--
HIBBS: --I know--
BEAM: --a while ago, I thought, I hesitated, I thought--
HIBBS: --no, I think you're, you're doing fine on that, but I, I could see that
one was, when it shot down another gear, I knew it was going to get louder.
BEAM: Yeah.
HIBBS: Yeah.
BRITTANY ALLISON: Dixie, are you going to ask about the sweet spot--
HIBBS: --yes, I am--
ALLISON: ------------(??)--
HIBBS: --I'm thinking that very--
ALLISON: -- ----------(??).
HIBBS: I know, I was getting there on the, uh, because part of what, um, okay.
Um, talking about the barrels and the aging here, these warehouses are seven
stories high and, and pretty far wide. You know, I'm not sure if there are
twenty thousand barrels in here, or fifty--
BEAM: --but well, there, there's a variation. The newer, we've been
fifty/sixty-thousand barrels.
HIBBS: Yes.
BEAM: But most of the warehouses, what, that we have on this premise and the
other warehousing, uh, location, most of those are twenty-thousand barrels,
seven-rick high warehouse. Seven stories--
00:18:00
HIBBS: --seven stories, right--
BEAM: --three ricks.
HIBBS: Yeah. Three barrels to a story.
BEAM: Right.
HIBBS: As far as height.
BEAM: Yeah.
HIBBS: Yeah, I know that you have your favorite areas of the warehouse, or I've
been told that, I say I know. But when you go to choose, uh, your, the best
product that you have from a warehouse, is there a particular spot that you know
to go to?
BEAM: Well, I always like to select the premium barrels, uh, that go into some
of the single-barrels and small-batch collections that we have, uh, from the
fourth floor to the seventh floor. That usually gives you a little higher proof
and you've, that's what they call the sweet spot in those--
HIBBS: --um-hm--
BEAM: --floors as, uh, they're, uh, they're where you find the most
00:19:00interacting-, acting with the wood--
HIBBS: --um-hm--
BEAM: --as it, as it goes up in the floor height, uh, you get more heat.
HIBBS: Heat up, um-hm.
BEAM: So you get more contraction and expansion with the wood. So that's where
the, that term comes with sweet spot. And you usually get a little more airflow.
HIBBS: Right.
BEAM: So all that works hand-in-hand to, and the, and the aging process.
HIBBS: Well, when you go to choose these, uh, do you do it on the basis of
your, your personal palate or do you do it scientifically? Do you take a sample
and test it? How, how do you know what's in that barrel?
BEAM: Well, you know, uh, when you goes those floors that, you know, and your
certain warehouse that you've, uh, been able to locate your, to your liking and
00:20:00your palate, so it's not anything scientific. What you do, you, you go to those
and sample them at barrel proof. When you roll them out, they're, uh, they're
at barrel proof. And when you sample them and when you can taste that barrel
proof, it sometimes will vary from 135 to 145, maybe. So, but when you get
those kind of barrels to your liking, and they, uh, finish well on the palate.
And so, you go, say, "We'll go with that one," you know. So that's probably
about as scientific as it gets, as far as I'm concerned. And then what you,
00:21:00what you hope for, you hope that a lot of people will agree with your likings.
Now, you can't win them all, but hopefully you'll get a big percentage to agree
with your tastes.
HIBBS: Well, I think that's one of the, uh, wonderful things about the bourbon
industry is that if you like bourbon at all, you want to taste other people's.
Now everybody has their favorite--
BEAM: --right--
HIBBS: --but you're going to go and taste others. And over time, your taste
buds change, so maybe ten years ago you had a favorite and now it's another, uh,
product and all. So, uh, when you are producing something unique, and which I
consider bourbon unique to Kentucky and to, and, uh, the same way with, uh, your
ability to discern that this is the spot to get the product. And then, of
course, the marketing, there's so much that has changed since you first got into the--
00:22:00
BEAM: --right--
HIBBS: --distilling industry. But what would you think might be the biggest
change in the distilling and producing part of it?
BEAM: What I found out over the years, following in my father's footsteps and
being able to carry on that tradition and be able to maintain the same quality
standards over the years, uh, has been able, uh, what you've been called upon to
do, in, in my experience as a master distiller, is be able to grow the volumes
that we have to produce today and not let, not jeopardize that quality--
HIBBS: --right--
BEAM: --standard. You have to keep that in mind that you have to up that
quality. And I mean, up that volume--
HIBBS: --volume--
BEAM: --and be able to grow the, have maintain the same quality.
