Interview with Jennifer Martin, April 19, 2018

Partial Transcript: I am Adriana Sisko and I am here today at the Nunn Center with Jen Martin. The date is April 19th and we are doing an interview for the OutSouth Project. So thank you for joining me, Jen.

Segment Synopsis: Jennifer Martin introduces herself as a resident of Kentucky and an employee of the University of Kentucky Libraries.

Keywords: Lexington (Ky.).; Libraries and transgender people; Professional staff; Student employees; Undergraduate outreach

Subjects: Librarians; Libraries; University of Kentucky

Partial Transcript: Alright, so, before we get to the UK years, we'll get to those, uh, but first I like to start you know, chronologically at the beginning.

Segment Synopsis: Martin discusses her upbringing in Jeffersontown, Kentucky including her family's frequent attendance at the Jeffersontown Baptist Church. Martin describes her personal involvement with the church during her childhood and teenage years, as well as her relative lack of involvement in more recent years.

Keywords: Childhood; Church services; Communities; Community centers; Gay community; Girlhood; J Town; J-town; Jeffersontown (Ky.); LGBT community; LGBTQ community; Louisville (Ky.); Parents; Sisters; Southern Baptist Convention; Suburbs; Trans community

Subjects: Baptists; Children's choirs; Church music; Churches; Gender nonconformity; Handbell choirs; Music; Pianists; Religion; Sexual orientation--Religious aspects.; Suburbs; Vacation Bible schools; Women in the Southern Baptist Convention

Partial Transcript: How was your school community, like middle school, high school, what was that experience like?

Segment Synopsis: Martin discusses growing up as an effeminate child, and the reactions that other children had toward her femininity. Martin shares the experiences she had with bullying, particularly in middle school. She also discusses making a core group of friends in band that helped to protect her, as well as the ways she adjusted her external behavior in response to the bullying.

Keywords: Concert band; Denial; Femininity; Friends; Gender roles; Hiding; High schools; Mannerisms; Middle schools; Protection; Resistance; Self-definition; She-Ra

Subjects: Body language; Bullying; Bullying in schools; Dolls; Friendship; Gender identity; Marching bands; Music; Transgender people; Transgender people--Identity

Partial Transcript: When did you first apply the word 'girl' or 'woman' to yourself?

Segment Synopsis: Martin explains that she always identified strongly with other girls, and even experienced her childhood as a girl in her head. Martin discusses the ways she was able to express her femininity as a child, as well as the reactions she received from boys and girls.

Keywords: Boys; Childhood; Children; Dress up; Dress-up; Dressing up; Gender roles; Girls; Heels; High heels; Makeup; My Little Pony; Playing; Wigs

Subjects: Dolls; Female friendship; Femininity; Gender expression; Gender nonconformity

Partial Transcript: When you moved on from high school to college, how did this dynamic change or stay the same, in terms of external reactions to you?

Segment Synopsis: Martin describes the transition from high school to college. She also discusses to what degree she was closeted at the time. Martin talks about how much of an impact Matthew Shepherd's murder had on people's ability to be out. Martin also remarks on the evolution of terminology over the years surrounding gender identity, from "transsexual" to "transgender".

Keywords: "Down low"; "Transsexual"; "Transsexuals"; Closeted; Drag; Drag queens; Gender roles; High schools; In the closet; Judgment; Matthew Shepard; Nicknames; Ostracization; Out; Outness; Pejoratives; Sexuality; Terminology; Trans community; Transgender community; Undergraduate

Subjects: Coming out (Sexual orientation); Drag shows; Gay bars; Gender nonconformity on television; Online chat groups; Transgender college students; Transgender identity; Transgender people; University of Kentucky

Partial Transcript: You mentioned drag, and it seems like that was a big moment for you, of some kind of clicking.

Segment Synopsis: Martin describes how she developed her interest in the art of drag. She discusses her twenty years of doing drag, what sort of impersonation she aims for, and how she was accepted as transgender by the drag scene.

Keywords: "Fish"; "Fishy queen"; "Fishy"; "Genetic woman"; "Genetic women"; Drag; Drag queens; Lip sync; Lip syncing; Performance; Self definition; Self determination; Stage performance; Trans drag; Transgender drag

Subjects: Art; Drag shows; Female impersonators; Gay bars; Music; Popular music; Transgender artists; Transgender people

Partial Transcript: Tell me a little more about--well more like tell me everything about, um, the transition journey and the timing of that in your life.

Segment Synopsis: Martin discusses the process of coming out as transgender and going on hormones during her early twenties. In detail, Martin describes the process of informing her co-workers, informing the dean of libraries, and all the structured efforts those individuals made to assist in her workplace transition. Martin talks about the love and support she received from co-workers, the overall library system at UK, and especially the students she worked with. In addition, Martin briefly discusses dating pre-transition, and how she used to put her gender identity on hold for those relationships.