00:23:00
HIBBS: That, that would be quite--
BEAM: --now, that--
HIBBS: --a challenge--
BEAM: --that's quite a, quite the thing I've faced over the years, as a, as the
volumes have, you know, that you're asked to produce today are much more greater
than my father and his father, and so on.
HIBBS: What do you think about, um, the, uh, the single barrel or the concept
of the select whiskeys? We were talking about choosing them from the warehouse.
But, uh, this isn't just a purely market thing; it's more of a, um,
distinctive, um, taste or a, a way of taking, uh, the very best of your product
of your distillation and offering it at a premium, but also, uh, saying, "I
stand, I put my name behind this." Putting your name on, on a brand is pretty
important, yeah?
BEAM: Right, uh, that's when I really, uh, came, you know, to realize how
00:24:00important the role master distiller's been. Because when you pull that one
barrel out and then you, you know, you sample that barrel. So, it has to be
your liking. And like I said before, hopefully it'll agree with enough people
that they'll also, uh, like--
HIBBS: --like it--
BEAM: --your choosing of that barrel. So that's part of the, but you know,
getting back the, the recognition, you really put your name on the line and your
profession and what you've been able to accomplish when the, the, everybody
samples that single-barrel product.
HIBBS: Right.
BEAM: That's when they really came in the recognition of the master distillers,
00:25:00I said, which was back about, we had the first vintage I think in [19]86.
HIBBS: Gosh.
BEAM: So.
HIBBS: Yeah.
BEAM: At, at that point, you were just sort of made whiskey and that's what you
did every day. You know, you didn't get much recognition except--
HIBBS: --sure--
BEAM: --yield-wise that, that's what you were based on or looked at the quality
and the yield you could produce.
HIBBS: Right. Historically, uh, the 1800s, when the whiskeys were
produced--now I'm going back to the name again, because, uh, as a historian, I
always am looking for connections, the past to present. And, uh, your last name
is part of it: the Beam legacy of all the different family members over the
00:26:00years that produced whiskey. But also those that put their name on it, uh, it
was an honor and it was a sign that you stood behind it. And that's where we
are today, again, with your name on the whiskey. Um, marketing has changed a
lot since you started.
BEAM: Right.
HIBBS: Uh, and you as a master distiller are part of that marketing. How many
countries have you been to, uh, traveling and marketing?
BEAM: Well, I, I haven't been to many. Uh--
HIBBS: --you haven't been to many? Okay.
BEAM: Yeah, that, yeah, I, not like a lot of them have.
HIBBS: Okay.
BEAM: You know, I've been sort of the old homeboy. (Hibbs laughs) I've
traveled the US market a lot.
HIBBS: Okay.
BEAM: Uh, from Boston, Mass., on the East Coast side to, uh, to California on
the West and some things in between. But as far as traveling to a lot of
countries, I haven't.
00:27:00
HIBBS: But the areas you, did you go to whiskey competitions or did you go for
tastings, or?
BEAM: Well, we, mostly, uh, the distillers that I know usually go to a lot of tastings.
HIBBS: Tastings.
BEAM: And that's where it's been with me, going to a lot of tastings where they
were local, in Louisville, I call that local.
HIBBS: Um-hm.
BEAM: That the Bardstown, Kentucky, where we're based in or out of, and all the
way to California and some things in between, back to the East Coast--
HIBBS: --um-hm--
BEAM: --New York and Boston and those areas.
HIBBS: Do you like that part?
BEAM: Yeah, I always enjoyed it. Uh, you get, uh, meet a lot of people. And
then you get their reaction. As I said, you know, you have to, hopefully, a lot
00:28:00of people will have the same taste that you've been, that you have acquired and
like the product that you have chosen. So, so that's one way of getting that,
you know, reaction--
HIBBS: --reaction, right--
BEAM: --at those tastings.
HIBBS: Um-hm.
BEAM: I always say, I, when I pour somebody a, some product, I always said,
"Now what do you think, you know?"
HIBBS: Yeah.
BEAM: I try to look them in the eye. And I said, "Let that finish on your
palate. Then you tell me, you know, what you"--
HIBBS: --yeah--
BEAM: --"think. You know, I said, "Good or bad, I'm here to hear that."
HIBBS: Hear that, yeah. Well, that brings up a question that's in my mind and
I hope you don't mind me asking. But when you have guests in your house, which
of your favorites do you serve them?
BEAM: Well I always like our single barrel. Uh, Evan Williams Single Barrel's--
HIBBS: --Single Barrel--
BEAM: --always been a very much of a favorite of mine. And as I've said at the
00:29:00tastings, I don't care how much you want to spend on a bottle of bourbon, if
you, you can't buy a better bottle than that one. I know the ingredients that
went in it. I know the aging process it went through. So there's been no
jeopardizing quality whatsoever that, that went in that bottle. So, that's kind
of my favorite that, you know--
HIBBS: --how--
BEAM: --I enjoy--
HIBBS: --how long have you all been producing Evan Williams?
BEAM: It really started off as a brand that, that, uh, they resurrected from somewhere.
HIBBS: Um-hm.
BEAM: And it had Dad's name on it--
HIBBS: --oh--
BEAM: --on the bottle. It had the Evan Williams label in, in bold letters.
00:30:00Then it had my fifth generation, I guess, uh, master distiller, his, uh, his
signature down in smaller letters on the bottle. It, uh, told the quality
standard, I guess--
HIBBS: --um-hm--
BEAM: --and what generation he was as a master distiller at the time. So, I
guess this isn't taught now in school. But anyway, you can cut this out if you
think it necessary. Beam threatened a lawsuit, see, at the time. So, anyway,
Heaven Hill was very much smaller than Beam.
HIBBS: Um-hm.
BEAM: And Max's father said "Earl, we're going to have to take that name off."
Said, "It can't be on the front label of a bottle, your name."
00:31:00
HIBBS: Your name, huh.
BEAM: "Beam has threatened a lawsuit." So, said, "We don't have enough money
to fight Beam." So, they pulled it off. So the label just kind of laid around,
died at that point. So, anyway, uh, I guess, uh, they, uh, resurrected it. Uh,
I forgot now what year--
HIBBS: --[nineteen] seventies, [nineteen] eighties--
BEAM: --back in the seventies--
HIBBS: --seventies, something like that--
BEAM: --I guess late seventies.
HIBBS: I think so.
BEAM: And then it really bloomed in the eighties, I guess, so that was kind of,
and of course it's a black label. But they changed the label. I believe that
was like in a, uh, I'm trying to think when they first came out. It was like in
00:32:00a burgundy color or something like that, and gold letters. And so, they changed
to a black label with white letters. But anyway, that's where it took off. And
matter of fact, uh, it was hard to supply the brand. But with the inventories
we had at the time, uh, at the, it just took off and been going ever since. Now
it's the number-two-selling bourbon in the US.
HIBBS: Hmm. Goodness, goodness It's how old? How many years old is that?
BEAM: Well, it's a, we don't state--
HIBBS: --oh, sorry about that--
BEAM: --any age anymore.
HIBBS: Should have known.
BEAM: We, uh, we pulled the age statement off, but it's, uh, it's at least five
to six a blend of--
HIBBS: --okay--
BEAM: --bourbons--
HIBBS: --right--
BEAM: --and some eight year old in there. Very little eight, though, I think.
00:33:00
HIBBS: Yeah, that way.
BEAM: Since our inventories have been depleted--
HIBBS: --depleted--
BEAM: --somewhat, you know, with the vibes that we've, that growth we've seen case-wise.
HIBBS: The, um, in your time here at Heaven Hill, uh, what was probably the
biggest challenge, um, for you to overcome, you know, besides creating enough
volume, but, uh, I know you had the ups and downs here with, you know, the fire
and, uh, the, and just the emerging markets. You have to plan so far ahead.
You put your whiskey in here and it's years before you take it out. That
planning ahead, now, is that your decision or is that a combination of you and--
BEAM: --well, a combination of, I guess, myself and marketing, you know. Uh, I
always, you know, looked to them to give me some input into the volumes we need
00:34:00to produce. Uh, that was something that, you know, you had to try to wring out
so much out of the, the operation every day. Uh, I always thought I could get
more out of it than most--
HIBBS: --okay--
BEAM: --people could by the techniques that I used. And, uh, so, you know,
without spending a lot of money on trying to increase those volumes. But that
was somewhat of a challenge. Trying to keep up with the volumes I thought we
needed to produce and sometimes, uh, marketing had other thoughts, but I had my
own what we needed to produce sometimes and I always kind of looked at it that I
thought, I don't believe we can produce too much here, you know.