Keywords: Colleagues; Coming out (Gender identity); Coworkers; Dating; Deans; Hormone diary; Hormone journal; Hormone replacement therapy (HRT); Hormone therapy; Relationships; Students

Subjects: Internet; Libraries; Library science; Online chat groups; Transgender identity; Transgender librarians; Transgender people; Undergraduates; University of Kentucky

Partial Transcript: So, you talked about coming out at work, as trans--

Segment Synopsis: Martin talks about how before she ultimately came out as transgender, she initially came out to her family as gay. Martin describes the circumstances of what she terms her 'first coming out', her sister's reaction, and her parents' respective reactions. She also discusses what it was like to unsettle her parents' expectations of her, particularly her mother's expectations.

Keywords: Anger; Boyfriends; Dating; Fathers; Golden child; Golden children; Mothers; Siblings; Sisters; Support; Upset

Subjects: Coming out (Sexual orientation); Family; Relationships

Partial Transcript: So that was the first coming out, you phrased--

Segment Synopsis: Martin describes her ultimate coming out to her family as a transgender woman. She talks about the letter she left them, and the very different reactions her father and her mother had in response. She also talks about her sister's acceptance, the time it took for her parents to get her name and her pronouns correct, and the reactions of her other family members.

Keywords: "Given name"; Acceptance; Anger; Breakdowns; Coming out (Gender identity); Confusion; Fathers; Gender roles; Gendered titles; Hurt; Mothers; Nephews; Pain; Pronouns; Sisters; Struggle; Support

Subjects: English language--Pronoun; Family; Letter writing; Transgender identity; Transgender people

Partial Transcript: How has their, you know, meaning your parents, how has their evolution been?

Segment Synopsis: Martin describes how her parents have changed over time with regard to their stance toward her gender identity. She talks about their adjustment period, and also talks about the prevalence of expectations of instantaneous, total acceptance in the current political climate.

Keywords: Acceptance; Adjusting; Adjustment period; Change; Coming out (Gender identity); Evolving; Growing; Learning; Living openly; Love; Out; Political climate; Sensitivity; Understanding

Subjects: Family; Politics; Transgender people; Transgender people--Identity

Partial Transcript: So now we're going to move back into the library a bit.

Segment Synopsis: Martin discusses how she ended up in a career as a librarian. She talks about her passion for reading as a child and the long path that eventually led her to a career in library science, a career she hadn't anticipated.

Keywords: Colleagues; Library science programs; Readers; Reading; Student assistantship; Work hours; Working

Subjects: Libraries; Transgender librarians; University of Kentucky

Partial Transcript: Um, do you ever find yourself coming out still? Do you ever find that that comes up in conversations somehow?

Segment Synopsis: Martin discusses trying to keep her interest in drag separate from her library career. She discusses the risks involved in coming out at work.

Keywords: Librarians; Libraries; University of Kentucky

Subjects: Coming out (Gender identity); Transgender identity; Transgender people; Transgender people--Identity

Partial Transcript: You mentioned working in a bar. Which bar?

Segment Synopsis: Martin talks about her experience working at The Bar Complex and the bar's history. She mentions other bars she has worked at over the years.

Keywords: 141 (bar); Acceptance; Bars; Business owners; Downtown; Drag queens; Environment; Inclusive; Jobs; Johnny Angel's Disco; LGBTQ community; Library spaces; Parades; Safe havens; Safe spaces; Support; Transition; University of Kentucky; Welcoming; Work

Subjects: Coming out (Gender identity); Gay bars; Gay community; Lexington (Ky.).; Transgender identity; Transgender people; Transgender people--Identity

Partial Transcript: You mentioned Lexington during the eighties.

Segment Synopsis: Martin talks about how the city of Lexington has changed since the 1980s. She mentions the sodomy laws that were enforced at the time, as well as the lack of safety for transgender individuals. She talks about the progress that has been made and mentions the need to continue working for the future.

Keywords: Acceptance; Arrests; Authority; Bars; Changes; Eighties; Gay men; Lawmakers; Police; Progress; Safety; Sodomy laws

Subjects: Gay community; Gay men--Legal status, laws, etc.; Gays--Legal status, laws, etc.--United States.; Homosexuality--Law and legislation.; Homosexuality--Social aspects.; Lexington (Ky.).; Sexual minorities.; Sexual orientation.; Transgender people--Legal status, laws, etc.; Transgender people--Violence against; Transgender people.

Partial Transcript: You mentioned now a couple different communities that have been really, um, important in your life and helpful to you.

Segment Synopsis: Martin talks about her own social circle, including coworkers at her various jobs, friends in the UK opera scene, and fellow drag performers.