00:35:00
HIBBS: Okay.
BEAM: So I didn't, I tried to put it away as much as I thought was possible,
each and every day and each and every year.
HIBBS: Well, you must, it's almost like having a prophet or something, trying
to look far ahead, and you have, you don't have enough, uh, whatever information
you have really doesn't show the future.
BEAM: Right, right.
HIBBS: You're still just guessing on this part--
BEAM: --yeah--
HIBBS: --on this part, yeah.
BEAM: Yeah, you have to think about, you know, what, what you might anticipate,
like I said, twenty years from now--
HIBBS: --um-hm--
BEAM: --not only, most bourbons are bottled at four to five years range. And
that's a reason, uh, you know, your premiums have done so well; they're usually older--
HIBBS: --um-hm--
BEAM: --bourbons. But nothing to say that four- and five-year-old bourbons are
not good; they're just different taste-wise, you know, because they haven't been
00:36:00in that barrel as long to pick up the taste you get from that barrel.
HIBBS: From that, that one.
BEAM: But they're all good, as I've said every day, you have to have a quality
product every day you run it off that still.
HIBBS: Um-hm.
BEAM: Because you never know where it's going to wind up.
HIBBS: The, um, one other question I thought about, and your, you have the
distinction of having working for a family, uh, not a um, corp--well, it's a
corporation, but in terms of not being, uh, a widespread corporation that the
CEOs make the decisions, but a family ownership of this distillery has to have
made some difference in your ability to not only stay here, but also to, uh,
thrive, and, and, uh, continue now to be a master distiller at Heaven Hill.
BEAM: Well, I always thought I had the best of both worlds here, you know. Uh,
that, uh, I could, you know, go open the door and talk to ever who I needed to
00:37:00talk with and, and, you know, that that was part of the family. I sit in on a
lot of meetings and board meetings with the family and got the feel for what
their thoughts were over the years. And really, they, they helped shape my
ability to be the good distiller I am, I guess, uh, bragging on myself somewhat
and giving them a lot of credit too. Uh, as I've said before, they probably saw
things in my, in me that I didn't even realize that I was capable of.
HIBBS: Um-hm.
BEAM: But they always had a lot of faith in me and gave me a free reign to
produce the kind of quality product I thought that I was capable of producing.
00:38:00
HIBBS: That's great.
BEAM: So that was part of the, part of the process that, that you come, when
you mesh the two families together, the Beams and the Shapira family. And you
see where it's gotten us, so, you know. That's been my thoughts that they, uh,
they were always great people to work with. And I learned a lot from them.
Especially Ed Shapira, Max's father, because he was sort of in my era. And he,
uh, he was the one I really looked to for a lot of the guidance and, and his
thought in what it took and what it was going to take in the future. So I
learned a lot from Ed Shapira.
HIBBS: There, uh, the other whiskey families, there are other parts of the Beam
00:39:00families too, but there are other families that were involved in whiskey making
here. And, uh, people often ask me things about, uh, is our, you know, are they
very competitive? And, uh, I, I am going to ask you that, but I know the
answer, but are all the, the different distillery, distillers and the families
are very competitive and how has that affected you?
BEAM: Well, they've always been very competitive, I, I guess, as far as, you
know, uh, trying to produce the best quality products. But they've always been
that close relationship that we've always had with one another that, uh, we were
able to call on, no matter what the circumstances were. And you could always
get a helping hand from them if, if need be. Now, you know, not very much of
that goes on in a lot of industries that, that you can pick up the phone and
00:40:00say, "Hey, why, I've got a problem with this kind of equipment or that. Do you
have any spare parts?" And they'd be more than glad to help you out. If not,
I've seen Carl Beam come here and help Dad work on stuff. Get his hands dirty
and tear it apart and fix it. So it's always been one of those things that it,
whether it was Booker, or who, or Jimmy Russell, you know--
HIBBS: --yeah--
BEAM: --you always knew you could call on them, and get a helping hand.
HIBBS: Hand, um, that, uh, I wonder how much of that is also the Kentucky
ideas. You know, how I think in Kentucky, we always are pretty, we're
hospitable, but we're also pretty willing to help our neighbor and others. Do
you think, uh, do you--
BEAM: --well, I think that's probably, uh, you know, camaraderie that goes into
00:41:00that as being true Kentuckians. And, you know, we always help each other no
matter what the circumstances are. So that probably plays somewhat into that.
But, uh, you know, I guess, uh, that, that's something you don't get in the
marketing end, you know.
HIBBS: Unh-uh.
BEAM: They're very competitive on that end, even though those producers are all
very close. And we'd do anything to help each other. So, I'm not sure that
pro-, it goes on in the marketing--
HIBBS: --marketing--
BEAM: --of some of our products.
HIBBS: Well, I think when you create something, which is what you've done in
distilling, you've created something from a rare products, you know, from raw
products, that you have a possession feeling about. And, uh, uh, but you also
00:42:00respect someone else who has been able to do the same thing. You have that
respect. Uh, I like to say the art and mystery of creating bourbon, because,
uh, in the old years, that's what they used to, all the apprentices, uh, that
went to work for master, uh, blacksmiths, and, uh, coppersmiths and all, they
were promised to be taught the art and mystery of whatever the thing. And in
your case, I think your father must've been the person who introduced you to
that first going. And, uh, of course, now you've introduced your son. And did
you, uh, was that a, a gentle introduction, or was it--(laughs)--was it the fact
that, uh, he had followed you in the distillery, is this what he really wanted
to do, or do you, do you know?
BEAM: Well, I think that he was sort of like me that, you know, he, uh, he
looked at it as a great opportunity that he started, that he was basically
00:43:00started like I did. Uh, he was sweeping warehouses, although they, uh, they
just had bought some warehouses that had been abandoned down at the old T.W.
Samuels operation.
HIBBS: Um-hm.
BEAM: So they had cobwebs and bird droppings and everything in them. So, in
order to get ready to use them and some repair work that had to be done, so he
got chosen for that job as one of his first jobs at Heaven Hill. So, uh, I
guess, uh, he was sort of destined. As I told somebody, they said, "Well, how
do you get to be a master distiller," at one of the tastings? And, uh, we're in
New York or California, everywhere. I said, "Well, with a name like Beam get
00:44:00your foot in the door, see."
HIBBS: Um-hm.
BEAM: I said, "You know, probably if you were a ------(??), you could probably
have been destined to be a master distiller with, with a name like Beam." So,
you know--(Hibbs laughs)--uh, and I guess he felt somewhat the same--
HIBBS: --same thing--
BEAM: --same, uh, uh, opportunity that I felt over the years.
HIBBS: Years, yeah, well, I, uh, I know the, uh, you mentioned the marketing,
and that, that to me is one of the things that has changed the most in the last
twenty years. Maybe twenty is not long enough. But, uh, my memories of early,
um, distillery activities and things go back as long as yours, though I was
never involved in it. My father, my grandfather worked--
BEAM: --right--
HIBBS: --at Heaven Hill in the 1940s--
BEAM: --right, I remember your father--
HIBBS: --yeah, yeah--
BEAM: --doing some work here--
HIBBS: --anyway, but, uh, I know that, um, there's always been marketing, but I
00:45:00think the word of mouth and, and sort of the subtle marketing that you hear
about and things, but, of course, you weren't producing the volumes then. So
now you've got warehouses, forty and fifty warehouses full of whiskey and it's
got to go somewhere. But, uh.
BEAM: You've got over a million barrels--
HIBBS: --oh, man--
BEAM: --on storage.
HIBBS: A million barrels.
BEAM: Yeah. So.
HIBBS: That way(??). And this sounds really strange, but now how do you feel
about having supervised the production of a million barrels of bourbon?
BEAM: Well--
HIBBS: --or whiskey--
BEAM: --I, one thing I always like to say about Heaven Hill, ever since the
company was formed in 1934 and produced the first barrel of whiskey, I believe
in [19]35.
HIBBS: Um-hm.
BEAM: Nineteen thirty-five, every barrel of whiskey has been made at, at Heaven
Hill Distilleries has been made by a Beam.
HIBBS: Yeah
00:46:00
BEAM: That's something that, uh, Beam can't say theirself, you know.
HIBBS: Um-hm.
BEAM: So, that's one of the things I always liked to pride our products on that
every barrel of whiskey's been made by a Beam.
HIBBS: Beam. So whiskey making's in your genes, huh?