Keywords: Bars; Co-workers; Communities; Connections; Coworkers; Drag performers; Drag queens; Drag scene; Employment; Friendships; Jobs; LGBTQ community; Musical theatre; Opera; Relationships; Social circles; Social life; Socializing; University of Kentucky; Work

Subjects: Drag shows; Female impersonators; Lifestyles.

Partial Transcript: How would you characterize your relationship with the LGBTQ community at large?

Segment Synopsis: Martin talks about her involvement in the LGBTQ community, which she says has mostly been a passive, subversive role. She talks about the importance of visibility. She mentions some organizations and events she has been involved with.

Keywords: Activists; Advocates; African Americans; Communities; Existence; Impact; Involvement; LGBTQ community; Maids; Organizations; Passive; Philosophy; Subversive; Television; Transgender community; Transylvania University; Visibility

Subjects: Gay community; Sexual minorities--Identity.; Transgender identity; Transgender people; Transgender people--Identity

Partial Transcript: You mentioned, uh, you know, this idea of visibility briefly.

Segment Synopsis: Martin talks more about the importance of visibility, particularly in the transgender community. She talks more about talk shows featuring trans guests, particularly those that were degrading to trans people.

Keywords: Activists; Degrading; Exposure; Judgement; Laverne Cox; Representation; Talk shows; Visibility; Women of color

Subjects: Sexual minorities--Identity.; Transgender identity; Transgender people; Transgender people--Identity

Partial Transcript: My next question is leaping topics a little bit.

Segment Synopsis: Martin talks about when she first heard the word 'queer' and what it meant then. She talks about the generational divide in the conversation about reclaiming the term. She talks about other generational differences, particularly in the transgender community regarding visibility and acceptance.

Keywords: 'Deep stealth'; 'Queer'; 'Stealth'; Advisory boards; Alone; Books; Changes; Conversations; Derogatory; Evolution; Fear; Generations; Identity; In-fighting; Inclusive; Internet; Mindsets; Opinions; Past; Reclaiming; Resources; Slurs; Surgery; Terminology; Terms; Trans community; Transgender community; Violence; Visibility; Younger generations; Youth

Subjects: Gay community; Sexual minorities--Identity.; Sexual minority youth; Transgender identity; Transgender people--Identity.; Transgender people.; Transgender youth.

Partial Transcript: A couple of times you've remarked on--and this is my second to last question, just to give you the heads-up.

Segment Synopsis: Martin talks about how her use of the Internet has changed over time, in particular in regard to seeking knowledge about gender identity. She talks about how the Internet has changed the drag scene, particularly for young people who now have much greater access to knowledge about drag as well as the ability to shop online for items that were once hard to find.

Keywords: Accessibility; Black eyeshadow; Changes; Childhood; Clothes; Clothing; Drag mothers; Drag scene; Dresses; Dressing rooms; Generational differences; Generations; Importance; Information-seekers; Information-seeking; Internet; Librarians; Louisville (Ky.); Mentors; Reliance; Resources; Rites of passage; Searching; Shopping; Songs; Struggles; Tutorials; Wigs

Subjects: Drag shows; Female impersonators; Lexington (Ky.).; Sexual minorities--Identity.; Sexual minority youth; Transgender identity; Transgender people; Transgender people--Identity; Transgender people--Identity.; Transgender people.; Transgender youth.

Partial Transcript: Where do you--well, you've done drag--you do drag.

Segment Synopsis: Martin talks about whether she plans to continue participating in drag shows.

Keywords: Burned out; Burnt out; Drag brunches; Drag performers; Employment; Exhausting; Future; Introverted; Jobs; Performing; Plans; Working

Subjects: Drag shows; Female impersonators; Gay bars

Partial Transcript: I want to hear more about, um, your process or ritual.

Segment Synopsis: Martin describes the process of preparing for a drag show, from makeup to clothing to music. She talks about the types of crowds that she usually performs for at The Bar Complex.

Keywords: Apprehension; Audiences; Bars; Crowds; DJs; Drag performers; Drag queens; Drag scene; Early; Experimental; Looks; Makeup; Portfolios; Preparation; Processes; Rituals; Social media; Song selection; Songs

Subjects: Art; Drag shows; Female impersonators; Gay bars; Music; Popular music

Partial Transcript: How have the crowds, or the audience, how has the audience changed over the years?

Segment Synopsis: Martin describes how the types of crowds at gay bars have changed over time. She discusses how the greater acceptance of LGBTQ individuals in the wider community has led to a decrease in the need for gay bars as safe havens, leading to more straight women frequenting gay bars. She gives a closing statement about her life in Kentucky.

Keywords: Ages; Audiences; Changes; Choices; Crowds; Generational differences; Generations; Kentucky; LGBTQ community; Louisville (Ky.); Safe spaces; Straight women; Younger

Subjects: Art; Drag shows; Female impersonators; Gay bars; Gay community; Lexington (Ky.).; Music; Popular music; Sexual minority youth