BEAM: Evidently. (Hibbs laughs) Yeah.
HIBBS: Alright. Well, let's take a break, if you don't mind.
BEAM: Yeah.
HIBBS: Because I think, alright, I know I haven't covered everything, can you
all see something I need to cover? And am I doing what you want there, Brittany?
[Pause in recording.]
HIBBS: Uh, we're talking about um, the specialty whiskeys and the premium
whiskeys, and, and all. I know that, uh, often, you might be asked to autograph
some of those bottles. And do you know, uh, you know, how do you feel about
that? Is that something you ever expected to have to do?
BEAM: Well, I didn't expect the volume that the, that I'm expected to do.
00:47:00
HIBBS: To do.
BEAM: Uh, I've had high as sixty cases piled up at the house. They've even
brought them to the house. And I've sit, when I'd come in off the farm at half
noon, I'd have a bottle signing with Linda, uh, putting them out--
HIBBS: --putting them out--
BEAM: --and putting them back--
HIBBS: --putting them back--
BEAM: --in the cases. So we had a teamwork, a lot of teamwork going there.
Uh, that, uh, I'd sign so many, I'd say, "That's it for today. Time to knock off."
HIBBS: There you go.
BEAM: So I'd get a few more each day. Then I'd tell whoever who brought them,
"I've got them all signed."
HIBBS: There you go.
BEAM: "Now bring me some more." So, you know, that's, uh, the volume that I've
signed is sort of unbelievable to, to what I've thought I'd ever sign--
00:48:00
HIBBS: --would ever do--
BEAM: --you know.
HIBBS: Yeah. You were, uh, mentioning a story a little earlier about Max in,
um, Max Shapira and the awards, or the surprise about the whiskey winning
awards. Would you--
BEAM: --well, that was when the first single barrels that we produced, I guess
it was around [19]86 or [198]7, those barrels were put in storage. And, uh,
that's, uh, that's the way the vintage dates are.
HIBBS: Um-hm.
BEAM: That we come one with every year since those. That, and Max said, uh, I
was in the hall one day or coming down the hall, and he said, "Parker, what
about these awards that we've gotten for these single barrels that, the Evan
Williams Single Barrels?" Specifically, I guess, but the one he was referring
00:49:00to. I said, "Max, I always knew it, that we produced the best whiskey that
could be produced on the market, but now we're getting some recognition. I
didn't realize, it's not too exciting to me that I always knew that all along.
Now somebody else is agreeing"--
HIBBS: --with me--
BEAM: --"with us."-
HIBBS: There you go. That's, that sounds to me like a craftsman, like somebody--
BEAM: --yeah--
HIBBS: --yeah. You know, we, uh, we're, I've been in warehouses before, but I
have to say I've never sat in a warehouse this long. And, uh, just sitting here
and absorbing, I'm literally absorbing the alcohol in the air, the bourbon in
the air now, because, uh, this is pretty hot today.
BEAM: Yeah.
HIBBS: But it's, it's fairly cool in here, cooler than I expected. Of course,
we are listening to your trucks go up and down the road out here. Some of them
have barrels in them?
BEAM: A lot of them have barrels, and, uh, some of them have new barrels, some
00:50:00of them have new barrels, some of them have empty barrels, and some of them have
full barrels.
HIBBS: Alright.
BEAM: So, there's all different phases of the truck traffic that goes by the
warehouses and the sister(??) rooms and all that. It takes a lot of volume, uh,
of truck-wise to supply the million barrels that go in--
HIBBS: --I hear it--
BEAM: --and go out every day. So, it's, uh, it takes a lot of trucks. So
that's the reason we're hearing--
HIBBS: --a lot of--
BEAM: --a lot of--
HIBBS: --truck traffic that way--
BEAM: --truck traffic today.
HIBBS: Okay. Definitely. Well, and it's, uh, this is one of the new
warehouses, too.
BEAM: Right.
HIBBS: There's two, right?
BEAM: Right.
HIBBS: You know, the new, I think some of the traffic is for the new warehouse
that you're building.
BEAM: Right.
HIBBS: Over there(??), I knew the concrete trucks that we were hearing going
through there, so.
BEAM: Yeah.
HIBBS: Have you ever been interviewed in the warehouse before like this?
BEAM: Oh yeah--
HIBBS: --this is--
BEAM: --yeah--
HIBBS: --this is your business.
BEAM: Well, I've had a lot of, a lot of, uh, interviews in the warehouses that
00:51:00when we were tasting and--
HIBBS: --um-hm--
BEAM: --analyzing barrels, and selecting barrels and so forth and so on,
especially with the barrel thieves that--
HIBBS: --yeah, yeah--
BEAM: --that we have to have for the, uh, extraction of the product.
HIBBS: Right.
BEAM: What we call a barrel thief, that, uh, you dip down in the barrel, take
the bung out with the bung knocker, then you insert the thief, then you put that
in a glass, and then you analyze what you got out of that barrel, and hopefully
it's what you made the right selection. Usually, I like to sample out of about
three or four barrels at a time. Then make my selection, which one was maybe
the best.
00:52:00
HIBBS: Better.
BEAM: Uh, there's a lot of difference in single barrels, but even, even that
those barrels are sometimes stored side by side, there'll be slight differences.
HIBBS: Differences, hmm.
BEAM: Even produced the same day. But that's the beauty of a single barrel.
And they're all just slightly different, even though you set the profile for
what you like, they're all, you know, going to be slightly different, maybe
that, uh, the, the average consumer will probably never notice that.
HIBBS: Goodness. Oh man. You know, we've, um, in this day and age, the last
I'm going to say six years, um, the economy has caused just everybody so much
trouble, uh, with it, you know, uncertainty of it and all. But you all are
still making lots of whiskey and, and selling lots of whiskey. What do you see
00:53:00in the future? Do you see this, uh, what do you see for your, yourself and for
the future of Heaven Hill and the bourbon that you've made?
BEAM: In reference to the economy, we haven't felt that here at Heaven Hill.
Uh, as far as uh, it's, uh, our volumes have continued to grow, and grow, and
grow, uh, which, uh, we're pretty well insulated from the downturn in the
economy. And the bourbon industry as a whole, I think across the board, you'll
see that it hadn't had any effect as far as downturn, uh, with the, with the
industry as a whole. Uh, so what we see growth-wise, it's unlimited. It's,
it's such a market that it's got to be a world market now, not only a domestic
00:54:00market, which we do very well in.
HIBBS: Um-hm.
BEAM: Like I said, we're the number-two-selling bourbon in, in the industry.
So, we've, uh, we've seen that grow on the domestic side, but we've also seen a
lot of growth in, in the world markets. And that's pretty well unlimited to
what, what kind of growth we'll see in, in the future.
HIBBS: Future.
BEAM: It's just a, uh, a matter, can we keep up in the whole industry when you
see expansion after expansion--
HIBBS: --yeah--
BEAM: --every, every player in the market seems to be just trying to see how
much money they can pour in--
00:55:00
HIBBS: --yeah--
BEAM: --to meet that demand.
HIBBS: Yeah, it takes a lot of faith, doesn't it, to put that kind of money out?
BEAM: Right. I guess, uh, it takes a lot of faith when you're producing a
product that, you know, that you don't know where the, what kind of volumes
you're going to see in four to five years to twenty years. It takes a lot of
faith and a lot of, a lot of good, uh, good thoughts in, into what you're
sinking into those products.
HIBBS: Yeah.
BEAM: Uh, because you never know what the economy will be, but it looks like
the, the world market's going to keep growing over the, over those years that I expressed.
HIBBS: The uh, Kentucky Bourbon Trail. You know, that's something that hasn't
been around as long as you have, but what effect do you think it's had here on
00:56:00the bourbon industry here in Kentucky?
BEAM: Well, I think it's been a boon to the industry as a whole.
HIBBS: Um-hm.
BEAM: It's, uh, it's talked about worldwide.
HIBBS: Um-hm.
BEAM: And it's, uh, it's probably going to be better than some of the Napa
Valley bourbon--or wine trails, as I might say.
HIBBS: Um-hm.
BEAM: It's, uh, it's, it's this growing. Everybody's putting a lot of money
in, all the producers are into their facilities as far as visitor centers and
everything. That those, I guess that's a, it's going to be big. No telling
where the vibes are going to be with that. It's, uh, it's sort of unbelievable
how many people have--
00:57:00
HIBBS: --come, yeah--
BEAM: --come and continued look forward to coming. And a lot of them will
repeat, I'm sure, you know.
HIBBS: Yeah. Well, you know, the Kentucky Bourbon Festival's where we get to
see what I call our "old friends," because people keep coming back and coming
back. And--
BEAM: --yeah, they just love it--
HIBBS: --they just--
BEAM: --don't they? You know--
HIBBS: --love it--
BEAM: --just keeps growing and growing--
HIBBS: --well--
BEAM: --and growing, like the industry as a whole.
HIBBS: Well, that's what, you know, if you're doing a Kentucky Bourbon
Festival, you have to age, just like the bourbon has to age.
BEAM: Right.
HIBBS: And I think over time that's what's happened. And, um, it's not that,
um, the trail to me is one of those things that, um, you put on your list to do
before you die. You know, I want to go do the Bourbon Trail. Like you say
often, if they do it, and then they bring their friends back to do it again--
BEAM: --right--
HIBBS: --because they constantly, it's intriguing, uh, I'm really uh, as a
historian, I'm really fascinated with the idea of you can walk up and talk to a
man, or the people who actually are doing all this. You're not stuck away in a,
00:58:00um, you know, in a big manufacturing facility. You actually can talk to the
people who have their hands and their palates and their marketing skills all
right there. And, uh, closeness, people like to have that ability to, to, uh,
communicate with you.
BEAM: That, see, that brings to mind what I was told, I think it was in
California one time. And I was pouring a guy a drink, see. And he said, he
looked at me, I noticed he kept looking--
HIBBS: --looking--
BEAM: --see? Kind of staring me down. And every time I'd make eye contact
with him, he'd be staring right at me. And he said, "You know," said, "You are
a real person, aren't you?"--(Hibbs laughs)--"That made this product." And I
said, "Yeah, I guess I'm about as real as they get." And, uh, he said, "And,
you know, I always thought a master distiller was some fictitious character that
00:59:00marketing came up with." And said, "I didn't think there was a real person
behind the product." But he said, "You are real, aren't you?" (Hibbs laughs)
And I said, "Yeah, I'm glad to know I am. Thank you for, for expressing that."
HIBBS: (laughs) Well, the only thing different, he could have reached out and
tweaked your nose--
BEAM: --that's right, yeah--
HIBBS: --to make sure you weren't wearing--
BEAM: --yeah--
HIBBS: --a fake wax head or something.
BEAM: Yeah.
HIBBS: Yeah, that's great. I've got one more other question here, if you don't
mind. I, your legacy, what do you consider your legacy?
BEAM: Well, I consider that as being something that I've been able to
accomplish, like I said, producing some of the world's best bourbons. Uh, I
think that's probably the, the mark of a, of the person I would like to have
01:00:00people think of me as, as being a quality person and producing the quality that
I've been able, uh, to produce over the years. And so, I guess the legacy will
follow you, you know, on the, on the quality that you were able to produce over
the years. So, I guess that's the best recognition I can have is being the distiller.
HIBBS: Okay. Is there anything else you all think about?
HAY: Can you imagine what your life would have been like with, without bourbon
in it?
BEAM: No, I really can't. (laughs) That--
HIBBS: --do you want me to ask that question?
BEAM: Yeah.
HAY: We're still rolling.
HIBBS: Oh you are? Sorry. Excuse me.
01:01:00
BEAM: Yeah, yeah. That's probably a good question. I really hadn't thought
about it too much, that it was something I, like I said, I was destined to do.
So it was the, the day I sat around and listened to uncles and, and Dad, my
father, talk. And it, it was just, been hard to believe that, that, uh, I
wasn't going to be involved some way in the, in the operation of producing
bourbon over the years. So, it's a, it's something I really hadn't thought
about. I guess that it would've been much different, I guess, if I hadn't
followed in my father's footsteps. But anyway, uh, it's, it's been a good run, so.
01:02:00
HIBBS: Don't they say that about bourbon, too?
BEAM: That's right.
HIBBS: It's been a good run.
BEAM: Right, right.
HIBBS: Yeah.
ALLISON: I think we're set.
HIBBS: Okay. Alright.
BEAM: I've, uh, talked myself deaf here.
HIBBS: Yeah, you're doing, hey, we're doing great. I just--
BEAM: --that's more talking than I've done since--
HIBBS: --that was my, my job's to make you talk, you know--
BEAM: --you know, since I've had ALS.
HIBBS: Yes, I know.
[End of interview.]
